/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>you will never be better than this

nice

You made me reflect about life as an artist.

>>4044847
Hopefully in a positive way, I don't mean to spread negative energy.

>/ic/ hates proko because he can't draw from imagination
>/ic/ also hates Kim Jung Gi because he draws from memory and imagination

>>4044868
I think they hate Kim Jung Gi because he draws the same 10 things over and over.

>>4044842
Proko is aware of us and thus that is anons' reason to pretend to hate him.
It gives meaning to what should have been meaningless.

>You'll never be as good as him
Anyone can learn to draw well from observation. Even anons.

>>4044892
funny how thats all you need to do to make it

>>4044842
desu I don't mind that Proko can't draw from imagination but I'm not really a fan of his paintings either. His work is a little kitschy and the subject matter is always bland, like he doesn't really have a vision and just set up a model in front of him so he could start painting and focus on the technical stuff. He's good at academic drawing and teaching anatomy but beyond that, meh.

>>4044842
Proko can't draw period
He's a xerox who teaches things he doesn't know

>>4044901
i dont think anyone actually believe that

>>4044901
Source: me, a professional artist

>>4044842
Proko isn't an illustrator. He's more like your life drawing instructor at your local community college who got really successful because he produced consistently high quality videos on youtube. Who gives a fuck if he's not good at drawing things he doesn't care about?

>>4044916
This, retards here can't see the difference.

>>4044842
beep beep
new leddit meme coming thru
be sure to pay me 5k shekels on pateron for nsfw :^)

>>4044842
Serious question here, why teach anatomy if all you've evr drawn are studies portraits and paintings that doesn't require any knowledge of anatomy, only a trained eye?

>>4044954
Actually not, for example people alwsays mistake the serratus (or whatever the name is) with the ribs, they forget the face has planes because of the cranium, fuck up on landmarks of the body, see copy something is way harder if you don't know what the hell are you coping, on a structural level.

>>4044954
>you don't need to know anything about anatomy to be good at figure painting
My favorite /beg/ quote, no one who says this has done much drawing. Great observational drawing skills will take you very far but knowledge of anatomy makes you better at it in so many different ways. It helps your subconscious brain understand and interpret how to draw and paint the forms of the body rather than just spending twice as long mindlessly copying everything you see in order to get a worse result.

>>4044842
As far as I have always been concerned, the impressiveness of an artist is their ability to create something out of "nothing". To be able to capture an object you know so accurately by form simply from his mind. Directly using a reference and copying from that just makes you good at copying from a reference, you dont train your visual library because you dont have to, the material is always infront of you.

>>4044842
well the plan is to finish studying from hampton's book,do all of the vilppu videos and then do those anatomy stuff from proko.i'll report back once i finish them

>>4045001
waste of time just read loomis

>>4044868
No one questions KJG's technical skill, it's just that some people find his art repetitive/boring.
With Proko, people shit on him for the gaping holes in his technical skill. It's two different kinds of criticism.

>>4045088
they are both equally autistic

>>4044994
There are very few artist who use no reference and the ones that do tend to make proportional errors among other things. Besides the point that representational art does not copy but interprets life in front of them. You clearly do not know anything about creating art and would have no idea who creates from no reference. If you believe in never using reference then you will never get anywheres since you’ll never truly understand whatever subject you’re trying to draw.

>>4044842
It's not a bad thing, you won't really hear that shit from any successful artist worth anything.

>>4045001
You won't be able to draw for shit at the end of all that.
Just start drawing the stuff you WANT to draw now and figure out where you're running into problems. Focus your studies on those specific areas.

>>4045097
damn ic really went down hill. Remember when we hav the grind fundies mentality ? i guess everyone that grinded made it and left this hell hole
>>4045001
gl anon dont listen to that weeb crab

>>4044954
Learning anatomy goes hand in hand with observational drawing because its a consistent and but varied subject, letting you error correct on your own with the true aim of sharpening your general observation skills.
Its important to draw from observation and only correct off knowledge because the exercises are meant to teach you to see properly.

>>4045103
pyw.
You know what happens when you just "grind the fundies" and don't actually try to fucking DRAW things? You get Proko's kangaroo fetus abortion, that's what you get.
I'm not saying you can't do both, I'm just saying that if all you do all day is charcoal studies of anatomy diagrams all day, then that's all you'll be able to draw, charcoal studies of anatomy diagrams. The skills don't magically transfer to drawing other types of things.

>>4045109
>The skills don't magically transfer to drawing other types of things.
The whole point of fundamentals is that it does transfer to everything.

>>4045109
fundamentals are just fundamentals. its easy to apply your anatomy studies for something original as long as you practice.

>>4045109
maybe you should post your work and show us how you made it without learning the fundamentals.

>>4045134
If you drew that from imagination, then that's pretty cool. Although if that's the case, then I'm sure you've also spent a lot of time practicing drawing from imagination too, something which most people with the "grind the fundies" mentality neglect.
I'm not saying that fundies practice is bad, I'm just saying you can't get myopic about it.

>>4045151
do you even read books or watch courses ? they always tell you after you learn something to do it from imagination to make sure you understand it. and yeah it was a quick doodle from imagination

>>4045156
>they always tell you after you learn something to do it from imagination
Well, Proko didn't follow instructions then. And I know a lot of people on this board aren't either. I'm happy your plan is working for you though. I think sometimes people get too heavy on "grind the fundies" here and I just think there needs to be some counterbalance to that, that's all.

>>4045160
are you going to post your work any time soon or are you going to keep crabing with your pointless opinion ? proko didnt practice drawing from imagination and he admit that.that have nothing to do with grinding fundies is bad.

>>4045163
Tell me where I said that grinding fundies is bad you fucking mouthbreather. I said grinding fundies ALONE is bad.
And no I won't post my work.

>>4045134
blog?

>>4045180
>And no I won't post my work.
every time

>>4044983
Yeah, you need understanding of fundamentals( perspective/anatomy/lightning) in order to observe the model well. I've been doing figure drawing for years but it wasn't until I studied bridgeman that I improved.

>>4045180
Even if you have half a brain you will at least make slow progress by "grinding" without much thought just through sheer repetition. Its idiot proof.

But even then you still will only be learning and reinforcing the actual things you are practicing. As in you can't expect yourself or anyone else to be good at drawing fucking kangaroos from imagination just because you're grinding figure drawing humans, never spending much time drawing animals, much less kangaroos or from imagination.

You're missing the point Proko fucked up. He's not good at the things he never practiced? Shocker - you have to practice drawing the things you want to be good at drawing from imagination.

>>4044842
he cops flak for it because he did try to present it as a lesson. thats all.

>>4045349
>You're missing the point Proko fucked up. He's not good at the things he never practiced? Shocker - you have to practice drawing the things you want to be good at drawing from imagination.
Fake. I am nowhere near Proko's level of fundies and I drew this from imagination in a "can you draw a kangaroo?" thread.
I had never drawn a kangaroo before. Maybe a couple cats and dogs, but Proko himself has done a shitton of cartoons of his ugly dogs.

So unless you generalize even more and go for "you have to practice the act of drawing without reference itself", I don't agree.

>>4045180
>And no I won't post my work.
Sorry, Anon, but Anon wins this one, then.

so who is this perfect artist?
>only draws from imagination
>isn’t repetitive
>perfect lines
>perfect rendering
>perfect perspective
>has never made a bad drawing in their life

>>4045392
I said "good at drawing from imagination", not drawing shitty line art doodles rom imagination, try again. But congrats on having kangaroos on your mind enough to do that atleast.

>>4045400
I miss Guy.

>>4044842
My cents are many people here follow Prokos learning material.
They project their failures at learning at the instructor, and making Proko out to be the bad artist shifts the responsibility from their own failure. "It is not my fault that I suck ass, it is not because I hardly practice, it is because Proko actualy sucks"

>>4045392
you already had the intention of drawign a kangaroo

proko just drew an abstract shitty blob then decided it should be a kangaroo

it was the worst possible way to start a drawing, having no idea whatsoever what the drawing should be about

>>4045833
THIS. although he has plenty of other embarrassing shit, people fail to recognize this about the kangaroo meme specifically. that being said, it's still funny as fuck

>>4045833
He couldn’t draw a minion using reference and sarting with a cylinder. Stop defending that hack, not being able to construct anything remotely similar to what he had in mind is embarassing as hell

>>4045840
Everyone has their ups and downs. Chill

>>4045093
Oh dont I now? Cute. You have no idea what you're talking about.

In any regard, its about striking a balance. Obviously you use references in the sense that the information you draw down is something you have witnessed IRL, but, if like proko, you spend your entire artistic career essentially drawing on a page and having reference material sitting right next to it, when you choose to draw without reference material, you realize you have no visual library.

>>4045850
exactly 30 sec
no ref
never seen the movie

Why learn from him when there's vilppu and hogarth?

>>4045973
>Hogarth

>>4045979
>brainlet who thinks studying an artist means copying the style in which he draws and copying their diagrams

>>4045973
why not learn from all of them ?

>>4045987
>Hogarth!

>>4045993
pyw

>>4045994
You first bulge man.

>>4045994
>pyw

>>4045940
>imagine thinking you can make it as an artist/illustrator without using references
You'll be forced out of this delusion once if you actually start trying to make finished artwork my friend.

>>4045940
>imagine thinking using references is holding you back from making it as an artist/illustrator
You'll be forced out of this delusion if you actually start trying to make your own original finished artwork my friend.

>>4045997

>>4046065
The only use for Burne is to draw dynamic feet and hands, he is great at that, the rest...man, not my cup of tea.

>>4046019
They aren't wrong. Using reference is fine, even directly copying and letting your reference do the heavy lifting for you is also fine since it saves time; but if your skill ceiling stops at only being able to make a 1:1 copy of what you're referencing that is not fine, and it will leave you as a severely limited artist. Reference = good, Xeroxing = bad.

>>4046080
so you want to draw dynamic feet and hands but stiff body ?

>>4046089
No, never said that, is just the way he renders form is not of my taste, also his stylezation can be deceiving.

>>4046093
did you actually read the book ? the point is not to stylize like him but to make very dynamic figures with dynamic perspective

>>4046098
Thats not what I meant dude, reading comprehension.

>>4046086
No, that anon was literally trying to say that if you draw from references or use them it will make you not able to draw from imagination. Just plain misinformation because even illustrators like Donato Giancola or Terryl Whitlatch who are incredible at drawing from imagination also use references all the time. Building a "visual library" like that anon was obsessing over mostly depends on you also drawing what you see with repetition AS WELL as drawing those things from memory.

Also, making 1:1 copies of master drawings and such can improve your observation skills and technique tremendously so its not as simple as COPY BAD. REFERENCE BAD. Use your fucking brain, don't be lazy and you should be fine.

>>4045994
>Bulge man still hasn't posted his work!

>>4046065
>>4046127

>>4046101
if you lack reading comprehension you can start with some basic english lessons. Maybe try duolingo

>>4046137
Maybe you should try suck my dick, you arrogant fuck.

>>4046141
>getting this mad on 4chan

>>4046115
Read what I wrote again. And for the record, I have many finished artworks and many people buy them. I can live quite comfortably.

>>4046086
Proko doesn’t make 1:1 copies

>>4046393
yes he does
All of his art, excluding the cartoon abortions, are painted from photographs. That's why his cartoons are so bad, he doesn't use his imagination at all and hasn't made an original painting in almost a decade.

>>4046403
He used reference but they’re not 1:1 copies. Proof you say? Look at his drawing of axman in the op image, clearly stylized, has hatching(no lines in reality) and he’s chosen to leave some information out and emphasis others parts to create harmony. Please learn at least the basics of fundamentals before you start calling representational art xeroxing. He’s not a cartoonist so why would you expect him to be good at that?

>>4046500
b-but he cant draw a kangaroo

>>4046500
lol greg land also stylized and "chose to leave some information out"
play all the word games you want but it's still a copy.

>>4046133
Ew