/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>4915198
Honestly bro after 2 years if you still can't make a decent mannequin your NGMI. Cut your losses and spend your time better. No shame in quitting art, it really isn't for everyone.
Or, try drawing something that isn't people. Maybe you'll enjoy landscapes, or industrial design. Step out of your comfort zone.
Its really up to you.

>>4915198
A couple of the these are good aside from the faces but I think you're simplifying things too much too early anon, try drawing skinless muscle humans and then maybe you'll begin to get it

>>4915203
i asked what i was doing wrong. what am i doing wrong?

>>4915205
see what does that mean, exactly? do i draw ALL the muscles? do i only draw major muscles? do i simplify the muscles into their basic forms or do i draw them precisely how they should look?

>>4915212
skinless human means all of it anon every single muscle, also I feel like some of your major issues are that you make the collar bones far too defined, shoulders always seem to be hiked up, and for a female they're quite broad

>>4915198
I think these are gorgeous bodies. But butter faces. You need to focus on less is more in some areas and more detail in others areas that need it. You don't need to draw soft forms so thick. A thin line that doesn't meet works as a suggestion of form. For example we don't need to see the collar bone connect all the way to the shoulder. But we do need to see all her toes and detailed fingers. You don't need to draw the entire nose. On a woman's face, light shading where the nose meets the bridge of the nose will soften that witches nose. Add soul in the eyes with a reflective spot. It doesn't matter how small your drawing is, always add that shine to instantly make the eyes pop. Also unless you have a thing for hot jews, please move the tip of the nose back. Please.

>>4915217
could that literally be the only major problem? will doing those things finally fix the problem?

in the ones with construction the boxes aren't even straight wtf dude

>>4915224
It's not the only major problem, and I don't agree that it's the biggest problem (although I don't think drawing all the musculature is going to hurt you).

I think you need to, firstly, draw realistic figures primarily for a while until you get your proportions working. These are absurdly stylized: lower legs a full head too long. Calves wider than the thighs. Waists the width of the head.

There's nothing wrong with going for those insane J. Scott Campbell sort of proportions but you have to at least KNOW you're doing those exaggerations and why, or you're going to break your figures and consistency will be very hard for you.

Adopt a realist approach for a while, and try to draw realistically from life (photos are fine).

Secondly, and I know these are digital roughs and digital roughs don't always look great, these are very untidy. Very messy line quality. That's not the "thing that's holding you back" by any stretch but it does keep even the better ones from being satisfying to look at, and ultimately you're going to need to at least be ABLE to do tidy, careful linework (and then you can choose to be messy and fast if you want). Make sure that you're doing SOME clean ones now and again (even if you draw 10 times as many sketchy ones).

Thirdly, (there is not ONE unidentified problem, there are several, but this is a big one) you just need to keep building mileage. Drawing the human figure is an incredibly, incredibly difficult endeavor. You are doing fine (and there are lots of worse 2 year students out there). If you want to advance now is the time to take a serious approach to figure / anatomy for a while and come back to the comic-y stuff after you've gotten your skills a little more in check (you don't have to stop drawing exaggerated babes, but most of your drawing needs to focus on REAL structure, REAL proportion etc.).

Don't beat yourself up, redouble efforts. You ARE GMI, but drawing people is a life's work and you're just getting started.

>>4915198
What are you doing to study anatomy? Serious question, not picking on you.

>>4915248
First of all, I love this reply. I'm basically taking as many notes as I can here, so thanks.

On the note of drawing realistic figures, I am seriously trying to do that but they come out looking like this. Why might this be? I'm trying to literally copy exactly what I see but they keep coming out looking stylized.

This goes hand-in-hand with your third note. Again, I AM trying to take a serious approach but nothing is working; I keep getting these weird, stylized figures no matter what I do.

Is there any SUREFIRE way I can do what you are suggesting? Is there anything I can do that I am NOT already doing?

>>4915252
I'm trying to become acquainted with real proportions by looking at references. This is what everyone keeps telling me to do.

There are a couple steps to learning:
1.Be able to copy ~90% accuracy. This is especially important for people who are self studying as you have no teacher to tell you where you are wrong. You can only compare with your reference. When your results do not line up with your reference, you want to be absolutely sure that the problem does not lie within your technical/mechanical skill, but rather from a lack of knowledge.

2.Following the point above, an ability to photocopy does not an artist make. After you are able to correctly push pixels into a house, you must know WHY you are pushing said pixels and HOW they form a house. This HOW and WHY are the "fundies".

3. Fundies and copying complement each other. If I know in my head what is there I wont have to look at it(fundies). If I don't know (which will always be the case) I can always just look and copy. Of course copying is less versatile but more reliable, you pick your poison.

From what I can see honestly you should focus on step 1 for now. Pick up a bridgeman, vilppu, loomis, whatever for the love of god even anime, yes ANIME and just copy that within 90% accuracy first then take your next steps. Im glad you have a focus on the fundamentals but thats not your problem right now (it will be later). Your problem is you are trying to learn biology from a textbook, but you still dont know how to read basic English yet.

Good luck brother, maybe i feel your desperation thats why I wrote all this shit or maybe I just got baited whatever.

>>4915264
There is, actually. One of the greatest self critique methods we have as artists in the digital age is to draw from a reference, and then paste the reference onto another layer in whatever your digital program is, turn down the opacity, and try to size it to match the height of your drawing.

Immediately you'll be able to see all the places you failed to match the reference. Note that the goal is not to match the reference EXACTLY (you will eventually be able to get VERY close though) but rather to get a broad sense of your mistakes.

Are certain limbs too thick? Too thin? To long? etc.

Secondly, you can take a new layer, draw a line at the top of your head, at the bottom of your head, and then duplicate that layer. Move the duplicate down so the top line is right on the lower line of the original layer. Merge, duplicate, and move down again.

You should end up with a "ladder" of lines, each spaced one head apart. Use this to judge proportion. Is the figure more than 8 heads tall? STOP. Fix it before you move on (8 heads is already technically an exaggeration but most artists use it because it looks good). Is the crotch right in the middle (four heads up?) If not, fix it before you move on. You don't have to do this for every figure, and eventually you'll get good at eyeballing it.

What you have currently is a set of proportions you've gotten used to drawing that is out of whack with reality, and it's going to take time to break those habits and make better ones. I used to have some very similar faults in my drawings and I got better by measuring carefully and sticking to well known proportions (Loomis is very common, you can use them if you want and then pump up the hip width a little - he used the narrow hips fashionable at the time and they look a little weird now).

Note that "looking at references to become acquainted with proportion" is not a study of anatomy. "Anatomy" in art is learning all the bones and muscles that effect the surface forms.

>>4915289
I'll give it a shot but I have one more question:

Someone else said if after 2 years I can't draw a decent mannequin then I'm NGMI. Is he correct? I mean, you basically just said I have very little competence in any of this, even after 2 years.

>>4915291
oh, so im not just a beginner even after 2 years but im WORSE than a beginner?

nice. might as well compare my work to CWC's at this point.

>>4915198
You are trying to stylize the figure too much, some look like the mannequins used in fashion design, but the ugly ones. First try to understand how to draw a well-proportioned figure before you start playing with it. Also build the figure with the basic forms, it is not a meme to draw cubes and cylinders to give three dimensionality to things.

If you have problems to relate the proportions use the sight-size method to get a decent edge, BUT also try to build the figure using basic forms and when you can the skeleton, don't make the mistake of just copying the edges. This can serve as an aid to train the eye, but still the ideal is not always need that. Gradually you can stop taking measurements to start exaggerating the poses, and with the knowledge of the proportions you will be able to make decent figures. Look for Robert Beverly Hale's cranial proportions, which I think are the most practical for drawing a skeleton (and adding the muscles later).

I also don't see any knowledge of anatomy through those drawings, they really look like drawings of someone who has no idea how the muscles are located and what shape they are. I don't know what you are studying with, but there is no substitute for a good classic book and a course like Proko's or Scott Eaton's. Practice anatomy with men at first, it is easier to visualize muscles without the layers of fat that women have.

>>4915198
It's because you are still symbol drawing. So long as you are symbol drawing, you will never be able to draw a convincing figure.
Don't even bother with features yet, break everything down into simple forms only

>>4915264
Additionally, your heads are lagging behind even your bodies. If you want to draw people good faces are among the most critical, crucial parts. You are drawing simplified faces when you don't understand real facial features / the skull and it shows. Before you can stylize / indicate simplified faces, you need to learn and understand the real deal, and that is it's own area of study that is going to take a while. Make sure that you're using academically excellent material to learn from (another user mentioned some). I would not begin Bridgeman at the stage you're at. Loomis or Vilppu will be much easier to understand. Get digital copies of Anatomy for Sculptors, Michael Hamptons Figure Drawing, from the book thread (they're in one of the megas I'm sure).

If you need video to keep you engaged, Proko's anatomy is the best video anatomy program by far (especially for beginners) but he's a bit of a silly shit (I like it but lots don't). It isn't cheap but when you consider all the free books and resources you can find it's worth paying for (you DO want all the 3d models and ebooks that come with the paid version). Being an artist is cheaper than it's ever been and it's a huge journey in life so spending on top notch resources is very worth it and will save you time in the long run.

Sadly his anatomy course doesn't cover facial anatomy and I haven't seen his portrait course so I can't recommend it, but he does have some free videos on facial features on youtube that you can combine with book resources to learn what you need to know.

>>4915304
I read all those books. I've been doing everything you're suggesting for two whole years.

Don't tell me I'm doing it wrong; tell me WHAT I'm doing wrong.

>>4915210
Not studying smart

>>4915311
How do I study smart?

>>4915294
FUCK that, I'm writing the long replies in here don't listen to that guy listen to me.

You draw figures better than 99% of people on the planet right now. YOU are not satisfied with where you are, YOU want to get better, and you're going to. If you have that drive to go through all the doubt and frustration, you will get good.

Your biggest critic isn't that guy, it's you, and will always be you, and only you can convince yourself you are or are not going to make it.

>>4915311
I already told you I've gone through like 20 courses by now and have been doing this stuff for hours on end every single day these past two years.

I'm in awe that you're saying I have no knowledge of any of this.

>>4915313
For fuck sake WHICH ONE OF THE TALKING HEADS SPEAKS THE TRUTH AND WHICH ONE LIES???

>>4915312
I am several years ahead of you and I still crack those books now and again. I get something new every time. You are never "done" learning a fantastic resource. There are always more little delicious bon bons in there somewhere.

I believe you read those books, but you need to go back and do it more seriously, and take your time, and really integrate it, because you're not doing what those books say to do.

I am not feeling the form in these drawings

>>4915315
Good! Do it for 2 more, and do it better.

>>4915318
I read the book. I study what I learn from it. I directly apply it to what I'm drawing. Why does it not appear as such?

>>4915324
Let me bust out a redline for you to answer this BRB

>>4915321
I didn't ask if it looks good or bad; I asked what I'm doing wrong.

>>4915315
Don't want to bully or sound mean but, I don't even have to look at your bodies to know you aren't studying smart, by looking at how you draw your faces I can tell you don't use construction (or at least don't use it properly).
The same can be said about each other part of the body, I wasn't able to draw faces from imagination 4 months ago but by learning the anatomy and proper construction I can do it now.
I just don't believe you've truly studied properly through those 2 years.
Try learning the face first and use the same method of studying to learn the rest of the body.

>>4915329
You can SEE that I have left some construction lines when drawing the bodies.

Are you blind or am I missing something?

>>4915329
And ffs I HAVE STUDIED FACIAL STRUCTURE AND ANATOMY. This is why im so confused; ive done all the necessary work but it isnt showing

>>4915330
>Properly
Again I don't want to be mean, but your faces are fucked and aren't appealing. You may be using construction, but you are doing it wrong, and no it isn't because it's your "style", it isn't appealing because you aren't using the right proportions or shapes, which means you aren't doing it properly.

>>4915327
Did you learn from Vilppu? I don't see any indication of Vilppu here. It all looks very stiff to me, like a toy person made out of sticks, not a living person that's mostly water. Should have more of that blobby squash feel

>>4915330
Stick figures =/= construction. Bones aren't twigs, draw some skeletons

>>4915334
I'm not trying to draw stylistically; I'm genuinely trying to crank out realistic figures, and these were all drawn from reference. And I didn't do it quickly, I spent a good 30 minutes or so on each one.

What the hell is even happening???

>>4915336
This actually sounds like it might be a problem. You mean draw a 3d form for each bone, not just a line to represent it?

>>4915339
>What the hell is even happening???
I already told you, we are going in circles now.

>>4915335
Cool. How do I do that?

>>4915342
You told me to stop drawing stylistically. I'm not even trying to do that.

You told me to learn anatomy. I've been doing that for two years.

You told me to use construction.
I've been doing that and you can SEE i am doing that.

Clearly there is another problem here.

>>4915294
Well a mannequin is a really arbitrary standard and not really useful as an overall evaluation tool. You said you were good at houses, maybe your a god house drawer and a shit mannequin drawer. I think a better question would be "how fast can I learn to draw something that I've never drawn before?" If your answer to that is "2 years" i think that might be NGMI territory.
Also I might as well touch on this talent topic since were pretty much here. Looking at something doesn't necessarily make you better(unless your literally a genius).Neither does drawing something. Neither does drawing something right. You get the most when you draw it wrong+you know you drew it wrong+you remember how to draw it right+ you will draw it right next time. The downside is it is a fucking pain in the ass and takes alot of time. Talented people get it right the first time. The rest of us plebs have to grind our ass but we can get there in time. But again the question is how fast you get there

>>4915341
Yes dummy, if your goal is to draw a realistic human figure then draw it like it is, not wires covered in wax

>>4915335
Ugh time to buy YET another course.

I've wasted...what...$4,000 on courses by now.

>>4915345
>You told me to stop drawing stylistically. I'm not even trying to do that.
I never said that, read properly. (if you need clarification: many begs use "my style" as an excuse of their drawings looking like shit, I didn't imply you were doing it stylized on purpose, I was just dismissing that excuse).
>You told me to learn anatomy. I've been doing that for two years.
You did it wrong, and it shows.
>You told me to use construction.I've been doing that and you can SEE i am doing that.
That isn't construction, that's some simple lines that didn't help you at all since your faces look just as flat as if they weren't there.
>Clearly there is another problem here.
Yes, your stubbornness. Now learn construction and gesture from Vilppu (and this time do it properly) and return in 2 years.

>>4915330
Not the other anon but I somewhat agree with their assessment. Genuinely trying to help here. You construct but your forms and volumes end up too simple or abstracted, there's no rythm no breaks and they don't feel like they are standing in space. You do get fluidity so you are doing fine at gesture, but you lack rigidity now, thus why they are telling you construction. Also you have to understand what your lines mean, again, try to abstract less. I'll leave you 5 min gestures I did as an example although I'm not that great myself I hope it might exemplify what I mean. Don't take it as me showing off because I ain't.. Check how I try to use curves and straight lines, break things up when I need too.
I dunno when you say two years what it really means, like how much actual time you spend? Track your time if you do an hour here and there and skip days or have other things to take care off 2 years doesn't really mean anything. You'll go crazy if you don't really keep track of the actual of this. It will skew your perception of progress.

>>4915353
ok see you in two years after ive sucked this old man's penis approximately 57,000 times

I'm not gonna stop this shit until I see progress.

>>4915355
Is that honestly what it boils down to? Me simplifying too much? Is that is making my anatomy SEEM scuffed, even if i do have proper knowledge of it?

>>4915324
I'm sorry, but you are not learning or applying it the way you think you are.

>>4915358
GL anon.

>>4915198
Can you post an example of your inorganic work? Because fundamentally, if you're properly drawing through the human form it's pretty much a bunch of cylinders and boxes in perspective.

>>4915362
Ok like I said I'm going to shell out thousands more on courses and come back in 2 years.

If I knew how ridiculously difficult this fucking useless craft would be, I would have never started it.

>>4915362
The problem is I'm aware of all that stuff you are writing. Why am I unable to apply it?

>>4915360
I can't say if it's that one thing only, that's the thing that stands out to me the most as of now. Look it's pretty much like this, you want to get somewhere (I don't know where you are aiming at) and you know what you can do now, so you have to ask how can I get there? And do something different about what you were doing. If it doesn't work keep looking until you find what you are missing and move along. The road is a bunch of figuring this out about what you want to do and how.

>>4915198
Post some of your non-figure works.

>>4915367
You don't need to pay more dude just go back to the free resources that are available and hone in on it a little more. You are not going to spend your way out of this rut, you're going to study / grind your way out of it.

I think MOST people would not have gotten so deep into art if they had any idea how hard it was, but you're in it now and you will fucking make it.

>>4915370
I don't know man I'm years ahead of you and I fuck it up from time to time. One of the videos of Villpu on NMA has him bang out this quick sketch of a foreshortened reclining figure and his ass gets the legs WAY small. Jeff Watts fucks up and draws small heads all the time if he's not watching for it. It's just bad habits man, you need to slow down and be careful while you're breaking and rebuilding them.

>>4915372
Here's the only thing immediately available on this device im using: a U-boat but it's fucking Thomas the tank engine. I drew this precisely 30 minutes after learning how to draw objects in perspective. Not 2 years; 30 minutes.

I'll go find more recent stuff (this was from this February)

>>4915365
here's a mac10. whole process n all>>4915362

>>4915198
>I have been at this for TWO YEARS

These are pretty good for a two-year student. The people you admire for their figure drawings probably spent at least 15+ years working to get that good.

You have the right approach; you're starting with a gesture, blocking in major, simplified forms, and working from general to specific. Don't get discouraged!

>>4915365
>inorgan
meant to reply to you with that last image. fuck this shit site

another inorganic example. i like drawing vehicles and guns, ok?

>>4915382
Oh, so everyone else's advice is just null and void then?

>>4915393
Come on dude all of this advice is good, I thought you were taking notes.

This is the most good advice I've ever seen anyone get dogpiled with here, just sleep on it and get up tomorrow ready to work hard.

>>4915397
That was more of a sarcastic remark; I actually hate people calling my art good. Hell, I hate it even more than people nonconstructively calling it bad.

>>4915382
>These are pretty good for a two-year student. The people you admire for their figure drawings probably spent at least 15+ years working to get that good.
>You have the right approach; you're starting with a gesture, blocking in major, simplified forms, and working from general to specific. Don't get discouraged!
Stop saying this, he's clearly doing it wrong and won't get there, and no this isn't good progress for TWO YEARS.
>>4915393
Follow all the advice we've given you here, you will need to study again some of the things you've already seen, like the other anon said your gesture doesn't seem to be the problem, but your construction you'll need to start from the very beginning.

Your inorganic stuff is pretty solid. I see you've found success following construction rules, and it seems you expect to find the same success with inorganic figures. Unfortunately inorganic shapes are a bit too complicated for construction rules to completely encompass, which means your going to have to spend alot more time with them. When you catch a ball do you calculate the parabola? Of course not, you just kinda "feel" it. I think thats probably why vilppu says "feel the form" thats why useless sounding stuff like rhythm and flow are what other artists use to describe their process.

>>4915378
>>4915380
>>4915384

Thanks for posting these. I think everyone in this thread who's been encouraging has given you solid advice (mileage, practice, etc.) - the only thing I can add is, you need to give yourself time to develop the ability to properly see and translate that into what your hands can do. You're still seeing things as symbols at the moment, so they're getting translated to paper as such. It's easier to tell when drawing figures because it's a familiar form, but you can kind of get away with it for other things.

However, if you look closely at your mac 10, the trigger guard has no thickness to the metal, the actual trigger lacks dimension and its parts in the back, the ellipses are out of perspective, there's no beveling to the metal on any of the edges, etc. These are the sorts of details that make something look realistic rather than symbolic, and it's the same thing that's happening to your figure drawing.

Draw a pelvis from every conceivable angle or ngmi

>>4915409
If im deliberately trying to draw with form but it comes out look like symbols, what is the immediate remedy?

>>4915406
Will this vilppu asshole finally make things feasible? Is he the secret ive been looking for?

>>4915413
Yes, but you should probably study other masters too, which ones did you study to get to your current level?

>>4915416
Proko, Riven Pheonix, and Scott Harris mostly. Of course I've also studied Loomis stuff, among others.

>>4915416
Also sycra kinda but then I realized he was just harming me

>>4915217
where does one find references for drawing all of the muscules?

>>4915419
well for stuff like this it's difficult, but drawing extremely buff body builders helps get a good grasp of things too. The gigachad photos are a good set to use as references, they're all on some sleekntear website

>>4915412
The most immediate thing you can do is get super accurate with your measurements. Since you've done proko before this is probably review to you but still applicable to your work:

https://www.proko.com/drawing-measuring-techniques/

I just started yesterday lmao, stop bitmaybw try actually drawing what you want to see instead of memorizing musle names or doing sketches lmao

>>4915393
>Oh, so everyone else's advice is just null and void then?

if they disagree with me, probably. feel free to tell me where you think I'm wrong, though!

>>4915406
>Stop saying this, he's clearly doing it wrong and won't get there

false; pyw

>>4915444
Idk man, I mean their advice is good, despite how much I hate being called a beginner after 2 years of hard work.

You telling me "omg ur so good keep it up u winner" is kinda worse tho

Happiness is submission to Loomis

>>4915308
You're basically doing almost everything wrong, although in your favor I can say that there are many people who are doing worse all over the internet, but doing better than others is not doing well.

In none of those drawings it seems that you took measurements correctly because they wouldn't look so thin or over stylized (and if you did, you did it wrong), no matter how much you use cylinders you don't give them real depth, that's why they look flat even if you see traces of the ellipses (this is because you don't know how to draw well the basic forms in space).

No matter how long you've been looking at things related to human figure drawing if you can't apply them at the time of drawing. I know it hurts to be told by so many people at the same time, but it seems like you just didn't study things correctly. You have to try to understand what you are drawing, analyze the shapes and interpret them as if they were true three-dimensional forms and not just lines on a flat surface.

From the other drawings you posted it seems that you are not used to drawing freehand, which unfortunately means going back to learn how to see correctly and make your hand pay attention to you. For this I would tell you to watch Brent Eviston's basic drawing course (you don't have to pay for it, it's probably in the video course thread) and practice everything he tells you in the videos. Don't feel bad about having to do this, I've been drawing for many years and from time to time I always go over the fundamentals again.

Right now you should try to do something like the image I show you and then try to fill it in with basic forms. This is only the basis of the drawing, if you can't do this well you will never get the figures right. Try this and if you see that you can't do it well you will find something to practice. I recommend you this mainly for the proportion problem, because I think it's easier to correct some rigid poses than the measurement problems.

>>4915412
Observation exercises and measurement. Measurements should be made to train and reinforce your ability to see things as they truly are.

>>4915458
So 2 years wasted?

>>4915469
And you'll never get em back, better not spend the ones you got left whinging.

>>4915479
See, what if I spend 2 more years on this and the same thing happens? Usually, when you learn something, you make linear progress. With art, it seems as though making any progress it all can be an impossibility, even if done done correctly. Why the hell even is this?

>>4915469
I don't think these are lost years. Everything you saw during this time will surely help you understand other things more easily in the future. Some people may take longer to learn certain things; but everyone can learn to draw if they put their mind to it. Just don't give up and try to improve from now on based on the advice we gave you. I really hope you do well.

>>4915492
Again, who speaks the truth? You or the other guy?

Use grids and copy photos exactly 1:1.
Draw exactly what you see and not what you think
you see(avoid symbol drawing).
Trust me this works.

>>4915483
There is no correct way to art. If you can't learn to radically change your perspective you'll never have the breakthroughs that lead to progress.

>>4915499
Related pic

>>4915505
Good idea.

>>4915495
I don't really know you to give you life advice, just do what you want. If you really enjoy drawing and would like to improve, you won't give up so easily. It's up to you to try to make this a possible source of income or just a hobby

>>4915507
And after you have done enough of this, you won't have to do this forever every single drawing, the drawing experience will stick to your memory. After that you just have to practice construction drawing/figure drawing so you can draw from imagination.

>>4915198

The big problem I see in your drawings is you still don't understand what volumes does the human body has and their proportions.

How do you fix this? a lot of observation, learning anatomy and the most important:

learn perspective, try to figure out how simple cylinders behave in different angles, you can simplifying your body with cylinders and make a lot of contour drawings, this will teach you how to make the ilussion of 3d forms in a flat plane like a paper.

>>4915198
>2 years
that's it, i'm becoming a talentfag

>>4915198
You got some good advice here already. Here's it simple.

Problem: Too much symbol drawing / stylized.

Solution:
Practice proportions.
Draw from real life.

Dont even need to ask . This is classic /ic.

already know OP has:

-probably not even practiced 500 hours drawing humans over those 2 years

-wasted thousands of dollars on courses when there are books that have been available for decades that have all the instruction you need because they think a course > hours and hours of repetition and failure.

-from the image, op thinks theyre too good to really focus on construction and anatomy because theres barely any structure in that image.

-cant be helped if they spent actual thousands of dollars on useless courses instead of critically analyzing their weaknesses and addressing them

No doubt in my mind that you have spent 200 hours over 2 months practicing basic construction and studying the skull and be better than you are now, two years ago.

I'm not OP but what do you guys think about my gesture study? I'm still a newfag. Am I go on the right path?

>>4915852
Do your own ones and stop copying hampton, fag.

>>4915198
>Can someone explain to me what I am doing wrong here and how to fix it?
>I have spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on courses, and I have spent countless hours doing gesture drawings and other such studies.
That's your issue here. You've wasted your time.

>>4915198
These pictures are nice but they look stiff and lifeless and overwrought. It looks like you are following steps in your head to construct a human correctly but art is primarily an illusion that tricks the mind into and thus following a series of steps to get the result just does not work when attempting to represent something as alive as a human.
If I'm honest man, you need to clear your mind and allow your training to do the work without you actively thinking about it. Be looser and free and scribble out a figure.

In shirt, too stiff, you need to think less and art more

>>4915884
Just adding the ass at the top is hot

>>4915198
Please don't kill yourself.

>>4915198
did you try drawing what you see? lol

Asking for art advice here is a clear signal you're a ngmi and a retard.

>>4915312
get born with 140+ visual-spatial IQ

>>4915894
nigga what

>>4915588
See, I'm gonna go do what these people are saying for another two years and come back and you'll say the same thing, regardless of what I do.

Like I asked, how do I fix this?

>>4915873
This is my own one

>>4916014
Very disjointed and stiff

>>4916018
Any tip to fix it?

>>4916022
inb4 they tell you to study anatomy or basic shapes without really explaining what that means

>>4915198
It looks like you are trying to reproduce other peoples sketches instead of understanding the construction, shaoe and form of the thing you are drawing. Next tine you do sketches, take a reference pose and draw it from a different angle. So imagine its the one with girl and arms raised in your image. Draw her from the side based on the front facing reference image. Dont go looking for a side view image to copy or rotate a 3d model. Understand the basic form and construct it from another angle like this. Then another. And another.

>>4915198
Vilppu.

>>4916037
You mean take a reference image, draw it one way, then draw it from another orientation using the same image as reference?

>>4915294
even if he was right(which I don't know or care) self taught people may fell into some obscene traps and bang away studies in an inefficient way, so I think self taught artists shouldn't give a fuck about those kind of claims

>post in /beg/ thread
>get shitty one off replies
>this guy doesnt
>gets real advice
why is this place so wishy washy with advice? if advice like this were given then it helps others as well as the OP but when you go to /beg/ its just 'REEE ITS BAD LOOMIS" and then they never reply again.

how much time to you dedicate to figure drawing sessions?

>>4917222
Few hours usually. One time I went full insane and did it for like 8 hours straight.

>>4917204
Because I'm not a /beg/.

>>4917204
You are absolutely right. From now on I'll make dedicated threads for me non stop.

I only read half the thread, it got quite winding.

From what I can see in OP's art. It looks like you don't like drawing humans. Or to an extent you don't like drawing at all. My drawing looks like that sometimes and the conclusions I came to is, I'm not motivated enough to try harder because I don't like the pose or I don't like the current subject or I straight up hate it. There are books that when you read it , it might give you the motivation to try to draw better.

From what I read people kept giving technical advice on what to read to learn, which part is wrong. Which books to study, how to learn that specific technical part.

But motivation is even more fundamental than that. It's the mindset. The psychology. People meme about it here as the "SOUL" but there is some truth to it.

What are you doing wrong?

As others already said : not studying smart.

Some questions to ask yourself, Do you like drawing? Do you like drawing humans? Do you see beauty in it? What do you like most about it? Why are you drawing/studying humans?

I may study humans because it's the most important subject in art. But deeper than that, I find beauty in it. When I learn ,study and draw it, I think about the beauty and try to express that , I am also genuinely curious how the structures work such as the lats, teres major, and pecs connecting to the humerus like a scientist, or a visual scientist.

Then slowly apply the technical rules such as proportions, anatomy, rhythms, etc.

Figure out your mindset, if you don't like it. Pretend to like it. Eventually you will actually like it. If you don't reach that then think of doing a different career.

Other than that, as others already said, the technical stuff. My take is that you can't even do gesture. Focus on step 1 before getting to step 2 then to step 3.

In this case : step 1 : gesture , step 2 : mannequin, step 3 : anatomy

So just practice gesture, like spend a months on it. I recommend Force by Mike Matessi and Proko.

>>4917418
Quality reply right here. People always tell me that art is a hugely emotional thing, and desu they're quite right. Man, the things I originally posted was when I was in a good mood; you should see the shit I do when I'm in a bad one!

About gesture, here are a few I did earlier today after beginning a Vilppu course. Am I on the right track or am I doing it wrong still?

>>4915198
how the fuck are you so bad. I think your studies are "doodle a line then browse youtube for several hours" and say you've been drawing lol

>>4915198
>ONE unidentifiable problem
Horny.

>>4915198
This is pretty good for 2 years of drawing. You have some good qualities, don't be too hard on yourself. I can see the main landmarks on the figures and I can see that you are actually using them, referencing them and relating them to each other. There is something that kills the appeal of your good figure drawings, which is how you indicate the facial features. Watch how Watts indicates the facial features with simple shadow shapes relating to the skull structure. A wonky head can kill a good figure drawing, which is what is happening in all of your drawings. I am not trying to be harsh here, I am saying you actually make good figure drawings and have the opportunity to make a big leap in the quality of your drawings. I would suggest learning how to indicate facial features, instead of drawing symbols and focus on the skull and portrait. Alongside I would suggest drawing and rendering simple still lifes with fruit and other things to improve on how you convey form. Don't worry man, you are on your way to get good, keep at it!

>>4915358
>I'm not gonna stop this shit until I see progress.
good mindset and good luck

>>4915355
I don't know anything about drawing and i came here cause the thread was linked on /v/ but these are really good man

>>4916022
swallow talent pill

>>4918196
Oh god, why was it linked there.

>>4917997
What makes you say this?

>>4917951
Wrong but whatever

>>4918264
cause people were discussing drawing

>>4918277
I'm just gonna go ahead an guess that they were making fun of me, correct?

>>4918286
are you OP?
no, no one was making fun of you, one guy just linked it
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/527591612/
it's somewhere in the middle

>>4918286
Anon who linked you here, no man. I linked your thread because you've clearly put a ton of time, money and effort in and are way better than I am, but according to these replies on here you have so much further to go that me sitting here with fuck all skill or motivation am eons away from ever seeing some degree of success.
You seem to have the right attitude to persist so I wish you the best of luck.

>>4918344
I'd honestly prefer to be in hell than in limbo. I'm jealous of you.

>>4918344
Just so you /v/ people understand, /ic/ is full of assholes who will tell everyone they suck over the tiniest things they can nitpick, no matter skill level, nobody escapes them, no matter how good, the result is that a lot of people here think they're worse than they are and other people think the only right way to be good is to fit one very specific mold, namely photorealism, all deviations from that be damned. And then they think the pinnacle of photorealism is non-artistic tacky shit on artstation. This is a terrible board for critique and a worthless timesink for artists. You can tell that to /v/ for me. I'm not being pessimistic I actually wish this board was actually useful, but if you're making games I take it you want, and probably need due to limitations, some degree of stylization with your art, unfortunately /ic/ isn't going to help you, not even the /alt/ thread, you're better off talking to actual artists who draw like what you want to draw.

>>4918358
This is wrong though ic doesn’t care for photocopier monkeys at all. It’s all about big titty anime girls. Photorealism really is t what anyone here strives for tall though seriously, it’s usually mocked, even

>>4918371
I see the anime girls criticized all the time. Yes realism gets criticized once it's literally copying a photo so it's identical but other than that every thread everywhere is about copying references closely to resemble them. Don't pretend it's not true. People mock the coom art just as much as you think. Regardless people here mostly want realist-enough porn, not overly stylized porn or anything at all really, point being realism still reigns here.

>>4918402
I'm just imagining those deviantart fetishist who know absolutely zero about art and exclusively draw chibi girls in front-view with colored pencils and call it their style lmao

You're totally right; something being porn doesn't mean it's immune to criticism.

>>4916014
You are on the right path, keep practicing and watch videos of experienced artists doing gesture, see what you like from each on of them and try applying it to your own work. The people who really helped gesture *click* for me were Vilppu and Huston, but there are several other options for you to choose.

>>4918351
I dunno anon, I still wanna draw but I'm way too lazy to learn and thinking about all the studying I'd need to do just makes me frustrated and gives me a headache. But I can't give up either for whatever reason. At least you're dedicated enough to put in a lot of time and effort and there are clearly results, even if they're not to your satisfaction yet.
I couldn't sketch a person from imagination or even from reference and make it not look deformed for love nor money, I have to cheat with tracing figures for proportions/poses.
I know I'm supposed to post my work, I don't have any sketches on hand so see attached.

>>4918443
See, this is what confuses me; am I really as bad as people are saying and I think too highly of myself, or are the people praising me correct and I'm just being hard on myself?

pain.wmv

>>4918458
I'd probably trust the people who are giving you the constructive criticism. I think you're better than I am, but I suck.
I'd probably ignore the people saying you're NGMI since that's a bad attitude to take. But do take what the other people on here are saying to heart.

>>4918484
On the topic of porn art, one piece of advice I can give you is to just don't do it. I did coomer art for quite a while and it just harmed me.

>>4918493
Thanks. Honestly though, I don't want to draw this shit for commissions or what have you, I just want to get my weird autistic fetish thoughts out onto a medium that I can inflict on others.

>>4918505
Write.

>>4915198
dont rush your drawings, it looks like you didnt stop to look at it until you were done
maybe learn to draw limbs seperately one after another

>>4915198
with that face i can tell you lack loomis

>>4916014
I have to recommend checking out Mattesi's Drawing Force. It really made gesture click for me. You don't have to pay for anything, he has a lot of great content on his YouTube channel. You can probably find his books in the book thread as well.

That said, it's worth the money if you want to buy his book.

>>4915384
You can't even draw properly in a perspective grid, there's little to no hope for you. Try an easier hobby.

>>4915198
OP are you still around? Not to discredit some of the good general advice you got in this thread, I know what your core issue is and I can help you with it.
Drop an email/discord or something if you want us to chat about it.

>>4918778
Why can't you tell me here?

>>4918776
Please explain yourself beyond "you are bad, give up."

>>4918782
I'm not going to coach you with real professional advice for free.
If you don't want to then go ahead and continue Loomis.

>>4918805
Hit me up at byelt1997@gmail.com

I'm genuinely curious.

>>4918808
That’s hilarious you’re gonna pay him to learn this 1 SIMPLE TRICK THATS LEAVING NGMI’S BAFFLED! pros HATE him

>>4918808
I sent.
(S G)

>>4918815
whatever grows my art penis is appreciated

>>4915198
The faces just aren't being drawn by the same mind that's drawing the bodies. Clearly a fraud.

>>4918808
i hope that's not your main email .-.

>>4919090
This is actually useful.

>>4919112
I'm not that stupid lmao

>>4915380
>>4915384
2 obvious problems:
1. You don’t understand ellipsis in perspective
2. Your proportions are way out of wack

>>4918911
He is scamming you. Your issue is symbol drawing, it's not that complicated.

>>4915419
Someone will remember the name, there's a life drawing website that uses 3d models of human musculature instead of photos

>>4919180
How easy is this fixed? This seems like more of a psychological thing than anything.

>>4915294
If you take someone telling you that you're ngmi as evidence that you're ngmi then you're definitely ngmi.

>>4919203
see
>>4915465

It is a psychological thing, but it isn't actually that hard to fix.
Accept that you don't actually know how things are shaped and make everything out of simple 3D forms. In your figures, you use 3D forms for some things and then just go "oh I know what this looks like" for the rest. And then it comes out wrong and you're confused.

>>4919203
Have you tried looking at reference upside down and drawing it upside down while trying to make it as accurate as possible? Sometimes you need to break familiarity with subject in ways like that because your brain wants to assure you that you already know and understand what you're seeing when you actually don't.

>>4919246
I'll give that a shot.

>>4919223
Again, this is another piece of the puzzle I'm trying to figure out.

Do an actual life drawing course with a model in front of you.

>>4915198
If I block out the faces with my finger the drawings look pretty good. Is this the result of people here shitting on Loomis? Figures are decent but the head construction and symbol drawn features are really bad in comparison. Also stop the anxiety and self pity, this is normal progress for 2 years and will turn into actual good progress if you ignore the retarded crabs and work through Loomis (the head and hands book). You are clearly able to judge proportion, make clean lines and learn ass and legs anatomy just fine. Apply the same work to basic head drawing and head anatomy.

>>4919331
>you are clearly able to learn ass and legs anatomy just fine
I may have just figured out another problem of mine. >_>

>>4919278
This isn't a piece, this is the whole problem right now. Solve this first before moving on to anything else.
Any other advice you get will be useless until you learn to stop symbol drawing.

>>4919457
I was more referring specifically to the "using forms for some things but not for others" part. But yeah this overall seems like the biggest problem here.

>>4915198
you seem to have a good confidence on anatomy. work on it some more
i think your biggest fault right now is your faces. i would start zeroing in on working on heads and getting them down
you’re drawing competent 3D bodies but with off-putting 2D heads

You may have low art iq but art also takes longer than you think to get comfortable with. Just please stop spending money

>>4919685
alright brb gonna study this shit for 10 years, during which i could literally become a fucking surgeon in less time

why does this HAVE to be such a fucking time sink?

>>4919851
It doesn't HAVE to be.
Just lower your standards. Don't expect mastery and you set yourself up for satisfaction

>>4919851
Because it really is a skill set that involves a lifetime of learning, which is what I find interesting about it. And it's essentially useless and a luxury when compared to things like surgery or science.

If you're looking for a one and done sort of skill that you can be finished with in an allotted amount of time art ain't it - maybe it's worth asking yourself why you're doing this if you find the time sink distressing.

>>4919851
Good things come to those who wait. What sounds more fund spending your best years drawing and painting then being able to relax as you age gracefully never losing the ability to create beautiful art, or alternatively, spending years in medical school reading books to be responsible for life and death working crazy hours to retire and never do it again. I choose drawing

>>4919851
You know if you just put a year or two into mastering your fundamentals you'd be fine, right? Nobody ever likes that answer because its hard work but its a lot better than spending 10 years noodling around not knowing what the fuck you're doing.

>>4919851
>>4919972
Gonna agree here with anon. Mastering fundies makes your figure drawings pop. Especially if you master perspective, construction, and have a stick figure free hand for gesture drawing. The loomis mannikin is one example of a free hand. First capture the gesture using it, then use construction and build ontop of it using boxes, sphere, cylinders, whatever and add anatomy. To draw a successful human you must have your fundies down step by step. I'm guessing this is what those fundies fags were really trying to say all along.

>>4915266
Read Vilppu drawing manual and follow his courses

>>4920162
>I'm guessing this is what those fundies fags were really trying to say all along.
Learning the basics of a given discipline allows you to become proficient in that discipline. Who would have thought?

>>4919851
actually many expert artists will have spent 10 years or more in art and would have achieved their level gradually over the course of this period.

you give the impression that you think you just need to put in x years and x dollars and you'll come out the other end as a professional artist.

are you working smart? are you working once a week only? are you thinking about why your art does not look the art of more advanced people? your level seems to be advanced beginner maybe soon intermediate if you keep making progress so stop crying like an unstable person.

also don't just grind fundies with a nebulous dream of becoming an artist one day to fulfill your NEET fantasies. you can do this but you'll burn out quickly. instead try actually doing something creative and apply your fundies thereafter - that's the engine that drives progress for the sincere artist.

>>4920162
If you've got your fundies down 100% you don't even need the Loomis mannequin. But yeah you've got the right idea, everything is built on the fundamentals. They're the easiest concepts to learn in art its just that the practice is brutal if youre in a rush to git gud quick. I've never met a single person who got through their 2-3 years of fundies at school without crying at their desk at least once out of frustration and probably extreme mental fatigue.

>>4919961
Art used to be/is an essential part of science.

>>4919851

>>4919961
I fucking love science too.

>>4915198
Here is my technique for learning to draw anything. The idea is to train the subsystems of your brain together in sorta the same way you would train an neural net: by doing the thing you want to do with lots of examples:
>get lots of examples of what you want to draw
>sort them by similarity (angle, pose, etc)
>for each of the examples:
>.. trace them first
>.. once you can confidently trace it then block parts of the image out with a solid square, circle, etc in a new layer
>.. draw the part that is blanked out
>.. once you can relatively accurately do that in a few places (switch the opacity of the blocker layer to 0 and compare) then draw the whole image with the example off to one side as reference
>draw and redraw each example as reference focusing on *abstraction* more than anything
The idea is you want to somehow build something in your brain that represents the object in a more pure form
Your goal above anything else should be to draw as many examples as possible. You will probably be into the thousands (1000+) of examples before you can do it well. If you do 20 per day its going to take at least about 1 1/2 months before you can do it well. And then once you can, switch to another subject.
The more you "chunk" the subject up the better. For example, do this process for just the arms, then the legs, torso, etc.
At some point you should move from "loading" your brain full of examples to generation. That is when you actually draw the object without examples. You freely generate versions of the examples, which you should be able to do. Generating / drawing lots of drawings of the object is very necessary because it effectively cleans the pipes and optimizes the neural circuits responsible for generation. Its like unwrapping your new generator for drawing that object. Afterward its like riding a bike.

Main point: draw MANY examples (1000+) as faithfully as you can

>>4915198
The secret of getting good is to simply use your brain
basic logic, is the building stone of all skills
figure out things yourself, organize things in a way you know to be effective for you

Its so sad to see threads with 1000s of replies missing the point that is so painfully obvious
The secret to making it is right in front of your nose!

>>4915198
The secret of getting good is to simply use your brain
basic logic is the building stone of all skills
figure things out for yourself, organize things in a way you know to be effective for you

Its so sad to see threads with 1000s of replies missing the point that is so painfully obvious
The secret to Make it:tm: is right in front of your nose!
No amount of books ,exercises, podcasts will help if you don't get off your ass metaphorically, and ingest the information presented to you

>>4920736
This is why I regress. I don’t draw shit repeatedly. I just get happy something looks ok and stop

>>4920825
that image made me cry

responding to everyone who has replied between last night and now: thanks (and yes im still taking notes)

OP here. Been doing some gesture drawings. Yeah, I see what the fuck you guys mean about my bodies vs my faces. .-.

>>4921030
Do the upside down Picasso exercise. There is no point in repeatedly doing figure drawing until you can break yourself of symbol drawing. You are just reinforcing bad habits right now.

>>4921030
can we see the reference?

>>4921194
should I do it autistically before doing anything?

>>4921484
There's nothing autistic about it, it really shouldn't take you that long to break out of it.

You're not feeling the form. Watch some Vilppu and Huston. For example, her right leg could use some lines which go around her thing, but you chose to draw a straight line which is not helping you (same goes for the left leg and other forms)

>>4920825
pyw, brainbro

Were you born from a high test womb and do you have the ligameme?

>>4922571
Almost done with Part 1 of Vipplu's gesture thing. Here are some two minute gestures, my heart is still pounding (I don't work well under pressure). Am I doing better at the very least?

>>4922722
I actually was lmao didn't realize it had anything to do with art (in this case apparently the fuck it doesn't)

What I'm getting from this thread is the following:
-I am good at a few things but horribly misguided in most others.
-I have wasted more money than necessary.
-My bodies are much worse than my faces.
-I have a poor sense of form.

Is this accurate?

>>4917204
People don't have the patience to write a full critique for every anon in /beg/

>>4918358
This. There are malicious people here who genuinely want to drag you down

>>4923248

So I just got the section on circular forms and uh...


...is this honestly one of the breakthroughs I've been searching for?

>>4923874
Anon, stop mindlessly doing figure drawings and do the upside down picasso exercise. It doesn't take that long.

>>4923883
im having so much fun with forms though. can i get back to it after ive done the upside down thing?

nuke this thread

>>4923890
Obviously, but doing figure drawing while you are still at the symbol drawing stage is fruitless. And those aren't really forms, you're just drawing round, flat shapes.

>>4923908
How do I make them forms?

I did the Picasso thing but I don't wanna share it because it'll just make things worse.

>>4923913
You have to learn perspective.

>>4923938
Can you see with your eyes where you were wrong? That accuracy is what you need to train.

>>4923950
How do I make them forms though? Directly tell me how to do that.

>>4923953
No one can directly tell you how to do that, the question is far too complicated to even attempt to explain with words.
You have to learn how to visualize 3D objects yourself, and the tried-and-true method to do that is to learn perspective.

>>4923966
Sphere in front of another sphere. Something that is almost impossible to fuck up.

If THIS is just me making flat 2D shapes, how the fuck do I make it 3D?

>>4923999
Again, learn perspective.
Your ellipses are wrong, even the outer contours are wrong for a sphere.

>>4924007
How the fuck...

IT IS A CIRCLE WITH THINGS AROUND IT. How would I alter it to be a sphere?

>>4924007
Circle. Round thing.

>>4924007
Sphere. Round thing with round things around it.

How would this NOT be a sphere? How could ANYONE alter this to be spherical? SPHERICAL.

Look. Top one was drawn using a mouse and basic circle/line tools in a computer program.

Bottom one was drawn by hand using a pencil and paper.

Both were drawn by the same mind. Why is the top one a convincing 3D object but the bottom one isn't? Clearly my knowledge or ability to interpret 3D objects isn't the problem here.

>>4915198
You're just under symbol drawing because he think to know what a human look like.
Try to fix that first.
Also draw clothed figures.
Naked humans are pretty hard.

>>4924134
That is LITERALLY what I am trying to do. See above.

>>4924134
Terrible advice, if you want to "git gud" you need to learn to draw naked humans first. Anatomy and construction is everything, for drawing people.

>>4924150
ok cool

can you please explain the fuck what is happening above that guy? ffs it's like ive got so much of this basic stuff hammered down but one small pillar at the bottom is collapsing

>>4924007
you fucking vague asshole "LEARN PERSPECTIVE" DOESNT EVEN MAKE IT CLEAR WHAT IM SUPPOSED TO DO

fucking retard

>>4924027
It is factually not a circle, you sperg.

>>4924195
There is nothing vague about learning perspective. It is a series of concrete mathematical rules.

I have been patient with you, I have given you advice multiple times throughout this thread (even though this did not need to BE a thread in the first place, because you should really be in /beg/), but you have constantly, constantly disregarded all advice you were given and dug yourself deeper and deeper into your rut.

You have made it plainly obvious that trying to help you is a waste of time.
If you are not going to take advice then fuck off.

>>4924240
I'm not a beginner you fucking retard. I have told you this multiple times.

Like I posted above, I am clearly able to comprehend perspective/shapes/spheres/circles/etc/whatever and convey it on some level using a computer program. However, it seems as though everything goes down the shitter when it comes to actually drawing the fucking thing.

Do I need to take some weird drug to stabilize my hand or something? Like, do I NEED the ability to draw a perfect circle?

>>4924240
Like I can LITERALLY trace a circle or cylinder or what have you and you still wouldn't be satisfied; as long as I'm drawing it with my hand, it seems as though you people are never the fuck satisfied with anything.

>>4924240
You don't have to be so rude.
>>4924250
Not a "perfect" circle, but you do need to be able to draw circles, you'll just need to practice it until you get close enough to it, I don't think there is an easy way out (unless you want to draw squares and inside the square you draw a circle).
Either way don't get discouraged anon, I BELIEVE in you. GL.

>>4924250
>I'm not a beginner you fucking retard.
Yes, you are.
You are a beginner.
And you will never stop being a beginner until you can accept your shortcomings. You will never improve until you learn to accept criticism graciously.


>>4924267
>You don't have to be so rude.
Being patient with him went nowhere.
He doesn't need someone to be nice to him, he needs to be told point blank what his issue is. People were patient and kind with him all thread, and now he is blowing up and defending his bad habits and lack of skill.
What he needs is a swift kick in the ass and a reality check.

>>4924324
Come and kick my ass then, I'll fucking murder you, faggot.

You keep telling me to do something, I do it, and you aren't satisfied. You tell me to regress, I regress, and you still aren't satisfied.

I could draw a dot and you wouldn't like it for whatever reason. You aren't telling me what the issue is.

>>4924361
Dumb, hypersensitive /beg/.

>>4924324
I hope someone doxxes you over this fucking site and kills your entire family.

You fucking Americans are all the same. I'm happy the virus is wiping so many of you out.

>>4924364
Not a beginner. Stop saying that. Like OTHER PEOPLE HAVE SAID, I clearly am competent on some level but am lacking specific fundamentals. I'm trying to BECOME COMPETENT in these FUNDAMENTALS but YOU ARE NEVER SATISFIED WITH THEM.

What am I supposed to even do at this point??? I'm literally following your instructions and you keep telling me I'm doing EVERYTHING wrong.

>>4924365
Nigger, why would I keep trying to help you after this shit? Why would ANYONE try to help you after this temper tantrum you're throwing?
Just go ahead and kill yourself.

At this point, honestly, someone TELL ME HOW TO DRAW A SINGLE FRACTION OF A DOT BEFORE I EVEN CONTINUE. Tell me how to draw the art equivalent of a single pixel.

Man fuck that, tell me how to fucking hold a pencil at this point. Regress however much you need to so I can figure out what I'm doing wrong.

And no, it's not "you don't know perspective" or "you need to learn fundamentals"; it is A FEW SPECIFIC THINGS THAT ARE WRONG and there are A FEW SPECIFIC WAYS TO FIX THEM.

God.

>>4924370
You are the one who started flinging shit, not me. Everything was calm until you called me a sperg.

kys you fucking narcissistic retard

>>4924372
>>4924366
Kill yourself. You got your answer multiple times.

>>4924376
You told me "you need to learn perspective." I went and started learning that and posted my initial results from the FIRST STAGES OF LEARNING IT and YOU WERE NOT SATISFIED.

How much more do I need to regress?

>>4924375
Like fuck it was.
You posted these before being called a sperg:
>>4924027
>>4924051
>>4924195

This is your own fault, no one else's.

>>4924375
>narcissistic retard
Says the guy having a fucking meltdown because someone told him to study perspective.
Stay mad, stay bad. Or just end your suffering now, faggot.

>>4924392
OK I gotta study perspective. How do I do that at THE ABSOLUTE MOST BASIC, RUDIMENTARY level? Since I can't draw A SINGLE DOT without you guys saying "you're bad," WHAT am I supposed to do?

>>4924385
You have your answer. Study or stay bad forever.
Either way, get the fuck out.

>>4924401
nonononononono READ. WHAT. I. ASKED. ABOVE.

There. A fucking dot. Is it OK? Can I fucking progress to a line now?

Or is it "not in perspective"?

>>4924402
Read what I said instead.

>>4924408
Yeah OK I read it for the third time.
Your turn. Read what I said.

>>4924409
Good. Now leave.

>>4924411
Follow my instructions. Read what I said and give me an answer.

You said "do the thing." Tell me HOW to "do the thing."

>>4924412
No.

>I hope someone doxxes you over this fucking site and kills your entire family.
>You fucking Americans are all the same. I'm happy the virus is wiping so many of you out.

>>4924413
So you don't wanna back up what you said? Then go kill yourself and take the rest of your shit bloodline with you, you white trash shit.

>>4924416
Yeah.

To anyone willing and able: what does "learn perspective" entail? Tell me PRECISELY WHAT EXERCISES I NEED TO DO and HOW I MUST DO THEM.

Imagine being this autistic.

>>4924421
If you spent half as much time googling it as you did raging you might have actually learned something by this point.

>>4924422
See look at this shit! I acknowledge how bad I am and I want to get better and I am ACTIVELY TRYING TO but nobody will tell me where my fault is. You keep saying "you have bad perspective" but do not tell me specifically what I must do to achieve good perspective.

>I hope someone doxxes you over this fucking site and kills your entire family.
>You fucking Americans are all the same. I'm happy the virus is wiping so many of you out.

>go kill yourself and take the rest of your shit bloodline with you, you white trash shit.

>Come and kick my ass then, I'll fucking murder you, faggot.

>>4924424
I've been "googling it" for two years and have done all the stuff you are suggesting. Like I said though, even if I draw A FUCKING SPHERE IN FRONT OF A CUBE, you people aren't satisfied?

At that point how do I even improve!? You aren't telling me.

>>4924426
Yeah boo hoo I'm threatening to defend myself if this asshole tries to "kick my ass" or whatever sperg shit he keeps boasting about.

>I'm threatening to defend myself

>>4924431
What are you even getting at? What is your role here?

>I hope someone doxxes you over this fucking site and kills your entire family.
>You fucking Americans are all the same. I'm happy the virus is wiping so many of you out.

>go kill yourself and take the rest of your shit bloodline with you, you white trash shit.

>Come and kick my ass then, I'll fucking murder you, faggot.

>I'm threatening to defend myself

Perspective.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

How. Begin. Learn?

People. Not. Satisfied. With. Basic. Studies.

How. I. Make. People. Satisfied?

I'm refreshing this page every 2 seconds in vain, hoping someone will answer me, but you assholes just keep quoting things I've said without any further context.

what the honest to god fucking hell

>I'm not a beginner you fucking retard. I have told you this multiple times.

>Not a beginner. Stop saying that.

>I acknowledge how bad I am and I want to get better

>>4924438
"Perspective.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

How. Begin. Learn?

People. Not. Satisfied. With. Basic. Studies.

How. I. Make. People. Satisfied?"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Type. Answer. To. Above. Inquiry.

>>4915198
>I have been drawing for two years straight
no you havent. fuck off and rope yourself lying cunt. your op image doesn't even show good mechanical line control let alone 2 years of practice. fuck off

>>4924440
Answer. Not. Sufficient.

Please. Type. Sufficient. Answer.

>>4924443
>I hope someone doxxes you over this fucking site and kills your entire family.
>You fucking Americans are all the same. I'm happy the virus is wiping so many of you out.

>go kill yourself and take the rest of your shit bloodline with you, you white trash shit.

>Come and kick my ass then, I'll fucking murder you, faggot.

>I'm threatening to defend myself

>>4924443
you wasted 2 years. go work at mcdonalds

>>4924450
"

"Perspective.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

How. Begin. Learn?

People. Not. Satisfied. With. Basic. Studies.

How. I. Make. People. Satisfied?"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Type. Answer. To. Above. Inquiry.

"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

T
H
I
S

>>4924452

>>4924443
>>4924452
Anon, start with Perspective made easy and Marshall Vandruff, then after that you can go to the harder stuff, like Erik Olson and Scott Robertson.

You know what, I'm gonna listen to the guy who told me not to come to /ic/. I'm literally asking a bunch of short bus passengers for help with a complex issue.

>I hope someone doxxes you over this fucking site and kills your entire family.
>You fucking Americans are all the same. I'm happy the virus is wiping so many of you out.

>go kill yourself and take the rest of your shit bloodline with you, you white trash shit.

>Come and kick my ass then, I'll fucking murder you, faggot.

>I'm threatening to defend myself

What the fuck is happening in this thread?

>>4924456
oh nevermind this answer is good

ALL OF YOU, BE LIKE THIS GUY^^^

>>4924457
Okay bye retard.

>>4924461
aspergers having a chimpout because hes bad apparently

>>4924465
No; I'm having a chimpout because I'm asking a simple question that only ONE person has answered sufficiently while the rest of you throw a tantrum over nothing.

>>4924465
It's archive worthy for sure. A good example of how not to behave, at least it's entertaining.

>>4924456
He is going to buy perspective made easy, skim 2 pages, and then make a thread crying about how no one helped him. He can get the same information from Google with a small amount of effort, but here he is screaming his little head off.

>>4924470
Yeah, a good example of when someone asks a question to FUCKING ANSWER IT instead of being a fucking sperg about it.

>>4924463
>why is no one giving me an answer i can find in the sticky NOOOOOO IM SPERGING OUT NOOOOOOO
bro i would one hit drop your fucking 120lb untrained frame to the concrete you absolute piece of human garbage
a loomis thread died for this. begone

>>4924471
Dude I fucking know the rules of perspective. Give me a ruler and I can construct whatever 3D shit you want.

Seriously. Give me a building or pineapple or whatever the fuck to draw right now and I will do it.

Why can I NOT translate it to humans though?

>>4924472
You're the only sperg here, retard. Function like a normal human being and pick one of the tons of answers people have you to try incorporating into your work. Just try shit out, dumbass.

>>4924471
we already have a massive sticky with all the information you could ever need, the rest of /ic/ is just a crab trap to time-rape people who have no self control

>>4924474
You talk a lot of shit for someone who could probably stuff an entire 10pc inside his neck fat.

>>4924470
This is why we tell /beg/s to go to /beg/.
When they make their own threads they get too big for their britches and have a meltdown like this.

The most important fundie is humility.

>>4924476
I have been doing that since I made this thread. I literally posted two spheres, but you guys said "NO IT'S BAD YOU'RE BAD KYS LOL".

So I'm asking, what is the next regression after going from figure drawing to sphere drawing? Do I just draw individual dots at that point?

>>4924474
"untrained" yeah sure asshole come and find me so we can validate this claim of yours

fucking fatass

>>4924478
Remember that this guy couldn't even Google "how to draw in perspective".
There is zero chance he would have read the sticky. Better to tell him to kill himself.

>>4924479
it warms my heart knowing in 2 more years you will have made no further progress

>>4924482
read the sticky retard

>>4924485
here let me show you something

>>4924478
Don't humor him.
Just post reminders of his most egregious chimpouts.

>I hope someone doxxes you over this fucking site and kills your entire family.
>You fucking Americans are all the same. I'm happy the virus is wiping so many of you out.

>go kill yourself and take the rest of your shit bloodline with you, you white trash shit.

>Come and kick my ass then, I'll fucking murder you, faggot.

>I'm threatening to defend myself

>>4924485
there's your fucking perspective

can i move on now?

>>4924486
i accept this challenge and im gonna ship a drawing covered in my own shit to your house once ive made it, faggot

>>4924492
Thread ded from your autistic meltdown /beg/tard, go home

>>4924496
>a drawing covered in my own shit
Isn't that just any of your drawings?

>>4924489
sounds like something i would say desu except that i'm right

>>4924505
yeah solid shit is really good for shading you should try it oh wait your shit is probably liquid because of how fucking retarded you are

>>4924492
Why would anyone help you after:

>I hope someone doxxes you over this fucking site and kills your entire family.
>You fucking Americans are all the same. I'm happy the virus is wiping so many of you out.

>go kill yourself and take the rest of your shit bloodline with you, you white trash shit.

>Come and kick my ass then, I'll fucking murder you, faggot.

>I'm threatening to defend myself

>im gonna ship a drawing covered in my own shit to your house

?

>>4924500
Did you even look at the image I uploaded?

>>4924510
You didn't wanna help me before so what difference does it make?

And no, do NOT quote the things people said before that one asshole called me a sperg. I am specifically referring to this one incident that is currently happening, NOT anything that happened previously.

>>4924509
>oh wait your shit is probably liquid because of how fucking retarded you are

>>4924513
>I am specifically referring to this one incident that is currently happening, NOT anything that happened previously.
Tough shit.

>I hope someone doxxes you over this fucking site and kills your entire family.
>You fucking Americans are all the same. I'm happy the virus is wiping so many of you out.

>go kill yourself and take the rest of your shit bloodline with you, you white trash shit.

>Come and kick my ass then, I'll fucking murder you, faggot.

>I'm threatening to defend myself

>im gonna ship a drawing covered in my own shit to your house

wellp you cant delete old posts apparently

someone please nuke this shit

In this thread: autism.

>>4924526
You know what asshole at least im not a fucking "it's my style" faggot from deviantart ok??? Can you at least give me credit for acknowledging that there IS a huge problem here? Can you give me credit for not being a fucking weeaboo who does nothing but draw anime girls all day?

im genuinely the fuck surprised none of you have pulled the "it's just my style" shit with me

Put down your electronics op

>>4924551
What does this even mean and/or what relevant does it even have here???

relevance*

this samsung koreashit keyboard would be better used to wipe the dried shit from my nipples ffs

also fuck this gay site for not having an edit function

>>4924558
I thought you were going to leave?

>>4924572
I was but honestly, if I go and "study perspective," and I come back with my studies, you people are gonna say "you're doing it wrong," I'll ask "OK how do I do it right," and you'll tell me "go and study it."

It's a continuous loop that does not seem like it will ever end.

>>4924588
Do you have any concept of how embarrassing you are acting?

>>4924591
This does not address anything I said. Go and die, please.

>>4924594
You are a disgrace.

>>4924600
ditto

>I hope someone doxxes you over this fucking site and kills your entire family.
>You fucking Americans are all the same. I'm happy the virus is wiping so many of you out.

>go kill yourself and take the rest of your shit bloodline with you, you white trash shit.

>Come and kick my ass then, I'll fucking murder you, faggot.

>I'm threatening to defend myself

>im gonna ship a drawing covered in my own shit to your house

>>4924608
Yeah, this isn't the best place to come for actual help, I see...

>>4924613
Okay bye retard.

>>4924622
Why haven't you left?

>>4915198
Dude, your work is fine. You don't need to learn anything else, so don't let anyone here tell you otherwise.

>>4924891
Hi OP.

>>4915382
> These are pretty good for a two-year student
lolno

>>4915198
>I have been drawing for two years straight and I cannot, for the life of me, figure out how to draw humans.
4 yrs minimum, you're two years short

>I have spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on courses, and I have spent countless hours doing gesture drawings and other such studies, but I simply cannot figure out how to even BEGIN to understand the fundamentals of how to draw humans. I have been at this for TWO YEARS and have made ZERO progress in any of the fundamentals.
wasted your money that could have been useful if you saved it for times like this

>I'm able to draw objects, vehicles, buildings, interiors, etc just fine, but when it comes to organic matter, it's just impossible.
use rulers, and guidelines

>Can someone explain to me what I am doing wrong here and how to fix it? And before you say it, YES, I DO gesture drawings every single day, I DO study anatomy, I DO use references all the time, etc. Those things are NOT the issue. There is clearly ONE unidentified problem that I have, but I cannot figure out what it is.
you lack confidence and passion

>Here is some of the garbage I've been trying to do. For the love of god, someone please help me.
just quit, go find another hobby

>>4925162
>trying to help OP after his meltdown

>>4924891
This is even worse!

>>4925174
It wasn't a meltdown; it was a reasonable reaction to how you people were acting.

>>4925162
What is "confidence and passion" and how do I acquire it? Be more specific.

And "just quit" isn't advice.

The point i was try to make last night is that even if I study perspective or fundamentals or whatever, you people STILL tell me "you're doing it wrong."

I'm asking this: how do I do it right?

>>4925494
you have doubt in you, you're not confident that your skills will not make it and that's BS

put more effort and heart to it, your doing fine, use tools and reference, go to youtube for tips in drawing, it will help you

>>4925627
You know what fine, I'll admit that last night things got out of hand. You guys were unnecessarily hostile with me but yeah, I myself may have continued it a bit.

What you are suggesting to me is to go to YouTube, find some tips, use those tips, come back here, and have you people tell me once again "you're doing it wrong."

>>4925631
You just need more practice anon, there is no instant fix. You're doing the Vilppu shit just do that, finish it, take some life drawing if you can, draw a lot more, you'll get there.

Every person that ever learned to draw people went through the "this is fucking impossible" stage.

>>4925636
See, I AM doing the Vilppu stuff, coming back with my studies, and you people are telling me "NO IT'S WRONG YOU'RE BAD YOU SUCK."

>>4925640
Your circular forms figure is miles beyond what you had done previously. I would stop posting here for advice because you're being trolled (or at least post literally anywhere else also).

>>4925640
Your gestures look better too. Seriously stop listening to these crabs just keep going.

>>4925660
That's not what the other people said.

>>4925631
>>4925640
from how I see in your drawings, I can tell your artworks are not expressive but rather crude and flat, either you have BS reasons in your head why you draw or you're desperate for compliments not realizing the mistakes you made in your drawings while your ego keeps you in that delusional limbo

if you're doing this, cut it out, find a different hobby that is suited for you since no amount of tutorials, how-to-draw books, youtube videos, and coming here in ic to deluge yourself of negative criticism you can't handle is of no help to you, just stop

>>4925479
>>>>>reasonable reaction

>I hope someone doxxes you over this fucking site and kills your entire family.
>You fucking Americans are all the same. I'm happy the virus is wiping so many of you out.

>go kill yourself and take the rest of your shit bloodline with you, you white trash shit.

>Come and kick my ass then, I'll fucking murder you, faggot.

>I'm threatening to defend myself

>im gonna ship a drawing covered in my own shit to your house

>>4925712
>your art is not expressive

Stop being so vague. How do I become expressive? I'm getting desperate here, man.

>>4925734
Yeah that's reasonable given what those assholes said to me. Did you even read what THEY said or are you just homing in on what I said?

>>4925660
No one was crabbing him. People tried to help him over and over again, and he would just get defensive and ignore advice, and then he had this massive freakout. Read the thread, retard.

>>4925738
Again, you didn't read the bad shit they said to me, nor did you read my attempts to actually take the advice. You're a cynical retard.

>>4925736
Are you OP or something? Nobody said anything close to "I hope someone doxxes you and murders your whole family" to him.
You are fucking delusional.

>>4925745
He said he hopes someone kicks my ass. That's just as bad IMO.

>>4925745
Oh fuck, it is OP. He literally popped back in to say "I was being perfectly reasonable, nothing weird about my actions at all".
0 fucking self-awareness.

>>4925749
See? You're not even paying attention to me nor are you thinking about the situation rationally.

I want the ability to DRAW. A. FUCKING. CIRLCE. ON. A. PIECE. OF. PAPER

I'm not trying to become a fucking Olympian or doctor or top-level engineer or some other ridiculously difficult feat. I'm trying to PUT. PENCIL. ON. PAPER. AND. MAKE. A. THING.

You assholes are so fucking delusional you can't tell me how to draw so much as a fucking line without going full retard and telling me to learn perspective or something.

Like, A ONE DIMENSIONAL OBJECT WONT HAVE MUCH IN THE WAY OF PERSPECTIVE, OK? Jesus.

I am trying to learn perspective.

I am having trouble with it.

I come here and ask how to do it.

You don't tell me HOW to learn it; you just tell me to learn it.

You assholes are the problem.

>>4925747
Are you an ESL or something?
Saying someone needs a "kick in the ass" does not mean the same thing as "someone needs their ass kicked".
It's a figure of speech akin to someone getting a wakeup call.

>That's just as bad IMO
Even if it DID mean that, "I hope you get beat up" is nowhere near the same level of "I hope your whole family gets murdered".

You are completely incapable of recognizing your own faults and failures. As such, you will never improve as an artist, or a human being.

>meltdown part 2

>>4925767
If someone tries to hurt me, I'm not gonna just let them get away with it; I'm gonna kill them and do the same to their family members. Disagree with it all you want but it's the only true punishment for that sort of thing.

And miss me with that bullshit at the bottom. I'm not interested in you trying to be a therapist; I'm interested in fixing my art so that you people are satisfied by it.

>>4925762
You aren't trying to learn shit you liar.
If you were, you would have specific questions about something you were confused about, and not this unfocused baby rage.

>>4925770
That's not what "meltdown" means you literal sperg.

>I hope someone doxxes you over this fucking site and kills your entire family.
>You fucking Americans are all the same. I'm happy the virus is wiping so many of you out.

>go kill yourself and take the rest of your shit bloodline with you, you white trash shit.

>Come and kick my ass then, I'll fucking murder you, faggot.

>I'm threatening to defend myself

>im gonna ship a drawing covered in my own shit to your house

>If someone tries to hurt me, I'm not gonna just let them get away with it; I'm gonna kill them and do the same to their family members

What a psychopath holy shit.

>>4925777
You know what? I DO have a few specific questions.

1.) What differentiates the circles/cylinders/etc I drew from 3D versions of those same objects? I'm trying to draw forms and I'm doing everything I can to make them form-y but it isn't working. What can I do to alter them to make them look like forms?

2.) Why are some people saying that this is good for 2 years while others are saying it isn't?

3.) Could there be a physical problem here? A mechanical problem with the way I'm holding the pencil or the way I'm sitting, for example?

>>4925791
Stop misusing these words please. I'm not a psychopath. I'm not expressing any psychopathic traits. Self-defense isn't a psychopathic thing to do.

>>4925794
>I'm not a psychopath
You're a high functioning pyschopath.

>>4925792
No one wants to help you anymore. Your spaz attacks have made quick work of that.

>>4925798
I didn't do anything that wasn't justified. Get your head out of your ass.

>>4925794
Murdering someone's whole family isn't self-defense, psycho.
How many puppies have you killed?

>>4925796
You didn't even read what I said.

>>4925800
>psycho doesn't see anything wrong with his actions

>>4925801
Everything can be avoided as long as nobody tries to physically harm me, which nobody should even be doing to begin with. You people need to understand that physically attacking someone is a BAD thing while self defense is a GOOD thing.

>>4925808
OK whatever, you people keep being delusional all you want. Just leave me out of it.

To any sane people here: answers to my questions would be nice.

>>4925809
Murdering someone's whole family isn't self-defense, psycho.
Weren't you going to leave /ic/?

>>4925810
Why would a sane person want to talk to a psychopath?

>>4925814
Good question. In that case, I should stop talking to you fucking nutcases.

>>4925816
You said you were going to leave like 3 times last night. Yet here you are again having another mental breakdown after bump limit.

>I hope someone doxxes you over this fucking site and kills your entire family.
>You fucking Americans are all the same. I'm happy the virus is wiping so many of you out.

>go kill yourself and take the rest of your shit bloodline with you, you white trash shit.

>Come and kick my ass then, I'll fucking murder you, faggot.

>I'm threatening to defend myself

>im gonna ship a drawing covered in my own shit to your house

>If someone tries to hurt me, I'm not gonna just let them get away with it; I'm gonna kill them and do the same to their family members

>>4925822
Being angry in response to being treated like shit isn't having a meltdown or breakdown or tantrum or whatever word you people wanna misuse.

>>4925825
>psychopath doesn't see anything wrong with his actions

Last time I'm gonna attempt to ask a question:

How draw sphere? If sphere bad, how make it not bad?

>>4925831
No one wants to help you after your behavior.

>>4925837
Yeah, you treat me like shit, I do the same to you. Who would've guessed?

Kill yourself.

>>4924240
Friendly reminded that this is where it all started. Get mad at him, not me.

>>4925852
No, this is where it started:

>>4923999
>>4924027
>>4924048
>>4924051
>>4924083

You got simple advice, then freaked out, then got called a sperg, then you got increasingly more violent and angry.

No one wants to help you when you act like that.
This is your fault.

>>4925844
Nobody treated you like shit before you started having your meltdown, retard.

>>4925861
>you got called a sperg
>your fault

Yeah OK buddy.

Yknow, I can admit that yeah, I got really stressed and kinda hysterical about this because I was really frustrated, but for god's sake, at least acknowledge I didn't attack anyone until someone else fired the first shot.

Like, one of the things you quoted is LITERALLY me trying to put the advice to good use.

And no I'm not going to fucking give up just because you fucking pessimistic assholes are telling me to.

I'll keep at this shit as long as I need to, even if It takes ten years to draw even a single line.

>>4925870
You got called a sperg after sperging out.
So yes, it is your fault.

>>4925885
And I told you guys to kill yourself because you deserve to be told that.

YEAH HAHA SEE MOTHERFUCKER I CAN DO THAT TOO LOL

>>4925909
Okay psycho.

I feel like taking OP under my wing so he can show the rest of /ic/ who is boss.

OP, if you're serious about improving maybe we can improve together. Email me at wg.too12@gmail.com

>>4925950
>I hope someone doxxes you over this fucking site and kills your entire family.
>You fucking Americans are all the same. I'm happy the virus is wiping so many of you out.

>go kill yourself and take the rest of your shit bloodline with you, you white trash shit.

>Come and kick my ass then, I'll fucking murder you, faggot.

>I'm threatening to defend myself

>im gonna ship a drawing covered in my own shit to your house

>If someone tries to hurt me, I'm not gonna just let them get away with it; I'm gonna kill them and do the same to their family members

>>4925950
I'm not stupid.

>>4925955
Oh? I'm currently taking a mentorship I paid $1500 for and was going to share you the content but suit yourself. You lost your chance.

>>4925955
Could have fooled us.

>>4925957
Ok fine I will accept your blatantly deceptive offer. Email me at alecbaldwin@analfeces.ru

>>4925968
Nope. You blew your only chance. I have -0 tolerance for d/ic/ks and the trust bar. Suffer for another 2 years.

>>4915198
>Can someone explain to me what I am doing wrong here and how to fix it? And before you say it, YES, I DO gesture drawings every single day, I DO study anatomy, I DO use references all the time, etc. Those things are NOT the issue
uhhhh but do you do actual studies? like photo studies or life drawings?
you're doing all these more advanced studies while not having the most fundamental skill, which is the ability to draw what you see.

all your other studies will be of lower quality and depth if you lack this basic skill.
you don't need to master photorealistic copying, but first question how far away you are from that level. can you even make a study that closely resembles the likeness of the model?

>>4925976
Yeah I'm not gullible. Go shit yourself.

>>4925978
I can't, which is why I'm trying to draw basic 3D shapes like spheres, squares, and so on. However, you people aren't even satisfied with that. Where do I even go from here if you people aren't satisfied with these very basic studies?

>>4925978
>trying to help someone after he has multiple meltdowns over the course of 2 days

>>4926000
I didn't, but even if I did, I'm not exempt from receiving advice.

>>4926026
>I hope someone doxxes you over this fucking site and kills your entire family.
>You fucking Americans are all the same. I'm happy the virus is wiping so many of you out.

>go kill yourself and take the rest of your shit bloodline with you, you white trash shit.

>Come and kick my ass then, I'll fucking murder you, faggot.

>I'm threatening to defend myself

>im gonna ship a drawing covered in my own shit to your house

>If someone tries to hurt me, I'm not gonna just let them get away with it; I'm gonna kill them and do the same to their family members

>>4926047
Yeah OK asshole I understand, I said some bad shit to someone who said bad shit to me. I get it.

>>4926054
>who said bad shit to me
lmao
No you still don't get it.

>>4926058
Giving me harsh criticism is OK. Calling me a sperg is completely unwarranted.

>>4925980
>which is why I'm trying to draw basic 3D shapes like spheres, squares, and so on.
the thing you're lacking is an observational ability. it's not about constructing things, that's not really the same skill.
the eyes and its ability to catch issues is probably the most fundamental skill to have for an artist.

also you seem to lack patience. the patience to work slowly through all the issues in a drawing. anybody can draw a box in perspective if they use a ruler and do everything step-by-step. it's the same with a circle.
if you can't do it it's because you rush all the details and just hope for the best.
that's probably also the reason why you can't do decent studies. studies require concentration and a lot of observing and measuring.

sorry to say but that's what drawing is really like: you are always looking and looking and looking before, after and while you make your strokes.
if something doesn't look right you fucking erase it and then do it again. and if you can't do it then use reference to help fill in the gaps.
but are you making the most of your references? the answer is no, it's impossible for you. because you can't even capture get the likeness in studying a model so how can you hope to get anything out of the reference?
so what happens is you will encounter all these "visual problems" and you have no hope of solving them with the help of refs because you are unable to perceive their real form.

>>4926066
So what do I do? Get a ball as a reference and stare at it and try to draw it until I can make a perfect circle? How DO I train this observational ability? You are telling me I need to do it, and yes you are correct, but HOW?

>>4926065
Sperging out was unwarranted. Threatening to murder someone, and then saying you hope their whole family dies was fucking unwarranted.
You are a psychopath and you are beyond help.

>>4926084
Self defense =/= murder.

>>4926071
why a ball? do it with a face.
or something that interests you.
but i think faces are good practice targets for beginners.

don't just use hard lines, try it with a pencil. maybe try to shade it as well.

>>4926086
Murdering someone's whole family isn't self-defense, psycho.