/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Pencil and paper is all you need

>>4123314
Stop talking.

>>4123314
imagine being this retarded

>>4123314
Pyw

Digital art is better.

>>4123310
all i need is my tablet, my stylus, and my smudge guard :)

Canson XL pads, I like the blue mixed media ones since they're so versatile. Plus, they're cheap.

I got some prismacolor graphite pencils, but they're shit because apparently they switched production from Murica to mexico. Gonna get some staedtler ones off amazon to see if they're any better.

I got a set of staedtler colored fineliners and they seem to work well.

Thinking about getting the 36 set of copic sketch markers, I got a cheap shitty set off amazon and they're fun to work with but they're definitely lower quality.

>>4123518

it's terrible.
its photoshopping + fake pencils.

>>4123310
i've got a shitload of copics and i never really used them until recently, problem is they're all going dry
i'm broke and can't afford to get new nibs or ink refillments of these. are the cheap store brands at hobby lobby/cheap joe's/michael's gonna do me any good? or are they just gonna do me dirty

>>4123310
I mpstly do digital but when I feel like doing trad I use either charcoal on newsprint or microns on bristol, I love microns so fucking much.

>Paying for finite art materials that make a mess and take up space and run out once theyre used up
Bro thats kinda cringe

>>4123310
I got a Pentel pocket brush recently, I can't believe I never tried a pocket brush before its kind of life changing.

I use two Phive CL-1 LED Architect Desk Lamps for my desk, they are very useful when I need the light to be bright and white.

Use a Rotring 800+ pencil, it's my favorite mechanical pencil I've ever owned, I like how you can hide the tip.

For paper I use I use HP premium 32lb 500 sheets. Great paper. Will buy again.

>>4123695
>caring what another man does with his living space

bro that's kinda gay

>>4123310
Any recommendations for 5000K LED lights? I don't have much natural light in my house and will be using watercolor and gouache.

>>4123310
I have a multimedia sketchbook and a tin of prismacolor soft graphite pencils. In which I feel bad in using and just use a simple mechanical pencil. Lately I've only been able to draw in a ball point pen. Sometimes I carry my Sakura/pigma/prismacolor inking pens. I sketch a few ideas at work and then go home and paint it digitally.
Which makes me feel bad because I haven't touched my oil paints in years.

>>4123672
I'm told once that soaking the tips in rubbing alcohol helps. But then it ends up being like painting with water color.

>>4123651
>36 set of copic sketch markers
go for it, I use cheap markers for sketching, but copics are best for blending and details

>>4123672
if you are going to buy new markers you might as well just slowly buy the refills as you need them. Figure out which ones you use most, and just start buying the bottles. Mine were drying up from usage, and it felt really limiting. Buying the refills was incredibly liberating.

>>4123698
>Pentel pocket brush
I'm too heavy handed for the pocket brush, any tips?

>HP premium 32lb
yea the heavy smooth paper is legit. Basically any digital copy/print paper is amazing

>>4123675
>microns on bristol, I love microns so fucking much
I'm also in love with microns and fine liners. The staedtler are the best, better than sakura. I tried the pocket brush and dip pens, but never got used to it

>>4123750
>>4123767
thanks for the advice anons
might try the thing about the alcohol with a couple of them, but otherwise i'll look into replacements. appreciate it dudes
also i agree about the dip pens, tried to use a g pen for awhile and it was just too unwieldy for my heavy gaijin hands. microns are the shit

>>4123310
yeah I've bought tons of shit over the years. digital is just an ipad pro and xp pen deco pro.

but traditional is just mmmmm

i have like more disposable shit but the picture is i guess my quality stuff.

been getting into fountain pens lately, just got the pilot falcon in super extra fine and i love it

Watercolours > copics

>>4123789
I can't stand water colors. They take forever to dry, and I feel like I have a lot less control with the colors and laying down everything

>>4123798
> They take forever to dry
you're using them wrong. Watercolors are versatile and beloved BECAUSE they dry fast and are easy to use. You're putting way too much water in them. What paper you use also an affect on dryness

My hauls from the last few weeks
>ohuhu markers 100 set
>zebra G-nibs
>pentel clic eraser + hi polymer eraser set
>tachikawa t-25 pen holder x 2

regarding the zebra g nibs, they don't fit any of my holders. I have the yellow deleter holder, the tachikawa holders, and even those cheap Memory comic pen holders- the zebra g nibs don't fit any of them. What gives? I thought the japanese holders were compatible across brands. My zebra marus fit all the holders.

Any recs for a zebra g nib holder?

>>4123879
I'm pretty sure only those deleter nibs are made not following standard nib specs. Are you sure you got a zebra nib? Even tachikawa nibs

Whatever fits your hand the best to be honest. Or just get the japanese made nib holders from the same merchant so you get nib that will hold that nib

Or just make the holder yourself.

>>4123767
I don't really have tips, but the one thing that works for me is to hold the height of the brush the same. I my arm a lot while focusing on keeping it the same distance from the paper. It is definitely a tough tool to use but I think the payoff will be tremendous in the future.

>>4123798
>They take forever to dry
Get a blowdryer, set it to the lowest setting, and wave it at the paint from at least a foot away.
>I feel like I have a lot less control with the colors
Only because you haven't put the time in to learn how. And, you have no patience, if you think watercolors take too long.

You don't have to use them, and just say "I don't like them". But don't claim to know them, when you clearly don't.

>>4123314
As an artist, I don't disagree, but for myself, I like having a wide variety of options, and picking one that fits the painting. But I'm guessing you're cartooning, and for you, pencil and paper may be all you need. For everyone else? They can decide for themselves.

>>4123310
My favorite thing these days is bristol. Love drawing and painting on it. I'm doing studies for an oil painting, and it's just pure enjoyment. I got some pads on sale last year, and I'm gonna look for another sale, and stock up.

The Meeden brush case -- I was going to buy another one but they only come in black. I like Meeden's hog bristle flat brushes and the Golden Maple line of sables, even the wolf/horse hair brushes are usable as filberts.

>>4124061
When this brush case is propped up you can easily rest a 9x12" canvas against it, so it makes a great tabletop easel.

>>4123879
If you want you can use the G nib with a fountain pen and ink cartridge. They're available with the Jinhao 750x on ebay. They also attach to the 450x but that's much heavier. In theory it prevents you from having to dip them all the time but you'll be using different ink as well.

Which gouache brand would you guys recommend between the following? The ones available locally here are Royal Talens, Daler Rowney and Schmincke Horadam, which is like twice as expensive as the other two brands.

>>4123798
1 tube will last you longer than 1 marker, with a better price ratio.
you have a choice of brushes, pick whichever point and thickness you like.
cover large areas in a matter of seconds.
multiple colours available, but can easily mix the primaries for just as much range.

worth learning imo.

Hi, I was referred here from >>4124416
Anyone used this particular brand of watercolours before? I want to try out watercolour after painting with gouache, and it's available at my local art supplies dealer.

gel pens. pretty much all of them, needle tip is best.

>>4124675
Schmincke is expensive but it's great. You only need a few colors so I'd go with that. Shitty gouache is really shitty, it's usually not opaque enough, doesn't dry well, and really frustrating to use. Winsor Newton is pretty good too and it's not as expensive as Schmincke but if you at least want to see how good gouache should behave I'd go with Schmincke as a first buy.

>>4123879
That sounds like you're doing something wrong or those are bootlegs. I have T-40 and the pack of Zebra nibs that came with it. I've never heard anything about nib holders like that not being able to hold Japanese nibs. All i've heard about the T-25 is that they're much thinner and more suitable for some people for maru nibs.

>>4124067
If you want a flex nib at that point you're better off with one of the Noodler's flex pens like the Ahab (beware the smell out of the box).

>>4124675
Avoid Daler Rowney for anything except their synthetic brushes. Schmincke is preferred but isn't cheap and Royal Talens gouache isn't great. I would recommend buying online if you can since in the case of art supplies the markup can be 200% or worse. Can't go wrong with Holbein, M Graham, or Winsor and Newton. Caran d'Ache if they're cheap, Schmincke if they don't break the bank. There's a big different between good tubes of artist paint and student grade which require more use of paint for still less saturation.

>>4124709
It's a very different kind of watercolor than regular Western watercolor. They don't act like regular watercolors, they lift very easily, they can't be layered that well, they're made with different materials so they might dry with a glossy finish. It's paint made for Japanese paintings and not the Western watercolor method. They're not meant to really be mixed which is why there are so many colors. Personally I think they're a bit of a meme and not that versatile because you get mud very quickly from mixing. It does well with normie feminine artists because it's bright colors out of the box.

>>4124749
What would you recommend for watercolours? I was thinking of getting pans so that I can bring them overseas if my gouache tubes can't cut it.

>>4124749
Ever since amazon retired their free international shipping I've been avoiding buying from them, which is why I was looking around my local art dealers.

>>4124709
Gansai Tambi doesn't mix like Western style watercolor. It's better used as Chinese painting practice.

Just get Holbeins or Rembradts first because they're cheap.

>>4123672
Also a lot of paper will absorb copics more hence drying them out faster. So maybe try limiting their use to marker/copic paper?
I just buy the refills though

>>4124766
I've traveled fine with a pan set. Tubes you should probably check in a bag so you don't have to deal with search, make sure they're in the same place and with a data sheet. You can try bringing some white gouache up to 100 mL (I have a 40 mL Holbein tube and that's too big to travel with, probably could get some 15mL tubes for travel convenience). Carrying an MSDS (material safety data sheet) to show your shit isn't flammable would be helpful so they don't have to do any questioning or extra searching. Pans in a carryon with a waterbrush and all my other supplies brought no issues.

I use one of those small Meeden watercolor palette boxes (12 half pan size, but you can put more in the middle) and bought a pack of half pans. Looking back, I probably should have bought full pans instead since I don't need more than 8-10 colors at once. I'd recommend getting some artist tubes of watercolor, if you're the Tambi poster. Those are not something you travel with and don't have much of a mixing space. It'll be expensive at first but better in the long run and much higher quality. Start with a small set of 5-6 colors and slowly expand. Or drop $80-100 at once and be done with it.

Something like these colors plus an earth tone (transparent red oxide, yellow ochre, burnt sienna) and maybe convenience green (or swap the red for a quin rose or magenta type color)
https://www.amazon.com/Daniel-Smith-Ensemble-Watercolor-Mixing/dp/B07FB4SPSH/
https://www.amazon.com/DANIEL-SMITH-Extra-Primary-Watercolor/dp/B013TBUGVO/
https://www.amazon.com/DANIEL-SMITH-285610005-Essentials-Introductory/dp/B00WT5VRF6/

>>4124792
There should still be local online shops that are cheaper than art stores.

>>4123310
DIY hardboard panels sealed with KILZ and primed.
Michael Harding, Williamsburg, Old Holland, Gamblin oils, in that order.
Flake white I got from Williamsburg because cost.
Escoda hog bristle brushes are great among others of theirs that are great.
DaVinci Kolinski sable brunches are great.
Got some Trekkel brushes today, haven’t used them yet. Also have not used my Michael Harding Dammar glaze medium.
Mitsubishi hi Uni pencils are the best IMO.

>>4123314
he's right you know

>>4124833
I've heard it's possible to use gouache like watercolor, is this true? I've seen James Gurney use a combination of both. If so, what would you recommend to supplement what I have now? (My pyrrol red is watercolour because i didn't read the amazon description properly, fuck me)

Anyone got pencil case recommendations? Preferably hard, not soft, fabric ones but any will do really.

>>4124898
What do you even need that fancy bullshit for? Just scratch stuff with rocks or rub some dirt on a wall you fucking technofetishist

>>4125150
Yeah if you use it in washes you can use it transparently. Gouache and watercolor are very similar in composition, it's mostly the selection of pigments that is different. Cadmium yellow is opaque, watercolor or gouache. Ultramarine is transparent. If you add water to an opaque pigment it won't be as opaque.

>>4124766
From most websites that sell supplies you can buy empty pans and tubes. Fill the pans and let them dry and you saved a lot of money.
Don't get half pans because they're annoying to pick up color from, get full pans.

>>4125221
Palomino blacwings or Mitsubishi uni pencils, both are smooth to draw with. Mitsubishi is just cheaper than palomino

Everything else is just okay

>>4123672
>problem is they're all going dry

I'm surprised. I had my copics sitting on a shelf for over a year; broke 'em out and started using them. Worked like new.

>>4123798
>They take forever to dry

Compared to WHAT?!

>>4125150

You can, but gouache lifts off the paper in a way watercolor doesn't, so you'll have to be careful with that. That was my biggest problem with gouache, controlling the amount of water on the paper.

>>4125398
What about watercolour wash with opaque gouache on top?

>>4125404

Should work fine. Gurney recommended it if you don't want to use casein like he does.

>>4125409
Any recommendations? People are saying that the Gansai stuff lifts super easily so I'm looking for an alternative, preferably a pan set.

>>4125409
>>4125418
At the shops right now, this is what I picked out so far. Any advice?

>>4125452
Ahh bollocks, I'll put these back and go with W&N. I probably can't go wrong w those

>>4125461
Never mind, they all suck. I'm going home.

>>4125418
>>4125461
>>4125452

Oh, sorry, I was AFK.

I'm not familiar with that brand. I don't think I'm in a great position to be dispensing advice about specific brands, honestly.

Winsor and Newton is probably a safe bet.

Mateusz Urbanowicz uses Holbein brand watercolors a lot, but he lives in Japan, and that's a Japanese brand, but I've heard the quality is very good. I'd like to try them out some day.

>>4125474
I remember seeing Holbein in one niche store, I'll check there tomorrow, thanks. W&N stuff was really expensive for 5ml tubes, even my gouache was cheaper.

>>4125477

I've heard that W&N is overpriced because they're such a ubiquitous standard, they know they can get away with elevated prices.

Actually I may have misremembered. Looks like Urbanowicz's MAIN set is Schminke, though I'm sure I've heard him mention Holbein as well.

Here's a link, hope it's helpful: https://mateuszurbanowicz.com/tools/painting/

And here's an article by Gurney about his choices for painting in the field.

http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/2014/08/watercolor-in-wild-materials.html

some watercolour techniques dont translate to gouache because it uses larger heavier pigment particles. but watercolour can become gouache by simply adding white or black gouache to it.
>>4125452
shinhan is south korean, while not gansai, they still name their colours differently.
you want brands that offer highly pigmented paint, for what you can afford, thats easy to get. paying attention to whats in the shops around you is good, because you dont want to be stuck needing a replacement and waiting 3 weeks for it to arrive from wherever overseas.
some will say paper matters more than the paint, but i think anything artists quality is the way to go. wn cotman for example cut back on pigment.

>>4125499
Yeah, and I wasn't sure what would be a substitute for a cad yellow, because that shit's expensive as fuck. I'll probably have another look around tomorrow.

>>4125519
Some brands have their own cadmium substitute, when you see (hue) it means it's them making up the colour without using the traditional pigment, which might be toxic or banned. Cadmiums are toxic and some people will avoid them in case their kids or pets get into their paint.

Kind of a tangential question but how do you guys prefer to store all this stuff?

>>4125645
Store what specifically?

>>4125519
In watercolor with how inconsistent the market names are, people tend to refer to their scientific pigment name. The bold colors are solid choices.
https://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/palette1.html

Toxic pigments are primarily unsafe if you're ingesting it or leaving it on your skin. In normal usage, it's fine because it's a much smaller concentration inside the binder of the paint - concerns are usually with children or pets. That said, it's expensive and you can substitute it for other colors. Sometimes hues can be better in that they're safer and may have better lightfastness so hue isn't always a dirty word. Light, medium, and deep should generally have more differences in the amount of pigment in the paint but they're not comparable across brands. Older paint guides tend to recommend colors that aren't used as much today and that are lightfast or fugitive. You'll see colors like rose madder, or reds and yellows that are not permanent recommended a lot. It's good to look up and know the lightfastness ratings of paints before you purchase them. Lightfastness, Transparency, Granulation, and Staining are things you'll want to become familiar with eventually but no need to worry much about now.

I stay away from cad colors anyway because of price and toxicity. I use PY65 (hansa yellow deep) and PY175 (lemon yellow) for my yellows.

>>4125645
I have small clear plastic storage bins for tubes of paint and some inking stuff, cups for brushes/markers/pens.

>>4125907
Thanks for the recommendations, I'll keep a lookout for them.

I just bought a Da Vinci synthetic half inch brush and it started shedding hairs, is this normal? I've half a mind to upgrade to semi goat's hair...

>>4125980
Yeah, it's completely normal to a point. The first time you wash it with water to get the glue out, you should gently work your fingers through the brush to pull out the loose hairs.

>>4125645

I have a Zip up container I got from work that I keep my watercolor tray in one side of, and my Gouache in the other side of. Works pretty well.

My other art supplies I keep in small plastic bins on my shelf that I got from Ikea.

>>4125980
DaVinci is shit. No it's not normal.
Get Princeton Neptune if you're doing watercolor

>>4125645
I mostly work in studios at uni so I have to carry my shit between campus and my apartment.

My oil tubes, mediums, etc go in an artbin like picrel, I have one of those rollup canvas holders for my oil brushes, my palette (the oldschool wooden kind that you see in clipart) and paintings stay in studio racks, things like rags and brush cleaning are free from my school. I also design in gouache and that's a lot simpler since it's water based, I have a small plastic box with all my shit in it including brushes and a small palette plus pencils and drawing supplies in a zipper pouch.

>>4125519
If you need an opaque yellow, everything but cadmium is just inadequate. If you need a transparent yellow there are good ones, but there's a reason why people use cadmium and cobalt so much

>>4126577
I have a richeson grey matters set, but they dont have a half inch flat. The rest work super well though.

>>4125907
Got myself a White Nights 24c pan set at the ol neighbourhood shop, they sell pan refills too so it's pretty convenient. Any experience with that?

>>4126583
the guy that said hardware/tools holders are just as good, i see his point now.

>>4123879
Buying jap art supplies wont make you a manga artist.

>>4126624
Pyw

>>4126614
That's me. That ArtBin thing is great and it looks a lot like a repurposed fishing toolbox. How much does >>4126583 cost? Pic related is 11 bucks.

>>4123789

There are many advantages to alcohol markers. It's foolish to think otherwise, because alcohol-based markers were created specifically to address several issues with watercolors in the world of illustration, and they succeeded to the extent that they supplanted watercolors in the majority of professional applications.

A flat statement of "watercolors > copics" really says nothing.

>>4126625
In this instance, it wouldn’t change a thing. Buying jap art supplies is a weeb thing my man.

>>4126642
Lots of comic artists use japanese pens to ink.

>>4123310
I use Papermate Gel 0.7's and cheap 110gsm sketchbooks from art shops.

>>4126638
Not him but I bought a few markers to see what all the rage was about and I saw only downgrades.

>>4123651
Staedtler is okay, but the jap pencils made in Vietnam or the German Faber-Castell are the best and smoothest. Prismacolor Turquoise aren't bad if you get them for $0.50 or less a pencil. They're definitely not worth the premium of $0.80 or more most of the art graphite pencils pay for.

>>4123767
32# is not that heavy and it's so smooth you can't build up layers easily with pencils. Maybe it's good for markers. I don't find it to be very good for rendered graphite drawings. Maybe it's because I have the laser paper, but it is very very smooth and has no tooth. Hot press 25-50% rag is much better for pencils.

>>4123859
Poorly sized paper can cause them to take much longer to dry. He's probably used paper without any sizing at all.

>>4124040
I don't have a lot of experience with alcohol markers, but they dry almost instantly. Watercolors dry very fast, but it is not instant. Not saying that guy isn't exaggerating dry times, but I think as far as wet mediums alcohol markers dry the fastest.

>>4126829
I don't see how not having to wait 30 seconds / using a blowdryer for 5 seconds is worth having to buy a marker for every specific color when you can simply mix it with watercolor
can you even blend with markers? It just really feels like a really shitty medium

>>4125352
Half pans are fine for painting small. If you have good watercolors they aren't hard to rewet. If you're painting really big you want a nice pallet that has wells that are like twice as wide as full pans so you can fit a 2" brush in there. It's all about what size you're paining.

>>4125387
Tombow and Mitsubishi make the best graphite pencils, and third place goes to Faber-Castell.

>>4126843
Japanese isn’t automatically better and Fabre castle are SHIT.

>>4126624
in the case of pen nibs, its either japanese or german. And the german nibs are more suited for calligraphy iirc.

>>4126626
wow its the same layout. hopefully they arent putting a premium on the art one just because its labelled for artists.

>>4126839
I don't use markers so I can't argue much about them. However, it's longer than 30s and longer than 5s if you're using techniques that are very wet. You are also exaggerating how quickly watercolor dries. If you're doing wet on wet on 300-640gsm paper then you're talking minutes of dry time at least with a hair dryer, and probably 5 to 30 min without a hair dryer.

>>4126638
>really says nothing.
it says i have an opinion, which is just that, an opinion. (shrug)

>>4126844
I've used every big brand of graphite pencils, and I like Tombow and Mitsubishi the best. I don't know why you're saying Farber-Casell is shit either. It's not because they're jap, they just happen to be jap.

>>4126849
>hopefully they arent putting a premium on the art one just because its labelled for artists.
Most likely, the ArtBin is 28 bucks on Amazon, the best reviewed/popular tackle box is about 15, I doubt the construction or materials are premium. I wouldn't be surprised if they just made a deal with a company that makes tackle boxes and rebranded.

>>4126850
>However, it's longer than 30s and longer than 5s if you're using techniques that are very wet.
Sure, but in this case they're being compared to markers. You can't even do anything remotely close to wet watercolor work with markers.

Holy shit some of these are beautiful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yU9ihgm1fo

>>4126887
NNNNGHHHHHHHHH

I know this is gonna sound like a dumbass question but why are watercolor brushes usually very, very long? Is it a balance thing?

>>4126882
I store all my inking stuff in a daisy tool box that was two dollars eighty.

>>4126882
bah. artists are meant to be poor. these companies should stop thinking we want to pay extra for tool boxes and plastic buckets just because theyre labelled artbin and brush cleaner.

>>4126677

The big advantages to markers are that they dry immediately, they're easy to blend on paper, they can be used on almost every kind of paper and you don't have to mix them.

You can photocopy a drawing onto 20lb printer paper and lay down full blended color in minutes without warping, pilling or waiting for it to dry. You can't do that with watercolor.

There are disadvantages to markers as well. You're not going to make traditional watercolor art with them, and they're much more expensive. But for what they're designed for, which is professional illustration, there isn't anything out there better for the job outside of a computer.

>>4126959
>why are watercolor brushes usually very, very long?
they're not, you are just buying long handles

>>4127015
>The big advantages to markers are that they dry immediately
if you lay them down this dry, watercolors dry literally seconds later
>they're easy to blend on paper
how do you blend them? do you need a gradation of all the colors you want to use and lay them down within a second one after the other? it's terrible.
>they can be used on almost every kind of paper
this is not true, the markers I bought go through low weight paper and even bristol. They warp thin paper as well, though not as much as watercolors.
>you don't have to mix them.
more like you cannot mix them. it's a net negative. you cannot water them down for opaque washes, you cannot lay them down thick for a more saturated color. it's literally one color, one chroma, one value per marker
>You can photocopy a drawing onto 20lb printer paper and lay down full blended color in minutes without warping, pilling or waiting for it to dry. You can't do that with watercolor.
you can't, but so what? what you save in paper you spend on markers, why would you use shitty paper anyway?
>But for what they're designed for, which is professional illustration, there isn't anything out there better for the job outside of a computer.
why would you use shitty paper if you're delivering "professional illustration"? I see way more acrylics, gouache or even oils than copics in professional illustration, unless you count sketches like your picture as professional work

>>4127025
>how do you blend them? do you need a gradation of all the colors you want to use and lay them down within a second one after the other? it's terrible.

Alcohol based ink reactivates very easily. If you pull a lighter marker through darker ink it will blend the darker ink into the light. Having more gradations makes it easier but it's not necessary. You can get by with a set of five greys rather than the full twelve, for example.

>this is not true, the markers I bought go through low weight paper and even bristol. They warp thin paper as well, though not as much as watercolors.

They'll bleed through paper but that doesn't matter. I've never had thin paper warp under marker.

>it's literally one color, one chroma, one value per marker

This consistency is an advantage. You can hit the exact same color any time you want.

>you can't, but so what? what you save in paper you spend on markers, why would you use shitty paper anyway?

Because why would you waste good, expensive paper on sketches when printer paper works perfectly well in this specific scenario?

>why would you use shitty paper if you're delivering "professional illustration"? I see way more acrylics, gouache or even oils than copics in professional illustration, unless you count sketches like your picture as professional work

Of course I count that piece as professional work, it was a published cover. Professional illustration isn't just finished, published work either. If you needed fifty color mockups on a concept drawing you weren't going to do it with watercolor.

And for finished work, if deadline is an issue (as it very often is), it's much faster and easier to get that kind of modeling with marker than with watercolor.

Again, I'm not really stating opinion here. This is fact. Markers were invented to replace watercolors in professional illustration, and that's what happened.

>>4127057
>You can get by with a set of five greys rather than the full twelve, for example.
I looked up a set of 5 Copic greys and they cost 40 dollars, is that accurate? You can buy 30ml of Daniel Smith black paint and a high quality watercolor brush with that money. Pretty sure this lasts you longer than all the copics combined and you can make better washes with it.
>They'll bleed through paper but that doesn't matter
If you are drawing on a sketchbook this matters a lot
>This consistency is an advantage. You can hit the exact same color any time you want.
You can buy liquid watercolors or inks. This is what many illustrators do. There is a dropper so you just have to take note of how many drops you need for a mix, and you have consistency plus infinitely more range than markers.
>Because why would you waste good, expensive paper on sketches when printer paper works perfectly well in this specific scenario?
You never specified you were talking about sketches. You even said "you can photocopy a drawing on 20lb printer paper" which made me assume you were talking about a step up from sketches, and you were talking about markers being a better medium in general for professional illustration. Nevertheless, you could just buy cheaper watercolor paper or even bristol board for those throwaway sketches and you would still spend less money than you would on markers, your sketches would look better, and they would be way more archival just in case.
>If you needed fifty color mockups on a concept drawing you weren't going to do it with watercolor.
>And for finished work, if deadline is an issue (as it very often is), it's much faster and easier to get that kind of modeling with marker than with watercolor.
Yeah we all work on deadlines where we can't wait 5 seconds for a watercolor layer to dry, cmon
If you are really so concerned about being fast and efficient, just go digital. Markers are just shittier watercolors and they're only still alive because of marketing.

>>4127057
Watercolors haven't been replaced, both markers and watercolor have advantages
Doesn't Manara still do Marvel covers pretty regularly?

>>4127228
I can't really remember that much "professional" art being done in markers beyond thumbnails and other throwaway stuff

>>4125980
>I just bought a Da Vinci synthetic half inch brush and it started shedding hairs, is this normal? I've half a mind to upgrade to semi goat's hair...
I was reading Homer Watson's son talk about his dad's materials and he said it was normal for brushes to shed in the 19th Century. I like the fact that Meeden flat brushes do a small amount of shedding. W&N round brushes don't lose hairs but the tip still grows dull and uneven...

>>4127250
Keep in mind they used hog hairs not synthetics

>>4127257
It's not normal for modern brushes to shed. The glues they use now are infinitely better, if a brush sheds it's because it's badly made.

>>4127211
>I looked up a set of 5 Copic greys and they cost 40 dollars, is that accurate?

I get my Copics for $5 each.

>If you are drawing on a sketchbook this matters a lot

The sketchbooks I use (which are just cheap Artist's Loft ones from Michaels) hold up pretty well to marker. If I'm really going to go heavy on color I'll just stick a piece of loose paper under the page I'm working on that blocks the bleed.

>There is a dropper so you just have to take note of how many drops you need for a mix

I have a couple sets of Dr Martins (Hydrus and Synchromatic Transparent). They are really nice, but a marker is still much more convenient and easier to work with so that's what I end up reaching for most of the time.

>you could just buy cheaper watercolor paper or even bristol board for those throwaway sketches and you would still spend less money than you would on markers, your sketches would look better, and they would be way more archival just in case.

I don't care about the cost of markers. I already own them, and because they're refillable I'll never have to buy them again so the cost is irrelevant. If I spend X amount of hours inking a piece I'm going to do color studies before committing. Hence the photocopies. And even then you get the best results by scanning inks, flattening them to pure black and coloring a print out (my printer can handle bristol).

>wait 5 seconds for a watercolor layer to dry, cmon

How can you recommend liquid watercolors and in the same post say watercolors take only five seconds to dry? Either way, that's not even close to being true.

>If you are really so concerned about being fast and efficient, just go digital.

But then you don't have a finished piece at the end, you just have a jpg. Where's the fun in that?

>>4127295
>but a marker is still much more convenient and easier to work with
You are doing this on a table anyway, what is so hard about using watercolors if you're just filling in? A good brush is so much nicer to work with than a clumsy marker tip if you are only a little bit used to it
>and because they're refillable I'll never have to buy them again so the cost is irrelevant.
you get a free lifetime supply of refills with each marker? the tips are made of a material that holds a perfect tip forever?
>How can you recommend liquid watercolors and in the same post say watercolors take only five seconds to dry?
liquid watercolors are just as wet as normal watercolors, and hair dryers exist anyway
>But then you don't have a finished piece at the end, you just have a jpg.
You send the physical piece of work via mail to your employer and not a scan? You talk as if markers' efficiency, convenience and drying times were crucial but you stick to traditional when digital exists, do you reason in terms of efficiency or not? Markers don't even look that distinct compared to digital, unlike watercolor.
This is a stage where I don't understand if I am talking to a next level professional and I have no clue, or the other anon is a LARPer from WetCanvas who just collects art materials while parroting what people say on YouTube videos.

>>4127292
The glue only retains the hair within the ferrule. The top part of the hair can still fall out, which is a pain when it comes to round brushes. Plus if you use too much glue you don't have a brush that is very fluid to work with, you may as well be working with a knobby stylus pen. That's what I don't like about W&N oil brushes.

>>4127347
maybe it's normal for oil? I can't even remember last time I bought a watercolor brush that shed

>>4126959
Its usuwlly the opposite, watercolor has short handles and oil brushes have long. Watercolor is often done sitting close at a desk/table while oil is better standing at an easel and usually done at a larger scale, so oil brushes tend to have longer handles so you can paint and work at a farther distance than you would have sitting at a table.

How do you keep the pans in those White Nights palettes from sliding around? I bought the 24 pan set and there's a huge gap in the middle. I'm afraid of the paint in the pans going all over the place if I want to carry the set around.

>>4128222
The palette is probably made so that it'll only hold the pans in place on its own if it's full, but a small dot of poster putty under each pan should solve the problem and keep them where they are.

>>4128222
even if the pans do slide, so what? the paint won't fall off unless it's extremely low quality

>>4127015
>professional illustration
in which case youve got a company footing the bill for the amount of ink you go through.

>>4128360
Professional doesn't mean employed.

>>4128367
>Professional doesn't mean employed.

>>4128367
>>4128525
lets not go there. thats a whole new thread.

>>4128525
"Professional" doesn't mean "job", ie. work for a company. There aren't many staff illustration jobs these days, especially for people who paint with traditional media. Most illustrators are freelance.

>>4126819
>Made in Vietnam
Come on anon

>>4128525
Freelance

What's the best starter watercolor pencils set and how many? For outdoors sketching

>>4124749
Daler Rowney make my fav bristle brushes, and I've used many brand of many different price points.
Their acryolic, artists oils & watercolours are excellent too, I have no idea why you'd diss them. Pete the Street paints with their oils & he's one of the best plein air painters in the world.

>>4129801
my favorite set is arteza's woodless watercolor 24 pencil set. The rest of their products are absolute shit contrary to what art youtube says, except these, the pigment is rich and does melt completely with water. Only problem might be the color range, it has a lot of vivid colors that work for illustration or flower painting, but might be lackluster for landascapes

>>4129801
http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/2014/08/watercolor-in-wild-materials.html?m=1

Why do most stores stock oil, acrylics and watercolours but NOT gouache? W&N literally has a gouache line but it's nowhere in my local stores, they have everything else though.

>>4131634
Add titanium white watercolour to your other colours.
Problem solved.

>>4131634
I think only a fraction of people who buy art supplies have a clue about the craft. This is changing because information is easily accessible, but local shops are also selling much less when you can order from DickBlick etc., so they stock only the basic stuff.

>>4131686
Are you a monster?

>>4131706
Yes

>>4124043
As a faggot, I don't disagree, but for myself, I like having a wide variety of dicks, and picking one that fits my ass. But I'm guessing you're being straight, and for you, vagina and boobs may be all you need. For everyone else? They can decide for themselves.

>I can achieve thinner lines with a G nib compared to a Maru nib

What is this sorcery? Also, what's the best paper for dip pens? Smooth bristol?

>>4131634
Funny, office suppply store near me sells wn gouache, but only their cotman watercolours.

>>4132423
maybe your maru is bent, check if the tines are split

>>4132423
best, yes. but there are alternatives. check out premium laser copy paper. you want smooth but not glossy.

Which youtube reviewers do you trust when looking up paint brands?

>>4132745
I trust Peter draws for pens, but for paints you're better off reading amazon reviews. Youtubers can be too nice if they received the item for free.

>>4132745
None, they're all paid sponsors and they generally want you to encourage buying the stuff they review. Whenever I bought something well reviewed by a YouTuber it was garbage. I don't trust user reviews either because people who review art supplies don't paint. For paints, I just bought tubes from a few brands and settled on Daniel Smith.
If I go on Amazon reviews I look at 1-3 star reviews only to see where's the catch, 5 star reviews should be ignored by default because they're all placed by people who just unpacked the stuff and are on a dopamine rush.

>>4132752
Are Gurney's recommendations good? Also why do plebs like jazza

>>4132753
Gurney is reliable enough, he can probably get away with being more objective and being picky with sponsors. Don't trust internet reviews in general, astroturfing is huge.

>>4132745
How rich are you, and where are you in the world?
You're usually better off buying brands that are made and/or marketed for your country, as they'll be cheaper there. ie. Daniel Smith is very expensive in the UK, W&N is cheap i n the UK, expensive overseas.

>>4132828
this. if youre in canada youre not going to rush out and order art spectrum just because you happened to watch an aussie youtuber do good stuff with them.

>>4132828
Singapore.

>>4123518

>>4132967
search "Teoh Yi Chie" on YT, he is also based in Singapore. He has lots of reviews on his channel.

>>4131686
Nah. This will approximate gouache, kind of. Watercolors won't build up like gouache will. Gouache have fillers that make it opaque, that titanium white watercolor paint doesn't have.
If you think it's the same, I can only conclude you've never used actual gouache.

>>4123310
I Omni Technodraw pencils however, never been able to find anymore of them (I think the line got discontinued).

>>4132459
>>4132423
agreed, I like 32lb HP laser paper (not inkjet paper, which is very absorbent)

What makes M Graham gouache smell so good compared to Royal Talens?

>>4134175
the ingredients, of course.

>>4134191
I love the smell of M Graham and Schmincke compared to the cheapo brands, I think they don't add chalk too which is a plus.

>>4134175
probably honey

>>4127211
>I looked up a set of 5 Copic greys and they cost 40 dollars, is that accurate?
Never buy markers unless you're getting a discount. If you're buying a set of Copics at Michaels, for example, you'd better have a 40-50-60%-off coupon on your phone or in your pocket. Here's a tip: they accept competitor's coupons (even from an app or otherwise on your phone), and Jo-Ann Fabric has 60%-off coupons far more frequently than Michaels does.

If you wanted the Copic Grays set (six markers) or Copic Sketching Grays (five markers and an ink pen), for example, a 60%-off coupon would net you one of those for $19.20 plus tax - about $3.50 each with the tax rate here.

At this very moment, Michaels is offering a 40% off everything in your order-online-but-pick-up-in-store order. Just be careful of items that are already on sale or to which another discount applies (unfortnately, that's also Copics at this time), as you won't be able to apply the two discounts together.

OK, the White Nights 24 pan set works well but it's too large to be portable. Are western watercolour pan sizes universal? Can I buy a portable watercolour box and fit pans from my collection into it?

>>4134366
>Are western watercolour pan sizes universal?
No, they vary a bit in dimension. But you can simply bend the outer lip of the slot inwards so it's a tighter fit, in aluminum palettes of course.

>>4134387
Any recommendations?

>>4134366
theres full pans and half pans. one of the brands does make slightly off dimension pans compared to the others iirc from watching teohs videos, but theyre mostly comparable from what i understand.

>>4134389
Get one from a reputable brand, they cost more but everything cheaper is shit. It's a one time investment anyway as it should last you forever

>>4134395
I don't know any reputable brands that sell empty boxes.

>>4134398
some might, since you can squeeze tubes into pans (WN are the only guys that discourage this). but id wager all youd find on ebay would be meeden, the chinese ones.

>>4134366
nope! White knights uses full pans, while other brands like w&n usually use half pans. This is waht you're looking for:
https://www.amazon.com/Fclub-Empty-Watercolor-Palette-Paint/dp/B0745CYRFW/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=watercolor%2Bmetal%2Bbox&qid=1569603323&sr=8-1&th=1

>>4134398
Schmincke does but it's expensive.
Too bad you said the paints are very liquid or you could have simply pulled out the paint chunk off the pan (maybe try it? use a knife and try to see if the block of paint comes off clean in one piece). If they do come off you can buy a well palette which is much better and stick the pans in there with a drop of water each.
Avoid stuff that is too cheap though, plastic or aluminum, it tends to be really poor quality. The only cheap choice that is also good is ceramic or porcelain.

>>4134410
Full pans are exactly like 2 half pans side by side, but the size of the full pans is different from brand to brand.

>>4134412
white knights paint do not come out the plastic pans, since they are squeezed in by hand. They're not liquidy at all, though, just a bit gummy-ish.

>>4134416
Yeah, the cadmium yellow is a huge offender, it keeps sticking everywhere and making a mess

>>4134416
Get Winsor & Newton.
https://www.jacksonsart.com/winsor-newton-professional-watercolour-lightweight-metal-sketchers-box-set-24-half-pans

A set like this, of full pans, can usually be found second hand on ebay for a quarter of the price. People buy them, use them a couple of times, and sell them when they realise they can't paint.

>>4134461
I meant, or full pans.
I have brand new, vintage boxes of W&N enamel full pan sets picked up for £20.

>>4134398
there's cheap ones like meeden online. the current one i use is one of the prima marketing tins but i threw out all the watercolors after testing them. the prima marketing with case was cheaper than buying an empty palette.

>>4134498
meeden has a grey enamel, I sent mine back

Is Koh I Noor a shit brand?

>>4134461
must be rare. ive seen searching used paint on ebay for 4-5 months now and dont come up with anything but people selling off the cheap shit they bought and realised they cant paint.

>>4135096
Yes avoid at all costs

>>4135118
Took me 5 mins.
First one I saw, on the first page, that was good quality. (UK ebay)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Winsor-Newton-Watercolour-Paints-With-Wooden-Box/183967206556?hash=item2ad54ccc9c%3Ag%3AC9gAAOSwzcpdiNhG&LH_Auction=1

>>4135118
>>4135668
2 mins later, amazing value old Daler enamel tin
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-DALER-ROWNEY-WATERCOLOUR-PAINT-BOX-IN-METAL-TIN/174043434303?hash=item2885cc0d3f%3Ag%3Au3gAAOSwF79diz-Y&LH_Auction=1

>>4135672
"Postage: May not post to ___" well thats why im not getting them in my results.

>>4135699
This one does
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Watercolour-paint-box-W-n/143391193783?hash=item2162c7fab7%3Ag%3AHM4AAOSw7Z5dh6t%7E&LH_Auction=1

>>4135699
And this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Watercolour-paint-sets-plus-many-spare-paints-inc-Winsor-Newton-Sennelier/264475025833?hash=item3d93f0a1a9%3Ag%3AeDsAAOSwT9ZdiH05&LH_Auction=1

You're just not looking very hard, are you?

>>4135096
shit pencils, colored too. bad quality wood, crap pigments. only liked their 2mm lead holders and refills

>>4135931
Based, thanks for telling me what to avoid. I might just buy the White Nights 12 pan box set for portable use as my 24 set is too big to carry around.

anyone have a suggestion for good woodless graphite pencils? i tried kohl i noor and they suck

>>4135706
>anonymous stranger isnt getting uk results in his countries ebay, he must be lying or lazy
ok.

>>4128588
AFAIK all the good Japanese brands for woodcarving pencils have manufacturing in vietnam

>>4136474
Woodcase*

Best brushes for gouache and watercolor? I heard Nevskaya Palitra makes a good kolinsky sable. I bought the Richeson Grey Matters set at Gurney's recommendation and they seem good enough, but I'd like an alternative that's purchasable locally in Singapore as Richeson isn't.

>>4136511
if you get a mop then youve got thin strokes and large washes all in one.

>>4136335
That anon claimed those items weren't available, I showed they are, easily, if effort in searching is made.
You want a bargain? Pull your finger out and look properly.

Recommendations for painters tape that won't gouge me? I'd be using it for watercolor and gouache illustrations. I've used masking tape but find that tends to take some of the paper with it.

>>4135931
also tried their ink - trash, smells like shit. charcoals are tolerable, but in pencil they are awful. acrylics dry quickly in tubes. paper is crap. only decent shit they do are leads and holders, i buy this only when i don't shop online bc it's only widely available brand in my shitty city in middle of nowhere in eastern europe

>>4137153
Have you tried washi tape

>>4136511
Princeton Neptunes are the best watercolor brushes I have tried but they're also the most expensive synthetics I've bought. You can do everything with a mop and a smaller round, I use 2 brushes for everything.
Even if you draw small buy larger brushes, brushes under size 8 are useless.

>>4137153
I bought low tack tape at the hardware store, it's exactly like masking tape but it doesn't rip your paper. Always wait for the painting to dry before removing the tape, and don't wait too long before removing it, max a couple days.

>>4136474
Not Mitsubishi, that shit be made in Japan and it's better than all the rest out there

>>4123314
Β A S E D
A
S
E
D

God my watercolours dry so slowly I end up painting wet on wet rather than wet on dry, which creates this horrendous bleeding effect that some people find aesthetically pleasing for some reason.

>>4140987
you might be using far too much water. you can make it faster by removing water with a dry brush and capillary action

what are the best grey pens? For base drawings, if it matters, I use mostly the pentel pocket brush.

>>4145313
Preferably refillable. In addition, what are the best rollerball pens as well. It would be good if those were refillable as well.

>>4145313
I don't know much other than Lexington Grey from Noodler's which is water resistant unlike a lot of other greys. It's never come up in any searches I've done and I've never wanted it. There are felt tip pens and drafting pens by Stabilo and Staedtler. I've seen Uni too. Rollball pens tend to be disposable and you end up spending fountain pen money on the refillable ones as far as I know, around $20.

Look up guides or reviews for whatever you find here https://www.jetpens.com/Refillable-Rollerball-Pens/ct/3107

Does anyone have any recommendations for sketchbooks? especially for being able to be travel under a lot of weight inside backpacks?

>>4123310
Damn i wish i could rob that place and put all that shit in my room

>>4123314
Not necessarily. It's where you want to start, but it gets old and has its limitations. A chacoal set is just as useful, a watercolor set is useful for experimentation, an ink pen is great for contrast, line emphasis, and dark blacks in a way that graphite can never touch. Not to mention that you're neglecting color altogether.

>>4135096
Get Tombow mono 100, Mitsubishi Hi-Uni, or Faber Castell. The former two are a bit darker than normal, but all of these have smooth cores.

>>4146297
Just for pencils?

Fuck this ink, it's so bad. It's grey as shit and all the pigment sticks to the bottom.

I've been using Ph. Martin's but ran out.
It's pretty good but I'm curious if there's anything better

>>4146297
Depends what mediums for?
I sketch in watercolor and use moleskine

>>4126674
Dope line work I would reccomend using higher quality paper like Bristol board and pigment inks for finished pieces

What's a good, stable drafting table for beginners? Does the surface matter at all?

>>4147129
What type of illustration do you use ink for? If you use with a dip pen then I suggest Pilot drafting ink then Higgins calligraphy ink since both are dark and waterproof

>>4147129
you are shaking it before use per instructions, right anon?

Canson XL Bristol. It's cheap, and I can put it in the printer, so I print blue lineart on it. Also pencils are easier to erase on bristol.

0.7 and 0.9 mechanical pencils. 2b leads. The 0.9 is fun to use, you can vary the line weight with it, the only problem is that I can't find a model that doesn't make me waste 1/4 of the lead.

Pilot color eno 0.7 soft blue. Easy to erase.

Cretacolor kneaded eraser, best ones in my experience.

Kuretake brush pen n. 13. Best brushpen. Easier to control than the Pentel Pocket brush.

Tombow fude pens. My bread and butter, they are like tiny brushes. Too bad the points wear out so fast.

Sakura Pigma Micron markers. Mostly 01 for tiny lines.

Big Staedtler Lumacolor Marker, for big areas of black, it's quicker and I don't waste ink.

Zebra fude pens. I recently tried them and they seem better than Tombow's ones. The point allow a wider range of line weight also it doesn't seem to wear out like Tombows.

>>4147129
The problem with ink is that more black = harder to control (it's more dense, doesn't flow as nicely especially with brushes) and clean.
But you can try winsor and newton india ink.

>>4147408
Also canon 9000f mark II to scan pages.
To scan a3 I scan them in two pieces, then I use Microsoft Image Composite Editor to quickly stick them together.

I should have invested in the gaymer glasses meme a long time ago--it's really helping my eyes to not get as tired for longer periods.

>>4147415
What, like Gunnars? Won't they mess with colour perception?

>>4147478
I only use it for the drawing process. Yeah it does mess with the color perception.

>>4123314
FPBP

>>4147129
Every shellac india ink I've had separates and must be shaken if it sits too long.

>>4146515
>dark blacks in a way that graphite can never touch
Lately I'm using these oil-based charcoal pencils like Cretacolor Nero. They're very close to black but not glossy like graphite. The only problem is that they're brittle, so you can't make very fine lines.