/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

3) You're NGMI

None, the pros know perfectly that 99% of the faggots who get into drawing will NGMI, when they say "I just studied 100 heads" they perfectly know you fucks are too lazy and probably will not even draw 5 heads, no need to give ill advice when you knoe before hand the competition are retarded weebs, underage fags and low IQ, just look at this board, years "grinding" and they cant even figure out basic lighting/perspective, how can they be a threat to a pro?

>>4882357
the pros still don't think they're that good, but everyone tells them they are so they pretend to believe it

>>4882357
1) is true for almost all of them, I don't think there are many of 2), at least with the motivation you wrote there. There are definitely a lot of 2) that are out to make a quick buck by scamming people with fake advice.

#1
The Dunning Kruger effect doesn’t only affect low skill individuals, high skill individuals don’t realize how much better they are than normal people, it’s why a lot of high skill teachers basically just pull a figure out of their ass and then go “you see, it’s simple” while low skill students have no idea what the fuck that was even meant to show.

>>4882357
I think most pros started drawing when they were kids and maybe went to art school where they had guided instruction. They don't know how they got good because they always drew and had someone teaching them.
Most of us are going to start beg and alot start art at a relatively late age. If much rather learn from someone who went from beg to pro in their thirties (self taught) than someone who always drew since they were a kid.

>>4882357
The pros know how they got good and they are giving out fantastic advice.

You simply are a retarded monkey incapable of anything other than menial labor. KYS you have bad dumb genes.

>>4882410
post work

>>4882357
talented people can be pretty shit at giving advice, especially if they started young and just kept drawing until it turned into a job.
imagine trying to explain to someone how to walk or write, it's the same kind of thing. i could never teach someone how to ski b/c i learned to do it before i could even piss straight. but i could definitely teach you how to snowboard. it's the same kind of thing. people who started late or who were really shit before they got gud tend to be better at telling you how to do the same b/c they had to think much more consciously about learning

3) Teaching is a different skillset from making art. If you want useful shit from artists ask them about themselves. That's all they have and the amount of correct information depends on their level of self awareness. Successful artist who built their own talent through years of labor and fuck ups are not in possession of some secret talisman they're keeping from you.

>>4882357
i feel like many pros just give the advice they wish they had given earlier in their artistic path

You stupid fucking frogposter, so many pros have put out all of their information in the forms of books/classes and their entire artistic bodies of work are available for study. There is no secret they're keeping, you're not "the competition" and they aren't doing anything to spite you. You're just a retard who can't understand the information given to you and improve from it

>>4882357
Once you've watched enough tutorials, read enough books, and listened to enough interviews, you realize everyone's saying the same shit. I've paid for a course, hoping I'd get hidden knowledge, but it was just the same shit, said in a different way. The actual answer is that pros are telling us plain and simple what we need to do, but were not doing our part. After hearing time and time again, "go from big to small, starting with basic 3D forms and then refining", we think we know it all. But this is further from the truth. We are "familiar" with the material. We do not "know" the material. It's the same as listening to your math teacher in class and thinking you know everything vs actually doing the test, and realizing you know nothing. It's called the illusion of competence. Remember when Will Weston's course was dropped here and everyone complained it was shit and taught nothing new? Same shit from a different mouth, but it doesnt mean his words are useless. Theres a lot you can take from there, but everyone just binged it without practicing slowly, one concept at a time.

>>4882357
It's definitely 1. There are pros that still aren't sure or don't how to improve.

Neither. Go draw.

>>4882491
\board

>>4882491
Irrelevant to your comment but when did this stupid frogposter thing start? I didn’t use 4chan for quite a while. It’s almost sad that people on here now hate pepes. I get that it’s overused and expanded beyond the site but still

>>4882491
>hurr durr
Them putting “all of their information” (never happened, btw) into a book doesn’t mean that information is objectively what formed them, it’s merely what they now believe is helpful information or an efficient method of learning, or in a more cynical reasoning, just something they can sell as a product.

>>4882580
>when did this start
>pepes

>>4882585
T.beg

>>4882589
I’m not talking about pepes, I’m talking about people saying “stupid frogposter” everytime someone posts one. Did you even read the comment or do you just reply to things at random?

>>4882590
>t. phoneposting newfag with nothing of worth to add

>>4882594
>not only a beg, but a pretend oldfag too
And this is why you will forever be a /beg/shitter.

>>4882603
>no argument
typical phonenigger

>>4882357
The pros are incredibly transparent when it comes the amount of work it took them to make it, but people like you'll just refuse to believe them because you don't want to give up your sloth like leisure for anything that isn't video games, and your next orgasm. Sorry buddy, two hours a day of won't cut it, and dodging fundamentals just won't do.

>>4882357
Both

>>4882681
>The pros are incredibly transparent when it comes the amount of work it took them to make it
lel you only think this because you limit your sample size to art teachers who have a vested interest in you sticking with them as long as possible
on the other hand you have people who tremendously downplay any effort on their part, like frazetta claiming he learned to draw in one night by copying bridgman or pretending he has no clue what rabbits look like and then drawing one on the spot like he did it a million times before

>>4882701
What it actually sounds is that you broke your neck to find anecdotes of pros being disengoues to justify why you not putting in the effort to learn yourself. Do you really need Fezeta to tell to how many hours he put in each day, month, and years before he got good when other are
honest about their shit? You know he fucking busted his ass to get to his level so why are you playing this game?

>>4882925
>the pros are transparent
>no they are not, look at possibly the most iconic and defining artist of the modern era
>that doesn’t count, look at this literallywho art teacher
ok fag

>>4882357
1, every time. it also applies to rich people, and people that got lucky in every field

>>4882681
he also said he never used reference in his entire life, but it turns out that a few figures in his paintings were straight up copied from other people's paintings.
there was an article about it but i lost it, does that sound familiar to you?

>>4882970
fuck shit meant for
>>4882701

>>4882957
>one great artist lied so all great artist are liars
Look fag, I already acknowledged that what he was disengoues as fuck, but he made his legacy, and we can surmise that he didn't do it by sounding his cock for 10 hours a day. If it really bothers you that he secretive about his work ethic then look to another artist who wasn't. I swear too many of you dummies are hung up over the wrong shit when you should all be drawing.

>>4882357
3. Teaching is a skill of its own

>>4883075
this is in no way a rare thing, fuck off retard

>>4882357
3 the information they're giving out is incomplete

>>4883157
You can remain NGMI all your life because some artist lied about their process need to blame them for why your art sucks all you like, I'm going to be drawing for another 6 hours. Have fun with that.

>>4882357
Neither.

3) Resentment leads to /begs/ assigning malice and ignorance where there is none.
4) /begs/ are kept where they are by how mesmerizing their own projection is.

>>4883437
that would be 1)

>>4882522
great post

>>4882522
shit post
everybody has its own method. arts is not a recipe, or a math formula

>>4882522
Absolute facts
>>4883801
And some recipes are clearly far better than otherwise their wouldn't so many shitters obsessed with how the pros both alive and dead managed to do things.

>>4883818
okay retard

>>4882970
It goes even deeper. He’d have photos taken of himself posing, use them as refs, hide them in a folder, and then deny it and say he only drew from imagination.

Frazetta literally downplayed everything he did even though he put way more effort into art than most people.

>>4882357
If there was a shortcut, you can bet one of them would've made a book about it and become a millionaire. I can think of no field of endeavor so sadly lacking in simple organization of its working principles. Nothing quite so hap-hazard, hit-or-miss, as the whole field of artistic endeavor.

>>4882479
>>4882522
these

>>4882357
the ngmi stay ngmi because they can't figure it out on their own / properly understand and put in practice genuine advice

>>4882357
>>4882701
>>4882701
>>4883825
mfw its true, fuck u frazetta u fucking crab:
Frank Frazetta would routinely insist that he “made everything up” and never used references or even did roughs: he would chide his friends like Wally Wood and Al Williamson, who kept extensive resource files, used models, and shot photos as part of their creative process. Dr. David Winiewicz (who is easily the Frazetta authority) recently posted an excerpt of an interview he did with Frank in which Fritz insisted he never used himself as a model despite the ample evidence to the contrary. “Of course he did,” Dave told me. That Frank used himself as a model and then denied it were both reflections of his vanity (and were also an aspect of the myth that aided in his marketing). As an athlete with movie-star good looks he was an excellent model for his heroes, he just didn’t want to admit that he thought so. Frazetta’s claims over the years added to the cult of personality that surrounded him and allowed the gullible to disparage other illustrators who didn’t “make all it up” or used models or photo reference. But the simple fact was that, regardless of his prodigious drawing skills and an enviable memory which allowed him to approximate things he’d seen almost at will…

Frank used reference.

He shot photos (he kept thick albums of he and his wife Ellie in all sorts of poses), owned and used an oversized Artograph that allowed him to project and trace his reference or comps onto his board, occasionally referenced the art of others, and created multiple roughs and thumbnails for virtually everything he drew and painted. (Cathy and I even produced a book of his comps called Rough Work.)

>>4883973
>trace his reference or comps onto his board, occasionally referenced the art of others

>>4882357
learning to draw isn't a very linear process. most people fumble their way through lots of study methods until they find their way there

>>4882414
THIS IS TRUE.

I started drawing since I can remember and now I struggle helping my students transform basic forms into actual refined objects, I don't know how to approach teaching and bridging that gap.

>>4883801
The methods people use are just a preference. It's stupid to believe you can never do x and are only limited to y in your entire lifetime. That's the same argument as "muh style"
And art literally is a recipe. Critiquing is literally saying, hey add more of this, less of that, and I want to see some more of this. Even if you're goal is to evoke an emotion, you have to follow a process. What do I want to achieve? How can I evoke that emotion through the design of the characters and environment? Warm colors will make me feel this way and cool colors will make me feel that way, so which is the best choice? It's a series of steps to achieve your end goal. Even experimental performance art wants to make you feel something specific and will use whatever they have to do that.

>>4883973
>>4883979
>all lies and deception
Good artists tend to be nice people, great artists are pieces of shit. Michelangelo did the same.

>>4884718
yeah, but michelangelo believed himself a shit painter
frazetta was all vanity

>>4884744
Didn't Michelangelo say painting was for /beg/ NGMIs?

>>4884747
That makes sense, since he finished sculpting pieta when he was 22. Compare that to 22 y.o. pros of today.

>>4884747
>unveils statue of David
>”SHOULD HAVE POSTED IN /BEG/ FAGGOT AN EXHIBITION DIED FOR THIS SAGE”

>>4884896
this is good for the board panel, or however its called, I forget

>>4882357
They don't remember anything but the fact that they grinded fundamentals at some point. Its all a hazy memory now and thats all they can tell you to do. Every once in a while they'll remember a book or course they used to learn them and recommend it but its still mostly forgotten.

>>4882357
I used to think that #2 was just paranoid nonsense but I've found that there is some truth to it after interacting with a lot of artists online. Not so much wrong advice on purpose but some really do crab on you with vague bullshit like "just practice lol" or "just look at youtube tutorials" and act very evasive when you press them for specifics about their process.

>>4884896
Nice. 10/10. Michaelangelo would have been top tier crabposter here.

>>4882593
People say "stupid frogposter" because the person is a frogposter who is also stupid. If you deleted every pepefaggot and their absolutely brainless posts, the level of discourse would improve across the entire website. If you're upset by this it's probably because you are also a dumb frogposter who doesn't understand why people fucking hate you

>>4882564
pretty sure you linked the wrong thing >>4882522 is the post that ends /ic/ as we know it.
if people read it.
which they won't

>>4887595
It’s an arbitrary reaction image. You just disagree with people and it gives you something else to tack on to feel like you’ve won. The thing is, if you feel the need to add something irrelevant on to your point to boost your argument like saying “stupid frogposter” you are a brainlet, and if you let people on the internet that you disagree with anger you in real life you are in the top 10% of retards on this site

>>4882357
The main secret pros don't want to share with you is that improvement comes solely from the intellect. It's not pretty calling your fans stupid retards who cannot improve no matter what will they try.

If a pro isn't a total shitbag, they'll be happy to give advice if they have time. It feels incredibly rewarding to help others however you can with something that was a huge struggle for you. There's no conspiracy, anons. Sadly you'll have to look for another reason to validate yourself for not trying.

>>4885166
That's literally all you need to know. Other things are hazy because they don't matter nearly as much. And even if they have perfect memory to recall every step they took, every practice routine for every day of their journey, you don't really need to know it. It was either something basic and obvious like 3 or 4 value thumbnail composition practice, a bunch of 30 second gestures, a life study of their coffee mug, anatomy studies with papa Vilppu etc. OR it was something personal to them like fan art from their favorite SNES game or a wounded knight in a beautiful garden or a space pirate riding a hoverbike...you get it. Shit that is particular to them that inspires them to create.

All you need to know is to study the fundamentals, guys. Everything else can't be spelled out for you. You have to discover it in the world and in yourself. Know that you ideally want to balance fundamental practice with personal imaginative work. But that's it. The rest is up to you.

Stop getting it in your head that there's a magic formula or that there is some secret information you're missing out on. If that news disheartens you enough to quit then quit because you're going to waste your time and everyone else's thinking that way. There's no guide out there that will hold your hand until you're a creative and successful artist. Those artists you admire that embody your idea of what a great artist is probably spent many many hours not sure what to do. But they mustered the courage and went in a direction. Trusting their instincts for what they thought was cool. They repeatedly did this while practicing fundies and they gradually shaped themselves and their art. GG.

>>4889686
I like to think that the OP isn't being serious but I know there are people that genuinely think this way because I used to be one of them. Its a waste of time, guys. Let it go. Practice fundamentals and try your best to hone your sense of "cool" with imaginative work and THINK. Nobody will do it for you. Be patient with yourself and don't worry if you have doubts about talent and whether you're NGMI or that you're doing it wrong. Everyone that "made it" felt this way really often along the way. Its normal. The only way you can properly fuck up is to wait around forever for some formula that doesn't exist.

Yeah nice blog post and maybe a waste of time. This is just something that I used to struggle with too and I know it sucks and its easy to lose hope at times. Hopefully some of you read this and it helps. You're gonna make it. Just stop being a child needing to be spoon fed everything. The fundamentals that are your building blocks are right there in front of you (Literally. Study from life, friends). Learn to grasp them and stack them with accuracy and show the world what shapes you find most pleasing. That's all art is.

t. a self-taught anon that makes a comfy living from his doodles and used to be shit.

>>4885170
Just practice, lol. Youtube tutorials are sometimes good also.

The specifics are for you to discover on your own. Not because its a secret but because LITERALLY ONLY YOU CAN DISCOVER THEM. They are yours and not locked away in someone else. Nobody sees the world quite the same way and nobody understands art in quite the same way. Find your way. Best of luck. Its hard because its worth it.

>>4889396
Actually read the posts attached to the "arbitrary reaction images" and you'll understand why there's enough of a trend to warrant an entire term for it. And again, if you actually read dumb frogposts and are incapable of seeing how autistic they are, you're part of the problem

>>4889701
>seething this much
>on a forum for chinese cartoons

It is an arbitrary reaction image. ‘Frogposters’ make no more retarded posts than all the other posters brainlet

>>4882522
>>4889348
/ic/ is doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over for all eternity

>>4882406
Yeah I can see that. Some of the best artists I know are horrible teachers. If you asked them for advice they’d just say “lol just study value and skeletal structure/muscles” when a /beg/ probably doesn’t even know how to study effectively or think in 3D yet.

>>4882522
This is true for sure. There’s no magic formula.

it's both