/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

God do I hate those people that say "don't talk to me till I've had my first cup of coffee"

>>5182393
No you gotta practice with Loomis first or your ngmi its a fact

Skill > Talent

But talent does in fact exist.

>>5182393
Talent is like base stats in an rpg.

They won't understand and don't want to. They wont understand the time and dedication you put into developing a skill because to them its just a means to keep their fractured ego intact. They don't care about the things you've given up in pursuit of something because they want to believe it was always out of their control it was never up to them in the first place. They wont get how insulting it is for someone to tell you the things you worked for was given to you on a silver platter. The time you spent writing this could have been better spent and the time you could potentially waste arguing could be better spent. Forget these people. OP, and let them wallow in their self inflicted misery. You've got better things to do anyways.

>>5182393
Its true lol, I started drawing when i was like 3 and i never stopped, only got ok when I was 15 and only starting to be semi decent at 19.

>inb4 pyw

Do you really believe that every person has the same innate ability in everything?

People severely overrate talent or use that term interchangeably with skill, but talented people exist lol. I see people who start drawing at of course it looks like shit at the beginning but because they have good observational skills and intuition they improve quickly. And there are a bunch of people who do studies all day every day and do everything by the book and still aren't skilled. But I think that it's still possible to get really good through hard work and practice.

>>5182422
Are you me? Also,
>pyw

>>5182398
What do you expect? They have an addiction.

>>5182412
talent is an xp gain multiplier

is talent just another way of saying they started drawing young?

>>5182393
So you are saying that anyone who started late (after 30) without previous experience is hopeless? I really want anyone to see counterexamples against >>5175026

>>5182393
>No artist immediately ever picked up a pencil and just started drawing half decent shit off the bat.
True, but talent is very real. Let's say we have 2 artists, A (Talented) and B (Untalented) and they both apply themselves and put the same amount of work in 2 years.

After these 2 years, B is still a /beg/ while A does very good art and is nearing int-pro tier. While B keeps working and trying to pick up the basics A is already picking up more elevated concepts at a faster pace, by the time B reaches /int/ in 5 years (a good estimate) A is already on a whole universe of difference. Not only B will never catch up, On top of B learning slower it also gets stuck on the plateaus for longer. All of this without taking into account the fact that while A gets showered with praise B constantly has to struggle mentally as to why all of its effort goes nowhere.

You see this in daily life in all spheres of life, wherever you cope with it or not is irrelevant as it still happens. Nothing you can do will confer you talent so the only choice if you're B is working hard since you have no other choice.

>t. artist B

>>5182393
"Talent" is an excuse people use to not apply themselves to get better

Some people just simply have an innate ability to be good at a certain thing despite how little experience they’ve had, hence where the term “you’re a natural” comes from.
Talent is real, but it’s more subdued and subtle than it’s lead to be. People with talent aren’t these perfect gods.

>>5182456
This.

>>5182447
I'm rooting for you, but it might be hopeless. It's a risk, anyway.

>>5182393
>>5182422
I didn't draw as a kid because I didn't know how. No one taught me how to draw, I couldn't figure it out by watching others, and nothing about it was at all intuitive to me. When I was asked to draw something in school, I just scribbled on the page because I didn't know what else to do. I eventually figured out how to copy simple symbols I saw others using, (a square with a triangle on it is a house, five lines with a circle on top is a person, etc.) but spending time doing that never led me to any new insights.

How do people start drawing so young? Do they receive some sort of instruction, or is the activity just completely intuitive to them?

>>5182393
>No artist immediately ever picked up a pencil and just started drawing half decent shit off the bat
You're confusing talent with experience&mileage, which is not what talent and aptitude is

>>5182393
God, you are so fucking basic and dumb.

talent does exist, usain bolt can run faster than michael phelps, but art is different, because it does not have rules. so you can use anything to make up your lack of talent and you can play with your strengths what ever that is.

>>5182447
Is 28 late?

I have practiced both music and visual arts and I find the concepts and skills in visual stuff much easier to grasp and learn. Music functions in such a different way that my style of thinking doesn't seem to work with it very well. I do can learn it but it takes much more effort, kinda like reading in a foreign language.

>>5182997
BASED answer

>>5182456
>You see this in daily life in all spheres of life, wherever you cope with it or not is irrelevant as it still happens.
we don't, because no two persons live the same life. so we don't have a way to isolate all the variables to prove that it was talent.

Talent = an area of expertise that your brain is wired to gravitate towards. That's all.

>>5182393
I just wrote something nice about talent to another anon, I'll paste it here.

>talent
Talent doesn't work the way most think it does.
Talent amounts to "how easy X step would be in X skill"
Talent comes for individual skills, not art as a whole, and it can come in different ways.
For example:
>artist 1 may just have an eye for picking nice colors right off the bat, but getting those amazing colors or certain complicated lighting colors will take them decades
>and artist two may take decades to get in colors to where artist 1 was in year 1, but after he overcame that the latter part of figuring out the subtlety and difficult colors may come to him at light speed.
Simply because our brains are wired differently we learn different portions of different skills in a different pace, this is the true face of talent, and the most you keep going the more likely you will to eventually blast through. Having an early skill for something is just one form of talent
Masamune is a good example of an artist who has a slow creep, but he never hits a ceiling. you may say that doesn't sound like talent but as he is one of the most skilled artists in the world right now and seeing how a lot of people hit a very hard ceiling that is very lucrative.

Talent is real.
It is not inborn skills.
It's aptitude to learn a thing more quickly.
Certain things (Taste and ability to pick good designs from bad designs or generally be creative) can NOT be taught.

A "talented" artist will quickly grasp 3d space, quickly begin to understand light and shower, and have a voice worth actually realizing artistically. He'll be "good" in a few years, and "great" before he's in his late 20s.

An untalented artist is too stupid to really every fully grasp fundamentals, and his voice is just regurgitating anime. He MIGHT be good by the time he's 30 but he will never be great.

>>5183012
This.

>>5183012
pretty much. someone who just likes putting marks on a board is naturally going to spend more time doing that. non-artists go through some impressive mental gymnastics to rationalize their lack of skill, but in reality it's just hard work and an innate interest in the subject of art that makes an artist good.

talent is how fast you get there, not WHETHER you get there
anyone can cook

>>5182393
That's not what talent is you idiot. Talent is the guy who draws once a week for fun being better in the same timeframe than the guy who grinded 6 hours a day.

>>5183269
It's speed AND soft skill cap.
Real life works pretty closely to Bannerlord.

>>5182398
they really mean, don't talk to me at all

>>5182393
Talent is how easily you can pick up a skill.

>>5183453
Makes sense, since I picked up drawing and guitar playing really quick, even though I started one at 2yo and the second at 19yo. I also picked up math, physics, running, swimming, climbing, ice skating, gardening, coding, writing and fencing very easily. Some people just have a gift for learning, but I will always suck at the social game due to all the nonsensical crap that goes along with it. People get so absorbed in their timely pieces of propaganda that when you act like a human around them they'd always have something to project shame on you for.

>>5182393
thanks for posting my OC :^)

>>5182393
i was born talented
i picked up a pencil not long ago and I am way better than 99,9% of people. i drew here and there as a small kid but I never practised. i am disappointed that I am not magically way better now that I'm older but its very fun and rewarding. if I keep drawing ill probably improve 10 times faster than most people here. i am by no means good at all, but talent is very real. ill gladly trade with you if you have social talent though

>>5182456
But that's not reality.
The reality is Person A just happens to really love drawing, so they do it a lot and slowly develop skill. Then by the time they are 13-14 everybody tells them how talented they are, which encourages them to draw more, which leads them to getting better, which leads to more people telling them how talented they are. It's a positive feedback loop.
Meanwhile Person B tries to draw, looks at their drawing, realizes it's shit and tells themselves they are untalented and are NGMI. They try again a few years later, try some actual tutorials and make a little bit of progress, but tell themselves the road is to far ahead and they are NGMI. They repeat this a few more times. Then after that 2 year period they are still in the same /beg/ level they have always been in. And they haven't been drawing everyday for 2 years straight, they've spent most of that time telling themselves they are NGMI because they lack talent. Meanwhile person A has been drawing everyday for that 2 years. And he's now at pro level.

>>5182393
>thinks talent doesn't exist cuz he's a beglet
based /ic/ poster

>>5183617
>hurr durr B was never trying
I hate this line of thinking so much. Its survivorship bias of the worst kind and incredibly noxious. I keep drawing, practicing and trying everyday but since I'm not good and can't make amazing progress every other day apparently that immediately invalidates all my effort and equates me with the average /ic/ no draw poster.

>>5182398

>>5182393
Whats is this igualitarist shit on my board?
Be honest, your talking to adults here

>>5183331
>soft skill cap
wdym?

>>5182438
in the lower one you are only getting 1.7 exp whereas the top one gained 374 exp.

Talent - its how you will tryhard,hours of practice and theory, ats all about that

>>5182393
Of course "talent" exists. You think Umbekwe from a small Savannah tribe is gonna draw the next Mona Lisa? He barely has a concept of linear time.

>>5182393
Talent is real. Talent does not require starting from a young age. Talent is solely an affinity for something. Affinity makes studying feel like fun instead of hard work. Having fun studying means more gains faster.

This is the truth behind talent. It is only a drive to do more than others because you like it.

>>5184205
Everyone starts to slow down and plateau in skill eventually. Where this is varies depending on intelligence/aptitude.

>>5182465
I had similar problems. Whenever we had drawing periods in elementary school I'd always draw scenes that had a bunch of green at the bottom to represent the ground, and a bunch of blue at the top to represent the sky, with the ground and the sky separated by clear air in the middle. I kept drawing like this until around 5th grade, when someone finally told me to look at a photo of the horizon and notice how the sky comes all the way down to the ground.

I think the only bit of art that I ever taught myself was how to make 3D letters when I was looking at the Nintendo 64 logo.

Look at the assistant teachers from force, who help Mike Mattesi teach. They all draw like garbage. That’s because they grew up and were trained through the force drawing method.

Talent is luck. It’s getting the right instruction, info, and motivations at the right time. If I had never come to ic and started studying Vilppu, I would have probably learned a lot slower. My improvement sped up extremely rapidly because I had the right instruction and I had people giving me good advice here.

>>5183617
Pure BS. I've made very basic scribbles as a toddler and then drew pokemon as a kid. Then I stopped altogether for more than a decade even though people complimented my work because I wanted to fit in and didn't want to stand out. I've picked up drawing again about two years ago and have drawing on and off mostly for fun in the beginning, now I'm better than most people who've been serious about art for decades.

>>5183952
How long until
>Don't talk to me before I've had my vaccine shot

>>5182393
Talent is an excuse lazy and dumb people use not to study a skill. Talent does not exist.
>>5182447
>>5183001
Van Gogh started painting at 27.
No age is 'too old' to learn how to draw. With enough determination and with a clear path you can learn how to draw on a somewhat decent level in 3-10 years, depending on the amount of work you're willing to put into it.
I'm 24 an started my journey at the end of December. Will see you lot in 10 years when I'm drawing coomer comics and earning 10 grand a month off of my Patreon.
Jk. I draw for myself and don't share my art with anyone.

>>5184541
better than
>Dont talk with me before YOU had your vaccine shot

>>5182465
I'm going to be completely honest with you anon. I haven't ever wanted the help of others, especially when it comes to art. I figure it all by myself intuitively and know exactly what to improve on after I complete a piece. I don't do model studies, I don't study references, I might look up references of things I don't come across often, but I mainly draw from imagination.
I'm this anon:
>>5184538
I used to draw pokemon for fun and started drawing my own pokemon. Drawing in school was so bizarre to me, I remember, because people were so bad at it, all they were good at was tracing. People didn't grasp colour theory, not to mention their shitty clay figurines. I sculpted a frog at 10yo for fun, has correct proportions even when I look at it now. I didn't understand why I was so different from others in this respect, I found it weird, made me feel alone in the world, so I stopped with it altogether.

>>5184553
Van gogh also never got good. He's just a funny crazy man.

>>5182428
Fine here’s an old one from a year ago. I know it’s shit but I literally have no other pics of my stuff on hand rn

>>5182465
Idk I just started copying Disney characters and Pokemons and I eventually started drawing little characters and OC’s when I was 13 and then I started observational drawing when I was 15 out of boredom. That’s when I really started to improve at an accelerated rate. I also picked up gouache and watercolor at that time, and I discovered that I was naturally good with colors, never learned theory or practiced it, just came naturally so I’m lucky on that front.

TLDR: basically you start copying stuff that you like as a kid, eventually you move on to more advanced stuff and pick up colors as well

>>5183606
Post your work you insufferable faggot. Oh wait, you can’t because you’re a fraud

>>5184553
Surely if that's the case we would have more artists who started after 30 and 40. You didn't bring any example to sustain your claims

>>5183952
I’m supposed to take Concerta and the fact someone would take that shit willingly is just... why? Why would you enslave your own brain with drugs like, uh?

>>5184538
>>5184560
>I've picked up drawing again about two years ago and have drawing on and off mostly for fun in the beginning, now I'm better than most people who've been serious about art for decades.
> I don't do model studies, I don't study references, I might look up references of things I don't come across often, but I mainly draw from imagination.
My dunning kruger alarm is going off like crazy. I'm not even a talent denier and I've got no reason to cope personally, as I learn fairly quickly myself. But not effortlessly, and not without seriously studying from reference and life. You'd have to be a once in a millennium individual to get good without looking at reference. I've never known of a talented artist who didn't do at least that much. Are your standards just low? Prove me wrong please, I'm interested in seeing if the man to surpass Michelangelo hails comes from 4chan.

>>5184662
Maaaaan you just gave him attention. Now he’s gonna make this thread his personal bragging space

>>5184662
Mind you, If Michaelangelo was alive today, he would probably be a NEET 4chan lurker.
>>5184756
Chillax anon, I've got better things to do.

>>5184519
yeah but you can always get criticism for it. as long as you can learn, you can improve

>>5185086
Anon, if you're being serious and this is really your work, this isn't "better than most people who've been serious about art for decades," not by any reasonable definition of "serious" or "most." You'd benefit a lot from doing the things you boast about not doing, like studying from reference. If you really are talented, this isn't evidence of that, it's evidence that talent isn't a super. You still have to put in the work to get good.

>>5185146
superpower*

>>5185086
fucking garbage...

>>5185146
Do you honestly think that I'd post my best stuff in this thread, senpai? Especially when I know that no matter what I post you'd play it down just to prove your point?
>>5185150
>Calls a sketch garbage

>>5185279
Who are you comparing yourself to?? Perpetual devianart begs? Your old kindergarten classmates? If that's your bar to pass, then you win, good job, but most people taking it seriously want to get seriously good.
I'm not interested in gaslighting you but nobody's impressed by this considering how much you were flexing. Like it isn't atrociously bad and if you had just said I learn quickly nobody would have questioned it. But no, you said you're better than most people who've been taking art seriously for decades. Then when you pyw you don't even post your best? Why give 110% all the time, isn't that part of being talented?

>>5185279
well someone has to tell you, otherwise you will keep bragging instead of actually getting good...

just read the sticky and don't post outside beg

>>5182398
>not hating "peopl" who take coffee at all
Stay away from junkies, or you're gonna run into trouble. It's like associating yourself with fat people, or coomers.

>>5185086
>>5185279
AHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH
>He thinks this is better than most people who have practiced for 10+ years
>'N-not even my best stuff, you guys just WANT me to fail so even if I pulled out my secret amazing art you would still say it sucks'
Cope

>>5185279
>>5185086
You're shitting me, right?

>>5185279
Now I feel better about the painting I posted damn

>>5185086
LMAO

>>5185333
I stand by my word, if you look at MOST artists out there, they're not god class. I'm not saying I am either. Van Gogh for example has some hideous works and some really nice ones, but I wouldnt consider them hard to execute, he has his own style which he himself developed and a life full of work behind him, which is really what measures success more than just having an artistic gift. I value hard work, and I have worked hard in my life, just not in the art realm, I do it purely for my own fun. I do take art seriously, I just never considered it a task since I enjoy it so much.
But that's not the point of this thread. There are people like Rembrandt, who I wouldn't dare compare myself to, since he is really, really good at what he did. Now compare his work to Van Gogh's and you'll see that there is such a thing as talent.

>>5185610

>>5185279
You can tell an artist's skill level from the loosest of sketches shitter.

Really hope you're trolling, otherwise god help you.

>>5184560
>>5185086
>>5185279
someone cap this thread

>>5185627
Something about DK /beg/s never ever gets old. Delusional arrogance is just so fucking funny when juxtaposed with reality.

>>5183617
literally described my as
now I'm making sure not to pay attention to that voice that says my drawings are shit

>>5185735
Right, you don't want to be too hard on yourself to the point where you don't improve from it

>>5184618
Been thinking about this so here's a blogpost: I don't think it's totally up to the physical effects of aging that there's so few notable artists who began in that age range, considering the absolute paucity of learning resources available to someone wanting to become an artist before the proliferation of the internet. Couple that with the longstanding perception (and often sad reality) that a university education in art is both cripplingly expensive and unlikely to see financial returns, then I'm sure that many, if not most who had a genuine interest felt that art was an inaccesible pursuit and simply turned away, regardless of age. This must be especially true of those who were old enough to already have careers, families and other paths of education behind them.

I mean, where would a working class man in England in the year 1930, aged 35 or so, go to learn how to become an artist? If an average 40 year old man in a medium to small U.S. town wanted to self-learn in the year 1990, what was really available to him? With no friends or family who were already engaged with art, where would he even know to look, just to get started? And how many were able to divert their life courses to pursue this? I think it goes without saying that the pool of 'late-starters' who could have flourished, if they had the wealth of information freely available to us today, without having pursued art from a young age becomes very low.

>>5185760
Speaking of notability, we're almost always looking for examples among famous artists and industry professionals who are notable enough to have their names known, and neither of these constitute anywhere near the majority, and maybe not even a sizeable minority of artists who could generally considered 'good,' at least depending on one's standards. Personally, I've stumbled across a few very good examples of artists who started around age 30 and beyond who I thought showed great aptitude, but they've either had a meager online presence or I've forgotten about them since they do coom art and other subjects that don't interest me, so go ahead and call me a liar.

tldr; I think the life circumstances of people aged 30-40 better explains why there's so few notable beginners in that age range than 4chan's concept that the brain becomes geriatric shortly after fully developing. With whole curriculums and terabytes worth of learning material being available within hours to minutes of searching, age is not the limitation it once was. Be the change you wanna see, fucker.

fuck it I'll do it myself

>>5182393
so you're telling 20 and 30 year olds to 'Just Draw' knowing full well that it would take over a decade before you actually make any real progress?
people like you are so ignorant to how it is like to learn how to draw as an adult and it disgusts me everytime someone says they've been drawing for 10+ years and they're barely in their twenties yet they think they have valuable advice
I dont give a shit about your advice if it took you 10 years and more to get somewhat decent at anything
Give me a 25 year old who got good in less than 5 years to teach me. Even if he's not top-level, I'll get more from him/her than you idiots that dont even know what you know
fuck. I hate almost all of you here because of ignorant shit like this
It's like a fucking rich guy wondering why poor people complain about being poor even though they inherited their money
You dont know shit, fuck off with your ignorance and misinformation

>>5183269
>anyone can cook
I feel like that quote goes in favor of talent in the movie's context

>In the past, I have made no secret of my disdain for Chef Gusteau’s famous motto, “Anyone can cook.” But I realize, only now do I truly understand what he meant.
>Not everyone can become a great artist; but a great artist can come from anywhere.

>Tiny Brain: Art skill is determined by natural talent.

>Big Brain: Your ability to learn/grasp information and techniques is determined by natural talent, which influences your art skill.

>Galaxy Brain: "Natural talent" is what it's called when you have the right combination of motivation and not-being-autistic to study and practice properly instead of mindlessly drawing janky fanart and 3/4ths anime heads for 6 years straight wondering why you're not improving.

>>5185764
good screen frend this is going to the next ic cringe thread

>>5185760
Your reasoning falls off when you realize there has been quite a lot of notable writters, musicians and basically every other branch of art outside of visual that started late after 30 and were able to become good.
>>5185763
>I've stumbled across a few very good examples of artists who started around age 30 and beyond who I thought showed great aptitude, but they've either had a meager online presence or I've forgotten about them since they do coom art and other subjects that don't interest me, so go ahead and call me a liar.
Since you conviniently don't have any examples at all, not even a single one, and the fact that they have so called GREAT aptitude while doing coom yet SOMEHOW they manage to stay invisible in an age where coom has never been more prominent I'll call you a liar, and a terrible one on top of that.

>>5185942
>Your reasoning falls off when you realize there has been quite a lot of notable writters, musicians and basically every other branch of art outside of visual that started late after 30 and were able to become good.

I can't really speak for other artforms, but I think drawing generally has a much higher ceiling to proficiency due to the wide array of fundamentals that one has to become familiar with, which goes back to what I said about the lack of learning resources being the primary impediment. To use writing as an example, virtually everyone is given the tools to write well from a young age. Music, too, I think taps into something that is inherently easier to express well than visual art, but I may be talking out of my ass there.

>Since you conviniently don't have any examples at all, not even a single one, and the fact that they have so called GREAT aptitude while doing coom yet SOMEHOW they manage to stay invisible in an age where coom has never been more prominent I'll call you a liar, and a terrible one on top of that.

Well, for one example, there's Tatsuo Horiuchi, who learned how to paint in Excel of all things after he retired. I think he stands as a good example about what I said about looking for examples in only the most visible places. Horiuchi has been at it for twenty years, but has only been discovered relatively recently. Also Hugh Pindur who was discussed in the other thread. With access to learning being so easy now, I think it's inevitable that more competent late comers will emerge.

But whatever disadvantage age truly is, I just don't understand the intensity of the pessimism around it. Why not focus on helping others to achieve what they can? Why do so many people want to play gatekeeper and keep people attached to their anxieties? It doesn't matter to anyone whether some stranger succeeds or fails, so why not help them succeed, or just say nothing?

>>5186191
Tatsuo Horiuchi's art is extremely unremarkable and its only reedeming factor is the gimmick (Excel).

Also you conviniently forgot (again) the part where Pindur started drawing young but had to quit somewhere inbetween, he didn't start after 30 from nothing at all, as always very convinient for you to left that one out.

>But whatever disadvantage age truly is, I just don't understand the intensity of the pessimism around it. Why not focus on helping others to achieve what they can? Why do so many people want to play gatekeeper and keep people attached to their anxieties? It doesn't matter to anyone whether some stranger succeeds or fails, so why not help them succeed, or just say nothing?

You are not helping them, as a matter of fact you are damaging them big time.

Lying (and lying through omission through silence) is pretty damaging because it sets extremely unreal expectations based on false grounds that people will never be able to reach, having people live the equality and everyone is a winner myth primes them for frustration and sends them on a goose chase for failure once reality rears its face.

Want to actually help? Its very easy, if you want to help people in this situation feel free to bring plenty of examples of good artists who started after 30. By lying through your teeth poorly at every turn while trying to scramble examples you are doing more damage. A good reply for >>5182447 would be a godsend to get things on the right track.

>>5186233
>Pindur started drawing young but had to quit somewhere inbetween, he didn't start after 30 from nothing at all
I'm not the guy you're replying to but at this point you're explicitly setting impossible requirements, you don't just wake up one day in your 30s and decide you're going to be a professional artist, it's pretty much a given that at some point in your life it was something you had interest in even if you didn't pursue it.

>>5186271
>No one after 30, after achieving stability in life, one day decided to fully dedicate themselves to something they always wanted to do but never had the chance to do so in their lives.
If you label that as an impossible requeriment in itself there is no point in discussing this further, even more so if you are not gonna bring any proofs and insist on your extremely damaging lies.

>>5186233
>Tatsuo Horiuchi's art is extremely unremarkable and its only reedeming factor is the gimmick (Excel).

You could very easily say that of any example I give you. There is no objective measure to art's quality outside of what is marketable. I don't know what you define as "good." I think Horiuchi's art is good, and it's also worth noting that Horiuchi began when he was twice the age we're discussing.

>Also you conviniently forgot (again) the part where Pindur started drawing young but had to quit somewhere inbetween, he didn't start after 30 from nothing at all, as always very convinient for you to left that one out.

That "inbetween" period was 17 years. Almost two full decades of atrophy, and by the way he discusses it, it sounds like he had forgotten everything he had learned before. I don't even know how good he was before he quit, do you? Also remember that he began learning again while maintaining a career and raising two children. If he can accomplish that, then the average 35 year old should be to reach appreciable heights as well.

>Lying (and lying through omission through silence) is pretty damaging because it sets extremely unreal expectations based on false grounds that people will never be able to reach, having people live the equality and everyone is a winner myth primes them for frustration and sends them on a goose chase for failure once reality rears its face.

I haven't established expectations for anyone outside of saying that now is the best time to learn for anyone, and you haven't established what counts for failure. Personally, I believe that aiming beyond self-satisfaction has a higher potential for destruction the higher one aims, regardless of age, and I have nothing to say for anyone whose aim is to compete in an industry that is notoriously oversaturated and not even particularly lucrative for those who do succeed in it. I don't think anyone should be entering into art with competition in mind, that should be common sense.

>>5182393
talent is someone who had the right resources in life to succeed
supportive parents, stability in life, coming across the right teachers who were able to give you the right information at the right time
not surrounded by crabs

>>5185906
thanks, it's my first time capping desu

>>5186377
So its still something that cannot be changed retroactively and still completely out of your own control.

>>5186403
The past may suck, but it's dead forever. Not much point in thinking about it at all.

>>5182447
The reason you won't find artists who started late is not because it's impossible, but because by that point you are going to give up at the slightest difficulty, because you have likely already decided its too late, and that you are too old. Also you wont find many famous artists who started late because at that point who wants to build a whole career from scratch in a competitive industry at the age that they should already be settling into something? It's not impossible by any means, just draw a lot, like if you were a kid. Don't use your adult brain to overthink shit and ruin any chance you have of getting good.

>>5185279
This is like mid tier beg just learning how to render. You're fucking shading with black and the entire thing makes it look like it's made out of clay. Pick up some books and stop sucking your own dick

>>5185764
Legendary thread

>>5185764
Honestly the sketch ain't even bad, it's just not that good

>>5186427
point to one thing it did right

>>5186410
Read this first point >>5185942

>>5186510
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

>>5184522
Lmao this is wild. Thank you for sharing.

>>5186233
You discount the damage you yourself are doing by being discouraging. If they try and fail, they'll be hurt. If they don't try, they'll fail by default, and will suffer the regret of of having never made an attempt.

>>5183755
Not him but I hate your line of thinking. Everyone learns at their own pace and most do not make progress everyday. There are fatasses that tell themselves the same fucking thing since they are not like the exceptional individual that drops 90 pounds in 3 months. Fuck your survivor bias bullshit. Practice is a tried and true method in almost every factor of life.

>>5186525
>Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
ayyyyy lmao

>>5186542
>There are fatasses that tell themselves the same fucking thing since they are not like the exceptional individual that drops 90 pounds in 3 months
Where did this 3 month come from? We were talking in 2 years period and why do you rush to put the example in the same light with fat fuckers who lie to themselves again equating it to the no draw /ic/ shitposter.

Literally ANYONE that is actually putting work in losing weight will manage to lose weight in 2 years, its biologically impossible that this doesn't happen in such a period of time if they are in fact putting the work.

However in art this is not the case, there are several people who also work regularly in art and do their best yet go nowhere, this is extremely prevalent and you never get to see it because no one is interested in failures. And the moment someone dares to ask why people immedaitely discards all their efforts.

>>5186643
God I hate fat people

>>5186643
>However in art this is not the case, there are several people who also work regularly in art and do their best yet go nowhere
Define, "their best". People keep saying this word but I don't think they know what it means. It's like they think they can just escape the box they're stuck in by drawing 10,000 low quality low effort drawings.
You need to actually think when you draw anon. It's not even complex shit, it's just basic intuition and going "hmmmm maybe i should try this?"

>>5185632
desu I love seeing DKs getting btfo/roasted

>>5185764
>>5185333
>>5185339
>>5185500
>>5185507
>>5185509
>>5185582
>>5185603
>>5185623
>>5185627
>>5185632
>>5185764
>>5185906
>>5186440
>>5186661
Pure seethe, pyw losers. His art isn't half bad, considering the timeframe he was talking about.
>>5185764
The envy reeks in this thread, no one has the confidence to imagine that a guy who sketched in his free time for two years is better than them after all the work they put into this, truly pathetic.

>>5186661
Oh I kno u from PerC, youre the bitch who always tries to appear smart, pyw and time you've been doing art for

>>5186658
>Define their best
That's the WHOLE point of the thread which you apparently omitted, the best of someone, as in how much return they get out of their effort is extremely different from person to person. Two people can put the same amount of work and get extremely different results despite both trying, and this gap just grows larger and larger with time.
>Have you tried thinking?
Sure, people who are in a rout never stop and try that for a second even once. Fuck off with your low effort crab shitposting.

>>5186687
Not those anons but going from anon's examples, he's a mid-beg at best.
>inb4 it takes one to know one
Yes.

Claiming to be superior than most artist who have been drawing for more than a decade, is quite the stretch.
Well, of course, if the anon wanted to bait, he completely succeeded

>>5186697
who? take your meds, schitzo

>>5186687
lmao no one wishes they had his /beg/ tier level. he talked high shit and got btfo, get over it

>>5186687
Quit coping and practice bitch. Only reason you're defending that is because you think you just might be worse and your ego is wounded

>>5186698
>That's the WHOLE point of the thread which you apparently omitted, the best of someone, as in how much return they get out of their effort is extremely different from person to person.
My point is that you cannot just expect to draw better if you're drawing /beg/ scribbles for 10 hours. You need to do a few high quality drawings where you challenge yourself.
>Fuck off with your low effort crab shitposting.
I'm not shitposting, I'm telling the truth and I'm 100% serious. If what you're saying is true though then you're just admitting to being inferior. I think we're equals though and that even the shittiest /beg/ has potential to draw.

>>5186698

>>5186687
I did post my work you retard, however I’m not an attention whore like that kid so just scroll up and eventually you’ll find a small gouache thumbnail with actual shading. Have fun :D

>>5186377
absolutely this. Whenever I see some child prodigy, you always see a good home in the background, very supportive parents that put money into their child endeavors and decent education that doesn't heap more stress on top of them. >>5186403 No its not something you can change, but you'll just have to work harder if/when you get out of a shitty home situation. I am what you would call "talented" but I straight up didn't have a fucking table to draw on for the majority of my teens.

>>5185339
wow, from where does this guy buys his cigars? they are huge

>>5186743
t. drawing made by a beg

>>5186727
pyw

>>5186712
These are mid beg drawings surely enough, but the reactions to his claims are absolute cringe and say more about the people reacting than about him.

>>5186842
t. comment made by a nondrawer

>>5186758
If you're talking about this
>>5185784
Then I've got to say that you're pretty delusional. Post one picture where the skin goes straight from grey to pink on an old man. ONE. Your comic sketches are absolute beg tier and your have no right to talk.

>>5186727
Psychopath detected. I see you, I know who you are :)

>>5186971
>this entire post
OH NO NO NO NO NO

>>5186971
Not that anon, but pretty sure he's talking about about the the small painting of a black-haired man holding a shiny ball, a bit further up.
Forget that though. Here's the real question. Why are you sucking this guy's cock so much? Are you him? Do you feel personally attacked in some way because you know your work is inferior to his? Or is it just run of the mill trolling?
I simply can't fathom what you gain from tonguing this man's anus so lovingly, to the point you're now putting down official disney concept art in an effort to uplift amateur work. You're either very delusional or deeply dishonest.

>>5186948
HA

>>5187006
Not that anon, but if you think that "official disney concept art" is what everybody should strive towards then you're the one tonguing anuses here.

>>5187006
>>5186990
samefag

>>5187055
Retard, the point is that's it's clearly better than some underachiever amateur shit. Are you intentionally missing the point?

>>5187055
>>5187056
samefag

>>5182393
>They won't learn fundies through just this
They naturally pick them up without having to study like an autist who hates drawing

>>5183522
>tfw too smart to exist
Ultra cringe. I bet you have below average proficiency in all of those fields

>>5186377
Okay fag... those are excuses, having the right resources mean shit when you give them to a retard and someone who puts the effort to learn only needs a fucking pencil and paper

>>5182393
Gigacope. Talent is absolutely true and talented people can produce high quality paintings after only a few months of practice. Of course every spirit is malleable and you can develop your natural talents to a high degree no matter where you started, but some people are gifted with natural inclinations that allow them to reach expertise within a very short time. Van Gogh didn't start painting until his late 20s. He picked up the brush and learned to create masterworks within a very short timeframe, pic related was created after only a few years of first starting painting. He produced over 2000 paintings within one decade and then died. He was able to do this because of natural talent. This truth is uncomfortable, but you must understand your limitations as much as you must understand your talents.

>>5184570
Van Gogh was incredibly talented, one of the best of all time. He is considered so with merit, not for trivial reasons. There is some excuse in not being able to appreciate this because you probably grew up looking mostly at digital art, but if you ever get the chance, try to see van Gogh IRL. Starry Night is something completely different if you experience it with your own eyes, a gigantic painting that glisters in natural light and will make you understand that van Gogh was a genius when it comes to color theory and strokes.

>>5187376
Step back though and be honest, is it really? Or is it just that he’s a personality of interest that draws you to it? There is no shame in that, no one is immune to it entirely. But I’m serious, if you had never seen it before and it got posted on beg you would cringe at it. If you went to a uni and it was hung on the wall, you would cringe at it. You would not be dazzled by the spectacular brush work and colour. You wouldn’t even think about it. I don’t even think Van Gogh was awful, but I just don’t really get the hype

>>5187388
The only thing I cringe at is your pride. A van Gogh wouldn't be posted to /beg/ because /beg/ is full of failed digital artists. Half the glory in van Gogh is in his use of traditional mediums. The hype lies in precisely this, 100 years of art history didn't revere van Gogh without reason. To understand more acutely, reflect on the impressionist movement and what it aimed to do: to capture not only that which is painted, but also the psyche of the artist while he was painting it. Concretely for the medium this means you do no longer try to replicate a realistic depiction of what you are painting and as such the way in which you use colors and strokes resembles this. You are not actually seeing a starry night, you are seeing a multitude of brush strokes and colors that all work with one another to reflect the colors and light in a captivating fashion. And of course you need to see it in person. Shadows, highlights, the illusion of form. These are things which are not captured by photographs. I used to think similarly to you, then I want to a museum and I do not lie when I say my entire understanding of non-realist art changed. I finally got "it". All the greats and abstract painters of history, they are 10 times if not 100 times better in person than through photographs. Because they all understand a painting is not two dimensional, it exists in time and space just like a sculpture would, and this is half the beatuy.

>>5182393

>>5187417
>reflect on the impressionist movement and what it aimed to do: to capture not only that which is painted, but also the psyche of the artist while he was painting it
that is not in any way what impressionism was about

>>5187417
>I just farted
>oops oh no here I go again

People who deny the existence of natural talent are mentally ill.

>>5187447
Is this from something by Takahashi Hidebu?

>>5187357
2000 paintings literally contradicts your fucking point...
the guy put the effort in and that's what made him good

>>5187491
yes, very good manga (Yuki no matsu) but 100% gay

>>5187580
Yeah, beautiful homo porn. Her linework is kino.

>>5187593
I find it really strange for the mangaka to be a woman. I know most yaoi is made by women but this is different, in a good way.

>>5186971
I'm gonna guess you haven't seen ratatouille
Also
Here's some possibly /beg/ tier stuff I made last night

>>5182393
talent is how quickly the brain can recognize basic things and incorporate them into other stuff, ie a kid who grew up on videogames and jerking off vs a kid who grew up on a farm would be immensely different in how they utilize information, if you took both of these kids and say they've never drawn before, the farmer kid is going to be better at drawing off the bat because he's seen more in terms of real world physics and has a better mind to pick and pull different things from

talent is really just how smart someone is, sure you can be born with an athletic body but if your brain is dogshit u will never compete with someone who shares an identical build etc etc

>>5187840
actual bullshit I would bet the gamer kid is better because he probably understands 3D forms better

>>5187864
not even close

>>5184560
Is Chris-chan the only artist you know of that's drawn for decades?
If so good job but you've still got a ways go go until you're at his level

>>5182393
>No artist immediately ever picked up a pencil and just started drawing half decent shit

Nobody ever implied this is what talent was. Most people understand it as the inherent quality of faster development. Humans aren't interchangable blank slates, there are attributes you don't get to pick and choose from. Just look at the olympics.

>>5186971
I already stated it was a shitty thumbnail painting like 15 by 15 centimeters made in half an hour. However I did post my work unlike you, you unseffurable bastardcunt

>>5187799
I’m the absolute failure who posted that gouache thumbnail and man that’s a pretty cute pixel oc

>>5188050
Nice it really captured who the character is whith out changing who it is

>>5182393
>>5182398
>>5182401
>>5182404
>>5182412
>>5182415
>>5182422
>>5182424
>>5182428
>>5182433
Pyw

>>5188065
I've been on 4chan for years but I'm new to /ic/ what's pyw mean?
Also here's something I made to mess with someone with a cyndaquil pfp

>>5188078
pyw - Post Your Work. It's a common request often used to discredit / filter anonymous opinions. It's seldom aquiesced to due to fear of being ripped apart in critique by butthurt neckbeards, rightfully so or otherwise.

>>5188133
Oh thanks

>>5188164
It's also a reason to never post opinions, critique or advice of any kind. Either nobody will believe you because you're anonymous, or they make you post your personally identifiable style and doxx you.

>>5186687
I am sorry, but you have tism

>>5188208
Then all you need to do is post random stuff you'l never share anywhere else like this garbage I doodled

>>5188225
Yeah, and that'll convince them you're the second coming of da vinci

>>5182393

>>5188242
Don't need them to think you're a good artist if all you're doing is talking

>>5188065
I already posted my fucking work you retarded cunt but since you’re such a faggot here’s a portrait or some shit

>>5188078
A shitty meme about posting your work or proving your worth. Usually used as a crutch by idiots to defend shitty art

>>5188923
love the hatching, anon
blog?

>>5182424
Finally a decent non apsolutist description.

>>5188065
Here you go bro!

>>5188944
Neat, how did you do the lightning effect?

>>5188078
>what's pyw mean?
It’s part of a meme comment chain. You say a valid point, they say pyw. Your choices are
>post that retarded loomis head
>say no u
>post your actual work
If you chose post your work that’s the only one which goes any further. They will respond either
>cringing frog
>laughing frog
>fuck off to /beg/ etc etc
They may or may not take the opportunity to give you shit advice which other anons may or may not dispute. welcome to /ic/. If you can’t think of anything to post just ask if talent is real, if Asian jeans are real, post “loomis” on various random threads or just look for females and boobapost. This is 100% of the content here. Enjoy your stay

>>5188065
Okay.

>>5188974
unironically pyw

>>5188993
no u

>>5188993

>>5188065
No.

>>5188974
You forgot the best parts when some actually talented guy posts and the retard making a fuss shuts up because he’s got nothing to say lol

>>5189112
You don't win anything if your work is good. You out yourself as using 4chan, you come across as an egotist or may be accused of being one, and you have to suddenly become everyone's wise master or you're a dick.

>>5189126
Oh yeah I forgot about that lol. Hey actually there are some thread with splendid stuff like /trad/ and /draw/ and people have a great time there so idk eh

>>5182393
>started drawing as a kid
>stopped in primary school because I couldn't do one particular drawing I wanted to do
Goddamit I could have been way better than I am now. Oh well.

>>5185742
Exactly, last year I tried to get into drawing but I rage quitted because my inner voice was telling me that it was too late for me to ever get good, and that my drawings were on par with those of a 5 year old, but then I realized that I was being a huge retard, and that skill doesn't come overnight. Now I've been drawing for a month straight and I don't plan on stopping this time, I gotta cut me some slack, but not too much because then I will never improve.

>>5188974
>Asian jeans are real, post “loomis”
What?

>>5188974
based

you're a newfag if you actually post your legit work when someone asks (unless the person asking posts their own work too)

>>5187222
You say that because you're not talented at anything. I can tell you from first hand experience that your growth is going to be stunted if your living conditions are shit and you don't get the resources you need.

>talent isn’t real
cope
>talent is real and it’s why I suck and I’m eternal ngmi
also cope

>>5182393
The hardest blackpill to swallow is that talent=IQ

>>5191374
>talent=IQ
HAHAHAH. no

>>5191387
Stay mad iqlet

>>5191374
next week on ic:
>is common sense real? What if I was born without it?

>>5182393
>No artist immediately ever picked up a pencil and just started drawing half decent shit off the bat
I did
I just never went past half decent

>>5192488
pyw

>What you perceive as "talent" is really just kids that started drawing really fucking young
If your style has never looked like this you're ngmi I'm sorry to say

>>5188966
Not him. Just looks like a glow + linear blur

>>5191374
talent = they had a better life than you full of support and resources

>>5182398
You should play Borderlands 3, it has an entire quest built around "I need my morning coffee, LMAO"

>>5188935
This is a necro but here it is anon https://www.deviantart.com/fuck-disco

>>5188974
It's not /ic/ without coomers, booba, porn threads and shtiposters.

>207 posts of talent copium
Guess as long as people keep coping about talent we are going to have this exact same thread over and over again

>>5186838
mfw a 14 year old drew this

Why do you retards think age matters and not total time as a practicing artist.

>>5185500
Do you think it's a coincidence that the industrial revolution only happened after Europeans started regularly taking stimulants?

>>5185767
You were shit at drawing before you came to /ic/.
Now you're still shit at drawing, but it's /ic/'s fault.
And you have to stay here forever.

>>5185767

It doesnt take a fucking decade dipshit.

>>5188991
I like the background.

>>5196868
Thanks!

I think "talent" it's just an excuse of people that lack the discipline to do study everyday and get good. My neighbor never had "talent" for piano, he started it with 31 years old, and 10 years later he even got a degree on piano.
I'm doing something similar to him since I'm 33 year old and really want learn how draw, and judging the amount of effort he had put to learn piano I can easily learn how draw.
I think draw is awesome since don't makes noise and I can draw without annoy my neighbors.
Another thing that I find absolutely awesome is the amount of resources to learn how draw that I can find around the internet, and all I had to do is spent few hours of my day drawing.

>>5197101
See you in 2 years

>>5197101
Discipline is talent

>>5197101
dude talent is real lmao just not in the way u think. have you heard of the 9 types of intelligence? one of them is visual spatial which is art basically. it doesn't work in the way u think doe, it's not like you pick up a pencil and immediately get good, it's like you learn faster than others so you improve more. it's a bit like iq. if someone has a higher iq in one specific type of intelligence and everything else mediocre/low it means they are a genius,but this doesn't mean they're immediately good, it means they have more potential in that one field. more than anything hard work/passion matters, it beats talent when talent doesn't work hard

>>5197133
So what happens when talent do work hard as well?

>>5197111
Ah, I will take a screenshot to remember your post, Anon. I will create this exact thread with the same text in two years from here.
Let's see what will happen.

>>5197120
You have a good point. I will think about it.

>>5197133
I play the classical guitar since 2000, and I'm only good as today because I study every single day at least three hours. I remember well from when I started play the guitar back in 2000 that I paid attention on the fundamentals and studied them everyday, started to play simple things that I could grind interesting techniques, studied the theory of everything, never compared myself with other people and had a lot of fun doing something that I truly enjoyed.

I believe that the learning process of everything in life is just about discipline to work hard everyday.

I hope you guys remember me and continue lurking here.

>>5197133
The time will tell if you are right by how good I will get.

>>5197159
>Ah, I will take a screenshot to remember your post, Anon. I will create this exact thread with the same text in two years from here
If I had a dime everytime someone says something like this on /ic/ I would be a billionaire already. I already know I won't see you by then.

>>5197173
I saved that screenshot too.
Honestly, I'm happy that this board exist.

>>5182393
The word "talent" makes you come off as some little asian pretty boy fag.
"Skill" on the other hand, do you have the guts and determination to grind those skillz?

>>5197192
I'm not.

>>5197159
>You have a good point. I will think about it
Thanks I know it sounds like a shitpost but sticking with a proper learning schedule has been a really hard thing for me, especially lately

>>5197206
The blackpill is that you cannot acquire true skill without talent. You can always be mediocre however

>they say that hard work is better than innate talent
>they say that as if there isn’t most likely a genetic that makes you have a higher propensity for hard work/trial and error
Why do normoids always want to feel like they’re in control? You are not in control. You are literally a fucking chemical robot pre programmed from the get go. If you suck at drawing now chances are you’ll still suck 15 years down the line

>>5199520
FUCKING COPE

if you aren't mentally retarded there is nothing stopping you from getting good. But you are fucking lazy and would rather blame genetics for not being able to draw anything other than garbage cub furry diaper fetish OC rather than commit to fucking reading the sticky and putting idk... maybe a week on ACTUAL FUCKING PRACTICE

>>5199520
whine whine whine whine
i'll level with you sport--you're right. people are born different, and some are born with a genetic head start. now, i'm going to tell you what your daddy apparently never did: you'll have to work hard, work HARDER than those who have it a little easier, and that's unfair if you want to call it unfair, but you can reach those goals all the same. if you throw your hands in the air because of perceived unfairness and just give up, that's just a sign that you haven't even grown up yet.
now you draw me some thumbnails tonight and we'll go grab some ice cream, buddy.

>>5199903

>>5199520
>the reason I can't draw is that free will doesn't exist
I mean, maybe you're not wrong, but this is still a pretty pathetic cope.

i'm a newfag here on /ic/ in searching of enlightenment.
when you already have enough practice and enough skill, but your motivation to draw or create something is zero, what do you do anons?
i've been under the rock since august last year, abandoning my client request, my relationship with friends, and my income too.
really, i'm in dire need of advice.

>>5184505
If Umbekwe decides to learn drawning he will sure as hell make it faster than you since he doesnt spend all his time whinging on /ic/

>>5200506
>learn to dislike unproductive shit.
>learn to not rely on motivation. just get up and do it.
>have some foresight, stop jacking off/playing video games.
>understand that all the "fun" and unproductive stuff can be put off onto a cheat day where you binge it all in one day instead of staggering it across the entire week.
its a slow process but it works.