/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

there's an entire thread for stupid questions read the catalog before you post

>>3993298
huh? ofc it is, the majority of pro nip illustrators draw from imagination. I mean at that point you've drawn the human body in all angles and proportions for 10000 times, so they can just go at it and focus on coming up with a unique and appealing design instead, and for that design inspiration they could potentially use some random ref photo for the purpose of a "theme" and nothing more.

begs will try to tell you otherwise, but copying poses and what not from ref becomes obsolete after years of studying, and you might only use it if there are extreme fisheye perspective scenarios or you're literally trying to 1:1 copy an actual humans face, or if you're supposed to draw something you've never seen before like specific animals, architecture, etc.

>>3993298
Of course it is, but people who do this usually don't draw in a very realistic style. I prefer more realistic styles, because they just look more aesthetic and believable to me.

>>3993298
I would say if it's just lineart then definitely but for shading and coloring then only the best can do that because it's a lot harder especially with multiple light sources

>>3993298
Yes and don't let the NGMI fags tell you otherwise.

Yes.

See cartoonists and other people that draw shit that doesn't exist.

>>3993330
Lol what, just draw an imaginary line from the light source to the surface. It's like perspective drawing in reverse.

Or are you gonna say that only the best can freehand perspective?

>>3993298
It's a thing, but it's unnecessary. Use photo and 3d references as much as you can.

>>3993344
Are you retarded? You need to do more than just draw a line from the light to the object. You need to imagine the value of that light and how it affects the color of every surface of that object. And more often than not, the surface of that object isn't flat so you're supposed to consider every variance in reflected light and cast shadow. And when you add multiple light sources to the mix which was my original post, it gets much trickier. It's not impossible but it's obviously harder than just drawing line art from imagination which is just basic structure and perspective.

>>3993298
that's like asking if free will is a thing. No.

There is no such thing as an "imagination" it's just how brains interpret and relay data. All generally pretty predictable and generally most people's brains work the same. Everything in your "imagination" is essentially inevitably going to have some "reference" point in your memory. Nobody is special. Magic isn't real. Everyone you respect or care about looks at references. The only people that care about proving they can draw from imagination are newfags that suck at drawing anything and want to believe that they just "don't have" some magic skill that good artists do have.

>>3993378
Do you have autism? I'm serious.

>>3993298
OP :Is drawing 100% from imagination a thing, or are you always supposed to have some refs to base on?

KJG: am I a joke to you?

>>3993389
yeah. Kill yourself nigger learn how to have an argument. There is literally no such thing as "drawing 100% from imagination." You're just a dumb fucking retard that's incapable of meaningful thought. Are you even old enough to post here?

>>3993298
Drawing from imagination is utilizing the refs you have memorized paired with construction.
So yes, if you know your subject well enough you can draw 100% from imagination.

you should do both every now and then. use reference so you can draw something accurate and avoid mistakes, but also draw from imagination so you don't lose your creative sense.

>>3993298
You can't draw something that you don't know out of knowhere, you have to study it first. A concept that doesn't exist is obviously something inspired by something that does, that can be studied be it the material or the shape of said thing.

>>3993378
imagination IS a brain's way of coming up with processed data though. no one is saying that human mind is above reason

>>3993298
If you are drawing the same ahit over and over like comic artists you don’t need ref. Want to do something new though? Even kim had to look at a reference of a flamenco to draw it

>>3993298
Do what you want. What kind of question is that. 100% imagination isn't really possible since everything that you will imagine will come from a reference that you've experiences at some point. So it's not like references are on the opposite side of your imagination, its a way to extent your imagination. And just like everything theres various ways and extents to which you can use them.

>>3993378
Based as fuck, free will is a meme.

>>3993410
kek can't believe this meme reached 4chan

>>3993298
Are you pretending to be retarded or are you actually retarded?
You think fucking mechs exist in reality?

>>3993342
>See cartoonists and other people that draw shit that doesn't exist.
>Posts a robot design that is 100% based on a FUCKING HUMAN BEING
you guys need to get your lives together

>>3993298
Obviously? Using references is something /beg/s do because they can't visualize things in their head well yet. Once you reach a certain level you can just see when things look right.

For example, I just drew this the other day without using a single reference. Its just a quick sketch I did while drunk so don't "hurr fundamentals" it. I just wanted to try something a bit different with style, but it goes to show you that even without refs you should still be able to picture things fine.

>>3993685
They don't have the imagination to see that the robot is actually a person and most of its functionality is based on references of pre-exisiting things.

>>3993378
>>3993675
Cringe and autismpilled

>>3993693
you got me good dude. 10/10 perfect troll

>>3993676
/ic is full of normies

Using no references at all is a romantic dream. Even Kim Jung Gi uses references and that guy pretty much does nothing but draw the entire day.

On the other hand what's the problem with using references? In this day and age they are easier to use than ever. This no references attitude of /ic/ is so annoying. No wonder the people here are mostly shit.

>>3993781
yeah there’s nothing wrong with it, even the great renaissance artists used references, hell they straight up copied shit from Classical Greek/Rome. If it wasn’t statue, it was real human models based on sketches that were drawn first.

>>3993782
Btw I will add, this is HOW you get better at drawing. Being able to deconstruct a reference and redraw it on your own is literally how all the masters became great.

>>3993693
Fucking kek, your entire fucking post is a joke. The fucking image you posted to support your dumb ass argument while going HURR I DIDN'T BOTHER WITH MUH FUNDAMENTALS FOR THIS ONE is fucking comedy gold. The fucking state of this place

>>3993298
That art looks fucking ugly is that a furry ? Tumblr and their shitty "muh style" noses.

>>3993298
I use direct reference as little as possible. I just study the things I need to draw on the side then draw them without reference.

It depends on what your goal for a drawing is. What people like >>3993318 don't get is that, yes, there are artists that draw largely (not entirely) without reference, but they rely on "tricks" to make up for it. They stylize the proportions in a less realistic way, for instance. Or the drawing might be a less important part of a series of drawings (comic panels).

If you want to do your absolute best work, do a very involved composition, or use an unfamiliar pose/angle, you'll use some form of reference. This idea that reference ever becomes "obsolete" is so laughably ridiculous and will only hold you back in the long run. Comic book artists draw the human body in every configuration imaginable, and they still use reference.

Anyone who thinks differently, provide one (1) example an artist who draws at this level without using reference. Otherwise you're just talking nonsense.

>>3993841
For comparison, the same artist's work, without reference. Is it bad? No. But clearly not referenced.

>>3993841
Kim Jung Gi
Now shut the fuck up and keep tracing like a bitch

>>3993864
Yeah no he doesn't. KJG's stuff is cartoony as fuck next to LaRosa's. He's a phenomenal artist but he does not draw that insanely good. If you genuinely believe he does, that tells me all I need to know about your perception of quality.
Also, KJG DOES study from reference constantly anyway. In every interview he talks about the importance of understanding reference, of observing real things. He references way more than almost anybody, he just commits a simplified version of it to imagination. He's also a freak of nature, do not try to be like him, you will not succeed.

Show me one piece that good that was not referenced. This shouldn't be hard for you. Tons of nip illustrators and all that.

Mangaka always have entire book shelves full of reference books. People seriously need to stop fellating japanese artists on here.

>>3993731
seething brainlet, cope you're a fucking domino

>>3993869
KJG almost never uses references when drawing. He builds a visual library but everything comes out of his head from said library. I'm shitposting here, but you genuinely look like your jimmes have ben rustled, that's quite pathetic anon.
>>3993841 this shitty drawing look soulless and because he traced everything from something that does not fit.

>>3993926
Forgot pic.
>He's also a freak of nature, do not try to be like him, you will not succeed.
Spoken like a true cuck and failed artist becoming teacher.

>>3993781
This
There’s a night and day difference between when I don’t use a reference and when I do.
Only a faggot would tell you otherwise

>>3993941
Only faggots like you would use references to fill up their lack of skills.

>>3993926
"Tehe I was merely pretending!"

>this shitty drawing look soulless and because he traced everything from something that does not fit.

This level of cope. You ever just want to hate a fucker to death? You and people like you are the problem with this board. You just can't have a nuanced opinion on anything. Whatever your feelings about LaRosa vs Gi, to straight up disrespect the level of skill that goes into a drawing like that, to bring out the /v/ meme words like "soulless", to equate referencing to tracing--it's this type of thinking that's responsible for the low level of critique and improvement here.

Your KJG sketch is good but not AS good, and you, certainly, will never be KJG. Deal with it faggot. I don't know why I ever come back here, done trying to convince you idiots. Stay bad.

>>3993947
Right back at you, I genuinely think the board would be better off without faggots like you. Post your work.

ironic posting is killing the internet

>>3993928
KJG is also just really good at making things read well. If you were to look at a lot of his stuff and scrutinize it with a magnifier, you'd see his representations can get pretty inaccurate. He doesn't draw EXACTLY what he's seen in the past, but he knows how to describe something that looks close enough with just black and white. This becomes especially apparent on his motorcycles and machinery. There's A LOT of guesswork that he makes in those spots sometimes.

He's said it himself. His memory isn't as good as what people give him credit for, and he's really good at filling in gaps with values and contrast that make sense. He likely sees all of his mistakes and holes in his memory, where as everyone else just goes "HOLY SHIT, HOW DID YOU DO THIS ALL IN PEN, WITHOUT G U I D E L I N E S?"

I will never knock his work, and he's definitely a master, but I think people need to think of him as human. Otherwise, they can't see his flaws and they also can't aspire to be like him.

>>3993943
The literal greats use reference
That’s like calling a ruler a bitch stick because it helps you draw straight lines.

>>3993410
This meme was shit the second it started and died right after the original person who made it thought of it kys normalfags and get out

>>3994011
There's a difference between using references to help you express what you want to show and literally mindlessly copying garbage like >>3993841

>>3993819
Fucking hell the joke flew right over your head my guy

>>3993776
>>3994025