/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>4124416
relatively easy, if you can pick up a notebook you can probably pick up water colors. They are roughly the same size and weight.

>>4124420
Ok smartass, I should've known better than to ask /ic/ for advice.

>>4124421
there is a cozy thread for art supplies >>4123310

but in all seriousness, I got some water colors about a month ago, you have to really loosen up and just let it happen. Don't be so concerned with making precise colors and keeping shit from mixing or flowing together. You can get some easy wins from just letting it flow.

Also paper is VERY important, get a watercolor block pad at least 300g A4. Get 2 so that you can paint on one while the other dries like a ping pong double buffer.

Get a big brush for washes and a smaller one for painting details.

>>4124416
Yes they are easy and in fact usually suggested as the go-to learn painting. If you're a beginner though you should avoid japanese/korean watercolors, since they work differently, and are usually made for rice paper. Try MeiLiang or Van Gogh

>>4124427
I've been watching james gurney videos and trying to pick up on his process, and he says that watercolour is similar to gouache, he starts with a pencil sketch then does a quick wash of underpainting, going into the shadows after that and then painting the lights on top or something like that.

>>4124432

There is some bullshit in your post, sir. Painting with watercolors is an entirely different beast from painting in opaque media. If you want to learn how to paint, start with gouache, then oil. (Or acrylics if you must but I personally hate the stuff.) The principles of watercolour are much, much different. Meiliang and Van Gogh are both student grade; never buy student grade water colours, you want your watercolours as richly pigmented as you can get. Artist grade is more expensive but your work and learning curve will be vastly different and much, much better. Also watercolour paint lasts a long time so cost isn't that much of an issue with them.

>>4124416
I got one of those. They're pretty comfy to use back when I'm still into watercolors

I recommend painting on a slant of some kind. I find it's way easier to deal with pigment pooling when it all flows down to the bottom edge. When I started painting on a flat surface, I had a bit of trouble getting really consistent big washes.

>>4124448
How many colours did you get, the big one with 36?

>>4124444
>buy other stuff
>does not say what to buy
ok

>>4124951
Lord fourquad doesn’t lie

>>4124416
I remember reading that those watercolors aren't good if you're planning on using them for color mixing because the colors get muddy if you do. Japanese watercolors aren't really designed for color mixing.

If you plan on color mixing you should get western or Russian watercolors.

>>4124951
He said artist grade, look up artist grade brands you numbskull...

>>4124474
The smaller one, one with two columns

>>4124439
No. You don't paint lights in watercolor. Goauche is an opaque medium watercolor is a transparent medium, there's similarities in between the two, because goauche is watercolor paint with more pigment or for some, chalk or other opaque things added, but the techniques and headspace are different.
Watercolor is working from lights to darks, with the white of the paper being the brightest whites on the page. You should not use white watercolor paint unless you mess up, if you want to do traditional watercolors.

>>4124961
>Japanese watercolors aren't really designed for color mixing.
It astounds me when beginners make statements like this.

>>4124416

Technically those aren't watercolors. By all accounts they're more opaque than western watercolors and behave differently, but I haven't used them myself.

In regards to your question though, I've used both gouache and watercolor, and I can say that watercolor experience is probably more useful for gouache, than vice-versa. You can paint with gouache in a watercolor style, at least when starting a painting, but not so much in reverse.

Watercolor is all about letting the white of the paper show through for highlights. Of course, you can go in with an opaque white for highlights, unless you're a purist. It's all about transparency and layering colors.

Now, I'll say one thing that's slightly less frustrating than gouache is that watercolor is much less likely to bloom or lift off the paper if you get water on it than gouache is, so you're free to work a lot wetter, because the pigment absorbs into the paper.

Overall I'd say watercolor can be easier or harder depending on the effect you'd like to achieve. If you want precision and detail, you'll probably have to plan ahead much more so than with opaque media, because it's much harder to work light over dark, than dark over light with watercolor.

They're a great medium to start with, and the set you mentioned is the one I recommend to people when they can't afford tubed paint. You can get as much saturation and richness of paint as you would with tubed paint, but for a fraction of the price.

Also, don't listen to those saying they're more opaque, they aren't. I own them along with a ton of other tubed paints (Winsor & Newton, Daniel Smith mostly) and they behave the same. The less water you use the more opaque they'll be of course, but that goes for any kind of watercolor paint. Pic related are some old thumbnails I made to test the set.

One tip I can give you is to use more paint. 90% of beginners think watercolors have to be super washed out, but that's not the case. Use enough water to get the paint flowing, but use enough paint that you'll get those rich colors.

Another tip, mix paint on the paper. As in, lay down your color, then while still wet add in touches of other colors to get nice color variations.

Lastly, check out citizensketcher.com, the guy now works with oils, but has tons of articles and a bunch of advice on using watercolors. He also has a book The Urban Sketcher, which is fantastic to learn the basics of the medium, whether or not you're into urban sketching.

Good luck!

>>4125153
based, thank you

>>4125153
Thanks for the advice, I'm trying to learn the watercolour process to get to understand how people like pic related and Dave Rapoza adapt it to clip studio paint. I'm really kind of torn between using oil/acrylic and watercolour/gouache styles to approach my art with.

>>4124416
it's the hardest medium.
learning it though...
everything else will be easier.

with subtitles this guy has some good info
https://youtu.be/UZtK2iLbWvM

>>4124444
Student grade is fine if you don't want to make a huge investment or just want to try watercolors out, I have a set of Cotman's that I bought a few years ago and they work very well and aren't too pricey.

Anyone here tried Shinhan PWC water colours? They seem solid and affordable.

>>4124444
if you end up not liking the medium you don't wanna risk spending 10 bucks a tube. Pan sets are good to start with and handy to bring around. I use White Nights when at home and my old W&N pan set with waterbrushes for lifedrawing on sketchbook

>>4125441

You're pretty pathetic if you can't afford a tube of good paint, fellow. Maybe get a job flipping burgers. You don't need a whole set to just try out if you like it and a high quality pigment makes all the difference in watercolor. Also there are differences in price among the artist grade, you don't -have- to get Daniel Smith.... Schmincke's and Sennelier's artist grade for example are fine too.

>>4125153
>don't listen to those saying they're more opaque
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF4fbPeqhDs says it covers up pencil lines.

>>4125445
Schmincke is so fucking overpriced, at least ten bucks for a 5ml tube is daylight robbery.

>>4125731

Schminke is crazy expensive.

>>4125731
youre paying for german efficiency.

most americans like daniel smith.

>>4125782
What about Holbein or Leningrad?

>>4125503

That was really interesting. Seeing the difference between Western and Japanese watercolors really helped me understand how differently they behave.

The Japanese stuff almost seemed halfway between watercolor and gouache.

>>4124451
This tip shows you're inexperienced with watercolor. You can paint with an easel, or flat it doesn't matter that much. Pooling water will fuck you up in either case because it's about water control and technique.

If you have water dripping everywhere and it's not intentional then you're just loading up your brushes with too much water.

>>4124416
don't get this 42 color shit
get a basic palette in tubes and a ceramic dish

>>4124451
>>4126736
dripping water is OK if you paint really wet, you just use a paper towel to pick up the bead when you're done doing washes

>>4125118
The people claiming to be purists will say this but many of the people widely touted as amazing artists across multiple mediums like John Singer Sargent used white in their watercolors, and not just for mixing.

>>4126742
>>4126737
I got this today at a friend's recommendation.

>>4125503
Yeah. They are much more opaque than Western style watercolors. I was going to comment I have many brands including stuff out of China and Japan. Paul Rubens, Schminke, White Nights, Daniel Smith, ShinHan, Mission, M Graham, etc. Basically all the big name brands I have some tubes of and the Kuretaki Gansai are different, the binder is different the pans are gummier and they are more opaque and they do not flow like western watercolors.

The good manufacturers include information about transparency and staining on their websites or on the tube. There's some variation in transparency just depending on pigments. The Gansai are just across the board more opaque.

>>4126742
Not that anon but white gouache for lights is a bit situational. The white of the paper is always a more natural way of doing highlights. When you use white gouache you have to mix it with something warm or it will look too cold. If you're painting something warm or very bright like idk sparkles over the surface of the sea you should use the white of the paper

I like scraping with a blade

>>4125805
The White nights are good but not all their colors are lightfast, and in their sets they have many fugitive colors. Basically all the Korean and Japanese stuff is good, but if you have any preferences for certain pigments they use some weird ones, and some of their names are goofy. They'll use multiple pigments in colors that are usually one pigment by western companies. The regular burnt sienna from Mission Gold comes to mind. If you're not expecting to sell or frame it White Knights are great, but avoid Sonnet.

What is up with some of the pans being gummy and sticky as shit? I'm afraid that the paints will run everywhere and stick to the plastic.

>>4126746
White Knights is great, but just be sure to check what colors you're using if you want to frame anything since many of the colors in the set are fugitive.

>>4126746
if you already got it that's ok. try to limit yourself to as few colors as possible per painting, if you use a color once, use that color again in mixes instead of picking another one

>>4126761
Oh, I just want to learn the process so that I can do the same in clip studio paint. I'm liking a lot of dave rapoza's recent work.

>>4126755
>What is up with some of the pans being gummy and sticky as shit?
check if there's honey in them

>>4126763
you wasted money then since real watercolor has nothing to do with digital apart from painting in layers, which is probably what rapoza is doing

>>4126765
https://twitter.com/DaveRapoza/status/1173063721137999873

xd

>>4126753
It's a style thing. Maybe people who want to be traditional want to avoid white and that's fine they're free to do it. You can even use white acrylic, white ink, you see people like Gurney using white Gel Pens and Gouache. I don't do it myself so I don't know what kind of acrylic people tend to use, but there's some that finish with a nice texture that absorb watercolor so some people use white acrylic for corrections.

>>4126755
They'll probably be fine. Do you live in a very humid area? All watercolors can get tacky in high humidity. I don't think White Knights uses honey. The reason the other guy brought that up is some honey binder mixes will always be tacky to the touch.

>>4126766
Yes anon. But unless he literally sprays water on his cintiq, paints over it with actual pigments he mixed with just the right amount of water, dabs a paper towel on the screen and gives it a pass with a hair dryer, "my exact watercolor approach" means "I use the 'realistic watercolor brush' in clip studio paint and multiple layers"
It makes no sense to learn watercolor if your only intention is to have a digital watercolor look

>>4126783
what do you think of using gouache to do preliminary sketches before using oils for the real thing?

>>4126767
I am not saying you should not do it, I am saying that it's situational.
>I don't do it myself
Do you paint though? Try painting the highlights of a fire with white gouache

>>4126787
Oils won't stick to goauche. Bad idea. You can get the same thing done with medium/glazing and do light washes of oil.

>>4126795
No, I meant like using gouache/watercolours to make mockups of what the final will look like.

>>4126797

James Gurbney does this all the time

>>4126797
sure why not
I'd use digital desu

>>4126802
I feel like using limited palettes traditionally helps improve colour sense and theory

>>4126790
I paint yes. If you think it's wrong then whatever I'm not going to argue with you. I guess you're a better artist than James Gurney or any of the dead famous watercolor painters that used white like John Singer Sargent.

some watercolour competitions wont accept work if theyve used any white gouache.
just use things the way you want to, because the only reason otherwise is to stick to some stuckup traditions.

>>4126853
>I paint yes.
Paint fire with white. Bright fire highlights, sparkles on water. Do the same thing and scrape the highlights with a razor. If you disagree with me, just try it yourself?
>If you think it's wrong then whatever I'm not going to argue with you.
>I guess you're a better artist than James Gurney or any of the dead famous watercolor painters that used white like John Singer Sargent.
Why don't you read the posts before replying? I never said I am a better painter or Sargent is wrong, I said that using white is situational and for very bright highlights you might want to use a razor instead.

Attempts 1 and 2 with watercolours

>>4126787
That's what Jeff Watts teaches and does. In ten minutes you can bang out different comps before deciding on a final piece. Transfer your sketch to the paper and try out different arrangements of tone or color to see what's effective.

Gouache was the graphic designers' choice and fell away when digital and markers became more popular. Wash to kill the white, lay in dark to light, paint highlights over and possibly airbrush to bring everything together at the end. Digital is very similar to gouache, and the dark to lights with glazing is how you'd approach oils.

>>4126924
There's a lot to learn with watercolors that comes with time and experience. One thing to work on is edges. Clean the brush, and use a lightly wetted brush to soften edges. You should try to keep one hard edge and one soft edge in your shapes.

>>4127483
Gotcha

Does anyone use a hairdryer dry their watercolours faster so you can work on the next layer?

>>4128025

I did when I lived in Florida. In California it seems... less necessary.

I think I'm getting the hang of this.

>>4128216
nice work anon, try painting more wet

>>4128278
Wym? I do kinda like my clear forms without blending too much. Also, is using a burnt umber watercolour pencil for the lines viable? I'd like to be able to erase some of the unsightly lines.

Lmao no, watercolours are the hardest for beginners because it requires most planning and thoughtfulness during the process and you mostly can't get out the pigment without damaging the paper. The fundamental principles of painting are the same for every technique but approach is vastly different with transparent medium. All other techniques are more forgiving and give more possibilities for fixing mistakes.
>>4126755
From your set cerulean blue and olive green are mixed with white and will behave a bit differently than other colors, I'd curb their usage if you're learning. Cerulean is especially leaky and will run away a lot, others behave decently.

>>4128565
>hardest for beginners
for full on art painting pieces, it can be frustrating. for color illustration of pencil and ink, its pretty amazing regardless of painting skill. i threw some colors into some brush pens and theyre great for livening up my sketchbook.
when i started though the 8 color set i picked up did not have any white, which tripped me up coming from digital and being used to just click and grab a skin color.

>>4128309
Yes, also ordinary colored pencils work nicely with watercolor for details. You can also use white ink gel pens at the end for highlights

>starting with digital in the first place
LOL

>>4129009
Who are you quoting?

>>4128592
Any recommendations? I've heard good things about prismacolor

>>4129147
>>4128592

What about Derwent?

>>4129337
Unless you pay for the ultra premium shit that costs 5 dollars a pencil, they're all the same. Don't bother buying white expecting to make white lines over your watercolor painting

>>4129374
I got a white gel pen for that.

>>4129378
I mean in general they're not opaque at all and they don't behave consistently. Some colors rewet nicely others do not.

>>4129381
Oh okay, i just wanted a soluble liner pencil so i can fuck with lines i dont like from the drawing.