/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>4794405
Hard

>>4794407
Round

>>4794408
Brush

>>4794408
Brush

>>4794405
>Nicolaides
who?

Nicolaides looks beg. How am I supposed to trust this guy for what he says is 450+ hours of my life when his art, which should be an example of what is possible for me to at least get half as good as if I follow his method, looks beg?

contours don’t exist visually in reality
objects obviously have contours
don’t be fucking retarded
a silhouette isn’t an actual physical thing, it’s a concept that describes a 2d shape of a 3d object
same with contours, it’s a concept that describes the outer limits of a complex 3d form from a certain angle
also, every single art teaching method is an immensely flawed attempt to externalise the teacher’s internalised understanding in order to make it easy to teach a bunch of retards at once and offload the responsibility onto them so that when it doesn’t work they can point them to some part of it and say “you need to study this again until you get it, I gave you everything you need” instead of having to get them there themselves
autistically following a program is what gets you stuck, you learn by doing

Isn't the vilppu idea that you are supposed to ignore the contour entirely though? Like if you look at a face and construct it using shapes which are accurate to what you're seeing then the contours are going to be completely different, but the constructed image should share the likeness.

Is there just two completely different schools of drawing that have very little overlap? One that's very observational and kind of similar to a photo copy machine where you copy contours and try to capture the exact image that you are seeing with your eyes and the other which is based on deconstructing what you're seeing with your imagination and reconstructing it on the page? Essentially like a camera vs a 2D version of a 3D modeling program

>>4794446
--->
>>4794433

Nicolaides is a hack.

>>4794446
the construction meme is relatively new
here’s the thing: it’s not a drawing tool, it’s an analytical tool
it’s there to make transferring and receiving understanding of a complex matter easier, especially in the advent of a need to do so in an environment of a full classroom
you will see people try to claim the old masters drew that way, but you will also see every other retard with “the true way to draw”. just in NMA you have Vilppu and Huston “proving” how the same people used their method. venture further and you get complete oddballs like Mattesi doing the same thing. they’ll pull up a drawing and overlay their process on top of it and holy shit it fits it must be true
it’s like the people overlaying the fibonacci spiral over everything, it literally fits on anything if you try
basically construction came about as a way to analyse and simplify complex forms in order to process the information, but along the way people started treating it as part of the drawing process, just like what has very recently been happening with gesture
that is not to say it has no merits or is wrong, it’s just that a cult developed around it
basically just do what either
a) gives you the best result
or
b) is more enjoyable to do

>>4794488
that explains a lot. I was wondering why huston was always going on about this in the master drawing videos. I really enjoy construction, it feels nice to me. Maybe because I like messing around in zbrush and construction makes drawing feel like I'm pushing around lumps of clay. drawing what I see and not what I know always made me feel like I'm extremely limited to reference
>what has very recently been happening with gesture
what's this? the proko thing where you have to finish the gesture in x number of strokes?

>>4794446
also, bear in mind literally nothing you do actually matters to anyone but yourself
the “honorabru art” shit that is so common on the internet has no basis in reality, professional artists always used every single shortcut they could, from ripping other artists’ compositions, figures and backdrops in the renaissance, photographing their own reference to copy when cameras came about, projecting the reference onto a canvas with projectors, tracing with light tables, bashing their old paintings because they couldn’t be fucked to paint some subject again, colouring digitally because markers are hard, photobashing textures and backdrops, bashing nonsense in a rush to paint over, copying stock images on the first page of googling the thing they need, you name it, they’ve done it
whether you construct something out of your head, copy it with a grid, draw contours or trace a 3d model ultimately only matters to yourself and people who are seething because you’re getting attention you “don’t deserve”

>>4794517
I mean that the gesture is treated as the intrinsic starting point of a drawing rather than an exercise or a concept that describes the relation of elements not dissimilar to localised composition

>>4794534
>I mean that the gesture is treated as the intrinsic starting point of a drawing rather than an exercise or a concept that describes the relation of elements not dissimilar to localised composition
Oh, I thought this was how art was always done. maybe I've consumed too much NMA

>>4794534
Retard, people are against shortcuts for people who are still learning. Shortcuts need to be treated as a time saver for people who already know whatever the fuck it is they're doing. OP is a complete beginner and cannot take any shortcuts without a thorough understanding of what exactly he is shortcutting.

>>4794405
feel the form

>>4794488
I think you misunderstand Vilppu's idea of construction, he gives you the tools to analyze, and by using those analytical tools you can draw, since the drawing process is also an analytical process. At the end of the day you can internalize these tools and as such, you don't have to put them down on paper. No rules, just tools.

>>4794537
pretty sure you couldn’t find any mention of gesture pre-nicolaides, it’s basically just an extreme deep dive into croquis and even with him it has little in common with the “modern” meaning it developed

>>4794550
anon, people shit on rockwell for copying his references
I remember people shitting on mullins because he reused a wave
people shit on paintovers, “human copy machines”, professional artists copying stock imagery for irrelevant panels of a comic book
that aside, tracing is a completely legitimate learning technique for instance, and it gets shat on even though it’s traditionally how people have learned how to draw since windows were invented
further, learning what? if tracing a 3d model gives you a good result, why would you even learn construction? are you going to run out of 3d models and tracing capabilities? whoever’s paying you to produce an image doesn’t give a shit whether you spent 5 years drawing boxes or traced
whether those two things give the same result is another matter, but how you achieve a result is utterly irrelevant

>>4794488
>the construction meme is relatively new
How did the old masters drawn from imagination then?

>>4794421
Nicolaides is a meme, just like Loomis

>>4794569
How did cavemen? How did Romans? How did Greeks and ancient Mesopotamians?
Why do you even believe they drew without reference?

>>4794568
>if tracing a 3d model gives you a good result, why would you even learn construction?
You just made it abundantly clear you don't actually draw at all. Pyw immediately faggot

>>4794568
>if tracing a 3d model gives you a good result, why would you even learn construction?
This is starting to sound like massive cope giving advice to anons who don't know any better

>>4794586
>>4794591
you retards know Michelangelo traced shadows of models for the sistine chapel, right?
I do use construction because that’s what I fell into, but you’re genuinely retarded if you think someone like ilya could construct a way out of a cardboard box or would be better off if he could
you spout shit like no rules, just tools, but when someone says you don’t have to use a specific tool as long as the result is satisfactory, you blow your lid because you’re too personally invested and produce an emotional response when considering the possibility of someone doing the same without the same investment into whatever tool you’re desperately clutching

>>4794626
P
Y
W
f a g g o t

>>4794633
>no argument
post yours and I’ll post mine, neither of us will be good enough to be an authority

>>4794645
P Y W
f
a
g
g
o
t

>>4794649
I will, go ahead, I’m waiting. Don’t bother replying again if you’re too much of a coward to follow through.

can you fucks stop talking about nicolaides, hes a fucking horrible "artist" and i wish marshall vandruff would stop dropping his name every time they talked about books

>>4794653
You /trad/ are the most annoying and talentless hacks on this shithole board