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/ic/ - Artwork/Critique


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4321128 No.4321128 [Reply] [Original]

It really bugs me how most artists here dream of being a freelance illustrator going from gig to gig, or just working in the industry at a studio or something when thats not really their dream.

>childhood dreams of creating your own stuff wether it be manga, anime, or games

>gets into art.

>gets good enough to charge

>Spends a year or two drawing random orcs or knights so you can get fantasy work or attract your favorite studio.

Now you have a portfolio of images that only do one thing for you business wise: sit on a host site for some random art direct to probably see it to offer you one of the handful of jobs available.

Meanwhile you could’ve spent a better use of your time just working on your project building a fan base and not putting your eggs in one basket. Have your personal project work as a portfolio while trying to monetize it and growing a fan base with normies.

90% of artist would rather just have fans support them living, Than slaving away at another derivative project.


I guess what I’m trying to say is that i see so many artists falling in the trap of drawing one dragon illustration after another to appease a specific art director for a shitty job that pays out $1k max, instead of casting a wider net to a normie audience and build something thats long lasting.

Jus think about it the digital art industry has greenhorns fooled. There’s absolutely no job security, youre competing with chinese art gods for like the 60 max AAA jobs open in a year, pretty much any artist on art station can deliver on any job posted on the site. It all comes down to the taste of the AD.

Attracting normies just make more sense. They arnt as critical of your art skill. All you have to do is make something funny or entertaining on some level. Any art station artist could start a comic on webtoons right now and get views on skill alone.

Tons of artists just have tunnel vision and wont accept this. Thoughts?

>> No.4321132

>>4321128
And this is why porn artists are number one

>> No.4321151

>>4321132
Even still.

Imagine being 16 or 18 or even 20 and just starting off on your own stuff from the start while improving your skills. (Lets use a comic for example)

By the time youre 25 you’ve practiced writing, actually putting out a comic, promoting it, building a fanbase over years... Thats literally invaluable..

This is how most japanese manga artists start off.

Imagine if akira toriyama today tried to become a trendy concept artist instead of just jumping into dr slump.

He’d get absolutely recked for his anatomy and rendering until he became just another photo bashing boring concept artists making forgettable derivative interactions of a post-apocalyptic robot dude inspired by the same 3 movies every other artist is inspired by...

The state of this shit in the industry really just makes me mad. Were going to look back on this shit how people now look back on 90’s comics

>> No.4321161
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4321161

>>4321128
>>4321151
Most people here don't really care about being concept artists tho, they all try to draw anime pin ups or be general illustrators

Concept art /ic/ was like a decade ago, times have changed

>> No.4321163

>>4321128
It's not wasting time if you're having fun

>> No.4321165

>>4321128
how's pandering to normies is better than pandering to ADs? You'll end up in same trap with fanart or porn instead of photobashed conceptart

>> No.4321169

>>4321151
>He’d get absolutely recked for his anatomy and rendering
No, he wouldn't. It's literal stylization. Doesn't matter how anatomically accurate something is if it's aesthetically appealing. Unless you're talking about /ic/'s worthless """critiques""". These faggots shit on literally everything.

>> No.4321172

>>4321151
Most people aren’t savants with dual
Talents so balancing good art with a compelling narrative isn’t really within the realm of possibilities. Fuck, balancing the different aspects of drawing and painting is already enough of a feat, it just isn’t valued under capitalism unless it hits the right niche for consoomers and coomers

Nobody ever wants to admit the failure of the prevailing economic system though, so here we illustrators are in a world of ceaseless pain I guess. Thanks Reagan???

>> No.4321185
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4321185

>>4321169
>Falling for the "muh style" meme

>> No.4321206

>>4321165
Theres a difference between
>making porn for a quick patreon buck
>making empty concept art for low tier $1k jobs that take a month to complete

And actually making something you love, putting it out there and finding People who love the same thing you do.

Its possibly a longer game but makes more sense.
Youre not pandering if you make the thing you like first and let it find its audience. It goes from artist serving a niche. To artist creating his niche and people possibly paying him for it.

And why does everyone here think the only other possibe lane for artist is hentai?

>> No.4321209

>>4321172

If you can create enough character backstory for one image, you can flesh it out, do a couple more, and put these characters in an interesting scenario... thats a story.. Most people just sell themselves short.

Half the commissions or projects you’d work on as a freelancer ar just half baked ideas by some joe blow with a day job.
Your job is literally turning your imagination into reality and youre saying some dude who puts in a fraction of the work you do thinking up things can make a better story than you...

>> No.4321212

>>4321163
If fun is the goal then yeah.

This is more of a discussion for professionals who are having fun

>> No.4321213

>>4321128
freelancing is a pragmatic goal and a way to realistically develop your skills and make a living at the same time which is important b/c most people who come here are starting to learn art as adults and don't have the luxury to spend all day working on something that isn't gonna feed them. there's also absolutely nothing wrong with just wanting to have a cool job you enjoy, that's like telling an engineer with a cushy faang gig that they're wasting their time because they didn't invent the next lightbulb.

the real answer is that what you should be doing is creating your ip and using it as a portfolio that works for both clients and audiences.

>> No.4321231

>>4321213
Solid point, but i see more often freelancers jumping on the personal project train because thats originally what they set out to do. I rarely meet an artist who has no dreams of ever making something they can call their own.
And when it comes to freelancing my biggest gripe isnt the making money part, but getting freelance work from a portfolio that only serves that purpose. I guess you can say some artists are ok with this but it just comes of as short sighted.
>here’s 3 cyber punk guys to show i can do sci-fi stuff
>here’s 3 warlocks for the fantasy jobs
> let me continue to add and update these empty characters to my portfolio so i can eventually work on my own stuff

>> No.4321248

>>4321185
Yes, it is sad that you fell for the "muh style" meme.

>> No.4321261

Spot on OP. DESU I think a lot of posters here are visualizationlets and can't conceive of characters or scenarios besides sexy necromancers or shit they've seen in their gay ass hentai.

>> No.4321267

>>4321128
Probably. Not going to make it anyways. Lack the effort and motivation. But I like to think about if I did right? Good feels. I could brag all the time here if I did.

>> No.4321456

>>4321128
>implying the only freelance gigs you can get as an illustrator is drawing fantasy shit
>implying more than 1/100,000 artists can make ANY money out of Patreon
OP i suggest that instead of giving out shit advice to people, you try and take it yourself. Fans don't pay you for nothing. To some Patreon is a full-time activity and instead of drawing "what they want", they still have to cater to their normie public or risk losing patrons.

>> No.4321534

concept art is nasty and I don't want to do anything like that. it's for soulless asian men

>> No.4321551

>>4321128
Problem is, while I like drawing, I have never had any big dream project that I've always wanted to do.

>> No.4321556

>>4321128
>>4321151
OP, thanks for reminding me what I was in for. I was considering giving up writing and comics and just focusing all my efforts on painting to take the easy way out. Balancing my studies between writing and drawing made me feel like I was learning so slowly, but I'll keep on going. I'll have a successful webcomic someday.

>> No.4321557
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4321557

>>4321128
2 major holes in this post:

First one is that OP is - for some bizarre reason - assuming you can't do both. OP thinks you can't work towards a freelance career while simultaneously working on your own personal projects and/or developing other income streams from your monetized art.

Second one is that OP seems to thing that the "digital art industry" is an actual industry in itself (it's not) - one that seems to exclusively revolve around "dragons" or "random orcs or knights", while "competing with chinese art gods for like the 60 max AAA jobs open in a year".

Make no mistake - OP is a moron.

>> No.4321574

>>4321172
Art has always been a consumer product and you need to get that fact into your smooth brains. Art has never been valued for it's own sake divorced from subject matter. Even gesture drawings and highly rendered cast studies are only valued by a specific consumer niche - aspiring artists. The vast majority of artists only ever make art for a single consumer - themselves alone.

>> No.4321962

>>4321456
Doubt you’ve actually worked in this field since you assume fantasy is just dragons when it also includes sci-fi.

90% of the jobs you will find in this specific line of work are fantasy wether it be dragons, robots, or children’s books. The other 10% are editorial, portraits and pet drawings. Just lol.

And why do you think I would give out advice I’m not seeing results from myself? Wtf is this assumption? Are you a kid?

And I highly doubt theres even 100,000 digital illustrators on patreon... what a ridiculous statement to claim that 1/100,000 artists make a living on that platform..

Its this type of defeatist attitude that I hate about the art community. Mostly shut-ins who just want to render all day and night and never even entertain the idea of treating this like an actual business. “Whats the point of making a patreon.. Even if you do find an audience to pay you for exactly what you want to draw you still have to deliver on time like this is a job or something”. Got some bad news man this is a job.

You have to be a kid or something or really young.

>> No.4321976

>>4321128
Based as fuck, never forget your dream, never forget your drive
>>4321556
Based, godspeed

>> No.4321983

>>4321574
Not sure who this is directed towards but I agree with you.

“Art has never been valued for its own sake divorced from subject matter”

Thats exactly what I’m getting at with these empty drawings most illustrators make that only serve the purpose of showing off their technical skill. That type of art is only appreciated by artists. A very fickle group and a group who will compare you to the absolute best in the industry (the chinese art gods). A group that also isnt as lucrative in terms of buying your products unless youre some proven AAA game artists pumping out gum road educational content..

The other route. Making a consumer product.. WITH CONTEXT i.e. A STORY PACKAGED IN A GAME, A COMIC, or ANIMATION. Adding some narrative to those pretty pictures so you can reach out to normal non-artist people who need more than a perfectly rendered foot to open their wallet..

But i feel like I’m talking to a wall here. Keep pursuing technical excellence. Every piece just being 60 hrs of labor for an AD to tear apart before you move onto the new and improved version

>> No.4321992

>>4321557

First point. That the whole point behind this most... Most artists ARNT doing both.. just lol

Second point i dont even know what youre on about here. Every thing i said was facts. For you to pretend this community were apart of isnt almost exclusively dragons, orcs, and post-apocalyptic robots is legit ridiculous

>> No.4321994

>>4321556
No problem man. The skillset youre building now has a way better ROI than just drawing alone. Youre not just an art printer, you can make the stories and launch the crowd funding campaigns. Its all about having as much control over your business as you can

>> No.4322261

>>4321128
>$1k max
this hurts to read when the average wage in your country is 500$
but in general i agree and i thought its a common sense for someone using 4chan
when i'll be confident enough i'll draw the most popular normie/weeb shit i can imagine and spam it anywhere i can

>> No.4322353

>>4321962
No, I'm an actual illustrator with a business, who's in it for real money and not funny little com coms on Twitter. It takes years or one extremely lucky strike to become successful on Patreon, otherwise everyone would be doing it. You don't know anything about the creative industry, just gtfo

>> No.4322647

>>4322353
This reply of absolute statements actually make you come off even more as a kid.

It takes years?
Y-y-y-you mean like art takes years? thats my point. Start now

“An extremely luck strike”
So youre saying a patreon which is basically just a subscription service for fans of your art to support you is all dependent on a one time event.

A CONTINUOUS monthly service with no experation date, where at any time, a follower or yours can go throw you a bone, is dependent on some huge event where you get 5000 subs in a month...

If you run an actual business man idk what to tell you.

>> No.4322653

>>4322261
Average wage in america is $90k USD
But i think for non middle class its around $40k

The fact that artists are doing these $1k trading card illustration and they have to pay inurnment and taxes out of it is literal poverty

>> No.4322654
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4322654

>>4321574
You’re right anon, we should never aspire to make circumstances better for future generations, ever
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalist_realism

>> No.4322656

>>4322654
Wait, much that Wiki article doesn’t support my argument at all, ignore everything but the Mark Fisher definition

>> No.4322673

>>4321128
>while trying to monetize it
doesnt work. nobody wants to pay for what they can already see for free, and nobody wants to pay for something they cant see at all.

>> No.4322687

>>4321128
Here's the real tea:
>get a degree in a practical field of your choice
>acquire normie job after graduation
>draw whatever the fuck you want when you're not working without having to worry about how monetize-able it is
>if your project ends up making you money, it's just a cherry on top
>if your project somehow gets really popular, consider retiring from your day job early once your finances are in a good place

Any other path is suicide both for your mental health, bank account, and passion for art.

>> No.4322688
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4322688

>>4321128
#1. Close /ic/ and never return
#2. Do what you want, people who make art business are not artists
#3. Make things if you want, improve if you want, it's all up to your desire not anyone elses words

>> No.4322717

>>4321128
this is assuming you actually dont wanna do dragon illustrations as your job, which I would love

>> No.4323079

>>4322687
I’d say this but with one modification: work part time. I switched over to part time work that pays pretty decently (teaching) so I can cover all my expenses, save up money, and have an extra 20 hours a week for drawing.

You have to cut back on expenses a bit but it should be extremely doable if you're single.

>> No.4323180

>>4322647
I've been making art professionally for years, actually got a degree in it and no I don't make $1K a month nor draw shitty card games that no one will ever buy. Having 4-5 trusted, regular clients is a far more sustainable strategy than even a 1000 Patreons. Believe it or not, not everyone wants to make a living out of $5 handouts from strangers.

Relying on just one website for all of your income is also a shitty idea. One youtuber recently doxxed someone on Twitter by accident, deleted post instantly but Patreon still banned him, taking away his main source of revenue. When you're famous people will scrutinize everything you post and one mishap is enough to cancel you forever.

>> No.4323218
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4323218

>>4321992
>>4322647
You have a fierce case of /ic/ tunnel vision. You've just equated the entire "digital art industry" with the things that are posted on /ic/. You've spent too long on /ic/ to where you think ALL digital art revolves around these niche /ic/ topics. An again - there isn't even a "digital art industry". The amount of stuff that falls under the umbrella of digital art is much, much larger than you think it is - even when just considering illustration.


For anyone whose not OP - listen to >>4321557 >>4322353 >>4323180 . I myself dip my toes into freelance projects, running an online store to sell merch to fans, and collecting passive income from past client projects that had royalty based payments. Of all of those, there's nothing more fulfilling (IMO) than doing a good job on a freelance project. I have never professionally drawn a "random orc or knight" - or anything even close to fantasy / sci-fi art - and I work digitally. Building up a solid and diverse stream of income is difficult, but it is absolutely the way to go. OP thinks they agree with this, but they don't actually understand the concept and it is 100% clear that they are not a working professional. No professional illustrator is actually worried about competing with "chinese art gods".

>> No.4323219

>>4323180
thanks the insight anon, i was thinking about going on the patreon route

>> No.4323259

>>4323218
This is just hillarious. So now the topic is being pin-holed into assuming I’m just saying to focus just on patreon when the actual topic was to MAKE SOMETHING YOU CONTROL, THATS COMPLETELY YOUR OWN, SO YOURE NOT BEHOLDEN TO CLIENTS FOR A PAY CHECK.

Youre literally doing what I’m suggest by running an online art store..YOUR ART IS DOING MORE THAT SITTING ON ARTSTATION FOR SOME POTENTIAL CLIENT TO STUMBLE ACROSS. YOU ADDED MORE CONTEXT BY TURNING IT INTO A PRODUCT NON ART DIRECTORS WOULD WANT.

Just wtf is this place?

You say i dont actually agree with this when my whole point is to make your art work for you in more way.
You ay youre collecting royalties from past projects you worked on with clients... What if those royalties just stop one day.. Why could YOU be the guy on the other end who created the project in the first place getting the bulk of profits? THATS MY POINT. YOU have tunnel vision. You’d rather be a worker than an owner.

Love how you guys keep riffing on this chinese art god thing when its clearly just an example of the artist thats leagues better than you thats probably cheaper

>> No.4323336

>>4323218
This Anon here >>4323180 fully agreed on this one.
>>4323259
You realize that instead of relying on "paycheck" on a couple trusted clients, you're relying on a thousand complete strangers who can stop supporting you any time they wish? Clients actually need your services, trust your professionalism and communicate with you personally, while patrons are just donating on a whim.
>Why could YOU be the guy on the other end who created the project in the first place getting the bulk of profits?
You're either 16 or very new to this. Selling intelectual property is not a one person job. If you make a comic book, you'll need a publishing house to print it or at least a store to resell your self-published shit. And yes no matter what you will have to share the profit with someone at some point and use a part of it to reinvest in the project.


No client I work with has any contracts with the Chinese, no matter how cheap they are. If they must outsource something to a poorer country, it will most likely be Russia or somewhere else in the eastern block, which is great for me, because that's where I'm from (and the money isn't bad at all, average by Western standars and very good by ours).

Believe it or not a client relationship is not just about the cost and quality of work. If you communicate with someone on a regular basis, they become accustomed to you and even start to like you. If you have a large Patreon account, you'll never have this sort of relation with each one of your patrons.

>> No.4323370

>>4323336
Its obvious who I’m talking to now. Youre completely content with your place as just an artist in a larger organization.

Youre completely blind to the fact that your client, your boss is just another dude like you, and you can creat something FOR YOURSELF similar to what he has created.

Theres tons of self-published artists out there who are doing just fine making enough to make a living.

You fail to see that making content for fans that they absolutely adore on a more passionate level than any AD can is just as valuable as a client freelancer relationship. Even more so in some regards.

You fail to see that even if you choose the route I’m suggesting, traditional freelance is always open to you, and even more so seeing that you could possible have 100’s of thousands of followers sharing your art across the net.. Pretty funny seeing as you guys were suggesting I was saying the exact opposite before. You assumed before i was saying to go all in on personal projects and no freelance, but now youre saying that.. just lol

And you think traditional freelance isnt subject to this catastrophic scenario you propose of loosing all financial support... Have you not seen the tons of SJW’s “canceling” professionals in the entertainment field?

Like i said I’m apparently talking to a wall here. Its so obvious most of the replies that seem to disagree with my points are just artists who are comfortable being artists and not business owners.

>You’re either 16 or very new to this. Selling intellectual property is not a one person job. If you make a comic book, you’ll need a publishing house to print or at least a store to resell your self-published shit.

To reply back to me with such statement is basically saying youre not willing to put in the work on the things you just listed. Youre happy just being the art printer and thats it. Which is fine, but I’m not addressing your type here.

Good luck keeping the same clients for 40+ years

>> No.4323399

>>4323370
>Youre completely blind to the fact that your client, your boss is just another dude like you, and you can creat something FOR YOURSELF similar to what he has created.
Call me crazy but I actually like making things that benefit people other than myself. We live in a society after all.
>Like i said I’m apparently talking to a wall here. Its so obvious most of the replies that seem to disagree with my points are just artists who are comfortable being artists and not business owners.
I literally AM a business owner. My business sells creative services to larger businesses (agencies) who then sell them to corporations. This is my work in a nutshell, I don't see how this worse than selling out to normies. Evn if you sell your own personal project, it has to adapt to an audience to some extent and random people on the internet are harsher critics than any art director in the world.
>To reply back to me with such statement is basically saying youre not willing to put in the work on the things you just listed
No I'm not willing to, because there is no point. I don't have a fantastic idea for a lore or a fandom and this is perfectly fine for me as well as thousands of other creatives.
>Good luck keeping the same clients for 40+ years
Why thank you, this is precisely what I would wish for myself.

>> No.4323417
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4323417

More flawed arguments from an anon that shows they are clearly not a working professional, and that they should not be lecturing others on how the real world functions. I'm >>4323218 >>4321557

>>4323259
>YOUR ART IS DOING MORE THAT SITTING ON ARTSTATION FOR SOME POTENTIAL CLIENT TO STUMBLE ACROSS
This is how I know you have never worked a professional freelance job in your life. You seemingly assume that people create portfolios, throw them up online and just get "discovered". That's just a lazy misunderstanding of how real freelance careers are built. Anons like you never even seem to acknowledge the fact that networking and real, proactive self-promotion play a role in creating strong freelancer/client relationships.
>You’d rather be a worker than an owner.
I am the owner of a freelance illustration business. I operate mostly in business-to-business.

>>4323370
>Why could YOU be the guy on the other end who created the project in the first place
>Youre completely blind to the fact that your client, your boss is just another dude like you, and you can creat something FOR YOURSELF similar to what he has created.
I can't wrap my my head around your thought process here. It's my best guess that you think that self-publishing is somehow an all-encompassing antithesis to freelancing, but thinking like that willfully ignores what a freelancer does and the role they play in a larger business.
I don't want to operate a brewery, I just want to illustrate cool beer labels and packaging.
I don't want to start a magazine publication and build it up to international circulation, I just want to illustrate cool covers.
I don't want to start an video game studio, I just want to illustrate cool promo art.
I don't want to launch and run an apparel print shop, I just want to illustrate cool apparel designs.
I don't want to be an AD for a single company, I just want to illustrate all sorts of different projects for a variety of different clients.

>> No.4323421

>>4323370
>>You fail to see that making content for fans that they absolutely adore on a more passionate level than any AD can is just as valuable as a client freelancer relationship. Even more so in some regards.

based

>> No.4323435

>>4323399
Forgive me if I came off harsh in my last reply

I dont see anything wrong with pursuing either side of the coin I made this just to propose a side that could be just as lucrative and satisfying for many artists.
I didnt mean to discredit you as a business owner, reading back over my last post it comes off that way. I’m aware freelancers are business owners but in the grand scheme they have just one skill set that fits in the peg of a bigger system. I’m suggesting artists create their own systems, expand their skillset into more traditional forms of business that their clients have, and take more control of their livelyhood.

Its fine youre not willing to go this route due to lack of a “fantastical idea” but thats literally what I’m getting at. You dont need much to get started. You’ve played video games, you’ve watched movies. You can Study your favorites and take what you love the most from them and condense that down into your own intellectual property. Adding your own voice here and there naturally, and that 10% difference is what makes it unique.
Like you just said you will have to adapt the work once its out, but its coming from a place where it was already 90% in your control from the start. Youre just tweaking it as needed.

And not being condescending i honestly do wish you could have the same high paying clients for 40+ years but you see the ridiculousness of that statement unless you bag a juggernaut client like Coke-cola or Disney.

and even then whose to say they will keep you forever? It still comes back to my whole point. Youre giving away TOO MUCH CONTROL. Youre beholden to your client always having work for you I’m just suggesting you create your own work and opportunities in an ip you have complete control over.

And to say making a personal project is completely self serving when other have the same interests is showing the blindness I’m talking about here

>> No.4323446

>>4321151
>He’d get absolutely recked for his anatomy and rendering until he became just another photo bashing boring concept artists making forgettable derivative interactions of a post-apocalyptic robot dude inspired by the same 3 movies every other artist is inspired by...
So like every thread on this board?

>> No.4323451

>>4323417
>I can't wrap my my head around your thought process here.

Exactly theres that blindspot again

>It's my best guess that you think that self-publishing is somehow an all-encompassing antithesis to freelancing

I’m not suggesting that this route is the cure to freelancing for clients. I’m clearly saying if you got into this to make your own shit and make a living from that, the traditional freelancing route of working for other businesses is probably doing more harm to that initial plan you set out with.
Take more responsibility in the way of learning more about business, not just freelance business, and apply that to building up your personal Spider-Man or shovel knight...


>I don't want to operate a brewery, I just want to illustrate cool beer labels and packaging.
I don't want to start a magazine publication and build it up to international circulation, I just want to illustrate cool covers.
I don't want to start an video game studio, I just want to illustrate cool promo art.
I don't want to launch and run an apparel print shop, I just want to illustrate cool apparel designs.
I don't want to be an AD for a single company, I just want to illustrate all sorts of different projects for a variety of different clients.

Like i said if this is what you want this isnt for you. What i dont get is why instead of just saying this most of the replies were anons becoming immediately hostile and saying the route I’m suggesting “Won’t work” and “isnt logical”. (Theres that blind spot again)

Just admit you dont want to own the building. That doesnt mean some artists dont have aspirations to.

>> No.4323458

>>4323435
>You’ve played video games, you’ve watched movies. You can Study your favorites and take what you love the most from them and condense that down into your own intellectual property.
Ok what if
Seriously hear me out WHAT IF
I DON'T want to do that?
What if I actually enjoy sharing creative control over a project with other like-minded people and don't feel like building an entire intellectual property all by myself?

Also what this Anon said >>4323417 I just wanna draw, not single-handedly take care of both production, marketing and catering to fans. Another good point he brought up is that as a freelancer you absolutely have to make a proactive effort in building a network with people you actually want to work for. You have in fact a lot of control over your "livelyhood" because you choose the clients you actually like and who are willing to pay you as much as you wish. It's not like you own a shop and sell your labor to anyone who comes around. You are free to pick and choose who to work with, and that's yet another awesome perk.
>>4323421
What, you mean like orbitters? I exchange pics from vacation with my art directors and talk openly about our personal lives, that's not something you do with fans.

>> No.4323469
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4323469

>>4321128
>Tons of artists just have tunnel vision and wont accept this. Thoughts?

Yes. But people want to get there through skill alone. like you said; tunnelvisioned. From the day they start chanting LOOMISLOOMISLOOMIS they enter (or rather get dragged) into a tunnel of eternal practice of fundamentals at the cost of everything. So very few artists are capable of visualizing interesting worlds (funny enough; actual CONCEPT art).

The first one that comes to mind is Moebius.
In the tunnel people forget that drawing hands well isnt the goal, it's making sure that the knowledge of drawing hands assists in the overal quality of the visualization of a story.
You do not need to draw proko-tier hands in order to make a story, rather focus on the creative process of storytelling, product delivery, design, showmanship and developing your visual library.

Once you practice based on the current design you're working on (let's say a cool glove thing gauntlet) and your visual instincts catch up to your skill and you realize "shit, my hands are really bad compared to the rest of my skills", then you draw hands. It also adds a neccesity and meaning towards the study rather then just practice for the sake of it.

>> No.4323476

>>4323469
Kinda went off-topic but a rant because a few years ago when I finally got a chance to prove my worth I had extreme difficulties actually coming up with interesting stuff. Thankfully my mentor at the job helped me through this rut. People get so focused on becoming X and chanting LOOMIS here to the point where it's like a cult

Anime bad
Post apocalyptic photobash good
Draw Draw Draw Draw dont think just Draw

>> No.4323503

>>4323469
You fucking get it. This is what I’m fucking talking about.


All the artists here who worship guys like moebius dont understand what he realized.

No one looks at Akira toriyamas work and rags on his triangle eyes, his spikey hairs or his ability to draw believable folds.. Yet someone he’s still a god. Oh wow how is that? They love what this guy created but are completely detached from the reality of things Akira realized about taking this route I’m suggesting. THEY ARE BLIND.

They dont see that art skill is just one tiny part of a bigger system that THEY could be building. They double down, triple down, on this tiny part. “Client wants this. Ok back to rendering.. huh now I’m in between jobs.. Lets spend a month on a piece to show clients how I’m EVEN BETTER at rendering”
(That blind spot)


You hit the nail on the head. >They get dragged into a tunnel of eternal practice of fundamentals AT THE COST OF EVERYTHING.

But it goes even deeper than that... Everything being what I’ve tried to explain in so many words here..

I’m glad someone here understands.

>> No.4323524

>>4323503
>"Client wants this. Ok back to rendering.. huh now I’m in between jobs.. Lets spend a month on a piece to show clients how I’m EVEN BETTER at rendering"
What?? You're still not understanding anything about what commissioning process looks like. I don't even know what you're talking about, just stop spreading this nonsense.

Moebius sustained himself from client work for MOST of his career. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Giraud Look at all of his collaborators, publishers and writers. He hardly ever worked independently.

>> No.4323543

>>4323180
>One youtuber recently doxxed someone on Twitter by accident, deleted post instantly but Patreon still banned him, taking away his main source of revenue.
Stuff like that happens every other day, you have to be more precise. Who did you have in mind?

>> No.4323589

>>4323218
>running an online store to sell merch to fans
As in? Franchise specific fan-stuff that you created?
>and collecting passive income from past client projects that had royalty based payments.
Can you go a little more in-depth how that exactly works or for what purpose your work has been used?

>> No.4324467

>>4323503
But its simple

Akira, moebius ect, are artists using illustration as a toolkit
For most people the act of drawing is their art, but they lack vision, subject or pyrpose. Its why so many people quit very early on; they want to draw because its either fun or they saw stuff that looks cool and come to the conclusion that they want to do it too but the eternal grind lacks purpose.

What you're talking about is not a "why arent they creating successful businesses around themselves" but more the fact they cant. Its also why so many big artists now sell mentorships, feedback and classes; these people know how to draw but it lacks purpose, a reason. They draw because they enjoy the process and not because they need it thus are left with either doing client work getting told what to draw and design or selling their skills to others.

Lets say if you dont have the constant nag to draw whats in your mind or wake up to quickly sketch something you had dreamt then you're one of the fodder artists.

Illustration as a skill vs as a tool

>> No.4324978

>>4323589
>As in? Franchise specific fan-stuff that you created?
I've definitely done a good chunk of bootleg "parody" pop culture merch stuff. Though I tend not to as much these days - different franchises have become much more zealous in the past few years (especially this past year) in taking down stuff online. Creating your own original, not-IP related stuff is the safest thing you could do, albeit a bit harder to sell.

>Can you go a little more in-depth how that exactly works or for what purpose your work has been used?
My most fruitful example of this is teaming up with a print shop to sell my illustrations on apparel and stuff via Amazon Prime. I provided some designs, and they did the rest. I get a cut of the profits, and they send me a breakdown of the sales performance & a check every month (for the past 1.5 years and counting), I absolutely trust them to be professional in their sale reporting and paying in full. It's a win-win for both of us.

>> No.4325082

I'm not sure, I've spent my first 9 months so far drawing figures and fashion items, among other things I like. I can only tell if it's a waste of time long into the future. When I feel like I recently resorted to writing when I felt like I wasn't doing something "right".

>> No.4325095
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4325095

>>4321128

unrelated to the thread, but what is your opinion on the Tetsujin-28 and/or the works of Mitsuteru Yokoyama?

>> No.4325855

>>4324467
Upboating, saved me from having to write it myself.