/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

How do you do comic thumbnails? Do you have many many thumbnails for each page, or do you just settle for the first thumbnail that works? Howard Pyle said he would always do a minimum of 50 thumbnails per painting, but does that apply to comics, where we already have a script?

>>4673302
I tried using thumbnails in the past, but I feel they are a waste of time with manga.
For me, I type out everything I imagine for a story - generally world building chunks. Then, I flesh out the story loosely and draw it as a sequence of sketches.
Doing thumbnails or story boards is like trying to write and visualize at the same time and dilutes manga quality.

>>4673267
>All pages must be solely black and white

Does shading look bad in manga, or is it just a print issue? I really don't like screen tones, but I'm willing to work with them, as shading takes up a lot of my time...
(I work by myself, so I do everything involved with making a manga)

>>4673457
So you just settle on the first thing that works? That seems like thats what most other comic artists do, but I'm not sure. I feel guilty when I do that.

>>4673466
There's nothing about shading that looks inherently bad in manga, anon; it's all about how you do it, though lots of people have a lot of trouble working with pure black and white shading properly, and it also takes a lot of time. Manga like Made In Abyss (pic related) do it very well, though it can take a lot of time if you're not used to it.

The contest demands monochrome for printing reasons. The magazines are cheaply printed and thus lack the range of inks needed to print a fully-shaded manga.

>>4673476
>>4673466

Its also monochrome because they print it on resin plates. Screentones will print consistently across 10,000+ copies.

>>4673476
I thought the contest was monotone (only black or white) not monochrome (value range from black to white).

>>4673471
NTA but I do thumbnails first. However I do have my script written out in panels and pages so I kind of have an idea of what all is going to be on each page and which panels I want the viewer to spend more/less time looking at.

I wouldn't do 50 thumbnails per panel though, that's insane. Better to just run through one each and then go back and redraw whatever doesn't evoke the right emotion or look good enough.

>>4673535
Monochrome as a word also refers to binary (ONLY black and ONLY white) / single color (one color and the paper /medium color), which is the definition that they meant to use based on the responses to the inquiries of other anons.

The contest rules are horrendously translated.

>>4673544
Holy shit. If that's the quality of their japanese-english translators I'm afraid for my contest entry haha

>>4673548
Yeah, that fear's been raised before. Between the horrendous translation job and the constant variation in terms of the responses to certain questions (we've gotten both Yes and No answers as to whether or not you're allowed to color your cover), there's no guarantee at all that the entries themselves won't end up horrendously botched once the translators put them down in front of the JP editors.

>>4673548
>>4673550
It’s easier to translate into your native tongue than into a foreign language.

>>4673471
As the wise Anon said >>4673539 - it is better to reduce the amount of time you spend planning and not redraw a panel or page too much.
In my case, I listen to music while I type out the story and visualize what I'm writing like a movie. Then I sketch out that movie and fix any issues before working on the final product.

>>4673476
So I've never read MiA, but looking at that page it would probably be horrendous in screen tones. The shading is alright but everything is shaped like a marshmallow, so there's not too much variety with the lighting.
Idk anon, I may go back to hatching, as it actually saves time for my art style...

ive seen amnesia/memory loss in lots of anime i was wondering how should memory loss be written in a story ? does it ruin a story? i need advice

I drew a weeb manga for a graphic design assignment not long ago.

>>4673591
I've seen too many amnesia manga and now I dislike the genre and plot device overall.
Some stories have done it well, but more so in film and literature than manga. Just my opossum tho, you do what you want!
I guess Berserk does a fair job of conveying the loss of remembering what it was like to be human, when you're now a demigod butterfly demon transformer or some unstoppable slug simplord.
>but they find out what humanity remains when they die
I play too much Dark Souls

What do you think is a good example of a story with memory loss?

>>4673611
Woh this is actually really good, despite the story being cheesy
You've already made it, Anon

>>4673619
op here i like memory loss plot device because its like exploring a new world and i dont have to like power creep the main character instead he can just learn everything i guess it gives a plot to extend the story??

>>4673591
>>4673619
That’s because amnesia is a very good narrative device to tell a story as it lends itself to a lot of intrigue and mystery. Reason you’re put off by it is because you’ve seen it done POORLY too many times. But like with anything else, it’s a matter of execution. If the payoff for the set up is good, then it doesn’t matter that it’s cliche. Good examples of it off the top of my head are Planetscape Torment, and Memento.

>>4673611
based
i'm afraid of revealing my power level even though for tattoo design/photoshop class i made a giorno ladybug/heart emblem

>>4673302
I doodle them with my mouse while lounging around. Generally I think about what actions/dialogue is happening this page (typing out the dialogue first) -> draw the panel shapes -> draw the rough image -> move the dialogue and draw speech bubbles to create a flow along with the paneling
But that's only for the first step, details and composition will be modified and refined or completely rework in the second step, sketching the actual page. This method, I've taken 20min-1hr for each page, which I feel is a slow pace and a result of not having a super clear image of the sequence of events before going in (having a hard limit on page count slows things down a bit too with planning a page). Presumably someone with more skill and experience can do it much faster (also probably doesn't help that I'm only doodling with my mouse... not the quickest medium).

>>4673656
Forgot to mention that I normally wouldn't bother for a serialization, chapters don't typically need this much planning out because of the lack of a strict page limit. This guy >>4673457 has the right idea, they're basically a waste of time. I would only use them for stuff like one-shots where I need a hard ending point planned out.

>>4673471
Unless you're spending a year on each book, comics are ALL ABOUT settling on the first thing that works. It's romantic to think about diehards who scrap entire manuscripts because "it's just not good enough!" or whatever but that's simply not a realistic approach.

>>4673548
I'm actually considering including a page for a translation guide, but I don't want to accidentally piss off some translator who then intentional bungles it...

>>4673684
do you have any jap friends? i'm considering reaching out to an old buddy (who turned me into a weeb in the first place)
i'm sure if you threw them a couple bucks they might be open to helping
failing that you could hire your own if your budget allows

>>4673689
Nope but I know enough about spoken japanese to fake it. Stuff like "translate this to "-sensei" not "shishou"" and the like. I wouldn't try to translate the whole thing myself, but there are some intricacies to japanese that is lost if you don't keep them in mind and noted down (just as there is for english). Just gotta remember you're writing for a panel of japanese judges. Stuff like honorifics are important for showing the relationship between characters but the english equivalents are usually awkward or not-quite-accurate. Better to be sure and just tell them "yeah this character refers to this other character without any honorifics, but everyone else with -san" rather then let them guess (or worse, just make shit up).

>>4673611
>10-12 panels per page
Wew lad you need to cut back on those it crowds the page too much.
Aside form that it's pretty gud though

>>4673648
I like when you build up a relationship between two characters and then you give one amnesia so the other one goes through horrible emotional pain and maybe the amnesiac even leaves to go live their own life. That shit is fun.

>>4673758
Yeah, it’s got a lot of potential. It’s like Isekai. It’s another overdone narrative device that puts people off because it’s been done poorly. These days Isekai is synonymous with “loser NEET is transported to a Medieval Fantasy videogame world.” When in truth, Digimon, Wizard of Oz, and Alice in Wonderland, and to a certain extent Enter the Matrix, are all Isekai and do a good job at showcasing the variety and potential in that narrative device.

“Battle royale” is another one. Also, I believe Save the Cat has a list of the most common ones in film even. But if you really dig into it, most stories can be broken into a number of narrative devices that help kickstart a plot. You know, “disarm the bomb” (Jojo SC is a good example of this in a less literal way), “buddy adventure” (Emperor’s New Groove, and other similar stories), “rescue the princess” (Bleach had this twice, Star Wars, One Piece did it 3x, etc...). It’s good to learn to break down famous stories into these sorts of formulas to understand how they tick.

>>4673656
how do you create a 3d perspective? I'm having difficulty getting variety with my method of making 1,2 and 3 point perspective grids with a shape tool.

>>4673539
>>4673570
>>4673656
>>4673684
Thank you anons. That clears it all up for me.

>>4673822
I just use the line tool in CSP (hotkeyed of course) to place lines quickly. I'm not very good so I end up placing lines then undoing over and over til I find something I like. Actually doing grids and shit is a task for the finished page, I wouldn't ever waste time on proper construction for a name. This part is not supposed to look good or even technically correct.
Placing characters and environments in a 3d plane is what I'm specifically trying to practice in drawing this one-shot, but I think I kinda suck at it.

>>4673833
If you're not using a tool for those sketches then you have a good eye for perspective and interesting camera angles. If I don't use a tool I have trouble keeping a consistent vanishing point. But then I probably rely on the tools too much instead of just letting it flow baby.

I have a difficult time drawing inside the panels. It feels cramped trying to conform to the panel size.

When is it acceptable to have characters against a solid BG vs a fully drawn scene?

>>4673886
Introduction, photo for documents, intense emotion of shock/loneliness/etc, flashbacks, "senpai waves from the heaven", etc.
The question is backwards, you should ask "how do I convey [something] to the readers in best possible way?".

Do you guys have page layouts already visualized when writing scripts? Or is that something you figure out later?

>>4673896
Before I start sketching I review the script and just close my eyes and visualize it.

>>4673580
> The shading is alright but everything is shaped like a marshmallow, so there's not too much variety with the lighting.

You should probably read it or at least look at some of the pages before coming to that conclusion. Lots of manga don't even have a proper semblance of lighting in the first place.

>>4673756
They're fine. Most of the panels are small actions and /or variations, so the pages don't feel that crowded. That's too much dialogue for two pages, though.

>>4673267
I lterally can't think of any story. I feel like less of a human.

>>4673884
So don't. Plenty of very successful mangaka don't bother, so why should you?

>>4673886
Up to you mostly but you generally need to show the readers the who, the what and the where. If the "where" is already known or doesn't really matter that's when you can skip BGs.

>>4675081
Don't let it get you down. What do you want to draw? Maybe if there's something you want to draw (like, a guy with chainsaws for hands killing demons or something) you can just stitch together a thin story that allows you to draw that.

>>4673648
>>4673758
>>4673817 im a onepice fan ever since i been here on 4chan i started to realize how trash it is and how much plot holes it has .one thing oda wrote that i was too gullible to realize is how he gave sabo amnesia this was the worst cases of amnesia i ever watched he got his memory back after ace his brother died

How do you study other manga? Do any of you go through and duplicate the manga, page by page? Or do you only study when you run into a problem with your own manga, and want to see how other artists deal with that issue?

>>4673591
Read lots of manga with amnesia and decide for yourself which manga pulled it off well and which didn't. Often times it's used as a "fish out of water" device and allows the author to more naturally have others explain the world/powers involved in the manga. Some manga which I think pull off amnesia (whether it's because the MC starts off with amnesia or has temporary amnesia) well are Zatch Bell, Made In Abyss, Monster, Pluto, Dorohedoro, and Death Note.

>>4675383
I have tons of books that I pull up as references when drawing/thumbnailing. I also (Re)read them in Japanese on my free time, and pay attention to layouts and other notable things like flow and composition. I’m considering keeping a notebook and thumbnailing the layouts when I read.

>>4673896
I can't visualize so when I'm writing I try to break it down into what the most important actions or transitions to show are. I also account for how big and slow or small and fast I want a moment to go by. The bigger the panel, the bigger the moment, you know? If you just have a general outline of how you want it to go, you can do your layout and then decide if you think it makes sense or not and do a few adjustments from there or move things around to make really cool layouts.

How would you go around writing a mute character?

>>4675453
First person perspective, lots of observational internal monologue.

Unless you mean mute like an RPG protag... in which case, that depends on your narrative objective. Why are they mute? Is it comedic? Dramatic?

>>4675383
>How do you study other manga?
By reading them. Duh?
I just read them and try to remember the stuff I liked, cool paneling and so on. Try to keep track of the things you like and don't like, and try to THINK of why you like them or don't like them.
For example, I really like Konjiki no Gash despite it being chock full of cliches and paper-thin characters. Ordinarily I wouldn't like that stuff at all, so I think it's important to understand WHY I like Konjiki no Gash despite it mostly consisting of stuff that I don't like.
So, analyzing the execution of that manga, I can understand why I like it. It's not because the fights are good, a lot of them are kinda meh with unclear artwork. It's because the author makes sure to focus on the character's emotions, and makes sure to keep the story moving. It never feels like it slows down the pace, and that works because it's a story that defines its end-point very early on (when all the demon children are eliminated). There are many memorable moments in that manga because the author is accutely aware of what his characters are feeling in each moment and focuses on making THAT clear moreso than focusing on making the choreography of the fight scenes clear.

But that doesn't mean I necessarily want to copy that. Part of studying things you like is recognizing what you want to copy and what you don't want to copy. I said before that the fight scenes aren't very clear. That's a flaw I don't want to copy... so instead, let's look at a series with very clear fight scenes, like JoJo or Baki, and analyze what makes their fight scenes so good.

You study and analyze works that you thought excelled in the areas you want to excel in too. Of course, in order to know what manga excels in these areas, you have to read a lot of manga and be able to recognize when a manga excels in a particular area. Only way to do that is, well, to read a shitload of material and do a shitload of thinking.

I'm trying to write and draw within the tradition of both Christine Weston Chandler and David Foster Wallace. Any tips to get the CWC style going? I think this is a little too flamboyant compared to the risky yet beautifully minimalistic style of CWC.

>>4675918
I love this and wanna see more of your stuff.

>>4675926
We're posting it in our manga/poetry issue of VORE zine. It'll be free, just watch out for it in the next month or two on @zine.v0re on instagram.

Here's the original.

>>4675926

do people like transformations like when the MC transforms into some kind of animal beast should i use this trope in my story or will that be a furry insert

>>4675918
Well he uses crayons, so draw with crayons for a more authentic feel.

>>4675954
Make what you want to make anon, shitty, vapid """critique""" like "lol furries" is only levied by people who wouldn't be interested in the work anyway and is thus to be discarded.

Do you guys ever deviate from the script you've written, and fly off-the-cuff with your drawings? Is that a common occurence, or do I just need to get better at writing scripts?

>>4676074
I don't really write a script. I just kind of know the basic plot and move things around when I'm doing the roughs.

What's the difference in boring panels vs exciting fun panels? I can never get mine to seem exciting enough.

I'm extremely new so I was wondering what are the meaning or reason for the default lines for a CSP page. My guess is that it has to do with printing. Are there any lines I shouldn't go over as a rule of thumb?

>>4676659
https://www.manga-audition.com/japanesemanga101_024/

>>4676703
This is great, thank you!

>>4676602
>boring vs exciting panels
I think that's all composition man. Like, lots of rhythm lines, leading lines, and diagonal lines. Extreme perspective, etc.

Have you guys seen this shit?!
https://medibang.com/contest/kyoto-manga2020/entry/

Look up the stuff people are coming up with in this other contest, Way better stuff than in the Tezuka one. But set the page language in spanish. There's a lot of overlaping submissions from the Tezuka contest in the english version of the page.
https://medibang.com/contest/kyoto-manga2020/entry/

Why are comics so hard??? What resource helped you most anons?? How do you all know so much about this already???

>>4676948
Doesn't look any better at all. The best ones there are already in the Tezuka contest.

>>4676067
i have been practicing anthropomorphic drawings it wont be those cute anthro

>>4677023
Read manga or comics and make your own observations. Use your head. Not everything comes with a manual or a course outline.

https://twitter.com/Key_framed/status/1275134012944719873?s=19
https://twitter.com/Key_framed/status/1275140428149542914?s=19

Looks like we might have another barrel 'o fun entering the contest

>>4677319
mark my words no top level artists gonna enter
either improving ones who legit love the medium and want to try

and shitty ones who have dunning-krueger just cuz they draw a little above /beg/

>>4677163
For some reason the entries in Spanish, Japanese, chinese and korean are different from the other languages which recycle quite a lot from the Tezuka contest. So far, the best are in spanish and chinese.

>>4677023
Read "Making Comics" by Scott McCloud. It's the book that has helped me the most in all the years I've been studying the medium. It's way better than "Understanding Comics" from the same author, from a creative standpoint, since the later focuses on... well, understanding the medium while the former is about... well, making them.

>>4676602
Manga senpai explains it really well somewhere in here. I can't remember which video though but maybe this will be of use to you somehow.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLErhLIguWupu7kNbgUpCyJvzluc9atp9K

You should also read Scott McCloud and Will Eisner books.

>>4677387
Understanding comics is really good if you're just getting into comics and don't know much about them. Making comics is where it's at though.

>>4677284
Okay

>>4676602
>What's the difference in boring panels vs exciting fun panels? I can never get mine to seem exciting enough.
Speedlines brother. They fuckin' work.

>>4677023
>How do you all know so much about this already???
We could all be talking shit out of our ass for all anyone here knows, there's no identities tied to our works and little work being posted to back any of this advice up. Chances are everybody here kind of sucks in at least one area of comic making, if not many. Should always take advice given anonymously with a grain of salt.

>>4673625
>>4673652
>>4673756
>>4674500
Thanks bros. I really appreciate the constructive feedback as well.

How many pages should your exposition be?
If it can be done in one page/4 or 5 panels that's good right?

>>4676602
Do some research on paneling and panel flow. Learning how to make the reader follow the panels in a creative way naturally is a great skill to learn.

For simple stuff, Witch Hat Atelier is a short read and chock full of inspiration for neat layouts. Examples:

https://i.imgur.com/gqGXq6m.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/X7cdBFo.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/VNVzLSU.png
https://i.imgur.com/wDnXBP4.jpg

For action stuff, take a look at Tsugumomo. Yoshikadzu is great at keeping a great back and forth flow when it comes to combat

>>4677763
That's a question impossible to answer. Use your own judgment. What's the focus, the story or the action? Do you expect people to be interested in what you're explaining? Can you explain the concept you're trying to exposit quickly, or would that be silly? Decide yourself and do what you think is appropriate to playing into your strengths.

That said the audience for this competition will want to be entertained and excited. They will not consider talking heads and dialogue bubbles to be particularly exciting no matter what they're talking about.

>>4677023
I will never stop recommending this book, it's great for newbies who are baffled by the comic making process.

>>4677771
>That said the audience for this competition will want to be entertained and excited. They will not consider talking heads and dialogue bubbles to be particularly exciting no matter what they're talking about.

I'm bad at explaining things/myself but this answered what I was trying to ask. Thanks

>>4676074
I'm doing the entirety of this one without storyboards (just very loose thumbnails every couple pages)
I have a general story outline, theme, idea and ending, I just have to be mindful of the page limit and keep everything relevant

Is it a good idea to learn digital painting to make comics? Just to build a versatile skillset.

>>4678072
Learning to paint nice backgrounds at the very least is a good skillset. If you're gonna be painting your characters too, more power too you

>>4678077
that's what I was thinking too, thanks

>>4678072
There's nothing specific to painting that you'd need for making a comic, other than illustrating covers, but even then you don't need to be a good painter to make attractive covers.

>>4677763
You usually want to get to your hook somewhere between page 1-3. If you're going to give background at the beginning just make sure it's really interesting. If it's a bore to read people are just going to say "fuck this" and stop reading.

>>4673698
>>4673689
>>4673684
Can you even send it in Japanese? I thought that you had to send it in your language (of course, as long as it's on the list)

>>4678153
Actually, that's a good point. Dunno if they would appreciate us going through the effort of translating our work ourselves. After all, if we can do that, then we should be submitting to the jap contest anyway.

>>4678286
>After all, if we can do that, then we should be submitting to the jap contest anyway.

I'm submitting one in english and one in jap for good measure

>>4678072
lighting and composition will take you very far

>>4678153
Japanese language entries are not allowed in the Medibang contest. If you want to enter it in Japanese, you gotta submit directly to Jump for the usual Tezuka contest, which has a page limit of 31 pages.

>>4678153
>>4678286
>>4678361
Japanese isn't allowed, you will waste an entry by doing this. As the other anon said, if you want to submit to the regular Japanese only contest you may do that. If they see any Japanese it's an immediate disqualification. It's in their rules.

>>4678414
what about japanese SFX?

>>4678420
That's probably fine since it's usually part of the art in the panel but you should probably ask if it's alright just to be sure. I think the most important part is that your text for speech bubbles and narrations are in any of the accepted languages that are not Japanese. Otherwise they'll just think you're a Japanese trying to get into the international contest.

>>4673267
How do I make a unique character design without it looking stupid (like Yu-Gi-Oh where they just keep making more ridiculous hair for each new hero) or derivative of other shonen characters? I want my character to stand apart and not just look like your average isekai NEET, but I don't want him to look stupid or look like someone else's character.

Any advice, or can you guys point me in the right direction at least? Thanks.

>>4678752
Learn character design.

>>4678752
Just look what all the memorable manga characters you know have in common

>>4678786
I've been trying, I've read skillful huntsman and watched the Ctrl+paint videos on design, I've gone through the related section in Framed Ink, I've even looked through shitty books on character design. Still don't get it.

>>4678815
>I've read skillful huntsman and watched the Ctrl+paint videos on design, I've gone through the related section in Framed Ink, I've even looked through shitty books on character design
found your problem, you read too much how to books and don't read and draw enough manga

Storytelling in Naruto is superb. Each and every chapter ends with "yes! yes!! what next??". And it's pacing is just right combination of battles and exposition.
No wonder it exploded in popularity.

>>4678824
I think reading and drawing a lot of manga is part of my problem because my characters don't look very original. Just consuming and copying doesn't fix it...

>>4678884
get your inspiration elsewhere. for example, araki uses foreign fashion models and actors for his character designs.

>>4678896
>araki uses foreign fashion model
I just read about the collab between Araki and Gucci, pretty spooky

>>4678884
The main thing about character design is too communicate what a character is suppose to be and their role in the story.

My suggestion is to find what kind of character designs you love and try to emulate them while putting a interesting spin on it. I love designs that are very much rooted in actually history/fashion, that are overall simple, but have some complex parts to them.

For example, I love jim lee's xmen redesigns. He takes the problem of comic book heros generally looking retarded running around in spandex. He simply gives characters like Rogue, Gambit a jacket over their spandex to give them personality while keeping the general super hero look. Same thing with early kof. Geese Howard is just a dude in a yukata, but he's memorable because he big white dude with scars all over with the top half of the yukata pulled down.

Its not necessarily about being original, but interesting while telling the viewer what this character is.

>>4673267
> isn't everyone gonna get BTFO by the JP entries?
No, separate prize pools

that's false, it's only that westerners go through medibang and japanese entries go directly to the editors that filter through mediocre work

>>4679042
We've been over this several times. The rules and results are different for the JP entries and they are not the same contest.

>>4678815
Study how characters are designed for videogames. Primarily fighting games, since they always have top notch and very memorable designs.

Design is s problem solving skill, you can’t design a character if you don’t have a problem to solve. In other words, start asking questions and work your way up from there. Character design starts in the writing.

>>4678815
This is a very condensed but really good sumary of character design and it's purpose. It may help to point you towards what you want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wm9ti-gzLM

>>4678396
>>4678414
I wasn't thinking of translating it anyway but I would try it if it were valid. Also, you can send submissions to the regular Tezuka contest from outside of Japan? I didn't know

>>4679168
As long as they’re in Japanese, they accept them.

>>4678896
>>4679004
>>4679113
>>4679141
Thanks you guys, this has been very helpful. I'll do my best to make good use of your advice! Ganbatte to all of you!

Where do you guys go to learn vis-dev and design? Or do you just wing it?

does every manga need a tournament arc how do you make a tournament arc on top of that how do you make a power system

>>4680788
i like nen power system but nen is too supernatural for my world i need a power system like alchemy

>>4680788
No, up to you and up to you.
Make shit up, we can't tell you how to do that.

>>4680788
>no punctuation
you need to be gassed

>>4680893
You on your period?

Is the contest always international or is it just this time? I want to participate in the next one, but i'm not a jap.

>>4673611
How did you get the screentones?

>>4680979
Just dwnld a zip file and u g

>>4680949
I'm a Russian man. And I hate faggots that ignore their punctuation regardless of their home language.

>>4680793
Then make one like alchemy.

>>4680965
Just this one, but they’re happening more frequently.

If I want to start an animation studio, what are the necessary steps to doing so?

>>4681731
Step 1 is have a shit ton of venture capital.

In order to get to step 1, you're either going to have to be fucking loaded, or have a great resume in order to convince people that you know what you're doing. And if you want to get that resume, you're either going to have to make some crazy shit on your own or work on some renowned projects.

So, really, you should work on Step 0, which is "have a career."

>>4681731
>>4681772
fuck, posted this in the wrong general.

Thanks for your answer anyways though. So I just have to get crazy good and have investors believe in me?

>>4681822
Unless you're loaded, yeah. Animation takes a lot of manpower, which means you're going to need a lot of hands, and you're going to have to pay all those people. The only way that people are going to trust you enough to finance you is if they're sure you can manage a studio or make good art, which in turn means that you have to have some proof for both.

Of course, you can always just finance the venture yourself and pay people off, but I don't know if that's within your means or not.

If I just drop everything and draw comics all day, will my improvement stagnate?

>>4682496
Improvement in what?

If you draw comics you'll get better at drawing comics.

>>4682496
Depends on what you mean by comics.
Do you mean drawing the same 3/4ths view blank expressions over and over or do you mean attempting dynamic angles and drawing different things?
Because doing a lot of the latter will make you better at drawing while the former will cause you to stagnate.

>>4682519
>>4682520
I'll of course do studies when I don't know how to draw something, and I'd do my best to make it as high quality as possible. I just won't be copying loomis for the sake of copying loomis anymore. Is that okay?

>>4682540
I'd recommend you learn some perspective/form/values/composition and anatomy so you don't get frustrated when you're making comics. But you also don't have to have amazing art if you're wanting to learn the basics of comic making and panel flow stuff to get a feel for it early on. You could do up some drafts with a general idea of what you want and then go for it. If you find enjoyment in making comics, then learn to make comics and have fun.

If it's what you like and what you want to do, then do it. Nobody's stopping you.

>>4682540
Making comics is very good practice yes so long as you challenge yourself and don't slip into only drawing within your comfort zone.

>>4682561
>>4682576
Thank you anons. I'm taking the dive.

>>4682583
Ganbatte, anon!

>>4680965
As >>4681518 said, this one being "international" is a special case. But they do however also accept submissions from foreign artists in the normal contest (which is held two times per year), as long as it's written in Japanese. This special "international" version is just for works that aren't written in Japanese.

This is a somewhat off topic question, but fuck it. I'm gonna ask it anyways.
Do you have any tips / suggestions about digital inking? I only ink on paper and I'm at a loss when it comes to digital
It all looks bad, muddy, even blurry at times, even at 600 dpi. Maybe i'm approaching it wrong.
I tried everything, from csp to procreate, any kind of brush, but nothing seems to kick it for me. Call me a fag all you want but I really need some help.
Does anyone craft his own brushes, or can suggest me something, anything? Just a bit of insight from you guys who also ink and draw comics, Thanks
I'm leaving this image as an advance payment

>>4682583
good luck pal. see you at the ceremony

>>4683493
Post some of your lines so we can see what you're working with.

we have our winner, boys

https://twitter.com/y_naf/status/1276960321434013696?s=20

>>4683493
>It all looks bad, muddy, even blurry
post what you're talking because it sounds like you've got some funky brush settings.

>>4683493
I just use the G-pen brush with a paper texture on it. If you want it to look more like real ink the daub brushes are good, someone posted them on /ic/ recently.

If that stuff doesn't help it's really just a matter of practicing this shit. I could help more if you posted something but going off of vague descriptions this is the best I can do for ya man

>>4683360
How often do they do the international contests?

>>4673591
kamen rider agito

How long does one page take you?

>>4673267
Which how to draw manga book do you guys recommend?
Looking for one that actually teaches you how to draw the figure.

>>4683816
Because he has good art? The best art in the world isn't going to matter if he doesn't have a good story and characterization, you know. We'll see when we can read his entry.

>>4684919
None, there's no point. Learn to draw first, then stylize however you want. There's no set "manga style" and if you think there is then you're an idiot who doesn't read the media he idolizes.

>>4684919
Loomis! For real, drawing is just drawing.

>>4684876
This >>4684956 but less abrasive. You can always learn directly from the art you like.

>>4684956
Alright then, how do I learn how to draw correctly?

>>4685010
Draw a lot. Reading books, drawing from life and drawing from other artist's drawings will help, perhaps a lot, but ultimately the main thing is drawing a lot. Practice perspective first of all because it's crucial and helps in all areas of illustration, but you should practice in any way that keeps you drawing since, again, the most important thing is mileage. Reading books won't make you good at drawing, drawing will.
Don't worry if you suck, everyone does at one point.

Heres a fairly simple page from my comic that doesn't give away too much. Really hoping I can get the whole thing done in time

>>4685010
The other anon's answer was good, but you need to be doing lots and lots of figure drawing. Get on quickposes.com and do 90 minutes of 5 minute poses every single day. Read Andrew Loomis and draw from his book for an hour a day on the side every single day. Watch one Vilppu lecture every Sunday. On Quickposes.com, make an account and try to hit the "100 hour" certificate by the end of the next two months. Buy George Bridgman's book and draw from it whenever you need help with a bodypart. Lots and lots of figure drawing.

>>4685041
Art is looking good, but
>I mean
>I mean
>I guess
to much of american teenspeak

>>4685210
Thanks for catching that

>>4673267
This is the first time I'm trying to give serious writing a shot and I'm completely overwhelmed. I know the characters I wanna use but I'm having a hard time coming up with a story I won't hate after one day. Like writing seems to be the harder part here than art.

>>4685253
You are welcome, sorry if I come across too harsh. You should ask some one to read your dialog lines though.

>>4683493
If you can scan them at the desired resolution, I don't see why you couldn't make the page layout in digital and then just import your ink

>>4685259
Writing IS the harder part because it’s less straightforward to learn than art, and more reliant on critique from experienced people.

>>4685473
I just wonder with a one-shot like this exposition seems to be rather pointless. Or like extensive world-building. Is doing a cold open better? Like starting with characters that already are somewhere instead of some nobody who wants to be the very best?

>>4685602
idk about anyone else but I'm using this as an opportunity to prototype a setting I've been working on for a few years. Already just putting stuff onto a page has helped accelerate building it.

I think it's entirely up to you what you do. I'm not expecting to win with my entry at all, to me it's just practice, but to someone who wants to try and actually place in this contest, you just need to something that entertains, however you go about it.

>>4685602
It's a self-contained story, so anything that doesn't service the narrative you're actively telling is a waste of time. Any worldbuilding you do should be to create atmosphere, and should be done visually, not verbally. Backstory is fine, though, again, only if it pushes the story forward, or helps with the set up.

All that aside, starting right in the middle of the action is never a bad thing. It's actually common wisdom in cinema.

>>4685849
Starting right in the middle of the action is a very slippery slope though. Without beginning your story building up the main character for at least a few pages and then getting into the inciting incident.

You could be focused too much on plot by the end of the action scene that your main characters characterization is left to the wayside

>>4685041
Please change your font. Everything is in bold and it looks like trash. At least don't make everything in the speech bubbles bold man its awful to look at.

>>4685041
>>4686809
Also, bottom right panel "you're*" and you need to not write in all-caps because most people will read that as yelling.

>>4678939
this "woman" looks like a tranny

>>4686815
All manga is in caps, are you retarded?

>>4686944
Have you never seen Araki's works? Every male (after part 4)is pretty and every woman is quite handsome.

>>4686944

>>4686944
pyw my guy

>>4686963
What the fuck manga are you reading? None of the ones I've read are like that. Even if they were they wouldn't make it all bold and all caps you dumbfuck. If it's going to be all caps you don't pick the most aggressive don't available for it. It's eye rape.

>>4687467
every manga is printed in caps what the fuck are (You) reading?

>>4687467

>>4687467
Take your meds, shizo

>>4687467
even the shitty first-print version is in caps

>>4687467

>>4687467
everyone look at this dumb nigga and laugh

>>4687467
imagine goofing this hard

>>4687482
second part of story advice

>>4687467
it has nothing to fo with caps or bold. it's serif. comic speech is traditionally sans-serif.

>>4687495
Yes those are the words I was looking for. Serif vs sans serif. Everything this dumbass posted is easy on the eyes and not everything on the page is bold as fuck and competing for your attention even though it's in all caps. Fucking retard is just proving my point about how when manga is in all caps they use a font that doesn't look like trash like his manga page did.

Here i fixed up the font, but it doesnt really match the tone im looking for its more “adventurous” than im looking for. I need one with nice spacing like this but a little bit more blocky and bold

>>4687647
Much more legible and it doesn't detract from the art and paneling anymore. I hope you can find a font that still looks nice and meets your needs.

>>4687647
i think this actually matches your art much better

>>4687659
Yeah ill just keep it this one then lol

>>4687494
Where do I learn how to do manga art vs illustration art? I've never heard of that distinction before

>>4687691
I think its trying to say that with manga focus on the readability of the art first and making it look pretty second. Its more important to get your story across

>>4687691
>manga = whimsical(expressive, dynamic, sequential etc) illustrations with an emphasis on storytelling

>illustration = conveyance of an idea through use of drafting techniques, more emphasis on expression of an idea rather than a narrative, but an illustration can also serve that purpose

>>4687696
>>4687703
I see, that makes sense. thanks

>>4685259
It's too late now. But Assuming you can manage to write and draw a page per day, you should be fine. 60 days left

>>4685721
You talk like a faggot. Your "writing" stench can be inhaled from here

>>4688020

>>4688079
Don't feed the crabs friend

>>4687518
Dude just take the L. You were fucking wrong and got roasted. Don't try and make your post into something it wasn't.

>>4685041
Hey anon. How serious are you about manga? There’s a few nitpick/ pointers I’d like to give you(since I like your style), but don’t want to waste my time if you’re happy where you’re at.

>>4688195
I mean sure man, i want to make my manga the best it can be so go ahead

>>4688195>>4688385
Gonna start by saying I'm no pro. And there's a few different ways to go about rearranging panels. This is just my personal two cents.
I shortened your panels from 6 panels to 4. Mostly because of head repeats that seemed redundant.
Establishing shot: If I actually went and redrew the whole thing, I'd add a better view of the office. (Or more people if there are multiple people there. Or is it her personal office? I can't tell.) Probably add your MC walking through the door, so the reader can see him entering the scene. I wasn't exactly sure where cactus-kun or your MC were in the establishing shot. Was cactus-kun in another room, running into the office? Or did he spot MC from her shoulder?
Since the second row is dedicated to Louise's character appearance. I added her to the establishing shot, but facing away from the reader.

Second row: Added an extra thing for her character plate. Just so her name and title are separate and easier to read on first glance. You can probably embellish it to make it look nicer, than my sketch.

Third Row: Added a beam of excitement for her. If I were to redraw this, I might make her stand up and point at the MC. Depending on how much quirkiness or excitement you'd like to show.
Then have her sit down pouting on the last panel.

Overall, I like your style anon. My last complaint is probably your line weight and the fuzziness of your line work in general. Are you using some sort of blur effect over your line work?

>>4688753
Also. I actually messed up my own spacing between panels. Look at a manga page, you'll know what I mean.

>>4688753
Would you recoomend me a book or something, drew like 12 pages for my draft and was going to continue until i realised my writing is kinda weak and the layout could be improved vastly.

>>4688826
One thing to remember is that things with thicker lines come forward more than things with thinner lines. So you want more detail and thicker lines in things closer to you/the "camera", less detail and thinner lines for things receding into the background

And don't rely so much on close-ups it makes the page crowded and tense

>>4688826
A book for writing or drafting? There's a few resources I found online, that kind of helped me figure out how to go about managing scenes on a page. But, I'm really new to the whole making manga thing.
I can try to answer any specific questions tho.

>>4688843
Layout/drafting.
I'm using photoshop and having to flip layer by layer for each page. I cant see them next to each other or in thumbnails for each page so I'm cramming in and my character is just going close up and far and wherever. It doesn't rhyme.

>>4688836
I will do that when i start all over again. Thank you!

>>4688854

Put this website thru a translator, it has some really good resources. https://raon-terastorys.com/komawari_2/

コマわり(komawari) = panel layout, if you want to google for extra stuff regarding the matter.

I use Clip Studio EX for everything. It has a built in 3D preview so you can actually see how your story reads. Move pages about, ect.
I know some people draft on paper tho. And there's a good app if you have a drawing tablet for just basic drafting on the go, called MangaName by Medibang.

Personally. Story wise. I write my dialogue first. Than when I'm happy with it, I draft my story.

>>4688898
Alright, everyone's fucking shilling this shit. I'm gonna pirate it right fucking now.

>>4688753
Fucking amazing critique man thank you so much. This is my first real manga that im doing (ive been a illustrator for awhile and im only 17) so I have to focus more on the flow! Ill try much harder with that thank you dude

>>4688988
I feel happy for you, but rip

>>4688988
Hey you're welcome. You're doing well for 17, much better than when I was that age.

The biggest hurdle in manga(besides the art), will be dialogue and general storytelling. I'm kind of curious to see how your story develops.

Good luck anon.

>>4688191
>>4687467
>Even if they were they wouldn't make it all bold and all caps you dumbfuck. If it's going to be all caps you don't pick the most aggressive don't available for it. It's eye rape.

Can you not read, dumbfuck?

>>4689212
>Also, bottom right panel "you're*" and you need to not write in all-caps because most people will read that as yelling.

That's not what you wrote you fucking moron, your idiocy is on public display in the thread. You can't take it back.

Take. Your. Fucking. L.

>>4688988
>ive been a illustrator for awhile and im only 17
You should at least lie and say 18. If anyone felt like reporting you you'd get b&, since "you must not be under 18" rule is basically the only rule that's always enforced.

>>4689306
Those were both me you idiot. Learn to read a damn thread.

>>4689465
I know they were both you dipshit, the point is that you were fucking wrong to a massive degree and then backpedaled like an absolute brainlet and tried to cover your asshattery with "w-well I really just meant the font!!" when that's clearly not what you were getting at.

Maybe work on your *own* thread reading skills, since you quoted >>4688191 and >>4687467 as being the same person.

>>4689465 #
I know they were both you dipshit, the point is that you were fucking wrong to a massive degree and then backpedaled like an absolute brainlet and tried to cover your asshattery with "w-well I really just meant the font!!" when that's clearly not what you were getting at.

I know this is sort of unrelated but does anyone remember how the protagonist of bakuman got better at drawing? In the first chapters he buys what I would asume is the japanese equivalent of loomis but later on he throws it into the trash saying "why did I bought this garbage", did he just draw then?

>>4687647
Hey man, doin good. Wanted to point out that the way you utilize ellipses (...) is very wonky. You also do that double period thing .. which is very wrong.

Don't use ellipses at the start of a sentence, as it makes it look like you just left out whatever the person was talking about before the sentence started. Don't use them after a period either.

Using them as a pregnant pause is fine though, just don't overdo it

A good example of the dialogue would be

>This place always smells like piss...
>Louise better have a good reason to see me in person.

>Louise, this IS your office... right?

>>4688753
You helped him so nicely. Just witnessed kindness on /ic/, now I can leave this board.
Thank you based anon

>>4689677
Yes, mostly mileage. In late chapters he started timing himself and tried to start inking rougher drafts.

>>4689607
I literally said if they do use all caps they don't go for a bold and aggressive font. You're retarded and your reading comprehension is shit. It's a wonder you like to frequent a text based site when you can't even read.

>>4688753
Just another thing for that guy, SJ isn't accepting grayscale only monotone

>>4689844
Its in screentone, I just compressed the image so you cant see it

>>4689839
lol, stay mad anon

>>4689880
What's the point of circling the replies? Cool I can see where one guy spammed a whole lot of pages all linked to one post.

>you are retard, admit it
>n-no, you are retarded!
Cease this faggotry this instant and go draw you maggots!

>>4689987
it wasn't just one guy
t. one of the guys

>>4685041
A good rule of thumb for lettering is that there should be enough space around the text to fit a capital letter.

>>4690001
Every. Damn. Thread.
Without fail, every single thread we have at least one of these long pointless arguments wasting space.

>>4690028
Thanks. It's obvious now, that my perception is completely fucked by reading too much of fan-translated manga.

>>4690032
welcome to 4chan can I take your order

>>4690044
One stupid argument please. Also pyw.

>>4690034
Fan translated manga sometimes have trouble fitting horizontal text into a vertical speech bubble. As long as you follow a few basic rules, your lettering will look fine.
I think if you're still not satisfied with the font you chose, keep looking. Font Squirrel and Myfonts are decent websites for browsing handdrawn style fonts, and if you have money to spare, there are services that can turn your handwriting into a font.

>>4690085
>>4690034
>>4688753
This should help with fonts

>>4690085
There are free services for turning handwriting into font too.

>>4690085
I'm different anon, not the author of that page.
>Fan translated manga sometimes have trouble fitting translated text into original bubble
yeah

>>4690088
Oh, this is useful. I was in need of some shouting fonts.

Similarly, anyone have any idea for what fonts to use in Japanese? I’ll ask around over here too, but I’m just trying my luck in hopes that someone might know.

>>4690129
https://atadistance.net/2016/06/29/macos-sierra-new-japanese-fonts/

>>4690129
Google says the most common is AntiGothi, a combo of gothic type for kanji and antique type for kana. But there's a lot more you can use depending on your comic and context.
http://hyperwyrm.co.uk/mangafonts#:~:text=The%20quintessential%20manga%20typeface%20style%3A%20Antique%20%26%20Gothic&text=Also%20known%20as%20アンチゴチ%20(AntiGothi,of%20two%20distinct%20character%20styles.

>>4678752
if you want a unique character design you should start with some unique items that represent the characters and form a strong sillouette. google the rest.

Highly considering entering the contest with a sports story featuring two female leads. Is it not shonen enough to do a oneshot about a girls team? I know a girls soccer series is running in Monthly Shonen Magazine (all leads except the male helper coach are girls) and Cross Manage was a thing in Jump (the MC was a dude and the manager of a girl's lacrosse team), but it still feels a little outside the genre.

>>4690233
Write your characters pretending you're capturing the hype that most male centric shonen do, then swap em to female. Mai Ball did a fantastic job at capturing that

>>4690233
Shonen is allowed to have girls as the lead characters and shit. Just look at Yotsuba&, that manga is a shonen series but it's a slice of life about a girl that doesn't know anything about the world. It's totally fine to think outside the box with shonen and it can pay off really well.

"Shonen" just describes your target audience, boys between the ages of 12-18. Anything that would appeal to that audience that isn't straight up porn is just fine. So if you think your sports manga would appeal to them, make it and enter it!

>>4690233
Leave decision if it shounen enough to the judges, anon. Go for it!
Also tomboys are always relevant and are peak taste.

>>4690299
A tom boy main character would be great

>>4690233
Just don't make the two female leads gay like every single series does.

>>4687481
>Fansubbers use a font that imitates the handwritting of the names
B A S E D

Is there a difference between japanese and western writing Styles in general? Should I study japanese storytelling if I want to be a mangaka?

>>4692930
Yes. KiShoTenKetsu for East, while the west uses the 3-Act Structure primarily. Eastern writing derived from Chinese poetry and literature, while the West is born out Greek Drama and Epic Poetry.

That said, in modern times, a lot of eastern writers take the foundations from western writing and blend it with KSTK. If you wanna learn to write manga however, it’s highly recommended you learn the KSTK alongside some of the fundamentals of western screenplay.

Thoughts, so far

>>4693153
There’s a lot of nothing happening on this page. It seems like an introduction page, but what’s the point of the floating head panel? Are there going to be speech bubbles? Because you don’t have a lot of space left.

It’s fine to take up half a page for introducing new characters, but without proper context it’s hard to say if the top panel needs to be that big. Do you have any other pages?

>>4693167
There will be speech, but not a lot. I'm not the writer, but from what I understand the floating panel is just the guy saying something like "we're back".

The 1st huge panel will be the happy guy saying something like "surprise". Cat lady will probably utter something quick, too.

Bottom panel, the two women are basically gonna be saying WTF.

>>4693177
Oh, so does your writer do a rough draft and you draw it? It seems odd that you don’t have a proper script of any kind. It’d be better to design a page with the speech bubbles in mind imo. Especially since you work traditionally, you don’t have the freedom to move things around much.

The floating panel, doesn’t look that good tho. If the reading direction is left to right. The reader won’t read it first, but instead read it second.
>We’re back.
> Surprise!

Is probably the flow you want.
I’d probably make it a separate vertical panel and place it to the right.

>>4693153
love the design of the left girl, top panel, she's really cute
composition is a little boring but the character acting is pretty good on the first panel, though i'm not sure most girls just casually sit like they're waiting to be eaten out while reading a book
was she reading about her clit or something with her friend also in the room?

>>4692930
>>4693009
There's no practical difference between Kishotenketsu and the 3-act structure. All writing is based on character desire + obstacles, creating "turning points". The "Ten" part of Kishotenketsu is a twist. Each act ends on a "major reversal". Essentially, both story-telling systems are the same, just one is adapted towards 90 minute films and the other is more flexible.

>>4693284
The writers just give me the jist of page and I draw based on that.

The reading direction is left to to right, too. Thanks for the input.

>>4693375
Thanks.

I got the sitting reference from a pose app on Android, on top of the fact that I was trying to cram in her full body because our instructor says we don't do enough full bodies on our pages.

https://www.lulu.com/en/us/shop/scott-morse/fully-automatic-part-1-of-4/paperback/product-jdpyye.html
100 pages for $4.20

>>4694137
*note* the actual pages are cleaned up scans.

I have a confession to make. I only just finished my name for comp.
This has made me realize I really do not enjoy having a page limit. It's so much easier to write a comic when the only limit on how many pages the chapter is is how much you can draw before the deadline. I get that this is half the point of a one-shot, but man does it feel bad to realize you didn't leave yourself adequate pages for the conclusion you wanted.

>>4694771
use the one-shot as a pilot for your real story anon

>>4694771
Listen to >>4695094, if you think of your oneshot as a pilot it will come out less crowded plot/character-wise. You should only be introducing two main characters MAX in a oneshot and the plot should be a simplified opening to the big story you have in mind or a snapshot from it.

>>4695094
>>4695114
That's exactly what I've done.
Or rather, it's a vertical slice of the story, but same idea. I'm not going to any length to really introduce the characters or explain the setting or anything, it's just a simple story set in this setting with similar characters. My main problem is just that while I can fit the whole thing in, I think it feels little rushed toward the end and it's too late to make major revisions. Oh well, it's good practice and helps work out details I hadn't thought of before.

>>4695125
what i do is break my story into 5-page micro-arcs
6 of these and that's the Tezuka(JP) page limit
each micro-arc has a set-up, climax and "ending" which is more of a transition to the next micro-arc and i try to make it seamless so that the reader doesn't really pick up on it, they just keep wanting to see what happens next

>>4695145
and 1 to 2-or-3 micro-arcs make up a scene*

>>4673267

This is for my personal project, a webcomic but its kind of in manga style.

Sometimes I started working on a page in the middle of my storyboarded stuff because I knew exactly what I wanted out of it, but everything else leading up to it I couldn't quite figure out. I couldn't engage every page with same level of interest, but they are still necessary for the narrative to make sense.

Hey, I'm a writer!
If anyone's still looking for a partner or struggling with their story for the Jump Tezuka 55 pager, I've got one ready to go that's pretty tight and fully storyboarded. If you've got good art, I'm down to collaborate.

>>4693862
There’s a significant difference between 3-A and KSTK, you kidding?

3-A is built around conflict-resolution, it absolutely requires conflict in order to work. Whereas KSTK does not, making the latter significantly more flexible. That’s not to say it’s “better” persay, especially since KSTK can work with conflict, and it can be wrapped around the 3-A structure in order to enhance it, making the KSTK more of a narrative technique, rather than just a structure. Like, you can use KSTK for dialogue, individual scenes, and even transitions, as well as more macro stuff like arcs and threads. Whereas the conflict-focused aspect of the 3-A pretty much limits it to just plot structure.


Their structure is significantly different too, with the KSTK being significantly more malleable too. 3-A pretty much has to go, set up > conflict > resolution. With a rising action, climax, and falling action. KSTK’s focus is significantly different, and due to the contrasting elements of the TEN, you’re able to stack multiple “TEN” back-to-back as well. Like, a way I could describe it that’s easy to understand is, KSTK focuses on revealing new information that contrasts or contradicts what’s been established, and then that's all tied together in the KETSU. It’s not exactly a twist, persay, “Twist” is an oversimplified of what TEN actually means in it’s native tongue. It’s more like:

Ki - set up the plot
Sho - Develop the characters/setting
Ten - add new information that either conflicts, contradicts what’s already been established, or hell, something seemingly entirely non-sequitur. This is more like a piece to the full puzzle that makes you think “wait, how does this all fit with what we already know?”
Ketsu - More like REVEAL, than resolution. A lifting of the veil to show the entire plot. You tie initial two parts with the TEN in a way that makes sense, giving your reader that “aha” moment once they reach this point.

>>4695180
Forgot pic.

Anyway, with that last example, it’s easy to see the flexibility in function of the KSTK. It can be used for a lot more than plot, to stuff like themes and so on... that’s not to say it’s better than 3-A. Sometimes the classic simple way to go isn’t bad. But, KSTK is useful in that you can layer it over a 3-A to enhance it. Moreover, the greatest strength of KSTK is that it allows for stories without any form of conflict at all, which is very common in Japanese media in fact, as the technique lets you makes the experience more about learning and discovery, rather than a clash of self, two ideals, or against the outside world. You look at all western media, and it centers around conflict, and again, that’s not a bad thing. But it’s interesting to note that there are no stories totally devoid of it, whereas in Asian media, particularly Japanese, there’s plenty.

This is why I say it’s important to learn BOTH techniques. Because the western standards create a good foundation and understanding for what makes a good story, and KSTK becomes a useful technique you’re able to employ from time to time in addition to what you have.

>>4694771
I actually really like the page limit. It forces you to trim the fat, and look at your work more critically. It also teaches you to be efficient with your panelling. Less is more.

>>4695180
I guess I didn't learn the same form of 3 act structure as you did. I got it from Robert McKee, whose whole teaching, when you get down to the purest substance of it, revolves around something he calls "the gap", which is literally the same thing as "ten". A lot of people have way too narrow of a concept of "conflict", when in reality all "conflict" is simply an "interruption of action". This really frees you up to write slice-of-life trivial stories.

In fact, Kishotenketsu, while its touted to be more flexible and adaptable than western ways of writing, is more restricting than McKee's way of writing. This is why a lot of Japanese writers tell you that you can shuffle Kishotenketsu into any order you want, plugging and pulling beats as you wish. When that happens, you get something a lot more similar to McKee.

The 3 act structure is just one way of adapting the concept of the gap to a 90 minute film. You don't have to write 3 acts, and you don't need to go "setup, conflict, resolution" (at least this is true for McKee, ive never read Syd Mead or got into Dramatica). An act isn't an arbitrary division of a story, its a unit of story that builds up to a major reversal. (a major "gap", or a major "ten") You can write 1 act stories, 2 acts, 3, 4, 5, etc. In fact, I mainly write short stories with McKee's method, which are 5-6 scenes, not even an act. (Scenes are classified as building up to minor reversals, sequences build up to moderate reversals, and acts up to major reversals)

It was my mistake to write about 3-act structure the way I did. The type of 3-act structure you're referring to is really a mistake, a horrible cliche that a lot of ignorant writers cling to.

If you have more questions about McKee or if you want any clarification of what I just said, I'd be happy to reply, there's a lot im leaving out and I love talking about this stuff.

>>4695159
Hey, not bad! Keep up the good work!

>>4695202
>>4695185
>>4695180
Hey guys, I'm just a passing rando, but thank you for your discussion! It was very interesting to read.
I'll go grab a copy of McKee's book and gonna search for more KSTK stuff.

>>4695265
Hirohiko Araki's book discusses Kishotenketsu in depth, in case you want further reading on that

>>4695268
I am, thank you.

>>4675268
>im a onepice fan ever since i been here on 4chan i started to realize how trash it is
You fell for shitposting?

>>4695268
This one, right?

>>4695997
yep

>>4696048
thanks

>>4695997
I wanted to like this book so much but the translation progressively becoming more and more unintelligible is so hard to read through. It's like watching grandpa go through Alzheimer's all over again.

>>4687467
Holy fuck, I never realized manga was printed in caps. After seeing this post and all the replies I went to check on manga I've been reading/read in the past, AND ITS ALWAYS BEEN ALL CAPS BUT I NEVER NOTICED!

>>4697242

>>4697242
Yeah lmao they just make it bigger or put it in bold for emphasis or yelling

Is there an eromanga centered version of Pic Related?

>>4697607
why don't retards know how to read threads?

>>4697607
its gonna read like a shitpost but "even a monkey can draw manga" has a chapter on eromanga which taught me enough to make one of these. eromanga are mainly comedy, the porn is just a novelty addition in the cultural context of when that genre was the most popular during the 80s.

We actually finished a page. Thoughts on this, folks?

>>4697607
You can always consider the fanservice route, as in seinen/josei + fanservice/sex, if you don't want lighthearted comedy like >>4697628 suggests.

>>4697098
Yet another signal to start studying written/spoken Japanese. I guess that's it, I'll have to cut on Internet time even more.

>>4697645
Looks cool, but it was hard to me to understand what is happening at the first glance. Monster's right hand in the top panel, for example. Can it be made more visible? Not with line width, but making rest of the body darker/lighter, or maybe make elbow stick out of torso outline?

>>4697645
Anon, if you're anything like me, don't ask for criticism until you've finished the whole comic. I finished 5 pages, posted it here, got good criticism, and felt like I couldn't continue working on the comic in good faith without going back to fix those mistakes. But those pages were so tediously drawn, taking 4-5 hours per page, that I just dreaded going back to fixing them. Now I moved onto drawing another story that I wrote and plan to go back to that earlier comic later, when my motivation is fresh again.

Sooo.... Just finish the comic first, then post the whole thing here. That's what I plan to do. Of course, this is just how I work, personally.

But! If you do want criticism on that page, its hard to give criticism because its really hard to see what's going on. Maybe that's because this page is taken out of context. But for the things I can confidently tell you, the first is that the little figure on the bottom middle of the first panel is not clear. I didn't see it until the 3rd time around. The emotions drawn in the second panel don't match the dialogue (the character doesn't looks surprised at all) Third, in the third panel with the giant being ripped apart, the explosion just doesn't look forceful enough. What you drew looks like billowing smoke with the giant being slowly torn apart, but the "sound effects" you wrote indicate an explosion. In the fourth panel, I think the pose and emotions could be conveyed a lot clearer. You should probably have the explosion blowing the hair out of the character's face, and the eyes should be a lot more widened. Their pose looks like they're running towards the giant, when you probably wanted to convey the character being surprised/shocked.

>>4697645
The paneling is a tad odd, but if you've managed your layers correctly, it might be an easy fix.

I'd suggest flipping the big demon horizontally so his fist is flying from the same direction as the star in the sky. Inverting the direction of hte 2nd panel might help with that too

>>4697645
Man that is way too many screentones in each panel. Tone it down. Less is more. God damn.

>>4697672
>>4697703
>>4697718
>>4697721
Thanx for the XTREMLEY useful pointers, guys. I'll show our group this site. We'll be back.

Thanx again!

>>4697727
lmao you prob don't want to tell anyone irl you browse 4chan. /ic/ is basically pure piracy at this point

>>4697721
LOL Too many screentones in a black and white comic? That's a good one.

>>4697727
DO NOT show people this site you fucking faggot
>MUH SIKRIT KLERB
it was until you faggot election tourists never left

>>4697727
>I'll show our group this site
don't do that you fucking faggot

>>4697727
>I'll show our group this site. We'll be back.
Please don't and fuck off.

>>4697759
You think that looks good? I'm not going to stop you man, have fun making your eye rape. Less competition for me.

>>4673591
amnesia trope usually makes your character become passive and passive character is never a good thing for writing. You need to give them a strong motive or makes them a asshole to make sure that your character become active and always be the one who push the story foward

>>4697759
He’s right tho. Crosshatching looks better, but takes longer.

>>4684331
Terrible example. Protagonist gaining back and losing his nemories again was pretty bad

>>4698643
You're probably right, the last time I watched it was in the 2000's so my memories are a bit foggy

>>4697759
What this guy >>4698081 said. While it's probably too difficult and time consuming to properly get your values with only hatching, you should consider mixing hatching + tones, or even pure blacks, to indicate the value rather than just layer upon layer of screentones. If everything has a screentone on it the page becomes very muddy and unpleasant to read.

page 8 bump: good morning! edition.

I have a question, has medibang contest theme has always been "anything you want"? Has there ever been a specific theme they want in the past?

>>4699434
Don't they have an archive of some kind? Information could be there.
I didn't even know about medibang existence till this threads started to show up.

>>4699443
Yeah I looked it up, it doesn't really say anything, not even the page count. But judging from the submissions, I think it is free for all. I just want verification.

>>4699097
I kinda get what you guys might be saying about the screen tones, but at the same time, I don't.

This is another page we're working on. How the hell do I emphasize the characters are dark skinned with midtone clothes and hair, on top of the fact that it's also night time?

Should I just color it all without screentones?

>>4699461
>characters are dark skinned with midtone clothes and hair, on top of the fact that it's also night time
Are you sure you need this much information packed in every panel? Esp. with regards to the clothes and hair?
As for night time, can't you put a panel that say that yep, it's a night, and then proceed without making everything dark?
Just throwing some ideas around.

>>4699466
So I should just suddenly drop those details that have already been established?

This isn't anywhere near close to our 1st page.

>>4699475
Maybe use screens on the BG in one panel per page and you definitely don't need them for FX and shit. Like on yur last page, you coulda just left the smoke. fire, and shit, straight white.

>>4699486
Basically, jus less color, man.

>>4699475
I would look up how professional manga depicts night scenes and try to apply that knowledge. "Suddenly" dropping anything doesn't sounds like a good idea to me.
Doesn't Gantz's fights happen mostry at night? I would took a look at that.

>>4699461
Just merge the values. This is one of many solutions.

(don't laugh at my drawing pls, i tried my best)

>>4699461
The answer is line weight my friend. All those areas that are hatched? Make 'em black-fills instead. Shadows contrast strongly when there's little light, such as at night. Those buildings in the background? make them pure black (perhaps using the windows as highlights) framed against a strong screentone for the night sky.

>>4699461
You can use them for characters, but that's where I would draw the line.

Would this be too much?

>>4699507

>>4699461
Here, even did an example for you. Something like this. Basically, somewhere dark/night = high contrast shadows and silhouettes.

>>4699535
Okay. But it's okay to use it on their skin and hair, right?

>>4699538
That would muddy the effect. At most I would hatch to IMPLY a dark shade of skin. You don't need to always shad everything exactly as your model sheet or whatever says, in fact to do so is completely wrong and results in a very stale read.
What I'm trying to say is there's other ways to convey darker tones than screentones.

I highly recommend you go read some manga and pay attention to when they forego details for the sake of contrast and readability.

>>4699543
I do read manga.
For example; Killer B, yoruichi, Canary, Darkshine and I could go on; but they're NEVER not Black. They're always screen toned.

Super Sayin Blue hair is always screen toned, so is Renji's and Light Yagami's.

This is what's confusing me about these suggestions. Some of them, anyway.

>>4699543
Maybe I'm just not understanding these other methods you speak of.......

>>4699585
>For example; Killer B, yoruichi, Canary, Darkshine and I could go on; but they're NEVER not Black. They're always screen toned.
And if you pay attention you will notice that they're always contrasting with something. They're never a screentone on top of a screentoned background. You need to understand the value of contrast in reading a manga.
>Super Sayin Blue hair is always screen toned
This is a really bad example because it looks like ass. Look at the original run of DB/DBZ for examples, not Super since it's a downgrade in every way.
>and Light Yagami's.
Light Yagami is a good example of what I'm talking about though. Pay attention to what Obata does with line weight my friend. He uses it exquisitely to create depth, and it's something you (or whoever is doing your line work) should study closely.

>>4699535
>>4699585
>>4699599
I darkened the background screentone and used a way lighter one for the skin and hair. Comparing it to your other page, the skin and hair stands out more thanks to the values used. In fact i probably should've made the skin even lighter. The only thing that saves the previous page is the white jacket thing.

>>4699599
Okay, I think I'm getting what you're saying. Disagree about DB, though. But that's neither here nor there.

>>4699625
this is the other page I was referring to.

>>4699625
>In fact i probably should've made the skin even lighter.
Alternatively, use a darker tone for the background. I went sort of lightish (for a night sky) to contrast more heavily with the buildings, but if you must have a tone on his torso then yeah you'll want a darker background.
THAT SAID, that doesn't look bad as is.

I'm going to try my damndest implementing all this, moving forward.

Thanks for the input, guys.

do you guys have any tips on world building
>what to avoid
>demographics
>powers etc.

>>4699814
>politics also

>>4699814
>>4699859
Go to /tg/ for that friendo. Just remember that having a detailed world is really only icing on the cake and will not carry your work.

>>4699950
> /traditional games/ how the hell am i going to find info on world building for anime in there

>>4699814
It depends on the story you want to tell.
You can go really deep into it and design geography, history, folklore, politics, finance, culture, military, fashion, architecture, ect. It’s useful to have it written down if you’re writing a series, but for a short story you don’t have to have everything figured out exactly. Just don’t fall into the trap where you do more world building than writing your story.

https://gramho.com/media/2186951723129094801
does this apply to manga

>>4700534
thnx for the reply i came up with these powers for my characters but the powers fit more in a manga like hunter x hunter i feel better and more inspired to write

>>4700334
World building is pretty universal, and there's regular threads where people share advice for worldbuilding TTRPG settings, a lot of the advice you can apply to any kind of writing.
It won't help you with stuff like making a power system, but there aren't really any resources that I know of that can help you with that.
I recommend just taking something you're interested in and turning that into a power system.

>>4700687
Yes, it can be applied to manga to a degree. Particularly with scenery, but this is a creative medium, you can apply it to whatever you want.