/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Some western / indie publishers that seem to have a decent readership and are tolerant of or specifically cater to Manga:

Saturday AM ( https://www.saturday-am.com/ )
> Digital indie magazine, seems to be on the up-and-up
> Open submissions for long-form series; also distributes series currently being published elsewhere.
> Regularly publishes one-shots, making it a good potential outlet for already-finished work.

Noir Caesar ( https://www.noircaesar.com/ )
> Focuses on black (specifically African-American) content, but seems willing to publish anyone good enough.
> Seemingly series-based only.
> No "magazine" style updates; series are updated on their own schedule.
> Seems less regular than Saturday AM, but also seems larger in terms of readership.

Oni Press ( https://onipress.com/ )
> Technically indie, but at this point large enough by comic standards to be mentioned in the same breath as other publishers.

Antarctic Press ( https://antarctic-press.myshopify.com/ )
> Longtime large-indie publisher of OEL / manga-esque books.
> Seemingly taking submissions at present if http://www.antarctic-press.com/html/submissions.php is anything to go on.

Viz Media / Viz Originals ( https://www.viz.com/originals )
> *The* western manga publisher.
> Currently in the exploratory stages of setting up an English label.
> Submissions are open and several books have been announced. However, progress on the label seems to be moving very slowly.
> Still might be worth a shot anyway.

How (You) can help /mmg/:

> Know about a contest or a publishing opportunity? TAG THE OP and post a link.
> Have a new resource? TAG THE OP and link / mention it for conclusion.
> Have a link / DL for a mentioned resource? TAG THE OP and mention what you're supplying a link for.
> SCREENSHOT / PASTEBIN effortposts that help you for posterity.

How do you tell when artists actually draw their own backgrounds?
>>4930737 has left me a bit disillusioned honestly. I mean I'm pretty much a beginner but thinking that I want to draw my own backgrounds while everyone else just achieves something way more impressive with barely any effort makes me kind of feel bad.

>>4932986
I draw all my own backgrounds, because I don't want backgrounds that look like everyone else's. Tokyo is just tokyo no matter how well you trace it. Tracing backgrounds is for artists who can't come up with an interesting world or setting

>>4932986
It's a necessity most of the time. When you're churning out 10-15 pages a week or double that monthly you'll take any and every shortcut you can that will make your work look good. Sure there are some out there that still manage it all but we're not all born with the pen skills of a god. Always remember anon: no rules, only tools.

>>4932994
Tracing backgrounds is for artists who have publishing deadlines lol

>>4933003
And it's very unlikely anyone here would ever have those. Why adopt a corner-cutting work ethic and sabotage your own art when you don't have to?

>>4933005
I think that as long as it looks good, who the hell cares? If you want to chisel away at a soap bar like a mental patient drawing all your backgrounds freehand yourself at the cost of publishing a chapter once a month, go crazy

>>4932986
>How do you tell when artists actually draw their own backgrounds?
When they're rough and quick. See: Seven Deadly Sins, Dorohedoro.

>>4933018
I just want to get better at drawing and create something that looks good from my own hand, I have no delusions that I'm going to become a "professional mangaka" and be put on tight schedules by strict publishers. Realistically nobody here is, so why act like it?

Why would you want the stress of trying to find shortcuts and worrying if anyone notices? By the time you found the perfect reference picture to trace you could have finished drawing it yourself, and be much more proud of the work.

>>4933005
There’s corner cutting and there’s streamlining the process. You can pre-draw assets and copy paste the same building in every shot in it. Or you can design your custom environments in Blender to aid you with keeping things consistent. If you can seamlessly blend those tools with your art style than there’s no problem. Deadline or not, you don’t want to waste too much time.
Like this guy who spent 13 years one comic: https://youtu.be/6BzCDVR-tr8

>>4933026
>and be put on tight schedules by strict publishers. Realistically nobody here is, so why act like it?
Not him but you sound like a someone without aspirations. No drive, all excuses. It's admrible that you want to do everything the hardest way possible, I respect it. But some people have goals, want to push it until they make it even if it's lofty so studying techniques that save time, that lessen the load on their work while still looking great, will only make that dream a closer reality. Even the greats cut corners where they could.

>>4933026
finding shortcuts is not stressful, because a lot of the shortcuts have been discovered by mangakas before you, worrying if anyone notices is not stressful, because traced backgrounds is very common in manga, its not hard to find background references and with the right amount of adding your own touch to it you can make it look better and adapt it to your setting

at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter and its up to you what you want to do, if you like drawing backgrounds than go for it, but regardless, this discussion is completely pointless, some people want to draw cool action shots with interesting stories, others want to draw pretty pieces with interesting stories, no method is better than the other if we're speaking in terms of "looks"

>>4933038
like this anon said, i get more satisfaction with starting and finishing a chapter, making it look good and finishing it in a timely matter, spending two months on one chapter because i wanted really elaborate detailed focused backgrounds doesnt sound very fulfilling, because we are drawing stories, if i wanted fully detailed drawings i would draw pieces on their own
that's not to say, you don't want to throw in really amazing pages in your work either, it's all about finding a balance in progressing your story, expressing yourself and finishing things

>>4933005
>And it's very unlikely anyone here would ever have those.
you mean apart from every single person who participated in the tezuka anniversary contest?

>>4933005
There are many people in this thread series that want to be professionals anon. That's part of the reason why this general is more serious than 90% of the board.

>>4932986
More than >>4933024, I would say when they have their own sense of style that matches that of the characters or just generally feels distinct from what you normally see. Made In Abyss, for instance, has hand-drawn backgrounds that are still painstakingly crafted. You can tell because they're just so strange and Out There compared to what you see in a lot of manga; there's no place he could have "gotten" them from other than his own mind and hand and some material / natural reference.

>>4933026
Manga artists can afford to draw all day because it’s their job. Idk why you are so fixated on tracing backgrounds, what do you think they are doing with their day? They draw 9-5, that will be enough to get them to draw exceptionally well with just their hand as you say.
They trace backgrounds for efficiency, they definitely have the skill to do it, just not the time.

These people are not stressing spending hours looking for the perfect reference picture, I think you are seriously over complicating things.
A lot of manga artists have assistants that create basic 3D models which are drawn over so they don’t have to look for the perfect picture but still not have to worry about perspective or using a ruler to perfectly line everything up from imagination. The result will be the same anyway, a background in correct perspective.
You can just model a set in the most basic in textured shapes and then add the details from your imagination later. They are tracing over literally every little detail.

There is no wrong way to draw a manga dude, this stuff is to meet deadlines.

>>4933026
>I just want to get better at drawing and create something that looks good from my own hand,
that's not the right outlook imo.
just focus on the result and the result only.
don't dismiss modern tools just for the sake of purism.
much better arguments would be:
>i don't want to be completely reliant and helpless without 3D models.
>3D models or reference traces are good for some things, but not everything.

a lot of artists use 3D models to help their workflow.
look at this for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqZfHLbxrcM&t=3909s
all the knives were positioned and made with the help of 3D models (you can see that in some later videos). ocasionally he also uses 3D dolls for poses.

also if you ever tried to draw a city like that on your own you'd realize how much effort and time it takes and how dry the work is even with simpler backgrounds.

>>4932994
It’s really neat when assistants draw fiction world BGs

>>4933076
>They draw 9-5, that will be enough to get them to draw exceptionally well with just their hand as you say.
Not him but a lot of them spend a lot of time on storyboards, like more than half the week. Then they just blast out the inking in the last few days with a team of assistants. Nothing to do with tracing, just wanted to point out that by their own admission a lot of that time is on storyboards not inking.

Thoughts so far on this bad boy I’m working on, is the character design unappeleaing?do the colours work,can I get away with this shifty lineart? Bring it on I don’t mind

How do I extract the line art from a photo for easy manga style backgrounds with Krita? page 1 of google gives me nothing.

>>4933026
Because when you're practing art as an /int/ you will want to be grinding something actually useful and not drawing a billion fucking boxes by hand. Have you ever tried to draw a city by hand? It will not be a pleasant experience.

>>4933137
The faces are uncanny. The whole “no mouth” thing might work better on a more chibi-esque design. The bodies could use a bit more polish, but they’re good otherwise. I’m not a fan of the colors, but I don’t know what the story is about. It also seems like something that’d blend in in Webtoons. Whenever you are going for that or not.

>>4933147
Somehow they look even uncannier with a mouth

>>4933152
That would be because that mouth is where the nose should be. Place it on the jaw.

Anyway I would add that the poses seem... stiff. Why are their gloves up but they're just standing around? Are they in the ring or are they just rubbing their faces?

>>4933140
pirate photoshop, put the filter, transfer it over to krita

>>4933161
Made the pose less stiff and more relaxed, as far as adding the mouth I’ve tried but it really doesn’t fit with the style I’m going for

>>4933137
The designs look like you’re trying to be clever but it’s clear you just are trying to take shortcuts due to lack of ability

>>4933203
I suggest you fix that neck. That aside. What kind of story is this? Why this style?

>>4933207
What’s happening here is a light sparring session,the girl with the white hair gets invited to an underground boxing math , a la Kenyan Asura,does pretty well , sometimes even stomping her opponents, but at the last match she gets punched so hard she goes in a coma for 20 years and from there on it becomes a revenge plot to to kill the guy that knocked her out, also penguins have taken over the world and formed a totalitarian regime, so yep
>>4933204
Oh yes absolutely, this isent my usual style, after the time skip all the characters look less round and soft like this

>>4932986
Difference between hand drawing a background, and tracing/3D is several days, vs a couple hours. Now, multiply that for EVERY panel with a background, of which, you will need many. Even with 3D/photos it’s still a lot of work as you need to blend it with the style, and that takes time. The former can be totally impossible in some cases depending on the setting given deadlines. Manga is there to tell a story, not brag about how you labored yourself to death over meaningless details. The manga that have heavy use of bgs, tend to rely on 3D and photography. The ones that don’t tend to use more white space or abstract bgs. Or the art-style is very simplistic. Also, even in the pic in that OP, you can tell the bottom panel is hand-drawn, and the top is traced. Blending the two so it’s not immediately obvious is where the artistic skill comes in.

Everyone in that thread who bemoans the fact that 3D or tracing is used, has never tried to make a manga. Even with tracing, it’s still incredibly difficult, and no one acting like it’s “easy” could ever pull off anything like Chainsawman even with tracing. That’s why I challenged them to try.

I don't care for manga or animes but I'm curious if any of you faggots have ever made it? Has there been anyone from this general who's been published?

>>4933005
There’s several anons working toward making this a full-time job. Including some maniac that moved to Japan to do it. You’d be surprised.

>>4933229
>The manga that have heavy use of bgs, tend to rely on 3D and photography. The ones that don’t tend to use more white space or abstract bgs.
You're forgetting the 3rd option which is assistants drawing BGs by hand, which I would think is the majority.

>>4933231
This general is literally a few months old anon. And manga take several months to make when you’re working a full-time job. Most everyone here participated in the Tezuka contest, so their efforts went toward that. Now everyone is focusing on the next thing while they wait for the results in December.

Me personally, I’m working on a storyboard for a pilot for a story pitch I wanna get published in Japan. I’ll be taking it to Shueisha for feedback with the aim of getting a monthly publication deal for next year, by the end of this month/early Nov.

So you’ll have your answer by then I guess.

>>4933237
Depends. Assistants will also often rely on using the tools available to them to speed up the workflow because a highly detailed hand drawn bg is several days of labor. If it’s more simplistic like One Piece, then obviously it’s hand drawn, bit generally they’ll use photos, 3D assets, and so on. Just look at all the ads for assistants in Japan, and what they demands. There are exceptions ofc. Berserk os hand drawn for example. But the majority rely on the tools available.

>>4933229
>Difference between hand drawing a background, and tracing/3D is several days, vs a couple hours

For me it's a couple hours vs a few minutes, how long does it take you to draw? Not trying to shit on you, but I always thought I was on the slower side

>>4933334
Not that anon, but the detail and layout of the background are going to be a major deciding factor on time. It's entirely possible that you two are thinking about / working on two entirely different levels of complexity.

>>4933334
Depends on the amount of detail.

>>4933334
For me it was several hours per panel with a bg in Rosenrot. Which turned some pages from “at least 1 a day” to “a couple days for this one,” which also hurt, cause several bgs still aren’t up to my standards in terms of quality, and feel could be better if I spent more time on them. Spreads or large splashes took a couple days though ofc.

>>4933374
A couple days? Damn. I don't think any of the pages in From The Wizard's Tower took me more than 10 hours total, most being around the 4-6 hours mark between sketching, characters, BG and effects. Particularly around the end some of the more background-intense pages I sprinted through in like 4 hours. This taught me that I spend so much time just fucking around, and when the deadline grows nearer that fucking around disappears and I actually spend all my time focused on drawing as fast as I can.
This experience made me want to join a magazine for the sole benefit of having a strict deadline that I cannot afford to miss. Without that fire under my ass I lack the discipline to shut out distractions and focus.

I have a bunch of Manben episodes. Is anybody interested? I'll upload them to mega but it might take until tomorrow.

>>4933386
Not him but yeah that’s how it tends to be when it comes to less deadlines and big projects. Social media and the overall ease of access to distractions like this website really harms our growth if we let them lure us in

>>4933005
that's not sabotaging your own art. If you've ever drawn an expansive cityscape you would know how grueling the process is and how incredibly hard it is to make a completely imagined city look authentic. Unironically post your work.

Just let the retards who want to draw their own city from scratch be. More retards means less competition.

>>4933062
Made in the Abyss has backgrounds done by the assistants.

>>4933396
Yes, upload please

Enter BACKGROUNDSchad

Should my first page be a setting establishing shot, or a character introduction shot? What would make you turn the page more?

>>4933599
gotcha. It includes season 1 and 2 full. 3/4 episodes out of season 3 and only 1/4 of season 4 and a making of Jojo which I forgot was in there, I'm estimating to have it uploaded within 5 hours.

>>4933611
Manga in Theory and Practice: The Craft of Creating Manga
https://mega.nz/folder/Dd4hnZTC#EjMIcTDPLbWXkAJLPHx2Kg

Read this for some insight. Page 21-38

>>4933396
Please share them with us!!!

Why don't we have a backgrounds jam session? Post your best backgrounds and ask / answer questions as to how certain things were achieved.

Any anons here living off your art income? I’m wondering how you manage to put time into learning how to make comics as well as working on things that give you the income. It must be a very busy schedule

>>4933787
I used to till I moved to Japan. I could live off commissions still if I wanted, but that won’t get me a work visa. That’s the dilemma I’ve got basically.

> It must be a very busy schedule
It is. But the busy lifestyle is hardly the issue, it’s having to switch mentally in and out of a creative mindset. When you can focus on being creative all day, there’s less of an issue regarding getting into flow. You can spend all day thinking of your story or whatever while doing a commission for someone else. It’s much harder to draw up the energy to sit down and be creative after a long day of working and such.

Ended up finding a page test I did around the end of last year. I really hated it at the time, but looking at some of the pages now, I feel like maybe I was on to something.

>>4933871
Yeah doing commissions all the time and thinking about what you want to create is a bit of a downer but we all need money. I think my biggest worry is never being able to adapt to a very Japanese manga style, worried I might stay in the western anime imitation zone forever. I’ll have to keep practicing

>>4933005
This thread literally started because we were all entering a contest and working towards a deadline. How retarded can you get

>>4933636
Tag the OP with this too, so that we can put the link in the next thread.

>>4933137
I like it. The no nose/mouth style actually makes it look really interesting and distinct. I would stick with it

>>4933152
>>4933203
How about this?

>>4934037
It doesn’t really fit the atmosphere I’m going for, and considering it’s a silent comic, so no talking, the mouths are superfluous

>>4934043
I see.

>>4934045>>4934037

Tho mad prompts for giving it a shot :)

>>4931655
Inked it here >>4933459, playing around with text boxes. I kind of like lots of dialog on the pages because i feel like it makes the page view last longer since you are reading, but i don’t think anyone actually reads these anyways. I also enjoy writing stupid puns...

Today they are meeting up with a Private Investigator named Ladybug

>>4934122
I feel like your greys are muddying up your inks anon. Have you considered using more white space and letting your lines stand on their own more often?

>>4932814
>>4933396
>>4933599
>>4933636
>>4933666
>>4934000
MANBEN - Come get it before it's taken down!

https://mega.nz/folder/9h1mUYSJ#8sJoO57nMP_JhjnujBXkpQ

>>4934322
i'm on my way!!
thanks

>>4934322
Nice! Thanks! :) Very cool

>>4933871
What are you working as in japan if I may ask? And how did you find a job there?
I heard of people going there on a tourist visa and then applying for a job and a work visa before that runs out and stuff.

>>4934543
The most common job for foreigners there is English teacher

the takahashi tsutomu episode was highly inspirational.

>>4934322
i can't seem to DL the igarashi daisuke episode.
pls send help :_;

>>4934128
I think you are right, there is too much going on. I was making this collage to compare the panel stages, and I think I would rank them in decreasing order of readability B, C, A, D

Anyone have other thoughts / rankings?

>>4933137
this is really good imo

>>4934848
i like B the most

>>4934696
I having issues with S2E3 myself. Aaaaaaaaahhh

heres a cover of a comic ive been starting and restarting for awhile now

>>4934933
and heres a page

>>4934938
>>4934933
looks nice over all.
but i think you should work on the placement of your speech bubbles.
the way they cross the panel borders as well as their size and position seems wholly arbitrary.
try to place them so they add to the composition and flow of the page. and try to be more thoughtful about when they go outside the bounds of a panel. the first speech bubble even has a awkward tangent with the bottom border of the panel.
that one bubble below the crow is awkward as well since it makes the reader skip over the panel on the right.

as for their shapes, try to vary it a bit more. make it so people don't see them and immediately recognize them as circles that were made using the oval/circle tool. that small bubble is almost too round imo.
incorporating them better into the page will probably help with that as well.

>>4934938
anon..this is really nice, has a very nice atmosphere, it reminds me a bit of punpun

>>4934981
thank you anon, i didnt even notice and i agree. Probably best if i hand draw them. I appreciate your feedback.

>>4934988
thats a huge inspiration for this. Im trying to make it less dramatic and depressing though. I want to write a character to be indifferent to everything. I want him to not care about anyone but himself. I want the story kinda like "The Stranger" by Albert Camus.

>>4934995
no problem. you could also just hand draw the bubble tail or something. well, it's up to you.
also one thing i noticed just now is that the bubbles have different line widths, almost as if you used the same circle for all of them and resized it to fit. normally the same type of bubbles are all drawn with the same line width.

Guys when it comes to reference and panneling how much do you use? you use reference for a lot of panels or for certain that you don't know how to attack in the beggining?

>>4935076
explain a little more

>>4935086
If you use human reference for facial structure/poses for every single panel, or if you go more freehand with what you know from memory.

>>4935187
Personally I only switch to ref when I'm struggling with something. It takes too much time to hunt down an appropriate ref for everything.

>>4935207
This, reference for when I am at a wall, but everything else is just memory

>>4934322
ty

>>4934696
>>4934868
weird it downloads for me, I tried deleting s2e3 and re-uploading and it completed instantly which shouldn't be that fast at all. My first time uploading so idk what the problem is.

https://mega.nz/file/4wtg2S7A#DHqo1lv7t5uEoAt9e0TPwGQ9cSKd1ZyXdLO-pD8k_9Y
does this work?

>>4935264
still the same unfortunately.
it gives out a message that says "Error during decryption" (in german in my case so not sure about the translation)

>>4935264
>>4935301

dang. It's giving me an error now too. sorry :(

How do I design a cute anime girl?

>>4934848
Before you lay down screentones you should set your pure black fills first. Tones are there to accentuate your piece, but you need to make sure you generate enough contrast with the use of black first and foremost. Be it in shadows, or with clothing/objects that you render as black. For example, that panel up top where she’s pacing might work better of they were silhouettes.

>>4935594
>>4934848
Also, the ray effect you have on D works great as it draws the eye to the focal point, just make it a little less heavy, and be sure to add more pure white space to let the eye rest and create contrast on all your panels. Especially your figure, since you’re gonna use a greying effect to draw the eyes to her, you should make her stand out by giving her the lest amount to Screentones on the page. My advice, only one tone, and for shadows you didn’t render in black.

>>4934848
Good technical ability but I'm finding the panelling really difficult to actually follow, the flow seems all over the place, the multiple shades of grey aren't helping and the typesetting isn't helping either.

On the first pass, my eye goes from left to right and then down to the rule #3 never wear shoes. But I'm supposed to be reading the left line on the second line. So I start again. On the third line, the pose of the body tries to get me to read from right to left but this seems to be totally incorrect and trying to follow the dialogue is way too difficult.

>>4935301
>>4934868
>>4934341
>>4933666
>>4933599
>>4932814
Okay, s2e3 should work after re-dl/up a new file. I also found 2 more episodes though so check back within next couple days they'll be up. This was fun I glad others get enjoyment out of them, Manben is peak comfy.

>>4935617
https://mega.nz/folder/1lMQwbwL#sz15X1E8g8FUCjeEM9fFlw

>>4935617
>>4935620
goddamnit, the file is under season 2 not the lone video sitting out i haven't deleted yet.

dead thread

>>4936135
Hardly. We hit bump limit every thread.

How do you guys plan to make a living off this?

>>4936220
Ideally get hired by a publisher to make my stuff but in the meanwhile self-publish online. Either I get picked up by a publisher or build an audience willing to donate. Neither are guaranteed but one or the other is fairly likely if my stuff is good and comes out on time.

>>4936220
I don’t think I’ll ever makes living off comics directly but I do think one day when I have the skill, I can live off of passive income donations and work hard with higher priced commissions. I know I’m going to live a poor life but as long as I can get good at creating I’ll be happy

>>4935625
>>4935620
>>4935617
werks now. thanks a ton again.

>>4936220
Get a publishing contract with a big fish.

>>4936220
連載

>>4936322
>連載
Second this.

>>4936220
>>4936222
>>4936228
>>4936315
>>4936322
>>4936332
Worth noting that animation companies that deal in Japanese styles are becoming more common in the west, especially with Netflix deciding that they're willing to throw a ton of money at smaller studios. In a few years the market might be such that we can put these styles to use for character design too.

>>4936220
I don't expect to make any money from it desu, I do it purely for my own enjoyment. I do think more publishing options will become available in the future tho, anime/manga is becoming bigger and bigger and we've seen signs of Shonen Jump branching out internationally as well as Viz creating their own manga.

>>4936351
Oh yeah, posting some character sketches I did at work the other day.

>>4936220
I ultimately want to finish my "graphic novel" and physically publish it, sell some copies at a LCS and maybe some conventions.

I don't expect to ever make real money off comics, but I do wonder if I should try selling illustrations or paintings. I'm terrible at social media or anything to do with marketing, so that limits what I can really do in the art scene.

Is coloring a comic page supposed to feel much more taxing than a grey scale?

>>4936220
i don't

>>4936927
Well it's more work and more thought to be put into it since you have to consider much more than just values

So yes. This is why most manga are not colored and most colored comics are colored by someone other than the artist

>>4936927
Yes
It takes a lot more planning to avoid fucking up composition and muddy colors.

>>4936953
>>4936986
Frig. My client always asks for color and I feel I could do much better in grey scale because I can focus more, but I also don’t want the rate lowered. What a dilemma

>>4936995
There’s some basic concepts, but look into how cinema color codes their scenes, and make sure you do a colorboard as well as a storyboard. But yeah, color should basically double your rate as it’s pretty much double the work (if you wanna do a good job with it). If you’re bot getting paid for your best work though, or you don’t want to use it as practice, feel free to just cut corners and do it the Marvel way.

>>4937016
I do cut corners, there’s far less blending, shading and dynamic colors Compared to my usual workbecause of how much it requires. I might ask them sometime if we could swap it to monochrome and give n example on how the word could turn out, but it seems clients really like color over anything in my experience

>>4937038
Are you doing comic pages or just illustrations? Most people don't consider uncolored illustrations to be "finished", but it's odd for someone to expect colored "manga" style pages

>>4937044
Manga/comic pages, like this format https://gelbooru.com/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=4124904&tags=ahgot the link is nsfw, so basically that with text. Not sure if that style is called something different from comic. I did notice when the client has other work done, the artists are tasked to only draw 1-2 pages while I’m asked to draw 5-7. I may have fucked myself with pricing charging sub 80 per colored page but I had no idea how to go about pricing since it was the first time I was asked if I do comics. I end up finding myself cutting corners with the drawings too because the time spent would be pushed beyond what it’s worth. It’s still earning me experience and some money I suppose and I should be grateful

>>4937076
Yeah it sounds like need to be getting at least 100+ per page for that level of work

Hope everyone's having a good day/week so far.
I hope I can revisit my oneshot story characters with some excerpt scenes in the future.. But for now, here's a drawing I did in manga style (not related to anything)

>>4937348
Nice work anon. Are you the one that did the one with the vampires? The style looks familiar.

>>4937352
Thank you!
Yup, that's me. :)

>>4937366
How long have you been drawing?

why and how do hentai artist have such a clean linework

>>4937445
The Why: because making things that are attractive is difficult and requires clean art so that people get stiff / wet as a reaction. Bad art has less of a chance of getting people aroused.

The How: lots of practice and careful attention paid to fundamentals.

>>4936913
Really like the lines on these, nice stuff anon. Very appealing.

A character I'm fleshing out for an action sequence one-shot. Hoping they seem interesting in some respect.

>>4937386
In general? Since a young age.
Doodling as a kid, and taking it somewhat seriously around middle school (approx. 9th,10th grade)
I went to post-secondary to learn animation, and worked in the animation/game industry since.

I'm a bit of a slow learner, so I try to internalize anything that I attempt to add to my skill set.

I want to get better at fast colored iterations, being proficient at 3D tools to aid my drawing/concepts, and improve on foundational skills like values and perspective, etc...

The stuff that I've accumulated so far has allowed me to get by... But I think under scrutiny, a lot of flaws tend to pop up... ^_^;

But I suppose that's basically the story of any artist.

Let's all do our best to improve!

>>4937552
Oh.... must be nice.....

This is about the best I can do right now

>>4937663
cute

>>4937663
Fuck off /beg/tard

>>4937920
You first. This thread is for improvement on all levels. Go elsewhere if you don't like it.

>>4937958
This thread is for people are taking this seriously and are at least semi component

>>4937982
People of all skill levels have posted in here. Seriousness can exist outside of competency, and seriousness breeds competency in the first place. Go gatekeep some other thread.

>>4932814
https://www.manga-audition.com/sma15-moments-of-crying-smiling-or-love-2021-january-silent-manga-audition/

SMA 15 (Deadline: 27th January, 2021)
THEME: “Moments of CRYING, SMILING or LOVE”
>NO DIALOGUE: tell your story through images alone.
>Manuscript: Reading order from the right to left, monochrome only.
>Number of pages: 5 – 17
>Page file size: Not to exceed 2mb
>Genre: Any genre.
>NO plagiarism; nudity; explicit violence, or material that is likely to cause offence.

>>4937982
Take your negativity elsewhere.

>>4938026
Nice, might enter this one.

>>4934322
thanks anon
are there any really stand out episodes to make sure i get before being bullied by download limits?

>>4938058
I personally like the Junji Ito and Daisuke Igarashi eps. The Inioa Asano and Kengo Hanazawa ones are informative too since they give you an insight into how they incorporate photos into their process. Also I'd rec the Tsutomu Takahashi one since he has a unique way of drawing with lots of energy and ink washes instead of screentones.

>Tsutomu Takahashi
i managed to pick that one to start with. the ink wash part was what made me come ask to make sure i wasn't going to miss out

>>4937445
Practice and doujin works have no real deadline (except I suppose comikets) so they have as much time as they want to draw.

>>4933137
>>4933203
boxers don't really stand like this, like the basic designs tho
if you ever take a self defense class, they tell you to keep your feet apart so that your weight is balanced and stable, so you don't get knocked over and can move quickly and safely. also you get a lot of power from pushing off your back foot into your punches

>>4934122
Inked it here >>4933459

Next panel is robogirl tutorial - tried to reduce the number of panels. I had a diagram but it was too busy, so now there is just a text explanation...

>>4935594
>>4935599
I tried to use more blacks when i did the ink and also push the grayscale to be darker to get more of a distribution of white / black. But i think i crammed the panels too much in the layout. Going to try the white / black on pic related which is only 4 panels

>>4935611
Oh yea, thanks for the annotation. I stared at it so long I just get used to reading in the order I want to. Is there an equivalent of canvas flipping for reading with fresh eyes?

I put more white space and used less panels on this new page, but its now a text mayhem

>>4934122 (You)
Inked it here >>4936170

Next panel is robogirl tutorial - tried to reduce the number of panels. I had a diagram but it was too busy, so now there is just a text explanation...

>>4935594
>>4935599
I tried to use more blacks when i did the ink and also push the grayscale to be darker to get more of a distribution of white / black. But i think i crammed the panels too much in the layout. Going to try the white / black on pic related which is only 4 panels

>>4935611
Oh yea, thanks for the annotation. I stared at it so long I just get used to reading in the order I want to. Is there an equivalent of canvas flipping for reading with fresh eyes?

I put more white space and used less panels on this new page, but its now a text mayhem

>>4938166
Unfortunately no but I took a course in spatial visualisation and this was one of the lecture slides. Apparently people's eyes focussed immediately on the person and not the product that they wanted to sell. I read further into the link that was at the bottom of the lecture and they talk about an F shaped pattern of webpage scanning. I search on google further and I find references to a Z shaped pattern and I just found this which seems like it might be an interesting read for you https://makingcomics.spiltink.org/flow-the-eyelines/

>>4938166
Also I'm not sure you noticed this but your new comic has a flow to the panels even from the thumbnails

>story by robert mckee
geez, a whooping 400 pages? anyone has a, more digestable, book?

>>4938305
Tyler Mowrey’s videos on YT. The book isn’t exactly meant for beginners, but Tyler references it a lot, and provides various film examples. I still suggest you eventually give the whole book a read for a thorough understanding. You’re wanting to write, which means you’re going to be doing a lot of reading. 400 pages is nothing in light of that.

>>4938305
400 pages is nothing. Shouldn’t take you much more than a couple days to read that. How slow do you read?

>>4938058
http://www.naokiurasawa.com/season-0/
https://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x4dqih
these are where I got most of them, besides yt, you can test 'em out before making a commitment. I certainly can't decide which ones stand out as they're all great to me.

>>4938305
Its worth it and to be fair he talks plainly and sometimes tells stories about working in his industry but you can skip over those

>>4938305
Save the cat writes a novel is a good book.

>>4938305
>$1000??? That'll never fit in my wallet.

>>4938584
It will if you get a $1000 bill

>>4938026
neat, will enter.
i'll try to make a bunch of H shorts before december though.

>>4938152
Yoooo thanks man I’ll fix it ASAP
Last question before I leave this thread ,
does this punch have enough oomph?

>>4938794
A better, more engaging camera angle would go a long way towards giving it more. The sense of motion is good, but since we're viewing it from such a flat perspective it loses a lot of the oomph that you probably want. Bad camerawork is bleeding out a good sense of movement.

>>4938794
On top of what >>4938799 says, the posing needs work. Look at Baki's posing for reference since that's pretty much the golden standard.

>>4938794
its amazing anon, don't listen to crabs

>>4938818
We're not trying to crab, or at least I'm not. Unlike most threads on this board, feedback here is generally meant both constructively and sincerely. There's a reason why we keep running out the "lol ngmi" and "go to /beg/" people, we want to keep the critique quality high so that people don't have to worry about people offering shitty takes or trying to screw them over with bad advice.

>>4938818
Nah man they ain’t crabs, I was seeking out criticism and they took time out of their day to prove ice it, and I’m very grateful for that
>>4938801
Baki was a major inspiration tho I never thought too look too much into the poses, will do ASAP anon Godspeed
>>4938799
True I’ll try something with more foreshortening

>>4938838
I would say the posing is a good 75% of why Baki's fights are so good. If there's one thing to take from it, it's the posing.

>>4938845
True just with the poses it can convey so much power and speed

>>4938166
I did another panel sketch, i might redraw ladybug, she was supposed to be small, but ended up with long limbs. Or maybe she will be one of those only-small-when-drawn-quick characters

>>4938185
>https://makingcomics.spiltink.org/flow-the-eyelines/
Holy shit so great, i read it through and tried to incorporate some of the principles. Still have like 18 more pages to improve

>>4938192
You are some kind of panel flow savant. I’ll keep an eye out for the ‘line of action’ in the panels in the future

>>4938889
It's a lot easier to read now good job

>>4938818
please leave

>>4936220
i draw porn to make a living. comics are my passion but i dont mind doing them as a hobby

>>4936220
Webtoons!

>tfw i lost the original csp file
im a retard

>>4939690
very nice page, anon. my only hyper nitpick is the bgs could be better if you found a way to render them without as many harsh hatching lines.

>>4939690
this is really good

>>4939690
This is competent, nice job

The window on the bottom left you might want to rethink, the perfect straight-on viewpoint is making it look like a different panel itself. You've also got a tangent with it and whatever is on the desk just below.

I'm also going to suggest you take another crack at the arms of the person in that same panel, they're a little wonky.

>>4939690
people praising the page lost into the digital aether must be pretty rough

>>4939957
If you can do one good page you can do a thousand, not that big a loss

dead again

>>4941097
/ic/ is a slow board anon. People talk when they want to talk, the thread is far from dead.

>>4941102
This thread basically moves at the pace /ic/ used to move before we got overrun with shitposters and drama queens. In other words, it moves at the pace the board moved at back when people actually fucking drew...

MTL'd a bunch of images. source is
https://twitter.com/innobad1/status/1316001332222930945

1/4

2/3

3/4

>>4941359
whoops, meant 2/4

4/4

>>4941362
>>4941361
>>4941359
>>4941358
cool, thanks

>>>/a/210266160
a bunch of short stories from the author of takagi-san. they're all pretty good.

>>4934543

If you can carve out a living online another hack is to marry a local.

Casual clothes are a lot tougher to design than costumes

>>4941359
I remember this mangaka, she made one the best early 2000s shoujo I have ever read, and probably the last shoujo artist that did sci-fi adventure romance

>>4941984
prop design in general mate, I hate it too. anything that's resemble closer to reality is hard to do because it follow a realistic rule, our brain recognize the mistake immediately, whereas it is more forgiving on stylized designs.

I think I have been overdoing it a bit and might be getting carpal tunnel.. Kind of scaring me since I don't know how much I can still draw a day without fucking up my wrist.
Anyone gone through that? What can I do as treatment? Should I visit a doctor? I been doing some wrist stretching currently.
Sorry for off-topic.

>>4942560
i sometimes have pains, but rarely ever from drawing, usually it's from using the mouse.
but that's because i try to pay attention to my drawing form (and sitting form, elbow above the desk etc.). also i do wrist stretches after every session when i get even minor pains. it usually subsides pretty soon.

>>4942560
Give us more details anon. How long have you had pains? Are they constant, or do things only hurt when you have your wrist / hand in specific positions? Is the pain sharp or dull? Regardless of the answers to the prior questions, the proper response to wrist pain is *always* to stop drawing until it goes away, but more specifics can help us figure out what exactly is going on.

>>4942560
Make sure you get up and do things with your hands during the day besides drawing or using a computer/phone.

I lift weight periodically throughout the day and that seems to "reset" my wrists and fingers

>>4942560
What tablet model do you use? Also stretch everyday before starting to draw and use some program to tell you once in a while to stop and take a rest.

>>4942560
my thing is back pain in the lower back region. i draw for extended sessions of like 3-6 hours. it got so bad i thought it was my kidney and went to an urgent care. it ended up just being strained muscles. getting old sucks

>>4942687
Well not exactly constant, but I feel like my wrist one one hand is not behaving normally, the pain usually comes after drawing for a while or using the wrist too much. Like my hand feels generally weak, it's rough to hold a cell phone when I'm lying in bed with it which is odd to me.

>>4942737
Basically been only doing these two yeah. Might have some weights lying around here somewhere haven't done something in a while. Good idea.

>>4942900
One without screen lying flat on my desk. And I started doing wrist stretches before starting to draw already. But good idea with a rest timer.

>>4943668
Funny enough had that aswell recently. It feels similar to a kidney stone which I had once so I panicked hard. Getting old does really suck.


Anyway didn't expect so many replies sorry for going off topic like this haha. I thought about it and I think ill probably keep drawing to a minimal for now and consult a physician. I don't want to permanently fuck up my wrist and end up not being able to draw anymore. That would be a freaking nightmare.

>>4943841
>One without screen lying flat on my desk. And I started doing wrist stretches before starting to draw already. But good idea with a rest timer.
I drew with a screenless tablet for a good 5 years without any pain, but I had it lain on my lap instead of my desk. Perhaps try that? It's a more relaxed position for the shoulder and wrist.

>>4943841
I was refering to size of the tablet (medium, small, large)

Anyone have any tips for fitting dialogue balloons into panels?

I'm doing traditional art on comic boards and I'm having a hard time arranging my art around the words, I feel like they take up too much space and leave me almost no room for actual drawing.

>>4944244
Ah, medium sized.

>>4943860
Sure will try that out!

>>4933731
This reminds me a bit of made in abyss.

>>4944289
Bubbles come first.

>>4944289
is it possible you have too many panels per page? What do your pages look like?

Also, you don't need to draw a background for most panels, just in the establishing panel and when characters change positions, really.

>>4944289
>>4945319
It's also possible that you have too much dialogue.

>>4944897
MIA mixed with some other stuff I like was the vibe I was going with, yeah.

I just had the great idea of grinding one shots. Maybe ill get better at writing.

>>4945453
Add shadows to your character with a 20pt Screentone.

>>4945453
Looking good mate. And yeah, I think that's the generally accepted method of improving while also potentially getting seen in japan.

>>4945561
I think it looks fine as is.

>>4945732
Yes, but it would look more dramatic if he adds shadows, which, for a scene like the one he is seemingly trying to convey, that’s what you want. You want to heighten the emotions.

>>4938849
kino

>>4945900
This spread opens the volume.

>>4945561
>>4945765
I see what you mean

first time poster on here. I'm usually on the /hyw/ threads on /co/ but heh I'd say I'd like to broaden my perspectives. What do you think of this page?
I like manga, but i'd like to be efficient. Hard to make a comic while having a dayjob

>>4938889
Inked the last page here >>4943607

I’m going for a full spread on this page, i hope it layers well...

>>4946263

Im assuming its read right to left?
Whats the 5th panel represent? There's a human-shaped panel taking up the space. But I dont understand how thats connected to the sequence of events before it.

>>4933959
lovin the perspective

>>4934848
i keep running into your art going like damn this is fuckin great and it always turns out to be you when i reverse search it. i love your stuff man keep going

designing a Wendigo for my webtoon. Dunno how I'm going to keep up with the updates once it starts, its taken me 3 days to learn how to draw a grey wolf skull from imagination.

>>4948085
>Dunno how I'm going to keep up with the updates once it starts, its taken me 3 days to learn how to draw a grey wolf skull from imagination.
Shortcuts. Lots of 'em. Shame is for failures.

>>4947479
Looks like a shooting range target

>>4948505
I thought it was a building or something, personally.

>>4947882
Thanks anon, I try. Very much appreciated.

I'm really jealous of artist who can do 3 points perspective, it makes my head go pee poo all the time. Does anyone know a mangaka who's really good and use 3 points perspective most of the time I need to practice from them.

>>4947162
Inked here >>4948116

I’m horrible at mouths and faces, went for broke and tried to do something challenging for practice

>>4947887
Thanks! I didn’t know i was reverse searchable... technology is magical

I know I promised this like a week ago, but well, better late than never:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZUUzETVu38awOF7mxkcJA3i1GA9Hcs-hQHevYiS9SPs/edit


It's the screenplay for Alice. Idk what draft to call this, it's still slightly unfinished though, just some bits of missing dialogue (perhaps like 20? lines total), or dialogue that's semantic only. It should be done by tomorrow, but I'll put it here for now since this thread moves rather slowly.

It's roughly 19 pages total, which equates around 19ish minutes of screentime based on how screenplays are counted. Please give it a read if you've got time. I really appreciate feedback. I'll keep whatever is said in mind as I go through the manuscript/name, since a screenplay is never 1:1. The fine tuning of the story will now just come down to the execution on the visual front I think.

That should probably be done by this weekend, especially since going through a name is significantly easier than working and reworking and reworking the kinks and details of a story. I just gotta sit down and dedicate a weekend to it.

>>4950221
Also, I just realized. That's an edit link, so you might not be able to view it. Here's a view link:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZUUzETVu38awOF7mxkcJA3i1GA9Hcs-hQHevYiS9SPs/edit?usp=sharing

>>4937663
literal shit on canvas

>>4950299
Don't be rude.

Would you fags be interested in a thread dedicated to drawing movies/tv shows as comics?
I figure it would be a better way to practice the visual aspects, since you have to draw, cut out all the fat screwing up the flow, work out the shots, paneling, etc, make dialogue fit the format and so on without worrying about writing, coming up with scenes, story etc.
Plus, it would probably make great practice for color if you do that, and it might be fun seeing what everyone makes
pic unrelated

>>4950354
Just do that ITT. Those exercises have already been suggested as practice before (by me).

It's something I've done before, and still ocassionally do from time to time (the last two I did were Fight Club's opening scene, and Star Wars EpV opening, iirc). Though I never do more than a manuscript from it, since there's nothing to gain from inking something like that if it's truly meant for practice.

Other great practice especially for stylization is also copying manga pages 1:1, quickly trace over the original with pencil, and then set it beside you as you try to ink and tone it as close as you can to the original. This is a great way to get a good grasp on what pen sizes you should be using, what tones, how, as well as adopt certain inking techniques from pros.

>>4950299
why are you like this

>>4937663
please post a bigger image, I can’t quite make out all the subtle chicken scratching

Is anyone else here doing traditional art, or is everyone digital?

>>4950550
I’ve been doing the layout and sketch digitally, then inking trad, and going back and adding the gray scale and screen tones digitally

I don’t know how you could ever do the whole thing trad, the panel placement and planning is insane, placing text boxes, and screen tones would be impossible

>>4947479
it's read left to right, and yeah it's a huge ass shooting range for huge mech guns.
It's out of context but basically, some people are overseeing the pilot testing a new weapon.

>>4945319
>Also, you don't need to draw a background for most panels, just in the establishing panel and when characters change positions
only overworked weekly manga artists do that shit

>>4950651
>only non-autistic chad do that

>>4933137
As others have noted, there's absolutely no power or dynamism in these poses, no emotion in the faces. I don't sense any tension, it's as if they aren't actually about to fight.

What are the skills that are more important to manga artists/authors? We're not gonna be drawing dudes in spandex which muscles can be seen through their clothes, so in (my) opinion an extensive knowledge of anatomy is not as important as colthing folds, drappery, page composition or other things.

What do you guys think?

>>4950801
recently i got this idea that the japanese focus more on the characters internal ongoings than the objective things we see on the page.
even when it comes to paneling, they seem to value getting across the characters emotions OVER compositions and panel arrangements. not saying that they aren't important, just that the former has a higher priority.

pic related is quoted from araki's book.

>>4950609
That's how it's been done for decades, I personally can't see going back and forth between computer and real tools on the same page, I even letter traditionally

>>4950651
the backgrounds can get in the way of the story sometimes. (examples could be character reaction shots) More detail isn't always better.

>>4932815
I don't see any black and white on these sites. I sure do see lots of brown though.

>>4950801
That all just depends on what genre you're doing. Obviously for a violence-centered story you're going to want some good anatomy knowledge and skills in posing and movement.

But if you're trying to draw some navel-gazing introspective autobiography about how hard it is to be an incel, you'll want to lean more into scene composition and facial expression

If you want to make a comic like your favorite Final Fantasy then you better get to work on architecture, landscapes and perspective for that fantasy adventure feel

>>4950801
Definitely learn to write stories. Especially basic scene design: Action -> Twist -> Reaction

>>4950801
Drapery is definitely an underlooked one. Heavily recommend everyone hoard clothing references and practice their drapery and costume design because goddamn is it a horrible feeling to get to designing characters and finding your creativity stops at "white t-shirt and jeans".

>>4950801
I think you should always learn backgrounds, regardless of what you're making. The vast majority of amateur / entry-level artists are bad at environments, so having good backgrounds can be a great way to make your manga stand out from the rest, especially if you can do them quickly and fill your manga with them and / or have a long-enough update schedule that you can fit them in.

practicing inking, I'm being incredibly picky about my brush I really hate it. I just want to settle down in a comfortzone instead of searching for kind of style to go for.
and I dont know enough about value to confidently ink anything.

>>4950823
in my opinion, manga tend to have more emphasis on the passage of time in their paneling. It's like a segment of film rolls. Wheares comic focus of the presentation of the moment. Mostly spectacle in every panels. Not to say manga doesnt have it, just that manga only save spectacle for when it is needed.
I think European comic lands somewhere middle but is closer to American's. It fluctuate between the two.

>>4952108
>>4950801
also an example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2bKhABlUzU

>>4952102
inking brushes normally don't change values anon. also what's with the heavy pixellation? in terms of HOW you inked it it seems good to me.

but in terms of the drawing itself, the hand is wack and she is staring too far into the distance.

>>4952102
Those values seem fine. What's the issue exactly? Just lack of confidence? You should already know that's solved by doing. Also as the other guy points out it looks like you're drawing too small so you get pixelation. Draw bigger to avoid that.

>>4952110
>>4952108
very, very interesting video.
i've never thought about it this way but in hindsight i can absolutely relate to this idea of the dialogue and images having their own pace.

but i still think it has to do with showing the characters emotions rather than it being for the sake of passage of time. the emphasis is on the characters imo.

>>4952121
Yeah i drew it small on purpose, i saw a web manga with similar style so i was trying to mimic it. It turns out drawing small was the only way to get those tiny grains, i dont know how to get similar result in larger resolution, any help would be appreciated.

>>4952130
Yes i mean passage of time as an additional element, not to downplay character emotion..

>>4952147
If it was intentional then you're fine. I've done the same thing before, just wasn't sure if you meant to do it.

>>4952148
EmOtIonS aRe ImPorTAnt, yoU Got tHat??!

>>4950221
I've just read through it all and ill just write some thoughts down. I don't know all too much about writing but I read a lot of manga and books so ill give you a readers impression I suppose.

First off, it's easy to imagine what's going on in the scene from the way you wrote it down. I can tell the characters emotions and why they act like they do. While I do lack any kind of context at the end of it I had a solid grasp on the character of Alice and Oz.
The story was interesting in itself, but what bothered me a little is that everything kept stressing that Alice is just a little girl, even the shadows later on. This feels kind of odd to come from everyone around her in this amount, but that's just my personal opinion.
Overall I would like to read it as a manga for some visuals aswell. Keep it up!

>>4952250
>mfw I immediately thought that I was reading about Pandora Hearts from the context of this post because anon's work had a little girl called Alice and a character called Oz in it

>>4952250
I also feel the overstressing of the fact that she's just a little girl might be overdone, I still think there's some fine tuning to be done with this, but part of what I wanted to accomplish was to highlight her own insecurities more than anything. Since the story is about her ultimately overcoming herself.

Funny enough, I didn't set out to write it like this from the start, but the pilot feels almost like a prequel to where the actual story will likely kick off, as the Alice you'll encounter in that is significantly more confident and capable (she'll still have her deep seeded insecurities and flaws, but she'll no longer be wearing those on her sleeve), especially since she'll be seen through the eyes to the male protag. It's why I dialed her age back from the intended 15, to just 13 for this story. It just felt more suitable.

Anyway, duly noted on what you mentioned. Thanks a bunch. It's one of those things that's difficult to fine-tune without feedback when writing, as it can be hard to tell just how well a reader might try to grasp what you're trying to convey thematically. I've often erred on the side of being too suble before, so it's good to know I can dial it back some. Thanks for your input, it's really helpful.

>>4952291
>mfw just learning now that there's a manga out there that has a character named Alice and a character named Oz.
And here I thought I was being clever. I shouldn't surprised, both stories are incredibly popular.

>>4952110
Really good video, it's not only in Urasawa's work but manga in general it tends to be 1 or 2 dialogue balloons in panels, which gives a sense of motion while you are reading instead of spending a lot of time and feeling "stuck" while reading one panel. (i've seen that it's quite common in american comics to have multiple back and forth in every panel)

The whole action-reaction thing i think has to do with the concept of "Ma", which is something in the core of japanese comics, here's a video in case you haven't heard about it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXhwRVg3VVg

>>4952312
I've gotten that notion quite early on, so yeah don't worry.
Also another thing I forgot to mention earlier:
Bernhardt requested help from oz to take down the creature right? Now when he sees alice he is disappointed and decides to take matters into his own hand. I assume oz was his last hope in getting anyone to take it down and realizing alice "cant do it" he thinks he has to go and kill it by himself, right? Now he is aware of the danger and thinks he can't kill it alone, thats why he reached out for help in the first place.
Maybe make it a little clearer that he sees no other option than taking it down by himself at this point. Not too big of an issue at all, I guess you can also assume it just by the way he behaves, but just something that I was thinking about.
Because otherwise Bernhardt looks kind of suicidal right?

>>4952521
One of the reasons for this is the artist and the writer for American comics are two different people.

Writers are generally not visual, they are verbal, so when it comes time for a fight scene they just put in the script [insert fight scene here] for the artist and continue with the verbose dialogue

For manga, the writer and artist being the same person makes it more likely they will understand of the flow of action and visual language does not need to be interrupted by words

>>4952612
The artists and writers are different people for many Manga as well, so I think this is more a case of some comics writers just being hacks or some artists shitting up the layout. If you look at good writer-artist teams like Kurt Busiek and Alex Ross, you'll see their pages don't really have this problem.

>>4952644
I don't know of any writer/artist teams in manga besides Murata's remake of OPM

>>4952747
A lot of popular mangas originated as light novels.

>>4952747
A very Obvious one, Death Note and Bakuman.
But this is a once in a blue moon pair because the writer and the artist just happened to be so in sync with each other to the core.
Even in the west, I rarely enjoy anything that has writer and artist combo.

>>4952747
the death note duo

Is there a handguide that teach how to ink drapery?

best paper for drawing comic/manga?

>>4952747
Act Age is.

Well, was.

Doctor Stone is as well.

>>4952815
Bristol board

You know what, forget being obsessed over nitpicking over anatomically correct, I dont have time for this shit, I'll just draw enough to have the composition in place. I'll practice paneling and actually start on background for manga, I can work on the detail after. Fuck it, if the reader can read some shitty third rate web comic then they can tolerate my anatomy a little bit.

>>4952924
NGMI

>>4953001
fuck anatomy fags

>>4953028
fuck you NGMI bitch, if I see third world dogshit fisher price anatomy I'm swiping left on your comic

>>4946263
this is evangelion

>>4952924
Anatomy is so fun though.

>>4953044
Yeah I noticed that too.

The dude in the middle panel looks like he was getting ready to tell a joke and the guy he was talking to just ignored him to say "fire"

>>4952815
Depends, each has its own paper made for the job

>>4953035
NGMI

>>4953035
what's the point of being in this general if all you do is anatomy? just go do illustration.

>>4952924
archive searched your pic and your posts are all really fucking bad

>>4952747
There's heaps. Hokuto no Ken was written by Buronson and illustrated by Tetsuo Hara.

>>4953128
You're one of those people. You really are obsessed with 4chan you know that. Policing about 4chan posts while being on this site. Anyway I made my point clear, and trying to control a thread doesn't really do anything good, but prove that you're self-imposing a law here.

>>4951015
i didn't say draw only backgrounds retard

>>4952924
Just make it very stylized. Anatomy is not important for manga/comics. What's important most of all is actually story. The art only needs to be good enough to express and communicate action. Some examples of manga that give zero fucks about anatomy off the top of my head, outside of the obvious ONE, would be Lucky Star, the one about the little girls in the post apocalyptic world, P&SwG, and even stuff like Shaman King to a lesser extent. One Piece too. Dragonball before Z as well. Perspective and Composition are infinitely more important. Focus on those instead.

>>4953134
>>4952747
Death Note as well. And Shokugeki no Souma.

>>4953035
>>4953128
Can you please take this somewhere else? It doesn’t belong here.

>>4952580
>Because otherwise Bernhardt looks kind of suicidal right?
Oh, he’s 100% suicidal, glad you picked up on that. Oz was kinda his last hope, but he’s also surrendered himself to his fate, he just wants to get revenge by killing that thing. Alice kinda restores hope in him by the end.

Bored and drew this

Anyone have a link for these brushes?

Kyoto int manga contest winners announced. https://twitter.com/MediBangPaint_e/status/1319522814399967233?s=19

does anyone know the setting to get the "marker dot" look at the end of a brush in CSP, i dont know how else to explain it

>>4955031
not sure what you mean, but maybe with a pen that has pen pressure set to velocity and draw quick lines with them?

More of the Tsugumomo doujin, tried to keep the panels more interesting
The clothes come off on the next page, these costumes are really hard to draw
>>4950009
>Inked here
Man that's a crazy page, love your stuff

>>4954050
I'm better than all of them

>>4955275
dunning kruger

do you guys ink with AA on your brush or not

>>4955294
i'm on the fence. normally you shouldn't use AA if it's for print.
but as far as digital is concerned i'm just not sure. it just looks so jarring without AA, i can't fully get used to it.
just talking about when you zoom in, outside of that it's not that noticable though.

>>4955275
said the one who didn't submit

>>4950009
Inked here >>4953949 and added flashy colors and such

Next page, going to try one of those classy split face panels. I think I’ll just fuck with the right side text later

>>4955262
Thanks man!

Probably got asked a thousand times, but which brush in CSP best emulates manga inking pen?
Recommendations of any other manga-oriented brushes are welcome.

>>4955709
Depends on what you are looking for.

Yotti and mili pen emulate manga pens pretty neat. Textured pen emulates brushes greatly, but it's harder to use, it's the one boichi uses also.

>>4952846]
>act age
>was
aww man

>>4934848
TableGuy I ain’t gonna’ simp for you but your progress pic and seeing how effort over years can yield steady progress into decent skill has made me go out and buy a sketchbook and I’m filling it up for October and hopefully will get better in several years too.

It takes too long for me to come up with a plot so I think I'll do some fan comic as practice for scene writing and post it here for crit. But it feels so embarrassing.

>>4955918
Accept that your first 5-10 stories are gonna suck dick and just get to writing. You won’t improve at it of you don’t write. Writing doesn’t “come to you” it’s a skill you develop just like art.

Here’s a simple way to get started:
1) think of a character
2) what do they want?
3) what gets in their way?

Boom, you’ve got a plot. Worry about more complex storytelling nuances later, you’re a beginner, keep it simple and stick to the fundamentals.

>>4955929
so write bad stories now so that you can learn to write good stories later?

>>4955929
What if I just spend a day writing the 5-10 bad stories, will I be able to create good stories tomorrow?

>>4955968
>>4955974
It's literally like drawing(or any skill ever) bro

>>4955999
This.

C'mon dude, think logically. If you draw 10 shitty doodles you put zero effort into, you're not going to magically get better at drawing.

If you make 10 drawings, each one pouring 100% effort into them, asking feedback, LISTENING to feedback, analyzing your work, redoing it, redoing, redoing it, and learning from your mistakes, then you'll improve.

Writing isn't sitting down and putting down what you see in your head for a first draft. 99% of writing is actually editing. The rewrites. So, when you do that 5-10 times, you'll improve, and you'll have a better natural instinct for what a good story should be like.

>>4956005
>>4955968
>>4955929
>>4955974
Drawing and writing are very different. You've got to read a LOT of stories and to analyse what makes them good whereas drawing focusses a lot harder on grinding than it does looking at everyone else's artwork for hours (in a way that isn't master studying). You probably want to read much, much more than what you are writing both for ideas and to learn the execution. You also want to learn all the tropes in your genre and make sure that you aren't going to be boring people with the nth retread of a story. You want to know exactly what makes people feel things and how to build up the plot and conflict.

Story structure is also different depending on the length of the piece and the form of it. Rather than focussing on character motivations to begin with, I often find it much easier to think about what's happening at the end first and work your way back through character motivations. Not having an end = not having a story.

>>4956200
I fundamentally disagree with you on a number of things my dude...


>Drawing and writing are very different.
Not as much as you might think. They're both creative fields and they both surrender themselves to the fundamentals. Getting better at either one basically requires the exact same process: Study > Application > Self-Analysis > Reflection > Practice

> You've got to read a LOT of stories and to analyse what makes them good whereas drawing focusses a lot harder on grinding than it does looking at everyone else's artwork for hours
Reading a lot isn't going to make you a better writer just the same as downloading dozens of images from pixiv or whatever isn't going to make you a better artist. You wanna get better at drawing? You gotta draw. You wanna get better at writing? You gotta write. The only way to internalize the fundamental elements of a creative field is through constant practice.

>both for ideas
Ideas are cheap, and in my experience, the quality of my ideas has steadily improved the more I improved at the execution.

>and to learn the execution.
As I said already, like art, the fundamentals of storytelling are pretty simple to understand, it's the application that's difficult and requires lots of practice.

>You also want to learn all the tropes in your genre and make sure that you aren't going to be boring people with the nth retread of a story
Absolutely wrong in every regard. Sometimes people tune into a story, in order to be delivered a promise. Genre pieces thrive on this. They don't want a clever subversion, they just want the goods. Moreover, learning the tropes is unnecessary, you'll often dilute yourself even more if you stress too much over that. Some knowledge on the genre is ofc useful, but a story is a story at a fundamental level, regardless of genre.

cont...

>You want to know exactly what makes people feel things
Build up, and pay off. Just like a joke. Writing stories and writing jokes aren't too different from each other.

>how to build up the plot and conflict.
This the fundamentals of storytelling. It's covered in several books in the OP, like Robert McKee's book. Again, learning it is simple, it's the execution that matters, and only way you'll improve is through repeated and constant practice.

>Story structure is also different depending on the length of the piece and the form of it.
I fundamentally disagree with this, and it's what prompted me to reply in the first place.

Absoultely not. Pic related, and the KiShoTenKetsu both work at a whole narrative level, and a scene level. Could be a short story that's only 3 pages, could be an entire series of books stemming multiple arcs. The fundamentals are the fundamentals.

From the words or Aaron Sorkin himself, one of the best writers in film alive right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-ETDTXUnB0&ab_channel=WIRED

Intention and Obstacle, the single most important components to a story. Ending is totally irrelevant. The reader isn't so much there for the grand finale, as they are for the entire journey. A series of set ups and pay off all strung together toward a singular objective.

(final)


And the reason why WANT is so important, is not only because that creates a character-driven narrative, which is how a story SHOULD be written unless you want cardboard cutouts for characters, but also because wanting something is an emotion basically any human being can identity. Our entire lives and decisions are driven by wants. When a character wants something, and they set out to do it, their struggle becomes that much more relatable. The obstacle, becomes that much more identifiable. And the obstacle could even be yourself, should you choose to write a story for example, about a NEET who WANTS to fix his life, but his own self-defeatism stands in his way. Who knows how a story like that could end. Could end in success, could end in failure. But simply framing it as that. Intention and Obstacle, instantly makes the pitch that much more interesting.

>>4956200
>I often find it much easier to think about what's happening at the end first and work your way back through character motivations. Not having an end = not having a story.

One more bit I wanna add as this left me thinking and perhaps what I'm about to say might help you see things in a new way.

To me, storytelling isn't about getting to the end. I never start with the end, and often, I never have a clear ending in mind. This is also the mindset many successful screenwriters have. Tarantino being a good example. Storytelling is exploration. You explore the world, the characters, and so on... as you write. You discover who these people are. What their struggles are. How they think, etc...

Let it come from there. Let your characters tell you their story, put them into situations that challenge them, and work out what happens. Surprise yourself. Don't try to control it.

I know this might be disappointing to hear from the perspective of someone who's always been on the reader side of things, but it's the truth about story. A lot of authors, don't have a clear ending mapped out. They write themselves toward a conclusion, letting their characters do the work. Then, once they've gotten there, they go back and rewrite. In the case of a series, you don't really have that luxury. Which is all the more reason for why it's important to develop the foundational skills of storytelling, as what applies to micro, also applies to macro. The more you've internalized these concepts, the more you'll be able to proceed with confidence.

Here's that Tarantino quote btw:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MGGMmXeS6I&ab_channel=TylerMowery

>>4956361
I really like everything you wrote, but I never could understand Dan Harmon's story circle. It's just unintuitive and clumsy. A much more flexible way to think of a story really is to break it up into 3 parts, action, twist, reaction. That's really all you need, those 3 steps, driven by a character and their desires. The steps of "comfort zone", "pay a price", and "return to comfort" don't happen in every story. Having those steps also don't allow the story structure to be fractal, working at both the large narrative scale and the scene-level.

>>4956443
Pay the price does, but it's not often THAT dramatic, it could be either a setback, a reversal of situation, or what have you. Comfort zone also doesn't literally mean "they're in comfort" it just means "establishing what "normal" is for your character at this current point in time before diving in. And even then, yeah it can be cut out. Because the point is that it's meant to be a flexible guideline, not a rulebook. The ones I personally find most useful however is "get what they want" and "pay the price" using them back to back, helps build tension in a story rather well. Especially since in a story, a character only has two options, they either get what they want, or they don't and are forced to try again. Also note that this doesn't have to relate to their overall narrative want, but rather their more immediate one.

Take a lot at a bunch of stories, and you'l ALWAYS see this technique employed:

Star Wars:
>They rescue the princess, BUT they're being tracked by the Empire.
LotR
>They get past the ruins of Moria, BUT Gandalf is left behind/dies.
etc...

I'm too lazy to think of more atm, but it's a common technique as again, it builds tension.

Do you guys finish sketching all the pages before inking or do you do them in bunches?

>>4956483
I sketch them all.

>>4956483
Lately i've been going straight to the inks, the accidents give better results than if i focus solely on having inks that matches the sketch.

I work in digital btw, in trad it would be different.

>>4956360
i wonder how do you get better at writing/page composition without going with the whole process of character design, inking pages, etc. Do you write just names and let them be just that?

>>4956483
I sketch about 10 or so first, then ink them, then sketch the next 10

anyone here have any suggestions for something like this? >>4956673

>>4955822
Boichi was who I had in mind when I asked, thanks!

>>4956783
Not him but yes I highly recommend making names a lot. Bit of an anecdote but it's been almost 7 years since I started trying to make comics and I've had long lulls where I didn't finish anything and feeling really bad about it, but the whole time I didn't stop having ideas, piecing those ideas together then drawing storyboards from those ideas. Every time I intended to finish them but bailed out so it never really felt like I was grinding, but looking back I guess it was essentially constant practice for writing/storyboarding.
Point being, even if you don't actually finish anything you should still take ideas, try to shape them into something workable then storyboard it as far as it'll go. That should iron out the initial "damn how the hell does anyone actually do this?" kinks in the process so you have more time to worry about the actual finished work.

https://medibang.com/book/8w2008300825468250016614576/

I'm gonna dump the 20 pages of the comic i made for the tezuka competition if thats ok

its unfinished but i was curious as to yalls opinions on what i had done lol

[cover/20]

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>>4957136

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i lied its actually only 19 pages lol

[19/19]

FIN ?

>>4957165
anon i honestly think you shuld work on your lettering and page composition, in some pages there is too much dialog and instead of being quick the reader can feel stuck while being so much time in one panel.

Find out some scanaltions and see how do they do the editing for their pages.

>>4957170
Mmmmm, work on your storytelling. Her co-pilot died and she's reacting that way? She's stranded on an unknown wasteland of a planet and she's being all goofy about it? Idk, and the black-hole and buff rabbit really felt like it came out of left field.

I recommend reading Robert McKee's book and practicing writing short stories first.

>>4957231
>>4957223


i know thanks for the advice

>>4957231

>Robert Mckees book

k im reading it

>>4957389

>>4957389
>>4957418
Probably the chapters "substance of story" and "scene design" are most important and immediately relevant to you

>>4957418
How old are you anon

shit, almost forgot. ended up all the way on page 10 this time.

new thread:

>>4957859
>>4957859
>>4957859
>>4957859
>>4957859