/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>4738156
LOOMIS IS LIFE

I've made quite the blunder when trying to make a self portrait, I can't tell if any part of this manages to look 3d, it's not just a good drawing overall, too messy, hair is hard, everything is hard.
Avert your gaze, /beg/.

>>4738185
Just keep going anon
As a beg, every new drawing will be better than your previous one

>>4738192
I must know what I'm doing wrong, which I guess it's almost everything, I just don't know what to do with the lines anything, it eludes, and it seems like others make bigger jumps, even starting just like I did, from zero. But enough of that.

>>4738199
*or anything else for that matter

>>4738185
Don't be so hard with yourself anon, the only awkward things there are the right eye and mouth. Everything else looks pretty decent.

>>4738199
You seem to be symbol drawing, read the sticky there are exercises to help you with that

>>4738207
I'll admit to having been symbol drawing the mouth, the rest well unless it wasn't a concious effort I tried to draw as it is

Do you think any of those visualization techniques used in mediation and other /x/ shit are useful for art?

>>4738211
Seeing the mistakes in your drawings takes skill as a beginner, you have a gmi attitude

Check out the artbook or video course thread if you need any guidance

>>4738228
>>4738206
Thanks to both, best of luck btw.

>>4738219
stay away from the occult. Nothing good can come of it

>>4738219
I don't know what visualization for /x/ means

Many artists swear by visualization in many degrees, "feel the form" is one of the popular ones, ghosting, "carving"

>>4738219
What the fuck? Just draw, stop looking for the easy way out.

>>4738216
What's the problem with studying from gore?

>>4738185
Need Bucci
https://mega.nz/#!%20pb4VTJ6L!SH0dL3-vBUCyyA_V13-vodDGUvOZ5L1pImHTXrEuqcs
and
https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/asaro-head-9d26548182f8465a8e97371a9170561e

>>4738219
>/x/
i am so sorry anon

>>4738254
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the occult. Try it out! Incorporate some demonic summoning sigils into your artwork, and see if anything answers.

>>4738185
You want stronger values if you want things to pop more. Try going darker with your shadows and adding some highlights. Drawing yourself in a stronger light can make it easier.
imo the part that stands as being most wrong to me are the lips; there's supposed to be a concave groove between the bottom lip and the chin, but you didn't capture that

So, what is the trick to drawing?

I really want to like Sinix but I just feel like I can't understand what he's saying at all. Like, I watch his videos but take away nothing from them.

>>4738301
Perspective

>>4738301
thinking in 3d and understanding volumes

just feel the form anon

reposting here for more replies
anything in particular I should keep in mind when going forward with life drawing like this?

>>4738301
sus

>>4738304
Watch his paintover pals series, that way you get to see his advice in action and with some context

>>4738313
Head looks a bit smaller and too much to her right, but it doesn't look that bad, makes her look a bit older. I might be wrong but I think life drawing means drawing from a model irl/from observation as opposed to drawing from photo/reference.

Can a beg watch Vilppu's stuff, or is his stuff for advanced people?

>>4738313
looks good

If you're going for a copy and want to add values, I recommend turning the photo into grayscale

>>4738334
Vilppu is definitely beg-friendly. It might be hard at first to "Feel the form", but his method is pretty good for beginners.

>>4738156
>op pic
>2nd try is already gmi tier
>loomis made it worse
>loomis+life is the worst
Loomis is totally not a meme guys

>>4738271
Don't listen to the haters. There's nothing wrong with drawing decomposed corpses.

>>4738325
>Head looks a bit smaller
was my observation too. thanks
>life drawing means drawing from a model irl
it does actually yeah, meant as opposed to drawing from imagination
ultimately I want to be drawing from life too, of course
>>4738335
not brave enough to try shading with hatching yet, especially with something with as soft lighting as this. maybe I'll dick around with it in digital for a bit though, cheers for the tip

>>4738350
I've tried reading his figure drawing book and it's definitely a meme. After the mannequin, it's just draw rest of the owl type shit, especially the anatomy part of the book.

>>4738358
either you're a brainlet or a total beg, so start with fun with a pencil if you're a total beg

>>4738301
Making a deal with the devil, that's the only way to make it.

See
>>4738296

>>4738363
I just don’t like his teaching method

>2020
>Recommends books to BEGs
>Not video courses.
Don't do this.

>>4738350
Loomis claims yet another victim, it's sad really

>>4738410
This.

Wasted my time on Loomis and almost gave up on Vilppu and Hampton because of their books.

>>4738410
>>4738422
What would you recommend for video courses?

>>4738350
I think its honestly just the lack of understanding of the sphere/ellipse and perspective of it that throws begs off which makes sense

>>4738422
This new generation of artists can't handle books, ffs our future is bleak.

>>4738424
I liked Hampton's course because he gave homework and the anatomy is simple volumes. I quit because didn't feel like drawing at the time, but definitely recommend it.

Tried Proko's anatomy as well, but I was kind of beg at the time and didn't understand that you had to know figure drawing before learning anatomy so i quit.

Currently going through vilppu's old course and I like that he teaches figure drawing as well as anatomy.

Never really finished any of them but I hope that helps.

Is there any books that goes on teaching drawing like you would teach math? As in brief description of said lenme, proof of it/explanation and then you're given alot of exercise from the most brainlet to the most suicidal. Also if there's a more engineer oriented approach that would be nice. It's been a year and I've only got a book called Morpho: Anatomy for Artists, by Michel Lauricella and the progress have slowed down hard in the last 4 month.

>>4738437
Courses are just more beginner-friendly. I tried learning from books but you get more information from courses since the instructor gives you demos and handholds you more through the process. I think that people like Vilppu and Hampton who have both written books and have courses go more in depth in their courses.

>>4738219
>he doesn't have a tulpa he uses as a cross reference for different poses
>he is probably stuck in the "tulpas are one big LARP/ shizophrenia/ occultism" cope phase
n g m i

Finished first part of Huston's figure drawing lecture and tried to do assignment (5min gesture drawings). Am i moving in right direction? Do i feel the form?

>>4738437
i'm doing books. i do books for everything, can't really pay attention to videos.

>>4738460
Go back to studying the figure, for 5 minutes there are a lot of stuff missing.

>>4738469
Hope in humanity restored

>>4738358
I started with fun with a pencil and I got the impression it's a meme and switched to something else and am enjoying it much more. The fact that others got the same impression just reinforces the feeling

Is anime style stuff okay to post? I mean you can still tell me I suck but I'm at least hoping people would be constructive/objective about it

>>4738480
yeah, get ready to have your ass blasted.

>>4738480
everything is okay to post here as long as it's coming from a beginner, this isn't a hardcore drawabox/ loomis bootcamp with no fun allowed signs.

>>4738480
Did you practice real-life anatomy before starting out anime or you've just always did anime?

any way to emulate MS paint's brushes on other programs? I love their sharpness and crispness

>>4738495
No aliasing on the brush

went for a turning away look but it just looks like a shitty profile, but its better than straight on #3455 i guess

>>4738504
thanks

>>4738513
The skull is too small and the ear is too far back

>>4738515
yeah i see it, thanks bro

I feel like I draw much better when I have a reference but when I don't I draw like shit. Why?

>>4738385
Hampton>Loomis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSzB3ESpfE0

>>4738524
Means you know how to see but not how to construct.

>>4738524
I am in the same boat. Copying is extremely easy for me, but coming up with something new requires practice on how humans are constructed.

>>4738524
probably because you haven't understood the human face properly and his muscles. In fact, the lower part of the second image doesn't work and looks flat. and taking a closer look at other element, even the doesn't seem to have a direction. Some of it blow in the wind and some looks solid. It's possible that you're also good at copying and nothing else. Avoid drawing human face for the next month and don't try to finish things, just try to understand things.

Starting out and wanted to practice anatomy so I hopefully can avoid my attempts looking bad and strange later on. I've been following a couple of guides on it but can't seem to figure out why this piece seems off or how to fix it just yet, like the torso is too big or something among other things. Any critique, even on the whole thing would be great.

Started drawing a little over two weeks ago after years. Totally trash, but found myself actually enjoying drawing today during warm up practice. Here's a shitty knight. Remember, the only thing that matters is you have fun drawing now, otherwise you'll never get to pro-coomer status.

>>4738651
>Remember, the only thing that matters is you have fun drawing now

based

>otherwise you'll never get to pro-coomer status.

cringe

>>4738628
maybe the fact her whole head is the size of her torso, just draw from reference bro

>>4738654
I have no interest in being a coomer, but you have to talk to the natives in their own tongue. Otherwise they'll never understand booga from bunga.

>>4738628
anime?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llrf8CG0i5s

In what order do you guys do all the values when you shade? Usually I fill in the entire thing with the midtones, then do shadows, then center light, then finally highlight. What's the correct process?

Alright, 100 circles and ovals, done.
>>4738284
Thanks anon, I'll venture into that in a while and post results
>>4738300
Ah so that's what's wrong on the chin, indeed.

>>4738662
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5zVFlMQZEs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6-NhdEPKGk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5VNb5itr9Y

>>4738441
the closest thing I can think of is draw a box, still pretty far tho.

>>4738480
>Is anime style stuff okay to post?

yes, people post it here all the time

>>4738513
use construction!

>>4738671
Thanks anon, I'll take a look at these in a bit

Did more clothing than old masters stuff this time. Not happy with the red dress, fabric seems to behave differently, but I don't want to get into that just yet.
Sweatshirt/sweatpants have a rain jacket fabric type of feel.

i fucked up his face, he is too white

>>4738671
>value game
did anyone make a game of this already? it is pretty easy to program.

>>4738695
I kinda like the colors on your hat and the thing around his neck better, haha. Maybe you can fix the face with some masking and an adjustment layer?

>>4738695
Other than that his lips are off-center and don't really wrap around his face

>>4738662
I do the same because that's what pic related and the guy from Ctrl+Paint seem to do.

>>4738703
nop
just use photoshop

>>4738716
This is very helpful, thank you anon. But how do you eye the base values in between all those lights and shadows? I thought that the base value should be the halftone, but in this image the halftone is darker.

>>4738705
>>4738710
yeah, his lips are a mess too.

>>4738717
42
Not so bad
first try :^)

This took me 2 hours

>>4738725
I honestly just go with whichever value that takes up most of the silhouette just to save time, but I don't know if there's something wrong with that. I've heard people say you should start with the local value (value as seen in ambient light, I think) but I believe that's mostly for lighting from imagination/trying different lighting setups, and mostly have heard of it when painting in color.

frame studies

>>4738358
>After the mannequin, it's just draw rest of the owl type shit, especially the anatomy part of the book.
I agree

>>4738735
>This took me 2 hours
your lie

>>4738735
:this isnt a troll?

>>4738656
No kidding, thanks man. I'll try and compare a bit better and do some more reference work
>>4738661
Thanks for this too, I'll go over them next

How do you guys texture lips?

I've done a fair bit of work on faces but I still really struggle with proportions and details, like I feel like the face is always too wide (I can see here that the eyes are too far apart) or too long, but when I try to fix it, it just becomes even more off.

Somebody tell me the muscle structure of the arms please

>>4738156
will drawing a reference side by side on a monitor offer as much improvement as drawing a reference traditionally?

>>4738782
>>4738784
No
I suck massive dick

>>4738799
The same way you texture an anus. It's the same kind of skin

>>4738821
Like a still life or a model?
If your goal is to study values, there’s not much difference, but real life references help to see how light affects form better than a photo

>>4738824
Bro but I've never drawn an anus

>>4738826
perspective mainly
i feel like it's cheating when i can compare the size side by side

Any good refs/books/tutorials for different materials? I'm trying to learn how to paint them and everything I paint is blobby and mushy.

>>4738836
Yeah I get the same feeling whenever I draw from a photo. Maybe study objects around you?

I copied photos before going to this board, and constructing the object in drawing instead of copying the contour and shadows helped me to understand it better.

Not sure if that’s helpful since you’re focusing on perspective

carried on with the marco bucci head course a little bit. drew the head from imagination, not sure how far off i am right now. I havent got to any of the facial features yet, and the ear was complete guesswork

>>4738752
Pretty good
Nice Anon

Why do my eyes look so creepy? I feel like they're always too thin or too tall, and never slanted right

>>4738799
https://drawabox.com/lesson/2/textureanalysis

>>4738799
I don't

>>4738808
Michael Hampton Figure Drawing page 129

this is kinda cute

>>4738890
try simplifying the shape of the eye into a 'slanted' square (4 corners). once you think more in 3d, you can then draw wireframes/contours of your drawings, the easiest one would be the eyeball since its a sphere shape. For eyelashes, reduce them into simple block shapes too.

my explanation is shit but yeah, your bottom one looks like its getting there (the scelera outline is decent, if you reduce the eyelashes into 'chunks', then it'll be easier to draw the small details if you know which sections are longer/shorter beforehand, etc.) so keep up the good work.

>>4738890
To many lines
https://youtu.be/LIykey9umVk

>>4738937
i have no fucking clue how he starts painting like that
but the structure was helpful, thanks

>>4738968
First you learn how to draw them how to paint

>>4738983
Yeah I know, it's just scary seeing someone randomly blot down the correct shades of paint in the correct places.

this car looks off but i don't know how to fix it

also does anyone have resources on mechanical /robotic drawings?

>>4738989
You've placed the car too close to the right vanishing point, making it distorted.

>resources on mechanical /robotic drawings?
Literally anything by Scott Robertson.

>>4738985
https://youtu.be/P6yJO9gKSAI
https://youtu.be/ZluGXgpdJj4
https://youtu.be/v2Ok0Wx1bCE
https://youtu.be/ZJkIaMECW6c

>>4738989
Scott Robertson

MDJ
https://youtu.be/li2qw57PqZI
https://youtu.be/i5QdhXHXzpk

Sinix all channel
https://youtu.be/uEgCsWyOyCo

Gonna take a break for now, this is what I did today. Any critique would be appreciated. I'm still experimenting with the default brushes, so I'm still not sure what the best approach is.
None of these were from imagination. Maybe I should stop doing values for now and just focus on getting the basic shape down?

>>4739049
https://youtu.be/-Nt9fa8jZUEh

>>4738989
Having looked at the construction, it seems your car doesn't match your perspective lines.

>>4739056
Yeah the top and top right were done with mostly the hard round brush

>>4738931
thanks

>>4739095
Not /beg/

>>4739095
RESIZE YOUR IMAGES - try ~1000px, <1.1mb

>>4738156
Set of 30 second gestures... Do these count as gestures or contour drawings?

>>4739112
Needs to have more contour to be considered a contour drawing

How is this? I have only learned about values (in grayscale, never used color before) and basic blending, I'm also new at digital painting

>>4739118
Looks good for a first try, kind of messy though

Maybe try to use a bigger and more opaque brush for the shadows? Right now they look a bit random and have weird splotches. Shading with black is not a great idea when painting, if you see a shadow on a white fabric in real life, you’ll notice that it’s usually a shade of blue or brown

>>4739118
muddy hell

What should I learn before construction and anatomy? Perspective?

Gonna get back into drawing using my shitty samsung android tablet and following Mikeys videos. His construction methods honestly don't seem too bad and he's very easy to follow and draw along with. How did I do?

ref https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W7ksFlHiJo

>>4738159
LOOMIS IS LI F̶ E

>>4739173
Based

should i buy a tablet? using a mouse
im new to art and just been feeling it out
do i have any talent aka is it worth investing money in this hobby or am i ngmi

>>4739195
Yeah you can make it, buy a cheap tablet for now. Even if you end up not liking it and you give up well, at worst you lose a 100 bucks, at best you get a lifelong new hobby. May as well try.

>>4739203
aight thanks, that's a good way to think about it
gonna go ahead an order one

>>4738156
I just got a Wacom tablet (Intuos 5 Medium). Today I'm starting my digital art journey. I watched a youtube video that recommended I draw something from reference using common lines which is what I did. But I struggled with using the tablet since it's hard drawing on a tablet and looking up on the screen. Nevertheless, I want to keep going.

Anyone know where exactly I should start? Should I start with basics? Should I draw what I want and look up tutorials every now and then? I want to make good progress in 6 months and Im prepared to draw at least 2 hours a day. Should I practice on paper and then on digital or just start on digital and get used to it? Im mostly interested in digital.

>>4738890
stop drawing singular eyes like a high school girl, put them on a face in pairs

My attempt at drawing a biracial person via imagination

*Imagination*

>>4739222
Perspective
You need perspective for everything
https://youtu.be/7MV-bJz1dcw
Drawabox.com
https://youtu.be/HjUv0Zv0T8o
You should at least spend 1 hour a day learning perspective
And always use pen,ink(will help you with your lineart and confidence), don't use pencil pls

>>4739222
That's a pretty advanced thing to attempt for someone who JUST started. You'll get used to the tablet.

Personally I think the very first thing anyone should be taught is how to measure, and drawing what you actually see instead of what you think something is supposed to look like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzDGO0LssEM

Go check out the sticky too.

>>4739222
Look up keys to drawing on the art books thread, do an exercise or two a day (2hr max), come back in a month.

I'm doing the same thing you are, using a reference on the left and trying to recreate it on the right. It's a living hell trying to draw without barely any space. Don't be like me and try to push through it because you don't want the tablet to just sit there, you'll see far better improvement staying traditional just for the exercises. Just whip out the tablet for imagination sessions and doodles until you complete the book.

>>4739240
I can't tell if it's better or worse rotated, but it's shit so not like you can make shit into anything.

>>4739241
>ink
I'll try. I assume I can use a pilot pen
>>4739244
I struggle with this a lot so I will spend time on measuring as well. I'm not a natural visual type in the sense that I look at something and I struggle to picture the exact details of that object.
>>4739245
I see. I suppose I should start on paper before using the tablet since it's pretty advanced. I got lost just trying to go through the photoshop and wacom settings.

>>4739253
You'll get used to the tablet as long as you doodle with it in your spare time.

Do you have a second monitor? If not, invest in one pronto. You NEED one for digital art, especially with references. Like I said earlier, I can only use half of my already small shitty 7 inch tablet.

>>4739258
>Do you have a second monitor?
No but I have a laptop that I use often. Unfortunately my desk doesn't have space for a second monitor since it's a shitty office desk made for one monitor in the center.

>>4739253
>I'm not a natural visual type
As you practice you'll get better at estimating things with your eyes. I'd also recommend watching this video on methods you can use to get better at drawing proportions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luJh1ASyzB8

Also personally I think that if you bought the tablet then hell just use the tablet, it's not really going to matter in the long run whether or not you forced yourself to draw with ink in the early stages. Drawing digital fundamentally changes your mindset and how you draw anyways.

>>4739263
Sorry, meant to say that I have a laptop on the side with my desktop PC being the main one.

>>4739253
>pilot pen
Yep

>>4738823
Don't be afraid. You will get better.
We're all gonna make it.

>>4738703
Try blendoku

>>4739240
>>4739249
played with it a little. features are ok, but it doesn't look like you are mounting them correctly in perspective on the larger mass of the head. do you know when a square becomes a circle? projecting figures that agree provides solidity. you should study the lens if you are trying to emulate it. you may not need the mathematics, but the relationship of form and figure in a field of view seems to be pretty important. go study, anon. learning is a suffering that only ends once you do.

Trying to develop a technique for drawing crinkly fabric. Any suggestions?

Before anyone says don't use pen, I prefer pen.

>>4739453

1 minute gesture drawings.

>>4738923
not bad, the shoulders are a bit smaller and the right arm is in a different angle, but it is pretty close.

>>4739118
do some figure studies to learn what a human body looks like and how all the parts fit together

>>4738933
the far eye should be so smaller

>>4739118
you need to up your anatomy game, one thigh is half of the size of the other. the hand the feet fucked up. her skull is huge and so on.

>>4739170
>How did I do?
fine, but did you learned it? can you draw the figure in other poses?

>>4739195
what the other anon said, but you could learn to draw on the paper too. if you are not sure.

I've realized that my motivation to draw is fleeting at best and once I look at my scribbles and find myself disappointed with what I drew, it sucks all the fun out of it. I used to love drawing when I was younger and didn't think anything of it. Now that I'm grown up I cannot stop comparing my lack of skill to others. How do I go back to that innocent, playful state of just creating? I want to draw well, but first of all I want to draw for fun.

Study.

>>4739195
Anyone can make it. Talent is a meme word. Some people just learn at different paces. The hardest part is having grit and just fucking drawing, practising and not being discouraged. You naturally get better over time so long as you stick with it and learn.
But basically what the other anon said. I'd personally recommend starting with paper and pencil until you know you want to stick with it and have the fundamentals down before moving to digital so you're not throwing money down the drain.

>>4739569
What is it?

>>4739655
soul

I'm trying to do a wimmelbilder thing, but I'm having trouble getting my environment setup just the way I want it. For those of you with a tablet without a screen, how do you do your mapping? The whole monitor, or a region at the center of the screen?

I've always avoided doing chicken-scratching, since I draw digitally I just undo bad strokes when sketching, maybe leave 2-3 overlapping ones at most. Is this a good or a bad thing?
I feel like chicken-scratching could help me feel out the form more or something, like on the left. Since I just found this image; what makes the one on the left NOT chicken-scratching, the precision?

>>4739737
whatever makes the final product look good then who gives a fuck, if you want to chicken scratch like the right picture and then on a new layer just do clean line art then sure whatever, focus on fundamentally getting better at drawing, if youre doing gesture i highly suggest you DO NOT do chicken scratches as you need long flowing lines from the elbow/shoulder to feel the rhythm of the form

How do I stop my digital line art from being shit?
I'm comfortable with pencils and pens but even after 5+ years I can't get nice lines with a tablet

>>4739753
maybe if you post an example we can help

I know both are complete garbage btw, left was a quick sketch and right was my own attempt at thinking of it more as a figure, don't think it helped improve it, but i spent a grand total of like 4 minutes on both. I prefer drawing faces and going into detail. What are some good videos to watch about boxing out a pose? I'm too lazy to download loomis

>>4738156
Hasta la vista ZE!

>>4739569
>>4739655
>>4739673

Black clouds rain thunder

>>4739457
Hampton?

>>4738752
looks great! !

>>4739568
>How do I go back to that innocent, playful state of just creating?
you need to stop comparing yourself with others. you will never be happy with your skill if you keep doing this.

>>4739581
try the sticky anon.

Drew some first person gun from some cod.
Should I be looking to "smudge" to shade/fill out these works or should I be keeping it unsmudged. Also what is the actual medium called. I want to call it "black chalk", but it's either pastel or charcoal. How do I know which one it is?

>>4739147
How do I improve this?

I'm ready to l e a r n

>>4739813
drawing w the -> side of brain book

>>4739095
gmi

>>4739823
This one?

>>4739813 is btw not supposed to be a copy just drawing with a reference

I might not understand something, but why do begs in here give advice to another begs? Like I see a shitty drawing, and then I read some of the replies and the are so fucking stupid, that if you were drawing like for a half a year max, you wouldn't say those things. Why do you give advice, if you can't draw anything?

>>4739845
B-but chef and food analogy!!!

>>4739777
ok crabs, is anyone going to critique my work?

>>4739851
looks too bad to pinpoint anything. Learn shape appeal and perspective. It seems you wanted to make the hand go towards camera, but it looks like it is broken

>>4739796
you first ened some clarity in your work i have no fucking clue what im looking at, you need to remember not everyone has your eyes, not everyone can fill in the spaces with their mind as you do, obviously to you its a gun but to someone who hasnt drawn it it looks like a car engine or something

>>4739854
ok

>>4739737
>what makes the one on the left NOT chicken-scratching

the way I understand is that the left one is restating the lines, where each stroke is one line in a slight different position. each stroke has the intention to be the final line. you only do another one if you missed the last.

as oppose to the right one that is many strokes to do one line, the intention is to construct one line using multiple strokes

>>4739832
yes, you can find it for free. there are a lot of mumbo jumbo written, ignore them

>>4739777

I am very eclectic about stylization but, those proportions are not appealing at all, she looks like an amputee (not even a cute one), maybe try copying an art style that you like. if you did, please post it.

>>4739845
who are going to give advice if not begs? also those begs giving bad advice probably don't see themselves as begs or are just trolls.

>>4739813
values
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5zVFlMQZEs
>>4738717
and you need bucci
https://mega.nz/#!%20pb4VTJ6L!SH0dL3-vBUCyyA_V13-vodDGUvOZ5L1pImHTXrEuqcs
and
https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/asaro-head-9d26548182f8465a8e97371a9170561e
and Learn perspective if you want to improve REALLY FAST

>>4739907
Thanks but I believe I should be constructing the head better before figuring out the values?

Also is bussy the new loomis?

How do I learn how to paint?
>inb4 loomis

>>4739917
stop drawing pictograms. Start measuring the shapes.

>>4739907
>"This requires 2 or more people"
Pass

>>4739927
>drawing pictograms
wdym
>measuring the shapes
how

Why is loomis so hated here? I mean, I've just started and it's going fine, yet. Why so much hate?

>>4739935
They see potato head and think you'll be learning to draw only potato heads

>>4739931
your eyes look comical, as most of the shapes of the face you drew. Watch sinix videos on simplyfing shapes on the head, like nose, mouth and eyes.
When you draw start from biggest shapes, and then go to smallest. When you are painting you will do it with values, but you should probably start by sketching.
Start with the line to the most left, most up, most down and most right of the model. Then try to put the lines of the skull there, hair etc there.

>>4739935
People spam "go read loomis" too much which gives him an impression of being the ultimate universal cure for all which it isn't
its turned into a buzzword

>>4739941
Thanks for reply
>Watch sinix videos on simplyfing shapes on the head
Will do
>probably start by sketching
Am doing
>Start with the line to the most left, most up, most down and most right of the model
What does that do

Like this guy who draws one head per day in here, and it always looks like shit? And then he complaing people don't read 20 books before posting their pictures in here?

>>4739929
>>4739907
Found this
https://color.method.ac/
Post your high score brehs

>>4739947
you block the biggest shapes. At first you block the square in whichc the model is. Then you can block a simplified shape of the face and hair. You go from low detail to high detail. It makes it easier to see mistakes, and makes it muchc more look like the model. You drawing looks nothing like the girl on the left, even if you deffend it with
>it's my style

>>4739891
I tried to copy the Panty and Stockings art style, but now that I look at it more closely I think I drew her lower half way too small.

>>4739956
I never defended anything mate. This is not a battle. I came for advice and I'm listening to it.
I was asked to draw a girl from reference to see which direction I should go, and I did it to the best of my ability

>>4739951
>https://color.method.ac/
>Color
First Learn Values
Like this guy
>>4738729

>>4739974
Does values game have a single player mode?

>>4739951
>4.5
Then remembered that my screen was in reading yellowish mode.

>>4739951
good I guess? it is easy to cheat because I only looked at only one color at a time

god I need to learn coloring better...

Any ideas to fix the background? I want it simple and minimalistic and I kinda like how the orange looks in my head but if it's saturated it flattens the image and if it's unsaturated it looks dull. I don't know what to do, really

>>4739782
mixture of hampton and loomis with a splash of proko, I'm getting caught up in building the figures.

>>4739793
Have anything more specific?

>>4739796
How do you not know what medium you're using? Oil pastels are oily, chalk is chalky. But there are other types of pastels, so maybe if you looked at the packaging and told us?

>>4739958

>>4739813
No lines, only light/dark shapes.
Note the bottom-right face in this example.

>>4740039
cute

>>4740039
I hate chunky feet so much

>>4739737
Left isn't chicken scratching because nothing about it resembles chicken scratching. That's the point. Left is all flowing lines aiming to convey an action, right is all scritchy scratchy lines crawling around looking for a contour. They're nothing alike.

>>4739813
get Dorian Iten's accuracy guide
https://www.dorian-iten.com/accuracy/
and go through one of these
-Dodson's Keys to Drawing
-Eviston's The art and science of drawing
I suppose Betty Edwards is alright but haven't read it and have heard Keys is better, but if it works for you go for it.
If you're drawing from photo reference and are going for accuracy learn to block-in as shown in pic related.
Read the first 8 pages of the sticky just to get a rough big picture of what you're trying to do.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uwaXKU7ev6Tw_or__o8ARpUb6r2rCZYJGqwSFV9AD98/edit#bookmark=id.15jx3pyuimvj

>>4740039
thanks, that helps a lot

be real with me, how bad is it to only use mechanical pencils to draw? feel like i should be switching to graphite since it seems easier to do things like shading/tones but i like the feel of mechanical pencils a lot more

>>4739935
Because it gets shilled to begs despite not being beg friendly

Always been terrible at art, decided to start with drawabox since it seems designed to help idiots like me who can't even draw a line. I'm only about 100boxes into the draw a box challenge but I'm wondering if there's opinion on branching out while I continue these super fundementals

i.e. would I build bad habits if I started to do things like gesture practice while before I've gotten through even the more basic shape fundementals? I'd obviously continue to do the drawabox lessons but taking. a brake from the same drills every now and then would be nice.

>>4740054
No rules just tools

Just do whatever makes you improve and feel good about your art.

>>4740059
dont skip fun with a pencil

>>4738437
honestly I rather read because I can go at my own pace instead of the videos pace

>>4740039
good job anon!

>>4740012
chopped skull on the left, try drawing the missing part

>>4738703
>>4738717
>>4739982
It's easy to make a custom brush that generates those value bubbles for you. All you need to do is pick a hard round, up the spacing (it's about 150% in this pic) and then set it to randomly vary the opacity (no pressure control or anything like that). Then just use pure black and draw some worksheets for yourself. Since it's random you won't know their value.

>>4740044
So should I sketch out the face with lines, then paint values in a different layer and remove the sketch when its done?

>>4740031
the sticky

>>4740052
If by accuracy you mean photorealism, I wasn't going for that
>>4739832

I was just told to "draw woman from a reference"
I guess my goal/dream would be a face that is detailed, but highly stylized, something like picrelated

I'll check them out and see what's up though, thanks

Is there any benefit to drawing with a mouse?
Are there any successful artists that prefer mouse to a tablet/pen?

Anyone else here struggling with bad eyesight? I want to stop using it as an excuse. Not like I'm blind, just kinda have slightly warped vision and they're easily strained.

>>4740114
>Are there any successful artists that prefer mouse to a tablet/pen?
https://twitter.com/zel_sama
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GaML9jrbao
He said in one of his livestreams that he starts with a mouse and then tried to switch to a tablet, but he said he prefers to draw with the mouse.

>>4740119
go to an eye doctor

>>4740121
there are anatomical errors in that video as well as shading/lighting issues

>>4740109
>understanding the form and anatomy is photorealism
>it's just my style man
why do people even come here? to fish for compliments? Your art looks like shit, that's why you are here guys

>>4740114
No benefit that I know, but it's fine if you're doing pixel art. Probably better for your wrists since the pen is upright.

>>4740130
Yeah I know, my point is that you can make good art with a mouse

>>4740136
I meant that a pen is probably better for your wrists

>>4740132
That's not what I said at all
I said that I want to have a style eventually
not that I have one

and I don't fully grasp what 'accuracy' is supposed to mean in this context
realism no
naturalism yes

>why do people even come here?
I came to learn
for advice
and I got it

stop being a negative nelly and work on turning yourself into a positive paulie

>>4740122
Scotoma can't be treated

>>4740149
>I want to know how to bend the rules of realism
>I don't want to learn realism
?

>>4740097
how's this one?

What are the techniques and basics cirno refers to in this image?

>>4740099
Based, checked and thanks

>>4740054
I use only mechanical pencil, it is a pretty versatile tool. it deserves more love!

I think you should train in whatever you will be using.

>>4740155
I do want to learn bro...

Critique?

>>4740164
dunno, but half of those drawings look like shit. Just draw, and don't read things from people that clearly don't really know what they are talking about

>>4740167
then draw realistic heads, and when someone tells you
>you fucked up
tell them
>where did I fuck up, how do I make my lines and artwork look 3d
rather than
>heh ;^) didn't even go for realism. Just exploring styles hehe. But you know, thanks for advice man

>>4740149
Not dat anon, but
I think these videos will help you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMUYG1hkY5c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKFfSl-EBfI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBadnTAzQFc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEgCsWyOyCo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2Ok0Wx1bCE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0ufz75UvHs

>>4740119
>slightly warped vision and they're easily strained
this could make your art more unique.

>>4740177
>heh ;^) didn't even go for realism. Just exploring styles hehe
I did not say or imply any of that. You legitimately have schizophrenia

>>4740179
thanks brother

>>4740184
You imply that all the time, because you were proud of your piece but it looks like shit.
>not really trying to draw realistic
>it is not my goal
>just want to draw a nice looking face
All the professionals that draw anime girls, can draw a person. If you can't grasp it, and make a drawing 100% from reference, trying to be as accurate as you can be, then what the fuck do you want?
>I think you made the skull to small
>I didn't want to draw realisitc
>your lips are not 3d
>I didn't want to draw realistic
you don't draw realisitc because you want to, you draw it to draw your stylized shit. It is so hard to talk to begs sometimes

How do you measure when viewing the reference on the iPad and drawing at the same time? Eyeballing?

>>4740177
>>4740195
I think you might be conflating me with someone else.
Even though I never said stupid shit that you're quoting, and even though I asked for advice and am currently following through with that advice, even though I was grateful and humble, you still imagine me in your head being a faggot and sayind stupid shit excuses.
Very Pavlovian, kinda Lynchian
>you were proud of your piece
No I wasn't
>not really trying to draw realistic
Yes, I was told to "draw from reference" and I did that. If I were told to "copy this photo perfectly" like some exercises I saw here, I'd do that.
It's not an excuse, I'm just reinstating what happened.
>what the fuck do you want
LEARN

>It is so hard to talk to begs
It would be easier if you actually read what I said instead of imagining things.

You put all of this typical beg shit in my mouth that I never said, to then go "Ah! Typical begs, always saying the same stupid things!"

>>4740179
>sycra
this guy is fucking awful, don't ever watch his garbage unless you want to ruin yourself.

>>4740174
>half of those drawings look like shit
Isnt that the point though? Its showing progression as you gain greater and greater mastery of techniques.
I would certainly assume the maker of this image knows more than me, considering my drawings look like the one on the top left

>>4740195
I also like how you subtly switched "photorealism" to just realism

>>4740200
People like you don't make it. If you can't even hate your own art, and you have even the slightest feelings of defending it (while being on that level I might add), then you won't make it. I don't give a fuck why did you draw it. Even if God himself came to earth to tell you to draw it. All that matters is that it looks bad, draw better.
You won't post your work online, with explanation "someone told me to draw it like that, I know it looks bad"

>>4740183
I unironically thought maybe it might help me in a weird way since it might be the reason I appreciate visual clarity/a lack of clutter. Its just kinda hard to know how to gauge it realistically, just knowing someone else has pushed throught it would give me some peace of mind.

>>4740209
I do not understand where you got the idea that I'm defending it.
I hate it.
I never defended it.
All I did was explain what I'm HOPING to draw EVENTUALLY when I become better.
Are you braindamaged?

>it looks bad, draw better
Now that's exactly the kinda critique that gets nobody nowhere

>>4740207
I'm talking about the bottom drawings. "shit" is probably too hard (a lot too hard). But yeah, if you look at that and go
>wow, this looks awesome
you are probably a beg

>>4740206
>this guy is fucking awful, don't ever watch his garbage unless you want to ruin yourself.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>4740168
head too wide

>>4740218
Do what you want. You will understand if you keep drawing

>>4740235
Oh but I do understand anon.
You saw the word "style" and the word "realism" in one post and made an assumption without bothering to read the rest.

>>4740225
He can't even draw a straight standing figure. Maybe he is unaware of canvas flipping? Thats drawing 101.

>>4740245
Sycra is the proof talents exists (or the lack of thereof)

>>4740244
Your first response to someone was
>realism wasn't my intention
you might not like it, but deep down you are just defending something, that should tomorrow make you cringe if you keep learning.

>>4740168
Is that another Anakin?

>>4739951
>tfw when you're better than perfect

>>4740214
> just knowing someone else has pushed throught it would give me some peace of mind.

I heard a podcast once with one indie dev that made retro game and everyone was saying how his color palette was different and such turns out that he was colorblind but he had to do it anyway.

this is the closest thing I can remember from the top of my head. but I am sure that there are better example out there

Been toying around when doing my ovals and circles (want them to look 3d), I feel I've grasped lines and angles, getting better at determining the angle and actually following, I try to mentally gesture draw if I'm not able to draw but I saw this vid today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzSW9L_HGHw Actually watching it right now and could I, with the limited knowledge I have at the moment, try my hand at construction? it might not look great but it sounds like it could be fun

I've seen the op in /asg/ and two videos on youtube that discuss copying and how it's useful for anime, but I don't know what resources to look for that explain on how to actually copy with accuracy

>>4739951

>>4740252
No, it said "photorealism" wasn't my intention.
What I meant is that I drew it from reference instead of copying it 1 for 1

A simple misunderstanding, you don't need to get condescending or bitchy
I was not defending it

>>4740252
>>4740308
Nigga I specifically came here to get taught and told
I'm not a child
Why would I defend my piece of shit drawing on an anonymous egyptian baking forum
What kind of troglodyte do you take me for

I was just trying to figure out some terms
Some semantics

>>4740206

just use your fingers?

>>4740315
>egyptian baking forum
saving this gem, thanks

>>4740199
just use your fingers?

>>4740315
because it is natural to defend your own art. And you need to let go of that mentality, because it will waste years of time in the long run

>>4739813
I assume your goal was to draw stylized version of left pic, but you lost all her features in process. Different brows, jawline, nose, ear, lips. Also you painted values for face, but for some reason gave up on hair.

>>4740206
what is so bad about it?

Critique? Fell like stuff is off, started Vilppu's course so it's a start, but I'm still kinda not sure should I grind it all first or first focus on a specific spot.

>>4740109
That face actually looks pretty realistic, as far as the anatomy goes. It's distorted by the expression, but it's not cartoonish. If that's your goal, then learning realistic faces would probably be fairly helpful.

>>4739951
I'm okay with this.

>>4740249
I dunno man sycra is (or used to be) capable of some pretty decent shit.
From his ramblings about different personalities/ personas taking over drawing at times I assume that his problems with art stem less from a lack of talent and more from an ever declining mental state.
As well as a preoccupation with unworkable or unhelpful "art-philosophies" and an almost universally unappealing sense of aesthetics.

>>4740174
Shit how? I think the high-level ones look pretty good.

>>4740387
perspective, anatomy, shape appeal. If you want to draw anime, look up high quality japanese illustrators, not some english bait.

>>4740396
>perspective, anatomy, shape appeal
That doesn't explain shit and you know it.

>>4740324
I see now that I shouldn't have used lines for face, but just paint
>>4740322
I didn't defend it, I was trying to clean up a misunderstanding from poor wording. I always knew its shit

>>4740399
>it looks like shit
>how?
>explain how
>That doesn't explain shit and you know it.
talking to begs really is a waste of time. Go draw a box

>>4740324
another beg here, four days in
30 minutes it took me, hmmm

>>4740409
Your "explanation" was four words. It wasn't even a sentence, because it didn't have a verb.

>>4740399
Here, I'll explain it: Specifically for the 5th mastery, look at it. Really look at it and see what's off. If you can't find it I will explain it

>>4740409
kek

>>4740444
Her leg's really fucking short?
(im a different anon btw)

>>4740426

>>4738156
How long does it take to learn draw/paint decently? How many hours a week and how many years? Asking because I'd like to learn but I also have other time-consuming hobbies so don't know if I have enough free time.

>>4740444
>Here, I'll explain it:
>just look at it yourself
>I'll explain in the next post, for real this time, promise :^)
There is literally no way at this point that you aren't doing this on purpose.

>>4740387
I'll try to list some actual problems:
>lv.4: Left leg looks tiny due to botched foreshortening.
>lv.5: Foreshortening still not quite there, feet are too small. Torso too long. Boobs too high. Jawline should be more forward.
>lv.6: Collarbones overexaggerated and in the wrong place. Face has multiple issues. What emotion is that expression even trying to convey? Why are the eyes so flat? It doesn't even look like Cirno. Simple straight-line ice shards replaced with weird butterfly-wing-looking ice shards, probably just to have a more complex shape to draw. They don't really look like ice, and they definitely aren't on model. Torso is too long, again, and the arms are too short.

>>4740519
>ice - shape appeal
>long body - perspective/anatomy
>weird face - anatomy
we speak the same language, you just can speak to the begs without shitting yourself from laughing

>>4740531
Should've actually explained it yourself then instead of waiting and hoping that someone else would articulate it for you

>>4740537
There are more problems with the drawing, but who the fuck gives a fuck? If you can't see them, you are a beg, you need to draw more. Like what will you gain from learning that the shadows are too light, or the anatomy doesn't make sense? Wanting someone to write an essay on some shitty drawing, so you will forget it the next day isn't a nice thing to do

>>4740507
Depends on what you consider "decent". One thousand hours is the figure I've heard for how long it generally takes to get good at a skill, and it sounds like it's in the right ballpark. You'll see serious improvement long before that, though, and on the other hand, the learning process never really ends.
I'd suggest you try to draw an hour every day for a week or two. At that point, ask yourself if you're having fun. If you're enjoying it, you'll probably be able to fit it into your schedule, even if it's less time than ideal. If you hate it, you shouldn't bother unless you have a lot of free time.

>>4740531
A completely blind person with a screen reader could find the posts in /beg/ with images attached, say that the anatomy is wrong, and probably be right nine times out of ten.

>>4740558
>what is wrong with the image
>say what is wrong
>blind person could say those things are wrong -.-
never change beg, never change

ive failed again, i keep on failing i try TO NOTICE WHEN I AM DRAWING BUT I CANT SEE IT I MISSED THE ANGLE OF THE HEAD I REDID OVER AND OVER JAW EVERYTHING BUT ONLY NOW I NOTICED I CANT GET THE SHADING TO WORK I CANT GET THAT FUCKING SPOT BETWEEN THE EYE AND THE NOSE TO WORK I DIDNT WANT TO BE LIKE THIS AGAIN BUT I CANT TAKE IT ANYMORE
TALENTLESS, IM THE BIGGEST FAILURE A MACHINE WHO CANT COPY WANTS TO CREATE BUT CANT
I WANT TO EAT THIS DRAWING SO THAT ONLY THEN ILL AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>4740426
TALENT YOU HAVE MORE TALENT THAN ME
WHAT AM I THEN? TALENT TALENT TALENT
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I FEEL IT OH THAT DELICIOUS ANGER IVE MISSED SO MUCH I MISSED IT
>>4740324
>>4739813

>>4740545
>>4740560
I give a fuck, please explain it for me in enough detail that a beg can understand. As it turns out most beginners in all fields aren't good enough to understand mistakes without guidance, so sometimes it really helps to just be spoonfed. Don't give low effort advice and then staunchly defend not expanding on it when asked to.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
SIV'FE'IERI KUHN
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENOOOOOOO QULT'E AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA QULT'E KAR'JFE YLYA
IN'HJ-AAA K-C-C'CMYYYNHMEEE

>>4740586
I gave you keywords. You can google them, use online 3d manequinn to make the same pose as the girl, find really popular artists on booru and look how the make anime things work. You really want someone to write an essay on every picture posted here. Why not redraw it, just in case someone doesn't understand what the author meant? You only need to draw.
You want to draw realistic? Follow good realisitc painters. Want to draw anime? Probably don't follow meme english guides

>>4740164
>Techniques
Can you draw a straight line? a oval? a sphere? aka muscle memory
If can even control your hand, How the hell are you going to draw?
1:11:27
https://youtu.be/jxVfsG8srqA?t=4287
min 6:21
min 5:41
min 13:02
https://youtu.be/HjUv0Zv0T8o?t=381
22:41
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MV-bJz1dcw
Drawabox gonna solve that problem and don't use pencil.

>Basics
Simple forms like a cube, cylinder, sphere https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpqEE9yU474
IF you rotate this 3 forms Cube, Sphere, Cylinder you can draw everything
9:19
8:02
5:48
0:15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjUv0Zv0T8o

FAILED YESTERDAY, FAILED TODAY I'LL FAIL TOMORROW BUT UNLIKE YOUR FAILURE THERE WILL BE NO IMPROVEMENT, I'VE SEEN IT
I'VE FUCKING SEEN IT, YOU'LL KEEP ON IMPROVING WHILE I JUST DO NOTHING, THIS IS ALL A FUCKING JOKE

>>4740545
>isn't a nice thing to do
lol okay anon. Sorry that giving a halfway decent answer to a simple question is too taxing for your superior /int/ brain. How dare these begs impose?

>>4740164
>Perspective
Learn perspective will help you draw from imagination and become intuitive
and
you need for everything(anatomy, figure, face,etc)
and gonna help you with your perception too
min 26:24
https://youtu.be/7MV-bJz1dcw?t=1584
I recommend Drawabox because for me is like a beta version of the new Marshall Perspective Course.
Comment from YT Podcast
>I've been taking a course called drawabox- 100 percent free, all available online and mostly exercise based, and even as i listen to the podcast, everything that marshall and stan are talking about is included. He starts you off on freehand lines, ghosting, dynamic lines etc, then he goes into basic point perspective, but goes then into boxes. and boxes. and boxes. So many that it becomes instinctive, and then it moves onto construction. A great course for imaginative drawing and construction and completely instruction based- do what he says and you will get better. https://drawabox.com
Marshall says: the only way to learn is to draw through the box- drawabox fundamental
>Perception
Try to draw from life when you can, until you understand perspective, because when you see a photo if you don't know perspective, all you gonna see is 2d/flat.
but when you master perspective, when you see a photo, you gonna see a 3d photo is gonna be like drawing from life.
and try to analyze your draws before asking for help, use your brain for something god damm
Dat is why people struggle with gesture, and is why when you understand a little bit about perspective, you start to feel the form aka see the photo in 3d.
and
35:04
https://youtu.be/k0ufz75UvHs?t=2104
Sycra will teach you how to stimulate your brain aka perception, BTW the Iterative Drawing only gonna start to make effect when you learn perspective.
:)

>>4740164
Tips
Top Tier Gesture Tutorial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSzB3ESpfE0
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thh4JXnVtxM

You main priority is PERSPECTIVE!!!!!!!!!!
at least spend 1 hour learning perspective per day(takes about 100 hours to 300 hours to master perspective), if you master perspective, shading is gonna be so fucking ez :)))))

BTW
Perspective is the fastest way to find your TEMPO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVY5gla0FNQ
>>4740061

>>4740622
Every good teacher knows, that it is taxing to teach. Especially when students think they are smarter than the teacher (90% of begs in here)

>>4740624
>>4740622
>>4740608
>>4740607
FUCK YOU FUCK YOU YOU TALENTED
YOU'RE SPECIAL, CHOSEN WHILE I'M THE ONE WHO CAN'T IMPROVE >>4740632
>>4740633
FUCK YOU FUCK YOU AND DIE

>>4740608
>>4740624
>>4740632

How to improve really(3-5 months) FAST AKA BECOME INTUITIVE!!!!!

>>4740519
>There is literally no way at this point that you aren't doing this on purpose.
I should have worded better but I was trying to tell the other anon that, if someone says something looks off, dont just ask them how immediately. Go look yourself and if you cannot find it, say you dont see anything wrong even though you examined the image yourself and you'll get a quick rundown.

>>4739958
also the lower leg/feet should be wider than the upper leg, but you probably already noticed it too.

>>4740342
the hair dont look like hair

New thread
>>4740729
>>4740729
>>4740729

>>4740730
Real new thread:
>>4740331
>>4740331
>>4740331
Not that it matters, /ic/ is slow enough that this thread will probably stick around for a good day or so.

>>4740550
Sounds like a sound advice I'll try it for a week

>>4740877
Good luck anon

class assignment

>>4741404
needs more loomis

>>4740490
eh?
What is supposed to mean anon?
Values?

>>4741012
Gonna make it