/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>4995195
so what did he make?

>>4995199
he fucked your mother in her stinky asshole and then cut her throat.

>>4995199

My Neighbor Totoro, Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, Princess Mononoke, Castle in the Sky...

>>4995205
isn't that anime?
>>4995202
lol imagine not staying on topic and having to revert to trolling. how embarrassing.

>>4995208
that wasn't trolling.

>>4995209
its neither a fact or soon to be, so it is. stay on thread topic.

>>4995214
who the fuck are you? a jannie? you can ban me as much as you want, but a modem reset will make me return here to shitpost? what you can do? show my ip to everyone? my ip is dynamic. What can you do jannie? is your life worth living?

>>4995208

They're animated films, I wouldn't call them anime.

>>4995195
Miyazaki has to understand that the anime he hates can act as a good gateway towards making great things. Some people can't just pop out of the box and start pumping out legendary works.

>>4995218
anime is a term to refer to animation originating from Japan. Even if Miyazaki tries to act like it is not, his works are no different than "anime". They are still associated as anime, despite what he may think. I get it, I can understand why such a distinction would be made for the sake of Ghibli, but that Studio's style can make the argument of not being anime, yet alone how its directed and straight forward the plot can be. I've studied his work, read the books, watched the films, and many other Japan animated films from when Hayao was just starting out. But that doesn't regard the fact that the animation originate from Japan, therefore it is anime.

>>4995217
schizo alert.

>>4995218
I mean they're animated films from a japanese studio in animation style that's instantly recognizable as "anime". I feel like trying to label them as anything other, over what I would assume to be the absence of typical anime tropes, is an unnecessary divide.

>not doing both

>>4995195
Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

>>4995234
>>4995235

See, a lot of people will pull out the "anime is 'animation' in Japan", but I honestly think that "anime" is now closer to an art movement than just the medium that it describes. I think a clear distinction needs to be drawn for that reason.

>>4995235
i think the reason why people can get defensive about "Ghibli is not anime films" are due to the generalized concept of what "anime" has become or oversaturated with. Given the oversaturation of the industry, many otaku would not consider Ghibli as anime because its overall aesthetic. I mean, Hayao's work starts off as manga give for the example of Nausicaa, he wrote and illustrated and then directed and wrote the film adaption of it.

>>4995242
yes

>>4995195
Most weeaboos are social autists and other mental fuckups so i would say that's true

I think we had this thread already a couple month back

>>4995246
Explain

>>4995252
I can never tell if most of the quotes people post about him are real. The one thing that saddens me greatly is how bitter he had become at life. When his Son wanted to become a great director like him, he did fuck all to teach the Son and roasted his shit when his first movie came out. I can respect his craft, but as a person he is a salty old man waiting for death.

>>4995243
as much as it would seem to be a movement now, given the global response to it, thanks to digital media. I would like to point out, well since you're probably younger than I am. Anime was in fact receiving global responses in the scarce media Western audiences would receive. I remember anime fans in the US back in the initial interaction, created fanzines and other types of media while pirating tapes from overseas exchanges. But would you associate films with global acclaim such as Akira, Ghost in the Shell, and other mature animated films from Japan with amazing art style and keen animation (with an amazing budget of course) anime? Keep in mind, Akira and the latter started off as manga, would call those things comics? Nausicaa started as a manga too, then adapted to film. would that also be filtered to the western term of 'comic' defiling the cultural significance of manga in Japan. Or what about Monkey punch and its animated adaptions. In these cases we'd have to make several distinctions, because of many of these examples would not fit the generalized term of 'anime' if we were to accept Hayao's distinction. Then we would also need to address the use of 3d animation being used currently for Japan animated films, as certain studios have shown an evolved use of it in recently made and teased movies. would these be 3d anime, given our past experiences with studios using 3d technology to produce series?
after taking a philosophy class in film and photography, back from my college days, its interesting to discuss these things, despite the wall of text, i'm not trying to make ill of the discussion

>>4995258

Getting too involved in a fantasy about how people act and interact with each other, and not dealing with the reality of how people actually act and interact with each other.

>>4995273
oh spoilers dont work on /ic/ that sucks.

>>4995252
I can relate desu. The suburbs are driving me crazy. Rows and rows of cookie-cutter houses with no end in sight

>>4995263
He hates his own industry he is in and didn't want his son walk the same path

>>4995273

You'd actually be surprised; I was born around the time when the pirating of anime on VHS tapes became commonplace, though I don't recall much of fanzines.I'd heard of them, but at the time TV/PC gaming was a new thing, and being the young boy I was, I got caught up with that. To give you an idea about how old I am, I had the Commanche flight-sim on a floppy disk (really my father's, but mine now).

Regarding the films you listed, it's hard to really classify those as "anime", as those are some of the "classics" of anime that we know of; the first to do things a bit differently than they had been done at the time. The harbingers of what we would know as anime? I think they're qualified to be that. But to say they're strictly "anime"? At the very least, I don't think so.

>>4995273
Anime has become like Judaism. There are religious jews and people who are jewish. Anime is now both a style and a geographic issue and the lines that blur because of this distinction causes trouble in online discourse because of-fucking-course definitions being fucked is always an issue. I mean, go look at /lit/. The memes of "define 'define'" kinda shit permeates everywhere.

>>4995195
He's not wrong. A not insignificant portion of anime is the product if a feedback loop of sorts. Inbred, shallow tripe that's the product of people rehashing rehashes of rehashed tropes and ideas, both in art style and narrative. The same can be said for much of Western comics culture, a capeshit circlejerk which has continually devolved into an ever downward spiral of asininity. Within DC and Marvel, truly visionary and original artists and writers are a rare gem within a sea of tasteless gruel.
This doesn't hold true for all comics and anime but again, not an insignificant portion either.

>>4995243 >>4995244
I agree that it's just an art movement and that the studio or its creators don't need to be located in japan or be of japanese decent in order for it to qualify. While these films do deviate from the modern standards a little bit I still reckon the average person would quickly identify these films as anime however. Ultimately I suppose it doesn't really matter what label is attached as long as the terminology identifies a general concept or idea I'd argue that it serves its purpose.

>>4995309
Animation is the Hollywood of Japan

>>4995309
I wonder if this isn't something that happens to any media or product that reaches a certain threshhold of populairity. That being said the amount of low quality shows that come out each season with seemingly no demographic that should genuinely be all that excited for them is a little baffling.

While we are talking about anime and to some extent manga and how bad it is as an industry for the most part, can someone explain why the fuck Demon Slayer got so popular, it's such a generic shounen, am I missing something?

>>4995318

It's a numbers game, to keep people employed, I think.

>>4995326
The manga or the anime? On the manga side its because the author kept the story short and was not afraid to kill characters off. On the anime end it was because it was a small studio that put the extra effort towards making a good presentation.

>>4995331
"Anime was a mistake"
- H. M.
- Translator
- Internetards

>>4995318
>That being said the amount of low quality shows that come out each season with seemingly no demographic that should genuinely be all that excited for them is a little baffling.
Weeaboos' brains work in the same way as coomers' - the latter will consume anything that makes his dick hard, the former will consume anything that has generic looking anime girls, regardless of quality.
To better clarify, i do not hate anime/mangas as i like a bunch of them, but i can't deny that these are the target audiences with the lowest IQ in the entire art industry, which makes it easy to use them to get big money.

>>4995357
Don't you get it? A weeb is but a subset of a coomer, one who has forsaken their humanity for a fantasy! Why coom to a real life girl and he problems, when I can project my perfect partner onto a drawing of a girl?

>>4995357
I suppose you have a point there. I think some people will always look for whatever generic reality show, soap opera, grindy/repetitive videogame or indeed generic anime drivel they can get their hands on to kill time. To me time has always seemed like the biggest investment your making when it comes to media and general hobbies so consuming anything that doesn't resonate with you always seemed wasteful but I know a lot of people do perceive quantity or length as a positive rather than something that comes at a cost.

>>4995263

His son mostly took up animation to get his dad to notice him.
Miyazaki spent a fuckload of time at work honing his craft and making money for their family, so he didnt have a lot of time to interact with him.

>>4995309

The Comics Code basically killed comics as a medium in the USA. They were given strict guidelines for their depictions of characterization, philosophy and style of narration because they were deemed a children's product, and they didnt want comics to "corrupt the youth", in the '50's.
By the time the US had crawled out of the capeshit hamper it was too late, other countries in Europe and Asia were lightyears ahead of us.

>>4995412

Real shame, too. Think about all the cool comics the US would have had.

>>4995195
that's the same as saying that stylization is made by people who can't stand to look at reality.

>>4995277
Real people suck, I want nothing to do with them anyway

>>4995440

Then why pick up art in the first place?

>>4995437
To a certain extent, that is true for some, but to others, stylization is simply an exaggeration of features that already exist. Like caricature, for example.

>>4995263
People really walked away from that documentary with the most one-dimensional braindead views possible. Earthsea in question was a film that dealt with fatherhood and Miyazaki was an absent father. Put two and two together.

>>4995195
>> "Anime is made by people who can't stand to look at other humans"
People who make anime and manga are generally very in touch with themselves and other people. It's actually the people who consume anime at the exclusion of all other mediums who can't stand to look at their fellow humans.

>>4995440
What if... you're actually the one who suck?

>>4995490
I think Miyazaki actually has better insight into this than you do.

>>4995195
I respect his work but he seems like the type of retard who hate his work but does it because thats all he knows.I can't help but pity him

>>4995509
>tfw he actually draws little girls, in an industry that makes or breaks artists on how well they can draw little girls
despite it all, thats a fact.

>>4995528
Now, what's really gonna bake your noodle later on is, if he hadn't drawn little girls, would the rest of the industry have started drawing little girls?

>>4995528
are you talking about artstyle or porn?
cause MITA and other shota shit is hot trash but MHA,one piece, super and other stuff doesn't have that and is doing well.

>>4995535
artstyle. not porn.

>>4995533
that concept was already in place with artists. its weird, but that notion existed prior. However, with Ghibli's success, i'm sure it encouraged to unhealthy lengths of coomsumption in the industry.

>>4995538
That goes for every art. People don't wanna see bad anime, but OPM kinda proved with a great story it can still make it.

>>4995499
Oh? Does miyazaki consume anime and spend a significant amount of time with other people who do nothing but consume anime? He definitely has better things to do than that.

At least people who create anime have a spark of something that resembles a human life form. Consoomers are human-shaped husks.

>>4995308
>Anime has become like Judaism. There are religious jews and people who are jewish
>people who are jewish but not religious
Great, we have faggots here who think being a Jew is an actual ethnicity for whatever fucking reason.

>>4995195
>Old fart who hyper-idolizes women complains that anime isn't based on realistic people
LOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Go back to bitch about gun otaku, old man.

>half the posters unironically shitting on Miyazaki
pornfaggots belong on a cross

>>4995252
>Hayao Miyamonke

>>4995701
I thought he was a gun/vehicle otaku

>>4995195
It's true. I hated how everything realistic I made had somewhat of a resemblance to me. Maybe it was all in my head, but cartoony drawings feel more separate from me.

>>4995263
Not sure if that is real but during an interview about filmmaking he says "I realized this is just a glorified hobby", very bitterly. Consider that he also said "When you make art, you should do it with the intent of changing the world". I think he knows that everything is going inexorably downhill and his work cannot change that. It was devastating to hear that quote from him.

>>4995815

Do you have a link to that interview? That sounds super interesting to watch.

>>4995790
He's a military otaku, which is ironic since he hates war.

>>4995864
10 years with Hayao Miyazaki on NHK

>>4995815
>It was devastating to hear that quote from him.
What a dumb cunt you are. Are you gonna let a jaded old bitter feminist faggot change your mind about the medium you love?
Even if his movies are great that doesn't mean he's a saint or his opinions are correct or anything like that.

Lots of great art are made by shitty people, remember how John Lennon abused and cheated on his girlfriends?

>>4995923

Thank you!

>>4995928
I have not read past the opening insult of your shitty post.
Shove your shitty manners up your asshole and kill yourself as painfully as possible, ty.

>>4995942
lol
What a dumb cunt you are.

>>4995918

He has a rather romantic relationship with machines of war. In The Wind Rises, he does a lot to make the MC (who is the main engineer behind the Zero Fighter) look like someone who merely created the Zero out of an interest in planes, and not as a tool for the government to be used in war.

It's... odd.

Miyazaki is just a waifufag in the end.

>>4995195
can somebody tell me at what point in the last 20 years did anime become extremely cancerous? its fucking everywhere now and nobody seems to be capable of drawing authentically anymore thanks to it.

>>4996252
after death note ended and the industry stagnated

>>4996259
did the end of death note cause the stagnation of anime as we see it today?

>>4996265
definitely, the name of the anime was a prophecy

I may be wrong, but isn't animation one of the art forms that so carefully tries to imitate life? Your animation being considered life-like is seen as a high accolade.

>>4996252
Here's my theory.
After the whole Tsutomu Miyazaki shitshow happened, the japanese media ran with the story that all anime watchers were basically like him: murderous pedo moetards in the making, which led to a decrease of viewership from basically all demographics except the moetards who were targeted by the media in the first place. This forced anime producers to gradually pander those moe otakus because they're retards who pretty much buy anything with a loli in it, leading to the bland moeshit landscape we have today.

It was a self-fulfilling prophecy.

>>4996408
but now we have creepy lolifags all over the place and excessive degeneracy. i gurantee you there is shit going on being affected by this kind of thing that media outlets wont report on even though its probably fucking people in the head.

>>4996373
>but isn't animation one of the art forms that so carefully tries to imitate life?
No, you retard. Animation is BASED on life, not an imitation of it.
Animation is for exploring with your imagination what you can't do with live action, that's why the majority of animated films are based on fantastical plots (and why most live action adaptations of cartoons are shit).
If you wanna imitate life then you may as well film a video instead of doing animation.

Isn't that like all old animator and illustrators like telling younger or beginner artists?

>>4996373
Maybe originally with snow white

>>4996408
Definitely a plausible theory. Add to that the economic downturn in Japan at the time, and it was a recipe for disaster. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people left the industry to keep from being stigmatized, leaving the people who really wanted to draw lolibait.

Shame, it could have been so much more.

>>4995625
lol there are genetic diseases specific to jews. not to mention israel makes you take a genetic test to get citizen ship. jews obviously cluster genetically.
>>4995252
anime and anime culture have been getting gradually worse over the last few decades

>>4995199
he gave us the only reason we haven't dropped a 3rd nuke by this point

>>4995234
then BTAS is anime because of how much of it was made in japan

>>4995258
if you don't see the problem with moeshit, you're part of the problem

>>4995309
explains why MHA is so popular despite being mediocre

>>4995412
there's still enough of an audience for comics to thrive, just they're retarded with both how they handle their public image and their business model

>>4995252
Based.

>>4995490
Source on the pic please.

>>4997267
>lol there are genetic diseases specific to jews. not to mention israel makes you take a genetic test to get citizen ship. jews obviously cluster genetically.
Read the book by Shlomo Sand, all they did was WW2 race science so they can prove their so called "Jewish Heritage" to steal land.

>>4995544
objectively peaked in 80s-90s

>>4995785
reject humanity
return to deified 2d loli pusse

>>4996408
>>4997266
Nothing of this would have happened if Hayao Miyazaki kept his murderous pedo son in check.

>>4995252
Imagine being so bitter at life you wanna see your own country to collapse.

>>4995572
>Consoomers are human-shaped husks.
Don't be so hard on yourself.

>>4997752
no you

>>4995195
i hope he fucking dies before he finishes his movie. that would be the ultimate fuck you towards him and his dick-sucking fans.

so were idealized classical sculptures

>>4995625
Because they are. Jews themselves say so. Jews existence is literally in their Holy book. It's all they have. So it's an ethnicity and religion. Unless you think it's Jewish tricks

>>4998068
What do you have against Miyazaki?

>>4997361
Explains why it is so good. Whites tend to score highest on writing related ability while Asians tend to score higher in math related areas. BTAS combined the best writers possible with the best artists possible based on genetics alone before you add in their years of education and experience.

>>4998631
Yikes.

Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind is beautifully drawn. I recommend anyone to read it. I read somewhere that he stopped doing manga's after that because it was too much work.

Looking at it and now trying to work on my own, I completely understand it.

Princess Mononoke's page on Wikipedia is written by some PHD in social justice who claims the movie is about
>environmentalism (because there's nature in it)
>feminism (because there are women in it)
>disability (because there are lepers in it)
>conformity (I think because San rejects humanity)
Completely missing the point that the movie is about hatred. It's about how noble beings who are sensitive to injustice and pain are in danger of letting resentment take over them. It's just so obvious that this is what the entire movie is about. Ashitaka's body is consumed by the curse of hatred, he even says it out loud when San tried to kill Eboshi in the village that hatred is the root of it all. Hatred turns beautiful gods into monsters because it takes root in pain, and the desire to protect. San herself is a character that exists within the border between man and forest (liminality is a massive concept in Japanese culture, esp. Shinto) but her motive is hatred and thus she is unwelcome by both sides. She's an anomaly, not a middleman. And as she gets caught up in the struggle when the border is broken (humans taking over the forest to kill God) she's quickly absorbed by Okkoto's demon form and she becomes corrupted much faster than Ashitaka. And in a single moment her whole character arc resolves, and that's where she finally says "No! I don't want to become a demon!", that's where she saves herself from entropy. If San didn't say that, as the forest God gave death to both Moro and Okkoto he would have done the same to her.
Imagine making this kind of work only for people to think it's about stronk women and saving the environment.

>>4999019
i think this is the issue with education being open to everyone; nobody wants to admit shit isn't as straightforward as they think and assume the whole world of education has to focus entirely on civil rights.
its never that straight-forward, unfortunately, but like you said about the Wikipedia Monoke review; they're too blindsided by hate to see the bigger picture. and it isn't about "privilege" or some shit. plenty of people with cozy backgrounds are miserable behind the scenes.

>>4999019
Well, Miyazaki has already said he identifies as a feminist and a marxist in interviews, which is obvious if you watch his movies.
He even drew manga for the Japanese Communist Party.

Miyazaki is a hack using his own life experiences to fuel his stories, can't even come up with something from his imagination alone

>>4999775
No idea about marxism but there's a quote from him about why he chooses female leads which goes something like "at first I thought it was because of a lofty reason but it's really that I just like women" do you have the interview where he says he's literally a "feminist"?
Either way this doesn't matter if he's a feminist and a communist, Princess Mononoke is about hatred.

>>4999792
>Miyazaki is a hack using his own life experiences to fuel his stories
Not really. Miyazaki just puts everything he likes into his movies, but things like story structure and writing are taken from other sources.

>>4999804
I think it's mentioned on "The Birth of Studio Ghibli."

>>4999837
As for the politics, I don't really care. I only know that he disagrees with American war politics, but he's not even a Westerner and I have no idea what Japanese leftism looks like.
Suzuki says "he's a feminist" in the translation of that documentary, but I doubt that the term carries the same connotations as what a Westerner would say in 2020, especially considering that Japan is actually sexist just like most of Asia. That "women should be allowed to develop professionally in a company" doesn't strike me as modern unhinged feminism.
I know he hates typical female anime voices which I wholeheartedly agree on.

>>4995195
this thread is history in the making

>>4995195
I always felt the Japs are so restrained and self-conscious that they over idealized an imaginary of their non-possible selfs with those white traits and righteous overthinking and behavior.

> genetics cope

>>4995815
he did change the world tho, the people who grew up on miyazaki are not old enough yet. just wait

>>4995195
> "Anime is made by people who can't stand to look at other humans"

I can only assume to apply that to the Japanese until such a time as I get information regarding the whole comment and the context of the conversation which prompted such a response.

>>5003413

He was specifically talking about the Japanese anime industry, yes, but you can also apply that to any artists that pick up the "anime style", or pursues projects based on existing anime.

>>5003407
>the people who grew up on miyazaki are not old enough yet. just wait
Those who are not making sexy fanart of Princess Mononoke / Nausicaa as the stronk women protagonists who don't need no man have probably killed themselves or they have lost all hope in life, art and culture. 95% of Ghibli "fans" identify Miyazaki's work as the Totoro bootleg merch they get shipped from China. Miyazaki is the prime example that you will fail at changing the world no matter how hard you try, simply because modern people will treat anything you do as a product and they will look at it on such a superficial level they will most likely misunderstand or completely twist the meaning into something stupid and worthless, and that's when they're too stupid to inject their agenda in said superficial views.
Modern society is like reverse King Midas, you could condense all the blood and tears in your body to make pure gold, yet with barely a touch it will turn that to shit.

>>5003453
The problem with industrialization, where all products are disposible and attention is low.

Has art ever changed society in any meaningful way?

>>5003485
The cellphone was inspired by Star Trek's wireless communicators.

>>5003485
Anime made people hornier than usual

>>5003485
I doubt it ever did spontaneously. Whenever art managed to change something, it was supported by powers with an agenda.

>>5003485

>>5003603
>art that changed art