/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Is it worth it, in both effort and results? I did the first few lessons of draw a box and from there, I just use intuition and observation for drawing in perspective. I tried going through How to draw by Robertson but I got about 20 pages in before realizing that shit is FAR more boring than draws box ever was. Anyway, would you say it’s better to do a perspective course like that Than to just continue winging it, and would you say it’s necessary if one’s main goal is figure drawing? Also, I hope it’s more entertaining than Robertson, he might be a good teacher but I wanna Kms as soon as I try to open his book

>>4665954
Can you post some of your work after doing the course? Maybe a before and after? I think it would be pretty informative to the quality of the course.

>>4665994
pretty good*

>>4665994
That's not how art courses work man. Courses are more like a springboard for future art improvement.

>>4665954
>NMA Perspective with Erik Olson
Can you post the courses please
I want to study perspective and I don't know from where to start

>>4665981
Like you and I guess most people here, I tried Roberton's book and also draw a box. I always felt lost in both of them, the first because he seems to go in depth too quickly and seems to expect you to have an understanding already, the later because I thought he is was simplifing things too much. I also went over some other books and felt the content was too superficial, that is what made me do the (I had tried once too and quited) again and for good this time.

I thought it was totally worth it, because, as Olson's says, you need to understand the behinds of what is happening in the scene you are drawing in order to be able to make the perspective work for you. This is something he hammers ad infinitum during the course, the fact that you should not be a slave to the perscpective and all those measurements and station points, etc, but you need to understand it in order to apply and visualize it all and then, if you want, using guesstimations that are going to look correct instead of a mess.

After going throught it all I guess that is what guys like kjg do, they visualize the setups of perspective without actually drawing it.


>>4665994

That is something Olson also said many times during his 1 on 1 talk after a few lessons. He says to, after each lesson, practice what he taught doing your own drawings and versions of what was done. Unfortunately that is the recomendation of his I did not follow cause I wanted to go throught the whole course and have the full picture before applying it.

>>4665994
A course won't make your art better just for watching it and you can't judge a course for the art quality of the people who watched such course, what if op is a massive retard who only went through the videos but did Zero practice, does that make the course bad? use your brain for once

>>4665999
If you go through a course as large as Eriks you should at least show some improvement in that timeframe.
>>4666014
I am you retard, I doubt Op has a crippling learning disability.

Does Erik Olson teach intuitive perspective? Like freehand, unmeasured perspective? Does he only teach architectural, instrumental, industrial-design level perspective? How practical is the information, does he tell you how to apply what is taught?

I literally never had any problems with perspective

post your fucking wooorrrk opp. I wanna see the gains, if any.

>>4666138
As you command

>>4666141
thanks for actually posting. looks absolutely wonderful op.
do you have any work from before you started doing to course too?

>>4666123

Yes, what he teaches is very applied. He first goes throught the whole theory, explains how everything works in details, then draws a few scenes setting up everything and without setting up everything, using dimminishment guides to help freehand the lines.

>>4666138

I explained here. >>4666012

>>4666141
Not my artwork, im the op.

>>4665954
I have all the videos, If you let me know what are the videos that you ended up missing I can put them on a MEGA for you.

Being a completionist myself I'd have to see such an effort not being able to reach 100%.

>>4666166
post your before and after work ffs

>>4666252
Nice, thanks man. The video in question is: 6. Diagram 61_ Multiple Traditional Frames & A Film Frame Cheat Method (1)

>>4666164
Okay, I think you sold the course to me. Perspective is my weakest area and I suck at designing interiors and exteriors for my comics. One more question though, does he teach how to draw cars, vehicles, and other complex machinery? It seems like the lessons are organized by 1pt., 2pt., 3pt. perspective, which is geared more towards environments.

>>4666252
This would be amazing, thank you

>>4666280
https://mega.nz/file/6s4GhSRA#UMRA8eCeZMp0fOCVIcfb_7CBGWA3skCNwzef3ghuWls

Congrats OP. I only have 5% and taking notes. Just starting lesson 2.

>>4665999
>not applying lessons as you go
That's not how art courses work, that's not how any kind of learning works.

>>4665954
Where did u find the course i've been trying to find it for a long time. Well they said it was on cgpeers but can't even register there

Bump.

Started watching it earlier today after reading Perspective Made Easy, Robertson's How to Draw, and watching Gary Meyer's course.

It's a little long winded but he really hammers it home. Watching him apply the techniques and drawing along is really helpful. A couple of lessons in and I'm already a lot clearer on some of the core concepts.

>>4666252
Hey, would you mind uploading Perspective 16 – lesson 17? It's the only one I'm missing. The full title should be something like 17. A Digital Draw Over, Sectioning a Tilted Boat & Setting Up Perspective. Cheers

>>4666658
Keep going, man. A tip I can you to avoid endless erasing is to always forward the video to after he drew everything. Especially in the early lessons he does it all on the spot and since his page is bigger yours might not be able to accomodate everything like his.

>>4666638
gotcha, thanks man.

>>4666312
Yes, I think he have some kind of relation with Robertson (I heard once somewhere that Robertson studied with Olson) or something because at every chance he gets he draws a hotrod or a plane. In the early lessons it is mostly hammering theory until you have enough pieces to apply on a scene that start very, very simple. By the 3pt part he is drawing race cars, baloons, weird alien ships, jet cockpits etc, but also interiors with people in it, stairs, etc.

>>4666829
Yes, that is what I liked the most, he really repeats things to make sure you get it where he is comming from. I felt he was really worried about my understading instead of just showing once and moving on.

>>4666855
https://mega.nz/file/2hZhkAAB#bZufCvrYfmLDYQbaWYUQ2XeKVCPAtqecjkNj88rxMnc

Does Olsen say one way or the other whether you should do this digitally?Plan to adapt the course to Photoshop anyway, but still curious.

>>4667374
Well what he says about digital is that it gives you a huge advantage when setting up the whole thing because you dont need to worry about distant VPs, pencils not being sharp enough when doing very small things since you can zoom in and out.

I dont remember him especifically mentioning anything about the medium you should be doing, but during the course his comments make it seem like he is not very fond of digital drawings and also in the NMA page they listed the materials that are used...

>>4666829
>>4667346
Do you feel like the course has helped you bridge the distance in terms of plotted, technical perspective versus perspective applied to art?

>>4667509
No, but my anime tits have improved.

>>4667509
Many times during the course Olson says that the series is geared toward artistic perspective. In late videos he goes on about how perspective used to be about counting squares and perfect measurements because it was need for projecting planes, cars, etc. Today with 3d programs this kinda of perspective is not need anymore in so much detail. That being said he still shows how to do all that and reference specific measures if you wanted, but in the 3pt perspective series he says he does not use this kinda anymore, favoring the "5 steps methods" while explaining why it is better and faster and suits the artistic needs better.

>>4667575
Good stuff. Thanks, anon.

>>4666003
It's on cgpeers

>>4667575
Where in the course are the 5 step methods referenced?

>>4667721
>Part 20: 03. Simplified method for secondary SP’s and 45 Degree RP’s

I'm so excited to try this course. I just finished Marshall Vandruff's $12 perspective series and it was really helpful, so I can only imagine Olson's course will further expand my knowledge.

One thing that always bothers me with perspective is all courses seem to explain the mechanics of perspective, but not its application.
If I want to plan a scene, how the fuck am I supposed to know what amount perspective to use, where to put the viewer, etc? Some people told me to "eyeball it" and work on a grid from there, but if I knew how to eyeball perspective, I wouldn't be trying to learn it.

Is this stuff even addressed?

>>4667765
At the beggining of the course you will already be able to see naturally the applications even thought Olson mentions many times that at this point we are learning the ins and outs of what is going on behind the scenes and that you should not be worried about drawing crazy stuff. He repeats this many times. Later on when you get all the stuff he does crazy stuff like a dungeon scene, crazy stairs, vehicles etc. After he goes over the cone of vision and station point explanations he starts doing very simple scenes. By the halfway point of 2pt you will know enough theory to do exact that, measure from where exactly your viewer is seeing the scene and what his distance in relation to the other characthers, objects etc. The idea of all the scenes Olson does is exactly what you want, adress HOW you should go about setting it all up to look correctly, how to go the reverse way, starting with your composition and applying perspective and vice-versa.

congrats on wasting 150 hours of your life on impractical methods you won't use and will forget in months to come

- Roughly speaking, how much of the course is dedicated to objects, to backgrounds and to organic things?
- How tool-heavy is it?
- How much time, on average, did you spend daily watching and drawing?

Congratulations on accomplishing this, anon. Hopefully you've got a taste of what it's like to complete stuff and go for other essentials.

>>4667784
Thanks for answering all of our questions anon. Olson's course is a big investment and its really helpful to know beforehand if the investment is worth it.

>>4667754
I'm starting that one too, could somebody compare them?

>>4667811
>Hopefully you've got a taste of what it's like to complete stuff and go for other essentials.

Yes, I spent too much time hoarding stuff, it was about time to actually get something done.

>- Roughly speaking, how much of the course is dedicated to objects, to backgrounds and to organic things?

About the figure, during most of the course the figure is only talked about for referencing, like putting a guy here and the other all the way on top of some mountain and make them have the same height and stuff like that, at about halfway he does talks about how the figure works in perspective and draws some various poses. Then at the start of 3pt he dedicates a whole chapter (about 1 hour) about how to position and construct the figure in perspective. I thought this was the only weak part of the whole thing, to be honest.

>- How tool-heavy is it?

45-45-90 Transparent Triangle Ruler
30-60-90 Transparent Triangle Ruler
Alvin Pro-Matic Lead Holder – 2H Lead
Alvin Rotary Lead Pointer
T-Square Ruler
Protractor
Prismacolor Verithin Colored Pencil – Red/Blue
Paintbrush
Kneaded Eraser
Hard Eraser
Helix Technical Compass

This is what they list in the site as the materials need, but I did it all with a protractor, a 45-45-90 triangle, the colored pencils, the compass and the obvious grphite pencil and eraser. That being said by the end of it all I felt that having the 30-60-90 would have been much more useful than the 45-45-90 triangle as that will almost make the protractor useless, since those are basically all the angles you will ever need. The other thing that was a pain in the ass during all the series was to make actuall horizontal lines. Olson has one of those engineer tables so he is lines are always straight while after a few lessons I noticed my lines were a little wonky. I solved by glueing a ruler and piece of an old ruler toghter in a T shape and sliding along the border of the paper to serve as the guide.

Now I'm kind of torn between trying out Olson's and Marshall Vandruff's courses. Which one is better ?

>>4666017
>I doubt Op has a crippling learning disability.
Looks like you doubted wrong lol

>>4667811
>- How much time, on average, did you spend daily watching and drawing?

Like I said at the beggining I would do 1 or 2 lessons a day, take notes and try to really grasp what I have seen. Some days i didnt felt like drawing. Some lessons count as 1 but will actually have almost 2hours duration and span 8 videos. Usually I would be at it for 1 to 2 hours.

>>4667817
Hey, man, no problem. I felt that it definitely made me understand things that were very badly explained in videos, books, the average youtuber etc during all these years. At one point Olson goes on a rambling, and it seems truth indeed, about how in the old days students were taught everything by people that had experience in the subject and would spill all the beans to them. Then those same students would go on in the market, apply all that experience and kwownledge adn when it was time for them to teach they would only give half assed explanations and expect their students the same sucess that they had, he even jokes about the artists syndicate was on it and purposely holding knowlege from the ''average'' people in order to retain their status of holders of all perspective secrets.

>>4667826
I can't compare the benefits/efficacies of them, but from the first couple lessons Olson is already far more in-depth and thorough than Vandruff's series.

>>4667842
I went with Vandruff's course first. It took me about 2 weeks, watching a lesson a day and spending an hour after each lesson practicing the concepts. I got lost in his explanation of the ellipse, but it was still helpful in the end. It was really cool to see him break down perspective and how to apply them in certain scenarios. There are no assignments, however. By the end of the course, I developed a foundational - if a tiny bit shaky - understanding of perspective. $12 for 12 40-minute videos is fantastic.

Moving onto Olson's course from Vandruff's and I believe it's paying off so far.

>>4667765
This is the realm of composition and cinematography. Find books/videos on composition and then study films for cinematography.
If you use film you learn the context of when to use certain camera angles and wide vs narrow lens with regards to how it affects the viewer or what it implies about the scene.
The films you will get recommended the most for this are probably german expressionism films and noir films, both black and white and old as hell but fantastic for clear and effective composition and cinematography.

Composition:
>videos
-Robert Watts Composition and Staging videos from Watts Atelier is great.
-Bill Perkins has multiple composition video courses on NMA. Heres a free one on youtube: youtube.com/watch?v=1uqzQrfJutg
- Pictorial Composition with Nathan Fowkes on Schoolism, haven't watch this myself but his color and light course is fantastic so I assume the same can be said for this.
>books
- Picture This: How Pictures Work by Molly Bang, its very flat/graphical based and womansplains in an astrology kind of way but its worth reading
- Creative Illustration by Loomis. haha just kidding no one reads Loomis on /ic/.
- Composition of Outdoor Painting Hardcover by Edgar Payne, tons of thumbnail examples of classic motifs and abstractions to base compositions on. A lot of composition teaching is based on this book, though obviously Payne was just compiling old knowledge.

Cinematogrophy:
- Every Frame a Painting https://www.youtube.com/user/everyframeapainting , great videos on how cinematography and editing affects the audience
- Feng Zhu Design Cinema https://www.youtube.com/user/FZDSCHOOL , There are tons of a great videos on his youtube for how to practically use perspective for finished concept art. His videos on lens types and extracting perspective from a photo are very good.

>>4667834
>>4668131
Based, I have noted everything down. Bless thy hearts.

>>4665954
What are exercises or studies that you did to solidify your understanding of the concepts he talked about? How do you know when you've "mastered" a concept? Perspective is a very technical topic so I find that it's easy to understand it once you've learned about it but not so easy when you have to actually apply it.

>>4667372
Thanks, I appreciate it. It was driving me crazy

>>4667374
I studied digitally and I felt like it was an advantage because of how accurate I could be and the large canvas size, I don't feel like I'd have enough room or control to do things traditionally.

>>4667784
>By the halfway point of 2pt you will know enough theory to do exact that, measure from where exactly your viewer is seeing the scene and what his distance in relation to the other characthers, objects etc.
Could you point me where this is? I watched the whole course and forgot this information

Would you recommend this course to a brainlet like me

I have very limited HDD space. How much do you go back and cross-reference videos after a lesson is done?

>>4669174
You will do it a lot. You dont absorb everything in one go.

>>4666658
Nice, how would you recommend taking notes + studying Olson’s course? Been meaning to dig into that after I’m finished with Vandruff’s videos.

I never see Gary Meyer's GNOMON perspective course mentioned on here. It's really thorough too, and a good supplement to Olson's course if you ask me. It's on cgp.

>>4668131
If you have Composition of Outdoor Painting Hardcover by Edgar Payne in digital format please share it. I've been looking for it all over and for such and old book it has being a pain do find that bastard.

I really want that book though.
>The anon who posted the missing videos on mega.

>>4669378

I'm not that anon but I have the pdf from here. I hope this link works: https://mega.nz/file/rmJTDQ7D#CCwlIiQDviXw2weoyYYSfqvPW9-RWVv9G7pYiedGrTw

>>4669111
Around chapter 11.

>>4669135
Yes, the way Olson goes about explaining things makes it almost impossible not to get it, and like he says many times, you can always rewind and watch again. I had to do that a few times.

>>4669174
>>4669184
>>4667810

I will answer all together cause they deal with the same stuff. Olson says many, many times, to the point of you thinking ''Ok, i get it, enough of it'' that the objective of the series is for YOU to take your own notes and create your own record of everything that he said and did. Yes you will forget some things after a while because the scope of the series is very large and it is impossible to practice everything at all times, even Olson acknowledges this fact and says that it is normal and you should not worry about because you took the time to make your own notes and record everything in your own words and now you can just get your notes and go ''aha, you do this first, then this, ok I get it, I remebered'' and move on. Simple as that.

As for not taking I tried to label everything when I felt that if I ever needed to comeback for reference I would be confused, so I made sure to number the steps I did and comments along it. Sometimes I would write word by word of what he said because he would stop drawing and just explain it all for a while. Sometimes especially in the later lessons he would write himself the steps that were done along with important things to remember.

Bump

>>4669423
Not him, but thanks for the link, I went ahead and made this way smaller.

Edgar Payne.rar
https://www89.zippyshare.com/v/GyDFn34x/file.html

Edgar Payne.pdf
https://www89.zippyshare.com/v/2VEWJzlg/file.html

>>4671505

Original pdf loster here, that's great, thanks man. It was a bitch to get my hands on this so having it in a more legible format is very nice.

>>4671530
No problem, I really appreciate that you shared it at all. I should warn you though, it's a bit sloppy in some spots since I wanted to get it done quickly. Half of each page is more or less lopsided, and you can see some dust marks every now and again. I feel kind of bad now for not doing it better, haha. I might visit it again later on to separate each page and have them straight. Sorry, but thanks again

>>4671540
No problem, I really appreciate that you shared it at all. I should warn you guys though, it's a bit sloppy in some spots since I wanted to get it done quickly. Half of each page is more or less lopsided, and you can see some dust marks every now and again. I feel kind of bad now for not doing it better, sorry. I might visit it again later on to separate each page and have them straight. Thanks again

I swear I'll just keep messing this post up if I try again >>4671545 in reply to >>4671530

I draw almost exclusively digitally.

Of course everything is theoretically easier to do in digital, but would you say it is a comfortable transition to go from all these rulers and compasses to digital tools? Or will most of that go into the trash and just the conceptual knowledge applies?

>>4671639
Clarifying my question:
I know that in digital I have perfect straight lines, infinite eraser, etc.

But it's not normal to measure angles, for instance, like you'd do with a protractor/triangular ruler. I can probably use some specific plugins like Lazy Nezumi to have more fine-tuning, or even get an image of a protractor on Google Images so I can do it on other software without advanced options, but... will that be needed? Are the ruler-measuring methods an essential part of the process?

I hope OP is a digital artist.

>>4667374
If you're learning pure(tm) perspective purely on a theoretical level, you might as well just use Geogebra rather than drafting lines manually with a ruler. I saw some anon here use it so I tried it and it works great. It's very useful for quickly testing out theories without getting slowed down from trying to do precise lines.
But of course if you want to learn how to actually draw, you should freehand them.

>>4671707
Yooooo not him but this stuff is just like SAI's perspective ruler, meaning if I learn what I'm doing I can use it.

>>4671707
You can freehand in PS, and the line tool makes straight edges redundant. You can even make a protractor with https://www.ginifab.com/feeds/angle_measurement/

I can't think of anything you could do traditionally that can't be reproduced digitally, and if working digitally is you goal, it makes sense to adapt the techniques to you're medium

>>4671732
*Your

>>4671639
>>4671653
>I hope OP is a digital artist.
I am not. But I will asnwer based on what Olson said/did. For the angles you will only need for setups 30/60/90. If you are doing slopes and 3pt you will be able to choose any angle you want looking up or down, so if you want to measure it accurate you will need some kind of protractor. What Olson did was actually put the triangle on the screen, according to him, haha.

Like I said here >>4669448 if you can actually draw along, create your own record of it and be able to quick reference it when you need, I guess doenst matter if do it digitally or trad.

>>4669423
>>4671505
>>4671530
>>4671545

The anon that requested it: THANKS!!!
I'll put it everywhere so other people don't have such a hard time trying to get it as I did.

PS: I tried to use briss 0.9 on it to separate the pages but it says the images are too big. Does anyone else knows another alternative?

Bump

Waiting for the magnet link like water ...

>>4666141
That's by Matthias Lechner, concept artist for Zootopia

>>4672678
lmao, I see it now. wtf op. We trusted you

is this true?

>>4674742

>>4673196
see>>4666166

>>4674742
handprint is unironically autistic and not applicable to art

>>4674749
Those ellipses look horrible?

>>4673196
Yeah well atleast I learned the name of a good artist, comfy enviroments

>>4674852
sorry op. I can't read

>>4674953
yes it is, but only after you ease get the essential aspects of perspective and omit those overly technified procedures, after then you realize perspective is all about plotting points/coordinates in space into a plane and no more. So the way of doing it are several but the best is around those explained through descriptive geometry, where you use orthographic projections to determine the distance and the lines which will converge in space.

>>4675032
Not a question.

>>4675810
Why? I can't see it.

>>4665954
Op pyw after tutorials

>>4665954
ok can you freehand a spiral staircase i want to see the results

>>4676288
I don't think anyone can do that accurately
Maybe some mega sperg

>>4676305
i can its not hard

>>4665954
Can't let it die

OP here, this is Olson's actually website. His works are there.

erikolsonpaintings com/illustrations

>>4676317
post it

>>4681576
This thread will now be Archived, are you surprised?