/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

you;re a fucking idiot

one of those perpetually useless people that collapses into hysterics when reality doesn't behave by your weird anime expectations that they;ve conjured up with "facts and logic"

drawing is harder than studying from some books and doing some figure studies, paradoxically your solution is to stop overthinking and expecting to get good after fucking one month or whatever of your imaginary hyperbolic time chamber

stop making cope threads and be honest with yourself about what you want, if you want to draw then go and draw

>>5217587
I started actually applying myself at drawing over a year ago.mayne two.
>Stop overthinking
I can't. Not with anything I do, I cannot get rid of that impulse in my brain. I feel upset like this every time I draw and I can't stop it. I'll get focused into a sketch, step back for a second and feel awful, hating the idea of picking the pencil back up.

>>5217597
it's not a matter of can or can't, just fucking do it. you have to do things that are hard. the hardest one of them all is change. if you wish to change, then change, and no amount of tears or despair will make anything better. your suffering is not a debt owed to you by the universe. all of your behaviour is learned so unlearn it and pick up the god damn pencil and draw like it's the only thing that you want to do

>>5217581
have you considered a backup profession like welding?

>>5217604
I don't know how to stop it. All I can think about is how disappointing and defeating it feels.
>>5217616
I know I'm never going to be a professional artist, I don't aim or plan for it.

>>5217581
Basics of the basics. Nobody teaches this kind of stuff, because if they did it, they did it before they started drawing, so they dont consider it drawing, but it might had an impact on it.

I am 2 days into this and I believe its starting to show, I am starting to have the same freedom I did when I was a kid drawing. And it makes sense since I had to do this kind of stuff in kindergarten as homework.

Try it out yourself, see if it helps. Use whatever tool you find comfortable, hold how ever you find comfortable, do whatever symbol you find comfortable, press however much or little you find comfortable. This will create your style, because it will create a habit your hand will fall in when making marks on paper.

Thats my theory atleast.

A lot of people feel overwhelmed when they realize the amount they actually need to practice. I’m telling you, 1000 hrs isn’t enough to get out of beg, and 3000 hrs is not enough to go pro. Practice all day. Make it your life.

>>5217621
disappointing and defeating? that some minute amount of second-guessed "studies" haven't by some alchemical principle turned your lead into gold? i already said it's not that easy, and at the same time much easier than youve made it out to be. have some conviction and step over the worthless self pity, fight it if you have to and fight it every time it appears until you carve yourself a new drive to proceed.

you do some "studies", whatever you think studies are, and then your own work after all that hasn't improved so you get frustrated and ask why you haven't internalised the stuff that you've been studying? the truth is that you didn't really study anything, art is not some academic rpg bar that exists in the abstract. when faced with this, the route forward is to actually do something difficult, put aside your emotions and ask HOW exactly you missed the mark and what isn't lining up with the material. if you don't have a real desire to improve, or you forget your trajectory, you won't be able to put aside your emotions and take any step whatsoever, only rehash the same shit and keep confirming for yourself that you're incapable of learning. to make real improvement you have to really commit, and if the belief isn't there you're done before you even begin. not the belief that you can improve, or that it takes a certain structured curriculum and a certain amount of practice to improve, or any belief related to improvement at all - simply the belief that it's what you really want. all the other stuff is subordinate and will serve you on the path but it won't get you anywhere by itself

>>5217648
maybe I just don't enjoy drawing. I don't know why I bothered starting and I don't get it. I don't know why I agonize over it or why the thought of quitting feels bad.
I can't focus on drawing nearly as long as I need too, I can't do that much of anything, and when looking for mistakes I can never manage to put a solution into practice. I just know that it's wrong.
>>5217641
I don't expect or aim to go pro. But I can't possibly imagine doing it that much.

>>5217648
Not that anon, but it's a combination.

You need to have a critical eye and figure out WHY what you're doing doesn't look right, but mileage is also a factor. Anyone can look at someone's work and point out things that look wrong, but not everyone could draw that same work.

It's neither one or the other, it's both that end up showing improvements.


>>5217581
How long have you been drawing for?

>>5217687
then you know exactly what to fix. either way you have to be really honest with yourself, and know that coping is just that - coping. if quitting feels bad because on some level deep down you know that you want to keep going, then quitting won't fix anything. go ahead and try, by all means - if you really want to learn to draw you'll come back sooner or later, and with some extra regret for the time you wasted lmao. at the end of the day it's really this simple - you do it or you don't. if you decide that the answer is yes, then you have to change and overcome the walls you're facing. if you decide the answer is no, then that's that - you tried and it wasn't for you. but don't get me wrong - that's not to say you can't get better. i promise you that you can overcome this and any other wall you face in regard to anything, unless it really is genetics and you're a 5ft midget wanting to play basketball. the question is what do you really want? until you can resolve this for yourself, and i mean really resolve it, then you won't go very far in any direction. take some time to crystallize this idea into a fine point, and when you've done that, im confident you'll understand what you need to do

>>5217708
Like 5 or 6 years, but I started wanting to try to really improve late 2019 or early last year.
I don't have the focus to draw for nearly as long as everyone here says. I get so exhausted and burnt out and emotional so quickly. Every skill I've tried to learn has turned out this way for me. It hurts my brain
>>5217713
I don't know what I want. I don't know if I can ever overcome these walls and how. I want to be better at drawing, but I don't think I could dedicate so much of my life to it. I guess that means I don't really want to be better.

>>5217708
absolutely, but this is part of what i meant. mileage by itself doesn't do anything, it's mileage in regard to solving problems. if you've made an objective assessment of your work and found it wanting, the mileage goes into putting it right, and not copping out. a true study is one that helps you understand something you're struggling with, and true practice is course correcting and fixing your own mistakes over and over until its second nature to get it right. mileage is an inevitable part of this when it comes to any skill, and my point is that if op is certain of his direction, the mileage comes naturally - this is maybe what some people might consider to be talent. but if the direction is uncertain, and the studies are done in a vacuum for some nebulous idea of improvement, there will never be any true mileage taking place.

>>5217722
How long and how often do you draw? If you wanna draw just as a hobby and you enjoy it, any frequency is fine, but if you wanna improve, you should be drawing daily. At least a couple hours.

>>5217727
Generally I think you're right anon, but a lot of people just take it the wrong way. OP might be doing actual studies with the intent of improving, focusing on a specific aspect that's weak in his own work, but if he draws once a week for 20 minutes, it's never gonna be internalized. So maybe he is studying correctly, but just never actually puts in the work in applying it. Advice of "you're not using a critical enough eye" might have the opposite effect, where he's even more critical of himself and kills his drive to draw more. Honestly this whole thread just sounds like OP is frustrated, but hasn't really given information on his situation, imo.

>>5217730
I try to like every day for about 20 minutes-an hour or two. The last few months I've been in an awful state regarding this and I'm general, and haven't really been drawing as much. Been trying to get back into it in the last few weeks.
I don't know if I enjoy it at this point, or why I just get in agonizing moods like this over it. I want to stop being like this but nothing works.

>>5217722
it doesn't mean anything, if you've been unsuccessful so far what's to say you're not simply conflating your approach to your desire? like i said, quit. if you find yourself wanting to come back, then think back to everything ive said here. although, that said, if it happens with everything, then it's only a matter of time until you decide you have to either settle on something or kill yourself.

listen, forget what people say about having to spend 25 hours a day doing something in order to improve. it's true, in principle, but you're approaching it from the wrong angle. i may well be off the mark here but it seems like you're approaching it backwards from the pure improvement angle. again, read what ive said - there's no way you'll be able to do anything for these ridiculous amounts of time if you don't have a real reason for doing it. approaching it backwards this way is completely superficial and naturally leads to feelings like this, because the drive falls through at the first hurdle and the work seems like a monumental effort for nothing. first, figure out what you want. then, once you've done that, being honest with yourself every step of the way, commit to it. whether you do or don't is trivial, but at some point you'll realize that it's much better to, because then you'll get somewhere instead of nowhere. really this sounds very pessimistic but it's not, unfortunately it's just a case of if you know you know. you can take my advice on this or you can ignore it, completely up to you. but in the most basic terms - figure out what your direction is, and move. all of the problems will become trivial if you have a reason to solve them - if you're solving them for their own sake, or some other reason, this op is where you'll end up. this concept comes naturally to people who are passionate about something, but for people like us, we have to take a long road through nothing to get there.

>>5217737
"I try", I didn't ask what you wanted to do, anon. I asked how much you drew. Honestly you should be honest with yourself about how much you draw. If you drew the OP, I really doubt you've drawn for 35ish minutes a day for 2 years or so. There's some good stuff in it, but there's also a basic lack of understanding of 3d forms, which given this thread, I don't think is a stylistic choice.

When you draw for practice, what do you do? How do you go about practicing? How do you "Study"?

If you genuinely don't enjoy it, why do it? It's okay to have other hobbies. Art is for anyone, but it's not for everyone, if that makes sense. I don't say this to discourage you anon, but there's only so many hours in the day, not enough to waste it on hobbies that you hate.

>>5217748
I honestly have no idea how much I draw. And I have no idea why I still do it. I don't know why it makes me so sad or what is wrong with me.
Lately I just end up copying random shit from twitter, even though I know it's not helpful. I used to do more studies of faces and bodies, but now it just feels so overwhelming and awful..

Art ist not for everybody champ!
Remember it's hardwork+talent
If you don't have either of those, it's over.
So best thing to do is step back.
Anyways, art is a piece of shit that doesn't have anything good to offer to wannabes.

>>5217754
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail. If you're enjoying drawing that's good, but if you wanna improve, you should think about what specifically you wanna improve, one thing at a time. (I wanna improve at drawing figures is probably a bit overwhelming. I want to improve at values is better.). It sounds like you're just aimlessly doing nothing, and of course you're not gonna improve like that.

>>5217757
Hard work+ talent if you wanna be the top 0.0001% of artists, but if you wanna draw at an above intermediate level talent would help, but isn't necessary. Don't crab people, anon.

>>5217757
I know it's not for me. Nothing is for me. I just want to end it.
>>5217759
I don't know, I have to improve literally everything. I know no more about anything that I have studied than the areas I have not. I may as well have never held a pencil before, but being at that level after having practiced is so overwhelming and crushing and I can't get it out of my head.

>>5217730
my point in terms of your reply: if he's studying correctly, but he's never put the in the effort of applying it, then if he's honest with himself, he knows he's not studying correctly. correct studying in the most practical sense is studying that brings a tangible improvement. a copy is not a study, knowledge in the abstract that hasn't been chewed over and spat out time and time again isn't study. if you genuinely desire improvement, you will be able to make these judgements for yourself - if you did a "correct" study, but you learned nothing from it, you change your tack: either you go back to it again, as many times as necessary until you can channel it correctly through your own work, or you change the method of study, change the material or approach, until you find something that works for you. the final judgement is in the result - did i really learn from this? have i really managed to incorporate this piece of knowledge into my work? if not, then you go back and do what's necessary until you can. this process is natural if you're looking ahead and really wanting to move forward. if you have no such desire, then you cop out by not being honest with yourself, and that's where you get empty studies that don't lead to improvement. if you don't have that desire then it feels uncomfortable and becomes much more difficult than it really is. you'll spend years doing meaningless "studies" and then look at the lack of improvement as a way of rationalising your own inadequacy, when the truth is that you were inadequate by choice, even if you didn't understand that at the time. saying "but i did the study correctly and got nothing" is a great joke - you may well have done the study "correctly", in regard to whatever perception of a correct study you have, but at the end of it all the truth is at your own feet. if you really want to get better, and i can't overstate this, REALLY want to get better, you'll know for yourself if your study was done correctly.

>>5217768
Let me clear it up for you anon, you don't HAVE to improve anything. Improving or not is up to you, no one has a gun to your head and is gonna force you to get better.

It really boils down to do you enjoy drawing? Really think about it. If you don't, why are you doing it? It sounds like it's making you miserabel

>>5217779
I don't know. I hate seeing all this great art everywhere and not having the ability to create something like that myself. I hate not having any kind of value, any passion. Being an empty, nothing, vacant person. I don't know anything. Not even about myself or what I feel or what I want.
It is making me miserable. I sit down to do some figure drawing and an hour later I want to kill myself.

>>5217778
You can do a study correctly in a way that will help you incorporate it into your work, but you still need to practice that thing. If I learn the correct finger positioning for an f chord on guitar or whatever, but never practice my chords, I'm never going to be able to incorporate that into a song. He could very well be correctly studying, but not putting in the mileage needed to solidify the new skills. Look at the OP, Regardless of doing studies or not, that to me just doesn't look like someone who has been drawing seriously for 2 years. It looks like someone who doesn't have mileage.

>>5217783
Having a hobby where you create can be a great outlet, but there's plenty of them that aren't art. I don't know why you picked drawing in particular, but there are tonnes of visual mediums (pottery, sculpture etc), other non visual mediums (music etc). If you picked art out of jealously and not out of love for the medium, ofc you're miserable forcing yourself to do it. You have to find an activity you enjoy before you should think about getting serious about it.

>>5217788
I don't enjoy anything. I hate pottery, sculpting, whatever. I was learning to play guitar years ago. I had the same problem. And I rarely even listen to music. I don't like writing or singing or anything.

>>5217768
ok, so let me try it this way. nothing is for anyone you fucking moron. we all come into this meaningless world as stupid drooling babies and then die at some point. as a human being though you have the amazing facility of saying this: there's something I find meaning in. even if it's only a shred, even if you don't even understand why, you can say there's something about this piece of shit world that makes me feel something. that may be art, or it may not be. for me it's art - im fascinated by the fact that even though im completely lost in this pointless shithole world, there are things like music, or stories, or paintings, that make me really feel something - and if the world were truly meaningless, as ive decided it is, why the hell should i be feeling anything in regard to these things? because maybe, for me, there's something really profoundly beautiful in the story, that manages to create something out of this seemingly nothing - to make me feel something when by all my cynical logic i shouldn't feel anything. personally, this is why i think art, in any form, is an exceptional thing to pursue. whether im good at it right now or not isn't the point - the point is that i will put in my best effort regardless of any wall that gets in my way, because ive decided that there's something meaningful to pursue - something i really, truly believe in. this is what faith is all about. cringe as it sounds, find your faith and your path forward will become obvious. take some time and reflect on what you really want, and after that's settled, you can start climbing, and your walls will become guideposts and milestones

>>5217789
Then your problems are deeper than you can expect to find on an art crit board. If you don't enjoy the hobby, don't force yourself into it. Have you ever tried pottery, sculpture, writing, etc?

>>5217793
Yes. They just frustrate me. everything feels like such an effort.
I don't understand why not being a good artist makes me feel so empty and bitter.
>>5217792
I've never been able to figure out if I truly want anything. Other than the most basic, instant gratification things, like eating, or videogames, but I've fallen off the latter over the years

>>5217801
This is beyond the scope of art crit, anon. It sounds to me like you're depressed, and I would probably seek psychological help.

>>5217581
Looking at your posts, you sound depressed and you should probably seek professional help. But, just in the case this helps someone...

>Studied from [...] keys to drawing [...]
I, honestly, don't believe you. I'm sorry but I see too much symbol drawing for someone who claims to have read keys to drawing.
The process is pretty simple, really: Look at thing, draw thing.
What part of that is causing you trouble? Can you visualise the lines you need to make but fail to get them right? Or maybe you don't even know what lines you should be making in the first place? Is it proportions? You need to identify the problem before you can even begin to address it.
Looking at the pictures you uploaded it seems it's all of them. You don't seem to put any though into your lines. They look purposeless? It also seems like you draw features the way you think they look instead of drawing what they actually look like. It should help to stop thinking in terms of lines and more of the shapes (made by light and shadows), though you should know this already, assuming you actually read keys to drawing.
Also drawing random objects, as opposed to people, tends to be an easier way to practice your observational skills at the begining since you don't get nearly as frustrated when things look slightly off.

>>5217737
>about 20 minutes-an hour or two
How much time did you put into this one >>5217754 ?
The biggest problem I see with people just starting out with drawing is they make a 5min doodle, it looks like shit and they start complaining. What did you expect? Sure, a professional may be able to do something decent in 5'. You're not a pro, tho, so take your fucking time, goddamit.
Also, on the topic of not being able to do this for hours. Like with everything, you get there with time. Start with 30' and after a while you may end up doing it for 2hs just because you're having fun with it, not to fill a quota.

>>5217587
>hyperbolic time chamber
nice reference bro

>>5217801
mull over what ive said. take your time in the matter, it's really the most essential question you have to answer in your life and theres no rush. everything i have written is based on my own experience in what seems to be a very similar place to the place you're in right now. you'll get there, even if it doesn't feel like it, and like i said, you might well have to go through nothingness to get there. maybe you'll understand my angle in retrospect, or maybe you'll resolve it practically. either way, stop with the categorical statements about your self and what you can or cant do. stop forcing the improvement for the time being and step back. really, ask yourself what you want - and you might find that you have a surprising amount of agency in the matter. once you resolve this, you'll understand the nature of this secondary problem you've posted here. "I don't know what I want" isn't a categorical statement, you just haven't decided yet, and i promise you that you can and you can get a lot further than you think

>>5217792
Faggots and the cope of arts.
Only morons cope with something that only geniuses can achieve.
This is why many people play videogames,not because they are depressed/too dumb.
Its because this world has become too demanding.
If you draw,but its not professional level drawing, and provided you are an adult, everyone is going to think you are retarded or an edgy mama boi.
This is whaymt helds back people who see no improvement in art.
So fuck you art copers.
Play videogames until you die OP.

>>5217802
My doctor referred me to a psychiatrist but it's a three month wait, so I have to figure out how to not kill myself on my own in the meantime
>>5217815
Idk, I can't visualise things very well. I can identify the shapes present in things kinda buy still not translate them onto paper accurately. Proportions is another problem. Everything really
I don't remember how much I spent on those, on the link one I think I spent like, 25-40 minutes together?
Tbh it doesn't really matter how much time I spend, it doesn't help me in figuring out how to correct my mistakes and make it look better.
>>5217824
I hope I can get there. I honestly don't even know if there's anything I really do want, to decide on.

>>5217837
>Idk, I can't visualise things very well
> Proportions is another problem

These are not things you should be worrying about right now. Start with JUST copying. And start with inanimate objects for the love of god. Humans are one of the hardest things to draw. I know I started with figure drawing too, but I switched, spent two months just drawing what I see - headphones, cigarettes, pens, laptops, boxes, shoes - then moved on to animals - like crabs and bugs and shit, not even cats and dogs - for another month or so, and then I moved back to drawing figures and it did a TON of good.

Just learn to draw what you see first.

> buy still not translate them onto paper accurately

So for this, grab a magazine. Find a shoe in an ad or something. Now, draw the shoe, putting literally ALL the effort possible to get it right - measure with your pencil, get angles, plumb lines, all that jazz. Next, take the magazine and put it underneath your drawing as if you're gonna trace it and compare your drawing to the reference. Notice everything you did wrong. In my case, it was mostly angles (protip to fix that: think of angles like they're on a clock face; someone told me that on /ic/ so here I am paying it forward). Then REDRAW THE SAME FUCKING THING.

I'm telling you man, you think you're doing everything you can, but you 99% aren't. You're getting frustrated at drawing either because you're bad at it or because you're depressed outside of drawing and you're carrying that with you.

Do the work. That's all there is to it.

>>5217792
>stupid drooling babies
I stopped reading here because you obviously don't know what you're fucking talking about.

>>5217837
answering that question takes time and a lot of erring. make a concentrated effort. find a day to just go sit in a fucking field if that's what it takes, maybe several days or several weeks or several months. ask yourself that question and ask yourself why you can't answer it. you can do it. even if you don't have faith in yourself, i have faith in you, because ive been there too. the truth is nobody can resolve that particular question for you - nobody can tell you what to want or why you should want it. and the answer doesn't always come naturally - it certainly didn't in my case. but you can resolve it. stop shitposting and figure it out

>>5217853
aight chief thanks for the (you)

>>5217837
Knowing how to kill yourself increases the chances of you actually doing so try to avoid searching that kind of info. Trust me.

Maybe "visualise" was not the best way to put it. I used to struggle with this problem in which I KNEW exactly what line I wanted to make and where, but I didn't have the skill to pull it off. It really infurating and can drain you very quickly. Then I tried doing a thing called "ghosting" and it has somewhat improved.
To get better at translating shapes onto paper I just kinda kept trying over and over again until I got it just right. And over time, I started getting it right more often. It's a bit exhausting though. Maybe there's a smarter approach. I feel like I brute-forced it. xD
On the topic of time, if I'm doing some figures like those it would take me 10-30 mins each. A full study, a few hours, depending on what I'm trying to study (colour ones I particularly struggle with). I think you're rushing it.
And by "proportions" I meant using your pencil to measure stuff, nothing fancy.

>>5217852
This is pretty much what I did as well. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my original post.

>>5217687
>maybe I just don't enjoy drawing. I don't know why I bothered starting and I don't get it. I don't know why I agonize over it or why the thought of quitting feels bad.
>I can't focus on drawing nearly as long as I need too, I can't do that much of anything, and when looking for mistakes I can never manage to put a solution into practice. I just know that it's wrong.

The absolute surest sign of depression+narcissism is that every sentence a person says or writes has an "I".

>>5217581
If that's your work, it's obviously a beginner drawing but also a beginner who's trying to apply a lot of the right stuff.
You're at a point where I believe the right thing to say to you is "just draw".
As others have said, after you read about the theory the rest is sheer mileage. You need to draw A LOT to internalize what you have learned about. That means hundreds and hundreds of hours of drawing. Thousands even.
You were expecting something else?

>>5217727
It’s amazing that it this has to be said
Of course you don’t get better at math if you stop at solving 2+2=4 and don’t move on to multiplication and division.
If public school have taught you retards anything it should be that doing the same shit over and over without trying to learn more harder more complex things is not how you get smarter/better. That’s like the most basic idea of learning.

>>5217581
The price to pay for getting better at art is the pain/frustration of having doing a lot of sucky drawings to learn how not to make them suck. If that’s how it feels then you’re doing it right.
If you can’t handle then good luck trying to learn how to do anything. That’s learning a skill for you. I’m not telling you to give up, I’m telling you to stop being a bitch and embrace the suck. You can thank me later.

>>5217581
Those books are entry level, read some Vilppu, Huston and Hampton.

>>5217862
>Knowing how to kill yourself increases the chances of you actually doing
Yeah ik, I kinda made a half assempt last night, but nothing happened. Woke up kinda in the mood to draw, but I'm scared of feeling that way again
Ghosting is helpful, I kinda forget about it because I just kinda rush things. Same with physically measuring.
>>5217951
Ah fuck goddamnit
>>5218026
I know. It hurts to be at such a basic, nothing level after all this.

>>5217581
This thread is hilarious proof that my deductions about Loomis and Vilppu being a meme were correct and that the only reason people suck at drawing is because no one here knows how to teach.

If there was ever a Guitar board and people in /beg/ were asking how to get better at guitar, they'd just be directed to JustinGuitar.

So why is the only JustinGuitar equivalent we have right now is Loomis?
Just look at what that's doing. Look at the /beg/ threads.
Look at this damn thread.

You would NEVER see this amount of autism in a Guitar board because there are people that can actually teach how to play Guitar.

Which is funny because you'd think that something that has been around longer would have better resources than something that has been around for less time.

But you don't see the autistic misinformation that is being spread around the internet about how to draw.
Why does everyone have to go through the How to Draw an Eye stage?
Why not just be honest from the beginning and tell the aspiring artist that looking at those kind of tutorials or reading How to Draw Manga books will not help them in learning how to draw?

What's with all the gatekeeping?
Why do you get called a retard when you apply the exact principles that people say that you should be applying and then explaining a COMPLETELY new set of principles that are EVIDENTELY supposed to be common sense???
How were they supposed to be common sense?

The problem here is that people who have been drawing their whole life have never tried any other skills.
They don't realize the amount of effort and knowledge it takes to understand just the absolute basics and telling people to "fuck off" or "Loomis" doesn't help anyone.

Then we get fucking threads like this because 99% of this board is autistic as fuck.

YOU are the problem, not OP.
OP did what you fucking said to do and it's not working for him.
And now you don't want to take responsibility???
Fuck off.
I'm glad this board went to shit

>>5217754
>Read keys to drawing and drawing on the right side of the brain
>Still symbol drawing
I'm not trying to sound like a dick here but you certainly did not follow each assignment there's no way.
You may need a school environment if you're unable to pick up on the mistakes you're making yourself.
There's nothing wrong with going to school not everybody can be self guided with their education

>>5218726
I've posted it before, I know someone who teaches a "special ed" art class. She says /ic is like her class, online.

I won't bother going further. There are people here honestly trying, but they're a very small minority in a sea of severe mental and emotion issues - which is the norm for any forum on 4chan.

>>5217581
Do course related.
Find it in one of these:

>>5181374
>>5211714

These are way better than any Loomis books you'll ever read.

>>5218743
That can be true in some cases but not here.
The advice here is genuinely fucking garbage and that's why people don't improve and have to figure shit out themselves.
Honestly, all we need is ONE good teacher.
ONE fucking good JustinGuitar equivalent in drawing. That's fucking it.
Then these /beg/ threads wouldn't be filled with all this absolute garbage.

>>5218726
Have you read /gg/ anon, most people don't even play guitar. Oh btw if anyone wants guitar lessons hmu.

>>5218758
Well then they must be fucking retarded since I was able to at least begin to play Guitar with JustinGuitar with absolutely zero natural ability.
I gave up on it because it's kind of boring but if I really wanted to get good, JustinGuitar would be the best place to start as an absolute beginner.

The problem is that we don't have that in drawing.
Absolute beginners in drawing are fucked.

Even when I studied Japanese, we had Japanese From Zero (George Trombley) and he is really GOOD place to start learning Japanese as a beginner.

It just feels like every other skill except drawing has that ONE teacher online that you should be going to to get out of the Absolute Beginner hell but we don't have that in drawing.

You faggots better wise up or I'll take that fucking position.
There's an empty spot so if no one is going to fill it.
I'm honestly daring anyone to go and try to fill that void.
Otherwise, don't make threads about me asking how I'm making a living off teaching /beg/s when you faggots were wasting your time here shitting on /beg/s and telling them "Loomis" while I was spending my time learning the best ways to teach an absolute beginner.

>>5218770
Dude I just play guitar... What the fuck is a "/beg/"

>>5218775
Beginner

>>5218800
That makes a lot of sense, thanks anon :)

>>5217581
I find it funny that you woe-is-me folks don't seem to realize the link between your self-deprecation and your lack of improvement, you actively demotivate yourself and almost intentionally do things wrong every step of the way because of your fragile ego.

>>5218726
I believe I could teach, I probably wouldn't be the best at it, but if I spent hours and hours of effort hands-on guiding a beginner I believe we would see improvement.
Thing is it fucking takes time and effort, and most likely an approach customized for the student.
You can't really condense years of experience making art into some half-assed post on an imageboard. It's easier to just say fuck off and go read Loomis. Loomis teaches the right stuff! But he can't make you an expert artist in three weeks. Get fucking real.

>>5218770
give me a break dude, I am still learning myself. What I could offer I already posted >>5217635. How more basic than that do you want? But ofcourse it was totally ignored. Its like its not even there. You complain there is nothing to teach you, but prefer to pay attention only to the words other posts. Because thats what you come to do, speak. But ignore any exercise given on a plater.

Do your warms ups, do your measurings, and then draw. I see no constructions in the all drawings posted in this thread. If you want to draw well without constructions, then you are doing fine, you just need to do it 10.000 more what you already did.

Self-education isn't for everyone. It takes intelligence and ability to think critically.

>>5217581
post ALL the drawings you made following these books, i know it wont be above 500 drawings

>>5217581
you aint studied shit

>>5217581
Congrats, you've just learned that studying means fucking nothing. Welcome to the club. Start fucking DRAWING if you want to get good at DRAWING. Studying only helps once you're already have your feet in the actual drawing side of things and need to improve your knowledge.
No fucking idea why people constantly push that you need to start with studying.

loomis is just the beginning

you need to apply what he teaches you and start studying how the world works, the anatomy of objects, making simplified structures from them and build your visual library

>>5222618

do a lot of copies from other artists - make them as true to the original as possible, as if you were making forgeries
the drawings of john singer sargent are a good source for this
also a lot of studies from photography
eventually you want to move to drawing from life though

>>5217581
Learn anatomy and literally just draw more often. Dont draw 1 bad picture and call it a day. Fix it until it looks good and learn in that process. When i draw 1 picture i look up all sorts of shit on google dude. That way ur not only making a good picture but ur also learning.