/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

You first OP.

>>4194133
Who is even in charge of the sticky? Mods? How would you even get in contact with them?

>>4194133
I've never read the sticky

we can just delete it and just draw instead

>>4194611
lurk moar

>>4194133
Never used the sticky, I found material on my own. I don't think it's bad, but could use recent books that have come out and e.g. NMA stuff. Maybe organize it better. The beginner's guide is a nice basic rundown and both links contain practically the same material I used before I came here. But I think the artbook and video threads are the most useful on this board.

If you want to improve the sticky so much you had to post a thread about it, you should have done a draft first so others had something to bounce off of, otherwise you're just shouting into the void.

You just made me realise that "the sticky" isn't even the actual sticky, here is the last version I had bookmarked:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uwaXKU7ev6Tw_or__o8ARpUb6r2rCZYJGqwSFV9AD98/edit#

>>4194133
alright maybe this will help someone. what i'd recommend based on my own experience

0. line confidence - drawabox and peter han exercises - to stop the chicken scratching

1. "perspective made easier" and perspective lessons from drawabox - to understand 3d form

2. values - im not sure what to recommend here because i got my knowledge from so many places. i think these are pretty solid:

*"figure drawing for artists" by steve huston - pages - Chapter 5 (i STRONGLY recommend this one)

* "how to render" by scott robertson - pages 51-61 and 64-67

* "shading light and form-basics" and "how to shade a drawing" - both free vids by Proko

3. construction of human figure (only after finishing the perspective studies)

- "figure drawing, design and invention" by hampton

- anything by vilppu

- moderndayjames' videos on constructing bodies (just to watch the principles being applied in real time)

section 3 is probably the longest and hardest onle, obviously

4. color theory, color in relation to light

- "understanding color" a free video by blender guru

- marco bucci's videos on color theory - very solid material

- this weird video, i cannot recommend it enough https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk3JhHSkvAI&t=2s

- "color and light" by gurney - only read this after youre done with al of the above, the book is hard even for int level artists, its more of a guide than a tutorial

Posting what Iris Hopp, the FZD alumni and creator of the current sticky told me she would do differently if she'd be doing it again. I think it should be taken into account since she actually made it instead of just talking about it.

>>4194670
Oh yea, I think that's the one mentioned in pic related.
Personally I'd prefer something like a site than a google doc, like this one.
>sites.google.com/site/ourwici/
Yes, the content is more important than presentation, but what use is the sticky if a beginner gets scared off by a 60 page doc and doesn't end up reading it at all..

>>4194699
Some good points there.
One thing I don't like is that it's basically a four step guide into becoming a concept designer.

What if the reader wants to specialize - a future landscape painter doesn't need human anatomy, a future comic book artist may not need section 4 at all.

Pic related is a rough on how I'd lay things out

>>4194699
>not recommending Keys to Drawing/Bargue plates after 0. to get rid of symbol drawing
other then that, it’s a pretty solid list

>>4194133
I think the sticky should remind users to post their shit in containment threads. People still make new threads out of dumb yes/no questions, half-assed drawings and vents, it's really annoying

Bump

>>4195237
i didnt recommend keys to drawing and drawing on the right side fully intentionally, i think these books develop a very flat approach to form that can greatly slow you down and keep you in the „i can xero copy the ref but cannot come up with anything” stage. no hating, im just absolutely convinced about that based on my own experience.

i always found bargue plates highly impractical and problematic and not worth the effort.

>I think we can all agree that the 2013 version of the sticky is outdated and that better resources have come out in the 7 years after it.

If you don't appreciate and respect and learn from fucking Loomis this isn't the board for you desu

>>4195208
>Nosebro was involved
Welp... no wonder the sticky is a steaming pile of garbage

>>4194133
idk but anders zorn is much better for it

>>4194699
>"understanding color" a free video by blender guru
holy shit, I didn't know blender guru did color theory videos

>>4194611
Post some lolis and when you get banned, leave them a message about the sticky.

Before anyone asks, I haven't made it as an artist - but I think it's important the "getting work" section be updated as it is scarce in information. A proper update would include necessary info regarding starting your own business, what freelancers need to know, what's it like working with clients, etc.

http://businessofillustration.com/

This website covers topics like:

>How to price your work
>Starting a contract for illustrators
>Why you should get an EIN#
>Is art school worth it
>What art directors want in your portfolio
etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suWgUvtpGRE

This video covers the fears that come with freelancing and how to overcome then, as you're your own boss. What the life is like, as well as different means of finding work.

>http://www.artistsmarketonline.com/

Get the book, as it provides info on being and working as a professional (even if you're not one yet) - how to have a proper portfolio, what certain markets are looking for versus what they're NOT looking for, etc.

As well as all this - I think we should create subsections that are not super specific, but broad enough for artists that want to work in certain fields and what they should look out for. An artist who wants to work in character design can branch out and instead of just working in game development can also work in board games and trading card games. Someone who likes doing environment painting similarly can be a concept artist at a game studio while also making storyboards for the latest Netflix animation product.

>>4196094
you cant get work if you cant draw to begin with

>>4196108
There are many people here who already can draw but don't know how to market themselves

>>4194133
> that the 2013 version of the sticky is outdated and that better resources have come out in the 7 years after it
Examples?

>>4194133
unless you desire to do literally everything on your own it will literally be impossible to make something better than the big sticky.

>>4195210
cool handwriting anon

>>4196246
drawabox and ctrl+paint
admittedly, I haven't looked at the sticky so I'm not sure if those are even on there
they're probably on the big sticky google doc though

>>4197472
>admittedly, I haven't looked at the sticky so I'm not sure if those are even on there

you probably didn't know that all those links in the sticky have been updated recently too

>>4197472
fuck drawabox

>>4197476
yeah, I personally only recommend the first 2 lessons, I've heard other anons say the same

>>4197472
Ctrl+paint is in the sticky. The Google doc also has Drawabox. Also
> I haven't looked at the sticky
> hurr sticky bad

>>4197687
I'm not OP, I never said I think the sticky is shit, I was only giving examples of new and better resources that I didn't think was in the sticky
but today I did look at the sticky for the first time to make my own study guide, seemed alright if a bit lacking in any kind of descriptions, just bare bones "do this, now this, now this" with a lot of assuming they know how to study the material at hand and that they magically absorbed everything from them on their first go.
it just goes by very fast, and gives the impression that this "journey" to getting gud is a very short, quick, and relatively painless one

>>4194699
I hope you're not suggesting this as a linear series of stages where someone should master one before going on to the other. Line confidence and line quality is a lifelong journey, or at the very least a multi-year journey; the idea that you could expect someone to draw good or even acceptable lines before they've even finished their forst piece is silly. Similarly you'll continue to learn about perspective as you learn about anatomy, you'll continue to expand your knowledge of value as you learn about color, etc. Every piece of the artistic process is symbiotic with the others. If someone writes a new sticky, they shpuld emphasize that.

>>4197926
I don't have the pic with me but proko (inb4) and marshal had the skills of art laid out as a pyramid. You start at the top with like 4 things and then options for skill improvement expand as you go down

>>4195210
1 is the universally neglected thing. /beg/ and /int/ need it the most.

We should elect someone to finally write all this down so it's not just rambling and we actually do something.
Don't look at me, I haven't made it with my art yet.

>>4197241
Thanks sugarbean

>>4197478
As of now there's no more than the first two lessons.
He started by deleting his figure drawing lesson - which was pure shit anyway, but you gotta give him credit for the self awareness. What's left there is really good stuff.

>Just draw

>>4198756
Well that's dumb and Marshall is kinda mediocre anyway and Proko REALLY sucks so why should you believe what they say anyway.

>>4194133
What the sticky needs is to explain people how they learn from an art textbook.

>>4199821
i think they mean chapters 1 and 2 from lesson 1. at least i think these are solid and the rest is very so-so. does anyone have the figure drawing lessons from drawabox? m really curious how it looked if he decided to take it down.

>>4199848
true... for sure the best method isnt to bury yourself under a couple of 300 page books and just read them, this leads to nothing and is super uninspiring. in my experience i didnt star learning anything until i did it this way:
>try to draw something from memory
>shit i cant draw the leg from this angle
>find "leg" section in the book
>read it but really try to understand the rambling
>copy the author's drawings i like to my sketchbhook
>close the book and try to draw again
>now the leg looks better

>>4198878
i did feel like i learned a lot from books on observational books but then after some time i felt like it made me look at things in a very flat, non-3D way and i had to really redefine the way i look at the world ;_;

>>4199906
nvm i found it.

i mean... its not the worst i've seen in my life, but def not the level that should be included in one of the most popular online drawing courses. very stiff and the faces are skewed.

>>4199920
skewed is putting it kindly.
>that profile lol

>>4196050
Based and lolipilled.

Up

>>4198756
You idiot, in that same episode they explicitly mentioned that this pyramid was showing all the lessons they have in order of complexity, and not an actual route where you ''complete'' one topic and then move on to the next. It's like the begs parroting shit aren't even LISTENING to what they hear

>>4202228
chill the fuck out. I haven't watched the specific episode since it came out. God forbid someone forgets something

>>4199848
If you want to make this even needlessly longer to pander to brain-dead halfwits, write the section yourself and ill add it in and give you a spot in the credits

>>4199920
LMAO