/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

if this thread isn't popular i won't try to force it on you, but I really believe in the power of master copies. Here are some of my studies

Copied from Obata's Death Note

Each took me like 20 min

>>6084876
where do i find good artits tho
recomend me some

Super /beg/ here. I did this exercise out of a drawing book recently. It was a sketching exercise but I did some quick and dirty rendering for fun.

>>6084916
if youre suer beg, then im the lord of begs

>>6084876
did this one recently
the nose kicked my ass
>>6084913
what do you want to draw?

>>6084920
i really like this kind of style

>>6084919
Check out some atelier drawing courses. I did that next to a copy (picrel), sight size, and it took me like 3 hours over a few days with obsessive measuring and a lot of erasing. All I can see are scratchy, dirty lines and little mistakes.

>>6084922
idk about you but I follow like 500 artists on instagram and new ones are constantly being recommended to me. you just have to approach it like that

>>6084916
>>6084923
>>6084920
holy fuck these are really good

>>6084925
im using twitter, is instagram better?

>>6084923
dont have money for corses, did noticed that using those small squares was of any hel?

>>6084926
this one >>6084923 is the original, >>6084916 this is my copy

>>6084928
oh man, well your copy is really good too, i thought you did both

>>6084927
twitter is good too, maybe better, because you can save the images with right click

>>6084927
There's some free content on youtube, just search atelier drawing or bargue course.
The squares are on the original, I just used the center line and picked two horizontal lines as guidelines for the copy. But yeah they're helpful for orientation and measurement for sure.

>>6084922
fkey uses those hard edged strokes on his work but his girls lean more towards modern anime than the semi realism of the piece you posted
>>6084926
thanks man. working towards applying what I learned to my own art

>>6084939
i like that coloring, i like anime style too but i dont want to end up drawing only anime style
i like his work thogh, does he have twitter?

>>6084940
he does https://twitter.com/fkey123
I'm a big fan of how he renders clothes

Raphael study I posted in /beg/ a few days ago

>>6084970
origin
(reposting to bump and support this thread, it's a good idea)

>>6084973
thanks, i appreciate it <3

>>6084970
if i could offer a critique, it would be to watch your proportions. The Pelvis and legs are very small. It's also worth buying a kneaded eraser so you can lighten your lines and draw over your drawing, making it cleaner and cleaner

>>6084876
nice general, i tend to do alot of studies from photos along other things so i hope that is allowable, looking forward to studying with you guys. here's something from a few days ago

>>6084986
i also do brague plates as warm up occasionally though I've been slipping for a while lol

>>6084986
>>6084988
thanks for posting your art here! These are very nice

>>6085008
no problem I hope this general lives for along time

why this board get cursed again

I've been posting my daily bridgeys in /beg/ but I'll start posting them here

using modern approaches for old masters is fine if you do not wish to draw like the particular artists. but for those who wish to draw like an old master or a particuoar artist, the best i found is to deliberately copy the lines, of various stages of completion. particularly the quick sketches can show how they approached the figure that may not be visible in more complete drawings

>>6084876
>https://artsandculture.google.com/explore
This web is super useful if you combine it with Dezoomify, an add-on that downloads the high resolution images that these jews don't allow you to download.
Last day I downloaded a 200 MB painting and you can even see the brush strands in the canvas.
It works with other webs that display that kind of images.

Picrel is detail of starry night after downloading it with Dezoomify

bump, will be posting some stuff later

>master study general
>mostly anime studies
why does this general exist?

I don't been drawing legs so much

>>6085869
I do old master studies because I want to do similar works. It is not something I recommend for others if they want to do other types of art because they would get more out of copying towards what they want to specialize in, and for most hre that is anime.

>>6085250
>This web is super useful if you combine it with Dezoomify
i was hoping this was to purge the internet of zoomers

>>6085869
I'm all game for a bouguereau study but I don't think I can pull it off with my current skill level

>>6084913
Anything you like. Keep it simple at first.

>>6084923
Alright, now do it again, with sight-size/a grid or whatever, take as much time as you need, and try not to measure too much: eyeball as much as possible.

>>6084970
Slow down;draw bigger. Look at the confidence, regularity, swiftness of an experienced hand (Raphael's)

>>6086146
Try it. Do it black and white (pencil perhaps) and just focus on a detail, like an eye, a nose or a mouth. Do it as best as you can.

>>6086146
>but I don't think I can pull it off with my current skill level
Wrong mentality. You do it to improve your skill level to get to the point of bouguereau's skill level.
You don't start a master to do a master study, there's stuff to learn at any level.

wow i hate mac monterey. anyways, witch hat atelier is kicking my butt

Tried to do a hatching study from the dynamic sketching book, now hands are kinda hurting

George Kamitani study

>>6086104
Someday, if god wills it we will scourge tiktok and return to 00's net surfing

>master studies
>full of weeb shit

>>6084876
That's a good thread, anon

>>6086706
weebs are the only people who ever seem to be interesting in studying

>>6087243
Trads are more likely to do old master copies, and trad is more bothersome to take picture, color-correct, and upload.

>>6086192
>Slow down;draw bigger
but that took over two hours and was drawn onto a large piece of paper

This is my favorite thread. Please commit, I would like this to be a regular thing.

>>6085187
Bridgchads raise up

>>6086706
Yeah I opened this thread expecting actual "masters" not this weebshit

I'm completely in love with Lempicka but I'm still a beg studying gesture. Maybe someday I'll go to oil painting and try my hand at copying her immaculate style.

>>6087442
doing finished work will inform your gesture!

>>6087400
Anon, two hours is hurried. *Professional* artists like Stephen Bauman will spend like around 10h for a finished portrait. Also, your hatching is hurried, un-controlled. There's a visible difference between fast/swift and hurried.

Basically, you won't be able to get good at hatching if you never slow down greatly. Speed will come naturally, but you have to be mindful and careful. You *will* make many mistakes.

>>6087499
>Anon, two hours is hurried. *Professional* artists like Stephen Bauman will spend like around 10h for a finished portrait
but the drawing i was referencing was a quick sketch

lazy day

im already feeling massive improvement

>>6086587
very beautiful

>>6086311
watercolors look really hard to replicate with digital

>>6087533
Well, it's a quick sketch, by an experienced hand. If you want to reach a similar quality, you need to process it slower. It's not just about reaching a similar quality, but about taking the time to assimilate and learn.

Don't get me wrong: developing quick sketch ability is great, but going slow and being cautious is where you learn the most as a beginner, because it will give you space to develop your eyes, your muscles, your hand-eye coordination, among others.

This is in Russian, but you might find it of value nevertheless:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXTE-63hjPk

more bridgies

>>6088887

digital steve huston study

i love old engravings

I got some questions bros

1- should I be approaching master studies like a figure drawing? (gesture construction forms) or like drawing from observation where you try to trace the object as accurately as possible?

2- what is the point of doing master studies over drawing from real models?

pic related are some Bridgmen I've done

>>6089447
Question 1: you should always start with gesture and form when doing master copies. Never forget the fundamentals. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be accurate. You need to learn to think both 3 dimensionally and 2 dimensionally when drawing. For example, your Bridgman studies aren't as accurate as they could be. Slow down and draw in layers, using a kneaded eraser to lighten the "opacity" of your sketch.

Question 2: Master studies have all the answers for you already. It's much easier and clearer than drawing from life or photos. This means that master copies are a much better training tool for learning the fundamentals. The only reason you'd want to draw from life is to imbue your drawings with a sense of naturalism. If you never draw from life your risk having your figures looking like Hogarth figures, plastic and artificial. David Finch, for example, said he never attended life drawing class, practicing figures only by copying comics, but if you ask me, his figures are a bit artificial.

>>6089447
>1- should I be approaching master studies like a figure drawing?
Yes
>or like drawing from observation where you try to trace the object as accurately as possible?
You want to actually "trace" over their drawings to feel the form. Try to understand the rhythm of the lines and the forms, pay attention to what's detailed, and more importantly, try to figure out what they left away.

>2- what is the point of doing master studies over drawing from real models?
When you do master studies you're seeing the concentrated result of years of experience. Drawing from a real model can make you get lost on useless details and wouldn't teach you shape appeal.

Your Bridgman's are decent but they lake dynamism. Try to follow Bridgman's line, they always flow into each other which makes them really appealing. Good luck.

>>6084876
idk does this count?

>>6089447
To build up on previous answers:

>1- should I be approaching master studies like a figure drawing? (gesture construction forms) or like drawing from observation where you try to trace the object as accurately as possible?
Both are alright. Depends on the technique you seek to train.

>2- what is the point of doing master studies over drawing from real models?
Artists interpret reality; just look at >>6089315, >>6084973, >>6084988, >>6084876 reality never look like that, and all of those are rather different from each others. Doing master studies is about studying the technique, the choices made by the artists, etc.

>>6089622
sure!

I've been living in a daze for the past few days... barely drawing an hour a day. I'll do my best to post more in the coming days

>>6092172
What master did you copied? Looks pretty good

>>6092283
thanks, I drew that from imagination, but I was inspired by Bridgman's designs

Bridgies

>>6093010
Who’s gonna make it??

>>6093023
WE WILL WE WILL!!! :^)))

bump

>>6086192
>>6086205
okay, I'll bite
been pretty busy lately due to college stuff so all I can do is bump with my work in progress

do film studies count if the blocking is masterful?
if so, i've been doing pic rel

tonight's bridgies

>>6096345
of course. Cinematographers are artists in their own right

>>6096285
beautiful. now try a painted study?

>>6096947
very nice, but there's no harm in copying the same drawing a couple times. The one on the bottom left is a bit out of proportion

>>6096947
oh wait, i just looked at my bridgman book, and his figure is a bit chonky

>>6096958
>>6096959
Yeah, while I was drawing it I was noticing that it was a bit weird

>>6096947
one more caution is to get the midline of the torso correct. In the Bridgman book, for your top-right figure, the mid-line should be more towards the right. I know this is a bit anal, but getting the orientation of the parts right is really important to getting good posing and life in your figures

>>6096960
im glad you're trying to draw as accurately as possible

>>6096974
>>6096975
I see what you're talking about, thanks, I'll double check that with a plumb line next time

Frederick judd waugh

>>6096987
Gorgeous

Sargent

Sorolla

>>6096958
>painted study?
definetely. I'll try to get something going tomorrow

>>6097009
You have great taste, i love this painting! Tho i think big part of the appeal of original is how saturated and deep blue the sky is.

>>6087888
Cute boy

>>6096989
this is amazing. Please post the finished version when it's done. Post in in /trad/ as well when we get a thread up.

>>6096988
>>6097172
>>6097294
Thank you, will do :)

>>6092313
Great work

>>6096987
>Frederick judd waugh
Did you use a digital pic as a reference? I can't find a decent version of the original, could you post it if you have it?

>>6097589
yes bro, i used this one

>>6097009
Took an actual photo

i feel so inadequate compared to Shirahama-san

>>6096987
>>6096989
>>6097009
beautiful

>>6097192
thanks <3

Tried to check plumb lines more this time

>>6098419
these look great, i think you're really improving

がリィ!

>>6098419
nice job, anon. I love your mark making

is copying artwork really more efficient than isolated studies?

>>6099344
yes, all the master painters of old did this. Notably rembrandt had copies of drawings, paintings and objects his students would copy from. Cennino Cenninni in his "craftman's handbook" said:

> "You should adopt this method. ... take pains >and pleasure in constantly copying the best
>things which you can find done by the hand of >great masters. ... if you follow the course of >one man through constant practise, your >intelligence would have to be crude indeed for >you not to get nourishment from it. then you >will find, if nature has granted you any >imagination at all, that you will eventually >acquire a style individual to yourself, and it >cannot help being good; because your hand >and your mind, being always accustomed to >gather flowers, would ill know how to pluck >thorns."

The book was written between the 14th and 15th century. This has been the standard way of teaching people how to paint well. idk how to greentext

>>6099368
i fucked the formatting

>>6099344
Depends on what you mean by isolated studies: ancient "drawing courses" often starts with isolated facial features (to be copied).

Isolated studies, like color/composition studies are good exercices too, but they are a bit better when you know what you're looking for. When you start, it's good to have things that are simple so as not to overwhelm you, yet complete enough so that you can learn from them.

Things like Bargue plates are well conceived in that regard; it's a bit unfortunate that the second part contains mostly low-resolution images (but well, we have the Internet)

>>6099368
interesting, I enjoy drawing from direct reference much more than filling 20 pages with loomis heads or gesture lines or whatever but I always worry I'm wasting my time whenever I do

>>6099344
like the other anon said, you can isolate one part of a master artwork to study, to plug up your weaknesses

>>6099380
>I always worry I'm wasting my time whenever I do
Because you aren't and have no one (no teacher) to evaluate your progress. That's one reason doing master copies is good: you should be able to tell if your copy is accurate or not (you can always use tracing paper and things like that if really you're eyes aren't developed)

>>6099380
The most efficient you will be is with a teacher. The reason is that the teacher has already developed their eyes to recognize angles and proportion. When you do this on your own you will have a potentially harder time seeing if your lines and values are correct. It all depends on what you're planning to do with it though. If you plan to do more simple work then you can use more liberty in opposition to intricate detail and correctness.
It's like in the FZD thread where you don't need everything to be as perfect when you're an artist vs an architect or something. I do think it's useful to combine the copying with learning construction. It's currently how I work

>>6099371
you plucked thorns, anon

>>6099344
I've been very happy with my improvement in a year of doing them. Even mainly doing landscapes my portraits have also gotten better. It bleeds into everything.

>>6099599
my intelligence is crude indeed

Bouguereau study i never finished. It was fun still. Maybe learnt some things about flesh tone.

>>6099648
wow, very nice. i have no words

>>6099648
Ok I don't wanna be that guy, but I'm gonna need to know how do I draw like you. What was the most helpful step on your learning journey so far? Was there a moment where it 'clicked'?

>>6099648
digital right?

>>6099671
Yes.
>>6099667
I don't really know if this is good advice, but don't be afraid to spend a lot of time on a single piece, especially if you are relatively a begginer. When i recall my early 'studies' that took 2-5 hours i wonder what was i hoping to learn in that timeframe. Another thing is to always look at great artists (modern, old, digital or traditional, as long as they're good) and really try to analyse their work, then apply at least some of that to your own. I would say that it's not even so important to actually paint after them if you spend a lot of time looking at their work and thinking about it. And, obviously, there's no such thing as too much fundies (i definetly should've spent more time on drawing and proportions in this one).
>>6099658
Thank you.

>>6099718
>but don't be afraid to spend a lot of time on a single piece, especially if you are relatively a begginer. When i recall my early 'studies' that took 2-5 hours i wonder what was i hoping to learn in that timeframe.
This can't be overstated. I can still spend at least 3h to block a figure when I try to get an accurate master copy, even after years of practice.

That doesn't mean practicing to go faster is bad, but speed comes best with experience, because you know what to leave out, know what your material can naturally do for you, etc.

this took me an hour to draw

>>6098374
>>6098680
>>6100237
I love these bro

>>6100361
thank you <3 im feeling improvement from doing these too

>>6098432
Thanks, they're definitely better than when I started a couple weeks ago. I can feel my brain gaining wrinkles as I do them, and actually feel somewhat physically drained after I finish a particularly tough one.
>>6099337
Wow, thanks, I'm pretty unhappy with my markmaking so that's great to hear

Here are tonight's, had some successes and some challenges. At least I got to draw a pretty girl! Been thinking of getting a small pair of calipers and roughing in freehand before double checking proportions until I train my eye. If I feel like it's too cheaty and I'm not learning anything I can always just stop using them. It feels like I get really messed up when copying the chest/ribcage, so I need to experiment and find a better approach.

>>6100442
i look forward to seeing you post every night desu. Are you roughing it in with light pencil marks at first? That's what I do, I go in with pencil and draw with successive layers, lightening my sketch with a kneaded eraser. The hour-long drawing i posted i drew in i think 4-5 layers, cause I had a lot of stuff to correct

>>6100442
i can actually see your light pencil marks, now that im looking closer. but still, a kneaded eraser helps if you aren't already using one, so you can lighten the pencil really easily. sorry if you know this stuff already

>>6100471
>>6100474
Actually, it's all done with an 08 micron, but thanks!

>>6100538
I use 01, is there a benefit to 08? or is it just preference

>>6100543
I hold my pen like a fucking caveman and always end up pressing the goddamn tip inside the pen

>>6100546
as expected of a bridgechad very based

been looking to this guy for his shapes recently

i think im done bros

>>6100683
Good job anon

why do weebs feel the need to shit every single thread up with their lifeless trash

>>6100683

What medium?

>>6100710
Schizo westard?

>>6100731
Oil

>>6084876
Any place I could download terabytes of old classy art to learn from?
Something with collections, where I can download everything made by one artist in a single file.

>>6100442
You're using Bridgman, yes? I have been spending time copying from Bammes's Sehen und Verstehen but my figures tend to look a bit stiff

>>6100683
she should have that lazy eye fixed

>>6100683
can you post the palette you used to get these tones? How did you mix your skin tones? Thanks bro, your stuff is amazing. Keep it up!

>>6101128
thank you! palette is titanium white, cad yellow, yellow ochre, cad red, alizarine crimson, cerulean blue, ultramarine blue and ivory black. basically warm and cold primaries and black and white.
for the skin tones its just warm reds and yellows in the light and colder ones in the shadow.
ones that were very interesting in this one to me were the greens surrounding the lips making them stand out more and the saturated reds in the shadows of the nose and left eye.

>>6100873
Yep, these are from Bridgman's complete guide to drawing from life

>>6100798
Don't, this is a procrastination attempt. Grab a few Bargue plates as introduction material, continue with various drawing and paintings from google art project, and you'll got more than you'll need

>>6101510
>Bargue

Took a look, it does seem to cover what I need (muscles, joints, bones), thank you.

>>6101527
But, why would you need "classy art" for that?
Just get a common anatomy resource, like Anatomy for Sculptors or Hogarth. Bargue is for observation training

>>6101527
yeah, i can really recommend Morpho for anatomy, if you want that. It'll help you draw figures from imagination too. Start with the simplified forms and copy through it 3x, since its a short book and you should be reviewing anatomy a lot anyways

>>6101534
I tried that but something doesn't click, seeing how another artist did it seems easier to me. Maybe it's because I've not tried plain anatomy enough tho.

>>6101538
I'll try.

>>6101556
Maybe you need stuff that translates better into finished pieces? Bridgman is good for that, morpho too. Dunno what else

>>6101527
Yeah as the others anons said, while you can use master work for studying anatomy, maybe you're looking for something specifically tailored for anatomy instead.

Yet, FWIW, an "academy" ("académie" in French) is a typical old-school dawing/painting exercise, involving depicting a male (99% of the time) figure from life, often with a strong emphasis on anatomy.

Googling "male academy drawing" should get you started on finding some good material sources. There a literally hundreds out there

>>6101664
>male academy drawing

Honestly that's perfect.

>>6089492
>If you never draw from life your risk having your figures looking like Hogarth figures, plastic and artificial
You're a dumbfuck, Hogarth's actual art doesn't look anything like his bloated figures.
It's almost like he made them this way for a reason, maybe to show the anatomy in an exaggerated way.

>>6101723
yeah i regretted saying that right after I posted it. I personally like hogarth's art a lot. i guess i was just making an unnecessary concession to life drawing

Copied from Gustave Courtois' "Dante and Virgil in hell".
I have a lot of difficult painting faces for some reason but focusing on the back of the head was way more comfortable for me. Does this happen to anyone else?
Also do you guys have any suggestions of some easy paintings to copy? Like the sticky says to copy that one drawing by Picasso, is there like some equivalent for beginners looking to learn how to paint?

>>6101756
this looks really good. im not a painter, but I think you should be free to copy whoever you want to copy, no matter how difficult. however, I think renaissance artists might be a good start because of how simplified they treat the human body, michelangelo especially. They don't use weird colors or atmospheric affects and stuff, just pure sculptural painting

>>6100710
everyone else acts like they're too good to participate in the community so all you get is /asg/ lite

>>6101756
For monochromes, Bargue's plates. For colored work, you can try individual facial features of famous paintings, or limit yourself to half a limb, etc.

>focusing on the back of the head was way more comfortable for me
Happens to me when drawing from imagination. I've observed a lot of artists to like "on top of the shoulder" view when drawing from imagination.

>>6101675
You're most welcome. There's a book edited by the Russian academy collecting a few academies in high-res. There's an online version, but quality isn't as great as the printed version.

Pretty pleased with middle-top guy

>>6101799
>There's a book edited by the Russian academy collecting a few academies in high-res
would you mind posting more info about this? I'd be interested in buying this book. Thanks!

>>6101309
>the greens surrounding the lips making them stand out more
I read somewhere people recommending to do a green underpainting for portraits, so that the reds and skin tones pop out more afterwards. Might try it out.

>>6102558
not sure about the underpainting since when you go over the green with reds they will be neutralized a bit. but green backgrounds are very common

>>6102613
also for the same reason when you see a portrait with a red background the skin tones look rather dead and sickly

>>6102551
https://www.amazon.com/Drawing-Samples-Copying-Obraztsy-Kopirovaniya/dp/5904957041/

There are others similar titles published by Chinese academies, you should be able to find them

Also, same Russian author have a small anatomy book https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/5903733433/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i6

You should be able to find them on libgen, zlib & al if you want to peek before buy

don't talk to me or my son ever again

>>6104001
頑張って!

>>6104807
Arigatou

Had to redraw the guy on the bottom but glad I did. Almost got lazy but forced myself not to be.

>>6105218
すごいですよ!The redraw looks a lot better

>>6105749
Thank you, I just have to not be fuckin lazy, have to remind myself that if I'm not actually putting effort in while I'm doing these I'm just going to waste lots of time. It's tempting to just do them mindlessly instead of focusing.

>>6084876
My unfinished Velazquez study, i should probably get back to it.

>>6106398
That is so good, what are your brush settings?

Henri Privat-Livemont study, been choosing studies to help learn what details to include/exclude and I figured art nouveau was a good place to go since I feel like it's a nice blend of realism/stylization. haven't really explored color too much yet but went for it this time and it turned out decent I think but there's definitely room for improvement

>>6106589
Change her eyes

>>6106589

Good work anon. I particularly liked the form of your study.

I feel that the thickness of the lines and the lack of halftones give the study a flat look. Otherwise I like it.

>>6106595
yeah the eyes are too dark and makes it look like she's wearing mascara

>>6106599
thanks lad, yeah I'm still working on my lineart abilities, i definitely over did the thickness here. also, I only decided to color it last minute so I didn't properly mark down the values beforehand which probably would've helped a lot with halftones and soft/hard edges

>>6084888
>>6084889
>>6084890
>>6084891
>master studies thread
>posts manga stuff
okay

>>6106700
if you don't think Obata's a master, Why Bailey Jaxxon Failed, then you need to go learn something about drawing!

>>6106589
Your right arm is to thin. Watch the angle right after the elbow going towards the shoulder, shouldn't be that abrupt. But really good stuff! Do some Mucha, I love his stuff.

the eye placement is slightly wrong, and her right hand could be better, but overall I feel that i learned a lot

>>6106398
amazing

>>6106925
what manga youre copying? hat atelier?

>>6107113
yup, witch hat atelier. Love her art so much

>>6084876
Waterhouse

Had to rush these unfortunately

>>6106925

Is it just me or does her hair look off center. The widows peak doesn’t point to the midline of the face.

>>6084876

>>6108024
amazing.

>>6107654
you're right, i screwed up the placement of things

>>6108024
incredible

>>6108024
Based

>>6108024
ionic?

bada-bump

Where your studies at bros

>>6109304
very nice. i wish i could crit, but i don't paint

Think I'm starting to get the hang of these a bit

feel like I leveled up a bit from working on this, probably as far as I'm gonna take it though

Might not look like much but with that I'm done with the first major section of the Bridgman book. Skipping heads per Finch (I have Loomis for that later) and tackling the neck next.

>>6092172
What pencil is that looks strange..
Am I the only one who sketches with a 2€ mechanical one?

>>6110858
That’s a blackwing pencil

>>6110769
Congrats

>>6087852
Holy shit dude
Nice hair

>>6110911
you copied my drawing? im so flattered

>>6110916
Hehe no worries
Keep drawing crazy looking hair fren <3

>>6109520
wonky face but great values. nice work

Hard mode starts today ig
Pray for mojo

>>6112542
believe me, the second pass is 5x harder. please don't give up when you get to that point

>>6112548
I wouldn't go that far just to quit, don't worry. How do you feel about the Bridgman crucible? Got a before and after of your work?

>>6112542
>>6112548
How long do you guys usually spend on each figure? One of the smaller figures from here >>6110769, for example

>>6112596
i don't know how to evaluate my progress, but i definitely think i improved a lot. Here were some figures i did from before Bridgman. (I'm the one who's posting manga studies in this thread btw). Looking at my old work I can tell my lines were really wonky

>>6112596
Here's a panel i drew yesterday. Witch Hat studies are definitely paying off in my inking

>>6112607
I think you should be spending 15-20 minutes on each figure, and re-drawing it if you think you can do better. I highly recommend drawing in multiple layers, until you end up with a very clean final drawing. On the body parts, it may not take 15 minutes, but don't rush the drawings

my animal skills are really bad btw i know that rabbit looks like shit

kjg study

>>6112607
I don't know about per figure but each page takes me anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour, maybe an hour fifteen, depending on how challenging it is and if I have to re-draw anything

>>6112697
Sketchbook page, that is.

>>6112609
Lol I love that penis

Been studying Burne Hogarth's anatomy books and I can confidently say that I already see the difference in my art. When you get your shit together and START drawing the progress is there. :)

i can't over how fun this is

>>6113821
>>6113824
that's a great feeling, isn't' it? good work

>>6114379
this is very good

I've started Figure Drawing for Artists by Steve Huston as a first book and he mentions masters' studies quite a bit but there aren't exercises to my taste. Can you recommend a few good pieces/artists where I could practice understanding the structure and gesture underneath the drawing?

>>6115363
I've seen Craig Mullins recommend Italian Renaissance masters like Michelangelo and Raphael because they approached form in a very simple and direct way: everything is convex and simple balls. People in the animation industry will recommend copying people like Heinrich Kley, Francois Boucher, and Daumier. David Finch recommends getting comic books and copying them.

So... there's no right answer, but I think any artist who draws a lot of figures from imagination is a good choice. John Singer Sargent may not be right for learning gestural imaginative figure drawing, but he's great for portraits.

>>6115384
Thanks anon, I appreciate the long answer. Huston used mostly works from Boucher and they're gorgeous. I'll take a look at the other artists you mentioned.

>>6115363
If it's just to identify main masses/main gesture lines, just pick anything that depicts the (naked or almost) figure.

There are a few drawings (master drawings) all along Steve Huston's books that you can exploit for that purposes

>>6115415
Yes I'm already doing that but I'd like to expand my horizons a bit. I also think I'd like to do even more because I heard understanding this is fundamental to drawing well so I want a decent amount of experience doing it before I go and learn anatomy (say).

Kirk Shinmoto (instructor at Art Center) posted another Master studies tutorial. Might be worth a watch

https://youtu.be/cF2UtfFT7y8

>>6115363
Bridgman

Top right was my most successful attempt at an accurate copy yet, at least in terms of process, so there's that if nothing else, but I fear I'm not really absorbing the anatomy knowledge so far. Morpho and Hampton seemed to click better.

>>6115816
Ah fuck oh well

>>6115816
>I fear I'm not really absorbing the anatomy knowledge so far
did you memorize muscle placements like David Finch said to do?

Are there any benefits or point to doing master studies?

>>6115825
Yes, did that with Hampton and Morpho. But the way Bridgman does it I just feel like I'll have difficulty reproducing it from memory or imagination. Can't really explain it my bad

>>6115826
watch the links in the op!

>>6115829
Maybe you should take a break and memorize the flat diagrams for a couple days, if you haven't done so. You need to know the origins and insertions of each muscle and you need to be able to draw it from memory. Bridgman groups muscles together so you won't get that info from him, and as far as I can remember morpho and hampton don't have all the muscles laid out, they're more about 3d shape of each bodypart.

The point of copying Bridgman was to get you to draw the anatomy with 3d integrity, not for anatomy. I took a class with Vilppu last year and he had a story about how a student at a college was graduating soon and that he felt like he wasn't good enough to get an industry job yet so he privately went to Vilppu for tutoring. To help him catch up, Vilppu had him do dexterity exercises (like drawing circles) but to also copy through the Bridgman book, for Bridgman's ability to describe form. The student improved rapidly in the 3 months he had left and ended up getting an animation job.

If what you meant was that you felt like you weren't remembering the form properly, don't worry, it's the concentration and effort you put into copying it that counts. You're trying to get your forms to be solid and clear to the viewer here, you're not memorizing anatomy at this point. But this only works if you already can reproduce anatomy diagrams from your memory.

>>6115846
I see what you mean, and I can now put my finger on the problem: morpho and hampton only (well, mostly) go over surface muscles, so things like the scapular levitae were new to me. You're 100% right though, I will do some flat diagrams as warm up.

>>6115829
the most important thing for anatomy and drawing from imagination is memorizing the insertion and origin points of the muscle. The action is the origins pulling the insertion points toward the origins. when you know this you will know what a given muscle looks like while flexing and where they sit in terms of perspective. example: the deltoid origin points are along the collarbone and the spine of the scapula, the insertion is on the side of the arm, whenever the arm moves you will always know where the muscle comes from and where it inserts so you should know how to draw it. make sense?

three /beg/ studies i did of vrubel, pontormo and ensor to study general measuring and rendering techniques
tons of mistakes with the measuring and it's still impossible for me to do quick casual hatching while im still struggling with everything else but it was fun

>>6114062
Thanks fren :) Yours are great too. Really clean and smooth lines, keep it up!

>>6110858
nah, I have few expensive pens and pencils but I always resot back to my shitty ass mechanical pencil that came free with a sketchbook

>>6116656
mogs most of /beg/ desu, the masterstudiespill is really the most powerful way to improve

Pretty proud of these two

>>6117396
glad you're drawing so consistently. i took the liberty of drawing over your work, if you don't mind. The main problem with both is the feeling of "gesture" or "posing". Even in the neck, there is a feeling of life in Bridgman's work that was stiffened up in your studies. Look at the arrows i drew, I'm trying to point out how you could push the posing to feel more like Bridgman's. Think of this as another way of looking at "alignment", like the plumb lines you were using. You don't actually need to draw a separate "gesture" stage, but the gesture should still be in your drawings.

skull-kun here
instead of buying a plastic model i found some very nice 3d models online and i can just rotate them freely to learn about the skull
that being said ...i have no idea what or how to "learn" to draw features without a proper guideline lol, i'm just going by intuition

>>6117514
it can be very difficult, but just try to go at it. You can use the Loomis method on the skull, but don't be too stiff with it, feeling free to be loose and forgetting about the proportions and exact guidelines.

You might want to draw the front view several times, then the side view a bunch of times, then the back view, etc. Then the 3/4 angle, and slowly work your way around to draw every angle. It does take several hundred drawings, which amounts to several months of work.

Here's the video I first watched when I first started drawing: https://youtu.be/EDG9TUHD1Cw

He goes in without construction, but I think it's a good idea for you to block in basic forms first, then work on it in layers.

>>6117514
for the features, that's quite difficult too, and I recommend you learn that by doing master copies of artists you admire

>>6117418
Thanks, no I don't mind at all, I will try to be more aware of not killing the liveliness while maintaining accuracy

>>6117523
thanks a lot for the video! he blazed through his teaching but slowing it down i could replicate the first thing he tried with my anime flair
>He goes in without construction, but I think it's a good idea for you to block in basic forms first, then work on it in layers.
i don't know what this means sorry xD
>>6117527
i think eventually i'll do that, but since my favorite artists are all mangaka or veteran animators their features are all over the place since each one has their style for everything

>>6117566
woops forgot nose and ear, my bad

>>6117566
>i don't know what this means sorry xD
something like pic related

Your drawing is quite nice, did you draw over the skull? If you did, why not try drawing the skull itself? Also, since you seem really new to drawing, it might be worth reading this article: https://davidfinchart.com/where-to-start-and-where-to-go-from-there-a-roadmap-to-professional-quality-art/

It's an all in one guide to learning to draw, from beginning to advanced, with all the necessary books and articles that you need to learn to draw anything, in any style. I wish I had something like this when I first started. It might be better than reading my unorganized ramblings. I also linked David Finch's streams in the op where he demonstrates and explains his process of studying, his channel is a goldmine for info on drawing

>>6117547
<3

>>6117600
I did I just hid the layer to post the head here lol
>Also, since you seem really new to drawing, it might be worth reading this article
thanks a lot! i'll check it out tomorrow
i'm liking this whole skull thing anyway, i can get very creative with the faces while i learn the skull and angles from sheer repetition imo

>>6117610
very nice. I'm glad you like it. Drawing with form and anatomy is the most freeing and creative way to draw

Tried to be more gestural

>>6118256
good job! lines look better too

>>6118256
a tip I got from my teachers is to think of the maximum you're able to push something and go a little beyond that. Things like contrast and gesture are especially important.

>>6118288
Thanks!
>>6118456
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind when doing photo studies especially

I was a full time furry artist for many years, i recently realise it was because people would give me attention for it.
I been experimenting with my art and i have decide that i will start doing studies on Francisco de Goya, the move to other morbid artists.

I don't want attention anymore, i want my art to look like the fucking devil did it.

>>6110769
What does "per Finch" mean? Do people recommend skipping the head part?

>>6118832
very first, i cannot process how the hell he shaded the hair and the hat, i might experiment with a different brush next time.

>>6118832
>i want my art to look like the fucking devil did it.
In that case you should stick with the furry art lmao

>>6118858
It looks like an etching (is it? Could you share a bigger picture of the original perhaps?), often the lines are placed very carefully and precise.
Try to slow down a bit, your hatching and shading appears a bit messy.
Also, you skipped the background, the dark areas in the background, especially around the face is what makes it "pop" more.

>>6118832
>>6119063
Even better yet do your morbid studies then incorporate it into your furry art, it will be absolute nightmare fuel

studies of statues/busts count right? regardless here's my WIP of a Caligula bust, still have the hair to work on mostly. I went for the actual colors in the ref vs just using greyscale, I like the results of it and it's helping me get over my insecurity of using color

>>6120221
your face is coming out smaller. Your chin is a tad higher up than your reference's chin, and your ear is looking really flat for some reason. But good job otherwise!

>>6120221
Don't skip the background, anon.

>>6119319
thanks, i'll keep it in mind next time

>>6117613
Hi Anon
I'm having a bit of trouble following "Drawing the Marvel Way" because the basics are only covered on a surface level and I think I need more practice to tackle figure drawing and perspective studies, etc
Do you know any other course/class I could follow to start my journey? There's so much stuff to chose in /ic/ lol, and there's always threads like this one up: >>6119765

at what skill level should i try tackling master studies?

>>6120917
every skill level. /beg/ should be copying from /int/ and /int/ should be copying from /pro/

>>6120847
I know it seems like the basics are very surface level, but that's really all there is to it. Drawing is 3d form, and that's it. Draw the proportion chart, and start doing gesture drawing with the basic shapes of the body. After a week of full-time gesture drawing, move onto studying the origins, insertions, and shapes of muscles. After that, start your Bridgman journey. You can use quickposes.com for your gesture drawing at first.

Most drawing teachers teach the same things. Brent Eviston and Peter Han literally teach the same things, which is 3d form, they just have very surface level differences, like drawing with pen vs pencil, or choosing different subjects to draw like still lives, or airplanes. Vilppu, Loomis, Buscema, Bridgman, they all give you strategies to learn to depict 3d form. It's form that's the key. I think it's important to read and learn as much as you can, but keep your practice very conservative. Stick to the plan that David Finch wrote, at least when you're beginning. It's based off the chapter-order in the Loomis figure drawing book, and I think it's a very nice way to tackle the fundamentals.

Everything is very very hard in the beginning, and you won't have enough faith in any one resource when you're first starting out, that's just natural. I have a whole bookshelf in my room with books I never bother reading anymore, simply because I realized I only needed a few good books (Vilppu drawing manual, Loomis, Bridgman, a few anatomy books, etc.) All the other books are just rehashing the same information) Now the books I buy are art books (like manga) which I make copies out of.

There's a japanese proverb, where it says to just find one killer technique, and to use that technique for everything. In drawing, that technique is form, and it takes a long time to learn to use it, and it can only be learned through practice, not words on a page or from a teacher's mouth.

>>6084913
Pick the nearest major city and go to the museum.

>>6120847
sorry if all that fucking confused you. You can just stick Glenn Vilppu. I learned 99.999% of everything I know from him.

>>6121077
When I reached Manga/Comic Artist, I burst out laughing. It's the #1 field of work for artists, but also the most looked down upon by art schools. If you have comic art in your portfolio a lot of schools will straight up not even let you in.

Have you read the Berserk manga? It looks like an amateur sketchbook. Have you been to a comic book shop recently and seen what's displayed on the current issues shelf? Most of them look like they were drawn by 14-year-olds with no talent. Storyboard's are even worse. And my friend who's an art school graduate can't draw as well as me, and I'm entirely self-taught. He worked at a theme park drawing portraits for money, and they sucked ass yet he got paid like a regular job. This graph is kinda a joke. Am I just autistic?

>>6121122
What's your point? That comics take no skill? Or artists today just suck?

>>6121132
My point is that the graph is way off. And someone else said it well enough in another thread earlier today. Random graphs off the internet don't mean shit.

Basically yeah, my point is comics don't require skill. At least not in terms of necessarily making them, or getting a job in that field. Of course anything requires skill to do it well, but you don't have to do it well to get a job. Just look how prolific Rob Liefeld is, and his work is wonky as fuck.

>>6121122
>Have you read the Berserk manga? It looks like an amateur sketchbook
>And my friend who's an art school graduate can't draw as well as me, and I'm entirely self-taught.
Pyw

>>6121153
I see your point. Story is more important with comics. Many comics artists are still some of the best draftsman in the world, but that’s only the top

>>6121077
nta
I already planned out my prospectus but I have to go from the very beginning like drawing shapes then go forward to gestures/anatomy, and judging from this thread, bridgman's materials sounds interesting, any recommended bridgman books that i can add to my lists?

>>6121168
people usually recommend the complete guide but I think it might be good to get all his smaller books, since it amounts to more material.

On to torsos

>>6121168
>>6122754
Honestly, more material doesn't always imply better. Having one book with an overview of everything is confortable.

Drawing From Life (complete guide) is rather exhaustive, and going through it cover to cover is already a few weeks/months of work depending on how much you work per day.

Torso

Torso

>>6124215
torsos are looking nice anon, love the hatching

>>6124215
Awesome pics. Great size. Look thick. Solid. Tight. Keep us all posted on your continued progress with any new progress pics or vid clips. Show us what you got man. Wanna see how freakn' huge, solid, thick and tight you can get. Thanks for the motivation.

>>6124215
I have to agree with the others, this is great stuff

>>6118858
This is an etching, you can tell by the imprint around the edges of the toned background. using a brush that would mimic a very thin pen nib could work. Although replicating an etching will be really difficult because its a completely different technique of making art.

>>6124359
>>6124663
>>6124857
Thanks a lot guys, I definitely feel like they've improved from a month ago

>>6126194
bottom left one is great

>>6126216
Thanks, that one was really instructive for proportions

>>6127974
lines are getting way cleaner! Jia you, Bridgman-san

>>6128269
Thank you!!

I'm painting the girl on the left. I kinda wanna use straight up black for her legs (and then tweak it a bit on the canvas) but I also know using black out of the tube is not usually recommended. Any suggestions on what color to use? I feel like sargent used a lot of black straight out of the tube.

>>6130003
Cut it with chalk or marble dust then thin down with oil if too stiff, maybe add just enough umber to make it dry faster but not appear brown. I sense a slight bit of brownness from those stockings, but could just be the photo,

>>6130006
>Cut it with chalk or marble dust
Sure, let me just go grind off a bit of my Carrara marble block lol
Thanks for the input, I'm just looking for easy color mixing tips. I know some of you are way advanced in that field here, experimenting with weird pigments and mediums, I'm still taking my baby steps.

>>6130037
You did say you kind of want to use straight up black, so I told you how you can use black while preventing problems which is mostly its slow drying. You can also opt for a black like vine black which dries faster than bone or lamp black. Using calcium carbonate is nothing advanced and is pretty common, for making your own grounds for example. There are many sources of calcium carbonate. Most accessible would be to crush eggshells.

>>6130003
>but I also know using black out of the tube is not usually recommended.
Pause and ponder© on why using black out of the tube is not recommended, and on whether any of those reason is applicable in your case.

Understanding the context behind those rules is key if you want to get better, it's like "warm light/cool shadow", it works. 80% of the time.

From a distance, I wouldn't bother and go with something like >>6130006 suggests:
>add just enough umber to make it dry faster but not appear brown
This will make the black slightly lighter, warmer, and faster drying, which should overcome most common recommendations about not using black straight out of the tube.

Another common option to get a dark neutral is to mix ultramarine blue with burnt umber (you may have to tweak it a touch because they aren't always perfectly opposite on the color wheel, so you may get a slight yellowish chroma for instance).

That mix is nice: cheap durable pigments, no slow drying issues, add a little more blue to make it cool, a little more brown to warm it up.

>>6130003
pretty sure sargent painted with black. I remember him saying to Monet "how can you paint without black? That seems impossible!"

Lazy sunday

>>6131497
well i haven't drawn anything in a week, so you're doing better than me

>>6131417
with black yes, my question was more about putting pure black on the canvas, not mixed with anything else

Pen is starting to go

bleuutgghghhhvnnvnnmvv

>>6133969
the face is kinda off in the proportions or angles, but everything else is great. I really like the hand holding the sandwich.

New thread: >>6134773

Switched to cheap ballpoints