/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Hello

>>4988426
I want to fuck that miko

>>4988427
Hi

>>4988427

>>4988426
I work as a software engineer, I go to work from 7 AM to 9 PM from sun to thurs, at the weekends, I just sleep because I'm tired, and when I actaully try to draw, my boss calls me
>ANON! the fucking university of Shaqra is down, CHECK IT NOW!
It pays well, but the problem is that I'm the best employee in the company, and the boss depends on me too much. I mostly draw like 6-10 hours a week. fml

I'M REGRESSING AGAIN IT'S NOT FAIR I DO THIS FOR HOURS A DAY

>>4988445
>I mostly draw like 6-10 hours a week
more than 60% of /ic/ does in a month gj

>>4988454
well, still, I mostly abandoned my social life for my passion. I rarely talk to my family and I ditched the idea of marriage. It is a tradeoff. still, I need to more times to know where this will go, It's been 3 months since I started.

>I need to more times
>I need more time
wtf have I written?

>>4988464
Art is a gamble. At least you won’t ever have to worry about money. For everyone else it’s make it or poverty forever.

>>4988451
Its very unlikely that you're actually regressing. Its more likely that your observational skills have started to improve which causes you to perceived your own work as of a lower quality.

As much as I'd like to be part of the art industry I rely on my art to escape. If I make it a job I'll have nothing else. TV and Cartoons barely spark joy in me. Going outside only feels good when im drawing out there. I guess I still have hiking

>>4988445
You can also just do a shitty job so your boss relies more on the second best person

>>4988502
BRRRRAAAAAPPPP

>>4988502
POOPA

>>4988617
b-but it is against my work ethics

>>4988617
Work ethic and discipline is very important, if he half ass his job, what makes you think he won’t do the same for drawing? More than half the board rarely draw because of that.

>>4988445
But anon in the other thread was talking about how much easier it is to make it as a non-artist? What are you complaining about?

>>4988730
It is though, you’re guaranteed on having a high pay job in fields like coding. For art you either money launder, spam coom/fanart in hopes you get a following, or nepotism.

>>4988451
>>4988494
improvement isn't real, it's just your observational skills regressing.

>>4988445
WHY the fuck are you working that late as a software engy????

don't you guys get done with work by 5 pm

I hate twitter but I dont know what other site to use to post my art.

>>4988849
why do you hate twitter ?
have you tried instagram or pixiv?

>>4988875
I dont feel like my shit is gonna be looked at by anybody and I am sick of reading retarded opinions on that site. Just gives me a bad feeling. I use instagram and it's ok, didnt give pixiv a chance yet since I dont draw anime. Thanks anon.

I’m so fucking sick of degeneracy. Is there somewhere that isn’t rammed with pedos and dog fuckers but isn’t a Reddit fagbox? Where is the middle ground

>>4989068
artstation

>>4989068
/ic/

>>4989071
Does it work as a forum? I thought it was more somewhere to host portfolios

>>4989068
You’re stuck here.

>>4989078
it's pretty much deviantart, just be prepared to feel bad about your own art while the site choke you with art that are way too good

>>4989092

Is Deviantart still actively being used? It's still a thing?

>>4989092
ya fuck this shit, it's filled with art grad students with professional portfolios and actual pros. I'd look like a fucking retard

>>4989097
its a shadow of its former self

>>4989097
It’s dead but comfy dead. Even the popular artists get very few favs now.

>>4989099
your only option is here or reddit then, kek. Looking like a retard in artstation is the equivalent of looking like a competent artist in /ic/ or reddit.

>>4989068
Doesn't fucking exist.
To begin with, only furries have real art platforms that serve their needs. Pixiv might allow lolicon but you have to censor everything, tumblr died, reddit is a reddit fagbox, twitter recompresses your images and shadowbans and cancels you, amino and discord are by design circlejerk bubble communities, the fediverse is fractured beyond repair and full of spambots...

If you haven't noticed, mainstream social media ejects users at such volume and rate that you can launch a successful alternate network every few months. And not a single platform does lossless uncensored images with complete subject freedom. There isn't a place where all of us who work the pen could gather together and just be friends and draw for fun and for money.

>Want to have a proper, genuine conversation without random antagonism and projecting
>Unable to do it on this board because everyone is retarded
>People making hyperbolic claims about artist that have been pioneers in their genre of art for several decades
>Ask them to prove their claims
>They proceed to bait and just reiterate that "I'm right, you're wrong"
>On the flip side every faggot and their mom will come out the wood work to defend their favorite coom artist on here, discord and twitter.
>Point out a glaring, consistent weakness that an artist has inside their work
>"You're just jealous he makes money and you don't" "You're just worse then them"
>No one can actually counter my observation
>No one actually posts their work
>Just want to have a genuine conversation
>Getting to the point where everyone in real life is injecting some passive aggression into regular conversation
>People talking about shit they have no idea about like their experts
>Gets mad at me because I don't want to listen to their ramblings
>No one actually reads about the things they have such a strong opinion you on
>Get called a asshole for telling people to relax or explaining to them how something works
>Feel like I'm surrounded by children most of the time even when I'm around people, especially those that are 20+ years older then me
>Getting to the point where I'm just getting irrationally angry at everyone for not meeting my standards
>Hate having this feeling but it just keeps growing
>Just want to speak to people without being angry by the end of the conversation.
>Just want to feel happy for more than 2 minutes
I'm really getting to the end of my rope. I might actually beat someone to near death at this point. Can't go to the gym because its so pack to the brim if I don't go at 6am. I'm starting to just hate everyone unconditionally.

>>4989149
>Gyms closed, Lockdown

Think yourself lucky and get in there at 6. That’s the golden hour. I’m at my tipping point with this shithole. Chinkmoot either does not give a single fuck or wants to give up users for the sake of degenerate retards. I don’t get the logic behind 4chan in this state as a business investment

>>4988730
I like drawing more than coding, but I have to code to make a living which results in me not having much time to draw.

>>4989149
you sound like an unbearable faggot, grow the fuck up

>>4988784
My job is from 9:00 AM to 6:00 PM, but it is pretty far away. time is wasted on road and I need 30 min to wake up from the bed.

>>4989192
You sound like a fucking nigger. Proving me right. Kill yourself.

>>4989149
>Want to have a proper, genuine conversation without random antagonism and projecting
>4chan
That was your first mistake, there are way too many autist for something like that too happen. Just do what any other sane/smart person would do browsing here, just shit post or get only the resources here. I was actually like you when I came here the first 2 months.

>>4989149
you should use the end of your rope to hang yourself, sounds like you're completely insufferable and self-absorbed and your ego is made of glass

I can draw every part of a human accurately except fucking legs, I hate legs so fucking much jesus christ

>>4989227
>Wanting to have a conversation without people getting hostile for no fucking reason is having a ego made of glass
Sounds like your the one who needs to fucking kill yourself. People like you think its fine to be retarded and unload their pent up emotions on to others then are surprised that other people have no fucking patience with your bullshit.

Decided to take a long break from drawing so I can focus on therapy and understanding what the hell cryptocurrency is, so I can buy drugs from the darknet.

Not a vent.

>>4989246
What are you talking about? You're seething and crying about random nobodies and then telling me to kill myself after saying "it's exactly this kind of behaviour that I detest". You can't stand being wrong and you're quite literally unloading your own pent up emotions here, and then you're acting surprised that I post a reply like the one I posted
You reek of hypocrisy, brother, and the problem is yours to fix. Don't shoot up any schools now

I hate /ic/

>>4989329
>Seething and crying
>How dare you vent in a vent thread
You literally told me to kill myself first you fucking mongrel. Are you actually fucking brain dead? How am I wrong for wanting a conversation that doesn't devolve into baiting? I genuinely don't understand your logic that I'm somehow wrong for feeling frustrated at people being passive aggressive.

>>4989339
And yet here you are participating in the devolution of this conversation into baiting by responding in kind and then calling me a fucking braindead Montreal, truly a master of praxis

The logic isn't that you're wrong, it's that you're an emotional wreck and you get led around by your sense of injustice done against you like a dog on a leash. There's nothing to stop you from just not replying to bait and continuing to be civil, and this would improve the quality of discussion somewhat, but you keep biting like you haven't been fed in weeks. People are inevitably going to be uncivil here, and in fact everywhere else to a lesser extent because of the lack of anonymity, and your solution to this is to try to beat them at their own game?

If you can't see why your venting is a display of your own flaws that you should try to fix, then there's not much hope and like I said, please don't shoot up a school

>>4989354
Lmao mongrel*

>>4989354
>Just don't participate
>Just don't vent or have feelings
Your logic doesn't make fucking sense because your telling me not to vent in a fucking vent thread. You're saying stupid shit and deliberately misconstruing what I'm saying, dismissing my main point and then saying "haha you're wrong because you called me retarded!" How the fuck is it a flaw being frustrated by people being retarded? And the problem is not civility, its people dragging me into the messes, then telling me I'm the problem for telling them to fuck off. I wouldn't care if this was just limited to just the internet. Real people are doing this shit to me on a regular basis. I'm supposed to shoulder everyone else emotional baggage and inadequacies, but as soon as I'm angry, I'm the problem? fuck off.

>>4989329
>>4989339
>>4989354
>>4989391
jesus christ you two are faggots

>>4989396
No, let them continue, this is hilarious

>>4989391
Only a retard would go to McDonalds when they want to buy a pizza.

Im making a seperate account for coomer art, what should my name be?

>>4989404
Coomer McCoomface

>>4989391
Bro you are borderline delusional, nobody drags you into any mess, you just have no impulse control. By all means spend the rest of your life trying to tell everyone you consider to be retarded to fuck off - for every "retard" you account for, there'll be thousands that you don't, and then at the end of it, having not solved any fraction of the problem you profess other people to have, you would've spent all your waking hours telling people to fuck off. As a CV for solid constructive discussion, this is pretty pathetic.

You yourself are now misconstruing what I said and getting angry about it. I didn't say you were wrong to feel the way you felt, once again - I said you end up hypocritically participating in the culture you want to eliminate because it hurts you if you don't, which has been quite well evidenced by this thread. You continue to gloss over this and disregard what I'm saying on the basis that it's not wrong for you to be frustrated at retards - and once AGAIN, I have said this is not the issue twice now. You are constantly seeing red mist and justifying your blooming misanthropic tendencies by saying it's not wrong for you to get angry at retards, and this is exactly what makes you so insufferable, and indeed exactly the kind of retard that you claim to hate

Maybe you need a meditative retreat somewhere, or some anger management courses perhaps

I have lost all drive to show my art around. Years ago I would sketch something and post it and someone would get a laugh out of it or say something about the picture or the joke. Sometimes someone described something funny or cool and I made a drawing of it and I got some appreciation back for it, it felt like there were real human beings behind the screen and these little things meant something and pushed me forward to do better and improve. I tried to have social media, I didn't expect people to be amazed but I remember getting more human interaction back in the days of Tumblr even if I didn't draw very fashionable stuff and I wasn't nearly as good as I am today. Now I feel like I'm lost in the noise, the last dozen or so things I've drawn and posted on small forums or boards were ignored completely, social media just the same. I feel that spark every now and then where I think "oh this would be a cool drawing" but then I just think that nobody would care and I'd be disappointed for the rest of the day. I really enjoyed that part of drawing something cool and sharing it with people and making someone happy for a second, but now it's all gone and as much as I hate to admit it I simply don't have as much fun as I used to if I'm locked in a bubble. Actually it makes me kind of depressed to draw, because it feels like no matter what I'll do it will get drowned in a sea of other things that I don't even like.

>>4989391
You need to chill, mate. At the end of the day, you're here because you choose to be, no one is holding a gun to your head and keeping you captive.

Fact of the matter is that people are assholes, yeah? Nothing you can do about that, you can't change other people. Most you can do is not engage.

>>4989396
>he tries to stop it as it's just getting good
don't

>>4989410
>Bro you are borderline delusional, nobody drags you into any mess, you just have no impulse control.
I'm sure you know my life well enough to know I'm just making shit up. Also You never said I wasn't wrong for feeling this way. That I'm insufferable and "participating" in the culture for stating my frustration. You're first reply was telling me to kill myself. >>4989426
Again I wouldn't care if it was just the internet. Happens way to much with irl people.

I'm a lonely depressed split personality double life weirdo who transitioned about 4 years ago and has a one sided relationship with an e-guyfriend artist who finds me persistently annoying.

>>4989404
extracurlypubes

>>4989068
Hey whitebox :)

>>4989432

Doesn't matter where people are, people gonna peep. You have to be able to tell which relationships are toxic and which ones are not. You don't have to put up with bullshit, and its your choice to engage in it.

This goes with family, too.

>>4989432
Once again you've failed to address a single point I've made because you have to defend your theory that everyone in the world is some retard that has a vendetta against you

>just want to speak to people without being angry by the end of the conversation
Keep living like this. By all means. You think what I'm saying is some sort of assault because your ego is at stake, but I'm saying this because thinking this way will never make you happy and will only pull you further into the mess that you hate so much. Why you stay on the defensive and continue to behave like an asshurt child is a total mystery, but it's no skin off my back if you actively continue to act in a way that brings you the unhappiness you're complaining about. Your skull is too dense and you're possessed by irrationality, and it's your choice to keep doing it, knowing that it brings you to exactly the same place every time. You can listen to me or you can continue, I don't give a fuck, I'm just boredposting on 4chan.

>>4989453
Yea I'm particularly frustrated because I'm stuck with my family during quarantine and just got let go from my job after dealing with tons of shit. Can't even go the gym without waiting on line for an hour if its not when it opens up.
>>4989454
You could've just said you wanted (You)s without projecting and making shit up.

>>4989468
My condolences, that is quite a shitty situation. I hope you find your way out of it.

>>4989071
artstation is like 75% anime coom now because that was the plan. It started off as a professional artist portfolio site but that was just phase 1 of its marketing strategy to draw in a lot of skilled artists and get a lot of hype among wannabes, this phase has been over for a long time. Now the website is just DeviantArt 2.0 and the people who put their portfolio there first use it to monetize tutorials or shill their uncensored coom patreon.
Sakimichan is one of the top artists there just like he's one of the top artists on DA.

>>4989468
If I wanted (you)s I'd be baiting whole threads, not trying to talk at extended lengths with one stubborn idiot in a vent general. But once again you've ignored absolutely everything, so it's pretty clear you have no interest in fixing your issues and you'd rather continue to lash out. Enjoy

>>4989478
Thanks anon. Hope you find a way out of you're struggles too.
>>4989485
(You)

Fucking Instagram is pissing me off. It's been more than a week and they still have recent hashtags turned off in Burgerland because of the election
I haven't been able to post on there since this fucks with my engagement, which is already screwed up because of IG's shit algorithm focusing on selling ads and "influencers"

I feel sad. I feel like I am not doing well with art, or at least, not as well as I would like. I can't seem to reach the goals I set for myself and that gives me the blues from time to time. It doesn't happen often, but when I get the need to talk to my friends (who are also artists) about it, the first reaction is that I shouldn't complain since I am more popular on social media than them, thus, somehow, superior in art and if I feel inferior what does that make them, completely turning the subject to do with themselves instead
They treat me like a know-it-all master who needs to always provide them with the right answers when they struggle. On top of that, when they don't pull off a drawing, again, my own skill is brought up as comparison, making me constantly feel like they see me as an antagonist or that I have to live up to their image of me
It just makes me tired and anxious and it often happens to pile up on top of the negative feeling of artblock

>>4989149
you sound insufferable to be quite honest senpai

>>4989578
Okay?

>>4989578
looks like you nailed it

>>4989579
>he replied in 38 seconds flat

>>4989586
>>4989589

yeah, a complete narcissist with an over inflated ego.

>>4989589
Because I knew it was bait. I wanted to see what you come up with. I don't care at this point.

imagine coming to the vent thread and becoming even more angry than you were to start with

I can't "feel the form." All I feel is pain.

>>4989628
grab your pectoral muscle right now and feel it, feel how it curves over itself at the armpit and imagine that curvature in your head, draw contour lines over it with your finger

now do the same with a pencil on paper

>>4989149
I perfectly understand how you feel, and the solution to this would be getting in touch with other people who feel the same and start a walled off community, but it's almost impossible to get it started from here because nobody involved knows who is who and there's no preview of what the community will be like or what the real intentions are.
I feel there are lots of people who are exhausted with the state of things, not just in art but in almost everything that exists online, yet these people are stuck in a risk-avoiding paralysis. And that's actually kind of justified because if you publicly express any complaint e.g. that you hate porn you will be eaten alive and harassed out of existence, so you are always forced into anonymity or pseudonymity to keep your real self safe from heat. That or you just embrace a public image and you put up the act that every single professional puts up on social media. If you can't stand that you're stuck in this fucking purgatory forever.
Ironically coomers are safe from this because they thrive on being anonymous and if they get zapped for something awful they do they can just start another account and pick up with 0 issues. While if you have a name and a real career and you make enemies for not nodding along to the sheep you're fucked forever.
Maybe you could make a temporary community with pseudonyms, maybe on shit like Discord, so you understand who is who, then shut down the server and move somewhere less reachable. You could start with throwaway mail accounts but it would be hard to figure out if someone's just posting stolen art to get in. Talking via e-mail is really nice, a mailing list would be great for this kind of community as long as it doesn't become just about hating the status quo. It's really complicated but it's the only way and nobody wants to do it.
You can't build trust on the internet in 2020 where everyone's a backstabbing opportunistic snake, and even more so from anonymous communities.

>>4989639
>bro just set up a cult!

Can I still make it if I'm an idiot

>>4989652
yes, as long as you keep trying and always look to improve! it'll be hard and slow but that's true for everything. keep going

>>4989437
Loser at school
Popular catboy by night

>>4989651
fuck yes, The Church of Dreams and Madness, that's what I'd call it

>>4989672
you must be 18 to use this website.

>>4989678
If you were not a baby yourself you'd understand the name.
See this is exactly the kind of filtering that needs to be done.

how do people justify finishing pieces that suck

>>4989700
A temporary fleeting high in the moment. I attempt far many pieces that go unfinished because the high wears out. Their destiny is forever in psd hell.

i have to say, for all the crying that gets done about muh getting cancelled, i very rarely see it happen. sometimes someone gets busted for tracing, but all they'll have to do is apologize and make some declaration of their intention to do better and their diehard stans will defend their apology while the coomers and some fraction of normies don't even give a shit and will continue to look at the art anyway, and the whole thing will blow over sooner or later. kuvshinov got busted for something similar but he's still here with his gazillion followers and everybody mostly forgot. sakimi back in the days when she used to make original work got "cancelled" for whitewashing some character but her success and her fanbase saw absolutely 0 decline and she kept growing at a massive rate.

honestly, i can't help but feel it's a bit of tin foil hat faggotry. you don't have to behave like some subservient sheeple pleaser at all, you just have to not say the word nigger, and even that is nowhere near as astronomical a restriction on freedom as the poltrannies will have you believe.
certainly, if you want to go rant about niggers for whatever mentally sane reason you feel compelled to do so, go and do it on 4chan, as doing it on your art account is exactly the same as the artists who talk about politics when they should be posting work instead.
but even then, you're free to run your mouth in whatever way you want, you just have to understand the very basic principle that talking about divisive subjects will polarize people against you. this has been the case since before social media even existed (don't talk with gf's family about politics and religion!) and even though it's been exacerbated with the trump era, it's nothing new.

just sometimes, reading some of the shit people have posted here, feels like you've constructed this big boogeyman of how scary getting cancelled is and how it's gonna end your career and everyone's out to get you, when in truth meh, not really

>>4989728
>sometimes someone gets busted for tracing, but all they'll have to do is apologize and make some declaration of their intention to do better
porn is not art

>was forced to do drawing for 2 years because of game dev, had no other options (long story)
>dev is over, could easily quit drawing, will probably have money from now on and never need it again
>kind of torn on what to do
>on the one hand, I hate drawing, even after all my time doing it I'm still on a really bad deviantartist level objectively, and I really hate the idea of doing loomis and pushing myself and grinding forever
>on the other hand, my two years of practice will go down the drain if I quit, I sort of enjoy drawing sometimes, and I really want to become a good coom artist because I have some odd preferences that there isn't much good art for
Reading it all back I guess I'll just try to keep going, but if i ever have too much work to do, my daily drawing will probably be the first thing to go. I really don't know, though. It's so strange, I never saw myself ever being an artist at all, but here I am not really wanting to give it up. I'm just venting here, but any tips or comments are appreciated I guess.

>>4989730
what does this have to do with my point

My problem is that for the next five years I want to learn how to:

>draw characters and animals
>draw vehicules and planes
>drawing environnements and scenes
>draw digitally
>paint digitally
>paint traditionally

But I don't have any fucking plan and I'm struggling with basic dynamic sketching techniques.

That and the fact that no one seems to want to help me,or just give some directions.Wich is problematic since I'm the type of "mimic then repeat" type of learner.

>>4989149
What a narcissistic retard, kys

>>4989149
>any dicussion about art
>"___ is off"
>"no it's not, prove it"
>prove it
>"nah it still looks fine"
You think this is everyone but you, but it's actually you as well. This is why no sane person actually tries to discuss this shit. Don't go thinking that you're any different.

>>4989740
>no one seems to want to help me
Why should anyone help you? It's a dog eat dog world, the less competitors the better

>>4989728
Cancellations only applies if your real name is attached. You can always delete your identity and grow overnight if your skills are godlike.

>>4989745
you're either retarded or playing clueless because you're a porn artist
I'm not him but I've been in this discussion and I pointed out a glaring drawing issue like perspective being completely fucked, not in a "stylized" way but just fucked and bad looking, and people would say
>it's appealing
or some other buzzword which is in the same realm as "muh style" but somehow they think is legit when it's applied to porn
Not even getting into fucked anatomy, people will just call you a SJW as if you were complaining about body type shit when you're actually pointing out fucked up anatomy or a plain shitty drawing after they were praising literally the anatomy or the drawing while beating off.
Most discussions here are absolutely insane by all standards.

>>4989748
>You can always delete your identity and grow overnight if your skills are godlike.
porn is not art and the artists you think are godlike are mediocre at best

>>4989755
>I am objectively right and everyone who diasagrees is objetively wrong it is not possible for me to be the wrong one
You're still doing it.

>>4989758
That’s just like, your shitty opinion, man.

>>4989761
because I am right while your eyes are filled with semen

>>4989762
you will always be a whore to everybody, including your clients

>>4989764
I wouldn’t mind my eyes filled with your semen...

>>4989758
Porn is art, and you’re just a seething fruit basket painter

>>4989755
But why are you so angry that they won't take your critique at face value and follow it immediately? If you hate porn as much as you claim, and porn artists are just delusional coombrains, surely it doesn't matter to you that they're skipping over fundies? Barring the fact that your critique itself might be worthless, which we've clearly established is not the case seeing as you're the god-eye incarnate, why does it hurt you so that people won't validate your opinions? Is it because your (you) farm operation isn't going as well as you planned? Are you so entitled as to think that everyone has to follow your take like some sort of biblical dogma? If someone doesn't accept your critique, that's on them, but for you to throw a fit about it is quite childish and a pretty stark brand of narcissism

>>4989771
Yes, I am sure you are right. Go back to your virtual blowjobs now, I'm sure you're losing a lot of money to type these comments when you could be stroking some faggot's stubby cock.

>>4989790
>why does it hurt you so that people won't validate your opinions?
I don't care about a bunch of cumbrains vaildating my opinion, which is right and will always be right because I know enough about this shit to know it's right. What hurts is that I have to live in the same world as people this fucking delusional and stupid and disingenuous and disgusting, and that sadly, sadly, they are the majority.

>>4989795
You don't have to live in this world at all, just raid your pill cabinet at your leisure. Why is it so hard to accept that people in a discipline you don't even like aren't going to act as your hivemind?

>>4989149

I keep 180 lbs in dumbbells at home. Powerblocks brand. Its not much, but it keeps me outta the red zone.
Maybe small freeweights could be a solution for you too?
Gyms were pretty unhygenic before the pandemic, but gottdam- I miss the social aspect.

>>4989795
Yikes, what a shitty annoying person. No wonder you're so miserable

>>4989817
isn't the inability to adjust weight what makes dumbbells "dumb"?

I want to rest my head on your lap

>>4989865
No you don't.

>>4989884
yes I do

>>4989903
i'll let you rest your head on my lap if you join my cult. i'm thinking we set up a hamachi cod4 server and exchange messages to avoid the watchful eye of the gubmint

>>4989906
I was thinking more on the lines of VRchat than anything else. Can we do that instead?

>>4989903
Nah. Put your name on it then.

>>4989911
if we vrchat you'll realize i'm a filthy weeb so no, that's completely out of the question. perhaps a long exchange of morse code by dropping items in irregular patterns on old school runescape

>>4989229
I can help, pyw.

>>4989916
>old school runescape
Gosh I fear what modern RS looks like. I haven't checked in years.

>>4989828
>>4989809
>WHY ARE YOU SO MAD REEEE
>KILL YOURSELF KILL YOURSELF KILL YOURSELF KILL YOURSELF
>WHY CAN YOU NOT ACCEPT PEOPLE'S VIEWS EVEN IF THEY ARE RETARDED
>SCHIZO SCHIZO SCHIZO SCHIZO SCHIZO

>>4989926
are you okay?

>>4989925
i'd love to work on the runescape design team dbh, must be pretty comfy knowing your work only has to be mid tier and will inevitably be turned into 3 polygons

>>4989928
No I'm not okay, I live in a post-fact, post-morality, post-human reality where people say blatant lies or simply make wrong statements and you are unable to tell them they are wrong, because they will simply tell you
>why are you so mad that people are dismantling truth before your eyes and claim things that are factually wrong by the same meter they use? Just bow down and accept it bruh
or you see everyone just give in to the filthiest, most vile addictions and the dumbest, shittiest instincts that a human is capable of but you cannot question any of it because they'll tell you
>why are you so mad that people now worship everything that human civilization has condemned as evil throughout millennia and have become completely unable of articulate thought or discussing anything serious without drenching it in "irony"? Just bow down and accept it bruh
And then of course if you have a problem with all this and you find it unbearable, they'll tell you
>you don't have to live in this world, kill yourself bruh, just let us burn down everything you loved about humanity and culture, just make more room for this shitty stuff you hate
And if you don't do it they get absolutely buttmad because they simply cannot stand that you exist, because you hate them. They want you to just play along or die and cannot see the hypocrisy in it because they're fucking double-thinking faggots.
God I
FUCKING
H A T E
ZOOMERS

>>4989954
listen, i'm really trying to hold in my laughter here but you're doing it again

>they get absolutely buttmad because they simply cannot stand that you exist, because you hate them. They want you to just play along or die and cannot see the hypocrisy in it

this is exactly what you are doing, word for word, at this very moment

i dont what it is but drawing just makes me sad most of the time, which makes it hard to study/draw for long. Its just usually my mind just yelling at me telling me how bad my artwork and how shitty I am. Like I constantly think I am horribly defective, like i always assume most people just 'get it' and im here constantly feeling lost and hopeless, i just usually feel terrible about myself because everything i produce is constantly shit, at least from my point of view. i usually just end up getting depressed over things Im not able to do because i cant understand. I am so blinded by misery and harsheness to myself have an extremely hard time noticing anything improving if it is

also please tell me how many hallucinogens you took to conjure up the phrase "we live in a post-human reality"

>>4989960
No. There's a key difference: I stand by things that are objectively right and great while you stand by everything that is objectively shit, and is making our world shit.
Fuck you.

>>4989972
oh true

https://e621.net/posts/2453854?q=pikachu_libre
I was in this comment thread. I’m a firm believer that artistic ability is something you need to be born with to perform it. It’s a talent, not a skill.

>>4989979
ok, great. go back to the comment thread

>>4989979
You know it's a loser mindset because I agree with it and I'm the biggest loser you'll ever meet

>>4989979
you know, i was listening to a rando metal album the other day, exploring new genres and such, and one lyric struck me
>there's something about the rigid posture of a proper authentic blind, as if extended arms reach to pass his blindness onto others
your post just reminded me of it

>>4989996
What, that I’m wrong and attempting to indoctrinate others into being wrong?

>>4989979
I'm the biggest winner you'll find, and my art is amazing, and I agree with your furry ass.

I just sad right now.

>>4990003
it's quite odd that you feel the need to tell rando artists that you think art is a talent despite what they themselves know to be true as far as their experience with learning art is concerned, but not only that, you also want to tell OTHER artists over here that you're telling them this over there

truly a bizarre display

>>4990012
come and hold my hand you idiot

I destroyed another painting today and I feel sick with a horrid creeping feeling in my body. I'm cross that I destroyed it and sad. Maybe I will be un-burden'ed over time? In the present it's not left me feeling happier.

>>4989068
have you tried not being a sensitive little faggot

>>4989972
Lmfao this guy is such a self absorbed retard. Go back to jerking off to Nietzsche while crying that no one gives af about your gay ass landscape paintings.

Is it possible to go back to art after years of inactivity? I haven't been able to pick myself up ever since becoming a Neet, all I do now is sleep and shitpost. Has anyone ever recovered from long breaks?

>>4990126
I quit for 8 months, when I came back I'd simply forgotten some of the more recent technical anatomy stuff i was studying before quitting, but it didn't take long to latch on to that and within a few weeks I was back at my former level and climbing again. In fact, some of the concepts I was studying before came more naturally to me after the break, I assume because they'd had some time to sink in as opposed to being just straight up erased as I'd expected

The boogeyman of losing gains mostly lives in your head and is nowhere near as powerful as you think

>>4989199
You owe your company nothing but the hours they pay you for. It's time to polish that resume and move on. You're a software engineer for fuck's sake, not some low level retail employee. You CAN get a better job- one that doesn't have you in a fucking office mid-pandemic at least. This is me believing in you.

>>4989229
Keep practicing, you can do it. The the same leg in the same angle a few times (2 or 3 should be enough, 5 if want to be hardcore about it). Study legs drawn from artists you like, that helps too.

>>4988426
I just come here when I'm feeling down, to look at artists worse than me and breathe a sigh of relief. Makes me feel like I actually accomplished something.

I want art friends. I wish I knew how to make websites so I could at least start a little by artists, for artists style community. No having to appeal to normies, just deviantArt at its peak vibes or something, I dunno.

>>4990216
>>4988445
Listen to this guy, also if your sitting at a desk all day just make sure to do some body weight exercises at least.

>>4990271
pyw and i'll decide if you're fit to join my community

>>4990249
Only no one posts there bad art, even on /beg/. Fucking seriously no one posts there shit art or maybe i just cant spot when its poorly made

>>4990277
I just look through /beg/, anything higher than that level is too much for my shitty ass lmao

I cant cope with the fact people will only give a shit about my art if i draw porn and no one will look at my sfw art

>>4990283
Sad, I can.

>>4990283
>draws SFW art, wonders why no one gives a shit.

I want to go to college part time for game dev (I'm eligible for tuition assistance that would cover it fully), but I also already work full time in a completely unrelated field and I'm afraid of not having time to draw. I've fantasized about making my own comic for a while, but I feel like nobody actually reads comics, especially small indie comics with characters they're unfamiliar with, and it'd be more effective to just show my visions through games. I don't really have any interest in working for a game studio because I've heard so much about how terrible the hours, pay, and benefits are. If I actually went for this, it would purely be for the purpose of building my own personal projects. Money-wise I'd be fine basically no matter what unless I somehow fuck up really bad and lose my current job, the main concern is literally just the time investment

I'm never falling for the nofap meme ever again. 10 days without fapping and I only drew 2 pics and only got the drive to draw after busting 3 nuts in the span of 1 hour.

>>4989859

I've no idea, really. Powerblocks and most dumbbells intended for home have adjustable weights.
Gyms buy single-weighted dumbbells cause theyre cheap and make less clutter. Same with the miniature barbells.

>>4990126

I came back after a 10 year hiatus. Its possible.

>>4988459
If it doesnt change within the next 2 months then quit. Its not worth throwing your life away for that.

My art looks super unprofessional but I don’t know why. I’m not shit but whenever I look at art like mine I can’t shake the feeling that my art is unprofessional while the other art is. It’s kinda hard to explain

>>4990380
impostor syndrome maybe, we are all really hard on ourselves.

>>4988426
>decide to sketch for fun
>can slowly refining it into a finished drawing
>decide to make a finished drawing
>can't get pass sketching phase

>>4990395
I had to look up imposter syndrome and I feel like half my life was just explained, so thanks I guess

The default pen feels slow as sin for lineart, what do I do?

>>4990306
Yes, I know faggot
How do I cope with it?

>>4988426
Uneducated people trying to cancel others they do not agree with.
>stupid people with smartphones

>>4990283
>>4990306
Have you considered the "I'm not horny guys I swear" kind of art, anons?
It saves you the trouble of having to draw privates.

>>4990426
>saving the trouble of drawing privates by drawing appealing drapery
some questionable economy of effort there.

>>4990426

>>4990419
what program?

>>4988426
well my life is like the stock market going up n down
yesterday my garage started keeling over after 70 years of constant use so i took out all the tools in it and organized them.in those big boxes with alot of drawers that you can hold like a bag
i slept early at 7pm
today i have to go get some blood analysis because of my rotting hand burns sfter i got fried real good three weeks ago
i can bately work now
but atleast my potatoe fields have grown

>>4990435
SAI. Though I haven't watched enough vids to know how long lining is for the average person.

>>4990439
I don't know how SAI works but do you have stabilization on (if it has it)? The higher it is the slower the pen ends up being since it has to adjust your lines.

>>4990430
Kek

>>4990430
leaving things to imagination is often way hotter

>>4989979
talent is support and resources at youth
if you didn't have that you aren't talented and shouldn't be an artist

why can't i calm myself down

When I draw well I write like shit.
When I write well I draw like shit.
I can't control when it happens, but being shit at one when I have the motivation for the other is driving me insane.
Also I'm a natural with animation and damn near everything I animate turns out quite well without any prior experience or lessons. But I fucking despise doing it. I fucking hate it. It's so tedious that it gives me heart palpitations and I start grinding my teeth drawing frame after frame of nearly the exact same image over and over like a sisyphean curse. But I refuse to do tweening or puppet animation because it looks like dogshit.

>>4990557
>being shit at the one I have the motivation for*
Fuck

>>4990532
Hold you breath for 30 seconds

> Loud mouth wife ruins the streams.
Should I watch it muted?

>>4990317
>but I feel like nobody actually reads comics
I noticed that my simple visual novel gather more interest that my ongoing webcomic. So much more than I could even get a VN patreon going.
Probably unrelated to your vent. I dunno

4990091
Pornfaggots should just be gassed. Artists, consumers, all of you.
You are completely lost and you just want to proceed down the path of no attrition, whether it's about making money or paying for your degenerate shit.
You are animals who are running humanity into the ground and there is no hope to steer you anywhere better.

>>4990426
Only reason why post of ic refuses to draw sfw clothed is because they are out of beg in the anatomy department and anatomy is required knowledge to draw clothing.

I keep fapping to Amber for the past 3 days now at least almost 10 times and to be honest I barely have 10 hours clocked in the game.

>>4990720
Amber who

>>4990736
Genshin impact amber

I made the mistake of creating 5 threads that just won't die, FFS someone create some new threads for the love of god

>>4990720
based coomer

>>4989954
Sorry bro. I love you.

Well anon it's happened. I don't watch porn but I'm enjoying drawing the human body so much that I've become turned on by my own beg anatomy sketches. Feeling the form is this constant seductive tease. Vilppu is probably a beast in bed.

>>4989149
>the year is 2040
>humans have retreted it vr
>i have avoided over stimulation
>my memories of the past are vage ghosts
>i sit in my simulation stareing at a virtual window in an empty room, the sunbeam i programed to slowly move across the floor...
aside from seeking valadation on 4chan... i know that feel

>>4990873
sliding shit threads with more shit threads is how we got into this mess.

I'm so embarrassed to take commissions. I feel like whomever wants me to do one, could get something better by someone else.
I've never taken one because of this, despite some wanting to know if I do them.

>>4989817
Yea, I didn't have enough forsight to buy dumbbells when I had money. I'll definitely invest in getting stuff that allows me to work out no matter what. I'm going to take the home gym pill once I get my own place.

>>4990273
But if I spend all my time drawing I miss out on time spending it on boards.

why does no one talk about taxes?\

I honestly hope that conservatives who think Twitter and FB are biased leave those sites and fuck off to gab or whatever "full freedom" alternative.
Every fucking time I say something that might sound "leftist" and or use one of their trigger words, they have to shitpost in my replies with their poorly made memes because these people are so fragile
Wow you dumbfucks, stop hunting for your oppressive keywords on social media to get offended by and maybe you won't get so upset. I'm just trying to post about art over here

>>4990434
>>4990736
Kill yourself tranny stop spamming the board

>>4990635
what race is he?

>>4991412
Why does it matter you fucking racist degenerate?

why do you keep checking on me after telling me you don’t want to have anything to do with me? I’m confused.

>>4991493
because i want your poosy

>>4991493
i am the puppet master and i enjoy watching you reap what i've sown for you

>>4991495
Are you sure it's not LOVE you're mistaking your puppeteering? or >>4991494?

>>4991501
certainly if i love you, it's not in a wholesome and honest way, it's in a twisted self-gratifying way. i am the american psycho and i play 4d chess instead of professing my honest feelings

>>4991505
>honest feelings
I know you love me, nothing you could do can change the way I feel about you.

>>4991516
and i keep checking because i want to make sure that's still the case. you fell in love with me, the american psycho, and i will continue to find ways to hurt and confuse you for my own enjoyment while keeping you on a leash. you wouldn't do anything about it even if you understood, because you're completely blinded by emotions

>>4991521
What do yo know about being an American? You’re in Chile.

>>4991429
>racist
>degenerate
Choose only one.

>>4991538
i'm inside your head

>>4989149
>>No one actually posts their work
This is why /ic/ is shit

>>4991570
if nobody posts their work then what is he making observations about? some work he made up in his head?

You're being silly. I know I'm talking to Bateman and not you, I can see that myself.

Although the message still gets across regardless.

>>4991575
your blind head-over-heels love is easily abusable and will lead to much suffering. you enjoy romanticising it, so you might well continue anyway despite knowing this, but at the end don't pretend you weren't aware that your own choices led you down this path. pawn to g5

>>4991582
It's funny because, despite you pretending to be the person I'm talking to, he just so happens to be lurking ITT and still dodges my questions. Also finds ways to "hurt me" by threating to disappear forever when we both know he has another (twitter) account.

>>4991586
the answer is right in front of you, you just don't want to take it because you don't want to let go of your feelings. that's fine, but like i said, when you look back on it all, you'll know that you chose to keep walking back into the noose. good day

It's been 10 days and I still don't have commissions for this month. Really feel so down when I don't get commissions this long.

>>4988426
I approach life with curiosity, light-hearted disbelief, and I keep my judgements to myself. I do things with enthusiasm, add logs to the fire. I tend to play along with things, just to see where they go. From this I get called childish and gullible, But the way I see it, I'm just choosing happiness.

When I tried to explain my beliefs to someone, they told me that I was empty.
I don't get it. What does it mean to feel "full" then?

I took a huge shit the other day. I didn't know I even had it in me. It got stuck to the bottom of the toilet and I had to pull out a bucket of water from the well to flush it down. Would you call that empty?

>>4991598
>you'll know that you chose to keep walking back into the noose

That describes the relationship I guess.

I would sit here and write a 2000 word diary on how I feel about the whole thing but to put it short as possible, your quote works. When I say in my 15 years of (personal) internet use I have never felt a strong of connection with another individual as he him. Weird huh?

But emotions aside, I think the reason is because I see him as a fragment of a bigger community I cared about but no longer participate in. And as the wind blows so does the petals follow (him) to me as a stark reminder of that community only for him to blow away and shallowly remind me I'm supposed to move on--which I did.

........no I can see I'm about to write a 5000 word paragraph so I'll stop here before I can't stop typing

>>4991612
yes, i like makoto shinkai films too, but you quite clearly haven't moved on

>>4989149
I feel you anon. You're not insufferable.

>>4990126
>>4990370
I also am coming back to art after a 5 year break. You can do it. Just don't fucking stop this time. The difference between quitting and stopping is in whether you start again or not. Stop running from your life issues.

>>4991608
You sound like a pretentious midwit or an underageb&. Don't know if I would call you "empty" but people are definitely going to cringe at your outlook, best keep it to yourself.

>>4991602
I also feel that the amount of commissions are slowing down since last month, usually november and february were the busiest months for me.
I guess we're starting to directly experience the post-covid economic collapse that those talking heads kept babbling about

>>4991829
ditto, usually i get several messages daily but the last two weeks i've only had a handful and they didn't lead to anything. maybe too short a timeframe to discount anomaly, or maybe doomsday is here. we shall see over the coming months

>>4991574
pyw

>>4991412
Alien mixed with cancer survivor? I like him and Jim Lee personality a lot.
>>4991429
Don't just call everybody racist pal.

Now that i've gotten a job, i don't really have the motivation to practice art. Not in a i'm tired type of way, but more like a "what for?" feeling. Before i was drawing everyday for hours at a time gradually seeing improvements. My goal was to be a commission artist, since that sounded like the easiest way to make money. I thought i was beginning to enjoy it. But now i'm starting realize that wasn't really the case.
I think drawing was feeding my depressive state at the time of loneliness. I was using figure studies images of naked people as "reference" material, when in reality it was just an excuse to look at porn all day. I don't think i ever really had a passion for art as a whole. So now when i'm trying to sit down and down and try it again after a month of neglect, i don't real feel motivated to do so since im not in that same depressive mindset as before.
I dunno maybe ill step away from it for a bit untill i find a real reason to enjoy it.

do people just like helping aspiring women artists more

>>4992586
4/5 homeless are men. Vagina/tits are infinitely more valuable than dicks. If you are possibly a girl (cute girly name, girly avatar) people will more likely click your profile and check your work. Also if you're a dude, I view you as direct competition to myself and will try to crab the shit out of you.

>>4992586

Women tend to ask for help more often than dudes. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

>>4992578
Hey, it's okay to not enjoy something. I really thought I loved sewing for the longest time. It turns out I just liked fashion and I actually HATE sewing. Once I was actually able to afford nicer clothing, I stopped making my own. You learn a lot about yourself over the years. Don't beat yourself up about this. Congrats on the job!

>>4992593
This only happens because women are positively reinforced to ask for help, because growing up people aimed to please them in hopes of some pussy. Guys are conditioned growing up to ask for help less and less because people don't care about them as much, especially other guys because of a mentality of "no one helps me, you should go through the same trials".

>>4992594
When you put it simply like that my feelings make a lot more sense. Also thanks. The pay isn't good, but i'm enjoying it a lot more than previous jobs.

>>4988426
My New Year's Resolution was that I'd take my first commission in 2020 and I've probably drawn for less than a week this year

>>4992593
>hey how can i make this look better
>dead silence

>girl asks how they could make this look better
>a girl is given a thousand answers

>>4992603
The year isn't over yet. Get to it. I know you can do it.

I hate that I just keep crying when I cant do something, I dont know what im even doing most of the time.

>>4992680
Are you a woman? It's just hormones. If you're a man, seek therapy immediately.

>>4992680
Low T and low sunlight.

>got into male ranking and female ranking on pixiv at the same time for the same artwork
>female ranking is closer to 1st place than male ranking

>>4992593
lmao women just get help because they're women
look at any suicide reddit or analog shit
male posts get 0 posts, anything written by a woman like "I'm depressed today umu" gets all the help the board can muster
if you are a guy you are supposed to bottle it up until you off yourself and then people will feel OK because you didn't ask for help
if you ask for help the whole system will say you're garbage and you'll be given hard drugs that destroy your brain so you can be happy working the lowest possible job until they stop working and you finally off yourself

I fucking love drawing, it's the only thing I enjoy now.
I look forward to it every day.

I can't seem to keep up with life, working every day, endless long and short-term deadlines.
There's no time. I'm so stressed every day and I can't make enough time to draw.

Been on a steep, downward trend...

>>4990317
artist source?

i unironically love art, but im always so frustrated by my inability that i hate doing it when it doesnt work. im never satisfied. i cant tell if people saying "ngmi if you dont enjoy it" are serious or not because i cant grasp how anyone would be happy with "the process" when the process is hours of work for a shitty result

>>4992899
You’re supposed to make lots of shitty failures to get good. If you’re not failing at the speed of sonic sound you’re not doing it right.

>>4992680
Go out more and bring a sketchbook

>>4992680
Stop pitying yourself and get stronger.
In the pursuit of any craft, you will feel inadequate when you fail. Actively pursuing good work and finding you can't do it corrodes one's sense of self.
But this tempers the individual. It teaches one a fundamental modesty that can only be gained at a great pain. It teaches surrender.
A great technique is to google your problems. Do not conform with the first answer. Try to explore your problem from all the angles you can find. Go back a few steps and stuff.

>>4992858
Isn't that beautiful? How your gender is completely in your control. If you want to reap the benefits of being a woman on the internet, you can at any moment.

>>4992867
Why does it matter though? Why can't you just read the advice they gave the girl? Why does it have to be for you? Why are you blaming women for the problems men have made for themselves? You could be the change. You could start caring about men on reddit anytime. But face it. You don't want to.

>>4992899
Who cares about craft? It's all about your intention when you made the work.
Reminder that design is hack.
Everything comes from something.
Observe, converge, diverge.

>>4992598
Once again, men make problems for themselves and blame women for it. You are mad because humans in general are vain.
Why would anyone help you if they have nothing to gain? No one stopping for the weak. Welcome to the concrete jungle.
You could be the change though. You could become so strong that you could help all your brothers. And chances are, they will in turn give forward.

You bitches need to get over your gender problems. You either get over it now, or in 2030 when gender is banished from earth.

Yesterday, after two failed pieces and nothing to be proud of in a week I was on Twitter and saw by chance some rando's art get 100+ rts that was just a pinterest picture drawn over (ofc no mention that it was even a study). Normies complimented her for the "composition" as well. Then I visited her profile and despite her human characters and backgrounds looking totally out of proportion and unaesthetic whenever she wasn't using a reference (pretty obvious) she's already trying to be a full time artist and selling original merch and shit to normies.
Usually I wouldn't care and I know I know "no rules only tools" but it just stung in the moment. Rich white girls have it so easy

>>4988426
I am unmotivated, demoralized, and I feel as though I’m practicing without direction. I am faltering and phoning it in at /dad/ again and I’m behind on my monthly sketchbook. And I can’t do Loomis.

Don't make it. Or don't try to make it.
what do I mean by making it? it's not my personal definition but what everyone here aspire to be : a professional artist. You'll never make it as you wished you would. You'd either starve as a poor artist or become a soulless sell out (by doing stupid splash art to coomer furry porn). Keep your hobby your hobby and find a job that is more stable.

What covid taught us all is that people don't need self-centered jobs but jobs where people interact more and actually do something that's interesting. You can still work something about culture but please, for your sanity, know that art school are scams and that well paid artist sold their spark beforehand.

Ps : making it is actually liking your art for the good reasons. Treasure this hobby and don't corrupt it.

>>4993060
People interacting more and doing something interesting is actually the whole point of just about every kind of art. If none of them existed, people would have much less to bond over and the world as a whole would be much less interesting. Artists may end up carrying the burden for this by being isolated strugglers and having to sell their soul to the devil in one way or another, but the art they make is what makes life worth living and it would be hell without them. Even tourism would be a fraction as interesting as it is now if all these aspects of culture were wiped out and people everywhere just hit rocks with sticks for a living. Art is a good and worthwhile cause and people make it for all sorts of reasons, and even work that was made "soullessly" can still be a great source of enjoyment and enrichment for others.
If you want to drop art and remain an eternal hobbyist while grinding some day job you don't care about, go for it, but don't sell it as some sort of ultimate solution when people even on this board cry daily about never having any time to draw because of their insignificant bitpart job that they have to spend 60 hours a week on. Fulfilment isn't as binary as you make it seem, and you definitely won't get there by blackpilling yourself out of your own passions

>drawing character
>staring to feel proud of it in the sketch phase
>look at the art channel
>loose motivation and want to throw it out already

I'm actually getting tired of favoriting Japanese/Korean artist on twitter everyday. Either it's all starting to look the same or the batch of people I follow just retweet the same hivemind art daily. It's not that I'm starting to dislike anime (that'll never happen) but it's doing me no favors, mentally speaking, to keep up this daily habit of consuming these top, cream of the crop artists.

If I had a mental picture of how I see it, it's like a long staircase into the heavens where 90% of who I follow are in their own little club, they throw a piece of artwork that didn't take them any effort before moving on to their next fast food piece and everyone on the mortal ground scurries to favorite it blindly, forgetting the entire image in 5 minutes as their follow count grows in the hundreds every day. I don't mind looking at other artists work atm, but not the obvious top star artists.

>>4993212
i love to be captain obvious, but look at some other work, einstein. nobody is telling YOU how you should consume content, and how other people consume it is irrelevant

>>4993217
I tried following westerners but then they just bring up politics or problems about race. I gave an honest attempt at that and gave up.

Thanks for remeninding me Artstation exists though. I do need to seek my horizons beyond anime.

>>4993217

I tried following westerners but then they just bring up politics or problems about race. I gave an honest attempt at that and gave up.

Thanks for reminding me Artstation exists though. I do need to seek my horizons beyond anime.

>>4993226
literally just scroll past it. i follow a shit ton of artists on ig, people that do anime or more classical illustration or concept art or story driven illustration or whatever. i don't keep track of race but i'd guess about half of them are asian and half of them are western.

it's a great variety of work and if they make pieces i really enjoy i'll always save them for later, and whenever i go through my saved posts, it's a fucking treasure trove of wonder - i get to see all this amazing work at my leisure, remind myself of stuff i may have forgotten about, and i can come back to it at any time and be blown away.

if they post some politics shit i don't care about, i literally just scroll past it - if it's in stories i can swipe or just not check their stories if i KNOW they talk about politics there, and if it's in the captions then i don't have to fucking read it at all. i really don't understand why people get magnetised to politics and can't just look at the work for what it is without having a meltdown, but you do you i guess

>>4993233
it's like the polar opposite and direct analogue to people who won't listen to burzum because the guy is a nazi, or people who refuse to listen to the smiths because of something mr morrison said. you're not really making a statement, you're just depriving yourself of something that has merit as an art piece and you might enjoy, but your brain is completely fixated on the politics and you can't let it go

>>4992698
i am getting help but CBT doesnt help worth anything

>>4992953
>Why does it matter though? Why can't you just read the advice they gave the girl? Why does it have to be for you? Why are you blaming women for the problems men have made for themselves? You could be the change. You could start caring about men on reddit anytime. But face it. You don't want to.
who's there to help the helper?
women will never understand what its like to feel helpless

>>4989149
Unironically get therapy. I had a friend like this, he thought he was smarter than everyone else and acted like an insufferable condescending asshole until everyone stopped talking to him.
It’s not that the whole world is stupid or childish or ingratiating, you just have a massive complex and are too much of an idiot to notice it.

>>4993233
You don't get it, I just am sick of seeing art circulated by the Japanese. Has nothing to do with their race anyone bringing up race/politics that stops me from seeking other artwork. It has more to do with feeling like a pleb. It's a complex kind of pissed off.

>>4993375
we do often create complex mental narratives to justify non-issues

>>4993375
Like okay I scroll through my timeline and "ooh pretty girl in meido outfit" hit [<3] and admire their prowess for the 30 to 50 other times I liked their artwork elsewhere like Pinterest, booru, etc. And then I continue to scroll and same day, same shit being circulated as I click on the Japanese profiles they're all "in on it" retweeting the same stuff, talking to each other about inane stuff. They'd post quick stuff as a joke "lap it up you worthless do--I mean loyal followers" in an attempt to be witty". You know what I'm talking about, those really low effort sketches that is 10% of their abilities.
Everyday, 365. I'm just really tired of being an "admirer" of skill. I want the skill. While at the same time (hate? not really the word I have at this time) all Japanese artist with a booming pixiv for porn.

It's a mix of jealously, boredom and "enough already".

>>4993395
they're all in on it because they're friends and they like sharing each other's work, it's not some sort of tinfoil cult lmao

if you want the skill then get the skill. it's really quite simple. say to yourself what you would be, and then do what you have to do. it's hard, but it's simple

>>4993405
>they're all in on it because they're friends and they like sharing each other's work
Yeah I know and it's little things like that which gets me jealous. Like you say it's a minor non-issue and maybe I just woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.

I spend all day in bed and can't do anything, what do

>>4993425
you know what do, you just don't want to do it because you're lazy

>>4993395
FOUR EARS

>>4993425
Reach downwards and start tugging and I guess go with whatever happens next.

>>4988426
>schizo episode
>vented all accumulated bad things to my SO with a series of drawings
>SO moves out next day

>>4993425
are you depressed?
maybe you aren't getting the food your body needs

HOW DO I RIP SCHOOLISM VIDEOS AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>4993478
IDM? First day on the internet?

>>4993481
i've tried that. Doesn't work.

>>4993272
>who's there to help the helper?
Most of the shit we do for others is thankless. The trick is to have more passion for what you're giving than for what you're receiving. It's vocation, sense of duty, dharma or whatever.

>women will never understand what its like to feel helpless
You're wrong, but ok and? Don't let that stop you from becoming all that you can be. Grief and move forward. Who would you be without this thought?

>>4993101
I don't wanna get on an argument here, but I, anon, got a saner relationship with other artists and art since i stopped wanting to make it. Be it a work at the office or supermarket or art world, you'll most likely produce for someone that isn't you for 35h a week (I'm French) so I'd prefer not to make it and advise fragile people to not try to make it for their sake and the sake of art

>>4993357
>just go to a sanctioned lobotomist so she will give you brain destroying pills while failing to give you a single rational reason why the world is great and people are trustworthy and when you still manage to BTFO her non-argument she'll go "ughh! this is so frustrating! not only you are a male with problems, you need to be interned! you will never become a productive member of this society if you keep making sense instead of just believing everything is fine!"

>>4989149
>>4993511
Good god, you seem like the BIGGEST faggot

>>4993511
Even your shitty parody of what she might say to you has more truth to it than your pathetic ranting. You are REALLY delusional, if you think therapy has anything to do with lobotomy you might aswell just buy Alex Jones brain pills

>>4993511
imagine thinking you have to btfo everyone's nonarguments when they're trying to help you

a sad little shell of a man

>>4993511
Therapists don’t give you pills, you can find one that specializes in cognitive therapy to help how you think about things in a less negative way. Seeing a therapist shouldn’t be about trying to BTFO their arguments... there’s no winning or loosing a fight, unless you constantly think you are always right and everyone in the world is wrong and needs to be shown how they’re wrong in which case I dunno man good luck with that.

Anyone else here a night owl? I've been trying to get more sleep so I can start drawing earlier in the day, but I'm almost always more alert when the sun goes down.

I am finally tired of whinning and complaining about my art being shit, but I have done nothing to change it. I am done trying to just avoid things I dont want to do. If I just sat and complained all day instead of drawing nothing is going to happen, so what if my art is terrible I am at least capable of making it better. I want to stop being so stubborn and helpless and at least try to figure out some stuff on my own.

>>4993516
>Even your shitty parody of what she might say to you
This was my 2.5 year experience with the frauds
Mental health professionals are literally there to declare everyone who doesn't feel happy with this shitty society insane
You can't have a point if a professional says you are defective for simply being unhappy
But hey, they're the same people who say being a tranny is 100% normal

>>4993808
you are not defective for being unhappy, schizo. you are unhappy because you consistently behave in a defective way. given how many people have replied to you by now it seems your retardation is so deep set that no goliath will be able to shift it. good luck with your great theories

>>4993808
also i have to salute the joker larp, it's really convincing. maybe you could shoot someone and cry in a toilet

>>4993818
I'm not the guy from the start of the conversation. But I am sure that many people replying to my posts is enough of a guarantee that I am crazy and you're totally right.
I walked into that bullshit because I was depressed, simply because I was unhappy. I was diagnosed with major depression and nothing else, and the only argument I have heard from the sanctioned lobotomists as they gave me their drugs was a variation of "you are supposed to be happy with the idea of working every day with no particular ambition in mind, in a society whose values are literally the opposite of the ones you hold dear" and at some point they started gaslighting me into shit I did not believe in just to find a pretext that I had some deep-seated reason to be unhappy when I had none.
Fuck off. This society is shit. You sweep everything under the rug. If someone's unhappy you say
>please seek professional help (because nobody gives a fuck, actually), here's this copy/pasted number you have to call so I can feel good that I sent you toward some help
You give 0 fucks if your society is destroying the world because, hey, we moved the factories overseas, we put all the animals into a walled off concentration camp, and we don't even know where the poor niggers who produce products are or what language they speak, so we can be concerned that social justice is about not saying bad words.
It is YOU who behave in a defective way. YOU are the schizos, you fucking retards. Can't you see what the fuck you are doing? Do you think your behavior is sane as a society?

>>4993212
>>4993395
Based desu. The 100k+ nip accounts really have started to make me bitter. They aren't even better than the smaller artists I follow, they just put out more content and it's all treated like you said, fast food. And something about how the masses flock to their pieces then quickly forget all about them a couple days later really rubs me the wrong way. It's like there's no respect or understanding for the process and time it takes to create, and also the grind to get there. I feel like the ability to shit out completed pieces every 2 days is something normies really take for granted.

I put my effort and attention into smaller "more relatable" accounts. I know my measly 1 like and retweet mean nothing in the grand scheme, but it honestly does feel at least a bit good not to add to that soulless hivemind culture you were alluding to. It really does me no favors.

Give me that artist that's still skilled but was on hiatus for 5 months because they were busy with work and family, or were struggling with motivation. When those accounts post it's always a treat.

>>4993848
yes exactly, anon.

>>4993839
>i'm not schizo, everybody else is schizo!
like i said good luck with your great theories

>>4993871
>the masses are always right! the system is perfect!
amazing rebuttal, you would be a brilliant mental health "professional"

>>4993891
it's not about the masses or the system, some of the things you've listed are legitimate problems and society has very many issues, as do people. based on the way you greentexted my post, it seems like you're pretty comfortable with extrapolating bullshit that fits your narrative.

the problem is the way you've chosen to deal with it. i'm really at my wit's end with trying to explain this to you and it seems like you will never understand, because you're always on the defensive and completely incapable of stepping outside your own logic circuits. have fun

>>4993904
Can you please tell me where exactly I misconstrued your argument or didn't sum up correctly what you said, assuming you're referring to the actual posts I wrote and not other posts that you assume I made?
Can you tell me what other choices I actually have to "deal with it"? Because as I said, the only choice I have been given was to suck it up and march along.

>>4993950
I said "you are calling 7 billion people schizophrenic and denying that it might be you"

To which you said "you are saying that the system is perfect and has no issues"

I never mentioned the system, nor did I say it was perfect, nor did I deny that it had issues. These are all the things you misconstrued from my post, whereas I quite literally quoted your post word for word. This should be quite simple to see.

As for your solution, that's pretty much it. Why it's taken you so long to come face to face with the fact that the world is inherently unfair is a mystery, maybe you haven't been paying attention. It's not that everyone else on the planet is complicit in some death cult that you've been excluded from, most people have their own problems to deal with and have found ways to move forward and try to make the world a better place, at least as far as they are able within their localised bubble. Sometimes, they are able to find happiness too. Real power in all of these regards has always been reserved for the minority at the top, which is again obvious and a part of what makes life unfair. Instead of thinking about how you might act against this and improve it somewhat, you have decided that everybody bar you is a retard schizophrenic and they're all in on it. You address society as if it was some amorphous hivemind blob, and then somehow justify shitting on petty social justice despite the fact that fundamentally it's at least trying to fix some of these discrepancies. Instead of asking how you might go about finding or creating happiness in this imbalanced chaos, as people have been doing with philosophy for centuries, you have decided that it is some irredeemably broken structure that somehow doesn't include you. Everyone is an asshole and everyone is a problem, and somehow they are not also just people dealing with the imbalanced chaos just like you. Any shred of the empathy required to solve these problems, you've completely thrown out.

>>4993970
There are books to be written on this subject and I ran out of characters and frankly can't be bothered to continue, I'm not even being paid. At the very least, post some art on this fucking art board instead of complaining about your gripes with big bad humanity

Can't tell if satire or real

>>4993970
So I didn't misconstrue shit.
You called me a "schizo" (something that EVERY person does when I express these issues) for the things I said when I was simply depressed aka "clinically unhappy" but you will allow no sweeping hyperbole on my part. OK, fine, you can take liberties because you are on the right side, how could I forget. But even considering the liberties you took when calling me a schizo, YES, you are saying the system has no inherent issue when you are very strongly implying that it cannot possibly be blamed because "7 billion people are in on it" and that the only problem is that I cannot "cope", which by itself implies that the masses are doing the right thing and cannot possibly be doing the wrong thing.
>Why it's taken you so long to come face to face with the fact that the world is inherently unfair
You also invented this, I did not complain that the world is inherently unfair. I have simply replied in a post that handwaved existential problems by telling someone to go to a therapist, and I pointed out that therapists exist not to help anybody, but simply to reinforce that the system is right. They only exist to put all the blame for unhappiness on the individual himself, because he cannot "cope" with modernity (my issue is with modern life, not life).
I know you are already thinking that "old people had it worse in the past", I do not care, this is a fallacy, I did not say that we are living in the worst times, I am simply saying that modern life and the industrial system are by themselves the cause of these issues.
Everything else you said is just platitudes and I wipe my ass with them. "People deal with this every day and they find happiness." Well some people do not, and they are called mentally ill exclusively because of that. That was my post. Mental health professionals are completely incapable of discussing philosophical issues, in fact they exist to turn philosophical issues into medical ones.

>>4992608

I should also mention that when they ask for help, they tend to talk more.
"How can I make this better?" is not a particularly specific question, and doesnt tell the mentor what you need.

You need to hone in a particular aspect of your work that have trouble with.
"How do I draw faces better" worse question than "How do I keep the facial features in proportion when drawing from this angle?"

The second question is easier to solve because you know exactly what the person is asking about.

>>4994004
clearly not an iota of what i said has sunk in. you say i'm implying "the masses are doing the right thing and cannot be possibly doing the wrong thing", when i have spent my whole post trying to explain to you why it's not you vs the masses and why they're not all doing the "right thing" (where did you even get this weird moralistic claim? as far as i'm concerned there is no objectively right thing to do, but i certainly didn't refer to that or anything "right" in my post.) you seem to be completely incapable of perceiving that other humans exist and have thoughts about the world that are much similar to yours, and that some people even voice these complaints and try to fix it with whatever subjective utopia they have in mind.

the fact that you can not cope with reality and deflect from this is a clear sign of your delusion. why you expect some other choice to be given to you and within your power is a mystery, but once again reeks of delusion. whatever it is you've decided you want the world to rightfully give to you is never going to happen.

you can dismiss anything i write as a platitude if you want. the fact remains that your worldview is not only completely blinkered, but completely counterproductive in improving a single one of the issues you've listed, and this includes your own happiness. your anger at therapists (again, not a hivemind conspiracy as you'd like to believe) for having to try to explain these delusions to ingrained psychos who are trying to "btfo their nonarguments" is totally pointless.

you are flailing your arms. you are screaming at the void. this is the first response of someone who has been faced with the nature of life. get over it or don't - the cosmos at large has not a single shit to give about you or your fictional presuppositions. feel free to go through the rest of your miserable life calling everyone an asshole, just like the other anon. the sad thing here is that you've decided this is really the best you can do.

>>4994019
>you are delusional because I say so, schizo x100, nobody cares, you have no choice but march along
thanks for proving me right on every single point, can you at least write shorter posts so I waste less of my time?

Anons,
My problem is this, I began drawing 2 years ago, although 2 years ago I was also a shithead and had little motivation or drive to do anything in life, that has changed dramatically. I've gotten my degree since then, a career, I've become good at boxing and took up lifting weights. In the early days I was drawing randomly one or twice a week and it was DeviantArt art tier trash. I was demotivated and unsure of how to proceed. Over the course of two years my enjoyment of drawing and my level of discipline went up and slowly I became much more involved, drawing every day as of 8 months ago. Despite all this everyday I lament the time I've lost incessantly to the point where it even interferes with my daily life, I obsess about how I could've been good at art by now if I had been serious, how I'm so old and even if I learn I will never be good enough because people much younger than me were at this level 5 years before my age.
I see all these great artists that make beautiful things and I want that too but drawing is just torturous instead of fun...I hate everything I draw and whenever I draw I can only think about how shit it is and "I've been doing this for two years and this is all I can do". I draw all the time and it's just unfun and awful it makes me sad like I've wasted my entire life even if I know it's not true and I feel like I draw like a child like I just don't get it and never will and all these people they just get it th y just draw and learn and have creative licence to do as they please while I'm stuck grasping at straws lost in the dark trying to make something even worth sharing ... and then I'll be too old, too old to be drawing nice things I keep setting goals to get good by 24, I'm 23 now and everytime I don't draw I become unreasonably angry
That's all

>>4994026
seems the time being wasted here is mine. i'd say have a good day but i know you won't

>>4994032
>i'd say have a good day but i know you won't
actually I'm having a decent time these days and I'm fairly unaffected by the whole corona situation, actually I find it hilarious

>>4989149
This is unironically why I take breaks from 4chan. People are awful, you included.

>>4993839
This is the same kind of retard who regularly visits pol and takes the out of context infographics and memes as "red pills". His whole world view is based around this bubble built by Alex Jones tier conspiratards and alt right youtube channels baiting idiots for clicks.

Just a disgusting narcissistic retard who blames all his shortcomings on everyone else.

I fantasize about being homeless so I can just sleep allday instead of being at this job. I feel like I'd rather be homeless than do this job, but I know if I tried being homeless for a week I'd give up on that, and I know it's pointless in the end because I can't be homeless forever, but here I am stuck with this crap job.

>>4994080
>I will now build an entire persona upon your post that is completely wrong in every way because, ironically, my whole world view is based on prepackaged internet stereotypes that I passively swallow every day from the internet's cock
Again, if people want me to believe that I'm not facing an amorphous hive-mind they should actually stop behaving as such at least some of the time.

>>4994085
grass is always greener brother. try to use your time as well as you can given the restrictions and then look for a better job when the opportunity presents itself (or even start looking now, although the circumstances aren't ideal)

>wanna learn to draw everything in different styles
>not enough time

>>4994130
>want to know how do draw in consistent style to make a comic some day
>can't stay on-model for more than one drawing

>>4994004

>Books that can help anyone (You can find these for free in libgen.is)

-Flow by Michaly Chzhhzlelevhjbhjndjfnhfj (taught me to get interested in life)

-The Tao of Fully Feeling, Harvesting Forgiveness out of Blame by Pete Walker (Life changing for me. Wish I read this sooner.)

-The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People

-The Power of Now By Ekchar Tolle (helps with spiraling thoughts and self control)

-Mastery by George Leonnards (important for any budding artist)

-The Craftsman by Richard Sennett (a bit difficult but worth the read)


>>4994088
Not everyone has the sweet combination of a mutilated ego, pride and consciousness to pursue their ambitions with dedication. Instead of hating people for being a hivemind, focus on giving a little bit of yourself to them. That way, if you see yourself in them, then in a way you are part of them and can be reconnected with the world.
Its true, western therapists suck. But what's great is that we live in an age of information and we're all adults here capable of conducting our own growth. Our system does us a great disservice by making us believe we need someone to guide us in our learning journey.
There's this guy called HealthyGamerGG (YES) on youtube who might be more helpful than that therapist you had. He does holistic therapy for recovering gaming addicts' (YES)

in an art school but feel like i'm /beg/ tier

everytime i come on this board i feel like i slowly regress

need to improve my figure drawing / construction skills but don't even know where to start

>>4988426
Russian Santa gets drunk and steals peoples shit.

>>4994088
>>I will now build an entire persona upon your post that is completely wrong in every way because, ironically, my whole world view is based on prepackaged internet stereotypes that I passively swallow every day from the internet's cock
Kinda like how you do to others? The irony of this self absorbed ass

>>4994590
>Kinda like how you do to others?
Can you tell me where I put anybody in some dumb internet category e.g. incels/sjws based on the way they called me a schizo with no real argument to back it up?

>>4994173
>Instead of hating people for being a hivemind, focus on giving a little bit of yourself to them.
Been there done that, for years actually. I'm done. Maybe there's still something to find but right now I am completely drained of faith.
And only lately I've become openly hateful, for the longest time I put the blame on myself.

This dumb bitch deletes the file off the server "Tee-hee!! It was an awwcident uwu" God damn it

Why the fuck is there no 100% zoom function in procreate

Why are artists so sore? Posters on /ic/ are wildly aggressive and argumentative even by 4chan standards. For such a faggy hobby you kids sure know how to act like tough guys. Quick poll, how many of you retards were bullied growing up?

Bros my little brother just got diagnosed with leukemia. our mom died last year and things were just starting to get normal again. what the fuck do i even do?

>>4995210
The bump limits hit bro it. Didn’t bump to the front page, you deserve a response, I’d make a new vent thread before this slides off the last page and I’ll reply there

>>4995210
what would they want you to do?

>>4994646
You give yourself to people, or find something you like in them you want to take. To be satisfied, what you're giving has to be something you're so dead-set on giving that you don't care whether you get a thanks or not. As for what you can find in individuals, dignity of life, humor, humanity, kindness. Everyone has some combination of this. If that's not enough for you, that's not their problem.

As for faith, you don't need to blindly believe in anything at all. Just observe the world.
When I was an edgy brat, if I could wipe out all of mankind at the push of a button, I reasoned that I should because the amount of human suffering outweighed the momentary glimpses of happiness in most of people's lives. But wouldn't you argue human life has gotten better? Thanks to the invention of the internet, everyone gets a chance at learning and connecting with people all over the globe. Most people live in peace somewhat. And those who don't are able to at least find comfort in art for free. Not only that, but there are vast resources of knowledge available for literally mostly everyone, and as time goes on, our education system will restructure to teach people to empower themselves with this information. As long as there is potential for humanity, then it can be argued that there will be a point in time most people will live with dignity, pride and compassion and die satisfied. If I pushed the button, I'd be sabotaging that.

The truth of this world is that it is indifferent, so we owe it to ourselves to show compassion to our fellow human beings.

As for blame, its complex. You can't blame yourself for everything and you can't blame everyone for everything. You shouldn't blame but you should also blame so you can forgive. NO ONE IS SAFE. Read the Tao of Forgiveness. I am pretty sure the audiobook is floating around somewhere in audiobookbay.nl

Pandora's box is yours to open. I am merely showing you where it is. Whether you can manage its gifts is up to you.

>>4994027
I too am 23 and have made little progress. I used to draw like once every 2 months until a few months ago lol. You will probably not be able to reach your goals quickly without serious effort and time invested to make up for the time you've lost, and that's okay. Grinding and killing yourself with regret will do nothing but hamper you. Go at a comfortable pace, or you're not gonna make it. I've seen it destroy many aspiring artists whose passion couldn't outweigh their frustration. It doesn't matter what other people do, or how good they are, or what age they are. What matters is that you put forth a consistent effort to improve and broaden your artistic abilities. When you capture the beauty and skill you want to express, no one is gonna give a fuck if you're 18 or 80, and you shouldn't either. All that matters is the love you feel for the act of creation, the pure enjoyment of putting your insides on the outside.
I know you already know all that and it isn't going to help you, but I had to say it anyway because I'm really saying it to myself. If you have a passion for it, you'll see it through to the end of your life. And you'll get where you want to be. It'll be worth it.

ever feel like you're destined for some kind of freak accident before you can actually get good

>>4995134
a lot of artists are people who are missing something in their life
for people who choose art its the amount of life experience and opportunities they've missed out on honing their skills. They might also be so sore because they don't know how to actually act with real people

for people who had to take up art later in life its the soreness that they couldn't follow their dreams, and they're full of jealousy of the people who could or had the opportunities present to them at an early age.

>>4995456
>But wouldn't you argue human life has gotten better?
No. I think the industrial revolution has been a fucking scourge on humanity and things got worse ever since.

>>4995456
He's gonna ignore everything you said and double down on his edgy faggotry, watch

>>4995134
I was more of a bully than anything else as a kid. Coincidently, I haven't ever been rude to anyon on /ic/. I figure if I can't say anything helpful, why would I tear someone down instead? Better to be positive.

>>4995470
My brother in arms
Why are we like this...I do know already, but it won't help, maybe we expect too much of ourselves after all what is 2 years against some people's lifetime of experience. What can we expect. It just hurts to have wasted time. It goes beyond drawing I am obsessive about time passing. Idk if I'm scared to die or scared my life is going by and it all leads to nowhere. I feel beyond petty teenage existentialism and I don't think that's what it is. It's almost as if I must make the most of life and be fulfilled and excel in everything or else I have lived a fruitless and pointless existence. But it's unrealistic and all it does is prevent from ever enjoying anything.

>>4995717
Why though? Lmao

>feel insecure drawpilling with friends because you focus to much on constructing when they skip that stuff

I feel like being beg is just ngmi

>>4993839
It's not normal to be so weak that you can't work or have a normal, average life. You are the mental equivalent of someone who is born with no skin. Everyone has to deal with society being bad and trying to find meaning in life, but you take the fact that you are bad at doing that an spin it as some kind of heroism. Grow up dude.

>>4994027
>being mad at 23
Open your eyes. "Better late than never" are words to live by. I'm twenty fucking eight and I lost a decade of my life to being a anxiety-ridden NEET, I'm at a point in my life that seems similar to yours, but I just accept it and move forward. I never had a choice, it's either this or stay shitty forever. Not being an expert at art at age 23 is fucking nothing, hopefully you can get over it. Good luck man.

>>4994027
man i wish i had this realization when i was your age
instead, i spent 2 years wasting my time

ever feel so sad that like
you can't even fap

>>4994027
>DeviantArt art tier trash

This is a dumb meme. Lots of good artists post there. Even the children who are render monkeys walk circles around lots of people here.

why does my wrist gotta hurt guys
i just want to draw, i just want to be able to make something good one day

>>4993495
the only women with character are the ones who've been raped