/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

not usually no, odd

>>4323206

They don't get to call things kitsch. If anything, those bottles in the picture that people go to for general get-together painting parties are kitsch.

>>4323206
those moms are all pro art veterans and they were telling you to drop the construction work and enjoy the feel of drawing with no knowledge

>>4323206
>Kitch
I'd feel flattered.
If it looks kitch means im halfway to being a master, fake it until you make it.

>>4323206
calling “realist” art, and particularly the atelier-tier realism was widely dismissed in the (((art world))) at kitsch. It got to the point where Odd Nerdrum self proclaimed his work as new genre called “Kitsch”.
My guess is the woman has no idea what actual kitsch is. When she started seeing the atelier books in her local book store and realized she’d never get that gud she googled it and found the articles calling it kitsch and she embraces it yo make herself feel better.

>>4323206
It is kitsch, its a sandbox "ready-made, easy, minimal creativity" way of doing things.
But I would add that doing Kitsch has its benefits.
The most enjoyment I get is when I do abstract art with a hard emphasis on not repeating myself. And no one gives a fuck about it. Effort does not equal reward. And that is fine.
Art is a pure thing, which is highly "inner circle-ish", meaning that most people will have no clue in what you are doing or saying.
Just my 2 cents, dont get mad if you are doing kitsch, it has its good and bad like everything else.

>>4323206 (OP)
The contemporary “Realist” art resurgence, particularly atelier-tier realism has been widely dismissed by the (((art world))) at kitsch. It got to the point where Odd Nerdrum self proclaimed his work as new genre called “Kitsch”.
My guess is the woman has no idea what actual kitsch is. When she started seeing the atelier books in her local book store and realized she’d never get that gud she googled it and found the articles calling it kitsch and she embraces it yo make herself feel better.

>>4323232
You dont have to subscribe to Loomis fundementals to "git gud". Please,
there are alot of different ways of expression.
Loomis is North American school, and is mostly respected there. (Not saying that it isnt respected at all anywhere else.)

>>4323229

Kitsch in this context generally refers to excessive sentimentality on one hand and/or “popular” rather than “sophisticated” sensibilities. When done “knowingly” and/or “ironically” it is basically the same as “camp”.
It can be very very well executed, have taken much effort and study and can even have involved deeply considered and hard won meaning or message. It mostly just depends on what the (((art world))) considers “profound”. For some, symbolism, mythology, history, traditions or standards of beauty and so on are profound and to others they might be seen as cliche, “meme-tier” and so on.
At the end of the day it’s a judgement and an insult - usually from people who don’t possess the skills they are denigrating (whether they want them or not).

>>4323221

This, probably the idea there was to ''let it flow'' and OP was doing measurings and shit like that.

>>4323234
I don’t think the woman who called OP’s work kitsch knew who loomis was or could distinguish it from any other representative/constructive figurative work. If OP was doing “sight-size”, Reilly, Russian or any other method of getting consistent “accurate” results for whatever purpose, she would have likely called it kitsch.

>>4323250
Thats what Im saying also. The look, is the problem, not the brand "Loomis".
Its a sandbox thing, you are doing a thing in a particular way, and sticking to it as gospel.
NA children who do art should take a chillpill on Loomis and Hentai/Anime, imho. But there is a market for it, so its nurtured. (almost everything abstract is regarded as shit, with this market based phylosophy)

>>4323250
we dont know if the mommies had a classical background, all we know is that they were doing abstract art in that given moment, even OP was new to that envoronment.

>>4323244
Mommie said "it looks a bit Kitsch".
With a meaning to downgrade its "low" creativity nature.
You are overthinking it.

>>4323264
I don’t know anyone who “sticks to it as gospel” and I don’t know a teacher who presents it as such.
One of the main reason such methods are taught - were ever taught - was for the ability to work consistently and effectively, for professional artists who were on the clock and needed to understand their subjects to a degree that made them specialists and authoritative. Until abstract art came along, art was it. No tv, no movies, no photographs, no real free press. It was for posterity, tribute, propaganda and education. Not really connected to self expression or originality. Or at least thats not why anatomy/proportions/likeness was taught.
Everyone can spot a bad, ignorant, or flawed beg-tier drawing and almost no one genuinely prefers it or wants it. You cant conceal it with abstraction or creativity. If any attempt is made at reasonably realistic representation, areas where ignorance and lack of skill are readily apparent.

>>4323276
Well, if they had a classical background they wouldn't have called it kitsch.

>>4323278
No, I know how the word entered the art lexicon and how often it gets applied to modern atelier-type stuff by the (((art world))) and how easiky you stumble into it online when you start to google that kind of art.
Im not over thinking - I’m “just sayin’”.

>>4323289
>One of the main reason such methods are taught - were ever taught - was for the ability to work consistently and effectively, for professional artists who were on the clock and needed to understand their subjects to a degree that made them specialists and authoritative.
I wholeheartedly agree with you.
The skill ceiling can go high, but it is "low" creativity. It is what it is, i dont hate on people who subscribe to such methods. But I do dunk on people who dont understand abstract expression, and think that there is for shitters (those mommies doing weekend art are probably shitters anyways)

>>4323295
Okay, lets agree to disagree anon.

>>4323292
All of my drawing professors at Academia regard such methods as western Kitsch.
They would reffer to the Masters, which all had their own way of doing things.

>>4323299
I’m not trying to be argumentative but by that logic creativity without skill is “low-skill”. It may or may not be a meaningful categorization.
Without a particular intent It’s not “low” anything - unless it doesn't even achieve what it intends to. Thats easy to spot. High Craftsmanship can involve aesthetics and judgement and tradition and emotion every bit as much as what someone else means by “creativity” but may not be recognized as “creative” by someone who likes, I dunno, zippy colors or dramatic “movement” or something.

All this is really to say that when something gets called kitsch by the (((art world))) it’s not generally because it isnt “creative”. It’s because it’s considered tacky, lowbrow and sentimental. (Usually by complete assholes).

>>4323313
exactly, creativity without skill is low skill, its fine.
These things like thriving for skillfull work or complete expression are all guided by our obsessions and personalities.

here's a drawing I did at figure drawing this month and everyone loved it, and it was pretty much the same crowd. Howsabout you post what YOU drew, and I'll tell you whether or not you're this amazing fundamentals master or you're just as hobbyist and amateur as these people at the figure drawing session you hate so much

So am I the only one who had to google what kitsch meant?

>>4323313
also, creativity is a deep subject and you are not getting to the bottom of it here.

>>4323309
>(((Academia)))

They cant draw. When these (((academics))) actually can draw they dont hide it because kitsch.
The old masters taught their students in their workshops with tracing, copying, templates and so on. Any mere novelty or secret method was a matter of competitiveness during an era when they were still trying to figure stuff out.
But the artists worked in competing institutions - workshops, guilds, church-patronage, later came schools and so on. Methods were practiced and taught. Believe it.

>>4323320
This is as Kitsch as it gets, with the bold outlines which DO not exist in real life.
If you did this at drawing class here, the profs would tell you to stop making shit up just because it looks "modern" and designed.
That is, if it was from a live model. If not, who gives a fuck.

>>4323313
Right, but as I said:
>It may or may not be a meaningful categorization.

>>4323326
Post your work krab

>>4323320
>and everyone loved it

hahaha brian youre so shit you impress normies and it boosts your ego 400%, this is why you're still Illustrat tier after 3 years

>>4323322
So is craftsmanship and traditional aesthetics - and you are not getting to the bottom of it here.
The two actually meet up and overlap in the deep end. If we followed it all the way to its logical end we’d probably end up agreeing.

>>4323329
You are better at loomis than me, thats because
i do not do loomis, or whatever else guys method.

>>4323333
You dont have to reply in "my words",
its highly "uncreative" :)
Jk

>>4323320
Yeah, no offense bro but what up with the outline?
(Its otherwise a solid effort, not dissing, just wondering).

>>4323250
/beg/ here, what is the "russian" method? That sounds like ultimate no fun grind to git gud approach...
I want to take the slav pill, please!

>>4323344
https://www.amazon.ca/Fundamentals-Drawing-English-Vladimir-Mogilevtsev/dp/590495705X/ref=pd_sim_14_3/143-0330711-5855410?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=590495705X&pd_rd_r=fe9f4cae-7017-4653-9685-90144c50a298&pd_rd_w=uzDIB&pd_rd_wg=tuGVP&pf_rd_p=d590f9b4-a201-4571-ac63-54b38bb61c5b&pf_rd_r=0BDZJ6WP7BP4A3V21CZW&psc=1&refRID=0BDZJ6WP7BP4A3V21CZW

Its Russias academic art tradition. Uses more construction than Western European meghods. They now have a course in it at NMA but I obsessed over it for years trying to find clear, often old soviet-era manuals on VK and shit.

>>4323356
Neat! I will look into this. Thank you.

>>4323206
Don’t let those modern art whores discourage you from learning to apply actual methods of accurate drawing, and don’t let any pantywaist faggots in this thread discourage you either.

>>4323379
good one, you forgot to add in, democracy, freedom and USA.

>>4323387
Lol, sorry commie reality is empirical.

>>4323206
Lol study some philosophy and really dig into the ideas behind modernism, and how they affected the arts in the 20th century then talk to her. I mean show her how fucking dumb she really is.

Sounds like a severe case of sour grapes. Theyare stay athome moms for a reason.

>>4323396
if he actually studied phylosophy he would grow as a person and not revert intohimself after such constructive criticism, and then go home and post on 4chan. he would prob start banging all those pent up milfs at art class.

>>4323206
I’m gonna really need you to pyw before I can tell you if they’re wrong or not. also this story is probably made up

>do normal people think that the whole loomis/watts/proko style looks kitsch? I've never heard anyone call it that

Yes in the case of Proko.

>>4323206
Look at that guy’s smug face. You know he doesn’t give a shit about painting bottles and he’s just there for prime bored milf vagene

>>4323206
Loomis? Oh my gaawwd... Sooo passé...

>>4323326
>This is as Kitsch as it gets, with the bold outlines which DO not exist in real life.
>outlines which DO not exist in real life
Must be hard to have such small brain and having to shitpost

This is by Sargent btw, prob someone should tell that idiot to stop using outlines when its appropriate since they dont exist, duh

>>4323320

Do a flip, Brian

>>4323679
You took the outline idea and overused it without any thought behind what you’re doing...

>>4323679
>drawing from a live model in drawing class
>bold outlines up the ass
Good on you Anon, Sargent was an original.
Ill give you an ironman to your weak little argument, you can even go back to the 1600s and study the ACTUAL masters like Rembrandt,
who was skilled and highly creative, he also drew lines which were not "there" in real life, but every single line in his drawings is a catalyst for bringing out the character of a person or animal.

Anon is an phylosophycal infant trying to make things klitsche pretty instead of learning how to actually draw in school.

>>4323763
>every good artist uses outlines
>every good artist is good and smart
>brian uses outlines
>brian is not good and not smart
????????

>>4323763
>but every single line in his drawings is a catalyst for bringing out the character of a person or animal.
and what is it when brian does it?

>>4323771
Brian is shit actually
but he can loomis

>>4323773
How the fuck is this shit bringing out anything to the character?
He is actually destroying the persons Emotions, Intentions, Character by sticking to this kliche wayof drawing.
What the fuck is the models face even saying to you? The shadows are HORRIBLE, the drapery is SHIT, no feel for texture.
Should I go on?

>>4323773
his legs are distorted becoming too big at the bottom. Who knows, maybe anon in his head thought he was doing a good job at linear perspective.
Shit proportions, but at least he did it in a eye catchy way.

>>4323782
Crab pyw

>>4323789
Stay bad Anon.
This drawing of an animal, that Rembrandt probably farted out in 1 minute, has more character in it than your whole Loomis grinding portfolio.

>>4323794
IMAGINE your only argument against Brian being "Rembrandt was better". Stay mad crab.

>>4323799
No, my argument with Rembrandt was a compliment to your argument that Sargent did it better.
They both did what Anon will never be able to do.
To learn how to draw lines with purpose.
Get rekt

>>4323799
Also, imagine being so weak minded, that you have to stick to premade style or way of doing things so you dont feel clueless and start actually finding answers to problems, and getting somewhere thats original.

>>4323799
not that guy but youre a fucking /beg/ brian. using paint doesnt make you less shit. keep rendering tits until you fade further into obscurity, its been years lmao

Maybe you don't understand as much as you think.

>>4323802
>>4323808
>>4323810
lul

>>4323820
this is supposed to impress someone?

>>4323821
the point of art isn't to impress people

>>4323705
>>4323763

that wasn't your point you fucking smooth slow brain retarded motherfucker. Your point was don't use lines because they don't exist, not because he's doing it wrong.

>>4323705
>>4323763

that wasn't your point you fucking smooth slow brain retarded motherfucker. Your point was don't use lines because they don't exist, not because he's doing it wrong. Brush strokes don't exist in real life either so maybe we should abandon painterly style and artistic expression you absolute dickface parrot.

>>4323206
I don't think they know the meaning of the word.

>>4323326
>bold outlines which DO not exist in real life

This... This is it.

The stupidest possible objection I've ever seen on this board. This is peak /ic/.

Hey, Anon. Did you know that almost no outlines exist in real life? That they're just a way of representing the way our brain separates different objects and planes from each other?

Thin lines are just as much of a lie as thick ones. If you approve of thin lines and object to thick ones you're merely a hypocrite. If you don't realize they're all the same lie, then you're an idiot.

If your objection was that it's bad stylization, that'd be one thing, but objecting that they don't exist IRL is beyond imbecilic.

>>4323763

>No no, what I really meant was that the lines were poorly chosen, not that they're not there IRL!

That's some Grade A backpedaling, Anon.

These women are already better than /ic/.
Why? Well, they're not hiding their work. Instead they band together as a huge golem of crabs that smell like raisins.

Good for them!

>>4323321
I had to Google it last time this thread came up

>>4323771
every OP is a fag but not every fag is an OP

>>4323244
this is how i interpret the word too, which makes it seem odd in this context regardless of how you take it. like thomas kincade or something.

OP your art is probably just bad

This is quite possibly the worst thread on /ic/ rn

>>4323932

>>4323206
This smug son of a bitch know exactly what he is doing.

>>4323206

>>4323206
Do you know for sure that you are going to Heaven if you were to die tonight anon?

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

>>4323932
the point was exactly that he was doing it wrong and he is making shit up.
It took you a good nights sleep to respond Anon.

>>4324237
What if I'm not baptized though?

You know how kids complain that art teachers hate them drawing anime? The idea is to not be boxed in to one style/method of making things. Prove to that group you can go for whatever you want and make it look good still.

>>4323679
>y some philosophy and really dig into the ideas behind moder
If you can't see the line width variations, and light/shadow play, I feel sorry for you
>>4323320
Can't hold a candle to sargent also, by making the ouline way darker than his cast shadows, it just becomes cartoony

>>4323820
To be honest, this is kinda kitschy

>>4323295
stfu you fucking moron you have no fucking idea what you are talking about. go the fuck to school or get a fucking job

>>4324237
you need to start taking your meds pal

>>4323339
not that anon, but I quite like the outline. reminds me of mucha.

According to the “in“ art crowd, this is kitch

<———————————————

>>4323206
>listening to women

>>4327641
>jews hate beauty
What else is new?

>>4323679
Not everything someone drew was supposed to be seen by the world, this was probably him skipping corners in a sketch he got sick of. If you look at his more rendered work and paintings, lines are rare to spot. When an artist uses lines to convey form in a realistic piece, it is lazy and unprofessional. There are no lines in real life, just contrast.

I don't understand what is kitsch? I look up definitions and now I'm even more confused. Can someone please help?

>>4327782
and you wonder why you dont fuck

>>4323232
best take ITT

>>4327809
It's like saying someone is a hack, Kitsch is the art that hacks make. It's made for wide audience appeal and it's shallow, and it relies heavily on things the viewer already seen. Pretty people pretty places, beautiful things because they are beautiful

brehs is this kitsch?

>>4323480
This was so fucking funny. Gurney shits out wonderful little painting
>welp, time to go. Hows yours proko?

>um. I made the shadow have cool colors

>>4327898
>Blurry background
>Lazily painted chairs
>Weird ground
Yes.

>>4327950
his watercolors sell for several grand

>>4327864
Are you calling elvgren kitsch? He basically defined pin-up girls. Sure, copying his style now in 2020 would be considered kitsch because his work is so recognizable and everyone has integrated a bit of his work into pretty girl illustrations (same as he did, taking from gibson girls).
But his actual original work is fantastic and he is obviously a technical and design master to back up his basically 1940 coomer art.

>>4323206
>>4327641
i can see how it could be considered that way. Throwing a photorealistic figure into a painting doesn't make it any more or less meaningful or pleasing to look at, in fact it can be distracting and kind of obnoxious. You could compare it to music, being good at an instrument doesn't really have much to do with your ability to write a good song. Figures in paintings may as well be the equivalent of an extended solo, impressive and nice when appropriate, but they need something more for the song to be considered great, and not always necessary.

Thats not to say technical skill isnt worth pursuing, i just think that it by itself doesn't make a good picture

>>4327809
Kitsch means "I hate this thing emotionally but I know it's objectively good and I have no logical resource to criticize it".

It's just stuff that's aesthetically fine but doesn't conform to the current narrative.

>>4328322
I get what you are saying by that but my example pretty much completely defies what you are saying.
And I also see that the current atelier system does produce copy drones that seem afraid to color outside of the lines. But to be fair, those who study at an atelier need time to develop a style after the 4 years or so of school. Great foundation technically but a definite lack of originality. But that isn’t what is learned there. Just method. Also to be fair, that whole system is predicated on the view of painting being a trade that did mostly what we have cameras for today.
But contemporary “art” has thrown the baby out with the bath water. I believe we are on the cusp of, not a merging of the two, but learning from and sharpening one another. Exciting!