/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Failed at gesture, it's hopeless.

Failed at construction, it's hopeless.

I'll take this over the coomer wojak mobileposting

WHY?
FOR 4 MONTHS IVE BEEN DRAWING AND THERES NO IMPROVEMENT WHATSOEVER

keep it up and stop your fucking whinging

SHIZO SAMA?
I KNEEL

IT MIGHT BE TO FACE IT
YOU MAY AS WELL EMBRACE IT
https://youtu.be/4hZ_wTx_kWg

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH ME?
https://youtu.be/4hZ_wTx_kWg

>>5009511
you spam and you have a possible mental illness

stop doom posting
>>5009489
this one looks pretty cool. feels like a style that if messed with more, can probably spark something new and influence a personal style
look into it

>>5009526
LET'S TALK ABOUT THE DRAWINGS
AM I HOPELESS? ACTUALLY HOPELESS? I WANT THIS DREAM, I NEED IT
/BEG/ TELLS ME THAT IM A TALENTLESS FAILURE EVERY SINGLE DAY
EVERY SINGLE PERSON IS LIKE THAT TO ME

>>5009488
PLEASE STOP POSTING THIS IT HAS MY HANDWRITING ON IT WHY DIDN'T YOU SCREENSHOT THE WHOLE POST I WROTE A TON OF SHIT FOR YOU THAT REDLINE MAEKS ME LOOK SO BAD

>>5009527
just stop
don't try to communicate with this mentally retarded person
he's literally programmed to whine and cannot hold any meaningful conversation

>look up at the time
>yup it’s shizo time
TIME TO SEETHE OVER /IC/ ONCE MORE!!! AAAAAAIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEE

>>5009534
>>5009535
I can be lucid, just give it to me, what am I doing wrong? I need to be an artist just like my heroes

I'll take this schizo over the /pol/tard schizo in the /dtg/ general who derails the thread every time someone mentions chinese tablets.

Im the only one that cares about art in this board, im the only whos passionate
>>5009484
>>5009554
please help me
I need to be an artist like my heroes, an actual artist
is it a pipe dream or am i doing just ok for 4 months
im not right i know im not

>>5009540
Just pirate watts dude

>>5009558
deez nuts

>>5009558
If you want it so bad sell you car and all the crap you have, quit your job and find yourself a mentor, and do nothing but art for a couple of years

>>5009558
>Im the only one that cares about art in this board, im the only whos passionate
>please help me
How can you insult us, then turn around and ask us for help?

from the other thread
ill stand by it bro, youre only improving as you keep practicing
stop constantly thinking about how you could be failing your dreams. with that mindset, you will NEVER be what you want.
focus on making small improvements, and be happy when they work. maybe even start working on your own happiness personal before you keep worrying about your future in art.
dont be a fuckhead, i believe in you to be better

>>5009564
Oh sorry, its not about you
I never insulted anyones art
art is all that matters your character is weak and pathetic lol

>>5009571
yo u legit a dumbass

>>5009571
>>5009558
I mean this in the kindest way possible, but you should unironically give up drawing. You're going to have a stroke if you keep this up

>>5009582
why

>>5009583

>>5009583
you're having daily meltdowns what the fuck do you mean why

>>5009587
Real reasons or Ill eat you

>>5009530
Maybe because you're jumping from one topic to the other?

Maybe because you don't dedicate time to actual study?

>>5009590
>>5009563
Why are you ignoring this? Don’t you want to make it?

>>5009592
I draw 4 to 5 hours a day, practice my fundies like crazy, so you dont know me

>>5009590
>boot up pc
>browse /ic/
>see /beg/ doing better than me
>knuckles cracked
Yup, it’s shizo time

>>5009594
>practice my fundies like crazy
>gives up on gesture after one redline

>>5009593
I wont commit unless I know I can make it, thats a high risk high reward situation or in other words are you going to move to LA and become the next hot actor if youre just starting out with your acting shit
>>5009589
Thats irrelevant, am I doing that bad for 4 months or not? the artist doesnt matter the art matters but you only want to draw porn so you cant even grasp this self destructive mindset

>>5009600
Boxes, dynamic sketching, face it you know jackshit about me

>>5009604
>actually grind boxes
Kek

>>5009601
>thats irrelevant
yep, keep us posted on your journey of self destruction

>>5009604
I know enough to know you're a pussy

>>5009608
all youre ever going to be is a twitter artist, thats your legacy

you haven't improved because you're still only seeing lines and not the form
feeling form means being able to visualize the 3D space

>>5009594

did we scare you away, op? I thought this was all in good fun. Hope you weren't actually stressing out

>>5009612
Finally I can speak to another being, that's very likely, what's the reason? Am I somehow artistically inferior? Be honest with me, should I stick with this, can I fix this?

>>5009507
Please draw more birds. It’s a request

>>5009627
>can I fix this
yes
>should I stick with this
no lolol

How can I learn to see and draw forms instead of lines, is that the reason I don't improve?
Watts?

>>5009627
You’re better than 20% of the board, so yes.

>>5009636
You're not a real person, only I exist
Reasons?
>>5009639
That's not a lot

>>5009642
>Reasons?
mental deterioration

Not even crabbing, just give up. Forget about it.

>>5009651
Irrelevant, could I become an artist or not? Look upon my current abortions of drawings and tell me, thats what i care about

>>5009656
>Irrelevant
hahahahaha this fucking dumbasss

>>5009654
Give me the fucking reasons and they have to be art related

>>5009660
I might be the "crazy" one but you sure are fucking stupid, god you people are the worst.

>>5009665
haha bro you're both

bamping because entertaining narcissistic tantrum
>>5009656
what validation do you want that hasn't been offered already? people have already told you that you could. they're only saying you shouldn't because you clearly have issues. you just have to work hard and grind your ass off. no one else can tell you if it's worth it for you to do so or not.

you live in a perpetual state of self-humiliation because you think you should be amazing after spending 4 months doodling and you aren't (4 months is nothing btw). this is making you toxic and will prevent you from improving because every shitty drawing you do will cause you to throw a tantrum and freak out like you're doing now. even pros make shitty drawings sometimes but the difference is they have learned not to fall to pieces about it. this is true for anyone who develops any skill that takes a lot of effort and self-teaching.

you have to be kind to yourself, because no one else owes you kindness or validation, and if you act like a venomous sperg to anyone who attempts to engage with you, you will find the number of people who will humor your apparent narcissism gets smaller every time. this "I'm bad but I'm the only one who deserves to be good because no one else cares about art BWAAAH" shit is narcissistic as fuck and just plain wrong.

why are you actually here?

>>5009685
Art is what I want, blogpost that should belong on vent but Ill post it here, art was my escape as a child to cope with my shit reality, I used to draw, shitty kid doodles but I had confidence, if I wasnt getting abused by my mother or beaten up by other people to the point of needing to be hospitalized, one of those left me constantly hallucinating for a while, I was drawing art, is my escape and I want to, no, I need to do something worthwile. But this upbringing fucked me up, everyone tells me I'm nothing and all I do will only fail, I'm insecure, it hurts to fail because if I fail once I'll fail again, what was the punishment for failing? Beatings that lasted hours at a time. I'm insecure because I want to do this but what if I'm just deluding myself, I'm not talented, I'm fucking old, 19 years old, almost 20.

>>5009694
>I'm fucking old, 19 years old, almost 20.
fucking lol you're a child

>>5009531
Not him but can you explain the push and pull?
I've seen it a few times mentioned for figure drawing but don't really know how to do it.
Aren't you just meant to copy the reference?
Is push and pulling only for dynamic poses?
I don't think it works for poses that don't have a lot of energy.

>>5009696
>Aren't you just meant to copy the reference?
No wonder you’re a moron not getting gains

>>5009696
It's difficult to understand until you practice it a lot. I recommend doing 30 second gestures, for real. Vilppu's way of doing gesture by using rhythm lines not only maps out the drawing, it marks out which parts of the body is pushing and which is pulling, etc. (aka the action of the pose) Yes, you are copying the reference, but its deeper than that, you're diving into the underlying mechanics of the thing you're drawing. Are you just drawing a picture of a woman looking to the right, or a woman looking to the right? It seems like a minor difference, but its actually a very important distinction. Gesture works for both dynamic and subtle poses, even corpses, because ultimately the gesture is just a way to map out the drawing, and IF there's pushes and pulls that will be a part of the drawing. If you're just drawing a corpse, just use the gesture to map out the drawing. There are many many ways to do gesture, you don't have to do it the Vilppu way, you could also use a cloth and smudge in charcoal powder, like Vilppu does with a chamois, or you can use straight lines to block in the gesture, but whatever you do, you HAVE to map out the drawing, and to map it out you need to understand what it is you're drawing, and if you're drawing a figure, to understand what it is you're drawing, you have to understand what the figure is doing, what they are feeling, and the story point behind the drawing.

Everything I just wrote will become super obvious to you once you actually do those 30 second gestures. You'll find yourself actually kinetically feeling the action of the figure you're drawing with your pencil, whether there be action or no action

>>5009694
I get that you're fucked up, and it's okay when you're still a kid -- which you still are, but not for much longer. you will learn (hopefully) that there is a point in your life where you are the only one responsible for the way you act, no matter how badly you were abused, and no one is going to step in and do it for you. when you're not a kid anymore, people have zero tolerance or sympathy for you being an unhinged sperg. they run the fuck away. no one can actually help you overcome your baggage, except to offer sympathy if you don't scare them off first.

I mean this in the nicest, most compassionate way: no one has a reason to give a fuck about your hopes and dreams and handholding you the whole way. this means that it is entirely in your own hands to succeed. this should be liberating, and if it's not, think hard about why you think it isn't. it's the same for everyone else in the world. this also means that no one can take it away from you if you want it badly enough.

you are the stories you tell yourself about yourself. are you gonna make yourself into a venomous sperg or do you wanna be a success story and overcome your past abuse? I hope you do make it, but as long as you act like a cyclone of negative energy no one is going to want to help or interact with you.

>>5009694
>>5009716
just to reiterate, be kind to yourself because you can't count on anyone else to be. and grind your ass off but work smart. I could give more specific advice but you really weren't asking for specific advice here.

>>5009694
>I'm fucking old, 19 years old, almost 20.
You stupid fucking zoomers need some perspective. Your life is just starting at 20, don't ever say this retarded shit again.

>>5009716
>>5009721
Thanks anon can I ask for something?
Im mostly instinctual on drawing, that is too say messy and disorganized, Im too overhelmed by all I should be thinking, angles and relationships, I copy the lines, emulate the form but fail.
What would you say are my biggest issues when it comes to drawing? When you look upon all the images I posted on here, what should I be doing? How should I be thinking?

It's artists like you OP that I unfollow and don't support, no matter how good the artwork is. Get a better attitude you child. Remember that you have to be 18+ to post here.

>>5009716

Actual lethal change your life advice here, this advice is probably worth more than your net worth at 19.

For the love of god please listen to this advice

>>5009734
that really depends on your goal. grinding fundies to "git gud" without a specific goal in mind is fucking soul crushing. what do you want to be good at ultimately? painting? concepting? comic art? when you have some goal on the horizon, you start to see obstacles as setbacks or puzzles to solve rather than permanent traps. come up with an idealized version of yourself and where you want to be in 5 or 10 years, and make everything you do be in service to that.

from what I see in >>5009484 , you are doing eye training and accuracy practice from photos. this is good. try Dorian Iten's accuracy training (on YT) also, if that isn't what you were doing already. it's also good that you are practicing the shapes: keep that up, but try doing ALL the shapes that compose the image. one thing you should try is "enveloping", which pairs well with Iten's accuracy methods: find the biggest shape enclosing the subject, and then work down from big to small in terms of defining the shapes which compose the image. this might also help with your line quality, which you should keep in mind. straight lines are good.

another thing that helps me occasionally is doing value studies (in PS from photos). make an image b&w, the better composed it is the better the practice (e.g. movie stills) then try to recreate the image with only 2 values, and then only 3 values. try to be as accurate as possible and DO NOT color pick. DO NOT blend. this is for learning how to accurately read values and as a bonus, how they are used compositionally. value is probably the most important thing to be accurate about after your drawing/shapes.

>>5009734
>>5009780
contd.

your construction is promising, per >>5009486, >>5009492 and >>5009495 . keep practicing applying construction methods against reference images -- portrait, figure and gesture. don't get caught up in likeness at first. this is the best practice I can think of for construction, besides inventing figures. remember that art is two-phased: creating and correcting (self critique->fixing). you have to hone both of these of skills, and if you are frustrated by what you output, ~~think critically in full sentences about what looks wrong and how to fix it~~. practicing this back-and-forth cycle of creating and correcting is the best way to improve on your own.

lastly, if your aim is to paint ever, I recommend master studies. find some artists whose styles appeal to you and literally sit down and copy them without color picking or tracing. an easy way is load an image you want to reproduce into photoshop, double the width of it to the right, and use the right half to make your own so you know the dimensions are the same. TIMEBOX YOURSELF with this one so you don't get autistically focused on blending at 1000% zoom. if you can't think of artists you want to copy, now is the time to go find some by looking at classic works -- this should be the fun part. I'm a basic artfag so I tend to study Sargent, Zorn, and Cornwell.

>>5009760
>inb4 he comes back tomorrow with the same posts

>>5009784
>>5009780
Thanks for this advice, OP pic is critique someone did for me but I'll try to think about shapes, I was doing so here >>5009511 of course, more practice is needed, thanks for that resource I only knewa bout keys to drawing and evsiton (both mention something like that) as for my goals, I want to do both paintings and animation, Masaaki Yuasa being my maik inspiration, I tend to worry about likeness first when it comes to reference >>5009486 i like this one but it doesnt look like the reference at all, I'll do away with that concern.
Alrighty then, thanks again and wish you luck anon, I'll work on managing all of this and making sure another spergout doesn't happen again.

>>5009786
I wouldn’t be surprised after being spoonfeed so much information he’d still have a shizo fit after a couple days when he spans shit like “WHAT THE FUCK GUYS YOUR ADVICE WORK JACKSHIT AND I SUCK HARDER THAN USUAL NOW” or along the lines of that

>>5009527
Thanks for the compliment, I forgot how i did that one but I'll look into getting that amount of detail just right, might be worth something later on.

>>5009795
here's a video about accuracy training I mentioned (part 1 of 3): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMX3K3YMbd8

wrt shapes, use straight lines only, go from big to small, and think of the image as a mosaic of shapes. this will help to lay-in while painting, and the blending/gradient/halftone shit comes later. here's an extremely basic video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZknWKTpc90

here's a video about enveloping (I skimmed it but it seems ok): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR1oOa6Xu3k

here's another video by iten-sensei about blocking in, relating to the accuracy training: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ0lz7W0CYs

here's a video about value studies (not sure how good t is): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTYGWfiZnMA


BUT IF YOU RETAIN NOTHING ELSE I SAID, RETAIN THIS:
>come up with an idealized version of yourself and where you want to be in 5 or 10 years, and make everything you do be in service to that.
imagine you are that healed, forgiving, well-adjusted version of yourself whenever you are making decisions or feeling strong negative feelings. and do what that version of you would do, at all times. bridge the gap between present you and the ideal you.

>4 months
Lol.
You've improved about as much as one might expect within 4 months.

>>5009540
>what am I doing wrong
stop acting like your life depends on art. calm the fuck down retard

>>5009818
That's all amazing, I'll check all of those tomorrow and in the following days, thanks again for your help and Ill make sure to follow your advice.
Wish you luck anon.
>>5009824
Probably this, I dont know what got into me, mix of insecurity and envy

>>5009694
bro every kid who's an adult gets told they're nothing and will fail. You're acting like a hardcore victim right now because it's the only way you can escape that you suck dick at art. here's what you need to know anon, the people you look up to in art did it because they liked to do it, every post in this thread shows how much you hate art. so quit art because you're not getting anywhere, you're only going to get more and more frustrated because you look at art wrong

>>5009694
Self pity and a lack of understanding of oneself leads to no good ends.

>>5009484
Ye anon, there's probably something wrong with you. Everyone knows that those who are any good start landing studio jobs after 4 months of drawing.

>>5010196
This but unironically

>>5009714
thanks for explaining :)

Can we ignore this guy's posts, this is just attention seeking at this point

Calm down
Do some exercices from "right dire of the brain" in order to foget your symbols
Do some dynamic sketching to improve your line quality
And try to draw easier subjects like plants or rocks.

>>5010205
He's just a schizo.
>>5009484
Learn something for the schizoanon post your art and stop doing everything about yourself, keep practicing and stop acting like such a faggot, you are always looking for those petty compliments.

should i worry if i also have these breakdowns once in a while but i keep them to myself instead of posting

>>5010220
Yes.
Why would anyone go into tantrum over being shit in art?

>>5010222
idk its like weird feeling that
bruv im not gonna achieve anything i see no progress :( im shit at this and will nevee get decent
then i get up from bed and come back to art thinking damn u just gotta keep going
but i still am afraid that im wasting time and could do things more effectively

>>5010231
maybe you should take a break from art. what would happen if you took a break for 1 year not thinking or doing anything art related

>>5010231
Doing things effectively, well studying something effectively requires tons of trial and error both from yourself and methods you found from other people.
Experiment ways to studying something that ultimately yield results that will help you.
Example is John park is shit at doing master studies so he instead color pick the painting and analyze the palette the artist use after that use the palette for a different painting or study where he combines different references into one study

>>5010234
i really don't want to since i did fuck all nothing for like 6 years straight (last few concious years of school + college) and i begun actually doing courses and learning skills earlier this year and it feels good. I actually feel awful if i get nothing done during day.
>>5010236
Yeah i'm just afraid that i will be doing something for, say a year straight and then will realise that i could've done different something that would boost me way further, but because i didn't i did a year of 40% efficency compared to 65% efficency if i'd know the better thing.

Also people say alot that you should not be hard on yourself when doing art because failure is part of learning process, but what if i'll be so soft to myself that at a certain point in time i will stop improving and will not notice that because i will believe in my own lies that
haha im gonna get better failure is ok :)

>>5009861
I don't hate art, drawing is fun

>>5010243
I’ll probably just suck it up and just draw,
Complaint about the “perfect method” isn’t gonna get you nowhere unless you move yourself forward which is just drawing and experimenting.

>>5009484
Maybe you aren't meant to draw people.

You might be the best landscape painter yet to exist. I can't paint high keyed landscapes to save my life, yet I make plenty of money selling darker type paintings, you have to go with your strengths.
Explore something other than drawing humans.

>>5010269
Nah he’s on a suicide march towards drawing figures

>>5010267
true, i guess

your drawings look fine. you're better than like 99% of /beg/. settle the fuck down, god damn

>>5009484
Here's advice for everyone reading this thread:
1.ask for more critique for every piece you make
2.shut the fuck up while receiving critique, nobody cares about your excuses
3.erase what you did wrong, fix it based on the critique
4.rinse and repeat

General tips: Stop putting a piece of your soul inside every training piece you create. It's just a training piece, you're supposed to make thousands of those, so if every single one has the added goal of being perfect, you'll burn yourself out even before you actually learn anything.

Training pieces are made so you learn from your mistakes. The mistakes and learning from critique are the points, not making beautiful art. In academic tradition, you wouldn't even own your training pieces. You'd just give them to the school archive, for school to use however they like.

Stop putting your self-worth in every shitty scribble, and start growing a thicker skin for critique.

Ask for more critique, and shut the fuck up while you get it.

>>5010364
thanks

>>5009484
stop saying it's hopeless you absolute retard faggot

>>5010364
No.

>>5009484
You’re my new favorite shitposter tobh. Can’t wait to bully you more.

>>5010269
But sucking at drawing people is how you get better at it?

>>5009716
Wow, this was pretty enlightening, I’m only a little older than schizo OP but this was a good read. Still
>are you gonna make yourself into a venomous sperg or do you wanna be a success story and overcome your past abuse?
I’m gonna do the latter but not overcome whatever the fuck “past abuse” is so that I can then use my status and power to take out my frustration on other people

>>5009484
Haven't you been drawing for more than 4 months?

>>5010515
>I’m gonna do the latter but not overcome whatever the fuck “past abuse” is so that I can then use my status and power to take out my frustration on other people
attaboy. tuck it away for later. it's your weapon against the world and everyone who wronged you -- which is literally everyone, if you feel about it hard enough

>>5010602
how does one even use that as weapon

>>5010583
What? I started on 4 months ago, only did doodles as a kid

>>5009484
maybe don't draw heads for a while
learn another part
the best artists have an approach to draw anything

this is my fifth doodle, took me about an hour. will I make it bros? I used a reference and tried to make it as 1:1 as it could get without tracing.

>>5009571

>>5009729
are you retarded?
people only live to their 80s at most
this pretty much means that he only has about 60 more years left which is not even enough to get good at drawing
retard

>>5009484
learning how to trace and not learning how to draw

>>5014392
Good start unironically

>>5016034
Biggest mistake I made starting out was trying to copy rather then breaking down and reinterpreting the information. Things didn't look half bad but it took forever. When I realized the mistake things took a bit of a dip at first but it quickly improved when I wasn't fussing about whether or not things should be the thirds of a millimeter more to the left.

>>5018250
Careful teaching is also a skill, giving people the answer is the worst thing you can do. Try to phrase your words in a way so they come to the answer themselves, this way they can take what they learned and apply it not only in art but everything they do in life

>>5015874
This damn board! Kek.

>>5018190
thanks, good to hear I'm somewhat on the right track then, here's another 1 hour sketch I did. Hair gives me the most problems, and so does perspective, she's not looking the way the original reference intended, my drawing shows her looking down to the right more while the original is her staring directly at your perspective