/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>4601306
Pyw

This method will only work once you've already copied 999999999999999 poses and knows how to "see" the form suggested by that simplified skeleton, so your point is nil.

>>4601306
Literally a "draw the rest of the owl" tutorial

>>4601306
>taking anime advice from westerners
NGMI

>>4601322
This, begs will an hero trying to go from step 4 to 5

>>4601306
waiting for a beg to try this and post their result...

>>4601306
why do the joints change shape? what sense does this make in a step by step progress? draw a circle then erase it and draw a more elongated circle? why

>>4601368
NGMI

>>4601368

You think about boxes but you draw human forms. The forms corespond to the boxes but don't literally get drawn on top of them.

>>4601306
howd I do

>>4601306
Look at those FEEEET
AHAAHHAHAHAAHA
>inb4 imagine the smell

>>4601429
wtf is wrong with her right foot?

>>4601306
5 to 6 is draw the rest of the owl

>>4601306
Look like she’s going to fall

>>4601455
op didnt tell me how to do the feet. what was i to do?

Seems the kind of thread I was looking for

I understand gesture and all, can draw the human body in simple form.
but every time I go with a more realistic human It never look right

>>4601306
"those who can't do, teach" might be the most inaccurate statement I've heard. Most people who are good at their craft are shit at teaching, especially if they've been doing it since childhood. If it's ingrained in their mind that they can do it naturally, then it is much more difficult for them to simplify it down, because when they're doing it, why would they need to simplify it down themselves?

>>4601429

>>4601662
Teaching is a skill. And like every skill, it can be learned.

They need to simplify it maybe because they're teaching someone else THAT'S NOT THEMSELVES

>>4601662
It doesn't mean people that suck are good at teaching, it just means that no one would become a teacher if they can be successful at their job.
The only people that are good and turn teacher are the ones that get offered a lot of money.

>>4601306
If you ever watched timelapses of natural great artists, you'd see that they all start out by drawing the face first and then the rest, not the torso. The reason being is that, I think, there's not much expression you can convey with a simple block. The expression of the face opens door to creativity. The brain (central processing unit) is in the head, so it just makes sense that the posture, position of the limbs or whatever you want to call it, follows the expression of the face, which in turn is a reflection of the working neurons in the brain.

>>4601727
what is natural great artists, aren't all people natural as of 2020 still?

>>4601306
this is a prime example of a retard artist that blindly stumbled on some fundis without actually knowing them and decided to make a tutorial for god knows what reason

>>4601756
his posts gets tons of likes, so many kids on reddit these last 5 years, not even worth critiquing his tuts there because you'll get buried

>>4601727
There are no natural great artists. They have to learn their fundies too because all they can do is copy a picture.

>>4601727
Got a link to some of those timelapses?

>>4601775
best speedpainting channel if u know japanese or not

https://youtu.be/z7IK06BkeXI?t=18970

>>4601779
Both clearly start with a gesture drawing anon, not a face.

>>4601811
im not that anon

>>4601727
It's best for everyone if you were to stop posting

>>4601816
Fair enough, just imagine I was talking to him then.

>>4601306
> starting at the torso makes everything easier
> draw the line of action first
> draw the perspective first
> draw the boundaries first

> Vilppu: so I start all my gestures with the head...

>>4601727
everyone should start to the head because is the first thing people normaly look at

>>4601859
yeh, tell that to environment artists

>>4601306
>Flat
>Stiff
>Out of balance, falling over

Yikes. Although that little plane at the first step may be useful to easily figure out the perspective of the body.

>>4601859
An artist should start drawing a figure with the part that makes him or her imagine the rest of the limbs with ease. For a lot of people it's the torso.

>>4601322
this kills the /beg/

>>4601869
is been implied we are talking about Figure drawing aren't we?
if you fail at drawing the figure face, no matter how hard you draw the background or the body, the face is the only thing that matter

>>4601887
>face is the only thing that matter

>>4601859
>>4601887
No. You draw the figure first. The face will likely have the most detail added to it, but you need to get the general posture down first.

>>4601875
>Yikes. Although that little plane at the first step may be useful to easily figure out the perspective of the body.
Nah, just sketch a little 3D box, way better than a plane.

>>4601909
and the eyes searched for the head of the figure first

>>4601887
faces

>>4601859
>>4601727

Just because people start at the head first doesn't mean anything. It just means that's what they prefer or have learned to do. I, personally, can not just draw a head first anymore as I have learned to start with the hips/body first and then figure the rest out afterwards.

>>4601887
face lives matter

>>4601949
free the face

>>4601957
bust up!

>>4601961
cant stop searching for her face
im done

>>4601973
Imagine the farts.

>>4601973
Brrrrraaaapppppeeerrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaappppphhhhhhhpuuuuuuuu Poof

>>4601306
Nice OP wow art is so easy nice bait thread nearing 50 replies.

>>4601982
Make it 51

>>4601727
Burne Hogarth started with the torso and drew the head last. I've found his method the best, personally. Every other body part sits in relation to the torso. The head gives little information.

>>4602005
but is he a natural artist? probably not, that's why

>>4601909
>>4601940
>>4601949
>>4601957
>>4601961
>>4601973
>this much effort to disprove out-of-contest quote
you absolutely hate drawing faces, aren't you

>>4601366
self aware /beg/ here, did it for fun

>>4602011
no, i hate drawing hands and feet

>>4602007
You could start anywhere. Starting at the head makes the body stiffer in my experience.

>>4601322

the finished figure still looks as flat a those simplified shapes, desu.

>>4601306
It's a flat shape and creates a flat form. Why would you want that?

>>4602015
Good try, all things considered

>>4602005
>The head gives little information.
I just made an entire post explaining how it gives the most information. What is even the point of drawing a figure if the mind behind it is absent? You're drawing people, I assume, not mannequins. They have feelings, dreams, hopes, aspirations that they use their body and mind to achieve. Your limbs wouldn't even move without signals from your brain. Even tadpoles have a head and just a tail for the body, because head comes first in the creation of life. If your purpose is to create lifeless dolls and bold muscular men because "anatomy is everything", then sure, starting with the torso makes more sense. But if you want to have at least an ounce of creativity and character, you'll want to start with an expression first and work your way out, as nature intended.

>>4601775
I don't have time to cherry pick, but here are just a couple
https://youtu.be/9fg-Q_Gn7uQ
https://youtu.be/zbo0mDcF8MM

>>4601662
I still have trouble explaining basic concepts in my field to laymen. It's just so hard to say it in a way that makes sense so they just scratch their heads or worse, wildly misinterpret my meaning.

>>4602036
Don't put so much importance on the gesture. Unless you work in animation, it's secondary to the concept or message you're trying to convey or even presentation.

>>4602209
>Don't put so much importance on the gesture.
damn are you trying to make him /beg/ forever? brutal

>>4602209
Gesture is the most important part of a drawing

>>4602242
I agree to disagree. We all have different priorities. Since you offered no rationale, I have no reason to argue.

>>4602209
>Trying to convey a message without understanding gesture drawing
I bet you introduce yourself as an artist, too.

>>4602253
The entire basis of an artistic work is the underlying flow of the whole. Without that you're not even making art. You're just drawing clumsy studies.

>>4602253
Gesture gives a drawing life, there is a reason why art station art looks so soulless, it has no sense of movement it just looks like a 3D render instead of a person

>>4602262
Gesture for the sake of gesture is just as meaningless.

>>4602265
The vast majority of art station is a professional, conceptual work that accomplishes exactly what it was intended to do. Not every still image needs to convey a sense of movement. We have animation for that.

>>4602273
>Not every still image needs to convey a sense of movement
I don't think you even understand what gesture means at this point, which makes me worried that you're trying to talk about this subject with a pretense of knowledge.

>>4602265
you still can grab an art job without gesture

>>4602281
I was replying to anon >>4602265
>it has no sense of movement it just looks like a 3D render instead of a person

Either way, I never said gesture is not important, but it should not be put on a pedestal above all else, especially concept.

But it's not in the book of loomis

>>4602191
That's really bad technique, don't work like that.

It's not about which is more important. In art you work from big to small, not the other way round.
You start with composition, then figure, and then you slowly go more and more detailed in your rendering until it's done. If you're drawing a human, the face will generally be the most detailed part, but that absolutely doesn't mean you start with the face, that's just a bad idea.

>>4602209
Jesus christ anon wth???

>>4601306
I went to this guy's reddit, and jesus fuck he has never touched a single anatomy book in his life. He only seems to rely on online image tutorials and small tricks. I guess he doesnt need it cause this is good and cute enough for many people to coom on.

>>4602394
see
>>4602313

>>4602411
see
>>4602406

>>4602406
see
>>4602191

>>4602434
I did, they have bad technique. Likely autodidact.

>>4602445
pyw

>>4602284
>>4602273
I dont care if you get a job, it's still soulless and an insult to art

>>4601842
also Vilppu
>no rules, only tules

>>4602585
i like portraits, they stiff but dont care, soul

>>4602573
You first.

>>4602653
lol that microdick

>>4601306
>taking an advice from a reddit template man
No. But his rimworld comics are good.

>>4602686
grower

>>4602686
It's pointing to the camera, perspective and shit

Just study Gottfried Bammes and Loomis

>>4602762
the human mannequin reminds me the of worst anime girl painting

>>4601306
>Grafo
OH NO NO NO

>>4601727
it doesn't matter, anyone who isn't a brainlet NPC already has an idea of what he is going to draw in his mind
so you can start anywhere if you're good. look at people who are good streaming their drawing and how they move freely on the x-y-z planes sometimes starting with anything like feet or hands especially when foreshortening

>>4601842
Vilppu
>I always start with the head
Also Vilppu
>For this drawing I'm gonna start with the torso, because it's important to capture this movement...

>>4601325
Loomis also feels like a "draw the rest of the owl" tutorial to be fair

>>4602847
Which one

>>4601973

>>4601322
This is true of every construction method.
In fact the more complex you make your construction method the less you actually learn, that's why Buscema, Reilly and Villpu went with rhythms and only recommend boxes for people who really can't visualize shit and shouldn't be wasting their time trying to draw anyway.

>>4601690
In art the only jobs that pay more than university teacher are art director and the 1% of superstar mangaka/comic artists, illustrators and character designers.

>>4602181
Modern science says a measurable and probably major spectrum of our emotional responses originate from the neural net in our gastrointestinal tract.

>>4602764
>step one: draw five lines
>step two: reach into your dictionary of anatomical information and draw the rest of the entire person while largely ignoring those lines you drew earlier

>>4603292
This. I had lots of issues with art for a while before I ditched the overly complex construction shit. I can visualize things easily in my head, so doing more of stuff like gesture drawings helps me more. Constuction for me is more of just laying out where stuff goes, not perfectly measuring shit out just to draw a cartoon.

>>4603310
If you actually see this in the way you described, you are really NGMI.

>>4603320
I know what the construction means and how to use it. Someone who is just learning to draw will not. How is a /beg/ going to get that the flesh of the hips continues down at an angle past the pelvis like that?

>>4601306

>>4603345
No, you don't.

>>4603087
fun with a pencil

>>4603366
suck my cock

>>4603388
You literally don't know how to use construction or you wouldn't be bending over backwards on this simplification not working. It literally fucking does and it's actually easier for a /beg/ to get.

You stupid retards have been in /int/ hell so long you don't even remember what it was to be truly new at art. This shit gives mediocre but immediate results and that's by far the most valuable instruction you can give a noob, it gives them hope and keeps them drawing instead of wasting their time whining on /ic/ because they skipped the kiddy pool and fucking drowned.

>>4603395
That construction is shit. Someone who can't even draw a box is not going to know how to fucking draw like that.

>>4603403
Someone who can't draw a box is not drawing anything at all you fucking retard.

>>4601306
I am training to draw freehand, minimal boxes and shapes to draft it out. In order to do this, you need to put in the work to see forms in your head. Using your image's method, you will never improve to the next level.

>>4601322
NOOO

>>4601811
By drawing the head dummy

>>4601727
Actually not always true unless you're drawing a portrait or waist-up shot. I find that if I draw the head first then I can have issues extrapolating the torso and limbs from it, especially if it's a foreshortened shot of the torso with the head partially obscuring. If I do the head first then I'll tend to fall into a rut because I'm not thinking of the overall pose and gesture, weight and balance.

>The expression of the face opens door to creativity. The brain (central processing unit) is in the head, so it just makes sense that the posture, position of the limbs or whatever you want to call it, follows the expression of the face, which in turn is a reflection of the working neurons in the brain.

That sounds like a bunch of happy horseshit, desu. A figure is essentially just a collection of masses, even the face. Mastery of expressing forms in space and knowledge of how they work is what dictates the expression and feeling.
I would like to point out that the torso is where all of the limbs and the head are attached, the central hub of the body if you will. Whatever part you start drawing first will dictate what everything else is doing, so generally it makes sense to draw the main mass that everything is mechanically connected to, though it also depends on what is the focal point of a pose in each situation. If you drew someone hanging from a bar, for example, it would probably make the most sense to start from the arms, then the torso, as the arms being the point of action will dictate what the torso is doing, and so on down the line. Same principle applies to drawing a figure standing in a preexisting environment.
I think in general principle it's just a good idea to switch things up to avoid getting into a rut or doing things by habit instead of actively thinking about what you're doing.

Also, I'd like to see who you think of as being "natural great artists," because if you are who I think you are I'm going to get a kick out of this.

>>4602181
Okay then, to test your theory I did a drawing where I started with the rest of the body and then drew the head and face after. You all be the judge of how that went.
Probably shouldn't have tried to do a difficult foreshortened pose like this without references though, it's kinda fucked.

>>4604010
With an angle and pose like that I would have just started at the head. I usually put it last with other views & poses though.

you cant draw if u dont start with head, because i said so and that's how it's supposed to be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygsjP4UXbS4

>>4601322
/thread

Beginners can't really understand this tho.

>>4601306
I don't even have interest in learning to draw properly, i just have a pair of ideas that came to my mind in the form of images with a notable emotional impact and i need to draw them. But to draw them i need to have at least some basic notions in drawing anatomy, even if doesn't have to be a strictly realist painting.
I've started practicing drawing those "underdrawings" today, that method might be good for drawing hentai, but not for what i'm looking for. It's hard, at least it is for me.

>>4604521
What the hell are you on about?

.... fuck

>>4604649
Yeah too bad OP image is useless, huh?

>>4601306
WHOA THAT'S SO EASY. I knew loomis was just a meme.

>>4605187
RIGHT!? i went 0 to coomer artist in just 1 day!

why even bother with this bullshit, soon ai will learn to draw better than majority of us

>>4601306
But it looks flat

>>4601322
true but even then why would you fuck yourself over by using flat rectangles to represent volumes

>>4601325
retarded /beg/

>>4601368
because they did a retarded method of construction because they're female

>>4601727
it's because the angle of the head dictates the flow of the body in general. vilppu and huston both point this out

>>4602005
you can tell and it shows

>>4602209
pic related

>>4602265
art station stuff is concept art, it doesn't need good gesture

>>4602313
it's literally a shitty version of the construction method loomis introduces halfway through fun with a pencil.

>>4602406
it's not a bad idea at all. pic related

>>4602653
true but some tools are garbage like the one in the op

>>4603292
this is mostly bullshit, but it's true the more complex your construction method is, the more limited it is and the less places you will be able to apply it
>boxes are bad
simply retarded my nigger

>>4603297
a lot of freelancers in concept art etc. can pull in very nice salaries when they hit the mature phase of their career (~10+ years)

>>4603345
anatomy is separate from construction.

>>4604010
we can obviously imagine (dynamic) angles where you would start with another part of the body as opposed to the head, but 99% of images you look at the head is the focal point or very important to the construction in a way /begs/ and "/ints/" in here don't understand. back to vilppu

>>4605442
That's because it is.

>>4605455
py knowledge

>>4605455
Not surprised a frogposter's post is just 3/4 shit

>>4605455
pwy lil bich

>>4605489
>>4605490
Roasties BTFO

>>4605455
i smell beg suffering from dunning kruger effect

>>4605500
yeah, listening to what vilppu, huston and loomis say is so /beg/. unlike the op which is super advanced. you have to be at an incredibly advanced stage to represent volumes with the flattest shape possible. an incredibly advanced stage of retardation

>>4605486
>>4605489
>>4605490
foid cope

>>4605511
also, for the record, i would NEVER take artistic advice from a female. they have no idea what they're talking about.

>>4605500
That's you, my friend. Go wash it off with some fundies studies, yeah? Nobody wants to smell your stinky ass around here.

Children, children. Stop it or I'll bring the belt.

>>4605511
>yeah, listening to what vilppu, huston and loomis say
u just confirmed the effect bruh

>>4605516
i've been a bad boy. you need to whip me daddy

>>4605516
Cane my hands daddy

>>4605522
>reading posts
you just confirmed the nigger effect bruh. faggot kool aid slurping nigger. !Nigger!

>>4605524
>>4605528
based

>>4605529
seething white ass

>this thread
Jeez, was /ic/ always this bad?
I have been away for some time but I don't remember it being this bad.

>>4605724
brap

>>4601429
now i wanna give it a go

>>4603361
ifunny.co

>>4601306
Well, I tried.

>>4606192
That right arm pose looks painful.

>>4606217
It is. I based the pose off a random pose I made in the mirror.

>>4605724
thanks, i strive to drive down standards from within wherever i go. happy to disappoint.

>>4601306
Where are the hands and feet tutorials!

>>4608639

>>4608639
>>4608721

>>4601306
had a go

And another one for feet

>>4601727
I saw ne of my favorite artists (Fujishima, the Ah my goddess author) draw live at a signing event. He did a portrait of one of his characters and started by drawing the hair. Starting by the tips.

>>4603361
I like her hairstyle

When people try lo learn how to draw a given object, all they can do is draw the given object in the exact same position. What people need to learn first is perspective, and construction of forms through shapes. Drawabox or Vilppu should be studied BEFORE getting into those retarded tutorials.
>inb4 post your work
Post your mom, fag

>>4608733
Those feet looks horribly swollen.

>>4608797
It's actually shape and then form but that's also just for copying a ref or drawing what you see in front of you.

If you're trying to draw shit from imagination you really need construction and tutorials for drawing with shape aren't going to do too much for you.

How'd I do?

>>4609236
Flat as fuck and what's with the giant ribcage? Did u ever even try to learn proportions

>>4609199
Post your feet

>>4609249

>>4601875
>>Flat
>>Stiff
>>Out of balance, falling over
Unironically, post your work.

>>4601366
on this episode of "/beg/ tries it" ...

>>4601366
Bottom tier /beg/ hier, idk what I expected. I'll just stick to boxes.

>>4609806
Good job on the dicks at the bottom anon

>>4609817
Thanks.

Fuck man I came into this thread wanting a nice quick bash over the redditor "artist" in the OP pic but what the fuck is all of this

>>4609806
Sup nigga, heard you like, dick. Nigga.

>>4603361
Unironically helped me more than any fucking book I've ever read save for perspective made easy

>>4608639
Cute!

>>4609236
Has potential, but yeah, the ribcage is too big.

>>4609936
OP here, I was being sarcastic but everyone took it at face value.

>>4610030
I'll redraw it some other time, I started seeing problems as soon as I posted it.

>>4609806
am I /int/ if I'm better than this?

cool subreddit

>>4610755
draw the hand you weenie

>>4610778
i dont think i will

>>4601306
It's hard if you want to be good at it.

>this fucking thread

>>4601313
/ic/‘s ultimate “BTFO”

>>4601325
I hope the average anon who browses /ic/ isn’t this retarded.

>>4609257
that's a baby
mods ban this underage fag

>>4610184
You’re mid beg-tier at best anon

>>4601306
>this kind of content gets 10+k updoots on reddit
Why even bother

>>4602767
>fucks up the hips and legs to force a thigh gap
why do nips do this?

>>4609595
soul

how the fuck did this bait get 200 replies

The drawings made by following this guide turned out better than 90% of /beg/, so I’d say it works. This should happen more often, anons posting guides and people drawing based off of them.

>>4612092
now make those anons change the pose

>>4612092
/beg/ is literally symbol drawing with no construction whatsoever so not surprising

>>4611082
Baby feet, its awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwright

>>4612092
replace /beg/ with /ic/
*dab*

>>4606192
cute but she is about to fall at any moment

>>4609936
God I hate this

>>4615754
i mean drawings are nice enough imo

>>4614448
/ic/ can't draw.

How did I do bros?

>>4602406
Wrong. You do a sketch of what you want to do, then after that you're free to go. You can start with the face, hair, hands, the holy grail, background. Anything.

>>4606192
blog

>>4615754
>loves: almost anything animated by Studio Trigger
>hates: almost anything written by Studio Trigger

He better be making her this unlikeable on purpose.

>>4617070
What's that filename about?

>>4602762
Total beginner here. This is much more helpful

>>4617082
Picked it up on FunnyJunk. Any file you download from there will have part of the post or comment's text in the filename for whatever reason.

>>4615754
God, his writing style is so incredibly obnoxious, why are redditors so god damn unbearable?
Why can't they just be speak normally and stop trying to be quirky faggots?

>>4617372
Expecting reddit to not type like that is like expecting 4chan not throw nigger/faggot/tranny and whatever edgy buzzword in their posts

>>4615754
>should I include bikini shots?
>nah keep it classy
BWAHAHAHA im fucking dying

>>4617070
sounds pretty based to me ngl

>>4617378
4chan shitters may always sprinkle those buzzwords, but the way they write is way more natural. redditors always write like they are about to conduct a speech, it's fucking weird.

>>4617093
Please don't tell me you are actually using any of the shit in this thread. Please. Go study Loomis or Morpho.

>>4617861
They carefully groom whatever they say before saying it because it's permanently tied to their rep and e-peen and often their real identity, like faceberg or google plus or whatever else normalfags are using these days. Every time they say something they're fishing for community validation.

It's absolutely disgusting.

>>4617378
people who overly sprinkle their posts with nigger/faggot/tranny are usually post-fappening tourists who are desperately trying to fit in by imitating posting styles they've seen in screencaps

>>4615754
This would be cute if it wasn't for the reddit stuff which makes me impulsively retch in disgust.

>>4615754
looks good, better than 99% of ic

>>4618126
>faggot
Wrong, faggot is and always has been a staple, redditors don't use it and neither do newfags, they prefer stuff like degenerate.
People who draw are called draw fags, people who write are write fags, people who do "x" are x fags, it's common and not how other people use it on other sites.

>>4617866
Anon I'm trying out literally everything

>>4618078
agreed #agreement

>>4601429
>>4601673
i addressed some of the problem areas. I didn't even think about some of these until you pointed them out I hope they help anon

>>4601455
they're red and swollen and needed ice packs

>>4618247
ahhh forgot to post >w<

>>4618250
Based

>>4618250
could i get some feedback on one of my own pieces btw ÒzÓ I was trying to apply some things from morpho's work
>>4617866
if you could give me some tips. I'm kind of trying some narrative fanfic idea for daisy from super mario world

>>4601306
what exactly is that chest blob's shape??

>>4617045
Sorry, don't have one but thanks.

>>4618160
>fags is OUR word, only WE can say fags

>>4601306
Daily reminder structural skeletons are like your style, you develop the
with time, you can take inspiration from other but dont call bullshit on them if they dont work for you