/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Proko

Uldis Zarins' Anatomy for sculptors then Bridgman.

>>5209064
*kisses anon*
thanks

>>5209064
Bridgman ironically you just ignore all the shit drawings and just read the goldmine info.

>>5209152
But Bridgman is bad for beginners, right?
What if a person knows only basic Vilppu gesture?

>>5209092
*spreads butt cheeks*
you're very welcome

>>5209152
Bridgman is great. But you need at least 100 IQ to benefit from his sketches.

>>5209153
Vilppu is a meme. I wasted months of my life with the geezer with nothing to show for it.

>>5209158
Why?

>>5209158
What makes you say that? His "method" are just 5 tools that you can use to facilitate your drawing.
What makes you say that you wasted your time?
Also pyw

Instead of going top to bottom and trying to memorize everything I'd start by finding the most important things and learning a simplified version of them. Learn a simplified structure of the skeleton, basic shape of the ribcage, clavicles, sternum, The hips and the greater trochanter etc. Nothing super detailed just how they function structurally and what the major landmarks are and than learn practical muscles as like the deltoids, pecs, calves etc.
Basically just get your foot in the door with things that will help you construct a simple figure and you can worry about more detailed anatomy when you get there.

>>5209158
Calling capable teachers a meme has become a meme at this point.

>>5209177
>he fell for the calling-teachers-is-a-meme meme

>>5209177
>he fell for the “calling-teachers-a-meme- is-a-meme” meme

>>5209158
Same. I drank the Vilppu kool aid hard when I first started out and I spent over a month filling up sketchbooks with Vilppu gestures because “it’s the most important part of the drawing”. Learned absolutely nothing from it. When I finally watched videos of actually good professional artists showing their actual process and I saw that none of them did Vilppu gestures, it was such a revelation.

>>5209193
Show one of the "professional artists" drawing method?

>>5209169
>pyw
What is that supposed to prove?

>>5209169
His gestures are needlessly overcomplicated.
Karl Gnass is vastly superior.

>>5209193
Like who?

>>5209193
Yep. His method is impractical as fuck. All of the curviness and "guiding the eye" nonsense, would just cause me headaches and not lead to any progress.

>>5209195
I want to see what are you doing wrong.
>>5209196
He is literally using the Vilppu method.

>>5209194
David Finch’s videos on Gnomon Workshop, among others. Dunno if you can find them for free anywhere.

>>5209204
>He is literally using the Vilppu method.
He isn't. He has explicitly criticized it.

>>5209205
David Finch is awesome. His workshops are still up on rutracker.

>>5209202
oh right I see, you don’t actually realise this but there is a certain trick to gain the most out of vilppu. It’s a guaranteed success every time and it’s actually a really simple thing that a lot of people miss when they’re first diving in. They run straight into things without considering this one simple thing, it really is a make or break factor in your success when it comes to art, in particular somewhat abstract concepts like gesture which vilppu leans heavily on. Other things like soul and appeal fall under this too so pay attention. Basically, the trick is to not be a literal retard, if you are dumb nobody can teach you things. It is that simple. If you’re a retard, go do something retarded. I hope this helps

>>5209216
shhh, they are not ready.

>>5209012
>bobs
>vagene
all you need to memorize to make it. you're welcome, anon.

>>5209216
I do understand gesture and I've gotten quite decent at it. But not thanks to Vilppu.
There are less retarded ways to teach it.

>>5209231
I do art because I love it, not because I want to become mediocrity.

>>5209232
show us your gesture, we all can learn from you. Maybe some people are in the same position as you (they find Vilppu difficult) and want to see alternative ways of drawing gesture/characters.

>>5209232
Thanks to who then? if no response your opinion will be considered worthless crabbing

>>5209239
Thanks to Karl Gnass, David Finch and Bridgman.

>>5209236
Not posting anything.

>>5209244
You want a piece of me, punk? Huh, what a cacca.

>>5209244
Gestures should take you no time and you should have tons of them to show. Usually I don’t support pyw but this is clearly not an irrelevant callout. You’re not gonna be met with spiteful crabs in this scenario unles you are completely full of shit. Come on man, post a gesture. I’m serious. I hate how people are now scared to post anything because of pyw being abused

>>5209246
Why, I ought'a...

>>5209251
Maybe it would sound like a copout to you. But I don't draw digital, don't have a scanner and my phone is shit.

Plus I didn't claim to be a master or something.

>>5209251
You want to steal my gesture style?

>>5209254
make a pic with your phone. or draw with a mouse in 10 secs a gesture

>>5209254
Nah I believe you. I’d just rather see people post bad attempts than nothing. It’s cool if you don’t have the stuff tho

>>5209260
This is my gesture, are you happy now?

>>5209260
Even if my gestures are shit (they're not; just mediocre) it still has no bearing on the topic at hand.

No famous artist or industry professional uses Vilppu's method.

>>5209264
I'm a professional and very well known artist. Vilppu is my everything.

>>5209264
bro I’m not attacking you I’m on your team. I was just wondering what approach you took to it and how it differed from vilppu. I’m genuinely interested yknow. Everyone is so hostile

>>5209266
pyw

>>5209272
I can't.

>>5209273
Do some one minute gestures for us

>>5209273
Then don't make claims you can't substantiate.

>>5209169
what are the 5 tools anon?

>>5209285
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij_-HStl04o

>>5209288
It's not the "5 tools" I have a problem with. It's the way he uses them.

>>5209298
What do you mean? Why you don't like the way he uses them?

>>5209158
>>5209193
Both of you are massive retards if you tried to learn anatomy with vilppu. He is not useless, but he definitely isnt the way to start. Vilppu is made to polish already existing anatomy knowledge.

>>5209313
What a load of horse shit. Vilppu is shilled as a good first teacher to every /beg/ on /ic/.

>>5209331
He's being shilled to begs outside of /ic.
The most overhyped living art teacher out there.

>>5209313
Believe it or not I hate his gesture more than his anatomy.

bump

>>5209208
What did he say exactly?

>>5209313
what an arrogant asswipe
how the fuck is an absolute beg supposed to know that if they can't even tell that Mark Crilley is a meme teacher?
this is why I only use ic for shitposting
people never offer valuable advice here and only direct you to teachers that are good for people who have been drawing for years or since they were kids
that's exactly why we have all this 'Loomis' crap
Loomis is an awful first teacher yet because artists who have been drawing their whole life read the first few pages and learn something new and then shill it as being good for beginners
that's why people dont improve in beg and no one ever leaves here making much gains than when they arrived
this place is only good for shitposting

>>5209012
just draw

>>5209158
Found the beglet

>>5209525
What do you think I am, retarded? Who fuckin draws lmao that’s some seriously gay shit

>>5209257
soul

>>5209529
I'm way ahead of you. Trust me, nigger.

im not reading the whole thread, but im intersted too, what is the final concensus?

>>5209603
Vilppu sucks. Go with anybody else: Gnass, Huston, Hampton, Finch. Don't go into the esoteric mumbo jumbo like Riley or Vilppu.

>>5209608
zank u

>>5209612
You're very welcome, anon-kun.

>>5209599
t. beg

Vilppu is amazing. He gave me the skills to draw and paint anything I want

>>5209677
pyw

>>5209677
I highly doubt it.

>>5209012
H-hot

>>5209671
I already told you, I'm not beg.

>nooo I can't just post some 1 minute gestures, what if /ic/ makes fun of me?

>>5209603
>tell me what to think

>>5209724
Too much Vilppu. Introduce some straights so your figures don't look like they're made out of spaghetti.

>>5209724
Why are you geh?

>>5209529
>draws as a child and accumulates 10+ years of drawing experience and then wonders why begs can't follow through with teachers that have personally helped them
this is why I know I dont even have to be that good at drawing to be able to teach, I just need to be able to help people improve (which is something this entire board is incapable of doing--see /beg/ threads for proof)

>>5209898
I'm sure there are specific good reasons to use straights in gesture, but I don't see how avoiding the "spaghetti look" is one of them.

>>5209724
based
>>5209898
cringe

Post three teachers who are better than Vilppu, come on I'm waiting.

>>5210088
Proko, Sinix, Crilley.

>>5209158
I learned more from one week of Vilppu videos and some drawings than any other in my life. Just don't only do Vilppu, always challenge yourself. I have not mastered gesture and form at all, but if ranging skill from 0 (stiff as shit) to 100, I went from like 2 to 8 (ok every now and then).

>>5210122
Find me a single professional artist who uses his methods.

>>5210126
Literally everybody. Because his method is just solid form and rendering. Why don't you watch his videos, for once?

>>5210147
I've spent hours watching his videos. Time I'm never getting back. And no not everyone does it like him. He's pretty much the only one.

>>5209012
There is no "best way" because we're all different kinds of learners
lots of people think talent is a thng because they are often only learning in a way and taking resources that aren't suited for their development

>>5210154
boohoo i couldn't learn anything but its their fault, not mine for being a dense retard

>>5210161

>>5210154
ngmi. how can you draw for hours and not improve? That's not even Vilppu's problem

>>5210185
his idea of improvement might be more magical
he can probably do well drawing some of those poses in the video from imagination
or he's not doing enough of his own exploration, using the info from the videos in his actual life drawing

>>5209012
Stonehouse

>>5209687
t. begtard

>>5210185
I did improve rapidly after ditching him.

>>5210981
thats what happens when you watch his videos and don't practice :/

>>5211004
I did practice.

>>5211007
you practiced and didn't improve?

>>5210088
Loomis, Patrick j jones, Jackie chan

>>5211043
Pretty much anyone is better than Vilppu.

>>5211057
nobody is better than Vilppu

>>5211057
Did Vilppu-san hurt your little worthless feelings? Go cry somewhere else, this is a Vilppu bros board.

>>5210126
Mate, it's just construction + gesture. Pretty sure almost all professionals use it to a degree. Some have done it so much that they don't even have to draw the forms out anymore (internalized the info), but sooner or later you're going to have to learn and practice it.

>>5211070
How many times should I reiterate this. I'm not against construction + gesture. That's what I practice on a daily basis. The way he does it is needlessly hard to understand.

>>5211059
Vilppu-kun didn't hurt my anything. He just wasted my time.

>>5211077
Wanna fight? Punk head? You want to see me mad?

>>5211076
no, you're are just too /beg/ to comprehend describing form. There are only 3 tools he uses to describe form:
1. Bracketing (conceiving the form as a whole)
2. Corners (e.g. skeletal landmarks)
3. Cross-contours

If you listen to his lectures he only ever talks about those 3 things. Then there's gesture, rendering, and the basic procedure. The basic procedure is just going from big forms to small forms.

>>5211081
What is cross contour?

>>5211086
dont fuck with me, sir. you're baiting me.

>>5211093
I'm a /beg/ and I want to know.
I've never heard about cross-contours.

>>5211095
its running a line over a form. just google it. Vilppu uses it more as an analytical discovery tool, to help you solve problems. Like, if you're having trouble understanding whats happening in the abdomen, you should look at the model and try to see the surface of the form, and then you run lines over your drawing to describe what you are seeing, to reinforce what you saw.

>>5211081
This is getting tedious.
Please don't reproduce. Average IQs are already low enough.

>>5211105
man, when did I insult you? All you've done so far is shit on anything anybody cares about.

>>5211124
>no, you're are just too /beg/ to comprehend describing form
>man, when did I insult you?

>>5211079
I would curb-stomp you, you degenerate pussified biatch.

>>5209012
Literally just download some porn of a girl with fat ass and thighs, screen cap it at a good frame, then trace over that and draw your preferred anime head over top. I get $30-$60 for these and they take me literally 45 minutes to make if there is no shading involved.

>>5211260
*kisses passionately anon*
m-maybe you are right.
*puts finger into ass and stimulates prostate*
I should do it...
How do you get your initial clients? You buy ads or what?

>>5211131
>>5211151
Stupid /beg/. That wasn’t an insult. That was fact

>>5211420
I'm not a pro, but certainly not /beg/ either. And it is an insult coming from a nobody, such as yourself (no offense).

>>5211434
You claim vilppus method is unique, that nobody else uses his method. That’s some /beg/ talk man. I even tried to explain it to you but you got too sensitive

>>5211485
I didn't say that I don't understand his method. The way he presents it is retarded. You can learn the same concepts from Huston, Gnass and a plethora of other (better) teachers.

Quit putting words in my mouth.

>>5209012
Does anyone have anymore responses to OP's question besides anatomy for sculptors??
>am beg 2. Just wanna learn some anatomy

>>5211639
Eliot Goldfinger's Human Anatomy for Artists. It's a bit more in-depth.

>>5211639
dissection videos

>>5211676
Best Gore or Heavy-R? Where do you watch those?

>>5211680
youtube

So is gesture the hardest fundi or just the most popular?

>>5211757
Anatomy requires the most rote memorization. Gesture (after a bit of instruction) will come naturally with time.

>>5210161
learning styles are a myth and there is no scientific data to back it up. Not to mention the flaws it has when you introduce it to someone struggling with learning. 9 times out 10, they're going to say they're a visual learner, because it's the path of least resistance.

>>5212387
I don’t know how it’s possible that everyone would function exactly the same like robots. It’s only logical you could call them “learning styles”. Some people are more sociable and therefore learn better from other people. Some people are antisocial and have significantly more experience reading than socialising and therefore do better that way. Some people are antisocial internet addicts that spent the last decade watching videos and therefore find it easier to binge video courses. They can all learn the same thing but just find it easier in different ways

>>5211757
The hardest fundamental to master is funk

I'd suck villppus crusty limp old cock if given the opportunity . Just saying. This man is a legend.

>>5209177
Classic blunder, he fell for the “calling-teachers-a-meme- is-a-meme-is-a-meme" meme, what a fool