/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Is it possible to make a fortune without being born into high class?

There's your answer.

>>4824605
It is. Just extremely unlikely.

>>4824598
U can be a coomer artist or furry my guy.
And yeah if ur still in 20s you have a good shot at it. Just grind as much.

>>4824613
unlikely meaning most people wont work that hard, not get lucky

>>4824598
A very, very small percentage of art school graduates make a living in art. Even from the top tier schools like Art Center, Calartsz etc.

If anything, that encourages me in my self taught journey. Hard work Trump's everything.

Some art studios like Sixmorevodka are compromised of several self taught artists as well.

>>4824598
Really depends, if you want to get into working for actual businesses like concept art or whatever, you'll probably need a degree, but if you're just doing freelance/self employed art, you don't.
Asking if you need a degree to become a professional in a field that is inherently based on individual creativity is stupid, did the beatles go to music school to learn how to write songs?

>>4824598
The real blackpill is that having formsl education or not doesn't matter, lots of graduates never get anywhere. The only thing that matters is talent.

Imagine you're hiring for an art job and you can choose one of two ways to choose candidates:

One, you look at their job history, education, and subtle cultural cues like whether they have a ghetto name or piercings.

Or two, you look at their portfolio to get direct examples of their capabilities as an artist.

Imagine what kind of poorly-managed kafkaesque helljob would pick #1 against all reason. You don't want to work there. Degrees don't matter in commercial art.

>>4824671
luck matters far more than "hard work"

>>4824933
That wasn’t my question. People in art schools draw way more than self taught ones per day

>>4825037
>subtle cultural cues like whether they have a ghetto name or piercings
Ayo, I’m Devontrius Daquaan Jones III, and I got my muhfuggin crip squad name inked onto my cheekbones, how i supposed to get a job when they all owned by these racist crackas man?

The question is: who makes it in this industry?
Art students that grind sixteen hours a day, or a self taught man with a fulltime job merely drawing four hours each day?

>>4824598
If it means anything to full time workers who do art as a hobby, I'm in a pretty competitive field in the air force which demands a lot of knowledge upkeep during downtime, but I'm still able to make money off porn commissions on the side. It's still just side hustle money, but it's enough that I can spend it on extravagant bullshit like computer parts, car stuff, furniture, etc. while my main work money goes into my savings.

>>4825325
How much time do you dedicate for drawing each day?

>>4824598
The best artists I know are self taught or graphic designers. They draw better than the ones I know from art schools.

>>4824598
actually it's more like being self taught is the only way to do it at all. do you people like, actually think you'll just absorb information if someone tells you how to do something instead of thinking about how it works for yourself? everyone teaches themselves through reiterating what they learn around them. and you have the internet. nobody here has an excuse other than being lazy, not having time, or being literally mentally retarded.

>>4824598
What does youth have to do with anything?
Do you think art directors will look at your portfolio and say "this is amazing, but he's just so fucking OLD"?

>>4825190
No it doesn't.

>>4825037
>>4825258
Why would it matter if they have a ghetto name or piercings? If their portfolio is good then their portfolio is good.

>>4825425
Self-learning in the art industry is more promoted than art school. In fact, it tends to be seen as a more admirable thing to do than going to art school.

>>4824598
Yes you can demotivational-fag

>>4825190
>>4824671
Luck favors people who do things. If you never do things, you won't be "in shape" to grab luck by the horns when it approaches and make good use of it.

Hard work is not a ticket to success, it's training for when success passes by.

The grass is always greener. Self-taught artists seethe because art students get more time to dedicate to art and connections. Art students seethe because self-taught artists take their jobs without going into debt.

>>4825711
You hit the nail perfectly. You can't capitalize on your luck if you don't have the skills. Imagine a writer being given the chance to publish a book but he writes at the level of a 4th grader; that publisher will rescind their offer really quick.

>>4824598
You can't reference 40 pages a month on things that don't exist

>>4825772
yeah you can lol
stop being a retard

>>4825711
This. You are not guaranteed or owed success, but you’d best maximize your chances.

>>4825772
yes you can. it's the only way to achieve it

>>4824933
>if you want to get into working for actual businesses like concept art or whatever, you'll probably need a degree
no moron, you don't!

>>4824933
Degrees mean nothing. Its all about who you know and how good your work is as well as if you can do everything on time.

>>4825772
From what I can see in that page at least-
Chick in robe
Cracked up landscape
Rock formation
Sunset + horizon over water
Explosion
Rubble
Clouds
Naked chick in with glasses
floating hair

All things that exist and you can find reference for online, nevermind stuff the artist probably knows well enough to need minimal reference for i.e. anatomy and such.

>>4825711
Favorite way I've heard it worded is "The guy who won the lottery got lucky, but he still had to buy a ticket first"

>but instead want a realistic portrayal of the current landscape
nepotism

>>4825285
Lmao 16

>>4824598
>Is it even possible to become a professional in this industry when you are self taught?
Yes, you either gotta be really good, make the right friends or just get a sizeable social media following.
I have seen plenty of interviews and panels with rando artists who landed jobs at big companies even though they where self taught.
Even for the guys who went to collage they eventually had to learn different new programs and methods on their own. (mostly talking about 3d stuff and VFX industry)

>>4825037
>Or two, you look at their portfolio to get direct examples of their capabilities as an artist.
just saw this vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yD_yhmcH5A
the other day where game environment artists talk about the need to tailor the Portfolio to the studio you want to work at, meaning if you want to work on the next Gears of War make art for your portfolio that would fit in the Gears universe and not in Viva Pinata then show it to them.

>>4825464
I think his point is that it's very unlikely that it would be good in the first place

I went to culinary school with a 40 year old professional artist, needless to say but he was too old for that kind of a career change.
He said it was getting boring for him working from home all the time. Anyhow, guy was amazing. He showed us sculptures he did on contract of Slash from Guns N' Roses, Rob Halford, Tod McFarland characters from Spawn, watches he had designed, cartoons he had drawn, all with links to websites where you could purchase said items. Apparently when a company pays you to make this stuff the person you're drawing/sculpting has to personally approve it.
Anyhow, I asked him how he actually managed to do this for a living. He said "I needed a job and I lied on my resume". He sat down at an art studio, told the owners "yea, I can do that", then when they gave him a project he said to the person next to him "hey I have no idea what I'm doing how do I do this". Thirty years later and hes still a professional artist because he lied on a resume.

>>4824598
Of course it is possible. I don't understand these threads. Being in art school isn't even always an advantage, really depends on the school and the person. You sure as fuck need a certain amount of luck, but don't you for everything else too? Skill, knowledge and being able to "sell your self" (aka not being a screeching autist) are needed but then again, it's needed if you're out of art school too
I've never had any formal art education and still work in the industry (game design). At this time and age there is no knowledge in universities you can't get from other sources, all art schools do is decide for you what you can/should learn and they collect this data. In other words, you gotta put in the effort and draw, instead of lamenting about others "born with the silver spoon"

>>4827195
>need to tailor the Portfolio to the studio you want to work at

Exactly what I mean by not being an autist. Half of the job is convincing them you got what they're looking for. I've seen a ton of young people coming from schools with nice names on them waving a portfolio with their super detailed complicated fancy trad paintings while applying for concept artist positions. Nobody cares if you can draw a perfect cute face, I wanna see your 2032421487 ideas of medieval swords and loot boxes.

The great advantage self taught artists have over snob school artists is that they usually understand the practical side a lot better. What you made is a product you're trying to sell and you can only sell things you see a demand for. Especially young folks thend to think they just need to do something fancy and suddenly people will (or at least should) start to want to buy it, but that's not how market work, and art is nothing different from any other trade. That seems to be a hard pill to swallow for many who think being an artist is some ethereal form of existence

>>4824598
Of course it is. Why wouldn't it.

>>4824671
>>4824613
>>4825190
>>4825437
>>4825711
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LopI4YeC4I

>>4827241
>then when they gave him a project he said to the person next to him "hey I have no idea what I'm doing how do I do this". Thirty years later and hes still a professional artist because he lied on a resume
Ok, this is based

>>4824598
>tfw I am 30
My odds are pretty much nill to be competitive.
Feels bad man.

>>4829687
I still can’t get over how many old fags are on this board, meanwhile I’m one of the few zoomers that isn’t pure /asg/ tier retard

>>4829691
I guess old losers like me are just vocal.

>>4829718
Nah, if you look at the average tart on 4chan, you’ll see the bar for not being a loser (at least by this place’s standards) are very low

>>4829687
I'm an feel like I'm finally intelligent, patience, resourceful, and passionate enough to put my all into a becoming a good artist. I got to dick around as a shitty kid and learn all of the harsh lessons of life in my youth, and have the discipline and work ethic to know what it takes to succeed and how resist the temptation to fuck it up on split second decisions and peer pressure. Feels great man.

>>4829725
Good. One need to use any advantage they have or can get.

>>4829724
That is true. I just don't even feel I exist at this point. I low-key envy weird skitzos who at least do something with their lives and are noticed by others for it. All the things I didn't do because it would have been cringe. meh /personal blog

>>4824605
So no. Thread over

>>4824598
That picture goes to show, the only "correct" standard in art is reality

>>4825772
A visual library is just a mental library of references you've more or less memorized.

>>4825772
Manga and anime artists have access to really good reference books about pretty much everything. They have a lot of those. On the other hand, wish I had the nippon coins and moonrune skills to buy and hoard them.

>>4829797
More importantly they have assistants who they task with getting references when they're not doing things like drawing backgrounds

>>4829817
Yes. While I still find the super human worker idea a good romantic ideal to aspire too, things that are there to help, are there for a reason.

>>4829824
Yes, wheelchairs are there to aid those that can't use their legs. Reference is there to help those unable to use their brain. :^)
>>4829817
Do they really? Most create a draft with a rough idea of the layout/environments prior to finding any background reference. Every artist aside Asano Inio featured in Manben works that way. Inio goes and location hunts his story first then fits his characters into the setting.

>>4824598
>I mean, you are competing against thousands of young artists out of art school that grind hard and are eager.
This is simply not true, have you seen art schools?
It is a joke.
I dropped out of an illustration program after 3 years and mad more progress in 3 months of self study

>>4824598
From my pov (self-taught) it's kinda just throwing spaghetti at the wall. You do a lot of work that you're satisfied with, and you spread it everywhere, and you try and make cool stuff with cool people and eventually stuff... idk, I don't want to say "falls into your lap" but a lot of success is genuinely just showing up, doing good work, being pleasant to work with, and staying patient. The rest is just a big dumb number's game, and stuff either works out or it doesn't. I know that's callous, esp coming from my position, but that's basically just it. Art is a terrible career choice. Everyone knows that. You do it because it's all you want, it's all you're good at, or maybe you just got lucky. Idk.

I think the scary thing about this industry (probably all industries to some degree) is that it's just dumb luck. You're probably already doing all the things you're supposed to do. Pursue it because it's something that, even if it doesn't work out, it was still worth pursuing just for the chance of getting something out of it. That way at least you won't be completely disappointed.

The fact that I made x or y thing and that worked out was luck. Obviously there's a baseline skill level, but it's not that much. You can focus on all the hyper technical stuff but most people don't notice or care about that because you have to have an artist's eye to notice that stuff in the first place.

Anyways:

Make a lot of stuff that you like
Spread it across multiple people
Find other people who make stuff you like, and try make cool stuff with them
Show up and do your work on time
Time + luck

And that's it, I guess. Again, this is a heinously dumb career choice. I don't recommend it, but that's basically how it's done.

>>4824605
It's not who you're born to,
it's who you hang out with.

>>4830074
Pyw

>>4829725
Was this text generated by a shitty AI? The grammar is there but no matter how much I read it it’s incomprehensible

>>4824598
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqhhnmXFRYo

>Why can't you see that a life in art and a life of mimicry
It's the same thing?!

artfags called the fuck out

>>4824598
That's a dumb question if I ever heard one.
Of course a self-taught artist can get fame for their work, especially if they work hard at it and are willing to accept critique.

>>4830218
Too true. You don't improve if you hang out in a hugbox or let the crabs drag you down to the bottom of the bucket.
Lol that sounded emo

>>4825325
based, you are planning on retiring early?

>>4824598
>Is it even possible to
Yes. Anything is possible

>>4824598
Define "professional" for you.
>getting your work into esteemed galleries
Probably no
>making enough commission money to live off your art
Yes, absolutely