/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>4146843
fuck off
go back to twitter

disgusting artifacts

>>4146843
Probably salty because communism (and socialism since that's just diet communism) has failed miserably whenever and wherever it has been applied.

>>4146843
>gotta
>smth
I can smell the tumblr from here. She probably talks like a valley girl too.

>>4146843
That's pretty much the Marxist art manifesto. Funny thing is now fascists pretty much do the same too since no one knows how to make good art anymore.

>>4146843
>proud being mediocre

>>4146843
>meant to be enjoyed
Exactly. I don't like looking at shit. And knowing I made that shit feels even worse.

>>4146843
Not wanting to get good is impossible if you care in the slightest but it's right that you have to become a product to make it.
There are no artists anymore, just people who render the same stupid shit the same way better or worse. Remember when they hired actual artists as designers? Giger or Yoshitaka Amano would never get work if they started today (don't be that smug idiot who posts a random artist who vaguely copies them in 2019) because the rest of the pipeline would be upset.
I saw concept art fags rag on good art stylized the wrong way, then praise a braindead fantasy castle because muh rendering. Like there is one way to make good art, doesn't matter how uncreative and bland the subject. Then they praised art that they should have shit on for the same reasons as before but that art is exempt from criticism because it's old good art that public consensus called good. I see this retarded double think and lip service all the time.
Not even getting started on art outside CA. Fanart and porn lol. Fine artists just teach.
Art is fucking dead.

>>4146843
Honestly I agree.
People make better art when they enjoy making art, hence why people on /ic. who loathe drawing so much they only draw once a week and never complete anything are so stagnant. And art does not need to be technically perfect to be an enjoyable work.
Obviously it helps to learn the proper way to draw things, but if some kid just wants to draw for fun and doesn't give two shits about becoming a pro who cares? That means less competition for you.

>>4146878
>Funny thing is now fascists pretty much do the same too since no one knows how to make good art anymore.
wat

I know I shouldn't even reply to this but... wanting to be good at something is capitalism now?

I mean, really, churning out a mediocre but reliable product is really the best and most common way to succeed in a capitalist system (look at fast food).

Wanting to excel at something is usually motivated either by ego, or a real desire to create something of value, neither of which is particularly motivated by capital. In fact, people who create very high-quality product are usually less successful than those who turn out "acceptable" but cheap product.

I don't even know why I'm responding to this nonsense. They'd probably say wanting to get good grades in school is a product of capitalism too.

>>4146984
Well /ic/s definition of good is anime porn

Tumblr, Twitter and Instagram always act and think in absolutes. You don't have to capitalise on your hobbies if you don't want to. My friend can play jazz piano and speak 7 languages fluently, he does it all for his own fun and entertainment. But the mark of actually appreciating art is to git gud at it. It's okay to suck, its not okay to delude yourself in believing that you can't improve or should improve. Crabs on /ic/ maybe bad but the crabs in these mainstream social media are even more nefarious with their nihilistic attitude.

Perfect example that there are too many people who are into art, indeed.

>>4146843
>being good at things is capitalism

>>4147079
Must be why the Soviet Union churned out so many chess grandmasters. Because of how capitalist they were.

>>4146988
new to /ic/, what's the origin of the word "crabs"? I can kinda infer what it means.

>>4146843
But I enjoy learning, if a monetary goal was the persons intent then they wouldn’t make it far to begin with.

>>4147082
Only game they were allowed to play.

>>4147091
Its the "crab mentality". In short its a sort of mentality people have to drag others down from succeeding. Comes from the pattern derived from crabs when they're stuck in a bucket.

>>4146843
I think this exact attitude is why people are posting completely off topic digital PAINTINGS as "Inktober" entries. Gatekeeping and exclusionary rules is seen as highly oppressive. Even if you aren't even trying you are still entitled to a participation trophy and to identify as an artist. These people are pathetic.

>>4147098
Same here. The whole enjoyment of drawing for me comes with the fact that I'm learning and getting better.

There is plenty of mediocre art that is perfectly marketable and many great artists lived dirt-poor lives. Twitter should die already.

>>4146984
> I know I shouldn't even reply to this but... wanting to be good at something is capitalism now?

no, there is two separate idea in the OP. one, you don't need to be good to enjoy doing. two, you don't need to feel obligated to make your hobbies into business opportunities.

putting pressure on yourself and trying to reach mass appeal instead of following you own taste just so you can make some money out of it, and essentially turning your passion/time to relax/ way of expressing yourself is capitalism.

I personally half agree with it, if you're doing something to relax, no point to put pressure on yourself for doing it the wrong way as long as you get out of it what you seek. but progressing in art come naturally with practice and at a certain point, you will naturally feel the need to experience your art with professional standards.

>>4146959
>Giger or Yoshitaka Amano would never get work if they started today
Amano is a huge inspiration to me, and I was just thinking about that recently. Lots of professionals who got into the industry even just a decade or two ago wouldn't be able to do shit pitching their skills to the current market.

>>4146984
They mean only getting good at art so you can monitize it is capatalistic. What they mean is under capatalism you are encouraged to make money so even fun hobbies are turned into money making prospects. They're not saying don't get better, but they're saying if you're only doing this for money re evaluate some things

>>4147119
ahhh, that makes sense, thank you

>>4147091
From the idiom "bucket of crabs". Allegedly, if you put several crabs into a bucket, if any of them desides to get outside, the others will pull it down. Same with figurative crabs. They can't draw (you can replace it with some other skill like singing or programming or woodcrafting, it would still fit) good and discourage others from getting better.
>>4146843
At first I was like "sure, if you're just drawing because you enjoy to draw and treat it as a hobby, why not, no need to stress yourself". And then
> A capitalist lie
It's something an Atlas Shrugged antagonist would have said. How can someone be so braindead their thought process copies Ayn Rand's boogeymen?

>>4146988
Based Fuegoleonposter.

>>4146843
I kind of agree. It does not apply to IC because they all want to make it, but I see younger discord artist being meme'd into wanting to be proffesinal artists. They just like doodling for fun and never improving, but the art community pushed "not taking critique = bad always" so hard that they always get critiqued. In some discords even the worst artists want to do commissions. They're surrounded by artist who make a living selling merch, commsions, and they want to do that or are pushed to do that, you could be an artist when you grow up!". Very rarely do they learn the harsh truth until they graduate from an overpriced art school, in which all they did was stagnate, and they learn the harsh world of fan art.
In discord servers I have to change the harshnes of my critique for hobbiest, meme'd into working, or wants to make it fully.

>>4146843
This is the result of fat acceptance. How should we call it? ngmi acceptance?

>>4147166
>Foolish NGMIs being meme'd on... But I'm not like *them*, pshh! I am working very hard, so I will obviously make it. Ohh nice! The new tutorial by GMIdream.com came out! How to render chipped toenails... Only 500$ for priceless feedback from a real industry pro... This will surely get me that dream spot at chingchong mobile games. I can already taste those delicious unsalted peanuts...

>>4146843
>beg fag who doesn't want to grind and earn his place

what else is new

>>4146843
It's like the revere crab. Bring others down by being positive

>>4148808
Still a crab.

>>4146843
but drawing and painting is about projecting your emotions, toughts and ideas into a visual medium, you could not conceivably be able to use tools that are not part of ur body to accurately represent your inner self without some sort of practice or study to get used to them
anatomy, gesture, perspective, they are actually not 100% necessary, but in the grand majority of cases, the ideas one wants to represent need those to actually be able to be made into a picture, people want to make good things, and you need education for that

>>4146843
just because you want to be good doesn't want your motivation is money. Why wouldn't I want to be good at what I love to do

>>4146843
show the name, he needs to be publicly humiliated

>>4149120
agreed

>>4148808

Let me tell you of the midnight ride of Crab Revere!

>>4147136
>>4147154

Ok, look. Here's the thing. Everybody has to earn a living. That is a fact of life, EVEN in communist countries. In the depths of the Soviet system, people still had to work, earn money, buy food, buy goods, ETC. That is not a product of capitalism, that is a product of LIFE.

If we were all in paradise, we could do whatever we wanted all day, but since we're not, we have to do things that either contribute to, or exploit, society, in order to make money. And the more time you have to spend on making money, the less time you have to do the things that you really want to do, like make art.

That's why artists try and monetize their skills, because if you can get paid to do what you want, it's better than flipping burgers all day.

If art is your hobby, then disregard this. If it's your PASSION, then you will either figure out a way to make money off of it, or become a hermit living in the woods and making art with whatever art supplies you can scrape together.

>>4146959
>Giger or Yoshitaka Amano would never get work if they started today
Why?

>>4146959
>Art is fucking dead.
Giger went to to school to be a commercial artist, Amanos first job was in animation (he was such a GMI that he got a job offer on a class trip). They are thoroughbred businessmen/commercial artists. They "industry" never took a chance on randoms from the "art world".

>>4146988
>7 languages fluently,
is this even possibel i really want it

https://twitter.com/bookavid/status/1178721182377545729

>>4149293
> african. assistant editor @ entangled, books, activism, screaming, bad memes & pets.diverse writing tips http://patreon.com/bookavid {they/them}

>>4146843

Why is this discussion even happening? It's absolutely subjective and you guys know it, you're just finding reasons to be mad and sound better than other people.

If to enjoy creating art you need to practice hard, then it's ok. if you enjoy doing stick figures for fun, it's ok too. not like it's anyone's business. If you're aiming to monetize it or not, that's your option.

Did you know? You're free to do as you like, it's not like you have to be ashamed of enjoying stuff if you're not hurting anybody. My brother does stupid terrible doodles for fun, he hasn't improved in the last 5 years cause he's not in for the skill, he's in for the fun of it. Me whoever, I consider visual art my vocation and it has my primary focus. I don't censor him, cause I don't need to do it to feel better. he's good in the stuff he actually focuses on. I encourage him, cause it's something that makes him happy.

>>4149169
>the /beg/ulars are coming

>>4146959
I bring you a gift, my young schizo friend: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Use it gratuitously when you have another episode.

>>4147125
I'm doing Inktober digitally for my participation trophy.

Are you perchance doing it for the first place trophy?

>>4149290
Its hard but not impossible. Will take time though.

>>4146885 + everyone else
retards misunderstanding basic arguments once again.

it's targeting the people who want to draw sometimes on top of their other hobbies but feel like only real artists are allowed to do so-- that unless you're going to make money off of drawing eventually, you should never do it at all.

use your brains

>>4146843
>never improve you fools!
misery loves company OP, dont fall for this.

>>4146843
great, now the normies are appropriating JUST DRAW

>>4149302

Because they're characterizing a desire for excellence as a symptom of capitalism. It's disingenuous, reddit-tier hogwash.

>>4148808
>>4149169
>>4149305
I fucking love this board

The virgin /ic/ who draws boxes for ten years and agonizes about being shit vs the chad anime copy artist who's fine with being bad and actually improves instead of hobbling themselves

>>4149608
> chad anime copy artist
if that's a chad, i rather stay a virgin.
anyway, there is a balance between constant improvement and contentment with one's current skill. ideally you want to grind just hard enough to know what you're doing, while having fun and producing new works.

>>4149610

Nobody on /ic/ is having fun

>>4146843
hes right though, welcome to clown world.

>>4146984
>wanting to be good at something is capitalism now?
anything that they want to demonize is compared to capitalism

>>4149622

On Reddit, everything is either the fault of Capitalism or Boomers. As soon as we have socialism and all our parents are dead, we'll be in paradise.

And if we're not in paradise, it's because our parents ruined everything and it was too late to fix the situation.

Whatever happens, it's NOT OUR FAULT!

>>4149622
Imagine still posting this after multiple anons who actually understood the tweet explained it already. Your agenda is showing, idealist.

>>4146984
I, somewhat, see their point in that the mentality that things are only worth doing if you are valuable at them is rooted in capitalist philosophy. The modern concept of what we consider valuable, in general, is rooted in capitalist thinking. To do something for the pure enjoyment of it, and not have to struggle to produce something of value or something "good enough" (ie. good enough for the market/industry/etc that sets the standards and allows us to profit off of our work, after all, if we are to receive money for the what we produce, that is considered the highest tier of success), is kind of programmed out of our brains in favor for things we can turn into careers. So, people think that they have to be godlike at anything they do, or create a business out of any hobby they do, just because it's what they were told they were "supposed" to do, instead of just being able to keep something as a hobby for enjoyment outside of a career.

>>4150232
Corporate thinking was fine when it only affected the high spheres, but now everyone needs to think like a mini corporation to get seen in the first place. Social media is a marketplace for human beings. "You are a brand" is horrific, and it doesn't just affect art.

>>4149184
But the OP tweet was talking about hobbyists, not people who have PASSIONS for art and want to make it.

Maybe coming at this from a different hobby angle will help you retards understand where the tweet is coming from. Say you enjoy singing, like most people do, along to your favorite songs. Now, say, you're not very good at singing. Maybe you're tone deaf, but you still enjoy singing along to those songs when they come up or you play them. Now, someone comes along and tells you that you shouldn't sing at all because you can't hold a tune. It shouldn't matter that you're not good at singing, because you enjoy it and do it in you free time. You're not trying to make a career out of it. You, perhaps, COULD be good at singing if you took lessons and trained your voice, as other people who are very passionate about singing do. But, you just find it fun to dabble with here and there, you don't want to dedicate yourself to it. If it was your dream, you could have the hopes to perhaps become a professional singer. But, it's not your dream. You just find it fun to sing with your favorite songs. This isn't to say that you don't have other dreams or activities that you dedicate yourself to, because you probably do. Singing just isn't part of that, it's pure fun for you. Some people feel this way about art, not all of us because we're clearly dedicating ourselves to it and have some kind of goal relating to it, but not everyone is like us and not everyone has the same outlook on life or art as we do.

>>4150269
You're absolutely right. The truth is that we aren't in a true capitalist state anymore, we're in a corporatist one (a global corporatist one, at that), and it's affecting every aspect of our lives. Art is part of culture, so naturally it will be very obviously affected, as our culture is now shifting into turning people into conglomerates. I recently gained a lot of attention on social media, and immediately I'm consulted into turning my art into a brand and trying to profit off of it as soon as possible. I feel like there's something incredibly wrong with that.

>>4150313
When I realized how fucked up this was and what it meant to fit into this system I went offline. That was the tipping point for me.

>>4150313
that's just capitalism, anon, american ideology is what made socialism into a dirty word, art flourishes when you remove the constraints of market forces

>>4146843
>t, rich bitch who's gonna be begging for money as soon as she's out of college

>>4146878
At least fascism gave job opportunities to artists, hell one of Hitler's mistakes was going to Porsche and Boss instead of the cheapest functional option available.

The far left is the death of every unnecessary job. They only fund media when it works as propaganda. As soon as they can't lose their seats in the local government artists are the first people in the street.

>>4146843
>that one really harsh classical art critique book written by an English professor
and i wouldn't have it any other way

>>4149587
Are you fucking retarded?

>>4150968
>being this fucking delusional
fucking burgers are the most retarded people on the planet

>>4146843
if you can't make money with art, why live?

hobbies are for people who work in cubicles

WE.ARE.ARTISTS

>>4146988
damn that manga page really spoke to me

>>4146843
if you remove the bullshit about "muh capitalism", it's unironically true

>>4150232

You know who had time to paint/write/compose for pleasure in centuries gone by?

Effete nobility. Most people were too busy to indulge in those activities merely for pleasure. Most people NOW barely have time to do that.

>>4146843
weird how the tweet is right and /ic/ is wrong for the first time
I don't think this has ever happened

>>4151001
Idk I found it funny.

>>4146984
>churning out a mediocre but reliable product is really the best and most common way to succeed in a capitalist system

This

>>4153885
that comic is actually taking the piss at the "creative genius" as if being creative implied being retarded and unreliable

>>4146843
It's true though. You don't have to be good at something to get something of value out of it. I suck at fire emblem but still get every game because I enjoy it. If you learn to apply this mindset to other areas of your life, you'll find you can suddenly start enjoying things a lot more and be happier as a person.

The tweet isn't saying you should never strive to be better at something or that trying to improve has no value. Just that it's not an obligation for the things you enjoy. Let people have fun even if it's not how you want to do it.

>>4151635
It is funny but people who take it seriously will make things worse for themselves and others, such is the fate of all good humor online.

>>4146843
But he's absolutely right. The phrase:
"Destroy the idea that you gotta be good etc. etc...."
is precisely that: a capitalist lie.

ignore thread
IGNORE THREAD
hngggggggggggggggggggggg

no NO FAWG
YES YOU CAN STRUGGLE A LITTLE AND (EVENTUALLY) EVEN ENJOY BEING A PROFESSIONAL EVEN THOUGH I WORK AT A COFFEEE SHOP FOR 300$ EVERY TWO WEEKS AND LIVE WITH MY PARENTS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

sorry op that image made me mad >: (

>>4155292
where is that from?

>>4146843
I think the point of this tweet isn't that you don't have to be good at anything ever and mediocrity is fine, the point is that you should be allowed to enjoy the process of learning a skill without stressing out about money and not being as good as your peers and it's true. A lot of people avoid learning anything new because it'll take a while to take that skill to a level where it can be monetized and that's a stupid fucking worry to have, yet it's encouraged everywhere.

>>4155319
Miles Mathis

>>4146843
Lmao, sing offkey, tonal music is a music of relationships where each of the 12 pitches have their own "color" in relation to a tonal center, that's the language of music, its what gives it its meaning musically, how it makes you feel is subjective. this is akin to listening to a foreign language and not understanding it and critiquing what it means. The other arts are similar.

>>4149290
I'm fluent in 4 while never trying to, it's probably easier than what people make it look like

>>4146974
Not to mention that the quality of art always goes down when the artist is completely focused on making money. Case in point all of the digital fanart pornography in this board. If you try to create something that sells, and practice nothing but the style that you've seen get sold, you become a hack. And for sure Capitalism has a hand in that but I think its mostly based in human greed and general laziness.

Capitalism is only tangentially related to quality of art. 90% of richest and/or most popular artists are hacks who do not deserve what they have and are not even remotely close to the top level. They did not get wherever they are on the merit of their own work, they did it by kissing asses, sucking dicks and pandering.

Only a person willing to abandon everything on their road for perfection can be considered a true master and a very big chunk of those people are relatively poor.

An amateur bound by the deception of inherent value of their art (one of the biggest fuckups of western capitalist society as far as culture goes) is nothing but a paypig existing only to get milked by corporations and aforementioned "successful" fakes.

>>4155699
Quality also goes down when you get consistently 0 likes and 0 money.

Sure, hobbies are not meant to be your career by definition.
If you want to dedicate your life to mastering a discipline like drawing/painting however it would be nice to be able to make money off of it so that you can dedicate all your time to it instead of only your weekends because you aren't good enough to go professional.

>>4155782
Not him, but people can make art for themselves y'know

>>4146843
Why are they so resistant to improving themselves?

>>4146843
Criticism is not just useless but also discouraging
If anyone ever comments on your art, tell them to go fuck themselves
Do only things that make you happy
If you are unhappy with your current work, you wil put in the effort to do research and find out how to fix it yourself
If you are happy, then nothing else ought to change

>>4155802
>just learn this language with no intention of using it
>just keep that novel in a drawer forever
>just practice those scales on the guitar alone in your room forever
>just dance alone in your room forever
"Do it for yourself" is such a stupid statement I can't even. Of course you do it for yourself, I don't understand why this somehow implies not getting any achievements. Art is a language, it's not fishing or jogging. You are meant to show your art to others, that's why it exists. Otherwise you might as well daydream and make the pictures in your head for free.

I wish there was a way to never delete anything online. So many of my favorite artists and writers delete their accounts it makes me sad :(

>>4149608
i'm both

>>4155826
>"Do it for yourself" is such a stupid statement I can't even.
> You are meant to show your art to others, that's why it exists.

How to recognize a soulless husk of a bitch that hates what he is doing and subsides solely on money and attention on social media.

>>4155857
So every artist, musician, director and writer you admire is a soulless husk who was only interested in money and success. They obviously didn't do it for passion if they dared seek achievements.

>>4155861
Being able to earn money from what you are doing and being able to enjoy the process itself instead of attention are not mutually exclusive.
You can bet your ass that every artist worth his salt has literal thousands of pieces both finished and unfinished that serve absolutely not purpose (even as practice) other than to satiate desire to draw some more.
It is not uncommon for musicians to have whole albums worth of finished or almost finished work just sitting there either.

I am not even shitposting. If you can't sit down and just lose yourself in the process for no reason other for the sake of it then you are better off quitting.

Being bad or mediocre is totally fine. I personally wish to obtain a higher degree of drawing language.

I still enjoy XKCD and other shitty comic art.

>>4155663
This. I'm working towards fluency in 3 right now, but knowing portuguese, I could learn italian and spanish pretty easily if I wanted lmao, like 2 years for each.

>>4155857
He doesnt hate what he is doing. He doesnt do it at all. He doesnt make art. No artist thinks this way. Its the same idiot who says women only wear makeup/work out to please men or people only wear expensive clothing to look cool.

>>4155868
>If you can't sit down and just lose yourself in the process for no reason other for the sake of it then you are better off quitting.
I draw 10 hours a day for the sheer pleasure of it but getting 5 likes for a piece I spent 5 days on is depressing. I don't care what your ideal of a true artist is, it feels like shit and over time you just think your passion is worthless. Even the best of the best needed an encouraging context.

>>4156470
If you can't enjoy the process just because it does not net you a bunch of likes on social media then you don't enjoy the process.

I've been drawing daily for 3 years before ever showing a single piece to anyone. You are just an attention-whoring sociopathic bitch who can't do shit unless there's a line of people ready to praise you, pat your head and beg for you not to quit.

Evidently, despite how contradictory it may sound, this is also probably the main reason why you get only 5 likes for days worth of work.

>>4156517
I quit all social media months ago because I was tired of how depressing and pointless it was and I still draw 10 hours a day every day. I am sad because I will have to find another career and take time off drawing which is what I wanted to do all my life.
But somehow I secretly I don't enjoy drawing because you say so and being disappointed because nothing I draw except naked girls resonated with anyone makes me an attention whore.
People here love to preach so much.

>>4156470
>>4156532
Care to show as a glimpse of what art made by a person drawing 10h daily for years looks like?
Absolutely anything would do. A study, one of those finished 5d pieces etc.

>>4156517
Oooohhh you're must be good, post your soulful works. I doubt your drawings are not shit tier beg.

>>4156517
You need some cock in your life, man.
Like what >>4156470 said, some people like validation on their work-- myself included. I want to hear what others think about whatever trash I make and I [partially] seek out others and see if they like the various drawings and illustrations I come up with.

And do what >>4156557 suggested; lets see what you're making.

fuck capitalism god i hate this society so much. fuck fuck fuck

>>4146843
I agree with it, however, this is useful for the average person (and only to the average person), not someone who has a passion or lots of determination to make art, and therein lies the problem: For those kinds of people there is little choice than to sell their art, because how the fuck are you gonna draw/paint/sing/write/act whatever you want if you don't have the basic shit you need to live?
You can't make art if you're on an empty stomach, or without electricity, or a fucking house. The only way you can acquire the basic conditions needed for you to make art is to buy them (via money) from someone who has them, and this means you'll have to sell your time and effort making art so you can have money so you won't just die, but then you have no more time/effort to make the art you want, so ain't that a pickle you find yourself in... Maybe, if there was a way for people to have these basic conditions met and assured for, they'd be able to do not only better art, but art for themselves, not at the whims of whoever has money. If only there was a solution for this conundrum....

>>4146843
Ya its a gay tweet, be a fucking renaissance man if you can. YOLO.

>>4155829
I've deleted my account once before but made a new one this year since twitter is the only place left to be, maybe your favorite artists did the same

is there an way to be an leftist and not be an embarrassing faggot like what is presented in that tweet?

>>4158636
>Maybe, if there was a way for people to have these basic conditions met and assured for
Like drawing coom fanart or screeching your pronouns?

>>4161324
See what I meant? >>4158636 This fucking bran dead ass sonic the hedgehog communist fallout 4 fan-fiction description of gabbidalism is how every mongoloid twitter/reddit leftoid speaks.

How be an leftist and be a normal person?

>>4161328
No, I'm saying communism, anon.
>>4161346
>How be an leftist and be a normal person?
I dunno how you can be a leftist while also trying to be "normal", by most definitions leftists are against the current state of things. Seems like a you thing, mate.