/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>6119765
neither just don't draw

Who's methods are correct for the beg?

Han:
>You must use a felt-tip high flow pen, it is important you get punished for your mistakes

Eviston:
>Use a pencil, and don't worry too much about making mistakes. If you make a mistake, just keep redrawing the line until you get it right

Han:
>You must hold the pen directly up, it must be aligned vertically to the paper

Eviston:
>Use overhand grip

Han:
>You must draw swiftly, decisively and accurately. Do not attempt to feather.

Eviston:
>Take your time and draw very light lines, try to feel out the forms you're drawing.

>>6119765
Eviston is a pseud

>>6119782
i feel like one is just telling me what i want to hear instead of teaching me anything

>>6119765
meme answer aside
both use different techniques of teaching
Eviston use classic technique of sight size. which basically teach u to draw shape correctly and match the ref from the look of the course. I study size sight in a couple art class and I can eyeball shape fairly correctly.
Han teaching is about study form and 3d thinking/ perspective. Useful for imagination stuff as well as designing complex organic forms and hard surface stuff.
Honestly, Peter stuff has a steep learning curve since you have to juggle perspective/ form and shape in same time if you are new

>>6119765
Just by the artwork, you can tell Peter Han is a way more capable and talented artist. There is basically no comparin between them, Peter Han mogs Eviston into making him look /beg/ tier

>>6119765
Peter Han, no doubt. Dynamic Sketching (He didn't invent it, by the way). Its key if you have any interest in Design and actually being able to draw for imagination, even if you don't grasping geoforms and form is way cooler
You could basically draw your subject from a completely different angle, and that shows understanding beyond just being able to see whats infront of you

>>6119814
You've clearly never even so much as glanced at the Eviston book.

His figure drawings and especially his gestures are beautiful, I would say even better than Vilppu.

>>6119782
one is using a pen the other is using a pencil
you would use each tool differently

This is such /beg/ mentality to think that two highly recommended teachers conflict and you can't learn both in your MULTIPLE YEAR LONG journey to get good.

Eviston should be taken before Peter Han just because Dynamic Sketching is aimed at college students that had to apply with a portfolio while eviston is aimed at people who just picked up a pencil for the first time since childhood.

>>6119765
no rules

>>6119832
Except both of them are also claiming their method is what absolute beginners should be doing.

Should beginners start with a pen with an emphasis on clean lines? Or a pencil with a more liberal approach to drawing?

>>6119836
Wrong. Both courses are aimed at absolute beginners. Han says right at the start that Dynamic Sketching is an absolute foundational course for people who are starting from nothing.

>>6119825
I couldn't care less about the ''High Arts'' with the likes of Proko drawing aborted kangaroo fetuses as soon as they stop having a subject infront of their eyes

Drawing through understanding of patterns, geoforms and flow is as Soul as it gets

>>6119858
Nah, he is right. I tried to give my friend who is /beg/ Peter Han and he stopped drawing cause he didn't understand perspective enough to see any progress drawing geoforms, starting with basic shape seeing to build some eye to hand coordination is best

>>6119866
You're literally missing the point, stupid. What I'm saying is that Han himself says at the start of Dynamic Sketching that it's a very basic foundational course for beginners.

You can have your opinion on the target audience for this course, but at the end of the day, Han himself is explicitly aiming to teach the same beginner audience that Eviston is aiming to teach.

>>6119874
Fundies =/= for begginers
You can do his course if you draw for a week or if draw for 3 years pr even 5 and more
It's never late to do basic things

>>6119874
Then Peter Han is a filthy Korean Jew scamming you, simple as. It'd be stupid to suggest someone who can't even draw whatever they have infront of them without symbol drawing is going to do good trying to draw cubes from imagination (specially when Peter Han doesn't even teach you perspective in any significant way beyond some basic 1p and 2p thumbnail perspective exercises).

>>6119901
Yeah the original course was made in the context of a complete artcenter college of design syllabus where you would be learning perspective and figure drawing at the same time as dynamic sketching.
I don't care what peter han says, it's not a course for absolute beginners that haven't drawn in years/ever. Maybe if you are taking it with direct feedback he can tailor the course to you specifically or maybe he just tells you to repeat the course so he gets paid again, who knows.
But our context is a bunch of pirated videos with no feedback.

>>6119853
beginner is a pretty loaded term and you'll pretty much be a beginner for a long time. get it out of your head that you'll "level up" as an artist if you do x thing

both approaches are invaluable to learn
using a pen can teach you to be dedicated to the lines you make, usually instilling confidence since most beginners struggle with feathering their lines.

learning to draw with a pencil the right way teaches you to be delicate with your strokes since most beginners struggle with making soft lines

tl;dr do both

i found Peter Han kind of aimless.
>now draw some cubes
>heh, don't worry if it's hard
It feels like being taught by that anon who thought being a jerk to random posters make it valid for him to take credit for their progress

Brent Eviston, on the other hand, his stuff might be in the wrong order (I didn't see a point in learning line quality so early, so I skipped it and went back to it), but it's pretty close to what being tutored over webcam would be in terms of his explanations and the structure of the course.

>>6119866
kek, I quit a few times with Han, too. With Eviston, I drew some legit mice for the first time. Absolutely magical, compared to just doing reps of weird shapes without context and having chinese hype man in the background. And that's the thing, in Brent's videos, he fucks off after giving you something to do, and then he comes back. Han just jumps you up, and pretends you're doing something productive and it's your fault you're not getting anything out of it. Han's learning goals aren't developed at all, so it just feels like hoop jumping.
>maybe when he's done teaching me cubes, he'll teach me how to draw

It's all free, though, so nobody should be discouraged from trying them.

draw me an animal from imagination, peterhanfags.

>>6119957
Ok, here is this thing I did in 30 seconds

>>6119765
>So which one is actually teaching the correct way of learning to draw?
Krenz
https://youtu.be/kbKqIJcIUCw

>>6119814
This, the only thing that matters kek

>>6119765
At this point I just assume every white guy e-celeb is a grifter by default

I'm trying Peter Han's dynamic sketching right now.

He says its very important to hold the pen upright so that its pointing directly up from the paper, but I find it really uncomfortable to draw that way, especially with such a strong emphasis on repetition. My hands started hurting after 5 minutes. Is this really worth it?

I'm trying Peter Han's dynamic sketching right now.

He says its very important to hold the pen upright so that the top is pointing straight up from the paper, but I find it really uncomfortable to draw that way, especially with such a strong emphasis on repetition. My hands started hurting after 5 minutes. Is this really worth it?

>>6119765
Peter Hans shit looks so soulless

>>6120095
If you are using fineliners or technical pens you need to be writing vertically or the tip will get fucked.

If you use other writing instruments you can draw at an angle. Fountain pens are a good substitute for fineliners.

>>6119825
Evistons’ figures are uncanny and artificial

>>6120103
Han insists on high flow fineliners. I guess I'll just continue til my hands get too cramped.

>>6119791
I feel like both are doing it

>>6120095
for the upright pen thing try holding it like this - pen resting against the last joint of your thumb, between the first and second joint of your index finger and between the last joint and tip of your middle finger.

>>6119782
Han is probably right. Correctness is important for art. At the end of the day you're trying to accomplish a concrete task. Doing what you want to do concrete is important. Eviston might not say it, but he probably knows it as well, otherwise he wouldn't have achieved the level of quality he did. He just believes you learn correctness overtime, which can be a mistake the same way people believe music is just an expression, it's not really. There's an outcome everyone is seeking and doing it right the first time helps you remove errors from your workflow. It's exactly why japs are so good at drawing without constructing mannequins. They achieve a high degree of correctness

>>6120025
I don't speak ching chang chung

>>6119765
> eviston, multiple times in every video: 'there is no one right way to draw'
gee I dunno

>>6120247
Turn on subtitles

>>6119765
Peter Han is /ic/ tier and his art is souless.
Reminder to check their work before learning from anyone.

>>6120623
He has good art he's just wildly inconsistent.

>>6119765
The more construction I do the more soulless my art becomes, why?

>>6119782
This is not what Eviston says you dishonest cunt. He pretty much says the same thing but with pencil. You could argue beginners can cheat with pencil, but that's their own fault. And a pencil is better to start with in any case. Overhand is also a must for pencil.

>>6120640
Gotta balance it with gesture and looser drawing from intuition.
Often parts of your art get worse while you focus on learning new concepts before being able to integrate the new concept into more intuitive drawing.

>>6120631
anyone know what double marker that is in the picture

>>6120648
Unfortunately its some prototype version of a new brand so you can't just get see through markers.
https://www.olomarker.com/

>>6120233
Only the final line needs to be correct my dude.
The direct drawing, KJG-wannabe, approach is counterproductive.

>>6119765
you could literally learn from both and make gains from it or just watch them both and see who clicks with you more. There's no one teacher/style to rule them all in drawing.

>>6120025
Based Krenz chad

>>6120659
Shh don't tell them

>>6120640
your art probably looks like shit in both aspects
at least with construction, you can actually get better at it and translate to other skills
but scribbles you can't

>>6120936
Hardcore projection

>>6119853
I do the peter han shit of drawing over lines over and over again as a 'practice' with sharpening pencils in an overhand grip

I don't need a marker/pen to force me to see if I drew the same line multiple times, I fucking know when I did or didn't.

its a good exercise for warming up, but don't put to much emphasis in doing it as a real training exercise, always go a bit faster than you are comfortable with, if I draw slow I can easily go over the same line over and over again, but if I draw just a bit faster, its not as easy.

>>6119765
Neither

the correct answer is The Drawing Database on youtube

>>6121183
based. marc leone is better than all meme teachers of /ic/ imo

Anybody who wants to learn to draw better leave this thread. Blind leading the blind.

>>6120984
i've seen the people who say construction has made their art worse
it honestly looks the same as it did before but at least with construction they are taking a step to learn something new

>>6120025
Ty. Just what I needed. Downloaded and saved.

>>6120642
You are a literal idiot. That is exactly what he says.

>>6119765
DAB dabs on both.

>>6121349
t. idiot

>>6121488
>accidentally calls himself an idiot in just 6 letter
THE QUINTESSENTIAL DAB-HATER
GET DABBED ON NIGGAAA HAHAHAH

>>6121511
t. idiot

>>6121511
cringe

I think everybody is going to learn differently based on their own talents and abilities and there isn't a single teacher that is going to be the key to everything.

Neither of them teach anything contrary to each other, this thread is full of retards who have never watched either

On topic: Eviston as he is white and therefore has more soul than an asian

I'm convinced it's Eviston himself who keeps making these threads ands shoving him in every discusssion

>>6123121
I want to believe because it would make him based as fuck but he's a California liberal who wears a fucking beret and doesn't even use social media, he wouldn't go within ten miles of this site

>>6123121
I downloaded the mega in 2021 before all that retarded board war stuff happened with it and after going through tens of courses Brent Eviston is the first and only teacher I ever came across who actually knew what it was like to be a beginner and taught accordingly. Every, EVERY single other """""beginner""""" course was catered to the "hehe wellllll ive been doodling since i was 12 but now i wanna ACTUALLY learn to draw xddd" crowd who already had a solid grasp of the fundamentals. Eviston is the only person who actually remembered what it was like to be a complete and utter /beg/shit who can't even draw a circle or straight line properly and helped me get out of it. I will shill him forever because of that.

>>6119765
There is no correct way, it's two different methods and two different mindsets. Which one will appeal to you is totally dependent on your general composure and background.

I would wager westerners will appreciate the loosely guided Eviston more while Asians will enjoy the more repetitive nature of Han.

>>6120025
>1 hour 20 minutes in
>still haven't learned a thing that wasn't very obvious already
I mean, maybe for someone who is very green to drawing in general, doesn't know shapes or perspective etc but there's little actionable here. Seems like a waste of 3 hours.

>>6119791
>>6120114
yeah in a way getting punished and tough for yourself ALSO makes it feel like you're gonna learn more

just stick to what feels more useful, hell maybe you can end up using both methods or just taking what you want from them

>>6123134
Nigger how else do you expect teacher approach teaching
Like a 30 y.o. manchild how can't even draw a straight line is so fucking rare and most degenerates need one lesson on some basics to proceed further and its literally the reason why old ladies club on drawing some fuits from still life is a thing
I can't see how is loomis, hampton or peter han can be hard for begginers
They literally show what they are doing its not math when there are some complex abstract concepts envolved
Even stuff like perspective is just parallel lines converging into horizon

>>6123214
>I can't see how is loomis, hampton or peter han can be hard for begginers
Because you can't remember what it was like to be a beginner. Nor could they. You are only proving my point by sperging out

>>6123134
Hello Brent

>>6123219
I remember exactly how i grinded my first boxes and stuff
I still do not believe how can those book be hard to understand because i had no problem understanding them
Was i able to exactly copy their stuff? Obviously no, but to understand what they arw talking about? Easily

>>6123214
One problem I can remember when I started during covid was that I really didn't want to do any of the stuff that loomis, hampton or peter han had as their first lesson which made me want to skip ahead and as soon as you skip ahead you are fucked as a complete beginner.
I think the best courses anticipate this impatience and try to make sure the beginner is paced correctly.
Loomis tries to do this with Fun With A Pencil but those fucking potato heads drive off beginners.
Hampton makes the mistake of starting with gesture which is a huge beg trap where you try to spend weeks just drawing gesture without ever having drawn a single figure so it's completely pointless.
Peter Han starts off with fucking lines and ellipses which is another beg trap of hyper focussing on dexterity and perfection of something that you shouldn't focus on because it takes years to draw perfect circles and ellipses and freehand lines, you learn by just drawing normal shit rather than doing exercises.

I think these are all self learning specific issues though, if you were doing these courses in person or with feedback online you are less likely to fall into the traps because the instructor can recognise it and tell you want to focus on.

>>6123227
Imo it must be some advanced level retardation when people think these basic exersices like drawing geoforms from peter han or lines is what the should be doing instead of drawing
I saw them as warmups before actual drawing

>>6123226
>>6123227
>>6123234
can't tell if you're retards accidentally proving his point or if these posts are all just the evistonfag trying to false flag his own argument

>>6123246
Proving what exactly? That he is 60 iq nigger that have hard times grasping basic concepts or he is so stupid he can't understand forms or rotate things in his head like i heard from some niggers on this board.

>>6123234
They definitely are better thought of as warmups or something to spend a small amount of time on and then come back to later.
But with self learning I think people get overly ambitious and think they can learn new concepts through brute force grinding instead of thinking long term and pacing their study effectively to prevent burnout and thinking of learning as a cyclical iteration where you build on minor short term gains to lead to substantial long term gains.
When they can't even get good at the first chapter in a week or two they get demotivated and stop.
Again, a teacher would completely prevent this.

>>6123214
Draw a circle.

>>6122336
Heh a nice level headed response. That doesn't belong here. You need to leave.

>>6120025
>krentz
Reminder that zero (0) anons showed noticeable improvement during the 6 months shill campaign that took place from nov 2021 to april 2022, yet always got super ass hurt whenever someone would ask how they improved.

>>6123486
You didn't even draw for those 6 months.

>>6123214
usually its just technique and how to move their hand and arm properly
when it comes to perspective, some people just don't really "get" where they need to start

try reading something on a subject you have no prior experience with and see how far you get through it

>>6123486
The anons who improved left the board.

>>6123486
I improved.
I can copy faster and better now.

>>6119782
First point is Han, though you shouldn't care too much about making mistakes.
Second point is dumb on either side, but I'd rather draw exclusively in the way Han describes than Eviston.
Third point goes to Han as well, confidence is key when it comes to art, you can't chickenscratch your way to success. At the same time there are circumstances where you do need to work more carefully.

>>6123685
Nobody is recommending chicken scratching. Eviston just strongly advises you start off drawing very soft, light lines, instead of trying to draw correctly right away which is what Han says.

>>6119765
>correct way to draw
no such thing.

>>6123214
based

>>6120025
seriously considering learning mandarin instead of Japanese so I can gain access to these drawing resources.

>>6123795
Don't do it, you'll end up working with chinese people for the rest of your life. True hell.

>>6123800
yeah the language does grate on you after a while

>>6120100
Kinda agree. The forced perspective shtick he always does saves it for me in the appeal department though.

unironically if you can't pick anything just DAB bro, at least everything is laid out for and even the more technical stuff like anatomy is there for you to project yourself in the future
just fucking put the pen on paper already, do you think fuckers like KJG, Amano and other legends ever step a foot inside an online drawing course or autistic class before they started making money on their own?
if you've ever played an instrument you'd know this, nobody fucking teaches music by making you remember every chord and theory out there, just fucking play something simple that you like and put countless hours into it

>>6124010
>t. brainlet

>>6124010
musicians unironically remember every chord, key, and mode, especially if they improvise or want to compose

>>6119765

>>6124309
that's great and it goes the same for artists but that's not how most start at all, musicians start by playing really easy songs over and over again to level up their muscle memory while they study new shit over time, but that's not the focus because all the technicality KILLS your will to play
t. piano player since i was a kid, i'm forever grateful for my teacher she was chill and comfy as fuck

>>6124309
Mikael Åkerfeldt is the composer for Opeth a pretty good band, and he has no idea about music theory. He said he's doing it by trial and error. I remember him saying that he's fascinated by having his music analyzed by those who do know musical theory

>>6124313
This would be really funny if it could be edited to read "Dynamic Seething"

>>6124488

So which tutorial is the best for the absolute beginner?

Apparently Han and Fun with a Pencil are for people who are well past the absolute beginner stage.

>>6124507
nvm it wasn't that funny

>>6119765
Han's stuff is a little scary at first, and he expects you to understand the assignment, but all of it is sound.

I've been following along using just a ballpoint and scrap paper because he teaches you:

1 - You're going to make mistakes. That's fine, but do try it again from scratch.
2 - That doing the same basic thing over and over (and iterating) helps you to develop a line and shape library in your brain.
3 - To be precise
4 - To really think about the objects you draw, nonsensical organics they may be, and be able to understand them at any angle.

The exercises make for some great brain teasing.

>>6123227
>Loomis tries to do this with Fun With A Pencil but those fucking potato heads drive off beginners.
Underrated book. I love his shit but anybody starting out needs to work through this book, spud heads and all.

>>6125728
>Fun with a Pencil
Is absolutely where you should start, both absolute beginner and if you have dome experience.

One of the few books that has a decent progression.

>>6125863
No

>>6125851
>loomis
>underrated
Certainly not on this board, the only words more commonly used here are crab and talent.

>>6125863
>try drawing potato heads
>still can't draw the eyes symmetrically
need something easier

>>6125829
>To really think about the objects you draw
but this is literally the thing eviston emphasizes more than anything.

>>6125868
Nah, I meant that specific book. Loomis is god, and his other books get far more attention, even though they can start off in the deep end

>>6125878
Didn't say he didn't, but I'm working my way through Dynamic Seething presently.

>>6125871
Try tracing different angles until you start to get it. Then copy them. Then draw without reference.

And don't be put off, it's fucking tough to get symmetry first try. Loads of good artists make this mistake if you check their speed paintings, they just use the laso tool to reposition.

>>6125919
i thought tracing is meant to always be bad and avoided at all costs?

>>6126904
its taboo to trace and present it as your original work
its really just a learning tool

I see a lot of these artists use PS and I've only tried CSP so far, should I also dip my toes on PS and learn the software?

>>6127062
Fuck off idiot

>>6119765
middle one

>>6119765
wow this is a really hard choice, isn't it?

>>6127255
This is such hardcore bait that I can’t help to kek

>>6127255
can you not talk like a woman and state your opinion already?

>>6127255
Wait, so Eviston is for learning schizo art?

>>6127510
It's bait, you retard

>>6127507
>>6127510
>>6127522
>>6127528
kek, cope

>>6127522
Han's first week has you drawing precise simple shapes over and over. His second and third involve drawing canerous growths to figure out volume and contour.

Both teachers lead to madness.

>>6119765
>Peter Han
For someone that is so fixated in form and accuracy I'd imagine him doing more environments, his characters look okay but there's not much else to it.

is brent eviston's dynamic mark making week really that useful? i don't particularly care about drawing traditional art or emotional lines.

I'm just doing a bit of both at the same time. I start all my Eviston lessons with draftsmanship warm-up exercises, then I knock out one of those projects and if I struggle, I re-read the text. I also alternate with chapters in figure drawing for artists by Steve Huston. Alternating between those two keeps the lessons fresh, engaging and entertaining. On the side, I draw from reference and try to learn to copy stuff using construction. I think that's the best method to learn, or at least I haven't found a better one in the week or so I spent research what would be the best way to go about learning drawing (I started in early June).

>>6127765
Yeah, study and practice are two different things, and the way to go.

>>6127678
Doesn't he draw a lot from imagination? That would explain why some of his work looks underdeveloped.

From his lessons he's also keen to enforce focal points in an image to draw the eye.

so where do I find Peter Han's courses for free?

>>6119874
It's a standalone version of an art school class my dude. It's concentrated medicine that might be okay for the "i've been drawing since i was a little kid but have never `taken it seriously'" kind of beginner, but it's poison to people who are just starting out.

>>6128032
You've got half the google search in your message. It isn't hidden well.

>>6127630
kek, seethe

>>6125731
It is kinda funny

>>6129590
Underage idiot.

>>6123812
cantonese would be worse

>>6119782
>pen
>pencil
Both are shit. You should be doing your drawings in silverpoint like the old masters did.

>Eviston: No artist ever gets it right the first time. Even the masters drawings show evidence of mistakes from their initial sketching.

>Han: You must get it right the first time. If you screw up, keep practicing until you can get it right in one go.

Seriously, who is right and who is wrong? These are two contradicting philosophies.

>>6134218
>Eviston: FUCK

>Han: YOU

>>6134218
>Seriously, who is right and who is wrong?
Krenz

>>6134285
based sino-phile

>>6134218
Mistakes are part of the learning process. Doing it in one go is the result of all the cumulative mistakes you've made, but it's doesn't need to be a goal you absolutely have to abide by, it'll come naturally with experience.

>>6134218
Eviston is the one who's right here, in this situation. Peter Han is too obsessed with the Jung Gi Kim