/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

https://twitter.com/cot_510

>>4408620

I wanna post work but are these threads worth posting to?

eye study

>>4408620
o-one day..

>>4408636
Use the main /beg/ thread. This usually dies fast.

>>4408673
because this thread gets murdered every time

I've been copying Kubo art style for the past week. Spent about 4-5 hours just copying over and over again. I decided to try and draw something and came up with this.

I honestly think this is better than learning fundies. I've never been much happier drawing

>>4408685
You're getting fundies from copying which is pretty much fine.
Some autistic anons tries so hard to push other anons to learn fundies from loomis and co but you can also learn it outside of those.

>>4408697
I don't even know anymore what people mean by fundies

If I'm learning how to construct anime heads at any angle is that fundies or do I need to draw a still life of an apple if I want to qualify

>>4408697
>>4408698
i don't get why you would push something on someone if it doesn't work for them, everyone learns a different way and I was able to learn better by copying kubo

>>4408698
former is what "learning" supposed to meant, latter is what some /ic/ s think.

>>4408704
Those anons treat it like its the holy law lol

>>4408698
yes, making anime heads is part of fundies.
also copying animu teaches a lot of the things still life would, though getting perspective/lighting from most anime is working up a pretty steep hill.

>>4408685
Is that from imagination? If it is it's really sick.

>>4408636
same question every thread

I cannot the life of me cannot figure out what is the construction of her torso

>>4408858
what the fuck am I even looking at

>>4408860
a very big okuu

>>4408858
Well step 1 is you should be studying/analyzing art that doesn't suck.

>>4408858
you mean the part where her right arm enters a warp zone? or besides that?

I swear i had Hitokaku
Its gone now
Guess I have to use Bridgeman

>>4408896
Try constructing the torso in terms of (simplified) actual body parts rather than a box or some other solid shape. Like for the area around the rib cage, draw a line for the sternum (remember to feel the form and have it wrap around), simplified lines for the pecs, maybe the corners of the ribcage or the contour of the back as appropriate for the view you're doing, and you're already most of the way there. Since you mentioned Bridgman, some of the drawings right at the beginning of his book show examples of this approach.

>>4408677
No because it’s filled with retarded /beg/s.

>>4408685
Now draw that in a different angle. :)

>>4408918

>>4408918
Is that supposed to be a gotcha or something?
You faggots act like if you just read Loomis then anyone will be able to perfectly draw any pose from any angle. But a simple cruise through /beg/ shows that the reality is very different.

>>4408927
7 minutes, damn anon.

I'm gonna try to study more human bodies when I get home
Mikutrash's weird homunculi Mikus are disgusting but his subject matter is pretty neat
Gonna see if I can make loliku with my influence as a sort of study

>>4408698
Art fundies are the equivalent of grammar, spelling, puntuaction you use to write a text or a book. Without them you'll struggle a lot trying to express what you want to.

It doesn't matter what source you learn from either, as long as that source is good and won't hinder you time/quality wise.

>>4408974
People struggle to express what they want even after "studying fundies".
If you guys really were busting out these amazing works after reading Loomis then I would agree that there's something to it. But you don't. You have to go through all the same grinding everyone else does, just with more funny looking box heads.

>>4408637
They look awesome Anon. Mine look like shit.

>>4408989
Just by knowing grammar, spelling, etc you won't bust out great books, that takes (life) experience, knowledge and creativity. These fundies only allow to express what you want, whether that's a turd or not depends solely on you.

>>4408991
I think you're too hard on yourself 80sAnon. Obviously you have room for improvement but so does everyone else. I like the stuff you post.

>>4408992
There are thousands of fanfics and books that have impeccable writing but a shit story. Same with art.

>>4409004
I don't even want to turn this into a "technique vs style" debate. I think it's a false dichotomy. Representational art needs both to be good.
My disagreement with the fundiesfags is that they claim to have special methods that will speed up the learning process and allow you to draw from imagination more quickly. In my experience, both of observing their work and trying out the methods for myself, this is not true. Loomis heads, gesture drawing, boxes, have all been minimally helpful at best. The vast majority of my improvement has come from copying other artists, and through trial and error. I wish there were these great shortcut methods like the fundiesfags suggest, but right now I have no reason to believe that it's true. The fact that virtually no professional artists actually use these methods to draw is also telling. The assertion that they all USED TO use them while they were learning and have since moved beyond them is not very credible.
I do think knowledge of anatomy is necessary for being a good artist, but the best way to acquire and apply that knowledge is highly debatable.

>>4409015
>It doesn't matter what source you learn from either, as long as that source is good and won't hinder you time/quality wise.

>they're doing it again

>>4408673
/beg/ is deader and they hate anime

>>4408685
Learning how to draw from copying your favorite artists is too good to be true. You need to be miserable and learn shit that you have no idea when to apply when drawing cute anime girls.

Can you post some work from before this past week when you started learning like this?

>>4408685
Based copychad.
Loomisniggers on suicidewatch

>>4409015
I think gesture helped me quite a bit. Which I think only strengthens the point that the best way to learn is to copy. You're drawing all these weird poses in a limited amount of time and you end up saving those things in your visual library which you can access to help you draw similar poses. I also find them quite fun in contrast with other fundies.

>>4409067
What happens when you need to create something that doesn't exist so you can't copy it?

>>4409074
It's the same for fundies, is it not? You use the knowledge of the things you already have in you memory to fill in the blanks. Like if you draw the profile, 3/4 and frontal view of a face you have a pretty decent idea of how to draw that face from any generally frontal angle in that plane. And of course with the internet nowadays there's no shortage of reference images to learn from so that's a pretty unlikely scenario.

I still think some fundies like perspective and anatomy are important though because it's somewhat difficult to learn them from just copying other works.

>>4409031
That all these threads are at this point

>>4409098
No, I meant like designing some shit, some device that looks nothing like what we have today without using fundies. Mostly for patent reasons.

>>4408858

>>4409128
I'm mainly talking about figure drawing because I believe that's why most people are here including me. But as far as I know you don't need a whole lot of technical skill to design a device, it's mostly creativity.

>>4408858
Just copy it, bro, you'll gain the fundies.

>>4408685
loomisniggers will come at your head since you can draw better than them by learning from copying

>>4409672
>>4409060
What are you even going on about? Master studies are an extremely important part to learning the fundamentals and how to draw.. why do think there are plates in the loomis books?

Am I just retarded or are anime eyes deceptively hard

>>4409822
They are quite hard.

>>4409822
Copy better

>>4409822
The first, but I too was a retard so don't worry.

>finally read loomis
>>oooh cool so just spheres and planes huh

>try to construct a simple rem face using loomis
>but her head is not a sphere shape, it's more like an oval

wow thanks for nothing
Shit might work for comics or when constructing free-form from imagination but it's completely useless when trying to study existing characters

>>4409848
Oh no it’s retarded.

>>4409848
Cool, now we know you don't know how use the tools. Try not to jam to many square pegs into round holes.

>>4409822
Unlike what most niggers will tell you, loomis doesn't actually work for anime eyes.
Your best bet is to just copy thousands of anime faces.

>>4409822
>tfw can draw everything else but anime eyes so all my faces are fucked
I’m NGMI guys

>>4409907
Try drawing elipses first and then refine them into an eye shape.
The minor axis for each eye should point slightly outward from the direction the character is facing and the distance between them is about one eye length, but that also depends on the style you're going for.

>>4409915
The part that usually gets me is the iris part and the eyelash design. I can’t follow the logic.

>>4409924
Trace a few, break those eyelashes in smaller shapes (easier done with anime eyes from anime and not illustrations, or cel shadedcolored illustrations). Don't reinvent the wheel until you understand what makes those good looking and is an eyelash expert. Same for iris.

>>4409940
Thanks for the advice. I’ll see how it goes over the next few weeks.

>>4409848
too bad it's illegal to use loomis with any forms besides a single sphere, isn't it?

>>4409948
>Using a meme method

>>4409954
At least meme it right, the right eye is bigger.

>>4409954
>but her head is not a sphere shape, it's more like an oval

>>4408685
/thread
http://i.4cdn.org/ic/1583536425499.png

>>4409954
kek

>>4409990
>linking to the image
jesus christ

>>4409990

>>4408685
>>4409990
OH NO NO NO NO
LOOK AT THIS DUDE
Imagine being a fucking lying nigger in order to get validation from anonymous posters. This is both sad and cringe

>>4409990
>>4410019
Yikes

>>4410030
>>4410030
It seems this entire general is built on a mountain of lies.

>>4410019
I don't get it.
That's the image he copied, so what?

>>4410039
the smudge marks are the exact same

>>4410039
Based, so this is what /asg/ means by the power of copying

>>4410039
are you retarded?

>>4410049
He's just really good at copying

>>4410039
/asg/ retard in denial

>>4410039
not unless he also copied those smudges

>>4410039
This was posted in 2013. Look at the date

>>4410054
Totally possible based on sight size methods and academic paintings I have seen. They even can copy text out of a book.

>>4410064
The amount of cope in this post. /asg/ retards are something else.

>>4410064
Even if he did draw his own perfect copy, that wouldn't be impressive. Any monkey can get good at copying with enough grinding. Drawing from imagination is what takes knowledge and skill.

Keep copying /asg/, one day you too will get called out of stealing art when all you did was 1:1 copy every single atom of a drawing.

>no one here actually posts their work, it's all just endless argument about what method is best for leaning
Here's a method that will 100% make you better at drawing anime: JUST DRAW

>>4410076

Educate yourselves before ever posting here again.
Copying is literally the only way to get anywhere no matter what skill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd-dqUuvLk4

>>4410083
>copy to make it
>but remix it, don't actually copy it

>>4409990
>>4410019
I actually admire how good is 4chan at using the internet.

>>4410076
ahem >>4409188

>>4410092
>no don't copy, just remix it immediately
negative IQ reply.
how are you going to remix something if you don't understand it yet?
why do you think most anime drawings posted here look like dogshit? most of use probably watch anime every day, you would think we'd get it, right?
no.
you have to copy something, to understand it.
once you copied enough stuff, you can start to mix stuff together.
you have nothing to mix if you don't copy first.

>>4410076
>he doesn't know about the first /asg/ threads

>>4410075
>Being this delusional

>>4410101
This. Just take a look at tumblr or deviantart weeaboos. Their art looks like garbage despite clearly understanding the fundies.

>>4410116
Knowing fundies won't let you create good art the same way knowing grammar won't let you create good stories.

>>4410128
Same with copying only anime.

What you need: fundies and a visual library
How to get both at once: copy anime

>>4410128
But Grammer allows you to coherently structure your sentence so people actually know what you’re saying. It’s a lot harder to make a good story if the reader can’t even understand what you’re saying. No different for art

The fundies are actually pretty simple.
What's hard is getting a big enough visual library to draw from imagination.
Look at KJG, he draws from imagination in perspective like it's nothing despite having never actually learned the rules of perspective.
You can pick up the fundies while expanding your visual library.

I love /asg/ it’s like visiting a zoo. Keep being retarded /asg/, you dumbfucks are entertaining as hell.

>>4410076
bark bark, dog

>>4410155
>Look at KJG, he draws from imagination in perspective like it's nothing despite having never actually learned the rules of perspective

Source?

>everyone trying to sell you the final solution yet nobody post their work to back up those claims only argument is '' well some else did it so it must work''

why are you trying to convince me but you can't even show it works for you, yet you want me to lisent to you?

>>4410173
>0 works from imaginations were post
im still waiting

>>4410155
He learned by observation, not by books. Perspective is still a fundie element, doesn't matter where you learn it from. Can you learn construction basics by copying anime? Yeah, be it by sheer luck, big brain usage, or knowing beforehand that construction is a tool artists use to draw, but 2 out of these 3 aren't reliable and if you know about besides coming into it naturally it means you either read, saw or someone told about this fundamental element of drawing.

>>4410185
>Can you learn construction basics by copying anime?
Construction fags are retarded. If you can learn to draw anime by copying anime, you don't need to construct.

>>4410185
i'm pretty sure he studied perspective somewhere, nobody can see the fish eye 5 point perspective. He himself said he draw what he wanted until he reached something he couldn't until then he did studies to figure out how to do it, i'm not gonna argue is the best method, i think you need at least to know perspective and construction to start. I totally agree with the rest of your post.

>>4410177
>>4410076
>>4410178

Last thread literally has work from people who explain how they use fundies but you fags ignore what doesn't suit you

>>4392405
>>4404366
>>4404420
>>4405809
>>4406164
>>4405551

>>4410198
Construction is a meme.
Never have I seen a professional animator or mangaka draw a figure using boxes and cilinders outside of him trying to show perspective to his students.
The most I've ever seen a pro construct is just a simple center line and maybe some quick cross contours to show the form, that's it.

every day you faggots have this argument.

>>4410206
>first comment linked says to just copy anime
well well well, who is the retard now?

>>4410212
>says to just copy anime
retarded

>>4410095
More like how bad. They are not any different from Reddit they just believe anyhting they see.
The first google search result is the fucking tweet.

>>4410216
lol, you are right, my bad

>>4410216
I would say that /asg/ tards are the retards that immediately believed this shit. They didn’t check cause they wanted to have a gotcha moment against fundiechads

>>4410211
Isn't it great? I love it. The war will never end. It's been like this since the very first thread. I'm sure people come and go and it's not even the same people who argue which is why it goes on so long. It's like having a father's son's son go to war and then his son continues to fight too.

>fundies
i can only imagine japanese artists laughing at you when you bring that gay shit up lmao

>>4410234
>he doesn't know
lmao

>>4410234
But you are those Japanese artist, so study fundies you retarded fucknut.

>>4410244
>author isn't japanese
try again.

>>4410234
Fundies coming in hot directly from Japan.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY-tGAhulrOzRd6n1mLZwSg/videos

>>4410245
Aren’t*

>>4410234
>>4410247
Keep being retarded and bad.

>>4410249
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoT480kbsw4
4:52
>if you want to do manga though, it may be better to stick with the manga schools
Please tell me why he would say this if fundies are all you need and fundies are being taught in every art school?

>>4410247
yes, he is now gtfo
https://twitter.com/marioinomario

>>4410265
>can write japanese, so must be japanese
>mario
I'm done with this place.
Keep grinding your vilppu dying old man drawings and loomis heads.

>>4410268
pyw before you go

>>4410268
That’s one less retard in /asg/, soon this place will be cleansed.

>>4410268
you'll get used to it.
people will say stupid shit in these threads just to stir stuff up.
just leave them alone and start drawing instead of wasting time.

>>4410260
Storytelling, manga standard format used, how to keep public interest, paneling, proper use of screentones, knowing your market, getting good examples of what was made throught manga's history for inspiration/learning lesson, how to manage a team of assistants, etc.

>>4410280
>>4410268
I would prefer if you left and never came back so we never have this conflict again. Thank you very much. I also do not need you getting used to this. Please leave forever.

>no one on either side of the argument posts their work as proof that their method works
I think it's literally just 2 or 3 autists spamming the thread.

>>4410296
Pyw

>>4410296
Lets see your work then if you think you're so high and mighty.

>>4410305
your turn

>>4410296
It's only me and my other me, you.

>>4410309
my work

>>4410313
looks very stiff, try some vilppu gestures.

>>4410309
Looks ugly and unappealing, you should copy more anime.

>>4410309
Yikes, this is why you should copy more anime instead of fundimemes.

>>4410323
At least anon won't be replaced by a printer.

What ever happened to that fishine anon who copied for months? Did he give up?

>>4410178
?

>>4410336
He's an animator at studio bones I think.

>>4410244
is the link to the full book?

>>4410338
And I am Craig Mullins.

why is this thread always full of arguing?

>>4410388
What do you think the a in /asg/ stands for?

>>4410388
Less skilled artists prefer to argue over methods than drawing.

>>4408896
I have the 3 books in pdf format if you need them.

>>4410244
I remember this artist posted about Keys to Drawing too, basically almost everything he studied you can find them on /ic/.

>>4410417
Very suspicious isn’t it? Almost like he used /ic/.

>>4410435
He's probably lurking in this thread and laughing his ass off right now.

what can i improve

>>4410408
>tfw more skilled artists just argue over time and money or even fame
There’s no winning

>>4410456
oh yeah no colors yet

>>4410417
Funny, Keys to Drawing and a lot of other books /ic/ hates is actually translated and loved in Japan
https://www.maar.com/shop/technique/デッサンの55の秘訣

>>4410435
Contrary to popular cope, /ic/'s collection of books are actually popular outside of /ic/. I don't know why some people think that we are the only people in the world who use them. Why do you think Loomis is still being reprinted and translated after 60 years if not due to international demand?

>>4410456
is this from imagination?

>>4410462
A book like keys to drawing and Loomis is useless though. They would have already learned all of that material through the educational system since the 3rd grade, junior high and high school. It’s not a coincidence. It was a definite hint at being from /ic/.

>>4410464
ye

>>4410456
The only thing I can point out is the perspective on the clothes.
Rest looks fine.

Is drawing comics the marvel way popular in Japan? Because that's the one I'm using.

>>4410469
Reminder that Loomis is still in the top 10 best-selling drawing books on Amazon.co.jp

I guess all that sales are concentrated exclusively on d/i/cks who live in Japan that can also only speak Japanese?

>>4410496

My issue with Loomis isn't that he is bad, but that his books are very hard to shallow in.

I use alternate authors because they break his concepts in an easier way, but I do think he is great.

Yes, I'm a talentless brainlet, so I do need it to be easier. Save for drawing with pencil, his other books aren't that easy.

>>4410456
Proportion, head seems quite huge

>>4410496>>4410511

For instance, I tried Loomis's mannequin only to fail miserably but I found John Buscema far easier to grasp.

It's not that Loomis isn't great, but that the difficulty level skyrockets once you leave fun with pencil.

>>4410456
How do I get this good? Teach me.

>>4410511
>>4410521
Understandable, it's good to cross-reference multiple books to synthesize your own personal method.

Is there a way to record peoples drawings on pixiv? or is there i place i can watch people draw/render lewds, i cant find any on youtube and pornhub just a bunch of furshit

I love the spicy wolf's illustrator's style

doesn't give a shit about correct facial perspective but it still looks great. It's pretty unique

>>4410624
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>4410624
shit waifu

>go to the drawthreads on /a/
>they're full of amazing illustrators
>some hardly look like they're drawn by westerners

hmm, I wonder why they never post here.

>>4410635
I don't even know why they post on /a/. It's like they're just there to laugh at us plebs.

I did this on Paint.

>>4410635
Where? Everytime I look there's only mediocre ones. The only good drawfags I remember are coupon, tim and rori.

>>4410643
There's a big range in quality in the regular draw thread but the weekend waifu one usually have good quality deliveries.
Like the 3 Honoka ones, Maria, Toga, Maka, Neptune and Prinz. Some of those are pretty western looking but they're still good.
There were some good ones last weekend too.

>>4410658
What you need to do is study anime drawing references for what kind of drawings you want to do. Looking at other random deliveries isn't going to help improve anything. Focus on specific things you want to improve to be closer to what they do.

Right now I'm personally studing this book.

And there is a even a japanese version.

>>4410635
>they're full of amazing illustrators
They probably already know what they are doing and coming here is just a waste of time and braincells.
Also this >>4410660 . Don't compare yourself to others, they have their style and you have yours. Draw everyday with the reference style that you like and you'll innately improve.

>>4410660
>>4410665
Don't know where you guys got the idea that I was comparing my self to them. What I was implying with my original post was that it would be nice to have some actual good artists post here instead of the blind leading the blind.
But yeah, them posting here would probably be a waste of time.

>>4410019
oof

>>4409990
>>4410019
Fundamental fags won

>>4410779
Loomischads just can't stop winning

gonna work harder

>>4410779
obvious false flag to discredit anime studies

Every time I fucking come in here it's just bickering. You fucking fags, get to drawing. You better start posting some fucking new art of yours. Get to it. And yes I WILL fucking be a namefaggot, I'm going to get off my ass and post some drawings soon. Now chop chop anons and fucking get to it.

I started this sketch for an anon who made a request in a gachashit thread I play
Currently getting rekt by the perspective, mainly from the teapot, and I'm also dissatisfied with the facial expression of the girl on the right

>>4410853
the characters

I've been doing fundies for a while now and don't feel like I can draw anime any better than when I started drawing.
I'm going to just copy for 1 week starting today and I'll tell you guys if it works afterwards.

>>4408637
how do you copy it so perfectly

>47 posters
>40 shitposters

>>4410869
it took a very long time like 4+ hours

>>4410869
Try using grids, it makes copying stuff surprisingly easy.

>>4410853
what kind of erxpreession are you going for

Quick post lunch copy before heading back to work

>>4408615
Usually I draw from ref at night, then when I'm at work I draw what I can remember from the day before. With this one I got nothing. It fucking hard. I think I would have to draw the eye 10 times in a row the nose 10 times in a row etc. It would be an all day project then I could attempt to do it from memory then that might repeat everything, so that for a week and I'd be able to draw this one character from this one angle from memory and not be able to apply that knowledge to anything else.

>>4410869
Ctrl+c Ctrl+v might be useful, if you want to put your own spin draw over it.

>>4410861
you better not forget

>>4410861
Imagine thinking you could draw a [motorbike] using fundies even though you never analyzed a [motorbike] for drawing purposes.

>>4411116
I can draw cars and other vehicles in pespective perfectly fine, it's just when I have to do more organic forms that stuff just doesn't click.

>>4411116
You definitely can. Unlike a person they don't have soft tissue and joints. The front wheel barely rotates. It's a bunch of cubes and cylinders.

>>4408615
>>4410456
Chest seems out of perspective. Other than that I only question you taste. Modern anime is so flat and lifeless.

>>4411149
Fucking SAUCE for that please

>>4411149
post your work

>>4411143
A motorbike is more detailed and nuanced than you probably imagine it is.

>>4410853
face on book is too ran she looks like she lost her cheeks and the eyes dont have deep/form like they arent' sunked it's not too obvious tho, femc right upper arm is too big compared to her left so im not sure what is the real size , i too her right arm to the redline so i had to make her left a bit bigger too

were you tryinh to foreshortening her right arm? i just did that in that case and her left arm is too short unlesss it was foreshortened but then it would be too close to her chest

>>4411155
My work is>>4411080

Post your work.

>>4411157
Level of detail does not change or disprove anything I said. A v twin is all primitives, exhaust manifold, suspension, brake lines, spokes, tire treads, what part can't be broken down into repetitive construction of primitives? It is way simpler than organic anatomy in that way. What's complicated about it is it's much less forgiving because you have to symmetry and perspective perfect. If one eye is a little higher than the other that happens in nature, it doesn't happen on a bike.

>>4411152
It's masamune shirow from either appleseed or dominion tank police.

>>4411155
Pyw

>>4411149
I like anime faces, and i think this looks well on this drawing but it also feel like is out of place, it looks 2D while the rest looks very 3D

>>4411167
Knowing fundies alone won't help you know how a bike is built, its proportions, what and where shapes and forms go, etc unless you look at a motorbike and learn from observing one. Same thing for anime stylized shit since shape of the eyes aren't the same from a human figure, hair, chin, nose, proportions too.

>>4411241
You'd be surprised how easy it is to draw vehicles and make it look like you know what you're doing.
Most people don't know exactly how bikes are built.
They have a general image in their head of what a bike looks like, but tehy won't know the exact technical stuff to really be able to tell if your drawing isn't correct.

>>4411241
difference between general audience and autists.
everybody has an intuitive feel for what a person looks like, and weebs have a feel for what anime girls look like. when it gets to machinery it matters to fewer and fewer people. 99% of people don't care that the shoulder thingy that goes up isn't properly positioned on a gun, or whatever the /o/ equivalent is.

>this board is so assblasted by the mere existence of people who want to draw anime that they continually attack this thread and the arguments they start here spill into other threads

>>4411332
I guess even you faggots have some talent, some of you. The other yous can't even draw an anime girl, so get some help.

How do y'all go from copying to making your own art?

>>4411358
>during copying
>realize how artist draws x thing
>while drawing from imagination
>be drawing certain body parts
>get to x thing
>realize artist's way is a better and quicker way of drawing than my own way
>rinse and repeat for every single aspect of art until the old you is gone

>>4411353
>Muh style

>>4411353
>>4411365
So this is why. It was realism and anatomy fags all along? Literally crabbing.

>>4411365
I have never seen a single goddamn person in these threads use that as an excuse for anything, ever. It's purely a strawman.

>>4411455
If you're not defending your own art as style, you don't belong in this thread.

>>4411456
Fuck off false flagger

>>4411374
You only find that crabbing because you can’t handle the truth and your drawn waifu will forever look like shit.

>>4410642
Looks sweet anon. The messy lines add to its charm but I’d still like to see a cleaner version too.
I think you should clean it up a bit and do some more detailed crosshatching. The hair looks good at first glance but the curly strands look lazy. If you’re going for a messy look, try checking out dorohedoro. For crosshatching on clothes I think Witch Hat Atelier has some great references.

>>4411475
This is cope and projection. You wrote it, not me.

>>4411505
>Seething

>Imagine unironically believing you need to be able to draw realistic human figures to draw cartoon characters
you all fell for the oldest jew there is.
goodluck spending your hard earned shekels on proko and vilppu courses lmao.

>>4408991
draw a line where you want the eyes placed

>>4411492
Thanks for the feedback and the recomendation. I googled Witch Hat Atelier and it's pretty close to what I want to achieve as my own art style.

After dinner copy

>>4410972
An expression of happiness and smiling, but without looking too generic

>>4411158
Very nice, thanks lad. Are you the same anon who helped me with that Arturia drawing?

Yeah, I'm trying to foreshortening the arm, it was closer to the chest but without the ellipses it looked flat and gave the impression that I screwed up with the proportions. I'll try to move it a little more to see if I can find a better position.
I will also make the changes you showed me thanks

>>4404366
I've never dealt with such long instructional videos. Am I supposed to watch them and then do the assignments or should I draw along?

>>4411651
yeah i am, but anon dont go over my lines im just showing you how it should look more or less, the point is that you need to be able to do it by yourself or you will still have the underliying problems still.

>>4411697
I tried to fix the arms
but it has been a challenge to try to foreshorten the arms without the use of ellipses(the red ones are temporary), I thought about putting a watch or a bracelet but I wouldn't like to depend on this type of resource.

I confess that I was tempted to copy your hand side by side kek, but even so I tried to analyze it and do it my own way

I will try to find the Anon who made the request in that thread so if you play on NA and have a spot send me your FC there

>>4411678
Yeah, the videos are very long and exhausting but they helped me a lot
this is something that takes weeks, even today I'm still halfway through his anatomy course.
the way I'm doing it is:
watch a lesson>do the assignment>do some figures from real life>draw anime>rise and repeat

I bought this book at target the other day that's just blank comic book panels. I've been putting off starting mine forever even though I have the story written and the characters designed. Went to Starbucks today. Sat there for 3 hours ripped up on caffeine and got a few pages sketched out. Gonna ink them tomorrow. Feels good man.

>>4411946
if you want to get any good at foreshortening you jsut need to know the subject you are drawing, and right know your anatomy is pretty shit desu, if you knew all the muscles in the arm you wouldnt have problems i have never reade any book other than anatomy books, but you can construct anything with boxes circles even sticks, as long as you know the su bject, so you know what masses overlap the others some retards think that is enough to know that the arm is jsut a sausage but heres when you get fucked if you don't know more thatn that.

anyways to make it easy jsut use landmarks , in the boxes 3 and 7 are the same size so regardles of what perspective(except 5 points) you use they will be the same, thats a landmark. the negatives in red is to show you the difference in sizes if you were to use a box so as you can see it's not a sausage, now don't use my example my shit it's not perfect use an anatomy book if you want to study it, but now you can see what masses overlap the others based on that you can use landmarks to construct it on perspective.

tdlr: study anatomy and back to loomis(use anatomy for sculptors).

It's me, the anon who decided to do only copying for 1 week.
Decided to record my progress (or maybe lack thereof) by doing 1 full body drawing from imagination at the end of each day.
Here's day 1. Gotta start somewhere, I guess.

>>4412106

>>4412106
>already this good
The power of copying

>>4412096
Thanks again, anon
You are right about the arms, I don't know anything about them, just the deltoid and basic landmarks because it appeared in the shoulder lesson.
I'm still in the pelvis chapter and for some reason arms are one of the last things in the books and courses I'm watching like pic related.

I'll do what I did during that Arturia drawing, since I'm stuck I will take a break from it and go back to studying figures/anat and then return to finish it.
I appreciate your effort to explain this to me using boxes, it's unironically giving me gains

Also, I'm using Vilppu, Hampton and Anatomy for Sculptors and this seems to be more than enough for anatomy, but since perspective is my bane, does anyone have any book or course recommendations for me to delve into it?

>>4412106
Post your copies too

>>4412106
I’ll start copying now too. What kind of copies do you do? Just drawings from the booru?

>>4412244
>>4412246
Today I mainly copied this pic, each girl individually.
I also did a bunch of tracing before I started properly copying, although I'm not sure how much that actually helped.

>>4412253
Forgot to mention, the artbook this pic is from is called "telegenic!".
I can't remember where I got it from, either this thread's mega or the books thread's mega.

>>4412244
Just realised you meant the copies that I did.
I didn't save any of them but I'll save a few tomorrow.

>>4412246
Is there a booru specifically for images to copy off of? If so could someone share it?

First earnest attempt to work in digital AND color. I'm very much winging it in just about every respect.

What happened to the guy that was copying a billion fishine hentai doujin faces?
Did it do anything for him or was it all a waste of time?

>>4412461
you mean all the aheago faces?

>>4412461
>>4412462
I'm wondering too. He just disappeared.

>>4412455
Cute Nishi! Her neck is pretty thin and her bottom eye lashes are pretty thick. Makes her look like she's really tired from holding up her head.

>>4412180
>but since perspective is my bane, does anyone have any book or course recommendations for me to delve into it?
Marshall Vandruff's perspective course + Scott Robertson's "How To Draw"

>>4412502
Thanks, anon! Made a ton of changes.

Speaking of copying, I did these 2 years ago and I'm really satisfied with it.

>struggled really hard in seeing the construction forms in reference heads
>sleep
>try again
>it's like I'm in the fucking matrix, immediately see the underlying basic forms of my references

sleep is important

>>4412630
I am too. What do you draw like now?

>>4412635
Which construction method did you pick up anon?

>>4412640
loomis and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko3Zaw8zffk&list=PLd9YlgrhwWqCSiGwPwA_N_nqKfTLY1Kn8

>>4411149
>Chest seems out of perspective
i actually saw that before and tried to fix it but it wasn't enough, i did it again now.


is the perspective correct in the right pic? and which would be more lewd between the middle and right

>>4413012
the middle one that shows the full hip width.

How do I make hair look more natural and less like needles? Left two are from reference and right from imagination.

What are the logical steps to learn to draw animay and mangos when starting from nothing?
I did the picasso upside down exercise twice and I think it did help me get over "symbol drawing". I'm kind of starting to learn anatomy but i'm a bit lost and i'm not sure what stuff should be learned first, the sticky didn't really help.

>>4413456
Read the /asg/ sticky

>>4413456
read the op

>>4413456
how is it possible to not read the OP
fucking retard

>>4412515
Thanks, I started watching Marshall Vandruff

should i study figures to truly git gud, or is 2d good enough for cartoons?

>>4413528
>Marshall Vandruff
Where is his course?

>>4413392
Notice how the first one on the left has multiple pieces sticking out of one clumped piece? Do that. It makes the hair appear softer. I’ll link the book that talks a bit about it if I ever remember the name, but don’t hold your breath. If I remember right, it compares western animation to japanese and the general “shark tooth” look westerners use for hair and fur.
A personal suggestion would be to not connect every clump at the scalp. Imply it connects with thinner lines like the left most image, but don’t bring every line to the scalp unless you’re going for more detailed hair.

>>4412180
i can't shill this enough. it's the one resource that finally made it click for me.

>>4413456
Draw copies of anime you like.
Try to make your own drawings.
When they have mistakes, fix them.
Repeat.

>>4413554
Here, it's in russian so try to look for a blue link
https://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2152549

>>4413565
Thanks, I'll look for this one too

>>4410662
Does a scan exist?

any of you guys know how to draw those anime effects like the shining team rocket blasting off way cross in sai. or several anime effects in general?

just getting back into drawing. here’s my attempt

>>4413624

I get a lot of mixed messages on /ic/.
I'm scared shitless to "learn" stuff that's either counter intuitive, hinder me in the long run straight up wrong.
As a matter of fact, I asked how I could combine gesture drawing and Loomis' construction methods (I want to point out that I don't really know anything substantial about both). All it did is make me even more confused on how to approach anything. >>4412954

>>4413629
Master one, master the other one. Use both together.

hello, it's me again. Here for day 2.
This is the one I did from imagination.
Decided to do a male figure to.
I'll post some copies I did today as well.

>>4413648
Tried to replicate some of Yoh Yoshinari's sketches because I like his style.
It's harder than it looks, I found out.

>>4413648
>that chicken scratch
Yikes

>>4413654
This was the one that I spent most time on.
I seperated the different phases to show my workflow.
Not happy with the head but at the end I was just changing things and making it worse so I decided to stop.

>>4413660
From imagination? How long it took to draw it? Great stuff

>>4413660
This is super cool. This is Jack right?

>>4413669
Sorry I should've been more clear.
The one on the left is the ref.

>>4413671
Yes, love his art.
I'm still trying to figure out his shading.

How to decide on what pose/composition to draw? Doing pin up poses is getting repetitive but I lack the skills/patience to do full scenes.

>>4413688
Have you tried thinking about it?

>>4413692
No. Why would I waste my time?

>>4411573
That's literally not a problem, his eyes are even.

>>4413688
Do a million quick thumbnail sketches beforehand

>>4413694
NGMI.

>>4413696
I did these and they all feel boring and uninspired.

>>4413709
Foreshorten every one of these thumbnails, problem solved.

>>4413709
Pretty much what >>4413723 said. A simple pinup pose looks much more interesting if you foreshorten it,
It’d also help if you added things like clothes and environments since they heavily impact composition and can make a simple pose look much less static.
Best practice is copying from shit you like and paying attention to where it draws your eyes. Find a scene from a movie or illustration, do a thumbnail of it with only the major parts, and try to recreate it using different objects. Say, a shot of a person being dwarfed by giant trees. You could replace the trees with giant buildings and use grey colors to create an overwhelming atmosphere. Same composition, different ideas.

>>4413654
>>4413648
Sup.
Thee first thing to point out is that you seem to be thinking in terms of the contours and lines. That's fucking wrong and you need to stop before you obtain the bad habits.

Drawing is about the volumetric 3d shapes. You're not drawing a circle, you're drawing a ball. You're not drawing an oval it's a potato.

And second is get some basics down before getting into drawing people, the people are made outta some complex shapes and you're not up to it yet. Whatever you open Vilppu/Hampton anything they assume you already got through the basics before you even begin with the people.

And if you wan't to learn anything you don't copy, you study.
To make a study you aren't copying line for line, you reverse engineer the constructions with volumetric shapes.

>>4413688
think up new poses, get inspiration from Araki

>>4413731
That's the point of what I'm doing right now.
I'm going to only copy, no construction with 3d forms or anything like that for 7 days and then see if I actually improved.
People were constantly arguing about whether construction is essential for anime or not, so I decided to find out myself since no one had any clear answers or proof.

>>4413730
Thanks for the advice. Do you know of any resources for cinematic movie scenes? I don't watch many movies and I'm wondering if there's some kind of booru for scenes with good composition.

>>4413709
Spitball ideas quckly and roughly, you'll find the one that feels fun.

Maybe you don't want to draw pinup, maybe you want to draw something fun. Likee a girl doing some absolute jackass shit.
>writing WHERE PAPER in bathroom with shit
>shooting heroine in dumpster
>opening a beer with teeth
>kicking the other girl in the cunt as a fun prank
>building a tower out of the chairs when the teacher left

The pinups are fucking boring as FUUUUUCK, and so is all of the coom art, you've seen it all a thousand times beefore.

>>4413738
>so I decided to find out myself
Based, shame that anon you responded to won't post any personal proof so you'll have to find out for yourself still.

>>4413738
Oh i'm gonna tell you what's going to happen.
You WILL actually improve from complete zero to something less bad.
Then you're going to think that that is the right way to go and you're going to get stuck there pretty much forever, unless you manage to unlearn and defeat your previously acquired wrong habits.

I have seen people go there before
Don't belive me? See this.
https://www.deviantart.com/retardedmonk/art/Asuka-and-Mari-Evangelion-668297868
This guy said FUCK FUNDIES AND FUCK YOU I'VE BEEN DOING THIS 7 YEARS ALREADY I'M NOT GONNA START OVER
That was like 3 years ago, well he didn't get a lot better since then.

Same with this guy
https://www.deviantart.com/geistzucker/art/knight-653306904
He said thee fundies were bullshit brainwashing and the cool guys just trace and bash. Turns out you need some skill even to trace well.

Here's your proof.

>>4413745
Oh I just did.

>>4413739
I personally just pause shows I like and quickly sketch scenes out, but after a quick search I found this https://film-grab.com/

>>4413731
>>4413764
pyw :)

>>4413769
anon1:
>posts work
anon2:
>lmao no you're doing it wrong
anon1:
>post your work
....
>anon2 has left the thread

every fucking time.

>>4413764
>posting other people's artwork instead of your own
>spreading misinformation about bad habits and the "right" way
Everyone in this thread do not listen to this guy. He is trying to falseflag and scare you. Do not take his post seriously. He has nothing to back it up. Reminder that fundie tards can not draw anime.

>>4413791
pyw

>>4413559
Thanks for the advice, I'll keep it as simple as possible for now.

What exactly is the difference between Vilppu, Loomis and Hampton?

>>4413807
So minimal that it doesn't even matter.

>>4413807
Different ways to break down drawing the human. Pick one or multiple that you brain understands. Apply the methods as needed.

>>4413769
>>4413791
>>4413800
This is mine.

While I'm not a star, I am younger and better than both of people I posted.
I remember them from some time ago when we were arguing whether the fundies were real. One of them said "I'll find my own way" the other said "this is boomer brainwashing" and tried straight up tracing or photobashing.

I think I win that argumant.

>>4413805
Good luck anon

>>4413807
Loomis is meh. He has written books about everything, but he's not the best at anything.
But only he wrote anything about drawing the face, the others are only about the body.

Vilppu focuses heavily on the gesture and the sketching before construction. So much so that some people even think gestures is all he is about. But he actually goes into the detailed constructions with boxes later.
His drawings are extremely plastic and dynamic.

Hampton skims over the gesture just assuming you know it all already and goes into very detailed and very technical constructions of every meaningful muscule and somee meaningless ones.
His art is extremely detailed and technical.

I would recommend Vilppu first and Hampton second.
Thee gesture is not an alternative to construction but an underlying sketch for it.
First you find the pose and dynamic, then you deevelop the detail on top. Can't go without either of them.

>>4413818
>This is mine.
This.
Fucking captcha ate the pic

>>4413835
>that right buttcheek
>that hand
>that foreshortening
yeah, I think you should actually start practicing what you rant about.

Alright finished it how's the end result?

>>4413835
lmao, now post the other one you tried to color with completely fucked up anatomy

>>4413862
Pretty good, anon.
Plus points for the background.

>>4413862
>actually drawing
>actually finishing something
NGMI

>>4413862
I absolutely love it. Saved.

>>4413862
Damn good job outside of her left hand.

>>4413843
I'm fucking proud of that one.
It's good enough to flex at the 2 days anon and the guys I posted the links to.

Frankly I don't see a better original pic in the entire thread.

And sorry for the attitude, I'm a literal maniac.

>>4413862
Honestly its good. But the coloring comes off as "done by a westerner". Anime rendering is *usually* smoother. It's hard for me to explain because I'm bad at coloring and don't understand it completely.

>>4413877
>I don't see a better original pic in the entire thread.
literally the image above yours

>>4413877
I mean, your drawing looks on par with the retarded monk guy, except for maybe his fucked up faces, but that could partially be a weird stylistic choice. I don't think you're blowing him out of the water.
>there isn't a better original picture in the thread
>>4413862

>>4413878
you're absolutely right I just tried and replicate anime rendering with not much understanding. do you have any sources for getting more animesque rendering.

>>4413862
How does it feel to be the best person in this entire general? Your handling on everything from drawing to colors is so well rounded, you come out on top.

>>4413862
It is a solid OK 6/10 all over.
Not bad honestly.

But what separates it from great is the complete lack of general shading.
She only has occlusion shading in folds and creases but no sense of where the primary light is coming from and no sense of lit vs dark side.
She's in direct sunlight and the sun is a very powerful point light source, she should have strong general contrast.

>>4413883
>your drawing looks on par with the retarded monk guy
You're just saying that to insult me.
His works are either fucked up or obviously traced.
Mine have at least some sense of shape and form.

Unless you're going to say that this >>4413877 is equal to that https://www.deviantart.com/retardedmonk/art/Asuka-and-Mari-Evangelion-668297868

>>4413885
Unfortunately I don't. I mostly watch streams on pixiv to try to understand their process. Also looking at official art/promo art for shows.

>>4413731
>foreshortening is more like doing decent guesses. You need to know how the subject really looks
Once again fundiesfags admit that their system is not based on teachable, repeatable knowledge, but on intuition and mileage, same as copyfags.

is it possible to learn consistent shapes at different angles with no construction lines by studying and deconstructing already finished work then applying that knowledge into my own doing freehand? i fear if i resorted to construction primarily everything i do will look stiff and unnatural. i see professionals not even do construction so i am assuming they just know everything in their muscle memory.

>>4413933
>i see professionals not even do construction

>>4413933
I think the fear that learning or doing certain things will "hurt" you is way overblown.
If the only thing keeping you from trying construction is that it'll make you stiff, then that's dumb. If your drawings are stiff then you work on making them more fluid. Easy. It's not like being exposed to certain cocepts will permanently damage your brain.
Of course, don't expect construction to be a miracle cure either.

>>4413933
Yes, it's called Master Studies.

>>4413936
Yes because he totally constructs his figures using boxes and cilinders lmao

>>4413936
never said all of course people are free to do what they like

>>4413936
I mean, what makes that construction? Is it just because he started with some sort of sketch that was different from the final version? If you're not doing KJG inking from imagination are you using construction? I don't see any boxes or cylinders on that paper, can I use that to argue that he's NOT doing construction?
I think a lot of these debates, like construction vs no construction, come from people talking past each other. There is a spectrum of construction vs no construction and different people imagine different points on the spectrum when they hear the word "construction".

>>4413924
Art is a skill not a knowledge, like a competitive sport.
You can't read a book about boxing and become a boxer. You need to both know and train.

>same as copyfags.
There's a big difference between copying what you can see, and making what you never seen before.

If you want to be able to draw anything as long as you have a stock photo of exactly that then copyfaggotry is all that you need.

>>4413709
Half of them are pretty interesting, so i'm gonna stea... i mean study them. Thank you

>>4413943
>and making what you never seen before.
woah this guy is literally not human.
you can't create something you haven't seen before. everything is derivative.
you don't use construction to create something never seen before, you use construction to correctly draw things you have seen before.
copying is totally valid for studying parts you're not that familiar with.

reeeeeeeee
forgot pic

>>4413945
All yours my friend. I already used the leftmost center one though.

>>4413943
This whole "copyfags only want to be able to copy photos" is just a dumb strawman and not even worth responding to. We copy because we think it will help us draw from imagination.
Anyway unless you can give a more detailed description about how you think fundies/construction should be studied and practiced, like talk about specific exercises and how they apply while drawing, there's not much point in arguing because everyone imagines something different when they hear "fundies" and "construction".

>>4413933
My dudeman, just learn like a normal fucking person ffs. learn to walk before you run.

First people study drawing boxes and cylinders in 2 point perspective. That's boring shit, but they do it for a reason.
Eventually they can just eyeball and freehand that stuff well enough and that's how the cool guys draw, they can eyeball because they did a lot of practice.

THEN you start studying anatomy with Vilppu (he says you need the boxes covered beforehand, not me). And With Vilppu you're doing highly abstract gestures to get the fluid and dynamic for form for your sketshes no details or anatomy, no proportions, just fluid motions and plasticity. And after that you start putting the details and boxes on top of your fluid and dynamic sketches for a complete picture.

Vilppu is fucking great he's all bout not being stiff and constrained.

>>4413956
>We copy because we think it will help us draw from imagination.
If you think that you're fucking naive.

When you copy a flat contour line by line you are only learning to replicate what you see. You don't train your mental rotation or spacial reasoning.
You see a line, you draw a line, the line goes left, your hand goes left. All you learn is hand-eye coordination.

To draw from imagination you need to train your imagination and the aforementioned spacial reasoning.

You learn that by studying what you see shape by shape, not line by line.
A great fucking exercise is to draw a reference SIDEWAY, take a reference image of a girl doing something and construct it from a different angle.
That's a real brain workout.

>>4413969
>you need to train your imagination
Yeah that's why you fucking need to draw from imagination in addition to copying.
Why do we need to spell everything out for you?
>>4392405 read it and tell me where you disagree.

>>4413948
>everything is derivative.
Copyfags can't derive shit, because that requires changing something.

>head doesn't fit the neck
you copied one body, and another head, but you can't changee the neck and shoulders to match,
>character can't fit the scene
You take one ref for the background and another for the pose, but you can't redraw your character from another angle to fit your scene, so it's there awkwardly out of perspective like a cardboard cutout.
>object doesn't fit the character
So you have a ref for a girl and a ref for a gun, but you can't draw the gun so it would fit into her hand, so it's awkwardly out of perspective and doesn't fit onto the scene.

>>4413977
You are so delusional and disconnected from reality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelangelo
>However, he showed no interest in his schooling, preferring to copy paintings from churches
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89douard_Manet
>In his spare time, Manet copied the Old Masters in the Louvre.
Do you really think that copyfags think they can find a reference for everything/photobash everything and don't want to draw from imagination? Where did you get that idea?

>>4413973
We seem to have lost the plot, or you just don't get me.

"Master study" is as old as the art itself. Yes you should study the works of the better artists to learn from them and I do that too.
If you want to draw anime you study the works of anime masters.

The problem is YOU DON'T FUCKING TRACE THEM, you don't copy the flat lines and you aren't drawing by the numbers or a grid.
You are supposed to try and reverse engineer how they drawn their work in thee first place.
Look at the master's work and try and do what they did in the first place.

The master didn't just trace the work of his master, he imagined and constructed that.
So you look at his work and try to construct it as he did.

>>4413984
>YOU DON'T FUCKING TRACE THEM
Not a single fucking person in these threads advocates that.
What is the point of even having a discussion with you people if you're always relying on these insane strawmans?
>he imaged and constructed that
Actually, given the massive numbers of videos out there of pros who either go straight into line drawings, or start with a very loose contour sketch, and almost none who start by drawing cubes and cylinders, isn't it more likely that the pro DIDN'T construct it?

>>4413984
>You are supposed to try and reverse engineer how they drawn their work in thee first place.
Yes, I'm sure every single random ass inbetween animator working at shit-tier studios spent years of their life figuring out how anime is made through exact calculations and meditation.

>>4413987
>>4413984
The big red pill is that construction only becomes useful once you already know how to draw.
Construction is just a way to estimate the placement of things in your scene, you still have to know how to actually draw those things.
Same with anime. you know where the fingers should be on a hand, but you don't know the small nuances that you have to pay attention to so your hands will still look like trash.
You know where to draw the eyes, but you lack the knowledge of how to actually draw good looking eyes, construction won't help you there.
Learn how to draw first, through copying, THEN worry about construction.

>>4413982
>muh impressionism
His art objectively is flat as all fuck, has zero depth and no consistent lighting.
And considering it's late 19th century I bet the works that don't look like shit were traced from the photos.
Kind of like Hitler was tracing the postcards and photos, but had no knowledge of perspective and everything was kinda fucky.

>Michelangelo
He's a genius sculptor who did nothing but work in 3d and hand carving those volumetric shapes out of the stone until he knew them so well he could paint the chapel without any prior painting experience.

He literally knew the 3d shapes so well he went and painted that shit without any practice, he literally wasn't a painter before.

>>4413973
>started at 19
>top shows what he did before his deliberate practice
i feel like i need more clarification. does top mean when he started out at all or was it just after drawing for some time already but before his best working method?

>>4413987
>Not a single fucking person in these threads advocates that.
Wait what?
The entire argument was about the dumb line for line copying here >>4413738 >>4413648
My point is that copying 2d lines bad, copying 3d shapes ok, copying the 3d shapes while changing or turning them is the galaxy brain exercise.
>loose contour sketch, and almost none who start by drawing cubes and cylinders
Because they have mastered that with years of practice and can take off the training wheels. They have all that in their mind already.
If you could that you'd be a master too.
>>4413989
>ass inbetween animator working at shit-tier studios
They aren't masters of shit.
The cover illustrators are.
>>4413990
You got everything backwards. You don't get the style before actually drawing. You construct your fucking sketch first and then finish it on your preferred style, take the picture of AS109 and finish your face in his style, or anybody else's.

The hard part of drawing is to nail the shape and makee it look right, chosing the style is just a cherry on top when you know the rest.

>>4414020
>Because they have mastered that with years of practice and can take off the training wheels. They have all that in their mind already.
There is not a single reason to believe this, besides your dogma that people can only learn to draw with your favorite methods.

>>4414026
Just stop replying to this guy.
Let him fall for the construction meme and realise it himself.
You can't help everyone, some people have to learn the hard way.

>stop posting for a day
>immediate power vaccuum
You people really are goblins

>>4414020
>The entire argument was about the dumb line for line copying here
he literally says those are from imagination.

>>4414031
I don't even want to turn it into an either/or or insult his methods by calling it a meme.
If he wants to draw lots of boxes then that's fine. He can probably make it work for him. I know other people have made it work. I think those methods don't work as well for some people and other methods can work for those people.
I think there's multiple ways to draw and multiple ways to learn how to draw. Some people would prefer to believe there's only one true method though.

>>4414026
>>4414031
Time will tell who fell for the meme and who didn't.

I bet my ass than in two years you're going raise up to the dizzying height of Retardedmonk posting defeated threads about having learned nothing for years and being unable to progress.

Well at least every copy fag I knew ended up like that.

>>4414042
You don't get to act superior while you draw like this >>4413835 and >>4413877
If you told me you did those without any construction, I'd believe you immediately.

>>4414035
What triggered me was this
>>4413738
>'m going to only copy, no construction with 3d forms or anything like that

I just see another Retardedmonk in the making and trying to warn him.

>>4414049
it's always good to try different things.
what works for some people might not work for others.
art isn't an exact science.

>>4414047
I'm not a master, but I don't look bad compared to the rest of you.

YOUR WORK must be so much better than mine considering how belligerent you are, right? Mind showing? Hmmm?

>>4414049
Construct this with 3D forms in a way that isn't conpletely superfluous.

>>4414058
I'm not the one acting superior, deciding what everyone else should do.
And no, I won't post my work because I don't draw anime.

>>4414058
For all your grinding of construction, your art is still garbage and people can only appreciate it in a "oh wow he's learning to draw he's making nice progress" sort of way. :^)

>>4414056
>it's always good to try different things.
Try heroine for a week bro.

My point is
>>4413764
>You WILL actually improve from complete zero to something less bad.
>Then you're going to think that that is the right way to go and you're going to get stuck there pretty much forever, unless you manage to unlearn and defeat your previously acquired wrong habits.

There are WRONG ways of doing things.
If you ever were to a gym you should know there are harmful and dangerous ways to lift.
If you're using the wrong stance you might actually lift more but you're probably fucking up your knees, back and getting a hernia from that.
And when you keep doing that you will end up with crutches rather than the gains you wanted.

>>4414066
>"oh wow he's learning to draw he's making nice progress" sort of way. :^)
unlike yours.

so much arguing, ladies, please settle down

>>4414074
i'm done. it's like talking to a brick wall.
you keep doing what you think is best, i'll keep doing what i think is best.
there.
now never ever reply to me ever again.

>>4414060
You picked a bad image to make your point.

Look at this fucking lizard.
Does it look like a flat muh style symbol scribble to you?
This lizard is solid as fuck.

>>4414074
>There are WRONG ways of doing things.
Not really.
When I was teaching myself to program there were a lot of assholes like you on forums who were obsessed with the "right" way of doing things.
You have to start with the right programming languages, you have to learn the principles of software design before you start coding anything, you have to avoid projects that are too hard for you, you have to stick to one language/system and learn it well, etc.
I basically did the exact opposite of their advice and did whatever I felt like. I gravitated towards languages and projects that were way too hard for me, bounced around tried a bunch of random shit without learning all the principles/theory first, etc. I failed a lot but I also had a hell of a lot of fun. And now I program for a living and make good money from it.
So if the "do what I want" approach worked for coding, why wouldn't it work for art too, which is far LESS structured and more individualistic/intuitive than computer science?

>>4414089
Why don't you construct the image I posted instead of posting a different one?

>>4412637
https://twitter.com/ShahindBarri
Not my real name
I haven't really been practicing for most of these 2.5 years so me not being super pro level isn't a huge surprise desu

>>4414095
>c-construction works guys!
>but only on convenient pictures
How does he not see the irony in his posts

>>4414095
>>4414105
The girl in that picture is a cool symbol drawing done right. Yes you don't construct things like that.

But the lizard thing in that very picture constructed as fuck.

>>4414125
>But the lizard thing in that very picture constructed as fuck.
Do you actually believe that everything that looks 3D is constructed?
Not even making fun of you, genuinely curious about your thought process.

>>4414092
>tried a bunch of random shit without learning all the principles/theory first,

I hope you aren't working on anything that has anything to do with security bro.
Also the coding today is fucked, everybody is like that and the code is getting slower quicker than the processors get faster.

Back in the day the living legends like Carmack who knew the technicalities of compiler the used bit hacking and math tricks to make Quake 3 when that looked just impossible. Today we're having games that leak memory all over the place.

See two examples
>factorio
Done by the cool guys who know what they are doing. It handles hudreds of thousands of active entities with ai.
>rimworld
Done by the hacks who can't code.
It chokes and dies if you have 20 characters, and also seeems to get slower when you play for an hour, so you have to save quit and load again because of some obvious memory leaks.

>>4414153
>Also the coding today is fucked, everybody is like that and the code is getting slower quicker than the processors get faster.
That's not how coding or processors work.

>>4414142
Everything that is complicated.
If you look closely the lizard is fucking ripped, the striped texture outlines some serious muscle, deltoids, biceps triceps, even the facial miscues (looks like he used a tiger as a ref).

How do you think the artist did that? Straight up painted it in with red watercolor like not giving a fuck?

I think the artist actually sketched it's muscles out in pencil, especially the arms, then he wrapped the stripes around the shapes, filled in with red and the erased the pencil. That's how i think that picture was accomplished.

>>4414176
>How do you think the artist did that?
As most pros do.
They do a loose sketch in pencil to, sometimes multiple times with different perspectives to find the best one, then they finish the best one.
That's literally how most pros draw. Even amateurs do it this way.
Construction works, don't get me wrong, but in commercial art, time is money and just loosely sketching is usually faster than constructing with cilinders and boxes.

>>4414153
So do you actually have any skills yourself or are you just obsessed with how everyone else is doing everything is wrong?

>>4414185
Sketching involves construction to some degree, and it's as lose or detailed as it needs to be. If your character is simple and not muscular, you are sketching in only a couple of simple potato shapes to get the foreshortening right. But that is constructive too.

Look at that lizards front and rear legs again.
The front leg is basically a human arm with human muscles and a lot of structure.
I think the artist actually did detail the muscles in his sketch so he could texture the shit out of them.

The back leg and the end of the tail, well whatever, not the focus of the picture, it's good enough, no need to waste time on. But the front arm is fucking serious, and the face, it's a fucking snake tiger with human eyes bro.

>>4413862
blog?

all right, i really fucked this up. how do i fix the eyes to properly show her head is turning?

>>4414340
what

>>4412641
How far are you into Loomis anon? I'm having some trouble with certain plates.

>>4413833
I'm >>4413807
>I would recommend Vilppu first and Hampton second.
Just to be sure: which of their learning/teaching materials should I go with in order? Which books and/or video courses?

How do I get better?

>>4414655
How do I get as good as you?

I'm watching the figure tutorial playlist by this guy https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLd9YlgrhwWqCSiGwPwA_N_nqKfTLY1Kn8

I'm stuck at "drawing ovals" because I can't for the life of me figure out how to draw the first oval in relation to the head i'm trying to copy.
How the fuck do you figure out the proportions of that first base? Do I ignore the hair?

>>4414655
Holy shit do you want to work on a manga together
I'll add u on shitcord if u give me ur username

>>4414661
Draw more

>>4414710
Anon please, thats too much work and Im not even there yet

someone make a new thread

>>4414767
how about YOU make a new thread

>>4414725
wdym you're not there? I mean there's always room for improvement for anyone, but you've definitely learned to "Feel the form" at least
And yeah I guess it is too much work, but if you're ever interested in making manga/comics, I have a small discord for ppl working on that kinda thing if you're interested

>>4414770
I'll make a new if you make one