/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>4385328
Yeah, I use this anatomy hack called proportions. Usually head comparisons because using eye comparisons is whack man. Those artists who do that are insane.

>>4385328
>hey anons are there any hacks to anatomy like how do you make sure that limbs arent longer than the other like legs and arms
Yeah, it's called knowing perspective.

>>4385328
Anatomy hack:
>read Hampton

>>4385334
>>4385336
>>4385340
>>4385340
let me reword it i meant tips like measuring used in the pictures ive read hampton i can draw but limbs feel longer or bigger than the other

>>4385352
Yeah, it's called knowing perspective.
Do you know how to take any box and translate it to any other point in space while keeping it the same size? It's the same with limbs, put a box around a limb, translate it to the other side of the body, now that second box is a framework for keeping the other limb the same size.

>>4385352
>>4385377
Robertson and Marshall give more complete descriptions on how to measure in perspective and how to keep lengths consistent as you move around in space.

>>4385352
Maybe you don't realize the reasoning behind your images is that the elbow is basically a mid point and the arm up to the palm and the arm up to the shoulder are equal in length.

>>4385352
The best hack is to get so good at it that you do it correctly intuitively. Any hack now will only slow you down later.

>>4385377
>>4385380
>>4385340
Fucking pieces of shit te diagrams in those books, ESPECIALLY in Loomis only work for fixed positions and OP is asking for a specific angle. If you can't answer his question then stop pretending you can, fucking useless crabs.

Extremely related pic.

>>4385328
Just draw every part of the body in hundreds of different perspectives until you get it

>>4385403
This guy gets it.

>>4385403
I mean, sure, it will take him 2 months to do that but it will work in the long run

>>4385393
I understand why you have misgivings, because there's really no perspective resource that explains arbitrary rotations well. But perspective measuring tools work for literally any box rotated into any position, not just boring two point perspective boxes that are parallel to the ground. You can go from a flat diagram of an arm to a 3D arm at literally any angle and position you can imagine, using perspective tools. How do you think 3D modeling programs are able to immediately show you an object from any viewpoint? It's all the same principles. You need to put in a little work to figure that out though, at least until someone comes along and writes a better and more practical perspective guide.

I know this thing has shorthands to help with your figure drawing. But the japanese how to books has more

>>4385460
The only way to correctly rotate any part of the body, face included, would be to fucking be a mathematician with an iq of 150 or above to apply Euler transformations and correctly calculate any rotation with vectors or quaternions and consider the literal thousands of variables that come from the motion ranges and volumetric displacement of every muscle when it moves and causes others to move. That, or you can just simply take a photo of yourself in the desired position.

>>4385466
This. Literally just take a photo.

>>4385466
You don't need an IQ of 150 to arbitrarily rotate a box. You don't even need to do any calculations with numbers. The box is good enough for showing the size and orientation of the body part; you can use intuition and judgment to take you the rest of the way and actually fill in the details. Perspective is certainly not a cure-all, it can't replace anatomy or composition or color or good linework, but it does give you a definite repeatable system for arranging and rotating objects in space.
I am working on some diagrams showing how to apply these tools to more complex body parts and I'll post them here when done. For now I'll just point out two things: 1) if you have an arbitrarily tilted rectangle, extend the two sets of edges to find the two vanishing points of the sets, and draw a straight line through them. This is the vanishing line of the rectangle; it won't be the horizon line, it will be tilted at a weird angle. But you can rotate your paper so that new horizon line is just straight across, and now you can use all the nice ground level perspective techniques on this weird tilted plane (and every face of an arbitrarily rotated box is merely a tilted plane). 2) To rotate a plane around an arbitrary point, draw a line between a corner of the plane and that point. This line will be the radius of the circle that that corner of the plane will follow as it rotates around that point. Construct the circle based on that radius and move the point to anywhere you desire on the circle. The perspective guides show you examples of doing this in the nice flat two-point perspective case, but you can rotate your point and do it in an arbitrary plane.
I think those are all the puzzle pieces you need to see that you can arbitrarily rotate and position boxes in space. It's pretty cumbersome to have to do all that work for a whole body, but it does give you more freedom to construct things if you can't find an exact reference.

heres another example this time the person uses a circle to accurately place the arms hands

>>4385500
Yeah. Thanks for paraphrasing shit that can be googled in 30 seconds. The Dunning-Kruger is strong in you

>>4385694
You're trolling don't ya?

>>4385807
>can be googled in 30 seconds
No it can't. If you can find a guide that explains how to arbitrarily rotate a cube in perspective (arbitrary meaning 3 point perspective basically) then please let me know, because it would save me the trouble of having to write one. Erik Olson's very last perspective video is about rotating cubes but it's very short and doesn't cover rotating around an arbitrary axis, he just picks one axis and does one example. Besides that, this information is literally not written down anywhere as far as I can tell.

>>4385500
does pic related illustrate what you are talking about?

>>4385328
F E E L
T
H
E
F O R M

>>4386377
Yes, it does.
Fuck that's way simpler than I thought it had to be. Thank you for educating me. I was trying to find the orthogonal that went straight through the center of the ellipse, but that's obviously just parallel to the tangent. In my defense I have never seen that "draw a tangent to the arc of rotation" idea explained anywhere else.
I guess I am a dunning krueger.

>>4385427
> thinks 2 months is too long to master anatomy

Oh anon, you're in for a surprise.

>>4385328
I mean this very seriously. Just learn the fundamentals. Learn anatomy. Hacks will absolutely obliterate your potential. Learning anatomy only takes 1-2 months and you will forever be glad you did it.

>>4386847
>only takes 1-2 months
pyw after 2 months

>>4386847
1-2 months of what?
Practicing 10 hours a day? 5 a day? 1 a day? 2 a week?

>>4385694
hmmm where have I seen this before

>>4387675
Based loomis

>>4386847
>Just learn the fundamentals
I hate this word so much. "Fundamentals". It's more often than not used as a buzzword by people who either don't know shit or aren't interested in helping in the first place. This isn't twitter with its 280 character per post restriction.

>>4387675
yes OP here this is exactly what im talking about

>>4387689
Okay, lets see you explain "Fundamentals" in 280+ characters then.

>>4387731
http://www.alexhays.com/loomis/
Go read a book

>>4385339
>>4385328
>>4385332
these "hacks" are literally made by hacks

As soon as you want to draw something that veers off slightly off the precise angle indicated by these "anatomy hacks" you are going to fall apart and spend 3 hours browsing r*ddit and tum*lr looking for these retarded anatomy hack cheat sheets again.

>>4385694
and that nigga da vinci

>>4385332
>>4385328
>>4385339
>>4385694
Hey guys is it bad to use these

>>4391693
Yes to all except for the last one.

>>4385393
Who here /sketch/

>>4385332
Wow, now this guy is a real hacker, I know him by the looks of things.

Ultimate anatomy hack: Perfect anatomy is a meme.

What matters: Symmetry, being 80-90% correct in your proportions, form and foreshortening.

If you add or subtract a few inches from any given appendage it isn't going to make or break a drawing, especially if you're drawing a dynamic figure where foreshortening and form occlusion is at play. If you're drawing a person in a T-pose or the Vitruvian man then sure, take some extra time to nail anatomy. But in practice, hitting your landmarks, and using rules of thumb are what ultimately matter. Even master gesture and figure artists agree that exact proportions are moot. All that matters is if it looks correct, and there's a lot more flexibility than people realize. Vertical symmetry is really key.

Just understand how the parts of the body compare to each other, and that's good enough. The shoulder to the elbow is the same as the distance from the collar bone to the belly button. The thigh is about the same length as the torso. The hand is 2/3 the length of the forearm. Etc. etc.

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