/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>5063043
they ghost me when i tell my work is above 150$, few come back asking for fixing, i tell them to fuck off

>>5063043
its a free market in an industry whose logical conclusion is that art directors (or any retard that wants something visual) will eventually just use an alexa-like ai to make the art without ever putting a tool to a canvas (and it will look good), rendering the avg artist obsolete.
get out while you can

to clarify, im not judging their work, many of these young folk are actually quite good, which doesnt help the fact that theyre fucking market standards.

also, if anyone wants to ask, ill happily consult pricing of your work, just for the sake of not drowning the market with bad pricing.

>>5063055
that might apply to pre-production art or soulless coprodesign, which you hardly want to do.

doesnt much apply to concept art and original illustration works.

The less schizo explaination for your loss of clients is due to the lack of capitalization and punctuation skills in your typing.

>>5063066
>i write the same on 4chan as i do to my clients

>>5063043
What kind of illustration are you doing? Im guessing its not magic tier stuff.

>artcel seething over the free market
lol

>>5063077
>Im guessing its not magic tier stuff.

mostly movie production art. ive done matte though so thats kinda close i guess.

>>5063080
ive got a day off let me seethe

>>5063075
Who are you quoting?

>>5063043
>commission taken by a young illustrator, she offered 5 percent of my price
that's like what? 5 dollars and you're asking 100?
what are you drawing that someone else can do for five dollars?

>>5063043
>competing for jobs with people from third world places who can live off peanuts
rip...

>>5063089
brand mascot design, a (very) wealthy client. 2k eur for work, 4,5k eur for full buyout licensing.

5 percent from 6500 eur is 325 eur.

Just move to Eastern Europe where the cost of living is lower, THEN you'll be able to undercut those other artists.

>>5063097
are you asking 6500 euro for a character? can you post your work?

>>5063043
I've seen it a lot in different industries. It says more about the client who would rather cut corners for peanuts, and then they get what they pay for. That's why I always encourage artists not to work for pennies, it hurts other artists. I'm in an art discord and they have minimum commissions that everyone votes for because of shit like this
Sometimes it turns out pretty good but it always comes back to bite the client in the ass. Let them learn a lesson.
Reminds me of Boeing hiring all those Indians to write code for that new airplane that caused 2 major crashes and killed people and now people/clients don't trust these billion dollar planes, just because the company wanted to save a few dollars.

>>5063092
>third world
I’m a “third worlder” and I couldn’t even live off twice the rate op’s being undercut by
are actual third worlders from fucking congo and shit getting into the game now

>>5063111
> can't live off 650 euro

you're not any sort of third worlder

>>5063112
I’m a slav, and not the germanised kind

>>5063100
it might be recognized or at least traceable, so no, i dont want to connect my professional life with a stupid rant on 4chan.

im asking 2k for a char (which also includes variants and revisions, as described in ce), and im asking 4,5 for full buyout licensing for the char considering client and how they will use it, how it might affect other potential clients.

>>5063104
yeah i mean ive lost some work to good clients, or at least clients that had good art directors that were fun to work it.

its generally not that terrible, but it always pisses me off seeing artists rip themselves off because theyre unaware or scared

>>5063111
afaik its usually new people into the field and theyre hardly form third world. just equate pricing from deviant art commisions for a furry faggot to huge commissions from actual clients.

>>5063118
how do i learn how much i should charge?

>>5063122
people keep saying the ethical something something guide, not sure if it’s accurate

>>5063111
>>5063112
Agreed, had a Scottish friend migrating to Thailand to grind commissions, while he was building his portfolio.

Rent : 200€
Food: Full course meals for ~2.5-4.0€
Internet : ~25€ month

The country is beautiful, he got a nice small well furnished flat, could manage most business transactions speaking english, internet is excellent.
Was spending something like 400€ a month for basic necessities, I m at thrice that in Belgium.

>>5063122
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=graphics+artist+guild+price&ia=web

>>5063122
very much depends on what work you do.

for example movie production art commisions have a pre-established market price that you can mostly only decrease.

hourly rate is something that should be referenced from other people.

also it very much depends on clients. if you do exhausting overtheweekend work some clients might give you more for that, some just dont give a fuck, so you generally charge them more. best to know your client beforehand, ask how much theyre willing to give, if they have a budget.

the very stupid and easy way (which actually ..sort of.. worked for me in beginings) might be to try and place yourself on national average income scale. where you know youre worth more than a cleaner, but probably less than a heart surgeon.

>>5063083
Well it seems like its quite high tier stuff you do them. I was of the impression that there wasnt that many actually good painters around in the business. Not talking about photobash type work here like the stuff Naught Dog does but real painting like magic or gamesworkshop type art. How is it possible for noobs to get those positions? Have the latent gen just a over abundance of ultra talented people or is it immigrants from places like india or something willing to settle for fuck all just to escape their madmax tier country?

>>5063126
> Rent : 200€

my rent for me and my partner is 110e in eastern europe and my internet is 20e/mth

man it sucks to be poor

>>5063161
do you live on a hill in ukraine?

>>5063043
I'm switching from illustration to motion graphics (in an illustrative style), in part for this reason.

The barrier of entry to be an "illustrator" is so low, and there's so much more supply than there is demand for illustration.

>>5063166
how are motion graphics better when every gdfag does them?

>>5063165
not far

>>5063158
well the commission in question is character design, not matte painting, and it was supposed to be in a quirky 'almost' 3d painterly style, plenty of people do that. the girl got the commission through an agency, i dont know how much the agency actually asked for. probably something slightly lower than me or my friends price, considering anything above 1000 is a fucking great deal for them anyway.

>>5063043
>4 euro per shooting board frame

Are you a storyboard artists? I can’t understand your British shit but that sounds like a storyboard frame.

I charge 10 USD for rough basic storyboards (minimal background) and probably 20 for something cleaned up. Is that too little? I’ve been a freelancer illustrator for three or four years

>>5063278
Not my work, but top and bottom are examples of what I’d charge 10 USD for, so in total this image would be 20 USD.

>>5063284
Where would you sell that ?

>>5063118
>it always pisses me off seeing artists rip themselves off because theyre unaware or scared
Same here. I think a lot of artists suffer from really low self-esteem and think they are only worth $0-$1, so that fucks over other artists
If you only think your work is worth pennies, then you're better off not accepting commissions at all

Anon, I'm sorry for being one of those artists. I thought i was being nice to the buyers but all it did was people taking advantage and stuff

>>5063043
the averga minimum wage in my country is 5 euros an hour. Suck my dick amerimutt

In my country wages are so low those prices seem reasonable. Get a fucking burger-flipping job you selfish cunt, it'll pay you better than getting a career over here.

>>5063336
This
You just get taken advantage of
You think people would be nicer to you since you're giving them a bargain, but the contrary isn't true. You get the absolute worst clients. You give them an inch and they take a mile. The lower paying clients are the most demoing selfish sons of bitches I've ever met.

>>5063338
stupid nigger, you have a higher incentive to charge standard rates because you don’t need a steady flow of work to live
i’m in ee, I won’t lift a finger for less than standard rate because i can afford to not work

>>5063362
I don't know what EE is but I don't care. I gotta get ahead somehow.

How much should I charge if I'm Polish?

>>5063365
easter europe
you’re not getting ahead by working for a fraction of what real humans work for, you imbecile
why the fuck would you want to do 10 jobs for 1/10 the price when you can just do one job for the normal price and work on your craft the rest of the time while waiting for the next job?
even gypsies are smarter than that

>>5063368
the same you would charge if you were american, british, or whatever
unless you’re working locally, but then you’re not competing internationally in the first place

>>5063080
It's because it's the free market that people should be aware of these things and do what they can to not fuck themselves and fellow workers. OP's issues would only be moot in a situation where prices couldn't be negotiated.

>>5063055
Stop posting this shit in every thread, you have no idea what you are talking about, you dumb NEET.

take the traditional art coompill
TAKE IT!
SWALLOW IT YOU FUCK!
ITS UNDER YOUR TONGUE I CAN SEE IT ILL FUCKING SHOVE IT DOWN THERE IF I HAVE TO

>>5063393
Kill yourself, Brian.

>>5063384
It's short-sighted subhumans that lack the basic concept of delay of gratification.
If cavemen were this stupid we never would have developed agriculture.

>>5063043
If you offer the same services 3rd worlders do and nothing more, don't be surprised when you get undercut that way.

>>5063399
shut up Grug, go throw more of your diarrhea at the other cavemen

>>5063402
Moron.

>>5063043
This is the inevitable result of capitalism. Companies are encouraged to cut costs wherever possible, regardless of possible future negative effects on the market, and people that are desperate for money will sell their work for whatever they can get rather than based on what they need. It's easy to write this off as a problem of uneducated people but in a reasonable society the buyers would recognize such low rates as being the result of uneducated and inexperienced people and would instead turn to experienced artists.
>>5063327
People have been conditioned to believe this though. Outside of artists you know, how many normies actually know the value of illustration? How many people recognize it as legitimate work?
The average person thinks art is worthless and as such new artists think that their work is worthless as well.

>>5063384
For an all mighty european you sure don't know how inflation and different currency values work. I can do what I do and do just fine. This is a competitive field. I'd rather do 10 jobs and grow my brand bit by bit than do 2 works. If I consider the pay just I'll gladly take the 10.

>>5063443
>brand
holy shit, he actually fell for the exposure meme

>>5063456
>get exposure
>get work
vs
>don't get work
>don't get exposure

Yeah I think I'll do as I am.

>>5063475
>don't get work
>improve your work
>get 10x pay for 1 work
vs
>get 10 work
>barely improve work because safe workflow > experimental
>10x more time working
just a reminder that your life has a time limiter, i'll take less work, better pay and free time over slavery

>>5063475
Most children learn delayed gratification by 5 years old. What went so horribly wrong for yoy?

>>5063515
>>5063500
>you need to charge more and work less!!!!

Hey if it works it works. In my experience artists are lazy as fuck, maybe you should ramp production up to stay competitive. I'm not changing my prices.

>>5063665
i stay competitive through low supply

>>5063665
You don't NEED to do anything. If you want to expend substantially more effort for a lower pay, then by all means keep doing what you're doing. But I will also mock you for it.

>>5063043
im a third worlder. your cultural imperialism ruined my nation. now suffer the consequences of globalism. i will undercut you amerishits until the day i die with a smile on my face and erect penis

>>5063792
Okay, enjoy living in squalor for the rest of your life.

>FUCK YOU, YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!
>I'm going to make AS LITTLE MONEY AS POSSIBLE and there's nothing you can do about it!
The state of this board.

>>5063043
Pyw

>>5063800
Post your wallet.

>>5063792
>your govt ruined my country by forcing us to live in poverty and worthless currency so i'll get back at you by continuing to work for $0.03/yr. ha! that will teach you!

How do i know you're not tricking me into raising my price to make me look like a fool and chase customers away from me ?
How do i find legit and serious people to evaluate the thing i sell.

>>5063798
Kek, contradictionary spirit are strong with those.

>No i don't want to make more money

>>5063043
This wouldn’t be a problem if you were just better than noobs

>>5063808
Have you considered doing even the bare minimum amount of research into industry standard rates?
Have you considered not being a paranoid faggot?

>>5063808
>How do i find legit and serious people to evaluate the thing i sell
you find them with marketing

>>5063393
learn to blend lol

people buy 5k+ for diamonds and they are more common than your mediocre art

>>5063823
Yeah man, i go to /aco/.
And there's a bunch of dude putting high price on shit i does not find terribly well done, and sometimes artists doing better shit than me for a meager pay.

Basically this video right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuLr9HG2ASs&t=13
cunts think that for some fucking reason writers and artists shouldn't be paid for shit. And retard newbies are willing to take shit pay, thus fucking over everyone else.

>>5063794
>>5063803

my country is not ruined financially
my country has zero niggers and yet we had BLM riots
globalism is a two way street
you preach free market
now you are outperformed
suddenly the system is unfair to you
you are a communist at heart and in disguise and that is why i will enjoy undercutting you
you will now start to reeee because i brought in politics and omit your hypocrisy
go on prove me right

>>5063860
you can enjoy undercutting me, i'll keep fixing your work for 300$

>>5063284
>>5063863
bold statement when that picture is your answer to "pyw"

>>5063860
You can make more or at least earn the same for less work.
Don't try to make it appear as a personal vendetta against firsties or whatever, you're coping for being retarded.

No amounts of 4chan post will change that, you just got jewed hard.

>>5063870
there are 32 anons in here, wtf you talking about

I’m so glad I took the STEM pill. This seems so stressful. For OP and anyone in the same boat, are there salary positions you could look into or is this all going to be freelance stuff? I’m unfamiliar with anything art related outside of gaming. I know my company has salaried full time creative roles in our game studio division.

>>5063873
What the fuck are you talking about.
I'm just saying your three ranting post won't change anything about the fact you're getting jewed and you're proud of it.

>>5063802

>>5063863
>i'll keep fixing your work for 300$

>>5063043
>lately im loosing clients.

Well, which is it anon?

>>5063895
im not that anon

>>5063085

Why do retards like you post these passive aggressive responses like this is reddit

>>5063875
Why the fuck are you on the drawing board if you don't draw or know anything about art you dumbfuck?
>>5063860
You aren't outperforming anyone, you're taking advantage of the fact that your country is a shithole to charge poverty wages from clients in rich nations so that you can continue living in poverty AND undercutting the market at the same time. If you actually had a brain you'd charge just below what westerners charge so that you'd not only be able to stop living in squalor but you'd be taking more money out of the pocket of the clients in the nations you hate. Honestly think about the things you do for more than 8 fucking seconds for the love of christ.
>>5063808
Nobody is going to evaluate what you sell. Find people at your skill level, figure out what the most they can charge is while getting their regular amount of clients, and then charge around that much. It's simple economics.

>>5063924
>If you actually had a brain you'd charge just below what westerners charge
>literally the definition of undercutting
so you are restating my point. thank you

>>5063085
Kys

>>5063943
working for 5$ when 1st worlders are charging more than 500$ isn't the same as just below

>>5063097
well if this big client is stupid enough to spend 300eur on branding which have a wide reaching impact on their business for years to come thats their problem.

just out of curiosity how many full working 'days' are you accounting for with 6.5k?

>>5063953
okay, now that you have magically set my prices and the prices of my competition in a fictional anecdotal example i have to admit that you have been right all along. i will stop shitting up this thread now. sorry everyone and goodbye

>>5063970
don't forget to drink bleach shitskin

>>5063970
You stupid nigger. I'm a third worlder too and faggots like you are ruining it for me as well. Instead of just maintaining your shithole living conditions by undercharging, you could be living like a king by charging the same, or slightly below first worlders. I hate your guts so much you have no idea. You get ripped off and is still proud of it while fucking all your peers in the process.

This third world anon makes a really compelling argument for "The Bell Curve".

>>5063978
>you could be living like a king by charging the same, or slightly below first worlders

>>5063924
>If you actually had a brain you'd charge just below what westerners charge

>>5063943
>literally the definition of undercutting
so you are restating my point. thank you

sorry, this was the last one, i pinkie promise

>>5063995
kys retarded poorfag

>>5063995
Charging 4k instead of 4.2k is hardly undercutting mate. And that's if you even decide to go that route, as you seem so adamant to do. The problem is you faggots are doing 4.2k work for 500 and are happy with it somehow.

I personally charge even more than a lot of first worlders myself. With even one job I can be very well off for months as a result.

>>5064008
That’s why I undercut losers like you lol, I want to put every other artist out of business

>>5064067
you won't

>>5064067
Yeah... you won't.

>>5064067
Shouldn't you be finding clean water or something instead of shitposting on 4chan?

>>5063860
>my country has zero niggers
Argentine?

>>5063875
>are there salary positions you could look into
There are, tho when it comes to that networking becomes an important factor. Freelancing on the other hand is easier to get into.

>>5064096
>my country is not ruined financially
no it's not argentina

>>5063792
lmao based
stupid, but based

>>5063875
Speaking as someone who has been doing this for a long time, salary positions aren't very desirable unless you can get into a big company as a senior art director or something. Otherwise you'll most likely be getting underpaid and overworked. For many of us freelance is a far better option because your payment ceiling rises considerably, at the cost of "security" that barely exists anyways since a lot of projects are seasonal or cyclical so you're constantly looking for new in house positions anyways. There's a reason a lot of great artists have decided to go for the contractor approach. It's just better.

>>5064096
>>5064113
$20 aya it’s a delusional polcuck

>>5063284
Jesus Christ I'm not agreeing with the third world anon necessarily but OP's complaints are retarded if that is his skill. Hell there are a dozen artists in the /aco/ commission thread at any given day that could "steal" his customers.

>>5063043
>>5064158

>>5063111
4 dollars an hour over here is an amazing salary

>>5064158
He clearly said not my work though? I think he just meant to show an example of what a 20 dollar drawing would be. That is, pretty bad and takes literal seconds to make.

>>5064170
if you think $20 for that is too much for that, you need to step outside your $6 enterprise on /aco/s discord

>>5064176
Maybe you should make art worth what you're charging

>>5064170
Wtf this is unironically /beg/ tier. I am an aspiring coom artist - i would be too embarrassed to post this for free in a request thread...

>>5064179
anon, I don’t even look at work you probably think pays too much

>>5063860
Fucking this
>the first world manipulates inflation rates for decades so everything is expensive on first world countries and inflating their capital internationally
>cripping economies in the third world for ages
>now turns out the third world can do as much competent work as the first world
>WTF YOU SHOULD CHARGE MORE FOR YOUR WORK!!! NOT FAIR!!!

>>5064183
Mate can you please show us what you think would be a 6k work ?
Or give us solid proof that you're in this industry.

Because i would like nothing more but to believe you.

this thread is such a waste of time, if you can sell work for 2k do it, if you cant dont do it

>itt

>>5064187
i’m not op, retard
also, he charged 2k for the work, the rest for rights
if you only charge for hands when doing commercial contract work, you’re retarded

>>5064192
Huh ... That's more or less what i charge.
Hope i'm better tho.

>>5064185
You moron, you just take the first world's people money from them by charging more. That's all there is to it. People who are hiring artists for expensive work aren't eastern europe shitholes. You charging a lot has no consequence for your third world area. In fact, it makes everything for them better because now you have a surplus of money you can spend locally.

>>5064170
That is beyond dunning kruger.

>>5064185
It’s not fair to yourself, you moron.
Outsourcing work to cheap sweatshop tier labor is exactly what the ebul first world wants, why the fuck would you want to be next chink or indian?

>>5064202
DING DING DING

Retards think themselves being exploited while fucking everyone else of their industry is them getting back at first world countries globohomo when it's exactly what globohomo wants.

>>5064170
>retards see this
>instead of thinking “wait, that’s $20, I can do that too”, hey think “haha I live in a poor economy and cannot comprehend this is worth $20, I will charge $2 for this because I am retarded and have no desire to stop being poor and create an influx of money into my economy lol”

>>5064170
>>5064192

>Sir a moment of your time please?
>I have an idea how we could cut our storyboard budget in half.
>No sir im not joking.
>I found a better contractor that charges less for the same work.
>For more work actually, he insists on cat ears and tails on all the figures but i guess it doesnt matter for the storyboards anyways.
>Understood, I will reach out to them after the 2pm meeting.

>>5064220
kek

>>5063123
It's the graphic artists guild handbook, but afaik you need to pay to have it. Pros are so closed off about how much they earn that this shit isn't common knowledge which is likely why so many people are underpricing, like what person WOULDN'T want more money for their work if they knew they could charge more.

>>5064212
This is why I stopped helping people improve at some point. I used to help a lot of people completely for free because I believed in doing some good, but then those very people I help start undercharging like complete idiots and I end up getting fucked as a result. I completely stopped doing it. Things like free mentorship if they were in a group I was in, or sharing techniques and knowledge I gathered throughout the years. Nowadays my input is pretty much "hey great work, keep it up" to pretty much anything regardless of quality and I feel sad about the good lads that could benefit from my help but it's not worth it.

>>5064220
that discord is truly a roller coaster, I have no idea how these people can exist on the same page and not question what the fuck they are doing

>>5064230
unironically pyw

>>5064230
Yo, i wouldn't be against having a mentor.

>>5064170
20 seems about right, a storyboard is supossed to read clearly not look pretty.

>>5064230
You sound like an insufferable cunt tbqf

>>5064249
I am not. In fact I'm quite friendly and I've helped many people throughout the years for nothing in return simply out of my good will and morals. I still kinda do sometimes, but certainly not to the extent I used to as I've come to understand people don't value something they get for free, including education.

>>5063080
He's seething over retards ruining the market for artists, not over the markwt itself

>>5064264
>artcel seething over competition

>>5063043
I'm still offering my commissions for free, to get my name out there and build a portfolio
When should I start charging bros? I'm not really hurting for money since I have a real job too. I'd almost enjoy never charging, doesn't money take away some of the fun?

>>5064289
Why would you fill your portfolio with free shit commissioned by other people instead of your own ?

>>5064292
To show i can do a variety of things for people other than myself
No one wants to look at a portfolio of your own masturbatory art
They want to see that you can make art well for others

>>5064289
how do you believe offering free work as a nobody to people who don’t want to pay for work is going to “get your name out there” and “build a portfolio”
what are you going to do, show the shit tier concepts you were handed by poorfags and go “and I did this for free”?
like, what sort of work do you expect to get from panhandling amateurs that is going to make someone want to give you a real job?

>>5064300
Charge them a bit. Or i don't know find other concept yourself.

I get wanting to try yourself to commission work, see if you can capture what someone else want to do.
But still, doing it for free is really not worth it, interns are paid, apprenctice are paid and so on.

>>5064300
No, they exactly want to see your masturbatory art because they want their artists to make consistent art that is characteristic and easily recognisable so they can profit from its memorability.
Who the fuck wants to hire a chameleon and then try to wrestle something unique from them?
You don’t go to a client with some retarded mishmash hodge lodge of art, you show them you can consistently produce something that fits what they need.

>>5064302
If I commission stuff more people will see my work and seek me out
I can always show people commissions and say I charged for them later
My art speaks for itself, i don't need to screech "AND I CHARGED 50 BUCKS FOR THIS, DOESNT THAT MAKE IT BETTER?"
thats pretty autistic, just commission for free for a while if you're beginning
Its less stressful too

>>5064309
Interns aren't always paid
>>5064310
You misunderstood what I said, and they don't want someone who is unable to step out of their own little world and style of art, they want you to manifest THEIR vision, they don't want to be your vessel for manifesting your own image
They're paying you anon

>>5064320
the state of /ic/ plebs

>>5064320
you don’t get it, you’re making shit pieces
i don’t even have to see them, I know you do because you’re taking the equivalent of the average drawthread request an making smt art because li work for free and get “clients” who’s wouldn’t pay you anyway
you might think people will just judge your art on a technical level, but they won’t, they’ll just see garbage and an uninspired artist

>>5064202
>>5064199
That's retarded. In my country wages go from $15 an hour in the US, never mind Europe, to around $10 a DAY!

Things are cheap over here. I'm getting a comfortable surplus and still charging around half of what first worlders do. It's win-win. If things weren't so unfair for us maybe things would be a bit more fair for you. Oops.

>>5064329
Nah its good and I don't need your approval to continue making art for people for free

>>5064326
>let me, a person who never got paid for art, tell you what people want when they pay you
only two kinds of clients want that: cheap individuals and people hiring juniors, assistants and other assembly line tier workers
take my word for it, the higher you charge, the more likely the commissioner is going to go “you’re the artist just work your magic” because they want the patron experience, not someone to shine their shoes, and the best paying positions ALWAYS expect you to be able to make your own creative decisions and will never hire a chameleon

>>5064330
I'm third worlder charging 150$ for one day commission work (it usually takes 3 days but I work on multiple commissions at the same time so on average it would be close to 10 hours each commission), 4 of those a month is enough to get me and my dog through the month

>>5064329
pyw

>>5064320
No wonder this is a memeboard. You fuckers are more retarded than /biz/.

>>5064330
I’m a third worlder, retard, I’m trying to make you understand that things would be better for YOU if you charged more.
>working less for more money is retarded

>>5064341
>let me, a person who has never made art for another person, charge you for my very commission
This is how retarded you sound

>>5064349
>trying to get /begs/ to embarrass themselves and destroy their reputations by charging for their first commissions
>accuses others of being retarded
Wew lad

>>5064354
>>5064356
is this bait or what?

>>5064356
I charged 50$ for my first commission to buy csp

I know /ic/ isn't the best place to ask someone to post things he does.
People who ask that only looks for way to attack someone through ad hominem and Raphael himself could come and post that some guy taking internet feud too seriously would mock him.

But i'd really like if there's one genuine guy here to post what he sold and so on.
Fuck all the fags above trying to protect a virtual ego, appearing smug or superior to people they've never met.

Shit, help a /beg/ brother out who just want to get a better idea of what this industry is like.
I'll even post my shit if you care.

>>5064360
And here you are

>>5064365
Yeah, got a problem with that?

>>5064343
Depending on the quality of your work, you could be doing these for up to 600 and now instead of 4 a month you only need 1 a month to get by, and the rest is surplus. Either you'll make more or you work less, but you only need 25% of your former demand to make exactly what you used to before.

>>5064367
Just saying i don't really care about your opinion if your biggest accomplishment was ripping off some rube for 50 bucks and you're still browsing /ic/ but claiming to be a professional
Just not someone I want to emulate lmao
But go ahead, pyw

>>5063924
Who said I don’t draw? I literally draw daily. I just don’t work in art so I don’t know how the field works save for what happens in my company.

>>5064361
no one’s going to post their work in a thread that’s essentially bitching about rajesh and raul working for free
op posted a sample of what work is worth and got attacked and one retard actually put in the effort to make a screencap to mock him
now imagine posting something that can actually be traced to you

>>5064372
https://securesha.re?#u=ec1c61689922051c0f61f45b4c0c077e.bin&p=OdhEeYqrOyCRoVCJCf75LwEM8U6xkhPJuPV9K36SLck
This is a commission I did for 150$, yes I'm both the 50$ for the csp and the third worlder selling commission for 150$, every month of so I up the price a bit

>>5064360
just wondering. what would a 50 dollarino commission look like?

>me not realising that there's some kind of argument going on and clicking a link that says it's going to self destruct after I clicked it
Uhhh whooops?

>>5064352
And I'm telling you I'm doing fine. More than fine. I don't do it for the money, and I'm progressively making more despite raising my prices. Cry me a river.

>>5064386
How was it ?

>>5064386
Yeah, don't click random links especially in 4chan. I'm not clicking that shit.

>>5064390
I panicked and accidentally closed the window and now it says it can't get it. Why am I so retarded?

Just make shit for mombies. I get paid $500 to paint retarded sounding kid names with shit like a football and a Pikachu on canvas to hang in a room so little Jaeyden will know his mom Jessalyn REALLY loves him. Facebook mom and neighborhood groups are where the money is at. I had to cap new commissions the first week of December because the Christmas rush was so crazy.

>>5064384
https://securesha.re?#u=ba9791e3021f5badd234a20581e59957.bin&p=i5SeM3yBnLEjFrjclLWkgZx3lC0oIZePlRECYMXJh5M
Pretty bad

>>5064393
Kek

>>5064388
>I'm progressively making more despite raising my prices
>despite
nigger, you’re making more BECAUSE YOU’RE RAISING THE PRICE
that is literally what I’ve been saying the entire time, you dumb fucking nigger monkey

Opening a shit thread like this and refusing to PYW after 175 replies should be a bannable offense~

>>5064395
cant see jack shit

>>5064388
What is wet

>>5064395
Is that yours ?
Yeah, i could see 50 dollars there, like i wouldn't pay myself, but i can imagine people paying for it.

>>5064401
only one person can access it, then it’s deleted
he doesn’t want the entire thread to see it

>>5064388
Water is wet

>>5064401
someone got it first

>>5064400
>just pyw
refer to >>5064170

>>5064395
Can't you just make a sketch or something and post it like normal?

NOW I CAN'

>>5064400
this

>>5064380
Not clicking that link faggot, post jpg

>>5064400
I feel like it should be more fair.
Anyone posting "pyw" should also post his work, if he doesn't he gets banned too.
That would prevent anyone from ripping the work he asks to see in bad faith.

WHY DID I CLOSE THE WINDOW AM I RETARDED?

>>5064420
Maybe a bit, just for tonight.
Still love you brother.

>>5064423
I love you too anonpai let's be friens

>>5064418
You know the faggots that call pyw will never post their own work right? They either backpedal or just start coping like mad.

>>5064428
Yeah, but that would prevent them from doing so at least.
it should be a rule.

>>5064356
>/beg/
>destroy their reputation
>first commission
???

>>5064413
redlining for beg

>>5064412
op claims to be "in the industry" making 6k per project
posts a /beg/ sketch
gets made fun of

and this is your defense? that means you dont have any confidence in your work. simple as that.

>>5064437
First impressions matter more than anything else
Healing a shitty first impression is 100 times harder than just making a good first impression

>>5064444
On the internet, you change your nicknames and boom, disappeared.

>>5064442
is that the new CSP timelapse update? give it to me anonpai....

>>5064448
yes, pretty sick

>>5064443
that’s a storyboard, retard
posted as an example of $20 work
twenty dollars
are you retarded?

>>5064449
and I'm glad I'm not the only one who spends loads of time redrawing.

I once redrew one sketch for like 10 hours

>>5064451
>>5064192
>>5064220

>>5064452
yeah, specially hands, i often use 3d models to speed up some stuff

>>5064460
hands are just -____- but I think the most annoying thing are clothing folds

>>5064443
you’ve never seen a storyboard, have you?

>>5064469
not them, but I always thought that storyboards looked like pic related or https://www.behance.net/gallery/42634905/ILM-Artcontest-Storyboards-Keyframe
So I guess it come afterwards?

>>5064397
If you thought I was going to charge low forever then you're the retarded one. I literally went to commerce school, just shut the fuck up already.

>>5064479
What happens when you consume anime.

>>5064469
OP complaints about losing clients to 3rd world shitters that "charge too little"
OP posts a storyboard that he charges $20 for
OP gets made fun of because the /aco/ commission thread has literally dozens of shitters that can do the same as OP within minutes

dont try to strawman your way around it. its not about being a storyboard. its the fact that OP is divorced from reality concerning how rare his skill is. OPs delusions brought him into a position where $5 furry shitters are the competition that makes him butthurt.

i repeat.
POST
YOUR
WORK

>>5064484
Well in regular art they always talked about thumbnailing compositions

>>5064490
Holy cope

>>5064479
That is a keyframe. It comes after during the animation stage.

>>5064496
I see, thanks for telling me! I really need to learn more about animation I think!

>>5064490
god, you’re a dumb nigger
storyboards are not meant to look pretty, they’re meant to be made quickly and accurately, you save money by paying an efficient artist to finish it quickly so the film can be shot as soon as possible
honking you can judge the value of the work visually just shows how much of a retarded jobless nigger you are

>>5064511
You think the retards here actually know anything about art? All they know is anime and coom. Another reason why this shithole is a meme board.

>>5064496
>It comes after during
wat?

>>5064524
after one and during the other, learn to read

>>5064531

>>5064558
>do I suck your dick now or after you fuck my ass
>after, during my call to your mom

>>5064594
Without the comma the meaning change completely

>>5064594

>>5064524
>>5064531
>>5064558
>>5064594
>>5064607
Forgive me, anons. I was phone posting, and I was too lazy to switch to the keyboard with symbols.

>>5064612
It's aight b.

>>5064612
just pulling your leg anon. this board takes itself too seriously weeew

If you oppose socialism in any way you aren’t allowed to complain about employment

>>5064621
There's other ideology opposing capitalism than socialism.
But otherwise, it's a particularity of this field to have weirdos working for free and be proud of it, really fucks up the supply and demand

>>5064629
>There's other ideology opposing capitalism than socialism.
name one

>>5064631
Can i say communism ?

>>5064616
If only the board took art seriously.

>>5063043
Maybe you should help these artists get better work so they can compete without having to undercut you.

>>5063883
Reverse image search says that isn't your wallet, faggot. Now post the real one.

>>5064631
Fashionism

Imagine being bootyblasted that kids who still enjoy drawing use art as a side hustle because they are going to draw anyway so why not monetize it?

Find a niche, an agent or lower your prices, faggot. When a market is saturated, prices lower. Art is not exempt from this and pricefixing will never work for easily accessible peer-to-peer goods as long as amatuers can make halfway decent work.

Art is a hobby for me and I am going to do it whether I get paid to or not, so if I snatch a few cheap commissions along the way to supplement my full time job, I am going to do it and you can die mad about it.

>>5064743
he’s not talking about commissions

>>5064443
>thinking a storyboard is "/beg/ work"
Absolute fuckin' state of this board
This shit and the dumbass room temperature IQ gorilla nigger working for pennies to "get back at duhhhmerikkka", or in other words fucking himself over and letting companies profit off him for jack shit and basically cutting off his nose to spite his face, makes me want to kill myself. I can't handle this much stupid, I just can't.

>>5064696
I am too poor to have a wallet, anon.

>>5064067
holy shit how can anyone be that stupid....
you're ruining it for everyone and not even getting enough money yourself.....

fucking retard holy fuck

I sell my stuff at $10 cus that's all people would pay for it, I started at $20 but no one would pay for it, slashing that price was incredibly demoralizing and humiliating
Don't worry guys I'm not undercutting you and I doubt all the other losers selling a piece at $10 are either, if I was swamped with work I'd instantly raise the prices without a doubt

>>5064696
Fine. You got me.
>>5064753
Why are you trying to rp as me anon?
You're right, but its rude to assume.

>>5064900
Jesus Christ, anon.

>>5063043
>NO DONT COMPETE WITH ME
>PUT YOURSELF IN A POSITION TO FAIL IN COMPETITION WITH ME
>DONT JUST VALUE YOUR WORK AT A VALUE THAT GIVES YOU CUSTOMERS CONSIDERING SOMEONE AT YOUR EXPERIENCE LEVEL SCARE THEM AWAY WITH BIG PROFESSIONAL NUMBERS

>>5064916
Working long hours for below minimum wage is not 'competition' it's slave labor, and you are willingly subjecting yourself to it.
Giving people commissions practically for free does hurt artists as a whole, but it hurts the individual artist doing it far more.
So enjoy poverty, retard.

lol expected the thread to die by morning lol

>>5064916
thats the fucking thing. many of these artists are good, like really good. theres absolutely no reason for them to be undercuting other than being clueless or scared.

id much rather compete with someone on work and get told my work is simply less likable than have someone with a high level of quality undercut by price.

that doesnt make sense, and it generally lowers pricing clients make on artists.

also this thread speaks for itself. majority of people here talk about commissions from deviantart fags.

i thought we were talking about big boy commission from big clients. either big agencies or direct clients.

>>5065175
OP *claims* to be a big artist that does projects for companies for $4k+ a pop, but the only thing he has posted is a lower-than-/beg/ sketch for which he charges $20... and then wonders why there is so much better and cheaper competition.

>>5065183
that wasnt me anon. i already said im not posting my work before that

>>5064890
You're not the type of person OP is complaining about don't worry. The problem are the people good enough to be charging thousands but who are charging in the low hundreds instead.

>reee I am not getting paid one gorillion for my average drawing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you know how much Akira Toriyama gets paid for Dragon Quest designs?
During early DBZ he got paid $6000 per page of the manga.
The difference between Toriyama and you? Nobody even cares about you. You might be okay and do polished acceptable pieces, but at the end of the day, you're not good enough and commissioners can find one trillion other guys as good as you or close who will do it for much less.
That is the way the market works. Either be real elite or stick with the low prices.

>>5063792
You will continue to live in squalor by charging pennies.

>>5063043
Your best bet is to go live with where they are and then undercut them.

Lmao people here are really buttblasted at the idea of making more money.
They may just rationalize the fact that they're more or less being jewed or batshit scared of charging too much ( Internet attack like vulture delusional people and today we're harsh on anyone who does not consider himself garbage ), but still.
Only in the art world do we have weirdos who insists on not being paid, or retards who thinks getting paid less by foreigner somehow make them smarter.

It's a mental thing, people still do not completely consider art a real job, and this mentality permeates onto artist, coupled with some rare retards made fun of on r/badartists and you have a bunch of beginner with absolutely no self esteem thinking they're trash that their art is trash and that somehow asking to be paid as much as they can is being greedy or unprofessional.

>>5065445
the difference is primarily that he made dragon ball almost 50 years ago, you’re retarded if you think he’d get that much now

>>5064999
yeah well some money is better than no money. not everyone is good enough to live off their work unfortunately

>>5065171
but the op specifically says 'noobs' and 'students' as in people who aren't in a position to ask for much money. they are trying to make a name for themselves and while it may seem to you that they can ask for more money, they have probably tried and failed at doing exactly that and their self esteem is just at that level

>>5065445
>$6000 per page
I'd be ready to believe 6000 JPY maybe but $6000 per page, especially back then, I find that hard to believe. If you publish a comic in France with a good editor (and we're talking about an existing and old market with a lot of money running in it), you can get paid something like 75 000$ (CAD) which is enough to give you a year to work on the next time/book/volume. That would be 12.5 pages according to your idea of a good price, I'm not talking American capeshit comics here either. We're talking anywhere between 50 to 100 pages.

>>5065725
No you retard, working for less than minimum wage is not better than not working at all, your time is worth more than that.
Despite what you may believe, people ARE willing to pay reasonable rates for half-decent work.
Instead of doing 5 $20 commissions you couldndo 1 $100 commission and use the rest of that time however you see fit.
What's more, the people that expect to pay $20 for a commission are also the ones that tend to be the most entitled, the rudest, and difficult to work with.

>>5063043
10 eur per work?
4 eur?
what the fuck a minimum wage burger flipper earns 10x more.

>>5065765
>another retard who doesn’t understand what a frame in a storyboard is yet feels compelled to comment

>>5065782
I think you're confused about what that post is saying.

>>5065782
You started off talking about illustration. Storyboarding isn't illustration and is more animation imo

>>5064999
I enjoy doing commissions for free if I like the person or for a company if it gives a voice to progressive values and underprivileged peoples
Why wouldn't you help causes you believe in? People donate to groups, why not donate your artistic skills?

>>5065789
>>5065797
he’s saying he charges 10 euros per frame, but clients ask him to lower to 5, and a recent job eventually went for 4
PER FRAME
not per “work”, the work consists of many frames
learn to fucking read

>>5065803
HAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH
imagine believing in donation because people are good

>>5065803
Charity isn't the same as working for peanuts.

>if it gives a voice to progressive values
Kill yourself, you fucking faggot.

>>5065797
>storyboarding is animation
this board lel

>>5065816
>learn to fucking read
Interesting advice, let's give that a try:
>this is becoming the norm, for a commercial key visual that takes someone six hours to make going as low as 10 eur per work.

Now tell me, where in that sentence did the OP said he charges 10 euros per frame?
Dumb nigger.

>>5065816
Charity is giving without getting anything in return
I don't make art for peanuts, I make art for free
Its nice to have a job that pays a living wage that gives me time and flexibility to pursue art with out desperately begging for money
Its all about money with you guys, money, money, money. There's more to life than money. But capitalism brainwashes retards like you into thinking money is important at all

>>5065809
>learn to fucking read
Interesting advice, let's give that a try:
>this is becoming the norm, for a commercial key visual that takes someone six hours to make going as low as 10 eur per work.

Now tell me, where in that sentence did the OP said he charges 10 euros per frame?
Dumb nigger.

>>5065832
keep doing art for free while others use your work to make them money, can you give me some contact info btw?

>>5065836
literally the next sentence where he clarifies the price is PER FRAME, you illiterate fucking nigger
READ

>>5065832
>Charity is giving without getting anything in return
Yes anon, very good, that is what charity means.

>I don't make art for peanuts, I make art for free
Then that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, you mongoloid.
This thread is about undercharging, not doing charity work.

>Its nice to have a job that pays a living wage that gives me time and flexibility to pursue art with out desperately begging for money
Its all about money with you guys, money, money, money. There's more to life than money.
Nigger, we are talking about people who are trying to make a living through art.
Slit your wrists.

>>5065832
>Its all about money with you guys, money, money, money. There's more to life than money. But capitalism brainwashes retards like you into thinking money is important at all
Somehow capitalism brainwashed people like you into thinking this, thinking that artist doesn't need money or that money is contradicting passion and art.
Everyone but them must be paid, it's absolutely retarded.

You pay the cashier, you pay unemployed people, you pay everyone for everything but the guy that paint your character for your videogame, that draws the r34 you bust a nut to, your youtube banner, your comics book, your story board, him and only him must not be paid ?

>>5065803
blog?

>>5065840
I do it for organizations and people that help spread values i care about
I don't do it for ones that just make money off it

>>5065841
Oh you mean this sentence?
>ive had clients ask me if i can go as low as 5 eur per shootingboard frame

If I say "can you give me a blowjob?" does that mean you have given me a blowjob?
I can't wait to see how you try to worm your way out of this fuckup.

>>5065842
Maybe if you made charitable art people would see you're a good person and want to give you more commissions and pay you
If you just care about money
The people in this thread need to step back from the tree and look at the forest
Art isn't about money, and if you try to make it about money you're going to be a bitter angry person
Get a real job and pursue art for the joy of it, for free. it will let you make art you care about, for people and organizations that you care about and share values with, without having to be a greedy snob
Just a little advice from someone who has known a lot of people like you and seen how they end up

>>5065851
what the fuck are you even saying, retard?

>>5065859
CHARITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS THREAD
KILL YOURSELF, YOU MENTALLY HANDICAPPED SIMPLETON

>>5065848
I'd never dox myself on 4chan. If you spend a lot of time on art related subreddits you've seen my work

>>5065859
fuck off, i'll keep making money out of my art, i didn't spend 15 years getting where i'm at for nothing

>>5065861
Learn to read, nigger.

>>5065863
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YOURE FUCKING SRGRFO GTFO HERE RETARD

>>5065846
Art needs to be above capitalism or else its not art, just corporate branding
Are you a marketer or an artist?
Do priests charge for their services? Use your head and get outside of the capitalist mental prison you're living in
Its nice out here once you figure out how to escape

>>5065868
no, what does your retarded question have to do with the fact that he was talking about storyboard frames, not illustration?
refer to >>5063284

>>5065863

>>5065871
I sincerely hope you're baiting.

>>5065872
That isn't the OP, you fucking idiot.
Jesus Christ, what is it even like being this stupid?

>>5065864
I can't force you to do anything, just giving advice from someone who's met people like you many times
You know deep down you're not an artist if you're charging for your work, more of a technician
Which is fine, just don't complain about art losing its magic

>>5065879
of course i am a technician, is that a problem, can you be any more retarded?

>>5065875
I hope you and the other people here are baiting
Art isn't about money, this should be moved to /biz/ if you want to talk about begging for money from capitalists that don't give a shit about you

>>5065877
literally everyone except understood op, retard
neck yourself

>>5065879
You're a free technician, a slave.

>>5065879
>you're not an artist if you're charging for your work

>>5065884
art has been about money way before you were born

>>5065881
As long as you don't claim to be an artist there isn't a problem
Didn't realize this board was called "technicianwork/critique"
I mean, almost thought it was called "strategies for begging rich people for scraps", based on this thread

>>5065887
Try again in English, turd worlder.

>>5065884
Art always was about money, the greatest work you see in museum were done by artists who were paid for it.
Because otherwise we'd all be chasing a wage in a office, but "escaping" ourselves while drawing furry banners for our leftist furry friend youtube channel like you seems to do.

What a load of horsecrap you remind me of those jap sleeping at work.
You bought into everything, you're absolutely deluded.

>>5065895
neither it is art/critique, gtfo redditor and neck yourself already

>>5065893
>>5065898
Its not real art if its about money, sorry
I'm not a leftist, I'm a progressive
There's a difference
People on the left and right want to maintain the status quo while tugging at horizontal change, progressives want to move everyone forward, even if it means making the people at the top take one step down so everyone beneath them can take ten steps up
Do you even know what the word progress means?

>>5065907
>Its not real art if its about money
Get me the source of this, I'm not trusting some anon on that one chief, give me the experts, because a lot of art critiques disagrees on that one on art galleries that I've been, you'll need to bring some proof or else I might as well say Earth is flat and leave it at that

>>5065907
Do you have any inclination at all of how simplistic and childish your worldview is?
No, of course you don't, I doubt if you have any capacity for introspection at all.
As others have said repeatedly: kill yourself.

>>5065912
If you need "experts" to give you all your thoughts and give their stamp of approval before you allow yourself to think you'll definitely never be an artist haha

>>5065913
I have shown that I have more capacity for introspection than you do, as anyone reading our conversation knows

>>5065918
you're nobody to me, why would i believe
this shit
>>Its not real art if its about money
without any argument defending it, go back to your reddit bubble

>>5065921
Laughable.
Kill yourself, you ignorant buffoon.

>>5065922
I've made the argument clear. If you refuse to think about it without some famous art critic giving you permission, not only will I be understood to help you but you never be able to help yourself
You should get off 4chan and talk to real people if you think what I'm saying is outlandish. A vast majority of people think just like I do
Capitalistic insect thinking is dying. People are starting to have souls again

>>5065918
If you need pens and tablet you'll never be an artist, an artist is about feeling the change of the world and representing the universe inside your head.
Like a free bird the artist soul fly through this world in search of its beauty regardless of material things he leave behind, fly, fly, fly !
What is being an artist? Being an artist is first and foremost being! You can not, paint, write, draw, play, act or sculpt, but you can still be an artist!

What does an artist needs pants for? Nothing, but restrictive matters.
Sometimes i look a hobo in the eye, and i see, i see ... an artist.

>>5065934
>because a lot of art critiques disagrees on that one on art galleries that I've been
>You should get off 4chan and talk to real people if you think what I'm saying is outlandish
?

>>5065932
I accept your concession

>>5065943
Stop posting off topic shit and kill yourself.

>>5065762
im going to disagree, not everyones art is worth getting a 'minimum wage' yearly salary in commissions. if someone who practiced drawing for 2 years was competing with someone much better, say an 8 year professional, how can he ask for the same amount? the market is oversaturated with amateur artists, nobody is going to pay 100 dollars for a 20 dollar piece, they dont give a fuck how many hours it takes since art is about the finished product. maybe your art too isn't worth however much you are asking, else this thread wouldn't be a problem right?

>>5065940
You really don't need tools to have an imagination
Thats just the first step to being an artist, expressing it through a medium is the other step
Doesn't matter what medium
Could be painting, could be writing, could be fashion, could be journalism, could be activism, could be poetry, could be coding, could be culinary arts, it could even be a medium you invent yourself

>>5065956
What do you think "minimum wage" means, retard?

>>5065941
Art galleries exist to make money off masquerading as art

>>5065961
Stop stop, your mind is limiting you, magnifying what you think is magnifyable.
The greatest artist i've seen was an employed man in a Aldi shop, filling the pasta alley with such speed it made my heart shiver.

That's why i wept, i wept when i learnt he was paid minimum wage.

>>5065809
per frame of what? illustrations don't have frames. If you mean for storyboarding 10 euros per board frame isnt bad.

>>5065824
it actually is, storyboarding is basically making rough drawings for animation layouts

>>5065968
O tortured soul.
O artistic spirit destroyed by vile money again.
For this boy of 19 years of age
Saw his work perverted in an impotent rage
Again an artist ever dead
Killed by money oh it maeks me see red

>>5065968
If he was a true artist money nor lack of money would affect him

>>5065975
I tried to convince him, but my plea fell into deaf ears.
He refused to understand that by being paid his art was being destroyed.
Never again will pasta alley be filled this way.

>>5065962
what do you think a commission is? you are the business owner, they granted you that power. they told you the value of a frame and you said that was okay, or you didn't and you didn't get the commission. whether or not thats under minimum wage doesn't matter because that is your business and not theirs. in other words you are your own employer. there are several other situations where this is the same thing, most relevant are delivery boys, but there are bigger 'cooperation' like the concrete pourer and the concrete formers relationship. they tell you a value and you decide if you can live on that, if you cant who are you going to report for labor laws, yourself?

>>5063043
>loosing clients
Looks like you should *tighten* up the grasp on your clients

Heh :^)

carlos.jpg

>>5066012
Moron.

stop working with companies that dont actually give a shit about art
you're just devaluing yourself
gr*phic design is the worst field in the world