/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

no its impossible

>>5223356
How to Draw by Scott Robertson is the perspective autism level you need to do that

Study pictures like that, finding horizon line and all that shit
After a while you can come up with more complicated environments because u know them better

>>5223356
just draw

>>5223367
are you saying to reverse engineer from finding an images vanishing point? how do i know if there is more than 1?

>>5223356
Yes. Architects think this way in their designs. Even MEP engineers need to be able to visualize 3D space.

>>5223411
visualize on paper or in their mind? i struggle picturing anything in my mind and need to conceptualize it and modify it on paper to understand it.

>>5223417
In their mind. They use paper and/or models to help and verify measurements but architectural design starts in the mind.

>>5223417
>i struggle picturing anything in my mind and need to conceptualize it and modify it on paper to understand it.
Then you definitely need this
>>5223364

>>5223356
You can do this from scratch and there are technical perspective courses that will let you pencil all of that out but what what's also common is use a simplified 3D model with all the big shapes but no details and people just paint over that.

>>5223356
use 3d

>>5223485
how can someone just see this?

>>5223564
can you give me a quick run down of what to expect? i will look it up after i eat, need some food.

>>5223646
i have a sneaking suspicion more people are moving into 3d, i dont mind using it as an extra tool, but id like to know the correct or right way to do it on paper without a computer. Are there any of these perspective courses in a share thread?

>>5223728
might end up using it here and there but i want some knowledge first of doing it the right way

>>5223835
>can you give me a quick run down of what to expect?
Expect to put in hard work and come out being able to sketch in great perspective and work out whatever you want to draw all on paper, zero imagination work needed.

If you can get through that book you will become a perspective god. Definitely will require that you work slowly, don't move to the next chapter until you understand the one you're on very well.

>>5223356
certainly it's possible! the picture you've posted is not even particularly difficult from a technical standpoint, all you need is some basic perspective training and you could be drawing similar things in no time.

>>5223852
i really want to learn how to do this to elevate my work to a higher level. If you have any general advice id like to hear it, i dont care how much work i need to put in i will do it. ill check out the book, not sure if there are scans or not. how long should it take to master the boks material? a year? a few months?

>>5223960
this is pretty based thanks.ive been curious if the best way to learn, is to maybe try to find the vanishing point in all photos, or the horizon line, and to do what youve done here.

how are things like stairs tackled? do you just have to guess?

>>5223994
Being able to establish where the horizon line and vanishing point in simple photos is definitely a good skill to have, I'd say. The Scott Robertson book mentioned above is maybe too advanced for someone learning perspective for the first time, if you want a clear rundown on the subject I'd read Norling's Perspective Made Easy:
http://www.storytellerartist.com/documents/Perspective_Made_Easy.pdf

>>5224034
alright i will check out both of these resources. if anyone else has anything to contribute that would be great, thanks guys.

>>5223960
op here i have been watching a 3 1/2 hour video and am about 2/3rd through on persepctive.

in the example you drew, all the lines converge on one point, does that make it 1 point? or is it 2 point because of the horizon line?

>>5223994
>how are things like stairs tackled? do you just have to guess?
You just walk up them you idiot

>>5224412

>>5224400
one point!

>>5224440
how do you know when to use one point or 2 point? they seem like the same thing to me. 3 point is more obvious because of the elevation looking down or up.

>>5223356
I suspect this to be some kind of gatcha post... like "haha, it's not a photo, retards; it's actually drawn by an aspie"

It reminds me of old old work by Johannes Voss (aka. algenpfleger). He used to make these, but I guess he got bored, plus this must have been some very work intensive shit.

If you can't draw simplest vanishing lines just start by reading any book on drawing... really.

>>5223356
not from a Jedi

>>5224513
>gatcha post
no you faggot twitter discord tranny, i like geometry in art and i want to learn. Its way more impressive than your generic korean and chinese vanity anime bust art that gets churned out ad nauseum by souless zoomoid imitators

>>5224530
Here's a (you) you retard. Now go play with plastic bag or something.

>>5224456
it has to do with how you're oriented to an object/room, mostly. I'm not sure how to describe it exactly, but the Norling book posted earlier describes it really well. maybe this drawing will help too.
>>5224530
wtf?

>>5224287
Ernest Norling's Perspective Made Easy (it's a quick read). Watch and study Marshal Vandruff's 1994 perspective course, and read Creative Perspective for Artists and Illustrators by Ernest William Watson. I believe it was the textbook used with the Vandruff course. Don't get caught up in the beginning of the bookwhen he tells you to buy a bunch of outdated materials, just read through how to do perspective and all the use cases. Marshall teaches it very well and helps you understand it.

Best quick way to learn perspective? Watch this video by BaM Animation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upxBGNcryRs

>>5224534
>says dumb thing
>gets dumb response
whaaaaaat

>>5224536
how do you know how far to have the two vanishing points from eachother? The video i watched didnt explain it. too far or two close and it will create distortion right?

>>5224633
Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmR_Q1mtS7I

Learn a bit about camera focal lengths: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu-VdAK2mOQ

>>5223356
Mood is all about lighting, baybee. Specifically value and color.

>>5224633
I think it's fairly arbitrary, it really depends on the scene you're trying to draw. Having them too near one another will create distortion, yeah. Even in that example, the vanishing points are a little too close together. How far apart they are does technically determine the focal length of the camera, as >>5224659 describes, but it's sort of an advanced concept to wrap your head around.

Blender

>>5224513
That´s 3D tho, not very intensive to create.

>>5224693
What are these images from?? Looks like a great thing to study

>>5224786
nta but it's https://www.artstation.com/artwork/dODBd3

>>5224748
https://www.deviantart.com/algenpfleger/art/Apartment-psd-199910702

>>5224802
>https://www.artstation.com/artwork/dODBd3
nice

>>5223356
Make an environment in 3d program then trace it

>>5223404
Trace the lines to their vanishing points on some defence photos?

>>5224852
This person sets up the shapes and environment in 3D then paints details (here the statues, foliage etc ...).
You can either spend a good 30 min per iteration setting up VP's and checking camera view or 5 min in blender extruding a few cubes and moving the camera.
Hell spend 30 more minutes applying some base materials you have hanging around and set up light sources and voilà. Most of the scene is set up and you can focus on painting.

>>5225045
Most environment artists do that for everything that's not just a valley with some shit in the distance.

>>5223960
I have no idea how retards struggle with this, the concept isn’t even complicated

>>5225072
I know you want to be right about that 3d stuff and that's how you would do it, but I'm afraid you couldn't be further from the truth and you haven't done even a 2 minute research before posting. FFS man, his DA has gallery section named 'tutorials'.

I'm posting this for benefit of everyone who would buy into your explanation thinking you know what you're talking about.
This is what digital painting looks like when you put autistic levels of precision to construction and rendering. Becoming biological raytracing engine is obviously a skill that can be trained and one has to to get anywhere near these results. These works aren't that appealing to me, but are still a testament of what one can do if one isn't a crab.

>>5225165
I m not crabing I m explaining how most people do it. The result is essentially the same anyway.

>I'm posting this for benefit of everyone who would buy into your explanation thinking you know what you're talking about.
I know what i m talking about. The fact this specific artist decided to do a very inefficient set up for a, still, very artificial feel is irrelevant. 99% of other artists would lift some cubes in blender to reach the same result (including me, yes as you said). What's the point of knowing this one just aligns everything to his perspective grid and paint/draws like a robot ? Will this help OP ?

Algenpfleger used to be crazy good. I guess he got bored of doing stuff like this.. (who could blame him) or it just became too much work

>>5225221
idiot

>>5225221
>I m not crabing I m explaining how most people do it.
Come on, Anon. Stop bullshitting/gaslighting. Your post is right there: >>5225072
>This person sets up the shapes and environment in 3D then paints details
Come on.

>this specific artist decided to do a very inefficient set up
>What's the point
The point is to be ABLE do it without 3d aids or photos, because if you can't apply perspective to environment then you won't be able to apply it to characters or to the "details". You end up always using 3d/photos or half-assing it.

>lift some cubes in blender to reach the same result (including me, yes as you said)
Go on, if you think you can do as well with help of 3d, go on cook up something in few hours. If you're serious you'll actually try it and post the result here (no matter how bad).

>>5223356

Take basic perspective, figure out where your horizon is, start adding blocks and circles, ???, profit

>>5225243
sad

>>5225125
pyw

>>5225810
retard detected

op here i will read all of these in a bit im happy to see a lot of passionate comments even if its arguing, im sure there is knowledge to be found in some of it. i cant read it all for a few hours, but through a quick skim i see the topic of 3d tracing versus vanishig points and drafting.


I dont mind using a bit of each, but would prefer to be able to do as much as i can on my own so i understand what the fuck is going on. I want the freedom to do interesting environments but i do not what them to look overly sterile or boring, and i feel i will need to have a strong understanding of perspective no matter what to fill in the small details here and there and to fill negative space up with recognizable objects to create a believable backdrop in a drawing.


idk if 3d or freehand each have their own advantage or if one is better than the other i just want too have the tools to make something good and to understand what the fuck im doing so it doesnt always feel like guesswork or magic making a scene with different objects in it.

a picture like this is interesting as a background, and i would like to be able to make things like this, but not have them also seem so "set up" or come off so sterile or bland. (unless it suits the theme like scifi or surrealism which in that case id like to do also)

>>5225243
>Algenpfleger
who? post work please, quick google search didnt show any good building stuff (must be what you mean)

>>5225165
is it possible to do this on paper or is this sort of thing largely reserved for digital? i want to be able to do it on paper, but i feel like the act of having to erase everything would be hard and inefficient.

do you need to work large to have room to do this cleanly with trad materials? larger than you would digital?

>>5225833
pyw

>>5225045
between doing it from a 3d "underdrawing" or doing it freehand with perspective, which would give you the most control or freedom?

nevermind i looked up the algenpgfleerfhvbrvy guy, what an annoying name to type.

anyway what a weird deviantart gallery, there is some ambitious stuff in there but most of it seems very generic. sad. seems like he chooses the cloudy background portrait bust for a lot. makes no sense since they can make a background. what gives?