/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>5213979
A moderation of both

>>5214159
pfffffft you can't be diplomatic!

>>5213979
no no no ...
straights AND curves

>>5213979
dots

>>5213979
Straights every time if I had to choose. Bag of eels vs robust statue. Definitely straights

>>5213979
They both look stiff and boring

>>5214159
fucking centrists

>>5214293
Never call Bridgman boring, you troglodyte.

>>5214293
>stiff

>>5214293
I can tell you have heard of that saying before but that's it

>Pillow shader vs the knee blackouter
Both are horrible drawings, Bridgman loses because there's not a single straight line in a human body.

>>5214430
this is the most retarded statement I have ever laid eyes on

>>5214430
It's a teaching tool, you imbecile. There are no cross-contour lines on a human either, yet they're commonly used in teaching.

>>5214430
all line drawing is shit because people don't actually have lines on them
I honestly just can't comprehend how you uttered that

>>5214430
Theres not paint on people so dont paint them lol. Nice bait

>>5213979
You need both if you want max effect.

Too much curvature and you don't have enough structure

Too linear and your work becomes rigid.

>>5214469
>>5214477
>>5214483
>>5215387
>N-no, not my book that's compiled by literally who from leftover drawings made with charcoal on a yard stick
You keep learning from shitty teachers and that's why you get shitty results.
Drawing that's supposed to teach someone should be extra measured and thought out.

>>5215709
who's your preferred figure drawing teacher

>>5215709
it should be evident to anyone who's not a mongoloid the scrappy presentation isn't important because you can tell what it's trying to say just by looking at it. look at how bridgeman geometricizes certain muscle groups to make construction of complex forms easier to understand, and look at how holgarth uses the curvature of the muscles to give gesture and life to your drawings. why don't you stop being a pretentious douchebag who needs all his learning resources to be a pristine michelangelo painting

Is Burne Hogarth worth it?

>>5215864
he'll teach you some good techniques for making dynamic figures, he probably takes it too far so they look boneless and plasticky but as long as you keep that in mind he's very good to study from

>>5215709
>literallywho
>globally recognised and critically acclaimed iconic art teacher touted as making one of the biggest contributions to the art community of all time
I don’t say this often mate, but genuinely and truly, you are 100% pure bred farm raised corn fed hand reared free range NGMI

>>5214159
Look boys and girls, I own the books; they are just reference.
No ONE of these will help you grow. You have to work from life. You have to either take a course, use a friend/family member, or be a savant.
And, you have to draw alot.

>>5215947
I don't work everyday, but I know what it means to get better.

>>5215948
Or use a mirror. If you want to get better at drawing anime style stuff, I guarantee those artists that you hold in high regard can draw real shit too. Picasso could draw a self portrait.

>>5215954
You don't "have" to listen to me, but I have education under my belt. And I would hope you would listen to a person with education vs. someone who doesn't.
Am I the best artist--NO. But I understand how to get better.

>>5215973
when you say education what exactly do you mean by that? because most of the people on /ic/ never went to art school and still know this shit

>>5215973
i think that books will help you but you need to knwo what exacly you want to get from them/what they acualy teach...for example i undersand my shading is dogshit so i went to bargue plates since they do them in atelies and many pros reccomend them but i can say that ist stupid to expect a book to solve all your problems

>>5216033
forgot the image incase someone wants me to pyw

>>5215973
i realy like your work anon def gmi

>>5216026
That's a fair question.
I have not graduated. I got got accepted to UCLA & Cal when I was younger, I could not afford to go. I have been through community college courses in San Diego, I have an AA, I w
have taken my maximum credits in my electives. All art related, Photoshop, Illustrator, ceramics, drawing, figure drawing, painting, color theory, 3d design, scuplture.
I think that's it. Again, I don"t have a BA, if not going to Art Center or Otis, you're wasting your time. I sat in at one session at Watts. Not for me.

>>5216213
Sorry for my grammar/punctuation. couple cocktails deep.

>>5216217
The staff at Watts is/are awesome.

>>5216218
Here'sthe thing, I took 1 semester of Figure Drawing at El Segundo in Torrance. and 3 semesters of Life Drawing in San Diego.
Those are ot the same thing. I learned more in that 1 semester than I did in 3.

>>5216231
Working with a live model is essential, you do need to have the right instuctor. I can't remeber her name, she was extremely positive towards every student, but I you drew from a photograph(during her course), she her mind.

>>5216235
I/you*

>>5216235
she lost her*
Appropriately so, very strict, but very fair.

>>5216238
And, in all honesty, working with a live model, with a great teacher makes the difference.
She never worked on top of my work. She had tracing paper, so "if" she to show me something, she used that. Very patient, lovely teacher. Plus, we were learning "figure" drawing, which meant we were constructing the figure, so a bit different than just drawing the model.

>>5213979
That knee on the left looks so shit

>>5214293
ngmi

>>5216242
I hope that make sense.

>>5216244
You're right. I'm>>5215948
I have always had that problem with Hogarth, and Bridgeman won't help you either.
Bridgeman has like 4 pages on rhythm and balance, best part of the 200 page book, Hogarth is so strong on the anatomy, but its comic book, it's where the muscles are,but not really how they work'

>>5216033
I'm not sure I understand your sentence perfectly, and I speak for every atelier. If anyone is thinking about Watt's and you can afford it, go! Here's the one thing that stopped me: everyone ends up drawing the same way. That's what stops me from going; I kinda feel like I'm most of the way there

>>5216278
I cannot, I can-not-speak for every atelier.
My bad.

>>5216281
Just look at the student work from Watts.
It's awesome! Those guys teach you how to draw and paint, in my mind, it all looks like the same person's work.
If that's what you want--go. But even when I was learning in community college, I still allowed to make my own dumb mistakes.

>>5215947
what's the green and black book on foreshortening?

>>5216352

>>5216432

>>5216435

>>5216432
thanks anon, that looks like a useful book

>>5216432
It's okay, I bought it like 15 years ago.
This kind of stuff you don't have to buy anymore; there's so many images online now.

Left is more eye candy.

>>5216038
Thank you, anon.

>>5215947
If anyone cares-Morpho is the one. The anatomy is really good, and there are so poses where the artists shows what the muscles look like when the move. It's very "brass-tax" though, you don't get a good understandin of what the poses look like when skin is envolved.
I bought it last year, it's the one I look at the most.

>>5216510
so many*

>>5216258
the entire point of holgarth is to show you how to make anatomy more dynamic, and it's incredibly useful for that regardless of whether you think his actual art is good. and bridgeman is very educational, look at these legs and how he turns all the muscle groups into easy to understand (assuming you already know the necessary muscles) geometric shapes. neither of the OP's images are supposed to be polished or finished drawings, they're there to illustrate specific concepts

>>5216519
I appreciate that, and what you're saying is right. There are many approaches to learning how to draw the human figure. It's kinda like cooking from a cookbook.
My mistake is/was treating them like textbooks.

>>5216519
I don't know if you drink wine. Robert Parker is basically considered to be the number one sommelier on the planet. The first 40 pages of his "complete/buying" guide is the best reading on wine you can get. But that book costs $40. Similiarly, Bridgemans stuff on rhythm and balance is great, that ends on page 50 or 60 of a 300 page book.
These books are basically free, and with the internet, there are so many images you can use to pratice. The rub is, the text is very informative.

>>5213979
real artist doesn't need curves to have curves

>>5216586
I don't understand what you're saying, is it that bridgeman's writing is informative but most of his illustrations aren't? you've worded it slightly confusingly

>>5216598
based

>>5213979
I think the one on the left is a bit too surreal and would be difficult to apply to something appealing. I’ve glanced at his other books though, and I think he did that on purpose in this case just to display to forms better.
I really like the one on the right. It has a good combination of gesture with those round and sharp edges.
Neither of these are stiff, but I think the one on the right is more practical and appealing in this case.

>>5213979
gays and curves

>>5216622
he actually did some comic art as well

>>5213979
I'm too retarded to make curves so I keep stacking straight lines to create a curve

>>5216718
"some"? he was a massively prolific comic artist of his day

>>5214159
How could you forget that John K taught us that a trick to good drawing is to combine solidity with fluidity and life

Try both and see what works for you.

Stop expecting people to pick your art style for you.

Stop waffling on actually drawing and just pick one or both and do it.

Half this board is just people handwringing about art instead of making art, quit being a puss and just do it.

>>5217469
I'm not asking for my own art I was just wondering what other people liked

>>5213979
Straights when life drawing curves when construction drawing.

>>5218176
I don't think it's good to dogmatically choose one or the other for certain roles

>>5218185
True but that would be my preference. I prefer straights for life drawing because they're easier to measure and get angles on. Eventually you hit a point in a life drawing where you have as much information in your straights as you're going to get and can convert your straights to curves to refine the drawing.
And curves for construction because its more information to search out forms with, but sometimes you'll have to use straights to measure something out.

>>5218205
fair enough

>>5214293
>Bridgman
>Stiff
???

>>5215948
P O W E R F U L

>>5213979
Machine or Human?

Hogarth is aesthetic as fuck, he is like the femto of drawing.

>>5215948
KWEEEEEEEEEN

>>5213979
What I've learnt is that straights push you into being more decisive with decisions and brush strokes, thus helping you speed up your overall work process.

Curves are key for gesture, making the pose of your subject flow more naturally, reducing that sniff look we all see with beginner pieces.

Overall, the worth and use is case specific, as for style, well that's just personal preference, which shouldn't really matter, as long as it follows the fundamentals and you like it.

>pic unrelated

>>5214430

“Everything you've learned in school as "obvious" becomes less and less obvious as you begin to study the universe. For example, there are no solids in the universe. There's not even a suggestion of a solid. There are no absolute continuums. There are no surfaces. There are no straight lines.”

― Richard Buckminster Fuller

>>5219671

but what is abstraction then?

Is math imaginary and we're real?
or
Is Math real and we're imaginary?

I can't exactly show you a "4" or pull a "7" out of my arsehole, but seven and four clearly exist in the form of seven apples or four oranges.

Every useful system must have a variable flaw inherent in its design, it has to have some haecceity which makes it, it. It has to have something CHOSEN AS APPOSED TO another something.

For example, I'm going to build a bridge out of matches. As a bridge, functionally shite. but as art? Now we're getting somewhere.

Which brings us back to >>5213979

Straights or curves? P or Q?

or rather the statements,

All Straight lines are useful.
All Curved lines are useful.

Since there is one instance of falseness in the truth table, the entire argument is logically invalid.

X or Y? is a flawed argument by design.

>>5219701
>(p v q)
is that an owl?

>>5219730

kek can be if YOU BELIEVE

>>5213979
One makes me think wealthy art student who was taught everything they know. The other makes me think person who came from struggle who LEARNED everything they know

>>5215948
>>5215947
How old are you? How long have you been drawing?

>>5219005
>>5213979

See?

>>5219897
which is which? this sounds like another retarded and baseless 'soul' statement

>>5214293
>nigga
left looks like he is posing magnificently on a bodybuilder competition
Right looks like it just stopped walking and it's trynna orient himself