/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

okay THIS one is the last I promise. Can't believe this took 3 days to complete. Still, was fun to fuck around with composition and color. At least it doesn't look like total dogshit, right?

>>4989617
what's the point of using vectors if you're not gonna play to its strengths?

>>4989633
what do you mean exactly?

how do you improve your inking in digital
something always feels off about it and i can never do it right

would i really need to spend an hour just to get the"right lines"

>>4989633
Whats a vector in art?

Repost from last thread.

>>4989650
>>4989666
Vectors are just the name of the general technique where you draw stuff using virtual contours. They're usually called stuff like bezier lines, paths, gradients, etc.

Vectors are extremely popular in building user interfaces, because they look correct on all displays. They're also popular with infographics, because the intent there is to focus on the content by eliminating detail.

No one's saying you can't make good and detailed art with what are essentially CGI techniques, it's just that vectors are very awkward tools for trying to make things like that.

>>4989681
you've posted this like three times now, please go and draw more heads. many many more heads.

>>4989683
Here's an example of what can happen when you go really ham on vectors
https://diana-adrianne.com/purecss-lace/
Your browser is probably gonna choke if you're a phone poster btw.

>>4989683
I only made background with vectors (ellipse tool, symmetry mode, some filters) What did you mean by "if you're not gonna play to its strengths"? Which strengths I should've used?

>>4989698
Oh. There's a lot of solid color use and uniform line weight going on, reminded me of early Flash games.

>>4989709
question is: is this a bad thing? I tried few different coloring approaches today and one posted before looks best to me. This one with softer color is second best.

Best portrait I did as for now

>>4989726
how many times are you going to post this crap nigger?
stop marrying your /beg/ drawings and move on.

>>4989739
Leave him alone you faggot crab, PYW

>>4989729
Ear looks a little off. Post the ref

>>4989743
blow me, i'm tired of looking at sausage girl

>>4989752
The ear is off, yeah, and I didn't capture the nose correctly.
Probably should have done it on toned paper as well, but it was meant to be a quick sketch, but I decided to spend a bit more time with it.

>>4989757
Then get off /beg/. This is like putting your hand in fire and complaining its hot

>even the boxes that are the result of me planning the vanishing points beforehand end up a bit fucked once I do the vanishing point test
IM NOT FUCKING AROUND IM NOT FUCKING AROUND IM NOT FUCKING AROUND

>>4989739
>stop marrying your /beg/ drawings and move on.
I will, once somebody tells me why exactly my sausage girl is shit. By the way, can you tell me why?

will inking someone else's pencils improve my skills
i find it hard to ink my own stuff

>>4989799
Im /beg/ myself but it jsut looks like advanced deviant-art tier. Which is basically newbie but not rock bottom garbage. The pose and hands are fine but the shading is eh, thought im not good enough to explain why its bad.
Could also say symbol drawing but thats literally just a "draw more" solution.
Background is cool.
Literally just draw more and study some rendering

>>4989810
yeah, I guess "advanced deviant-art tier" is pretty accurate description. Will try to do better with next one.

>>4989799
because she's made entirely of sausages. even her damn breasts look like a sideways sausage.

Point me towards making my rendering appealing

>>4989822
okay, fair point. That's is why I post here. Others may see things I've missed.

>>4989799
the shading is nothing to write home about, it's all soft brush gradients with no consideration for edges or intensity, and you haven't studied much colour theory (inb4 muh purple and orange!!) - this is most evident in the shadows on the face and hair, it's just the same desaturated grey wash everywhere and there's no consideration for reflected light or subsurface on the skin.

the face is not modelled at all in terms of shadows, the eye sockets are on the same flat plane as the nose, neither of which show any light occlusion or cast shadows despite being the darkest crevices on the face. you could say you've tried to do this with the linework, but then there's a consistently wide and shaky outline over the whole thing and some elements inside the silhouette - are these supposed to be shadows too? what is your linework actually doing in this drawing, aside from being very bland and at times looking like it was done with a mouse

the highlight on the hair goes hand in hand with the shadow critique, it's just a generic "learn how to draw anime 101!" tier bar that is off in both value and temperature and does absolutely nothing to show the texture of the material it's on. on that topic, every single thing is rendered in exactly the same way, despite there being atleast 4 or 5 different materials here, and this again goes with the soft edge on every single shadow. the forms are blobby and flat as a result.

the anatomy is questionable to say the least, and it's most obvious on the shoulders and armpits. the forms are all just sausages, and the rendering adds to this effect.

there's more i could write but i'm running out of space, the long and short of it is you have a lot of work to do on pretty much all fundamental levels. do some life drawing and anatomy studies, do some painting studies and hand in hand with these learn more about light and shadow and natural colour and use them as an excuse to also nail down some form of consistent brush work.

>>4989844
now muscl-ify her (find a ref). it'll be funny.

>>4989856
haha itll be funny haha just draw a muscle girl for me haha its an innocent request haha

>>4989847
thanks for taking your time to analyze my shity drawing. Most useful post I've read here on /beg/.

>>4989867
what?
>your problem is that you're not thinking about muscles
>solution: think about muscles
it's not a request you moron. i'm not asking you to draw my oc
if you need to think about muscles, you might as well do it on your autistic ben 10 art. but whatever.

>>4989879
dont take it personally anon im just a little gay, im not ben 10 anon

how come penciling isn't considered "finished work"
even digital penciling. i mean whats really the difference

>>4989891
badass

>>4989879
I guess I can add "drawing autistic art" to general pile of criticism now. Thanks

>>4989907
i'm sorry anon--- your interests are perfectly valid. please continue drawing ben 10.
i am not being sarcastic.

>>4989908
muscle!ben10 fetishist spotted

daily drawing

Tips on face needed

>>4989953
the face is too far away from the head, it looks like a mask

>>4989592
Jesus fucking chirst OP be creative with the picture nigger.

>>4989957
Better?

>>4989980
feature placement, proportions, random inconsistent hatching

im retarded and i dont know how to cite the previous thread, but i found the found thre problem with the cursed shit i did earlier: drawing "quick sketches" on a desk thats 6 inches below eye level at work, still cant do shit about the hair of this one character in particular, its supposed to have a long lock brushing to the side and having tte rest of its mass come over the opposite shoulder

is it normal for your physical to look JUST A LOT better than your digital?
like when i do something souly digital i feel like killing myself

feedback?

>>4990002
also i managed to put together this one as well

>>4989592
Dumb question but when drawing digitally, what's the brush to use for a sketch and what's the brush to use for the actual lineart?

>>4989993
feature placement and proportions is just more careful observation so i’ll practice that. should hatching lines be parallel is that what you are trying to say?

>>4990007
dudes forearm is busted, tits look whacky and gravity defiant, legs are way too long and are completely lacking in anatomy, neck is too thick desu

Rate my art
How's the color? Faces and angle?

>>4990023
also, knee is busted

forget the feets, is there anything terrible wrong with my propòrtions?

>>4990015
I mean there's a very clear shadow side to the head here but you've chosen to hatch out the side plane of the head, only the part of the side plane of the nose that's next to the cheek, and the bottom of the jaw, despite the fact that the shadow values you've hatched exist all over the shadow side of the face but have been left blank. It seems totally random and doesn't really help to define the form or the light. What might be more useful is to ditch the hatching altogether and instead just use a very light line to define the terminator of the shadow side, so you can more clearly state where the light is and how it's affecting the form of the face. This seems like a better alternative than hatching out the whole shadow, which will just look messy and also require a much more defined grasp of contours than you're showing, as well as forcing you to deal with value, which might be too much all at once

>>4990032
the hip bone and the ribcacge are further appart , shorten the legs a little bit by widening that gap, the rest looks fine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJEPhBL77lk

amano makes some of the most striking beautiful art I've ever seen, I wonder if he grinded fundies...

I wonder if hes lying in this video or leaving something out, I find it hard to believe he got this good just following his instinct (literally just draw)

his proportions are often off but not in an amateur way it never looks so off that it looks bad, its more something you notice when you start studying art.

Is there an easier way of figuring out figure drawing for absolute poopoo brains like me? I keep trying loomis but whenever i try to do it on my own with a reference it either ends up off-proportion or extremely stiff. My biggest issue is keeping the length of the midsection between the ribcage and pelvis accurate.

>>4990053
coincidentally, the composer of a lot of final fantasy (one of the things amano is known for) music nobuo uematsu also didn't "grind fundies" and just wrote a hell of a lot of music that sounded good to him

"fundies" aren't such a rigid concept that they have to be booklearned through loomis and co, they are just different factors of realism that you'll inevitably stumble across if you just draw, and you'll have to either observe carefully or come up with your own solutions

as long as your brain is engaged, you can "just draw" your way to success quite simply. it will take just as much work as going the traditional fundie route, if not more (because you'll be stumbling in the dark sometimes and there'll be more trial and error with less guidance) but it's totally feasible all the same. these people are described as "talented" with regard to not following muh fundies, but the simple fact is that they just drew a hell of a lot, often from a very young age, and were thus able to resolve a lot of fundamental problems or create new solutions by themselves without following a book. you can do this too, but it requires a real sense of zeal and commitment, which is why people often kick the bucket after some petty amount of attempts when they don't see results

>>4990063
drawing the face is not a beginner exercise, what are you practicing?

focus on line, form, perspective and gesture.
get good at that and move on would be my advice.

this is like the equivalent of trying to bench press double your body weight in your first month at the gym and getting mad it doesnt work.

even if you do it you will probably be using other muscles to pick up the slack, which defeats the purpose of doing the exercise because you arent learning how to do it properly first.

learn the basics, then move on to more complex things like anatomy and construction.

this advice saved me years of frustration, I recommend it highly.

you should still draw what you like, but when it comes to practice focus on the absolute basics, because you will have to learn them eventually anyway.

>>4990063
it will end up extremely stiff and issue-ridden while you're learning, this is natural. the fact that you can see one of your problems is a good indicator that with targeted study you'll be able to fix those issues and improve. loomis isn't a magic pill that will instantly give you good results, it's a learning process that you have to keep practising and expand on in the long run. don't fret and keep going

>>4990041
is this better, the legs are long on porpuse

I know... pure aesthetic bliss.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttQP7d_-dE

>>4990090
yeah, thats pretty good

>>4990100
desu I love this, reminds me of old Underground Comix Stuff

>>4990124
I should invest in the rapidograph cleaner, I'd shit out a lot more like it and the results would look better. It looks a bit like 80's underground comix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osyrQJfo0i0

>>4989980
why are you like this please stop hatching
be neater, god. there's no excuse for scratchy lines digitally

>>4990032
arms should be longer than 1/3rd of a head height.

>>4990187
idk i guess i won't shade for now. but how the fuck am i supposed to learn how to shade then lol.

>>4989681
is that the coomer?

>>4990254
by using a broad brush and actually shading instead of making it look like he was wrestling with a house cat.

>>4989644
GaH! Wut the fuck is that!

Thoughts?

>>4990023
>>4990029
Thanks for the feedback. I tried to fix some of the issues. I know that the anatomy if the legs isn't perfect yet, but I'll stop for today and try to work more on it tomorrow.

>>4990254
you're learning accuracy now. stick to lines until you can copy.

>>4990307
i like these a lot. keep in mind origins and insertions of muscles (deltoids/trapezius on second girl is a little weird) and you might want to study feet because it looks like you struggled with those. also you're not sure where the ear and eye of girl on left is supposed to go so pay attention to that

>>4990310
I like the squeeze effect on the thigh, I always struggled with that

looking at work like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZyN-JI43nc

i just don't understand how toriyama can a pose and get proper proportions like this without using a reference.
i've practiced drawing mannequins and doing gestures, but every time i draw from imagination, it just ends up being messed up. is there some way i should be practicing drawing poses from imagination?

>>4989760
hey duder. you can overlay your reference and check what is off. the nose angle, forehead angle, thickness of the neck, and angle of the jaw seem to be the most off. Why don't ya give it another go? You're doing great.

>>4990323
He's done it enough that he can see it in his mind pretty much. Keep practicing imagination, but do it more periodically compared to drawing poses from life.

how long should i spend? this one took me 1 hour, but idk if i should spend more time on it or if its better to just start a new one.

>>4989644
la creatura..

>>4990323
Step 1: Become a professional, trained artist
Step 2: Try to get a weekly Shounen Jump spot for 6 years by making one-offs and short series' (1977-1983)
Step 3: Draw a weekly 18 page manga/comic for 11 years (Dragon Ball)

>>4990323
How often do you take a step back and look at your work? It's important to do not only observationally but when you're working from imagination as well. And don't be afraid to correct something that you recognize as a mistake, or draw the pose again next to it or something

>>4990332
Do another one because this is still off. Then do it again.

>>4990330
>>4990336
>>4990338
thanks friends, i won't give up

I drew hands. Tell me what's bad about them.

how do I draw lines without it looking like I have cerebral palsy? most of the lines in this pic were drawn with my hand over ctrl z because I had to make 1-5 attempts every line and it still looks messy. will I naturally get neater lines with practice? i've never had good handwriting.

>>4990369
Yes, you will get better with practice. I'm still beg with digital, but after a month or so with my tablet my lines are much smoother. Embrace ctrl+z. It just means you get to practice making more lines.

Just keep drawing. I try to use my shoulder a bit more if possible.

>50+ hours of pc gaming every week of the year
nothing

>3 hours of drawing
wrist is sore

what do?

>>4990332
you can overlay your rendition on top of the ref to see exactly where you're off to improve faster

>>4990379
put more strain on your arm and less on your wrist. take breaks. do stretches/yoga on a regular basis.

>>4989644
La ogrilia de aborto

>>4990369
How often do you do muscle memory exercises?

Fill a page with straight lines, zigzags, circles, and patterned squiggles of varying sizes and varying angles. Really fill it, like make it black basically.

The answer is that it will come in time with practice, but there are ways you can practice that will help more than just straight drawing will.

>>4990379
look up artist stretches/wrist stretches, take breaks, focus more on arm movement than wrist movement when you can by working larger scale and on an easel/wall vs on a table

Day 2 of learning to actually draw, got bored of loomis so just drew my hand.

Sides of hands are more curved than that, pinky looks like a sausage. Porportions seemed okay other than that I think? Some of the creases look.... off somehow and I cant tell. Thumb gave me huge trouble and i think its off still because that side of the hand isnt curved enough. My lines are shit and vaguely placed, erased wayyyy too much.

Any tips on good ways to practice linework or practicing perception in general?

Before I decide to start pettin my lines, any thing really off?

going through keys for the heck of it.

>>4990422
do that pose yourself right now and ask yourself what works and what doesn't. her left wrist is odd to me but you might find more appears.

also her ass is unrealistically large but I think you meant it that way so good job

>better than shit tier or very beginner tier
>art wouldn't be considered "good" though
this is hell

Gonna try draw 20 boxes a day for 10 days. Are there guiding principles I should consider other than "lines converge away from the veiwer" or "VPs lie on a horizon line"? I feel like something is missing in my approach when I draw boxes aimlessly

Want some judgement on something I did.

>>4990449
if you haven't already, please consider drawing a box from life. Perhaps do a series of them where you rotate the box and then animate it when you're done to see how consistent you are.

>>4990332
you're missing the point of using construction.

go back to drawing spheres cubes and cylinders

>>4990364
looks like its owners suffered some sort of hydraulic press accident

>>4990523
how can i miss the point of construction if i wasnt even using construction... im just trying to improve accuracy

>>4990466
The shading is very strange, partially (I suspect) because of your usage of a soft brush. It looks more like she's been glazed with cum.
The shorts/underwear has the same problem, due to the way it's shaded it looks like she pissed her pants and I'm mostly imagining a diaper.
Unironically try it with the hard round brush and be more decisive with your shapes. Did you use a ref for this?

hands and draping hair is pain. Having fun though.

How do draw like this, /ic/ bros?

>>4990687
dont

>>4989739
Pyw

What social media should I use for what?
Twitter/Instagram: daily sketches (gesture)
DeviantArt/Pixiv: finished works
artstation: portfolio
patreon: commissions
facebook, tumblr...?
if I have some sketch about new ideas or designs, and I want to share it, where?
What about course's exercises, training (practicing new concepts)?
If I'm learning some "tabu" things (anatomy about furry, loli or racial) or sketching dark things (like guro), should I use a second account? or Tumblr is safe now?

>>4990687
But I want to draw like that, bro.

>>4990700
Fuck, wanted to reply to >>4990690
I just want to draw anime, bro.

>>4990364
wrists are too small and to the side of the hand, make the hand come from more of the "center" of the wrist. they're also too saggy

vilppu is the best

>>4990379
take the shoulder pill bro, use the wrist for only the small areas. I have tendinitis so I have to be careful not to overdue it too, but im mostly fine if i use shoulder.

>>4990379
Dyel

>>4990687
Anime style is a meme
Don't think anime = good art

>>4990731
based anime is fucking gay

I still feel like I'm losing my mind, do I have to relearn how to make lines properly with an easel or what? Trying to draw ellipses on it has me feeling like a child again. They're so intensely shakey.

Does this hand make sense at all?
It's meant to be holding a cylindrical object in the left hand (it doesn't extend far into the palm)
I tried to reference this with my own hand but the direction of the hand was impossible to do and it would just end up being very contorted when I turned it towards myself.

>>4990738
Even pros hate ellipses, they are hard, don't worry about it and just practice

>>4990742
Have you tried a mirror?

>>4990743
Don't have a hand mirror and I'd have to run between bathroom and my office to compare

what's the best site to use for figure drawing?

I drew my gf

Posted this Roll in the other thread, would like critique (I know the torso and pelvis are too flat, working on fixing it right now)

>>4990780
Cute

>>4990802
pedo

>>4990802
basedo

>>4990802
reported your acc

>>4990846
If nips can do it, why can't he?

>>4990846
>>4990812
roll is a bot retards

>>4990802
Work on your anatomy and form before you go for these crazy angles otherwise you're just making things unnecessarily difficult for yourself.

why is drawing so tiresome? one and a half hours of this and it feels like I've been desperately trying to solve for x or something

>>4990908
you lack fundies so your brain is constantly trying to problem solve instead of just drawing naturally

Critique my rendering. Self-taught over the past ~3 months by looking at pics I like.

>>4990908
If you get tired of a drawing, drop it and start drawing something else, especially when you're learning. Don't get hung up on polishing turds. It's quantity >>>>>>>>> quality at this point.

>>4990417
Begs who post after making one drawing are truly the most obnoxious people on this board bar none

>>4990445
That is a very long hell anon and will last for the rest of int while you keep learning and see even more mistakes than you see now

>>4990916
What rendering?

>>4990696
dad.gallery for everything

>>4990963
Sorry brainfart I meant inking and coloring

>>4989891
The tightness of the shillouette makes it look a bit awkward and blobby, I'd recommend adding some highlighting to give a basic idea of where stuff like the helmet or left arm are.
It is badass as fuck though.

>>4990975
The inking is fairly inconsistent, the lines sometimes disappear but not consistently enough to imply that that side is just getting hit by light, the waist wrap is lined really thickly for some reason and so is the car (fading the lines still pushes it into the background, but it's odd that the thickest linework is in the background while the focus is thin and scratchy.) Basically you don't know how to properly manage your lines yet and you need more study and lots more practice.

The second thing about lines is that they're supposed to represent the form. The folds on the shirt are completely made up and unconvincing, which means the lines are just wrong. In terms of form your anatomy is garbo aswell, she looks like she's made of sausages. No linework will save a poor understanding of form. Spend some time drawing rather than inking, study form and construction, anatomy and drapery. Better understanding of these will allow you to more accurately use your lines to describe them.

There's little to say about colour, it's pretty much just flats. Imo focus on the other things for now and come back to colour later.

I'm really having an hard time to find a good mannequinizzation or some sort of figure simplification to understand better the 3d forms.
Can you give me some advice please?

>>4990994
The one you're using is perfectly serviceable, we can't know which one you're gonna prefer. Feel free to browse loomis, hampton, bridgman, proko at your leisure and see if what they offer is more to your taste, or alternatively just do a load of figure studies (croquis, ref packs, etc) and try to see how your current method relates to the form and how you can improve it.
Study more anatomy and draw more and you'll naturally come up with more useful simplifications and more accurate ways of using them

How should I go about drawing this kind of coat? Im a bit intimidated on how to start

>>4990991
aight it makes sense that I should study these things as I have not even heard of them, I pretty much just sat down and drew this (also btw the background isn't inked etc yet, just the girl) Thank you for taking the time

Any critique? They look good to me but that's never a good sign.

>>4991012
big -> small

Way too early to start coloring but here I am

>>4991017
It's just fundamentals, anatomy is the skeleton, musculature and proportions of the human body; drapery is basically cloth physics and is essential for understanding how folds are created and how fabric behaves; construction is the vessel for building these things from imagination, it's essentially about understanding three dimensional form and building it up from simple primitives. Developing your understanding of these and practising them extensively will allow you to see and fix all the issues that I mentioned.

Linework comes at the end of it all - it doesn't stand by itself, but rather it's used to depict all that knowledge in an appealing way. If your forms are correct, then you can start playing around with different line weights and deciding what you're gonna emphasise and where you will place your lines and how they will flow. Improving linework before improving the fundamentals beneath it is jumping the gun at this stage, but don't neglect it completely, and keep coming back to these full inked poses AS you study the other stuff in order to incorporate the knowledge better. Good luck

>>4991027
More loomis and anatomy and more lighting and values. That said, it's never too early to start anything, but stay critical and keep looking for ways to improve and don't forget your other fundies

>>4990990
>>4989901
Thanks :)
>The tightness of the silhouette makes it look a bit awkward and blobby
It's because i did it on a whim. I didn't really figure out what he's doing with his hands or arms... no sketch underneath this. Maybe I'll do something similar but more elaborate later.

i am trying to render.

This pose is a pain.

>>4991095
Egg looks noice and moist!

>>4991133
I'll make your eggs nice and moist.

>>4991133
is that good

>>4990780
How about you draw my gf.

>>4991023
You're better off asking /alt/ or the anime threads because people here are absolutely about anything that isnt realism

>>4991095

>>4991012
drew this ref

drew this on /i/ today

>>4991148
thank you for the redline. i will try again. i don't know what each of the question marks means because i'm stupid. also, what do you mean by "brushwork is the same everywhere"? should i change the brush size, or use a different brush?

>>4991152
So how did you go about this? did you do the outline of the fur of where the fur would be and use shadows and shading to give the illusion of death?

>>4991153
cute

>>4991155
they roughly relate to the notes i made on the reference. the top question mark is about the random hard edge when it should be much softer, the L shaped one in the middle is about the shape of the shadow itself, why is there a sudden corner there when the form is consistently smooth and round? The bottom one is about the terminator and reflected light, you seem to have ignored those aspects of the shadow there and just painted it as a flat plane.

The brushwork comment is about having random hard edges everywhere, it looks like it was daubed all over by an angled square brush or something and there's no actual "rendering" happening. where the edge should be soft, you instead have a collection of overlapping hard edges.

you can either put more effort into blending where necessary, or use a different brush with a softer edge where appropriate, but either way much more consideration needs to be made for the edges. if you look at the reference, the transition of the form shadow on the egg is incredibly soft, there's no definite line there, but you've drawn it in more or less the same way as every other transition. it looks like you're trying to soften it with values, like the cast shadow - just more overlapping hard edges with different steps of grey. it works from a distance but as soon as you look at it up close it's much less appealing. maybe you're trying to go painterly, but let go of stylistic concerns for now and focus on accurate representation rather than "aesthetic" brush strokes

>>4989987
I'd say so, but I'm also a /beg/ger

>>4991184
goddamn, thank you for this detailed crit. i appreciate it.

please help me draw a better boob grabbin hand

>>4991171
>vaguely draw the whole coat
>draw contours of the leather/cloth parts, their shape is easier to get down
>vaguely mark out the fur fringes around the leather and the pelts.
>fill the big chunks of deep shadow. again because the shape is way easier to get down
>vaguely put down the light/medium values. a pain in the ass.
>go nuts fucking about with the fur texture, trying to pick specific details off the ref.

>>4991223
Ask your mom for help

>>4991223
this isn't a hand as much as a collection of flattened tubes. it looks like it belongs to a wacky tube man or a chinese replica mickey mouse
the joints are completely indecipherable, the index is broken, either the pinky is growing out of the wrong place or the palm is shaped like a remote control and it's unnaturally long, i have no idea which because it's so mangled. do some more hand studies and if you can't find one from this angle then do the impossibly difficult work of grabbing something in the mirror and taking a picture

>>4991223
LMAFO

>>4991223
https://mega.nz/folder/YlpAlKJY#uFGaGkuSO0Ti8U7EzQbyMw/folder/sxZlCaqS
don't skip fundies anon. drawing hot anime girls should come later

>>4991279
>drawing hot anime girls should come later

>>4991296
hot anime girls should come at the same time as studies.

boob grabbin hand anon, the hand was alright, people here are being mean

>>4991311
The hand was not alright at all, and he knew it, which is why he posted here. Why he deleted his post is a mystery

>>4991314
bad phrasing. "alright" meaning "within a reasonable degree of fucky"

So i made it read from left to right and fix some stuff.

What are good resources to learn how to make good panels and planing manga pages?

>>4991314
embarrassment
t. boobhand

>>4991323
ily boobhand anon. you can model the pose yourself by clutching a pillow or something

>>4991323
i gave you the mega link and didn't mean to be rude. don't let anything here get to you. just take the advice and learn from what you post. that is the point of the /beg/ general, not to crab on beginners.

>>4991327
Or your ass and look in a mirror. Better yet if you've got gyno.

>>4991320

>>4991331
>>4991327
i'll do my best!
thanks for the mega link

>>4991323
Leave your posts up so people can see what the critique is aimed at and maybe learn from it themselves. There's no reason to be embarrassed on an anon board, much less in the dedicated beginner thread

>>4990857
>>4990846
>>4990840
It got deleted for some reason?

>>4990857
Thanks for the advise anon, makes sense. I guess always playing videogames on the hardest difficulty from the get-go gave me a bad habit

>>4991335
aight, I'll remember that for the future
boob grab 2.0

>>4991340
who are you taking drawing lessons from? quick before you get deleted

>>4991348
Digits look much better than last time, although it feels more like this hand is grabbing a cliff edge than a soft lump of flesh

>>4991012
Imagine a fur-less version, you'll add it later
Now sketch the coat with 3 basic shapes
Then break down each 3 basic shapes into 3 more, then again
Then only repeat for focal areas eg hands, chest, belt
Considering perspective, redraw over these guidelines so every line hangs downwards and along the seams (the 'banding curves' you can imagine on the coat) to imply weight - use line weight accordingly.
Add your fur back as a textured outline and render. Give it a try

>>4991348
SOFTER

>>4991354
I referenced it but the girl in the ref pic is flat chested so that might explain it

>>4991340
based cunny poster

>>4991359

>>4991350
Loomis. Why?

Hello /ic Arabfag in here is there anything I should change before finishing the whole piece.

>>4990742

>>4991372
different angle

I tried those semi-chibi with hard edges style but it's harder than what I expected, for the most part the waist down looks wrong, right?
can't even see how to fix it by now
or should I just choose another angle

First drawing I did in the past 4 months, I didn't have a reference expect for the character. Wish I could stop feeling horrible about everything. What could I have done to make the hair better?

>>4991184
As another beg trying to learn rendering digitally, do you recommend changing brushes? I've been trying to stick to one brush and just adjusting size as needed.

Honestly what confuses me most is whether I should be using opacity with pen pressure, or setting opacity manually and turning pen pressure off. One teacher says one way, another says another way.

It seeeeems like there are multiple ways to render and it's up to whatever is your preference. But in the beginning it's been tough to get a bearing.

>>4991396
>>4991184
egg beg here with the same questions.

people also say that one should exclusively render with hard round. what are your thoughts on this?

>>4990916
I'd rather fix the anatomy.

>>4991396
This is my second attempt follow Hardy Fowler's method. It made more sense to me than others (his was no opacity pressure, stick to ~30% opacity)

I'm just so confused.

>>4991406
what method is this?

>>4991377
Not about the angle anon san, about the way flesh deforms when it is grabbed, which is the issue in question

>>4991417
so what exactly should i change?

>>4991410
I was following Hardy Fowler's "Art Fundamentals in One Hour" video

>>4991421
30 secs in mspaint
pause the gif that guy linked at one of the later frames and copy the way the flesh deforms under her fingers

>>4991426
aight. there's a lot of boob grabbin drawings where that doesn't happen but i guess i'll try it

>>4991396
You answered your own question at the end. Personally, I use pen pressure mapped to opacity and keep opacity at 100 by default, so when I press lightly I get 20% and when I press hard it's fully opaque.
>>4991402
The reason people say to use hard round is so that you don't fall into the trap of relying on brushes as a crutch. You've seen these people - "what brush can I use to paint like this?" and people who use texture brushes before understanding what rendering is about and end up with a grimy mess. The hard round brush, mapped to opacity, is capable of making hard edges and soft transitions, and you can use it to handpaint textures once you understand materials and rendering better. Basically it's simple, effective, can do pretty much everything you need and forces you to focus on your understanding of painting itself. Other brushes become more useful much much later on, when you're looking for easy texture, or you're bashing together a landscape and you need to quickly imply a treeline or tiretracks or the texture of the grass, it's quicker to just use a custom brush dedicated for that than having to handpaint it all.

But things like texture come after the basic fundamentals of form and light, and they always, without fail, look amateur in digital when used by someone who doesn't know how to paint. You'll know when you're at a stage when using textured brushes benefits you and saves time, and it's not now and not for a while yet. Textured brushes are also useful for trying to replicate a traditional result, but this is icing - the focus of studies is on process and understanding, on creating a better and more convincing image, not on making it look like it was trad painted.

>>4991375
Establish a light source, painting is too soft, add more values

>>4991433
Interesting. Rendering with pen pressure mapped feels more like rendering with a pencil, and rendering with a fixed ~30% opacity has felt more like rendering with copic markers (these are my only two areas of experience with traditional). I guess I just need to experiment more. Mapping opacity to pen pressure felt really awkward to me, but I want to give it another go.

>>4991446
Yeah, your concern is completely common among everyone who is starting to learn digital. Just find something you like for the time being and stick with it for a while, you can always change it later when you become more comfortable with how digital painting works.

Personally, I'd recommend the pressure=opacity hard round because painting on a low opacity by default creates those hard edge overlaps that you can see in the egg drawing, similar to placing two thick copic strokes halfway overlapping. This will make soft edges much more annoying to achieve and create janky values where overlapping strokes are of a different value than non-overlapping ones, despite the same colour being selected.

>>4991320

>>4991448
This has been incredibly helpful. I was struggling with those types of hard edges, taking a lot of time to blend and colorpick to smooth them out. I've avoided rendering for the past few months and just been focusing on construction, draftsmanship, etc. because of how awkward it feels digitally.

On a technical note, do you recommend 0% minimum, and should flow also be mapped to pen pressure? Setting up my brush for rendering now, pic related.

>>4991448
For the egg drawing, I actually had pressure mapped to opacity
Is the issue me pressing down too hard, or is the issue me using hard square instead of hard round?

>>4991452
a brief example of what i meant, left is full opacity with pressure and right is ~30% opacity with pressure. the overlaps still happen, but they're much easier to control without creating further overlaps, so blending becomes much more consistent

the minimum is really personal preference, all it means is how low the opacity will go with the lightest press (instead of 0%-100% the range will be [minimum]%-100%). you can play around with it but my settings are the same as yours here, so you can get extremely light strokes by pressing lightly.

>>4991454
yes i know, i just used it as an example of hard edge overlaps. the issue of edge control is mostly pressure related once you know what kind of edge you want, assuming you're using a hard brush. the square brush will naturally create more jagged edges than the round one but in terms of making soft gradients, it can be done with either.

>>4991462
another example

you'll get comfortable with this and how to use it as you paint more

.>>4991355
>>4991232
Haha, I completely fucked up the fur. Was still fun though

>>4991320
Read any work by Fujimoto Tatsuki. His paneling is super intentional, and the guy is obsessed with being cinematic.

>>4989953
the difference in size between the eyes are too big.

>>4991473
it's very timid. don't be afraid of the dark.

>>4990324
>>4989729
The drawn face is more handsome than the original. Excellent shading.

>>4990379
also workout

>>4990369
Check what your stabilizer is set to then move it to the highest setting for straight lines. Move it to the lowest setting to make realistic uneven lines like crooked tree branches on easy mode.

>>4990417
Take pictures and use them as a refrence to help perception. For linework just draw basic shapes and shading by doing very light thin lines for highlights and dark lines near shadow.

>>4990445
>better than shit tier or very beginner tier
I am not even confident enough to say that

>>4990780
Based and doing art for the most ancient reason a man can.

>>4991522
Ill try that next time. Blacks scare me

>>4991558
Fuck I meant black tones or darker tones. Freudian slip

>>4991166
Megamind?

>>4991560
haha XDD xd

don't paint or shade with pure black until you understand value better and can use it appropriately, but push your contrasts, because this is washed out and flat. learn more about lighting

>>4991565
Gotcha

>>4991565
>>4991568
Also just to confirm, by pushing the contrasts you mean darkening the shadows (like in pic related) and brightening the highlights?
Gonna read some stuff in the sticky after this, and call this done and move on

>>4990735
no anon anime is japanese cartoons, fucking gay is gay sex!

>>4991585
ARGH I MAKE COOM COOM

>>4990696
try everything in everywhere. social medias are changing all the time. no one know what is working right now just what worked in the past

>>4991580
yes, playing with shadow intensity and expanding the value range. you need to understand lighting to understand this - where is the light source, how are the shadows being cast, are they soft edged or hard edged, how dark are they (ambient occlusion, local value, etc. etc.)

that is the correct approach. getting married to one work at this stage is counter-productive. read about this, do some studies and practice it, and then in your next work try to incorporate it.

>>4991604
>>that is the correct approach. getting married to one work at this stage is counter-productive. read about this, do some studies and practice it, and then in your next work try to incorporate it.
Thats exactly what I've been trying. Ive been doing a "1 drawing a day" approach, and after that some studying. Its been working out pretty well.
Ill probably do Proko again, his teachings are good

>>4991392
>What could I have done to make the hair better?
theres more than hair to make better...

Earlier in the thread I was told I suck (true) and I need to study "form and anatomy". This inspired me to draw this, based on looking at a nude model pic for reference. Did I do good /ic/? Please tell me in which ways to improve so as to suck less.

what the fuck is wrong with the face here? I can tell the eye is way off but I'm not sure what the problem is. I tried moving it around a ton and this was the closest I could get it to not looking derpy. not sure if the chin shape has something to do with it.

what's the tiniest brain way to learn perspective? perspective made easy is very confusing and 'what the fuck is going on please i can't understand' inducing.
>>4991701
did you copy/flip that hand? that's pretty funny.

>>4991710
yeah I totally did

>>4991701
can't tell if this is bait, just use aref and conpare

>>4991560
>>4991558
Hate Speech!!. AAAAAHHHHH MODS MODS MODS

>>4991701
she's falling over and there is no gesture in this at all, the arms and legs are sausages, the hands are very strange perfectly mirrored symbols and the feet are pretty rough. you're spending extra time on making it look like cute anime gorl for no reason

the same feedback as before still stands. please don't just do one drawing and call it a day. pick out these areas individually and focus on them over larger quantities of drawings. spend 50 drawings focusing on the legs - how does the anatomy work, how does the gesture work and what rhythms and asymmetries can i see, how does it look from this angle and from 10 other angles. then draw it from your head from all those angles and see how it works out, critique yourself based on your observations and your references and do it again. this is how you will see improvement, keep going

>>4991462
>>4991469
Thanks again, yeah I will keep trying to get accustomed to 100% with opacity mapped to pen pressure. I think the 30% fixed opacity with no pressure worked okay for me since I'm so accustomed to working from light dark with copics.

>>4991715
lol why? if this is a study, don't scam yourself like that.
also post the ref.

How does one get good at making finished drawings? I feel that I'm only good at sketching, and my final lineart looks underwhelming. Any recommendations, videos, etc?

>>4991539
thank you for making me aware of this feature. odd how I had to go into brush settings and actually enable it. I wouldnt have figured it out unless someone told me.
is there a typical percent value that you stay at while doing basic drawing?

>>4991732
You're right, I redid the one hand (also tried to fix some things). Here is the ref I used (2nd pic): https://gr.pinterest.com/pin/517984394625290525/
>>4991716
W-why would this be bait? Is it that bad?
>>4991721
Thank you I will certainly keep trying

>>4991735
I do the highest setting for basic drawings. I also use force fade which I really like to use set to the default 40% fade. The fade to a point mimics real pen strokes nicely so you can transfer skill with pen and paper to tablet easier in my opinion. You have to do long confident strokes to avoid chicken scratch though. I will admit I do the long stroke, delete and redo like 4 times, then when I get it right, I either use the laso tool on any crooked spot or just erase and straighten any crooked parts.

Can I use a mouse to get lines like this? Also how to do this watercolor thing on krita

>>4991755
buy a tablet or just paint trad in watercolour

>>4991755
maybe if you try hard enough for long enough, but why would you do that?

>>4991755
Stop using a mouse. Get a pen tablet.

>>4991704
Chin is off. The tip should be thinner than the jaw line. Here's is vice versa so she has a small jaw that sinks in. Her eye is very cute and in a great spot. I like your style. You also really need to work on line work. Make strokes fast in one go at a time and then correct them. It looks like you are moving the stylus slow to be careful but that is a rookie mistake. Make big confident strokes, then correct. Pic related is a example of more straight lines. I didn't follow your lines exactly with the hair because that is where the fast strokes took me and I liked how it turned out, not a correction on your choice of hair curls placement.

I know it looks bad but I was trying to go for this style >>4991755 again, fun but not good

>>4991762
Im missing my water color paper and water color pencils, so ive got nothing
>>4991765
Missing those things
>>4991813
I know, tried to color one yesterday
Was it fun? Yeah, was it worth it? Nah

>>4991820
>had to trace over my lines with a mouse
Painful

>>4991528
Thank you. That's probably why the nose doesn't match that well, I unintentionally gave him more "standard" one.
>>4990324
Thanks. I'll try again later some time.

Also, here's today's studies. Need to work on proportions a lot more, but I feel like my shading skills are improving a lot.

>>4991816
what

>>4989592
babby level attempt at shading

>>4991820
Actually shittier than I remember

>>4991820
Not bad, has soul. Try to achieve better watercolor effect now and it'll be much better. For now it looks like bad markers.

>>4991387
I feel like it would look better if the legs were thicker and feet were bigger. Look how big semi-chibi's legs and feet are - right now it feels as if you're mixing different styles. Also it'll look better if you add some shadows on legs. But otherwise looks cute.

>>4991844
how does this happen in digi?

>>4991844
this is kind of cool

>>4991816
yeah, I know my lines are messy and I actually am drawing them fast, I've just always had shaky hands for some reason.
what do you mean by correcting the lines? do you just mean undoing it until it looks good? someone in this thread just told me about smoothing so I should be able to do nicer lines now.

I wanna try painting digitally simple outdoor backgrounds, mimicking the style in pic related. How should I go about learning?

Daily watercolor. Fucked up the shirt so it turned into a blob which ate most of her right arm and left forearm. Anyone know a good way to do hair with medium size brushes? Or do I bite the bullet and to a bunch of individual strands with a fine brush?

>>4991872
Yes, do what that other post said for correcting shaky lines. That was me samefagging. I wanted to make sure you saw a example of how cute your work could be with lines that dont wiggle and thin to a thin point instead of the same line thickness throughout like a coloring book. Sorry my post was unclear. I'm self taught so I don't throw around the proper phrases and wording like I should.

>>4991901
can you please post your work?

Do i feel the form?

>>4991679
thats obvious. i know theirs loads wrong with it, im just asking for a specific as thats what i thought was the worst part about it.

>>4991928
well? do you?

>>4991929
i will argue you about the legs and drappery being the worst

>>4991931
Being honest i think i know what am i doing but its might be illusion.

>>4991934
is it the rendering or anatomy of the legs? or at least which part of the leg or drapery so i know what i can focus on next time.

>>4991937
judging by the back alone i would say you're certainly feeling the form somewhat. there's obviously still lots to be desired here (hands and feet, thick imposing linework, reflected light around the ass and legs, copout hair, overall style, etc. etc. i'm sure you know) but you're definitely heading in the right direction with the form and you should keep going. proud of you

>>4991320

Is it true that you have to be able to have a command of realistic art before trying stylized? IE, do you actually have to be capable of Norman Rockwell levels of skill in order to do stylized stuff like John Blanche? Pic related.

>>4991320

>>4991962
you have to understand what you're trying to depict, if you go into heavy stylization before having a solid grasp of what you're stylizing it will end up looking like a poor imitation rather than a strong style. yes fundamentals are important, but not to the absolute extreme - because rockwell's fundies are MUCH stronger than pic left, and pic left is riddled with fundamental issues which rockwell would never make.

simply put, if you want to recreate pic left, you don't need rockwell's level of knowledge, but you still need a lot of fundamental knowledge.

if you want to recreate pic left but better, you'll need to go beyond that in fundamental skill and approach closer to rockwell. fundies aren't just about muh photorealism portraits

Jesus Christ I'm shit at rendering. Any direction would be appreciated.
>>4991423
Is that a video you have to pay for?

>>4991320

>>4991982
at least fix the perspective of the cylinder

>>4991975
makes sense. how much work/years would I need to get to adrian smith/karl kopinsky levels, like pic related? Im not gunna get anywhere near it, but its interesting to know.

>>4991320

>>4991982
you're not shit at rendering, you're shit at everything

not snabbing, draw a lot more. like a hell of a lot more. do long drawings and try to accurate measure, draw very many of them, if you want a manual to follow maybe go somewhere like peter han, but just draw a hell of a lot more before asking for critique on more advanced concepts like rendering

>>4991333
>>4991451
>>4991960
>>4991971
>>4991984
>>4991994
Made me gigle but I hope this will not spread further.
I don't wanna be a meme.

>>4991510
Looks dope, thanks for recomendation

>>4991854
Soul? That's the first time I hear something like that, I'll clean up the pencil and do it the proper way later, I'm toying around with watercolor and I'd do it the trad way but the paper is not meant for it.

>>4991993
this is a pointless metric because people spend their time in effective ways and not so effective ways, and also learn differently

pic right requires a solid understanding of anatomy, gesture, drapery, materials and lighting, values and value structures, and some composition, as well as solid brushwork - but the bulk of the hours comes from practising these time and time again, not just from learning them in theory. there's no way to put an accurate time estimate on this, but certainly no less than five years (and this is assuming you are working hard consistently and thinking critically). realistically, longer than that

>>4992014
and bear in mind, this fictional five years is assuming everything goes perfectly and you're a machine god when it comes to learning, which is rarely the case and hence the disclaimers

>>4991982
just go to draw a box man, and stop fucking rendering before you can draw basic shapes and know basic perspective

>>4992014
>>4992023
So what you're saying is that it's impossible without literally working towards it til the day I die. Because I'm 24 going on 25 and everyone knows that once you hit thirty you start deteriorating and at 36 it's all down hill, then you die a couple decades later as a broken mess.
Although, Best I could hope for is fun little doodles with acceptable anatomy, perspective, and texture, right?

Behold, my sickest lineart. I originally only drew the mecha but the pose was too simply so I added that girl holding a cat, that hand may or may not be right

Sorry if this is off-topic, but I'm about to begin learning how to draw hair and I could use references, many of them. Aside from finding a place with good pictures, I have a hard time finding the name of certain hairstyles. Anyone got any useful pages for that?

>>4991993
Karl Kopinski had been drawing for around 5 years when he started working for GW.

"One of the most effective things you can do to build better habits is to join a culture where your desired behavior is the normal behavior. "

>>4992045
i never said it was impossible, kopinski has done it which should be pretty great evidence to the contrary. start drawing today and have faith (by this i mean don't get crabbed into depression, and stay on the lookout for improvement always) and you will make great progress long before you're 30.

time has this funny way of expanding and contracting based on how you spend it, and certainly if you let it while away then you won't get much done at all.

while you may not be at kopinski level by then, you'll be a hell of a lot closer than you are now. if you're talking about 36, you have almost 12 years and every single resource on the internet at your disposal - pic right is achievable.

please bear in mind that art has much better diminishing returns than other professions as far as age goes. practically speaking you'll only slow down mentally with any significance past middle age, or maybe if you get parkinsons, but up to that point you can keep learning and improving and your skill and drawing experience will only increase. you don't have to resign when you're 36 - this may actually be the beginning of the peak for you, or it may not, if you do nothing.

whatever you decide on, don't be so hopeless. some fears you have might be valid, but acting like a downtrodden already-failed write-off is a great way of literally ensuring that you don't get anywhere

>>4992045
No? Age doesnt matter. Going back to Karl, he was 26 when he started working in the illustration industry, hes 49 now, he still draws everyday, and hes still getting better.
Dont let some stupid number discourage you, just do it anyways. I wanna draw cool warhammer art also, just keep practicing and in a few years youll get it

>>4992061
>>4992045
Also Vlippu is a fucking old fart at 84 and he still draws and learns, even if he is one of the best.

>>4992049
Mech is badass
Cat looks a bit tarded, but still good

>>4991982
It's a vid that you can pay for if you so choose... And like other anons said, I encourage you to forget about rendering for now and focus on construction and perspective first.

Did some correction because that hand was bothering me

>>4992065
Nice. The cat being tarded was on purpose kek

I keep hearing Andrew Loomis - Drawing the Head and Hands is a more advanced book. I've been reading Keys To Drawing by Bert Dodson then I plan to read Perspective Made Easy by Ernest Norling THEN andrew loomis' books. is this a good idea or should I study other work in between?
pls reply

>>4991854
Yeah, I used like a 3+1/2 heads and maybe I should have used another half for the legs+feet, already colored it so I'll keep that in mind for next time. Also I agree with it looking like I used many styles at once.

>>4992106
For Loomis, IIRC everything but Fun with Pencils is intermediate stuff and they reference each other.

>>4992106
you have the correct order, loomis will ask you to draw horizon lines and spheres and contours and you'll need to understand basic perspective concepts for that

Going through Huston's figure drawing course.
Can I ask for a little bit of critique, encouragement, demeaning words, anything?

>>4992145
look up straights v curve

>>4992148
what if the entire thing is meant to be interesting?

>>4992160
You'd be drawing bumpy balls and bumpy balls ain't interesting, anon.

>>4992160
imagine you're composing a song. you don't make the entire song top volume so that everyone pays attention to the whole thing. you have quiet spots in the song to make contrast because contrast is interesting.

>>4992148
Is this some stylistic choice? Huston says something completely different?
I am really lost here.

>>4992184
what's he say anon

>>4992184
>Simple but characteristic
>Like the flow of water.
>Eggs

>>4992179
what the fuck am i looking at

>>4992179
t. nirvana

>>4992187
>>4992185

>>4991942
your lack of anatomy is the problem, i think most begs think that if they simplify the limbs with cones,tubes,etc.. is enough, but you need to learn the muscle masses so you can convey the proper form when you draw, isntead of drawing sausages, use a 3dpd ref and try to see the muscles or forms in your animu refs obviously your pick better be a good one that's why starting to draw anime instead of learning the ol' masters books is a beg trap since you can barely distinguish a properly stylized anatomy ugh....

anyway as for the drappery,i myself im still pretty beg at it but yours is beyond negative beg, can't help you too much with that other than some few tips
choice if you are going full stylized and play to those rules, her clothes are fabric but they are shaped almost as if they were latex with the only ''drappery'' being close to the ropes? unlike her sleeves, if theres a force pushing/pressing the rest of the clothes will uh react/deform accordingly, but the right tit looks like is being cut by the rope or is her tit made by some really hard material on that note again anatomy here is your problem tits dont work like that, they are soft if something is wrapping it with that force they will squish a lot at least for that dentation in your pic and not remaining almost completely normal... To be able to draw wrinkles and stuff you will need to really learn 3D forms at semi advanced level since you need to think how does apulling force deform an area and how does the rest deform and then convey those forms with a propper lineart so is kinda hard for that reason is better keep it simple and going in detail only if you are confident with your skills not like me in the pic....

also i think you are the guy who used to post those touhous with big tits right? if you are him then i have redlined your shit a lot im dissapointed you are still having the same problems after all those months.... you truly make the ANIMECHADS look bad...

end of broken engrish.

Did this in 2 days. How shit is it? Am I /NGMI/?

>>4992179
>>4992148
Thanks for the reply anyway. I am going back to the drawing board.

>>4992106
>I plan to read Perspective Made Easy by Ernest Norling
Read How to Draw by Scott Robertson, or rather the first 8 or so chapters.Perspective Made Easy doesn't really go very far. Everything found in PME is in the Scott Robertson book, and you'll learn more from the Scott Robertson book.
>THEN andrew loomis' books
If your focus is figure drawing I'd go with Michael Hampton's Figure Drawing Design and Invention over Loomis. Mostly because it goes in depth on how all the body parts connect and are proportioned, AND it assumes you're new to figure drawing. The structure of the Michael Hampton book is really good.

NEW THREAD!

>>4992216

NEW THREAD!

>>4992216

NEW THREAD!

>>4992216

cringe op

>>4992063
>>4992061
>>4992059
>>4992055
Thanks guys. Just got off shift, sorry for late reply. I'll dig out my old cheap Wacom tablet I bought in high school and have had buried in a desk draw throughout three houses.
Tired of being defeatist, I'll give it a go when I get out of camp(may look into ways of drawing at work on my laptop. 12 hour security shifts in the middle of the woods is uneventful).