/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>4197159
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TQKuT-erByoLpsK_3Tf7G03BtnZy1GaR-jIgLXP7QZc/edit
Pretty legit. We should put it in the sticky.

>>4197159
i dont think porn artists deserve it. theyre pretty bottom barrel.

>>4197159
This is affecting me pretty bad. I dont feel confident without a reference.

>>4197168
i am myself very uninterested in porn art and never did any, but i honestly dont mind it, if this is what gives them money and what people ask for then why the hell not. I just dont interact with any porn art or porn artists and I'm ok wih that.

>>4197159
What the fuck, an actual new helpful thread on /ic/?

>>4197172
well i hope this guide can help you somehow. you can do it anon.

>>4197176
the actual truth is i just got angry with that one idiot who keeps making the same stupid troll/meta threads every day and i needed to create something of any value

>>4197172
Same here, i can barely start drawing without looking at a reference.

You could literally overcome this if you draw more. Now there will be more pajeets and filipine shits asking for tips on how to pick which books will help them draw forms.

>>4197159
pyw

>>4197184
You're one of the good anons around here.

>>4197159
>"clothing and figure" book
What is this? Do you mean "clothing on figures"?

>>4197193
sure. ive been posting and lurking pretty frequently around here. im not any kind of a pro so dont expect fireworks.

>>4197218
oh yes, of course, sorry for that, i knew i messed something up in the clothing section, its so chaotic. im gonna fix it, thanks

>>4197221
based and actually not /beg/ tier

>>4197221
oh we're mutuals on instagram
big mcthankies from mcspankies for the guide

dont forget the very words of one of the only people to ever actually make it from /ic/ is to actually just draw from imagination

>>4197159
Good post dude

>>4197159
man I'm so tired
I draw something from imagination, get yelled at by crabs that I'm not using a ref, draw from a ref, get yelled at that it's not from imagination
draw a sheet of quick practice sketches, get yelled at that it looks effortless, spend hours upon hours on a drawing, get yelled at for polishing a turd, draw something that doesn't have as much effort but obviously isn't polishing turds, get yelled at that its not finished
and through all of this, get absolutely no helpful critiques until I bitch about this all

today I finally got helpful critiques and I'm starting all the way from square one with a self made plan based off of the sticky and another book guide, gonna incorporate this doc into it too

>>4197221
one thing i'd like to add is that since i've let myself actually draw something from imagination and stopped being afraid of it, i've been having a lot of fun with my sketchbook and doodling stupid things like jokes about of my teachers and friends and these drawing seem genuinely funny to me and make me happier. i know it might sound stupid but its really important to me. i feel like this is something i've been missing for a long time. (sorry for the shitty pic)

>>4197255
amen. intuition is everything.

>>4197159
This is a pretty useful guide OP. You're a cool duder

>>4197221
Hate to be THAT GUY but with such quality of artworks next time try to follow your own advices and then decide if you good enough of an artist to come up with a guide.

Don't trying to be mean, but it's a general quality of a beginners to feel entitled to give advices in art when they are obviously not supposed to, because they are themselves can't fully understand what are they talking about. They think they're, though.

>>4197257
focus on yourself more, ask yourself whether you like the piece before you ask anyone else. rely on the level of your own satisfaction. a fuck ton of people here are going in circles with the same list of books and resources over and over again and have no idea how to improve, let alone develop their own style. focus on what you LIKE drawing first and foremost, not on what you think you have to draw.

>>4197270
thing is I do like what I end up creating, I think its sometimes good enough to be in a comic or animation, and then I take a step back and say "am I going into the egotistical phase of art, is this actually shit", and then I post it to see if thats true, usually after I notice a few flaws, but I post anyway, in case theres even more flaws that I missed or if other people agree that the flaws I am seeing are there
and holy shit, do people enjoy saying its shit while offering nothing useful
well, I'm grateful for the few times I do actually get a good critique

>>4197269
>beginner
OP seems to be pretty fucking skilled and at the very least could keep up with most popular artists on social media.
Regardless of that, unless you're a pro yourself then from what expertise can you tell OP that their advice is bunk?

>>4197269
i am 100% convinced i made a great progress with my art and the level of my drawings of imagination is incomparable to what i would draw before (or would rather not draw at all). i wouldnt post the guide nor my work if i wasnt confident it was ok. i think the quality of my recent artwork is objectively decent. people who dont draw from imagination at all are beginner tier (like i used to be) and i feel i am in an okay position to give advice to beginners. im not attempting to teach ruan jia level of rendering to anyone lol. just read the guide, i included some very basic stuff, nothing advanced. i just listed some well known resources and words of encouragement.

also, pyw.

Thank you
I will never use a reference ever again

>>4197269
post your work crab.

>>4197274
take a look at your fav artists' social media. wouldnt you say these seem a little "egoistical" to you? its okay to put your ideas out there, the improvement will come with time. theres no point in hiding under your desk grinding fundies for 5 years until you allow yourself to accept your work.

>>4197291
I mean, I know what you're saying but the title of the only 2 blogs I have saved are "watch me fail" and "idiot attempts to make art"
but yeah I know lots of good and mediocre artists are overly confident in their art

>>4197269
that annoying fuckward with useless opinions. Yeah you are that guy.

>>4197269
This post is true, I don't know why others complain about it.
I am much better than that >>4197221 and I suffer very, very much from relying completely on references, so something doesn't add up here. Maybe OP recognizes that drawing from imagination is important early on, that's valuable but to be honest if I didn't know myself that relying on refs too much is bad, I wouldn't listen to him.

>>4197275
>>4197296
>>4197290
He's not even snipping you retards, stop being such children. OP is offering fine advice, but is not at the level to educate others, you're putting them on a pedestal for no reason. They are still simply rephrasing the advice and lessons of other people and if you get something out of it thats fine, lets not act like they made it and are enlightened with divine knowledge - there are thousands upon thousands of "decent" artists on instagram.

>>4197305
>I am much better than that >>4197221 and I suffer very, very much from relying completely on references,

>>4197269
His works aren't good and a lot of artists on /alt/ and /draw/ are already way better than him, BUT his advice is pretty common sense and valid so I'd give him a pass.

There are a few things I'd disagree with though, such as relying on bottom-of-the-barell lowest common denominator tutorials/infographics from Pinterest and DeviantArt which can be pretty harmful, imo.

>>4197308
using "they" as singular. Opinion discarded.

>>4197311
point is, its a better new thread than other new threads.

>>4197305
read my guide. i stated multiple times that reference studies will always look MUCH better than imaginative work if you neglect the latter. my ref studies are way better than the drawings i posted, this is the point.

>>4197313
though /ic/ is quickly ruining it with this pettiness.

>>4197312
Singular they has been in the English language for over 600 years you cretin, it's a perfectly cromulent word

>>4197312
>american education

>>4197318
The recent push to use it is based in ideology, however. That's why people are against it. They don't want to use the words of the opposing tribe.

pretty good so far

the whole point of the guide was to offer very basic and chill advice that gets overlooked, i know very well i am not pro by any means and thats exactly why im not posting a rendering or character design tutorial. this is more of an encouragement/life advice. nobody here putting me on a pedestal and i never claimed to be an art god, so chill people, its all good.

Be smart, don't derail a stellar thread before it even kicks off. People like OP and those who he may inspire through the guide are the lifeblood of this board. Preserve your homeboard

>>4197324
uh
what am I looking at?

>>4197221
actually putting yourself out here is pretty cool. thank you anon

>>4197159
Eh, I check all those boxes in part 1 and I am sad that I can't draw anything that I would really like to see, in my head it goes like this

>I would really like to do this fan art of my favorite character from this game in a dynamic pose with good lighting and composition, but I can't as hell do dynamic things, can't do colors, can't do lighting and composition
>I'd rather grind and post online studies that look good and get me likes but don't improve me as an artist beyond copying skills instead of doing stuff in enormous amounts that I wouldn't be able to show for a very long time

I don't know how to escape this prison. I mean I can improve in every aspect but it will take years before I can post anything that matches my studies.

>>4197329

good anime girls

>>4197338
accept that your art wont match your studies for some time. you have to start somewhere. make a separate anonymous art acc if you need. like you said, its a prison and not fun at all to live and create like this

>>4197327
this

>>4197335
i try my best to stay sober about my level but also not hate myself too much.

im gonna go to bed now hope someone found this guide useful

>>4197338
Start drawing small and don't try to make a big ambitious piece. Do rough thumbnails after thumbnails. Focus on the big pieces and broad shapes. Don't be afraid to trash it and move on.

>>4197351
I did. Much appreciated anon. Thank you.

>>4197159

Anon from >>4194739. Keep up the holy work.

>>4197269
>being this much of a crab

>>4197269
Don't worry we all hate you too.

crabworld when

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tBkgnl8tX3BJLz85z6AsFcYlDsLiniIdExxKerYt5EU/edit?usp=sharing

(its a google doc anyone can edit~express ursefl!)

>>4197159
I didn't read all of it, but the the sections on Creativity/Loish and Inspiration are important. I don't think I'd have gotten nearly as far as I have without inspiration on a near weekly basis. These sort of "epiphanies" would give me a tremendous burst of energy and resolve to draw the best thing I could, which often didn't pan out, but each failure taught me something new and I got better.

Also, it's okay to quit posting to work on your art. The guide didn't exactly say otherwise, but it did stress that Loish never stopped, an example of her work ethic and creativity. That might work for Loish but not for everybody. Quitting social media to spend some time in the lab with no pressure can be valuable. Just be thoughtful and don't mindlessly grind while doing so, keep doing creative stuff even if it's too bad to show to anybody.

>>4197269
Holy shit someone old bay this faggot snapper

>>4197308
>>4197312
>>4197318
Tranny newspeak aside,
If we're talking about neutral pronouns, why would he use "he" for the crab and "they" for OP?

Clearly he knows some information we don't.

I need the exact opposite; drawing more from references and enjoying studying others.

I have never had artists I wished to copy or draw like. This makes me an island where reinventing the wheel and everything else feels necessary.

>>4197338
Anon, is your userbase worth it?
There is a common talking point about small bands who decide to change their style in order to make some sort of success.
Lots of people - ESPECIALLY the band members themselves - feel like that's the artist betraying his true purpose, or even the fans.

But the truth is if the public wanted your music to stay the same, it wouldn't ignore you. Turning down a hundred fans - that won't be able to pay you enough to justify such a career - in order to chase millions of other opportunities is not wrong, selfish or even hard. It's liberating.

tl;dr post what you want and if people won't support that, let them go

>>4197159
Thank you for this, I've downloaded and will read first thing tomorrow.
Even if it's not useful for me I appreciate the effort anon god bless

>>4197269
those that can, do
those that can't, teach
those that can't teach, crab.

>>4197489
>he
Excuse me? Did you just....

>>4197159

How very ironic...I was writing my own version of your document for myself. Interesting how we both somehow realized this. Of course my writing is much different on how to approach things. When I find that my approach 100% works I'll share it with the community here just like you.

>>4197623
Actually nevermind I skimmed and scanned and it has nothing to do with my writing.

>>4197159
>And even if you try, it’s the same skewed doodle of the same ¾ profile of a random girl.

Ouch ! Ouch !

>>4197159
>+31 viewers
neat, just managed to reach the same number as the posters itt

Just read it. Imho the best advice I got was You are studying so you an't remember it without reference. That and the od study materials recs weres good.

Though pretty much everything els was fluff imo. Still pretty good.

>>4197627
Post your writing, maybe OP can encorporate it with yours.

>>4197159
first pyw then talk

>>4197976
lurk more

your ramblings are as helpful in drawing as er"s manifesto

>>4198219
Who?

>>4197627
care to share it? can paste in into the guide.

>>4197976
i posted it yesterday, but you need an attention span higher that 0.5 sec.

>>4197946
glad you managed to find something helpful in it.

i am of course fully aware this is not a super quality learning material, i meant for it to be more of a reason to get some people thinking about their insecurities and just to give more attention to this problem in general. i never saw anything solid about it posted here, maybe 2 random comments and that's it. im seeing this comment for the first time ever for example: >>4197255
even though this is some serious solid advice.

also i was pretty surprised that some guys here started rambling on how shitty my art is and how im in no place to teach, as if i ever tried to teach anything in the first place and claimed to be an amazing artist Lol. i thought it was pretty obvious i posted this as advice from one student to another.

BTW if someone would like to recommend any other good resources on drawing from imagination please do, i'd love to learn from it and we can add it to the guide. anything about figure invention, perspective, coming up with ideas. i hoped yall would help me expand it.

>>4198272
oh, and another thing i'd like to add: dont treat this guide as a resource on how to make GOOD drawings from imagination, treat it as a resource on how to start making ANY drawings from imagination. just being able to fill the canvas without looking at a reference.

>>4198272
pin 2d has good references for drawing clothes I would recomedn those too.

ok op i tried
here is a drawing completely from memory
i also used the floating hands technique from another thread

>>4198305
lol i saw that hand advice as well. i've never heard about the method and it sounds bizarre but i guess it can produce poses and designs you wouldnt think of normally and thats a good thing

congrats dude, im very proud of you, i know its very hard, welcome to the club. now keep drawing. you will improve over time. maybe take the design and draw more sketches of this character.

>>4198290
>pin 2d
hey sorry can you link me to it? im stupid and cannot find anything about it

>>4198320
Here you go, anon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDdFXLsSh9g

>>4198331
Thank you very much, I added it to the guide.

I fixed the clothing paragraph in general because it was very chaotic and the advice wasnt that good, i think its much better now. I also fixed some other things and added some parts that make the whole guide easier to understand and use.

>>4198305
>floating hands technique from another thread
Oh? Can you link it?

>>4198389
>>4198252

>>4198389

I also fixed the paragraph about perspective, added 2 pictures and added another learning resource for line confidence/economy/dynamism/etc because i know Peter Han and Drawabox dont sit well with many people here.

>>4198504
If anyone has other books/tutorials on drawing texture please share it with us as I would also like to add something else than drawabox.

OP, I just skimmed the tutorial cause I'm the opposite of the problem (too little grinding, only drawing from imagination).

I'd like to help you by providing this non-coomer tutorial for that tulpa part:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F2qjtwcMhA

>>4198729
thanks a lot, i placed your link in the place of the tulpa guide. sorry about that weird link it was the only resource i knew lol

>>4197221
good art, but nowhere close to the level where you can give people advise

>>4198765
post yours so we can see if it's worth taking your "advise"

>>4198765
refer to >>4198272 and >>4198277
where i explain im not trying to teach anybody anything, im rather simply encouraging people to start drawing from imagination and its written at the very top of the guide. dont be anal about people trying to help others before they become masters of art, im sure you're aware this board is 90% intermediate/beginner people trying to figure everything out on their own and helping each other.

drawing from imagination doesn't net you a job
trace it, if you can't trace it copy it
you have billions of images and nobody cares if you swipe
just don't waste your time

if you are against tracing or copying every single thing and you want to do without "crutches" you will still be less efficient than someone who traces and the only real difference is that one artist or two might give an additional fuck that you're actually good if you get fucking amazing
take this as you will

>>4198776
are you doing it?

>>4198776
Pyw?

>>4198776
who said work? being a copy is not fulfilling

>>4198776
okay, so let's say we're talking about sakimichan, or whatever money-making online artist out there (we're focusing solely on money, not on whether you like their art or not). are you saying these artists need to find an exact reference (or even someone else's artwork)before they mark any lines on their paper? because this is what the guide is for, for allowing yourself to draw something without ref, i stated in the first post i am not denying the fact that reference is useful and necessary.

your answer is very nihilistic and sounds almost like trolling. many people do care about their skills for whatever reasons, you can view it as inefficient but thats your problem.

>>4198786
>responding to obvious bait
yudodis

>>4197159
Thank you dear, the resources are very useful, even if my problem is the opposite.

>>4198845
Same
All I do is randomly sketch rarely using ref. I'm sort of decent but I never get better drawing the same thing half-guessing most of it

>>4198272
>BTW if someone would like to recommend any other good resources on drawing from imagination please do
Slightly different to what you are talking about but I always liked Maurice Nobles writing about design and invention.

>>4199012
Is there a pdf of this anywhere?

>>4197159
>>learn perspective
>>learn gesture
>>learn to put basic shapes in perspective according to gestures
>>learn clothing folds
>>learn shading
>>gitgud no ref only imaginz

that it?

>>4197159
Excellent guide, Anon. Thanks a lot

If you want to draw from imagination I will give you a super epic trick that will make you able to draw from your head without a sweat!
FUCKING DRAW THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN FROM REFERENCE AND COPY YOUR FAVOURITE ARTISTS WORK

how about a guide on how to stop doodling from imagination all the time and put some actual effort in photo studies

OP is like a fucking anime protagonist inspiring all of us to not lose our way. Thank you so much OP. I didn't even have that much of a problem with "grinding" that much but I could tell I was starting to get really stuck into grinding instead of working on what I wanted.

Dumb question though, I looked through and did some of the stuff from Perspective Made Easy when I was starting out a year ago but haven't really gone back to it since and have been going through the beginning of it again. I don't fully understand how this is supposed to help so much with figure drawing exactly? Pic sort of related?

>>4199625
>I don't fully understand how this is supposed to help so much with figure drawing exactly?
Neither do OP. It's just a cheer up guide, so don't get discourage :)

>>4199632
Well, clearly he fucking does, retard, otherwise he wouldn't have put it in there. He literally says, "This is the fastest way to improve your drawing". I am sorry that you want to be a passive aggressive dickhead on an anonymous image board at 5am because you're a baddy.

>>4199632
OP does understand and will explain it now. i dont post anything i dont understand, as opposed to many people on this board that just throw 200 hundred page books they never read at people who are at the level where they cant draw a straight line.

>>4199625
im gonna explain this as I understand it and nothing else.
1. lets look at what "perspective made easy" teaches us in the couple of first pages
A. horizon level
B. vanishing point
C. foreshortening

2. now, how these 3 simple concepts help us construct a human figure:
A horizon level/eye level - whats below the eye level we see from above, whats above the eye level we see from below. any time you draw a human figure, you're sunbconsciously establishing an eye level. and if you dont draw the parts of the body accordingly to whether we see them from below or above, the figure will look flat and skewed. picrel, example 1.
B. vanishing points - is something is "aimed" at us, we see it converging towards a point (a vanishing point) somewhere in the back and expanding towards us. a good example of a body part "aimed" towards us is a head seen from above. picrel, example 2.
C. foreshortening - similarly to 2), if something is "aimed" at us, its parts are covering up the parts behind. think of an arm aimed towards us, or a hip of a person sitting in front of you. if you imagine them as slices, the slices closer to you are covering up the slices in the back, thus making this whole body part appear shorter.

3. how to practice this way of thinking:
this is what i did - i suggest you take artworks of artists you like and try to find the eye level. the eye level is where the body parts are neither seen from below nor above, they're just presented frontally. when we see them from above, for example we can see the tip of the characters head, theres a good chance the head (and thus the whole figure) is below the eye level (unless the character is bending over and is above the eye level...).

>>4199675
sorry, forgot to add - C) is presented in example 3 in the picture

>>4197159

I rarely reply on this board but i hadlve to say thank you.
Is there anything that could be done that this thread would never get deleted?

>>4197159

can confirm

left is with references, right from imagination

>>4197159
>be me
>find /ic/
>fall into all the traps mentioned
Bookmarked. This should get stickied.

>>4199930
well i hope the guide can help you to overcome some of your problems

>>4199684
np glad i could help

>>4199012
sorry didnt notice it earlier. its interesting, i'll add it to the inspiration section thank you

if any of you felt inspired and created something go ahead and post your art & your inspirations here >>4200356

>>4197159
Any guides on the opposite issue, using references well? I see people using a single reference image of a character to make a completely different drawing. I feel like there is a huge disconnect when I use references.

>>4200412
i was about to answer but then i thought that if i had this whole problem with relying on reference too much then i probably dont know how to use it correclty lol

heres a pic i found a long time ago maybe its helpful

>>4199675
This is EXTREMELY helpful. I am going to keep this in mind more when drawing figures. I have been practicing for the past hour keeping it in mind. Also thank you for ass blasting that fucking retard. I hadn't even considered that was how foreshortening worked. I was sort of just drawing figures however the fuck I wanted and it "kind" of worked, but now I am going to keep this perspective stuff in mind.

And again, thank you for this guide. I had really lost my way until I had read your guide. I had this idea in my mind that I needed to "get good" before I started working on any of my ideas, which is just ridiculous thinking back on it. I had completely lost what had inspired me to start in the first place. It's almost easier to just grind books and random shapes and think "eventually" it'll all come together, but clearly that isn't the path to success.

>>4199675
The first one is a bit off, the horizon line is probably somewhere between their shoulders and waists. See the eye line.

>>4197159
>>Read these quickly, make some ref studies just to get the idea and start using it for drawing from imagination asap.

do we draw the examples in these three books?

>>4199675
>i dont post anything i dont understand, as opposed to many people on this board that just throw 200 hundred page books they never read at people
when you say this you are supposed to post your own drawings, not someone else's.

>>4201268
i wont because
1) everyone will deny everything i tried to explain, using Gi’s drawing will shut haters up
2) for the 1000th time im just a student and Im still learning and my art isnt perfect at all as you can clearly see, i cannot apply all of this knowledge yet and i dont understand whats so shocking about this for everyone on this board. its a perfectly normal stage of studying where you understand theory but still have to work on applying it.
I dont know how else i can stress the fact that im not posting any of this from a position of a teacher but a fellow student trying to figure shit out, i want to do this together im not putting myself here on any pedestal. do we just wait for kim jung gi to start posting here and forbid anyone else from giving any advice? maybe youre all used to people who are fucking assholes that post their advice like its the Absolute Truth and refuse to question it? im not that kind of person

>>4201240
thank you very much, you're right, i fill fix it in the guide version

>>4201215
im happy to provide something helpful

>>4201261
sorry i didnt word that clearly, i meant its good to make some quick gesture studies based on reference (photo, video) just to get the idea and then start using this skill to draw your own ideas. i dont think copying gesture drawings from the book is that helpful, as the gesture is supposed to exaggarate an already existing pose that the books dont show. also im pretty sure i mentioned only 2 books in the gesture section? hampton and matessi

>>4201379
The reasons you gave for not posting your art are the same reasons why everyone else doesn't post his art on this board and "throws books at people" instead.
I don't mean to shit on you or criticize what you're saying specifically but the idea you're doing anything different than the book throwing anons is a bit silly, and the "if I post my art then people will contradict me" mindset is the reason why this board is kind of crappy and it's become a circlejerk about popular artists.
It's a bit like omerta. If nobody posts, when someone posts they get shit on and everyone just dogpiles. Just post your art if you are confident you understood something.

>>4201398
i didnt mean to say that the books i mentioned are in any way wrong or incorrect. Obviously I am not questioning Hampton or Huston or anyone else with my level of art (lol). i meant to say that people tend to overload beginners with a lot of complex resources that teach about too many subjects for a beginner to comprehend. thats why i think its better to recommend smaller portions and only material that youre familiar with. Plus I am more than convinced that often than not people who recommend these resources havent gone through it themselves so they dont even know how much work they require to finish. When I recommend "perspective made easy" i know every page of that book and im prepared to answer the questions and take responsibility for my advice. I wouldn't recomment Loomis because frankly I've worked through maybe 5 pages max.

I DO agree with you though that Im adding to the general crappy atmosphere here by not posting my art because Im afraid of critique, i have nothing else in my defense than the fact that Ive already been shit on a lot here and right now Im a little tired/discouraged, but I will try to do it different in the future

Thank you for responding in a normal way

>>4197175
You just did. I'm a porn artist. Bitch.

>>4201430
wow its almost like i dont seek out interaction with porn artists specifically though i can i and i do talk to porn artists when im not aware of what they do in their private time and i dont mind anyway, who wouldve thought that, bitch

>>4197159
Absolutely BASED post. Fuck /ic/.

>>4201430
>>4197175
The fallacy here is that there are no porn artists because porn is not art.
>inb4 reee
cope harder, hooker

>>4199675
but why knowing the horizon level will help me drawing from imagination? we do establish the eye level subconsciously anyway so why bother doing this analysis?

This should 100% be in the sticky.

>>4197159
this guy put some random how to guide together and it's 100 times better than the sticky

thanks based OP.

>>4198765
tell us how much kjg's advice helped your art

his whole shtick is basically draw_the_rest_of_the_owl

you don't need to be pro tier to give good advice.if anything I would be very wary of pros who learned their craft because talent and just drawing whole life since they draw from intuition and cant really describe what they do

>>4201582
No worries autistic friend im very patient

Lets put it this way: you start drawing a figure, lets say an anime girl. Lets say you draw the head first. You drew the head from a specific perspective, you always do even if you dont think about it - maybe we can see the top of the head, maybe we can see it frontally, maybe from below? No matter which of these 3 options are true, when you draw the rest of the girl, you need to draw the body parts accordingly. If we see the head frontally, youll probably need to draw the feet as seen slightly from above. If the head was seen from above, the feet will be seen fully from above and maybe even covered by a body part/clothing.

The horizon line is where the frontal view is, so if you draw the head frontally, thats where the horizon line is and everything below it you need to draw as seen from above. You establish the line subconsciously, true, but you need to put your thinking into making sure the rest of the figure is drawn correctly. (of course some people have an intuition for this and dont need to think about any of that, i do need to think about it a lot because am stupid). You get it now?

>>4201579
wow you reached the lowest low now. its amazing to see you reply to all threads with your edgy crap, you dont make any effort to cover up the fact its you.

>>4201604
Not him but KJG probably just explains things badly, he draws with very strict construction and he draws a lot. You can see where he hasn't worked out a difficult pose here and there and it's the same stuff you have trouble with when you're constructing odd angles from imagination.
I would chime in and say something for the thread but I don't think I'm competent enough and my art is probably too ugly to work as an example. Just wanted to say KJG is definitely a product of construction. He's talented for having insane visualization skills but I think you can achieve the same final result with a few more steps.

>>4201619
if you have anything valuable to add, just add. your level doesnt matter, if its logical and sane advice we will know and it can help someone

>>4201612
thanks i get it now

lol at all the pushback when someone tries to make a helpful thread

>>4201770
i actually feel very discouraged. but at the same time some people said it helped a lot and also shared more resources so maybe not all hope is lost but im def les motivated then i was when i created this guide.

completely offtopic but here's peter han's new drawing he did during a live stream, i like it a lot and its all from imagination. lots of people here say he just does animals and ref studies so i thought i'd share

>>4201774
i love you

>>4201774
Fuck the crabs, this thread/doc is beautiful. Shine on, you blessed OP. YGMI

>>4197159
everyone in this thread is a monumental faggot
good guide OP

What exactly is style? If you're inspired to do anime shit but it never quite looks like your favorite mangaka, is how it does end up looking your style, or are you just a failure at what you were trying to draw and "style" is an excuse?

>>4201854
just compare different artists. if you're able to see significant differences between their artworks (even though the're all correct in term of art fundamentals) and you'd recognize thair art instantly then you know they have a style. no need to overthink it.

i believe style starts developing when you start highlighting parts of reality that inspire you and simplifying parts that dont really interest you. thats why you need to draw for some time for the style to start developing, if you dont try to observe and imagine then you wont find out what inspires you

i don't think its healthy to attempt to have a style exactly like someone else, how would it make any sense in the first place? in this case yes id say its a failure but simply because the person attempted a morally wrong thing in the first place. if you take a part of someones style and develop it on your own then its fine. real style is never an excuse for anything and i dont like this narrative where people say style is an excuse and the only acceptable portrayal is 100% realistic.

>>4201650
I don't know how commonplace this is but when I started aligning things with straight lines it was all easier. At least for figures it's all straight lines and spheres. A lot of things can be drawn across ellipses

>>4201777
>>4201796
>>4201835
thank u love u too guys

>>4197269
I can feel your asspain all the way over here in Canada dude. Holy kek

>>4201885
It won't let me upload a webm, says vp8 only
https://void.cat/#EOuc7BmXsplQzIcH5UIabM461Km:bb9b0e32aed495f9e47453a7096ef5eb:885a705c04775a769c1bbf8b3826e7de

>>4197324
Aren't these just screenshots from anime

>>4197224
Link to a PDF?

>>4202137
heres the up to date pdf https://mega.nz/#!9NFXyCTY!2rDIlufxrwJpu49dhCHpd-54sPB0VDADsc7NunfNED8

Thanks you op I did a complete drawing, it's utter shit but now I know what to do instead of grinding like a retard withouth a goal, thanks.

>>4202144
im very proud of you anon, heres a thumb up from op

>>4202152
qt

>>4197159
I don't think i'm the type of person this was intended for, but it still opened my eyes up a bit and gave me the drive to go draw something.
Thanks anon, should definitely be added to the sticky

zuzia please make a twitter so i can follow you

>>4202303
lol nobody ever calls me that im giggling rn here. i do have one but zero posts and followers, i need to start using it... @zuzannapx here u go

>>4202316
twitter is the most popular platform for art rn

So far this is pretty well-articulated and puts into words a lot of observations I've had myself.
Saving it to come back in a few hours, thank you for the resource.

I've fallen into this exact trap of studying to become technically impressive / "good" instead of just drawing what I want to draw. And by withholding creative efforts and confining yourself to drawing cubes, naked bodies and bland landscapes, you get progressively more tilted and lose sight of the inspirations that made you draw in the first place. I drove myself fucking insane doing this.

The main takeaway here is to make your grindan exercises interesting by integrating them into the shit that you *actually wanted to draw*.

>>4202144
I'm proud of you anon. Remember, finished not perfect https://youtu.be/lRtV-ugIT0k

>>4197159
OP I think you just completely changed my mindset, you described me perfectly, thanks for the guide. What's your insta I want to give you a follow??

>>4197159
HOLY SHIT ANON
THAT'S WHY I LOVE /IC/

STICKY

>>4202320
believe it or not i had no idea about this before i came to ic, nobody around me uses it and now i feel deceived lol. i will start uploading today

>>4202523
instagram.com/zuzannapx thank you

>>4202327
>confining yourself to drawing cubes, naked bodies and bland landscapes
dont remind me of the time i thought id be an enviro artist and i copied photos of landscapes. the cringe is real

>>4202555
some people say it should be in the sticky and im flattered, but honest question, does anyone update the sticky anymore? it looks abandoned to me? and that big sticky on google docs is super chaotic

is draw a box enough to grind perspective or do we grind Perspective_Made_Easy.pdf as well?

no rulers involved right?

wut, I have to READ it? uggghhhhhhhhh pass lol

>>4203314
im not a master on perspective, but i recommend finishing both of these, thats what i did at least and i wasnt able to rotate boxes in my head until i finished them. now i can do that stupid "rotated boxes" exercise from drawabox from my head in 5 minutes. i went with the book first and then did the drawabox lesson. absolutely no rulers, its all supposed to be freehand. even if you have a problem with straight lines now after completing these resources youll draw them with ease

I wish this guide existed a couple years ago when I completely stopped drawing. I had definitely felt like I lost my way and thought I had given up on art.

>>4203314
>still talking about grinding
ngmi

Huh

>>4203548
I panicked for a moment there before remembering I saved a pdf of it as soon as this thread was posted.

>>4197159
im pulling the guide off. i dont have energy for this board, i feel like a complete idiot here most of the time. i tried. im happy someone found my rambling helpful and maybe someone else will. the pdf link is still available above so if anyone wants it just download it, i wont delete it.

>>4203553
u new to 4chan?

>>4203548
Whew! Glad I saved it, then. See you dipshits in art hell, I'm off to make big gains!

>>4203554
no, ive been lurking for a long time, just posting anything was a big mistake. not gonna lie im not the kind of person that can deal with this

>>4203553
>>4203548
thanks for making it in the first place anon, I really appreciate it

>>4203558
I'm sorry this website sucks. People here are always going to be monstrous and shitty no matter what, and it's a sad state of affairs. If there's a positive takeaway from all this, you now truly know this place is a real shithole, and staying here is only hurting your development as a person and artist. You can safely fly free, anon.

>>4203553
WHAT
GIVE ME A COPY OF IT YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE YOU CAN'T DO THIS TO ME. YOU'VE HELPED ME SO MUCH

I know how you feel, but you can't do this.

Where the fuck is the download?

Someone give me the fucking copy. You can't do this. You said a link is above, but there isn't one anywhere. I can't make a copy of it on google docs because it's apparently been deleted.

OP, you can't fucking do this.

op please reupload this you are a hero we don't deserve

Why would you do this? You know you're fucking right. You know in your god damn heart that these people are fucking nobodies. You literally did a fucking case study in your doc that points to good artists drawing from imagination and having inspiration.

Why the fuck would you let them win? The moderators need to do their job and ban people who drag down the people on this board and provide a negative "culture".

>>4203553
Hey OP do you have a pdf copy of "Clothing on Figures"? I could not find it on the artbook thread.

How do you draw from imagination if you have aphantasia

>>4203579
>>4203577
>>4203575
>>4203570
It's right here >>4202143

>>4203570
its on my mega no worries the link is above https://mega.nz/#!9NFXyCTY!2rDIlufxrwJpu49dhCHpd-54sPB0VDADsc7NunfNED8

https://mega.nz/#!9NFXyCTY!2rDIlufxrwJpu49dhCHpd-54sPB0VDADsc7NunfNED8

https://mega.nz/#!9NFXyCTY!2rDIlufxrwJpu49dhCHpd-54sPB0VDADsc7NunfNED8

https://mega.nz/#!9NFXyCTY!2rDIlufxrwJpu49dhCHpd-54sPB0VDADsc7NunfNED8

>>4203581
idk i just think i need to take a break from ic im a big pussy. i know i shouldnt be upset that someone argues with me on the internet (lol), no need to ban anyone. im just 2 weak for this its probably because im a woman. ill lurk or post anonymously for now and this board does help me anyway a lot so thanks guys

>>4201873
Who are these artists, anon

>>4203589
awanqi, dude that created oyasumi punpun, jodiemuirart

>>4203587
Post nudes

>>4203587
No fucking way. I'm a man and I completely agree with you. I think the board culture of /ic/ is fucking toxic and not a good place for learning AT ALL. I don't think it's a fucking insurmountable demand that a board meant for improving the art skills of everyone on it try to foster an environment where creativity can flow.

You are right and you better not fucking doubt yourself. I wish I could talk with you more. Every single art community I have been a part of and nearly every single artist I have met has been a gigantic unhelpful piece of shit until I read the guide that you wrote. When I was first starting, I had someone on here literally tell me to "just quit". That was the "advice" that they gave me. You're better than them by miles and you'll only improve unlike all the disgusting retards that browse this god forsaken hell hole.

>>4203609
Most subtle post for "O-OH GOD A FEMALE? PLEASE TALK TO ME" well done

>>4203615
Yes, I knew an encouraging post like that would be interpreted this way. The reason I said I was a man was to indicate that it isn't a "feminine" trait to want to avoid confrontation. You aren't "weak" for being in touch with your emotions and giving a fucking shit. I don't give a fuck what gender the person posting is if their ideas are well put together. I'm fucking gay anyway, retard.

>>4203587
show your tits

After you just bluntly say it outright it seems so fucking obvious. Thanks OP for opening my eyes

>>4203623
It actually is a feminine trait, but why do you conflate feminine traits with weakness? Of course you are a fag, why else would you attack the concept of femininity.

(t. also a fag lol)

as a male,

i think that traps,

are straight

>>4202710
where's the file???
Did you delete it?

>>4203548
>>4203551
>>4203555
>>4203564
share!

>>4203990
>>4203991

Thanks god I've found it.
>>4203586
>>4202143


>>4203587
n-no
try to format it in an e-book and sell on Amazon.

>>4203587
Join LAS, we have a higher girl ratio there

>>4204129
whats las

>>4204000
Can you share or tell us where to find it?

>>4197159
>>4203553
What a fucking PATHETIC attitude, get the fuck out.

>>4204285
Haha fuck, I'm on mobile and didn't see the link

can someone please link the cube website that was in the google doc?

>>4204294
>>4204285

>>4204265
LAS/DAD thread >>4198720

>>4197159
Just read everything. You nailed it, it made a lot of sense and really resonated with me. I'll follow your guide.

You really, really should write a beginner's book based on this.

A mix of it with Keys to Drawing + Perspective made easy + Gesture Drawing would be the best beg book ever.

>>4197159
What's a good guide on the other side for using references? I see people using a single image of a subject for their drawings.

>>4197159
if you're still here thank you OP

>>4204291
what's going on here?

>>4197159
I appreciate all the effort OP but the reality is beginners don't use reference ENOUGH. Trying to skip to the level of drawing everything from imagination while knowing little leads to people spinning their tires on plateaus, NOT studying too much.

There are skills more important to sharpen that will have a greater impact on your capacity to draw and create that have direct carry over to drawing from imagination if you choose to practice it.

Simply drawing what you see well is priceless, you use the skill/knowledge from that in everything. This will make you "good" at drawing for the most part and in the eyes of other people.

Secondary to that is learning how to USE references to design figures and compositions to go past just drawing what you see. There is nothing wrong with using one reference a jumping off point and using other references to alter it to fit your idea and make it yours. This is what most professionals do because its so efficient, and by doing this you are also using the inventive parts of your brain you use in drawing from imagination WHILE learning more about your subjects. Win/win.

Learning to drawing from imagination is harder, requires even more repetition and is entirely dependent on the knowledge and skill that you have developed by observing things and drawing them. If you are a beginner, you do not have much knowledge to pull from. This is why you study or "grind". Even when you can draw from imagination decently, you still need reference to make the most out of the idea.

IMO the best way to begin to learn how to draw from imagination it is viewing it as drawing from memory. Ontop of drawing a figure from observation, draw it from memory alone afterwards multiple times. This directly trains your long term memory of the subject and ability to visualize without reference. Id recommend being atleast decent at drawing what you see before taking time to do this though.

thank you very much OP, your contribution is one of the reasons I keep returning to this shithole.

also, show tits next time geez

>>4205325
But this isnt a guide for beginners, literally the first paragraph says its for people that have been grinding for some time already.

>>4197159
>Sorry, the file you have requested has been deleted.

What happened, OP?

Does anyone have the document saved?

>>4203587

Op, in the parlance of my homies, you are a pimp, a baller, and a G. Thank you very much for your excellent guide.

>write something obvious and simple
>uhh s-sorry guys I have to take this down I can't handle the stress

Are all women really this solipsistic? Do you think that every little thing you do is a big deal? You didn't do anything important, you are not important and this thread was okay until you started acting like a victim. Of course, solipsism and being a victim, two biggest women traits. No wonder men see your gender as a disposable sex toy, you just can't do anything right.

I will translate all of this stuff so our stupid people in my country can get any slightest idea at least

Thanks for the guide op, it summarized what I have been thinking for a long time now. It was important to me.

>>4203558
How do you lurk here and not figure out that breaking anonymity is a bad idea?

>>4206579
This board just got a 12 year old banned from Twitter because they were jealous /ic/ is a shithole.

>>4206586
she was 12? Wow she was really great.

>>4203587
Damn that sucks, just know your guide really helped myself and others out, we really appreciate it.
>>4204291
You're complaining over free, good information thats still available. You have the pathetic attitude

>>4204298
>>4203587

Honestly I don't draw from imagination and I'm not stuck in reference. I just use tons of reference though. I don't find it hard to gather tons of reference at all, it's everywhere.

>>4197159
>see thread
>click
>everybody is praising how informative this doc is
>decide I wanna learn something today
>Sorry, the file that you've requested has been deleted.

>>4206586
Really? dam that kid was tlaented what pieces of shit.

>>4206586
That wasn't a real 12 year old it's fine it was just a larping faggot

>>4206586
Absolutely based, their fault for breaking twitter rules while displaying their age in bio to garner followers. /ic/ did nothing wrong.

>>4197321
>Believing its ideological

It's vestigial as a product of Euro grammar and phonology being garbage and forgetting to include one, it's an unironic oversight because the gendered versions are unironically less useful.

Look outside the eurosphere and even Chinese has a better solution, since their pronouns are
>他,她,它 = he, she, it
BUT you read all of them aloud as tā, so you are ALWAYS correct when speaking about a third person thing if you're speaking out loud and use it.

>>4197159
Post your work.

>>4209854
They already did you fucking moron.

>Its for people that cannot draw anything without a reference and dont do any drawings from imagination.
OP has successfully managed to fool a bunch of morons. The job of an artist is to see and translate what see into something new. Using your "imagination" simply means be creative. To imagine a world that you see through your eyes that a commoner cannot see. It doesn't mean poof something from thin air onto white space.

When you were playing pokemans as a kid you used your imagination to fill in the blacks of all the attacks the pokemans were doing despite the sprites having no movement to them at all. You imagined with your imagination the fight scenario--if you can have images in your head at all. But you still based your imagination off a starting point which was what was in front of you. A point of reference. You still needed reference to have that image in your head.

I'll give OP credit for a well written document as that's rare to see on /ic/. However, it's idiotic to completely dismiss the core reason of drawing which is seeing and translating.

>>4197159
It's pure shit, it doesn't say anything new and is just repeating the same shit that was said like 9000 times

>>4203553
OP you should realize that people today are consumers, they want to consume products. They do not want to make art. Even the idea of becoming good so you can go pro is a product, it's like having shiny hair from buying the right shampoo. They don't like your product because you didn't sell it, you didn't package it the right way, and probably because your product is not what they wanted. But it's free so someone wants to take it anyway because why not, just like people take the same shampoo in hotel rooms.
This is art now, your imagination does not matter, your expression does not matter, love for art does not matter, it's all about making a product and then shilling it. You are talking about making love on a board for aspiring pornstars. You understand what I mean? Even /ic/ which seems to be a more authentic place is actually just as infected as everything else. Look at people constantly shilling Proko, Marco Bucci, etc. unironically this is why people started hating Loomis and saying he's a meme or they started attacking Bridgman for the scribbles. Why get that product when you can get the new, shiny product that isn't really that true and tested but is much better advertised? This is what it is. Some people realize how this works and they become businessmen, everyone throws "become a brand" around as if that means having a style or drawing always the same genre of art, ti doesn't mean any of that. Some people realize this and they take that path, and they "make it". And /ic/ will worship them and hate them at the same time because this is part of their consumer lifestyle, you get the product then you love it, you hate it, you talk about it until another, shinier product appears.
Your intention was commendable if it was genuine and you weren't just seeking attention. but sorry you can't compete with the verified sellers.

>>4210097
>unironically this is why people started hating Loomis and saying he's a meme

You must be new around here. When we say "loomis" we mean general fundamentals. It's a shorthand, all encompassing word to generalize a broad idea. Needs more loomis means needs more fundamentals. We hate his books but not his message.

>>4210100
>when "we" say
lmao you can't even make an argument without showing your loss of identity
Who is we? Proko subscribers? No, people here actually started spreading that the old books like Loomis or Bridgman were bad and outdated. At the same time they started shilling Proko and other YouTubers. If you look at people's recommendations to beginners now they rarely even mention Loomis, It's just a meme now. They recommend to watch YouTubers. There's a fucking Sakimichan tutorial stickied in a drawthread somewhere, ffs.
"You" don't want to learn shit, you just wanna consume tutorials.

>>4210112
You really are a newfag. Loomis has been an internet meme since the mid 2000s back in the CA hayday.

>>4210125
Shit man, you're right. You must have been there in the mid 2000s and saw first hand how the pros on CA.org studied figure drawing from Proko, and Loomis was just a meme. Man that is some real Mandela effect I got going in my head.
Why are you still on /ic/ again? You have been at it since the mid 2000s, you are a professional now I imagine?

>>4210137
Vilppu was widely available back then and was shilled the most while proko was still at the atelier in his diapers, newfriend.

>>4210148
>while proko was still at the atelier in his diapers
That was the joke, retard.
Artists would recommend loomis before they started recommending their own tutorials. It was the most common recommendation on figure drawing. That or Bridgman. You don't remember that because you're a /beg/ groupie who can't get enough of Proko's dick, but when artists were actually working with art and didn't have interest in selling tutorials, and you asked them for shit on learning to draw figures, they would tell you to download Figure Drawing For All It's Worth.

>>4210165
What point are you trying to make here?

>>4210184
That this is not a community for artists who are trying to learn art, this is a place to shill youtube channels, gossip about youtubers, share porn and astroturf your own shit, oh and making feels threads because you still don't understand what it means that you have to become a brand but you keep trying to make it as if you were a creative person.

Artists have now become merchants and entertainers, so books made by artists to learn art are not good anymore. People identify with the shit they consume so much they will do everything they can to take down what they perceive as competition. You see this everywhere, console wars, apple vs. windows, this vs. that. People just can't stand that someone else isn't on their side, because it's just how ingrained marketing has become into their heads.
This is really just fanatical consumerism at work, and my example of people shitting on Loomis to promote their favorite YouTuber was just an example of what is going on, it's not even the main problem with this board.
Every spark of discussion about art, art resources, art techniques, art that has meaning, or anything that is actually art or about art will be violently rejected and derailed into uselessness because there is no product to sell or celebrity to worship in this kind of discussion. This is simply not the right community for art, and sadly there are almost no places left where people actually give a shit about art as a means of expression. Everyone here is a hardcore fast food gobbler or someone who gobbles hoping to become the guy who sells the shit. Or just a straight up shitposter.

>>4210097
>>4210245

op here. you're right, i understand 100% what you mean, i can't really argue with you. the truth is the guide was never intended to be useful for any type of clout (forgive me for the word choice), but then it is impossible for anything here to not be perceived as related to money. I had and still have a pretty naive attitude towards art, which is what causes the main "clash" you described. Like you said the board has a strongly consumerist approach and thus everything posted here will get "filtered" through a very narrow lense. The guide literally a mashup of my random thoughts on inspiration and motivation, and therefore its just useless for many people here that are focused on a constant flow of easy to consume "signals" that can be either judged as sellable or unsellable. I just posted the wrong thing in the wrong place, thats it, i didnt understand the purpose of this board correctly which i can blame only on my poor judgement. I wasnt whoring and i truly regret posting my work in the comments because i didnt and dont want the attention. Someone on this board even said i should guard my anonymity better which is ridiculous to me as i never shared any personal info here or on my social media (which surprisingly *is* available to see for everyone on many accs posted here daily). Im ok though, just enjoying making my shitty scribbles and having a chill time with myself. I just wanted to have buddies to talk about drawing but looked in the wrong place. Thanks for an interesting insight anyway anon, got me thinking about lots of stuff.

>>4210397
Different dude, you can still have buddies here, the other guy may have some points but is also acting a bit like a crab. True, art has a more consumerist approach, but this site is one of the last havens where I feel doesn't get effected by this new wave of bullshit.

Sorry my reading comprehension isn’t great. Is this screenshot I uploaded a pdf of the original google doc or something else?

>>4210397
dont give up op, beyond the sea of slugs there are still ones who pursue the same romance you do and you have helped a lot. sparking interest in even one person is a great feat and i am glad you had the guts to do it. maybe ill do the same one day

>>4211190
yes this is the first page of the original google document

>>4210397
>I just posted the wrong thing in the wrong place, thats it
That's not it. Your failing is that you keep coming to this thread to metapost under an identity. You literally could have just posted this thread and leisurely watched the different replies and maybe engage with interested people about your theories but you chose to have a meltdown and start blogging because /ic/ acts like /ic/ and now you've lost all face. Suggestion: stop coming here until you've grown up and learned a) to stop giving a fuck about randoms on this board or b) not to make threads that you can't handle.

Don't feel forced to make some long musing reply to this post, I'm just going to hide this thread and hope you heed my advice. Christ

>>4210245
>this is not a community for artists who are trying to learn art

Exactly this. /ic/ is trash. If this were actually a place where people wanted to get better we'd have more than a beginner thread and an anime thread. The rest is shilling or complaining about people better.

>>4197305
>I am much better than that >>4197221
pyw

>>4211697
God what a cunt. This place is literally an online community. This isn't random, it is a dedicated board and it fucking sucks that it can be so bad. You're the type of person to think that being alone and only caring about yourself actually gets you somewhere.

>>4197159
Hey OP, for some reason I can’t access the file.

>>4214133
I cant access it either

>>4214133
Its deleted, theres an archived download upthread

What a thread...

>>4214133
pls look for the mega link above, the google doc is deleted and pdf is stored safely on my mega acc :)

>>4214816
im not even good enough to consider taking this advice but thanks for making it OP

>>4197159
>shits on study
>while actively using terms like foreshortening, gesture drawing and vanishing point

This "guide" sucks ass. Your cubes didn't even improve. I hope this doesn't fool retards and they continue to study.

>>4215584
They didn't even shit on studying? They just said you should do both.

This is probably bait but it's shit like this guy that makes me hate this board.

>>4216057
>They

>>4197159
what happened to guide

>>4216313
read the thread before posting

>>4216057
You are correct, but using subversive language makes you sound like a retard, giving that guy more credibility.

>>4209996
Anime source for that gif?

>>4197159
>how to cripple your art quality for social clout

>>4216540
no

>>4217644
OP BTFO

>>4197269
I can smell your engrish from here my dude, holy shit learn to spell

I translated all of this stuff
thanks for your effort. original writer

but i just wonder it actually helps because. i am still learning and never tried way farther

>>4202143
>>4197159
I really like the advice in this guide hopefully I can improve myself. Thanks OP

>>4197159
Why's the doc dead?

>>4219818
>>4216540

>>4199012
>>4199041
I echo this.
Didn't know I wanted to read it so much until now.

>>4219858

Here: >>4203587

polish people are so smart

>>4219891
Nah, the Noble book!

>>4199041
>>4219858
Poster of pic here, I have an epub of it I've uploaded if you are interested, there are some quite interesting chapters in it. I think it can be converted to pdf with Adobe, but I just use Sumatra PDF to read it

https://www31.zippyshare.com/v/AbA4hqmX/file.html

>Be stuck in study hell for the longest time
>Read document
>Explains my situation perfectly
>Read through it further
>Aphantasiac due to a childhood brain injury
I always thought if I worked really hard I could overcome this. I don't think I have ever felt so inadequate in my whole life and the sudden realization of NGMI, broken dreams and a wasted life just hit me hard. I feel like utter shit. Time for me to end everything and say goodbye for good.

>>4219818
because this board is full of crabs and shitters

>>4219926
I lack the ability to visualise too and haven't given up. There are other ways to create art beyond drawing what is in your head. I approach it systematically by adding layers to things and considering them one step at a time in place of having a vivid mental image I am trying to get to. You can write down notes and use key words to impel creativity in other ways as well as combine a series of smaller drawings into a composition.

I also find that while I cant visualise, I am able to dream and write down my dreams in detail sometimes. There is also that point right before falling asleep when I can see some level of image, but it is more or less always a blank void

>>4219818
In the words of OP
>im just 2 weak for this
>its probably because im a woman

>>4197159
I can't access the file anymore since it's been deleted, but I would have been curious to see what it said.

First off you need reference to learn how to draw whatever you are not sure about drawing otherwise you will only to be able to rely one what you already know. Yet, at the same time, I think it's also about learning how to construct in order to draw. Once you've learn how to do that it becomes much easier. That way you don't have to be a slave to reference since you will have already learned to draw whatever you had reference for.

For example, I had a really hard time drawing humans before. So I would spend a really, really long time collecting reference for any pose I needed. Unfortunately, my ignorance of anatomy showed whether I had the reference or not. Now that I've learned construction and, extensively, practiced drawing from life it's definitely been easier. I have a much easier time drawing things I have never drawn before and I can break down my reference way better.

This makes it easier to draw things from different viewpoints, as well. So, ultimately, learning to draw and developing an extensive visual library is the most important thing you can do.

>>4219955
I found the PDF.

>Part I: Signs that mean you’re Stuck in Reference.

I can totally relate to this part. This happened to me, too. Yet, I think it's because you are, literally, in the middle of learning. Take this statement:
>Your style is somewhat inconsistent and/or hard to recognize.
Yes, because you are still in a transition period. You are learning and getting comfortable so of course your 'style' is going to be unstable. Once you keep drawing your style will mature as you become more comfortable. I mean who goes to college and can write a senior thesis during their freshman year?

>Kim Jung Gi
In order to even get to that point do you know how much practicing from life and photos he had to do? It's pretty evident that he slaved away at drawing from ref and life before he can start even drawing from 'imagination.' I think that at point he's relying on his visual library and memory to even construct his drawings. He learned how to draw/construct and I still think that's still the most important thing rather than drawing from 'imagination.'

You can't just do that. You have to build up your imagination first in order to really be able to draw from it.

>>4219955
Its a relatively worthless essay by a beg repeating standard /ic/ memes about drawing from imagination:

>Why can't you draw from imagination?
>You are grinding fundies too much
>How do draw from imagination?
>Just learn gesture, construction and perspective (fundies)

The biggest red flag is that he puts doodling from imagination above studying from life in importance to learning. If anything, most artists in training don't study enough. If you can't draw what you see very well then you're in no place to be worried about how good you can draw from imagination yet.

Were there any similar advice document posts like the OP made?

>>4218352
wow thats really cool! :o

>>4219892
lmao

>>4219896
thanks!

>>4219926
i have no experience with any of this but i think ive seen some people saying that you can overcome it?

>>4219952
yup, to be specific i got followed to discords and called names and just didnt want it on my personal google account anymore because i thought maybe it wasnt that safe, the mega link is up so its all the same.

>>4219955
if youre still curious you can see it and judge for yourself https://mega.nz/#!9NFXyCTY!2rDIlufxrwJpu49dhCHpd-54sPB0VDADsc7NunfNED8

>>4219965
i get your points, theyre totally valid, but i thought i made it clear the guide *is* written from a position of a student that is very much in the process of learning and it is supposed to help people that are still learning as well. i still agree with all you said of course

>>4220014
dude i never said that, of course you shouldnt put doodling from imagination over studies!

anyway just chill people, like you all said im a student and this is just my rambling, i really dont want to fool anyone with my unmatched wisdom. and the reason im trying to "defend" the guide isnt because i feel attacked or something, rather i just want people to try and get some positive stuff out of the guide instead of just dismissing it as crap because i put a lot of work into it

also if someone sees this whole comment and just says "stop writing essays to defend yourself" - i really dont know how to respond sorry

>>4220404
no idea, but if anyone knows and wants to share that'd be awesome

>>4197221
Blog?

>>4220488
instagram.com/zuzannapx its just doodles

Okay so far this doc sounds very assuring to me but it doesn't mention one thing which it probably don't think matters. How much does the starting out age and growth apply to this?

Doc is down. Does it really sound as /beg as other people say?

The way people make is sound is like some shit that I would have wrote 4 months into drawing. If you're curious of what that looks like (and want to hear me ranting about why I think learning anatomy is a meme) I could upload that document if you want. Could be a more entertaining read.

>>4220819
Yeah do it, OP deleted hers because she's a little bitch

>>4220934
why is everyone so mean on this site lmao

>>4220963
4chan attracts anti social people and rewards anti social behavior

>>4220819
No, it restored my fucking faith in art. >>4203587 read it right here

>>4220963
>>4221082
Maybe she shouldn't have deleted it like drama queen. Why delete to keep on posting the MEGA? Why not delete the MEGA too? Because OP is an attention whore, that's why.

>>4210097
Hmm interesting post but unfortunately the length is too vast for me to consider viewing this text
>>4203553
that's a shame anon. I'm sorry this board is a toxic hellhole. I wish we could enforce some new rules here to make the useless crabs leave

>>4220014
>If you can't draw what you see very well then you're in no place to be worried about how good you can draw from imagination yet.

I agree with this. If you don't know how to properly translate the reference into your work then you way more to learn. The last thing you should be worrying about is "why can't I draw from imagination...?"

The problem is that when you start drawing and creating art...it's fun. You do whatever comes to mind. There's no pressure. When you become more serious about art/drawing and really start trying to improve...that's when it stops being fun and more like work. A teacher said something really poignant in class one day in particular.

>If you are having fun drawing then you are doing it wrong.

Drawing/creating art seriously is hard work, really hard work. There's a lot things you have to learn all of a sudden. Gone are the days where you could draw whatever comes to mind. Now you are fretting over whether or not what you are drawing is correct. What's even worse you become hyper aware of all of your shortcomings which turns into huge insecurities. Even when you get better you still get insecure about things and worry all to hell if it looks ok. Worse, you could end up hating everything you do.

All you can do is to continue learning how to draw different things, studying from life, as well as living your life in order to gain inspiration.

Also, this isn't to say that in order to be a good artist is to not have fun drawing or creating art. Yet, the kind of enjoyment I get from creating art is way different now than from when I was still struggling to draw a proper face.

>>4220481
>but i thought i made it clear the guide *is* written from a position of a student that is very much in the process of learning and it is supposed to help people that are still learning as well.

I didn't get to read everything so I do apologize, but it just seems that that some of the things that you are pointing out are just like people who are currently just in a transition period. I mean you can doodle all you want, but I think it's way more important to learn from life as well as other artists. At some point you will be able to draw from 'imagination.' If you can't I really doubt it's because you just too hung up from doing 'studies.' Once you have a better grip on things you will find that drawing from 'imagination' is way easier.

I mean, at the end of the day, the most important thing is to keep drawing...and make friends that can help you whether it be possible patrons or people who can help you get ahead. You can still earn while you learn.