/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

OP continuing here.
The path to become a surgeon, continuing on the example of surgeons, is far more strenuous than that of an artist. They have to, very literally, grind fundies for over a decade before getting there. More often than not, being in the ward implies sleeping 4 or less hours a day. Try learning from medical books with your brain on 4 hours of sleep. They have to deal with the stress of dealing with people all the time, something that can be quite difficult if they are introverts. And on top of all that, if they fail and they are in college debt, they remain in a hole that will take them decades to leave.
But I could apply this same example to other areas. Chemical engineers, architects, rocket scientists, they all dedicate their lives to activities that, in raw terms of "amount of variables", exceed by far what we work with in art. So every next time you look down at your artwork and think its too complex, remember that there are other more complex things around and people still make it. You are going to make it, but only if you start thinking of yourself as your own best friend and stop punishing yourself mentally. You can make it, anon.

I'm gonna further derail this super-long post with more points of discussion.

OP, we got your point when you mentioned how much more complex surgery is, on top of already being a life-saving role. I'd also say surgeons are a far juxtaposition to artists, although sure, I agree.

I would argue that, normally, surgeons are born surgeons. They were born to put in the decades-long worth of work to become a surgeon. They can naturally keep a mental note of multiple things at once, have high IQs, etc. I believe there was a statistic that the job title has a fairly high number of sociopaths, right after television hosts (Bill O'Reilly, Tucker Carlson, etc). To be fair, if I were going through surgery, I would want a stone-cold sociopath holding that knife on me, because I know that he wouldn't make a mistake with their super precise cuts.

Every skill is complex though. And there are never any shortcuts. Take sculpting for example. Another thing I'd argue is that art can also have some effect on society as a whole, rather than an how a surgeon affects one life. The way people of a certain race are depicted, or the way a certain city or country is depicted, can have devastating consequences. Art can also dehumanize and be used as a weapon.

>>4548867
>Art can also dehumanize and be used as a weapon
When art is put in service of propaganda it sure does. And the aesthetical taste of generations and societies get formed by the collective perception and production of art for sure. The artist actively partakes in the creation and transformation of collective mentality. All of which can, -getting back to the point- be achieved with some consistent work and by applying some organization to the techniques used. Every person, even if not talented, can make it. I am going to say, artwork is among the intermediate of human activities in terms of complexity. It is not as easy as writing stories or becoming an historian, but it definitively does not go to the extents of, lets say, quantum physics. Therefore, there is no need for all of the people here to burden themselves with the belief that it is impossible, or unreachable, or something that only the super gifted can do.

didn't read

>>4548867
Ok retard.

>>4548929
Ok defeatist

Badly written and no paragraphs, I gave up halfway through the first post.

Good and well thought out post. Thanks OP.

>>4548940
>NOOOOO WHERE'S MY REDDITSPACING

> wrote a blogpost
> about a trollpost from yesterday

Hahaha

>>4549003
>uses spacebar after ">"

>>4548989
Yeah, haha! If you don't badly formatted walls of text or 30-character long lines
>all
>in
>green
You must be a ledditard newfag simpcuck!

/ic/ is not your personal blog, brainlet

>>4549014
Now it is, homo

>>4548989
>WAAAAAA WAAAA SIMPLE STRUCTURE AND FORMATING IS REDDIT CULTURE
Neck yourself

Op I like your post good for u for make it

Lol just go draw anon

>>4549012
I love how no one ever responds to this pic.

>>4549091
t. redditcuck

>>4548958
>>4548867
Bump because Nanachi

This really encouraged me as a complete /beg/ (I don't even post there yet), thanks OP

>>4548867
This is a post a lot of people on /ic/ need to read and understand. There are so many harmful mentalities on this board, they don’t understand they are just screwing themselves. But I thought it it was a good post OP.

I can dig not hamstringing myself with anxiety, but what do I do if I can't find the fun in drawing? I can't draw anything for myself without only negative thoughts showing up.

>>4552069
Ok, let's talk about it then. I'm the OP. What is the root of your negative thoughts? And why do you even want to draw?

>>4552075

It's the usual imagination/reality disconnect, it's completely obvious and understandable that I can't draw something that looks good without the practice involved, but it's impossible to stop the emotional reaction to it.

I think drawing is great, you can create worlds, characters, draw dicks and make things that people enjoy. I'm not even sure if I want the attention or if I want to become more of an escapist.

I'm currently going through drawabox and I seem to be holding down my daily routine, but I've burned out the last time I've tried it years ago, and without finding the fun in it I worry it will happen again.

Also, that was surprisingly quick.

(1/2)
>>4552084
>It's the usual imagination/reality disconnect, it's completely obvious and understandable that I can't draw something that looks good without the practice involved, but it's impossible to stop the emotional reaction to it.
So, you imagine pretty pictures in your mind but when you try to put them on paper/screen you can't reproduce what you mind sees, isn't it? And then, the incapability to do so makes you feel negative emotions as result from the frustration.
Listen, this is like math. You cannot study integrals without some knowledge of derivatives, and you can't if you don't understand analytic geometry, and you can't if you don't understand basic algebra and trigonometry. In this process, you have to begin with the basics, and have TRUST, the inner belief that this chained and logical process will lead you to your objective. You must understand that if today all you can do are boxes, the knowledge will help you so that in weeks or months you become able to create what your mind envisions. Because what you envision is Memory, and what you have to develop is spatial-visual intelligence.
>I think drawing is great, you can create worlds, characters, draw dicks and make things that people enjoy. I'm not even sure if I want the attention or if I want to become more of an escapist.
All of that is completely valid, each of those are valid reasons to create or enjoy art, as the very reasons you list is the reason the art industry exists to begin with.
>vI'm currently going through drawabox and I seem to be holding down my daily routine, but I've burned out the last time I've tried it years ago, and without finding the fun in it I worry it will happen again.
Study Vilppu. Drawabox is good, but it focuses too much in straight lines ignoring that organic forms are made from curves. They kind of cover it in lesson 2 but the dude's focus is on drawing landscapes, not living organisms. Vilppu is for you. Do not go after figure drawing, go after his basic stuff.

Too many letters

>>4552084
(2/2)
Ever heard the meme of the sketch master? Mastering sketches is what will allow you to produce worked pieces. All of the shading, anatomy and lighting you can ever put in a drawing depends on how well you can sketch, because sketching is to translate your Memory into visuals.
>Also, that was surprisingly quick.
I was browsing /ic/ when I saw your post. Coincidences.

>>4552109

Yes, I've figured out that I can't expect myself to draw well until I at least have a basic grasp of fundamentals, but up until then I don't know how I'm supposed to make any of this fun.

While being in the actual process of doing the exercises induces a slight flow, and the results are satisfying, trying to draw something else 'just for fun' is stressful, as I can't get anything to look right.

I guess the point that I'm getting at is that I don't think I'll be able to keep up with the practice long term if I can't find something to draw me in to pick up a pencil every day. Thanks for answering, by the way, anon.

>>4552113
There is one way though. There is one way you can sketch for fun, and have pleasant results. Some call it Automatic Drawing. Listen, all you really need to do is to either grab a pencil or a pen with 20-30% saturation and a small sized pencil tool option, and quickly scribble what is in your mind. Try, without stressing yourself, to reproduce what is in your mind into the paper/screen, but do it the following way: think of how you can TRANSLATE what you are thinking into basic shapes or basic angles or basic polygons. Think of how a sculptor, of the olden days, sculpted by making each cut into the marble rock. Each cut is an angle. You can, playfully, do it straight into the paper. And it will look diffuse. But you can rework it until it stops working diffusely. Over and over, until you obtain something that looks good. Just to boost your confidence. Do not worry about any concept as you do, just let your intuition guide your hand. Just do it.

>>4552128

Alright, I'll be trying this today, then. Thanks again.

>>4552133
Good luck.

based post OP, thanks

this can be summarized in "chill your ass"
also I'd add this: not everyone wants to do realism, why some people think every artist must know advanced anatomy, it's fucking stupid and has made a lot of begs just leave this world, /ic/ is cancer

>>4549171
t. no grasp of the world around him. Grow the fuck up

>It is not as hard as you think
Its seems to be harder than I think, the problem for me is not the amount of information or its complexity, as my daily work was designing and implementing fault proof critical systems for both aviation and clinical industries where one mistake could cost lives. The problem is that even given the information it doesn't translate into being able to apply it successfully by any means, there is a lot of uncertainty in the whole process. I'm not one to give up and I'm going to keep practicing, but at the current pace it seems unlikely that I will reach any decent level in the next 10 years.

>>4548867
The hard thing about being a good artist is mainly creativity. And this is something which is very difficult to learn.

The funny thing is that doctors and surgeons existed before we had all these regulations that require them to have 10 years of schooling. Yeah I mean the ancient egyptian surgeons probably killed half of their patients but I don't think surgery is really that hard.

>>4548867
Nope, it's as hard as I think it is, fuck you you dumb bun.

>>4552747
>I don't think surgery is really that hard.
I think it is hard, but mainly only because it must be fucking annoying and stressful. The actual process of cutting bodies and doing whatever they do there is probably not that complicated to learn.

>>4552128
I'm having a bit of trouble parsing this. Do you happen to know of any place this is demonstrated or described in more detail? I did a little searching myself, but I largely just came across people making weird abstract scribbles, which doesn't sound like what you're describing.

It would be nice to have some small shred of evidence that drawing is a skill that I'm capable of learning/performing.

>>4548867
Gmi

The main difference between surgeons and artists is: even mediocre surgeons are respected and earn well.

>>4555078
thats because you're literally not allowed to be a surgeon unless you pass some objective criteria. any freebleeding cunt with a canvas can be an artist

>>4552140

Well shit, it kinda works, it's not amazing but at least I'm getting some mileage in with a bit of fun involved. I guess I did the usual where I overthink a lot and miss really obvious stuff, like fucking basic sketching of all things. Maybe there really is a chance of making it this time.

I appreciate what you wrote, OP.

>>4548867
Thanks OP

>>4555110
but the objective criteria is not practice.
It's a catalogue of supervised surgeries that you need to tick off and ofc theoretic tests.

But I admit nobody who is truly mediocre would manage to fill his catalogue before getting fired.

>>4548867
Reading all this shit instead of drawing is why you're NGMI

>>4555749
nooo i'm legit reading all of it