/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Jannies deleted my long ass essay.
TL;DR even in "hard" STEM skills, pros say exactly the same thing as pro artists. "I don't know how I do it, I just do it". They never say "well I just apply my fundies and get the answer". So I think trying to "master the fundies" before you make any art is fundamentally wrong headed, because it doesn't match up with how people actually learn and work. You just gotta bang your head into the wall enough times and try enough different things and watch how other people do it and eventually you pick up the patterns. That's how I learned every other skill I know at a high level, from the "hardest" (computer programming) to the "softest" (competitive fighting games) and I don't see why drawing, the poster child for soft intuitive skills, would be any different.

Should a thread be recreated right after it being deleted by the moderation?

>>4552403
>wrong headed

>>4552394
gonna guess this is a continuation of the other bait thread
thread died before i could answer to a guy asking for advice, so gonna paste it here. maybe he can see it, whatever.

>"well if you JUST learned fundies and mastered simplified 3D forms then you'd always be able to draw anything you wanted", but we all know that's bullshit. If it wasn't bullshit, then beginners wouldn't draw like ass despite putting hundreds of hours into boxes and Loomis heads, and pros wouldn't have certain poses/expressions that they were more comfortable with than others, or use references, because they would always just be able to construct everything from scratch. It's just clearly not the real mental process for how drawing actually gets done.
Construction with basic shapes is about understanding and simplifying the form of the thing you are drawing and then adding more and more.

Do you know how to simplify the musculature of man at first sight? and the one of horse? you may be lacking information.
This is why you need to study the subject with different references first (or in this case check some anatomy info) if you want a really good result on first try, unless you are straight copying.

If you are straight copying it's pretty easy, fundamentals:
1- Train the eye. learn to see objectively. You need to get rid of symbol drawing asap.
2- Learn how to measure so you get good proportions, learn value (dark to white) and control line and its quality.
3- Done, quality will improve with practice.

I'm simplifying but if you want more info just grab some books and start learning

>>4552406
Should a thread whose subject and image directly pertains to artwork and critique be even more unfairly deleted than the previous one?

>>4552406
>>4552414
mods were kind of dicks desu, the autist flame war was over

>>4552418
Yup, I put a lot of energy into that thread...

>>4552394
>>4552403
I think about this everyday but even if the answer I come up with is right there will always be someone that doubts it. Everyone thinks there's some magical secret, a special sauce that makes a good artist.

>>4552413
>grab some books
He may pick bad ones. Which ones would you recommend?

>>4552394
No. I don't talk to the begs unless I really like their effort.
Sometimes you see somebody trying to figure things out and having a spark of right ideas, that's the good guy you help them. When you see an opinionated retard with childish doodles you ask for their blog in heat to make them feel like they are great.

>>4552441
Exactly. If people aren't willing to bust their ass and be very critical of their own work thus pushing themselves to improve, they're ngmi.

You're not suddenly an artist the moment you grab a pencil and begin doodling in your sketchbook. You're just an aspiring artist, a student, a little boy. First learn, then come play with the big boys.

>gatekeeping art of all things

>>4552471
Post your portfolio.

>>4552433
>sticky, "One-Stop Beginners' Guide" is pretty decent actually
>>1579290

start with beginner books, then intermediate, then pro ones
if you skip beg advanced ones look lacking/gibberish cause the info is too condensated

idk if "Steve Huston - Figure Drawing for Artists" is on that guide but I enjoyed it
made me click and understand how light works pretty easy, + i really like his style

>for total begs:
> Keys to drawing - Bert Dodson
or
> Drawing on the right side of the brain - Betty Edwards

don't fall for the Loomis meme

>>4552441
yeah, i usually don't go into deep answers unless people shows interest and is able to take criticism

>>4552477
>don't fall for the Loomis meme

>>4552481
I think what he meant was that Loomis isn't for complete beginners.

>>4552475
I don't have a portfolio

>>4552506
>>4552481
I don't know what he meant but I don't feel like Loomis is that great. He's a meme because he wrote the books about basically everything at all but he's not the best at anything. He's not bad wrong or harmful, but there's a better teacher on every topic that he covered.

His perspective is basically
>do like this and it will be ok
While Robertson actually explains in detail
His anatomy course is vastly inferior to Vilppu, Hampton and others.

>>4552516
That speaks volumes.

>>4552521
I don't see how it does but whatever. Do you have a portfolio?

>>4552530
Yes, on ArtStation.

>>4552543
Post it

>>4552544
It has my first name, last name and self-portrait. I don't want to be associated with 4chan so no.

>>4552518
I'm re-reading some Loomis books at bedtime right now. In Creative Ill (I think), he literally tells you not to shirk learning perspective and to go get books on it & study it. He's not trying to cover it all himself.

>>4552506
>I think what he meant was that Loomis isn't for complete beginners.
Yes, starting with Loomis is a mistake.

>>4552518
>I don't know what he meant but I don't feel like Loomis is that great. He's a meme because he wrote the books about basically everything at all but he's not the best at anything. He's not bad wrong or harmful, but there's a better teacher on every topic that he covered.
Agree, while the books are not "bad" other books are way better.
They feel and look outdated to me. Some exercises are "fun" but art standards are different now.

But by any means, if you can't access anything else use them. You can get them legally for free.

>>4552403
>t. code monkey who thinks he's doing work even near the caliber of actual engineers who spent years studying their field
pathetic dunny.

>>4552394
You should never draw at all.

>>4552569
Loomis is a mistake in general.
Norling, then Hampton, then Bridgman+Anatomy Atlas is the truth.

>>4552896
I wrote a game from scratch in C++ without using an existing engine. I make a good living from what I do. I'm quite happy with my skill level and what it's enabled me to do. Are you saying that because I'm not Linus Torvalds or Richard Stallman then I didn't actually learn anything?

>>4553205
Based also what game

>>4553434
It was a relatively small thing that I never released anywhere.

>>4552411
my dick slipped into her ass,
call it wrong headed

>>4553167
What did he mean by this?

>>4552394
>>4552414
>>4552421
>>4552456
>*sniffles* w-why was m-my *eyes water* thread deleted?
You really need to use new material if you don't want your obvious bait threads to get noticed and reported.

Saged and reported btw.

>>4553782
PTSD

>>4553472
Can we see some screenshots?

>>4553782
Rule 7: Submitting false or misclassified reports, or otherwise abusing the reporting system may result in a ban. Replying to a thread stating that you've reported or "saged" it, or another post, is also not allowed.

>>4552403
drawing is harder than programming

>>4554721
Agreed
t. programmer

>>4554721
while its true that programming something that isn't shit is easier than drawing something that isn't shit, at the higher levels programming starts to become very complex. Unlike a professional artist a programmer won't be able to go in a relaxing autopilot mode. Or maybe I do it wrong.

>>4554764
>at the higher levels programming starts to become very complex
Same for drawing from imagination.

>>4554764
drawing, i.e. constructing will always require focus. Sure, there's rendering stages where you can noodle and listen to a podcast, but that comes when all the drawing is laid down.

>>4552394

>>4552403
The reason you never hear people in STEM fields say "using fundies" is because they're fundamentals. You don't get into an engineering job without getting a degree in engineering. You're expected to know these things, that the whole point of the fucking degree.

>>4559536
I'm the guy you're replying to, I work in a STEM field, I have a degree and it did not teach me a single damn thing that I actually use on the job.

>>4559966
What's your job?

>>4560076
Software development

>>4552422
>Everyone thinks there's some magical secret, a special sauce that makes a good artist.
Well lets just clear up a few things straight off the bat.
It is literally impossible to be a good artist unless you believe in God. Artistic talent is ordained by the Lord on high and is gifted to those deemed worthy of receiving his blessing. I'm talking about G O D not Allah, not whoever the Jews worship probably Satan I assume.
God the Christian God.
Now you can call this magic, call it special sauce, call it whatever you want but that's the God's honest truth and the sooner you make peace with this fact the better.
You must ask the Lord for forgiveness if you want to make any artistic gains whatsoever, look into your heart, you know this to be true.
Amen brother Go with Christ

>>4560121
Post Your Christian Work

>>4560092
not that anon but i've never keked so hard. are you serious? software engineering is HARDLY a STEM field to even be remotely associated with engineering of the physical world. Your fundamentals are CSS, HTML, and Javascript. But they cannot even compare to the fundamentals that an actual engineer has to learn in order to manipulate and create from nothing something that is a physical manifestation, an improvement or new tool to function in this world. don't you dare disgust me or my son with that "profession" ever again.

>>4552394
The /ic/ hidden discord link https://discord.gg/B5QXC2s
It has to stay hidden or discord will shut it down. As far as discord knows it's an Australian Roblox themed server..

>>4560121
>God the Christian God
1 Samuel 15:3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.
>Go with Christ
But he's dead and not coming back, dude.

>>4560221
You are a lost soul and you desperately need Jesus my friend. It is not too late to repent and be saved.
Go with Christ brother.

>>4560186
>>4560092
Any autist with an internet connection can teach themselves coding if they really want to. Thermodynamics, heat transfer, fluid mechanics, vibration, etc? Good luck finding any comprehensive source of any Mechanical Engineering course past the first 2 years outside of an actual textbook. There's a reason Engineers (and for the same reason, doctors) are among the highest paid professions out there.

>>4552394
The anatomy in that picture is wrong

>>4560294
Explain

>>4560290
Why do I need Jesus when the accounts about his resurrection are not credible at all?

>>4560290
saying this will definitely convert someone /s

>>4560302
Go to church my Jewish friend and you will understand, don't wear your fedora though as they are not allowed on Holy ground.
>>4560316
>/s
Return to reddit you little queer.

>>4560321
>my Jewish friend
I don't believe that jews were ever chosen by the creator of the Universe, I don't believe that the creator of the Universe ever asked them to mutilate their dicks, I reject all jewish superheroes such as Joshua as fictional, I don't believe Solomon was this wise genius and I don't believe (like all scholars) that he authored all those proverbs, in fact, he probably didn't even exist, I reject the Exodus story which is central to Judaism (for which there is zero archeological and historical evidence), etc. etc. I reject all jewish fairytales, so who's more jewish here (I'm not anti-semitic btw)? The one who rejects jewish lies (me) or the one (you) who defends Judeo-Christianity while being all butthurt because I mock its idiocy? I bet you're circumcised too while I'm not, lmao cope.
>you little queer
You just sinned by insulting someone using a slur accusing them of being a homosexual.

Colossians 3:8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.

You're now in a state of mortal sin, if you were to have a heart attack right now and die, you would wake up in Yahweh's torture chamber and begin your eternal agony. So get on your knees like a good little boy and ask for forgiveness to your jewish rabbi Yeshua so the wrath of the war god Yahweh doesn't fall upon you, poor scared little weakling.

>>4560321

bump

>>4552394
I mostly agree with this. Art and creativity-related things don't really require you know much. Most successful people don't know what the fuck they're doing, but they know what people wanna see/hear. Then they learn once they're solidified. Not a starving artist who's crying at winners or trying to preach to people who are looking for answers, some boomer-esque tirade about how they need to start from .01 before they even try to understand .10 of the life.

>>4552394
How do I fundies?

Does Loomis count?