/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>4572155
Crab on them saying 3d art isn’t real art

They picked the worst model to be chad

bend over and take it like a good little cumslut

>>4572155
2d artists take only a couple of hours to design a complex character from scratch
3d artists however take several weeks.

>>4572172
>>4572156
>>4572173
>>4572177
I was thinking about burning their board and leaving no survivors.

>>4572155
Is the skillset different enough that you can't do both?

>>4572155
NOOO NOOOO DELET THIS

>>4572197
You can do both and they help each other but 3d is extremely easier. Anyone can get hirable skills in 3D in a year. 2D more like 3-5 years and depends on the person.

>>4572197
Make a dope 2d concept characters
3D them in 3D
Take a month to learn code and make game from 3D
Sell game and if it's popular make a book out of 2d concept work and sell that too

>>4572206
>take a month to learn code

how do you plan to do that?

I'm legit curious as a CS student, because I'm going through this somewhat intermediate JS book for the summer break and I don't see myself finishing it within a month.

If you are using mainstream framework like Unity or Unreal, C# and C++ are significantly more complicated and nuanced than JS, and on top of the language, you have to learn the framework as well. I guess you can do a visual novel with Ren'py because Python is relatively easier to pick up, and visual novel logic, in its most simple form is just flow control but I wouldn't bet my money on people self-learning that in a month without prior programming knowledge. You could try RPG maker which I imagine is more application level in its design, and it uses Ruby which is similar to Python but again, it's shaky in under a month. For those those latter two, I'd imagine you can get something barely not broken running at best but there'd be zero long term viability to your project w/o you having to rewrite everything.

The more realistic option would be like those text adventure that are based on html trio, because you can just do a link based "game" but then if you want any kind of more advanced features, you'd have to dabble in JS and that is not trivial depending on how complex you want to get.

Overall if you are self-learning, I think to be at a level where you can just look at the code portion of a game in a minimally time-efficient manner, it'd take like 3-4 months for learning/practicing/projects, and that's just the starting point.

>>4572155
For less than that wars have been waged. I propose, annihilating /3/ and their offspring

>>4572231
You learn by following a tutorial that makes a game similar to what you wantbto make. You can skip tons of shit you dont need to know compared to following a generic c++ or c# book.
You will have gaps in your knowledge but you will be able to make dtuff faster and can fill in the gaps over time.

>>4572206
I missed 3D, if you are doing 3D, you will also need to know a bit about computer graphics, and that needs some basic concepts from linear algebra, the related class has the reputation of being time consuming, and people usually take it in their second year.

>>4572244
No you dont. Unless you are making your own engine everything is documented and googleable on the fly for unity and unreal.

>>4572240
>gap

nigga, if you do it under a month it wouldn't be gap, it'd be ocean, and your working knowledge would be archipelago

>>4572155
>/3/chads got a job
>/ic/fags still can't draw a box

>>4572248
how would you hope to continually work on something without at least a repository of concepts/tools that already exist in your mind and that you can readily and efficiently retrieve from? the concepts are needed to understand how to use the engine and how to make things happen, and by god, if what you intend your engine to do isn't happening, which will certainly happen and frequently so even if you do have the tool set, you'll be in quite a ride to figure it out

sure you can study new concepts and refer to the documentation at every turn but I cannot really imagine a workflow like that man, if you say that you can learn coding as you are making a game, sure I agree with that, there are even books that teach you like that, they have you work on some basic game as they introduce you new programming concepts, which build on top of each others, and then your game get more and more complex as your skills grow, those will certainly take more than a month

but to reach a level where you can code your game, in an utility sense of any significance, it'll certainly takes more than a month, and that isn't bad or anything, that's normal, you are on /ic/, you'd certainly understand, learn to code in a month is the drawing equivalent of trying to learn the basics in a month then wing the rest to start going for finished pieces

I think this part from the first few page of Vilppu's Drawing Manual sums it up pretty neatly in pic related

but I guess on a spiritual level, your way of thinking is probably pretty prevalent in the industry seeing how much people in /g/ and stackexchange complain about having to fix and/or refactor shit code that aren't really maintainable at all, so to an extend, it's viable as well but that'd certainly make the world a less happy place

>>4572155
They probably are, look at some of the cringe posts in this thread

>>4572310
No. They aren't.

>>4572279
"The supreme misfortune is when theory outstrips performance".
Getting a rundown on key concepts and fundamentals as well as potential hurdles is very important but going through a book learning concepts without understanding their practical relevance to game dev is not very helpful.
Its like reading and watching every resource on /ic/ without ever finishing a single piece. You are studying an index of answers when you dont know the questions they answer.
Ideally you balance theory, practice and finished work in all areas. But if you want to learn quickly how to paint a landscape you don't spend months in figure drawing.

>>4572155
/ic/ doesn't draw

>>4572372
>1 month and good to go

seems balanced to me

What if I like both and am learning one to improve the other?

>>4572380
I didnt say 1 month that was an esl anon. Also I did'nt say you learn quickly by learning balanced, I said ideally but if time is an issue you can't and dont have to balance. Most college graduates dont know shit about practical software development or making professional art on a deadline and learn everything on the job.

>>4572195
Their board is already a ghost town LOL

>>4572265
did he make them all cum or something?

>>4572382
gmi and hireable

>>4572397

anon, first, I agree with you that practice is very important, but that doesn't mean you learn faster by just winging it without a conceptual foundation, if you read what I say in my post, I was talking about how you'd actually learn slower and end up with crappier work, unless you think not knowing what you are doing results in the opposite, in art, you can think of how analytical approach versus intuitive, with the former focusing on a conceptual framework and the latter focusing on doing it until it feels right, it's pretty much agreed that the first one is more efficient for improvement, and this is with a field with much less amount of theoretical background

and, don't you think the book that teaches you how to program by having you making a game in the relevant language is specific enough? I don't see how your example of figure drawing and landscape being applicable or relevant to my point, you can certainly focus on game programming, but game programming, been a subset of programming, make use of most fundamental concepts of programming, it's more accurate describe it as going for the finishing piece, which include landscape and people, while barely grasping the basics, except it's programming and instead of things looking bad and tacky, they would just straight up not work

and about college graduates, personal projects and internships are a must nowadays to stay competitive, in the addition, the college, at least on a undergrad level, teaches mostly introductory classes, they are not meant to be an end like a vocational school, they give you the knowledge base to expand on with feedback on everything you do and at least for me, a need to build a system to acquire new information quickly, both of which will benefit you in your acquisition of more specific professional knowledge, so I don't think how not being a college graduate would be an disadvantage in any case, unless you live somewhere where higher education is very expensive

>>4572397
anon, first, I agree with you that practice is very important, but that doesn't mean you learn faster by favoring application at cost of conceptual understanding, in my post, I was talking about how you'd actually learn slower and end up with crappier work, unless you think not knowing what you are doing results in the opposite, in art, you can think of how analytical approach versus intuitive, with the former focusing on a conceptual framework and the latter focusing on doing it until it feels right, it's pretty much agreed that the first one is more efficient for improvement, and this is with a field with much less amount of theoretical background

and, don't you think the book that teaches you how to program by having you making a game in the relevant language in my post is specific enough? I don't see how your example of figure drawing and landscape is applicable or relevant to my point, you can certainly focus on game programming, but game programming, been a subset of programming, make use of most fundamental concepts of programming, it's more accurate to describe it as going for the finishing piece, which include landscape and people, while barely grasping the basics, except it's programming and instead of things looking bad and tacky, they would just straight up not work, time needed is my disagreement

for college graduates, personal projects and internships are a must nowadays to be competitive, plus, the college, at least on a undergrad level, teaches mostly introductory classes, they are not meant to be an end like a vocational school, they give you the knowledge base to expand on with feedback on everything you do and at least for me, a need to build a system to acquire new information quickly, both of which will probably benefit me in my acquisition of more specific professional knowledge, so I don't think how being a college graduate would be an disadvantage in any case, unless you live somewhere where higher education is very expensive

>>4572156
BASED
A
S
E
D

>>4572231
>Ren'py
Literally takes 5 minutes to learn

>>4572506
i never had experience with it

is it mostly through an user interface?

I'd like to learn 3D as well so I can make stuff like these

https://rule34.xxx/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=3681557

>>4572506
>VN
>game

>>4572156
sculpting is literally the highest form of art

>>4572530
Draw like a painter
Paint like a sculptor
Sculpt like an animator
Animate like a writer
Writing is the highest form of art, the most base of storytelling

>>4572397
I don't disagree with your point at all really, I personally tilt towards the two extremes in both. I have almost zero personal project when it comes to CS stuff and I've been winging it for drawing for as long as I can remember. I just feel like saying you can learn to code for game purpose under a month is kinda irresponsable, if he can do it and make it work, all the power to him, but most people won't be able to, it's a long term WIP in term of skill like any other remotely complex endeavor.

if you know a thing or two when it comes to project ideas, what did you do for your personal projects when you were about 2 years in? on that department, I feel like my lack of practice is holding me back

>>4572534
write like a thinker

thinking is the highest form of art

>>4572265
dem eye animation

>>4572537
And think like a brainlet.
Thats why almost everything is shit

>>4572547
ah it's really came full circle

/3/ lacks soul

>>4572172
I mean, in the original meme the chad is the one actually wrong

I hate realistic cgi

I love cheesy plastic looking cgi
there is a charm in it

Statistically, for every concept artist the industry needs 10 3D modelers.

>>4574172
is it easier to sustain oneself being a 3D modeler?

>>4574246
It's probably easier and quicker to get an entry level job. Entry level studio 2d jobs are rarer. Concept Design (including character, environment, prop, mechanical etc), Storyboarding and Background/Layout are the main 2d opportunities in every field and they are highly competitive and usually looking for experienced professionals.
3D has a lot of positions (modelling, texturing, rigging, animating, lighting, rendering and compositing everything together) and you can give a lot of monkey work to inexperienced people.
Although for most 2D positions good training is getting rarer and rarer so if you actually DO have the training and skills to produce a good portfolio but no experience, people will still jump at the opportunity to hire someone competent.

>>4572265
Illya is a 2dfag though, he designed the shitty new design and some poor lad had to put them together in like 2 days through blender and shit them out to the animation team.

>>4574272
oh darn, that's very interesting, my upstairs neighbor is working as a 3D artist working for Square Enix, he does modelling

I'm already too far down the code monkey road thinking that there would be a sweet spot mixing art and programming, but I've came to realize that the creative side is mostly about application usage, not dev work, and the actual dev work is based on computer graphics which is highly mathematical, I guess I'll have to keep it a hobby

This board is too busy crabbing on itself to coordinate an attack against another one

do 3d fagshave to grind loomis?

3d is superior in every way

>>4575358
Death to 3D!

Are there any recommended tutorials how to make cgi models?

>>4572547
Woah...

>>4572382
Source?
(For the poser, I know that it's 2B)

2dbros, we got too cocky...

>>4575512
Oh nonononono NOOO

If you are not doing both you are NGMI
(pic is 3D)

>>4572231
The best way to learn code in my opinion is to learn C. I spent 3 months reading a C textbook and doing all of the examples and I'm confident now that I can learn any language in a day. Understanding basic data structures and memory management felt like the hidden key to the universe for me.
1 month is definitely not enough from scratch though. I took a month on pointers alone. You can learn loops in 20 minutes. Figuring out how to put everything together without it blowing up is a different story, especially with larger applications.>>4572231

>>4572155
The final redpill is 2D for characters, 3D for everything else.

>>4575673
hmmm

>>4575693
women arent characters.

Yeah bro the artist totally didn’t model over some character sheets.

>>4575693
>>4575512
Soulless

>>4575733
Keep telling yourself that

Tablet and photoshop is a simulation of painting.
Blender/Maya is a simulation of sculpting.
Either way it's just pretenders sat at their computers clicking away.

>>4575774
> simulation of painting
> simulation of sculpting

At least it's something, which is far more than can be said about what you're putting out.

>>4575774
I highly doubt you paint or sculpt lmao
Because if you did either you'd know how retarded you sound

>>4575774
printers exist

>>4575662
>I'm confident now that I can learn any language in a day.
pyw