/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>4930737
Its probably a screentone or a photo thats been converted into lineart. The guy that makes chainsaw man has better things to do than tracing a photo or constructing a background like that from scratch. In the time it would take him to do this shit he could be killing off another popular character.

>>4930737
It's because all mangakas are soulless hacks that can only trace over photos and 3d models. If you want actually good comics artists I recommend looking at the american market

>>4930754
Lmao

>>4930754
Kek

fundies. if you need fundies you can download them from sketchup.com

>>4930754
Hahahahhaahaha

>>4930754
Is that supposed to be a woman?

>>4930781
No its a tranny. I can see how you would be confused by it.

>>4930737
loomis

>>4930737
>type in "google earth" in your search bar
>click a big city like manhaten
>click 3D view unrestricted
>blow your brains out because you didn't realize a tool like this exists before today

>he doesnt know
https://youtube.com/watch?v=2IOdDXplVjM

>>4930737
Just draw

>>4930737
Talent

>>4930737
hard round brush

>>4930737
Its a photo that's been converted and it was most likely done by assistants. Or maybe a 3d model but I doubt it.

You can see it being done here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogFA5qVp-SQ

>>4930737
Asian Jeans

>>4932208
Those cities are super easy to make.
In a 3D program
1) You can just download a model or use heightmaps/stencils to generate it in a few minutes
2) There are addons to procedurally generated it
Once you have the model done you can just render it as lineart.
CSP has a filter that auto converts photos into lineart.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=-bj5WPu1SGQ
CSP can also extract lineart from models as well as photographs. However be warned that the program will explode even on tiny polycounts so you're better off doing it in your 3d program or renderer. Especially because CSP's lighting system sucks

>>4930737
1. manga artists hire assistants to help with backgrounds, you can usually tell by the art style difference that it's done by an assistant who practically has all day to do backgrounds.

2. sometimes backgrounds are traced or mocked in from sources they have rights to save massive amounts of work and time. this is what artist like Inio Asano do to create immersive realistic settings. at the very least they will use references regularly unless they have 20 years experience and just know what a city looks like from repeat exposure and study.

3. the perception of detail can be very deceiving. take for instance the bottom panel where a solid half of those buildings are just rough box shapes. you can draw those in a lot quicker than you'd assume but the illusion of detail makes you feel like it's overwhelming. same with the top panel. the farther back it goes the more you'll see its just quick lines and dots and at some point in the top left corner just screen tone being scraped off quickly.

commit to using references. research the architecture and understand why it's built the way it is. like how buildings roofs are covered in air vents because there isn't space anywhere else and hot air rises so it's the best place for them to be. this will ingrain it in your mind so you remember off hand. make conceptual notes for future projects too. remember that detail is all just taking your time. you may want to draw really fast and not spend all day on a single panel but reality isn't that forgiving. otherwise manga artists wouldn't need assistants. also remember to learn perspective. I think that's obvious but if you're going to be drawing an entire cityscape basic understanding of how perspective work's is 101 shit.

>>4930737
Want to see genius art? Read Akira.

>>4930737
Sketch up a 3D model of a city
Pencil effect to wash out the blocks
Trace over while adding the windows, etc with the help of assistance

You’re welcome

Is it just me, or does this stuff always feel incredibly soulless?

>>4932336
it's just you

no rules, just tools

>>4932298
Even easier.
Get screentone of city. Paste it.

Or:
Get photo of city. Run it through CSP filter to make your own city screentone. Done.

>>4930754
>american
>capeshit

>>4930754
>>4932410
But wait, there're more
Imagine calling jap "muh hack" and posting fucking marvel lmao

>>4930737
99% of manga backgrounds are cut and paste from premade tones (old school always had the same schools and trees because common and came in toner packs) or convert to lineart. Buildings are rarely ever drawn by manga artists. Even murata doesnt draw his bgs. Oh great on bakemonogatari manga is almost entriely computer made - 3d models drawn over and all assets are cut and paste. Any girl with headphones and headphones are not drawn. 3d model pasted and rotated. All cars and motorcycles are from images in all manga. Most rocks and trees are clip paint assets or a brush. Manga is a joke that idiots cant even tell is barely drawn these days and they praise how great they are.

>>4932463
You ever try to make a manga? We got a thread for it. Go on anon. Show us what you can do. If it’s that easy, surely you’ll be raking in millions in no time at all.

>>4930737
a team of talented people working hard, manga is not made only by 1 person.

>>4930753
This. Most likely made in csp

>>4932410
>>4932435
You're not pretending are you? Did you even look at the picture?

>H-how

Why do people write like this?

>>4932463
There are modern hacks, but old-school artists did the shit by hand

>>4932563
>old school artist"s assistants did this by hand

>>4932502
It seems easy enough that any /int/ who can draw the human figure and trace can make it

>>4932570
That's still someone doing it by hand, smoothbrain

>>4932570
Regarding Akira, one of those assistants was Satoshi Kon.

>>4932585
>>4932463
Post your work

hmmm

>>4932585
>seems
No no... shows us. Get down to the nitty gritty of it, hands on, and show us how easy it is.

can somebody post a background with such immense complexity and details like in the op that have been drawn with no tracing?

>>4933314
Read Akira lol. Otomo is an actual madman. There are stories of him hanging vanishing point threads across rooms, he even has an architecture degree iirc.


He drew 19 pages of the Akira manga a week(with only 1 or 2 assistants) while running the Akira movie production and assisting with animation here and there.

>>4933348
>He drew 19 pages of the Akira manga a week
Truly a genius of his field, did he left any guides/tutorials on how he manages to draw such detailed images this fast, if I tried probably it will take me a couple of weeks to draw only one panel with this much detail

>>4930737
Long answer: Draw a bunch of boxes and squares around roads and bridges then detail based off photo ref.

Short answer: Yeah, trace. Or just filter a photo.

>>4930753
>The guy that makes chainsaw man has better things to do than tracing a photo or constructing a background like that from scratch
That would be why he (and 90+% of professional mangaka) hires assistants to do it for him.

>>4933314

>>4933348
>>4933560
Pretty much anyone with a background in architecture lol.

>>4932802
Seriously? That's cool as fuck.

I still weep internally for his passing. What a loss for the world.

>>4932570
Fuck off retard, Otomo did almost all of Akira by himself.

>>4932557
Well certainly the artist in the captain marvel pic isn't the same artist as mine (he isn't even american)
But you/he called all japs hack and recommended me actually good things like "American comic/artist", then posted Marvel as an example
I thought the opinion were retarded so i responded by posting Greg Land, who was an American comic book artist worked for Marvel, with countless proofs of his tracings.

>>4933314
you can even watch him do them on his channel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwTPDLiA3ds vid not quite related.

Buildings look easy to fake, what about art like this? Assistants doesn't begin to cover it, and it's all or nearly all hand drawn.
https://www.exprofundis.com/the-art-of-berserk/

>>4933747
A tl;dr for bakas.
>When is photobashing used?
When there are a fuckload of people.
When you need a lot of detail for example patterns on the shirt, a lot of photo detail for example metal texture.
>When is 3D easier?
When you need a LOT of complex realistic lights and shadows and fabric weight involved and a lot of fabric wrinkles in maybe multiple different textures and you also need it realistic. Don't forget the sculpting takes for fucking ever.
When there is a LOT OF ARCHITECTURE especially in images where the pose of the people are relatively easy to pose.
When there is perspective out of the ass and not a lot of references, for example you need to draw the feet of your character in fisheye perspective when fighting like 5 other people, figuring out how this scene works is easier
Whenever you need highly mechanical drawings and when you can reuse backgrounds (for example buildings)
>When is 2D easier?
Anything manga related in general because the lineart and colour tends to be flat.
When you are only drawing the bust or the face of the character
Whenever there are a lot of references 2D is almost always easier. For example, I can draw some random person's instagram photo of the person standing in the leaves of the tree and it will be easier because I already have a direct reference or there are a lot of people taking those kinds of photos.
Don't forget that 3D takes absolute fuckloads of time to setup.

The more you look at these kinds of images and workflows, the easier it will be to figure out the best way to reverse engineer in your head.

Now Miura often doesn't have good perspective and figures are often a bit wonky but also quite distorted, detailed and soulful. He's better off imitated in 2D and not in 3D.

>>4933747
>>4933829
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't all (or most) of those top spreads drawn after the release schedule slowed down? He had much more time to draw those spreads than most mangaka get, so is kind of a poor example. The art was still very good and quite clearly done the hard way, but what springs to mind as an example of that is the spreads in the Conviction arc rather than the Millenium Falcon/Boat arc.
Also, I doubt the the escher room or the castle top were traced or 3d modeled or anything. For one thing, it's obviously a reference to Escher's drawing and two the actual shapes are really quite simple without really any tricky perspective or unusual detail or anything. It's just some well rendered shapes. Much easier than filling details in a cityscape, even ignoring the part where he doesn't really have a tight deadline for a lot of those examples.

>>4933873
They're obviously predigital drawings but if you want to construct one of those in modern times, what I'm saying is that my immediate thought is to use 3D for them if you didn't actually have a reference like the Escher. And I'm explaining in terms of timeframe why you would use things over others. Because in many situations 3D will take much longer than 2D. Additionally in the modern world, we have every reference at our fingertips although whether or not you want to actually use those references is a question (because of how many artists these days get called out on stealing other people's ideas) which isn't a problem with 3D.

Anyway, I digress. Anyway, Miura is one of those artists who just renders everything and isn't obsessed with realism and realistic perspective and a whole host of other things. He focuses hard on the stylisation. So that makes him very bad to mimic with 3D.

That being said, the most interesting take away I've found in relation to art history is that even in the pre 3d modelling eras artists would make sculpts in order to inform their drawings. Even way back in the 1500s with Tintoretto. However, he's obviously a realistic painter and since we're only dealing with whites and blacks here we don't need SO MUCH lighting/colour REFERENCE that we must sculpt everything. So it's pretty much only useful on architecture or really extreme poses but as many people have pointed out over the history of /ic/ 3D figures are super stiff unless they are constructed over so if you're spending that much time reworking the pose you might not want to use 3D.

And like you said, the perspective in this particular Escher isn't too extreme, unlike the insanely detailed cities, so it's feasible to construct by hand. It might be actually faster to construct it by hand as opposed to 3D -- especially as in Miura's case he's actually gone and simplified it again (and a bunch of it is hidden behind the figures which make such things easier).

>>4930737
Genetics and childhood-bred work ethic, just like any good artist. Now get back in the bucket with the rest of us dumb faggot

>>4933873
(cont)
In any case, I think thinking about the workflow improves us as artists. Thinking about how to dissect a really difficult work down to the point that it is achievable, helps to determine what skills we should focus on. Thinking about how many times I'm going to be drawing a city an entire year or something versus whether or not I should focus on character skills. Because no one can be a master of all these skills. There's just so many areas, 3D in itself has rigging, animation, sculpting, UV retopo etc... And 2Dwise there's perspectives, values, lighting, anatomy, gestures, etc.

The level that we need is different for everyone. For example, 99% of the time you can probably just freehand the perspective and sketch it out and it doesn't have to be 99.95% accurate. You might not even need 3D for that. 3D might even be a waste of time. But if you're constantly producing the same background etc... Then that seems to be where 3D has its advantage.

>>4933710
Your inability to detect sarcasm is astounding. The joke flew over your head so much, that it went straight into space.