/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Don't skimp on paint any more than you need. Cheap watercolor is especially bad. I can't vouch for what you got specifically because I haven't used it but be prepared for weak colors.

>>3977073
The palettes are usually of poor quality when it comes to resilience against aging, but I don't see why it couldn't be an okay entry into it.

>>3977090
Most cheap paint is lacking in pigment. With watercolor this has a big impact since it's transparent and the medium already tends to be lighter than intended. A beginner using cheap paint is a guarantee that that everything will be washed out and desaturated. OP, my advice is use the paint and mix it stronger than you think you need. Every beginner watercolor I've ever seen uses too much water or not enough pigment. Colors will be lighter on paper than on your palette and will dry twice as light. Remember that and you may be saved.

>>3977073
I got this palette. It's not the best. Not exactly the worse either. Still very cheap paint and the opaque pigment are extremely grainy. I got better results with 10 dollar for 12 tube watercolor from walmart. I did pic related with the sakura palette. I personally think it is enough for entry as a beginner like I am.

>>3977073
If you're looking for cheap high quality watercolors then you should look at kuretake gansai.
They're usually on amazon for like 30 bucks for a 36 sets and even come in smaller sizes if
that's still too expensive.

>>3977189
Seconding this. I usually paint with tubed color, but I got these to try out and they're about as good but for a fraction of the price.

Def recommended over any other premade palettes.

>>3977189
Ah man, I fucking love Kuretake. I didn't even know they did paints. I use their markers. They're comparable to Copic in quality and blend really well with them too.

>>3977073
Just practice and apply all the color theory with it.
Don't use too much water

>>3977073
I use "Sonnet" from st. Petersburg, a cheaper versions of White Nights. My experience has been good

>>3977073
Low pigment load, probably a lot of brightener and filler that separates out. Honestly makes less of a difference than cheap wood pulp paper when it comes to how paint behaves. I'll avoid being a total snob and say the real problem with these cheap sets is outright unknown pigment compositions in the cheapest shit and "hues" that don't act like what they say they are in the student grades. I use poverty tier 18th century synthetics, industrial dyes, and five shades of motherfucking rust and they somehow manage to cheap out even more than that.

>>3977073
>>3977189
These sets of a million colors are not necessary. Unless you are sketching outside and you need a portable palette the best option is to get a ceramic palette, the largest you can with as much open surface you can, and a few artist grade tubes, something like
>cad lemon
>burnt sienna
>cobalt/ultramarine blue
>burnt umber
>yellow ochre
You're gonna use these paints most of the time anyway.
If you need a portable palette, the cheap aluminum ones like the "Meeden" brand that are popular right now are absolute crap and the brand name ones are insanely overpriced. If you are ok with a small ceramic palette and tubes in a freezer bag just go with that.
Also I recommend buying this shit from a real store and not online, you have to make sure the enamel is stark white. The cheap stuff has a color cast because it is poor quality. And always remember to never trust reviews because people who review art supplies do not use them.

>>3977419
it is necessary to buy a ig palette for gansai because they're japanese paints and don't mix well together. You're supposed to use them pure. I gave mine away because they work way to different from european watercolor
Just buy white nights

>>3977073
Never heard of them.
If you are short of money and want to make a cheap palette of pans, get an old tin, stick pans in of a decent brand such as Winsor & Newton, Daniel Smith, Sennelier, Old Holland etc.
If you are new to painting use a cheap limited palette of ultramarine blue, permanent alizarin crimzon & cad lemon or yellow. Add W&N burnt sienna for a nice opposite if you want to work with just ultramarine blue. Add yellow ochre if you want to paint faces/figures and/or landscapes.
Once you are proficient in these and mixing greens with these (About 2 to 3 years of daily use) then you can worry about all those other colours. Adding a large palette of colours is for amateurs.

>>3977189
Welp, they have almost the same price (the one I got is 20 bucks). I'm retarded, guess I'll have to save again and wait these are almost done to buy them.

Thanks for your recommendations and insights on this, I'll see how it goes.

I would rec Holbein, I think they might sell small sets like their acrylic paint. Not cheap but it’s a really good brand.

>>3977073
Alternatives are 99% of the time worse,
Honestly just take the fall and get real paint.

>>3977089
/thread

>>3978060
I wouldn't recommend holbein sets because they're like 5ml samples and not a combination of colors you want.

Slowly picking up tubes after an initial investment in a limited palette is the way to go if you're saving money. Paper is expensive too. Painting isn't for the poor.

>>3977073
>I just bought this on ali express
it's a bit late to ask then, isn't it?

also, paints may be OK, you don't sound like a pro anyway, so it's better to learn while wasting cheap paint then expensive paint. The only two differences between the "Pro" paints and hobbyist/student paints are usually pigment (type and load), and lightfastness, which depends on the pigment. Just go and try for yourself, and if it's not up to your standards then upgrade when you can paint half-decent.

>>3978102
What nobody really told me with watercolors is that paper matters.
150gms/100lbs is decent without using too much water for my practice (I use copy paper to be on the cheap side but synthetic brushes because this paper rips through natural brushes).

But I really needed to use higher grade paper if I wanted to use alot of water/large areas of washing and/or stretching the paper.

>>3978126
>What nobody really told me with watercolors is that paper matters.
Yeah I definitely wish I knew when I got my shitty Canson XL 11x15 pad. I was scared off by the prices of real paper and thought I was getting a bargain, the reviews were good. This was the first in a long line of lessons learned about quality of supplies and how most people buying supplies are fucking arts and crafts 40+ year old women whose goals and standards do not mete my own.

I warn newcomers to avoid student grade paints and shit paper because it's objectively a worse time and will make you want to quit the medium. Luckily there are some good videos to share about it now. But it seems like artists are embarrassed to say that watercolor is expensive to start. Copics are similar.

>>3978205
It's not that bad to start compared to oil or a real hobby. You can do well for under 100 dollars. I think the problem is that it's dominated by broke teens and craftcunts that don't give a fuck.

>>3977073

I've used it. It's decent. Good enough that any failure or success will be due to your own skills and not your tools failing you.

>>3977189
Technically those are not watercolor in the western sense, but the skills should be transferable.

>>3978102

>Painting isn't for the poor.

No, but watercolors are the best choice is you're poor and still want to paint.

Oils are probably worst choice.

>>3978213
>You can do well for under 100 dollars
>I think the problem is that it's dominated by broke teens
I agree it's not much money but a lot of people won't even spend less than that on a tablet and are always looking to cut corners with chink shit. When you're starting and not sure if you'll stick, it can be tough to justify the $100.

>>3978222
I agree but I might recommend gouache over wc as it's easier to an extent and more forgiving (also many watercolorists are going to pick up a white gel pen/tube of white gouache eventually anyway). A primaries+b/w or cmykw can go a long way and get you familiar with water and shapes/composition. Not having to plan as much of the painting out ahead in terms of transparency for watercolor is something that can be better managed when you have more experience painting. And you can always get the white back with gouache.

>>3977073
I got the exact same palette!! It's ok...

The colors are a little chalky, definitely "beginner" quality. And you don't need that many colors anyway.

You could try the Windsor and Newton cotman pocket box. It's only like $15 and has cold/warm primaries plus a couple extras. Higher quality IMO and cheaper.

>>3977189
I would recommed white nights over these. Gansai is not watercolor, which means they don't perform the same way. They tend to get muddy really easily and they don't layer that well.

Also
>>3977419
>>3977483
>Rec anything cadmium
Why would you do that? Cad are not only toxic(assuming you are using the real thing and not a shitty hue) but they produce the most muddy colors possible. If OP is on a budget just grab a cmy triad. For Cyan, get Phthalo blue(PB15) Magenta(PR122) and Yellow(PY3)

>>3977073
I got one of these cheap sets too, Wouldn't know if it's good because I got cheap "mixed-media" paper that turned out to be shit for water color and I'm too poor to buy watercolor art boards to fuck around with. So screw learning watercolor I guess.

So, I just got he Windsor and Newton Cotman 12 half pan set, I've got some brushes but they're kinda meh, can anyone recommend a good set or maybe one more expensive one that is versatile enough?

>>3978459
>Why would you do that?
Because they are great
>Cad are not only toxic
inert unless ingested
>they produce the most muddy colors possible
this is not the paints' fault
why the fuck would you suggest a CMY palette to a beginner, it's so hard to get natural colors. phthalo and hansa yellow are awful colors too

>>3978459

Shut the fuck up Brian. Cadmiums are wonderful colours and completely safe if you learn to stop eating your paint.

>>3978459
Everyone uses the cads. The colors you recommended are awful for watercolor since you cant lift those paints with water to erase. And anything phthalo requires extra brushes, extra water and meticulous care to keep it out of the other colors.

>>3978729
Not really, they don't mix well and the texture isn't always desirable. Benzimidazolone yellow is a better choice for general use. They're great for effects and opaque as all fuck but I'd rather have the versatility of a quinocridone and perylene maroon. Agreed that pthalo is shit; I much prefer iron blue if I'm going to deal with staining.

I would recommend to not waste money on cheap watercolors in the long run you'll end up wasting more money.

The ones I recommend are White Nights, these are my most beloved watercolors, highly recommend!

>>3978609
Pro Arte Prolene synthetic, round #6 or 8, only need a flat if you do large areas of flat washes.
The same brand rigger #2 for lines, details.
Cheap & pretty good.
I've never found anything a match for W&N series 7 sable but unless you're rich, forget it.

>>3978459
I'm the anon you're whingeing at, nothing wrong with my colours. Stop being such a moaner.

It would help if OP told us what they want to paint.
Oh and always buy decent paper. Bockingford 200lb is the cheapest I've got away with.
Unlike canvas, one irreparable mistake and you're ditching the paper, and this is costly. Which is why a lot of people draw their subject out first, and it pays to be excellent at drawing as the paper doesn't like rubbing out of mistakes, either.

>>3978836
I got the W&N little 12 set to hold me over because I'm broke right now, but I'm def gonna go for the 36 set of those, they seem nice from the reviews I've seen save for one or two colors.

I have had my eye on the Sennelier La Petite pan set, because I've heard it's the best for lots of layers, but desu IDK if the paper I have is even up to that. I gotta invest in some better paper, but damn you don't get much for the price of Arches, would love to try something rough or 300lb.

>>3978406

>I might recommend gouache over wc as it's easier to an extent and more forgiving

Boy have you got my number. I started trying to get back into watercolors after years of not touching them, and bought a black and white gouache as supplements, then a basic color set. Now I've got all the major colors in gouache and I hardly touch my watercolors.

>>3979587
You don't need more than like 16 pigments. I'm two away from that and a third of them are brown and wouldn't know what to do with the garbage they throw in to fill out the rest.

>>3979587
I have some Sennelier paints. They are pretty nice the colors get very rich when you glaze them. I'd recommend getting some heavy Arches watercolor blocks with them because you need multiple washes to make them shine

1. Bootleg lol
2. This brand actually remade their watercolors and greatly improved the quality. Its no Winsor N Newton but its a lot less chalky now and i actually enjoyed using it

>>3978836

Russia makes art supplies?

>>3978609
Unpopular opinion but if you're dexterous enough you can use just a single angled brush. Sharp tip for small areas and whole flat edge for washes

i hate switching brushes so i taught myself to do this. if it works for you, you'd could splurge on a single high-quality brush instead of a whole set

>>3979629
You don't really need more than the 3 primaries getting started. Once you have a solid foundation, you can start supplementing with colors difficult to mix, or impossible, like ultramarine.
I'm not so neckbeardy that I insist people only start with primaries, but the experience of trying to mix the entire spectrum with them will teach you way more than picking a color in a tray. But for a hobbyist...that's kind of a waste of time, anyway.

>>3978205
Paper is preference, too. I like Arches - I've used it for years, it's not super expensive, and it's quality stuff. You can spend a lot more, but it works for me. For smoother surfaces, I also use the better brands of heavy bristol, when I know I won't be doing massive washes.

Stretching your paper makes a difference, too, even for the heavier papers. I used to use craft tape and all that, but plain old masking tape works just as well, and I've used heavy duty staples in a pinch, too (the one I have to stretch canvas with).
And, if you don't want to deal with all that, the heavier weights of lllustration board work well, too. I've worked on the heavier boards for commercial work, it holds up very well.

>>3979779
I was looking at 16 as an average among fine artists. Most are using some kind of split primary palette (6), some darks, mixing complements, and range extenders (4), neutrals (3), a convenience green (1), and some special pigments like cadmium for effect (2). Adjust to taste and you have just about everything you'll ever want or need. The problem with the pan sets is that they aren't carefully chosen to harmonize, I could probably cut the list down to 9 and still be playing with a full deck.

>>3977089
>Don't skimp on paint any more than you need
Not OP, but I'm from 3rd world >30 bucks like >>3977189 said is a quite considerable sum for me.

My only recommendation is that sometimes local versions of wallmart sell art stuff in-between their other actions. These sets are good to supplement real sets.

>>3977073
>>3977111
>>3977117
>>3977189
Any recommendations of aliexpress watercolors, pencils, or just about anything?

>>3979706
You'd be surprised that there are Euro brands of art stuff besides Kooh-i-noor.

>>3979587
I have the Cotman 12 set and it's garbage. I would actively recommend AGAINST buying it to others. The colors are always unsatisfying and can never get enough pigment. Trying to get enough pigment you often end up with too much water so you're constantly fighting the paints (and if you're on wood pulp paper, good lord).

This is my set
>lemon yellow hue
>cadmium yellow hue
>cadmium red pale hue
>alizarin crimson hue
>ultramarine
>intense blue/phtalo blue
-
>viridian hue
>sap green
>yellow ochre
>burnt sienna
>burnt umber
>chinese white

Things end up looking muddy and chalky unless you use very light washes, they don't layer or wash well. The lemon yellow is incredibly weak and annoying to use. You can't make a real red with the set, only a muddy orange if you mix both reds because the cad red pale is too orange and the aliz. crim. is a darker magenta. The blues are great although I used much more of the ultramarine, the phtalo blue is incredibly powerful relative to the other colors in the set. You can make wonderful green mixes so the two greens are a bit wasted since neither of them are really that convenient. The viridian almost seems like a phtalo green shade. The sap green is very slightly yellow green. You have to mix the premade greens anyway so might as well mix from yellow/blue to avoid mud. Yellow ochre I never found a use for, it's instant muck mixing with anything and too brown to be used for anything unless you want some opaqueness as it's the most opaque of the bunch. The burnt sienna is weak and I never found anything satisfying to mix it with. The burnt umber suits the set really well and I think it mixes very nice neutrals with the blues. Chinese white is a fucking joke of a pan to include because it does nothing, it hardly changes colors when mixed and doesn't add any sort of hazy effect. So you can mix excellent greens, purples, greys, and mud. I regret purchasing it and even as a beginner I knew the kit was shit. Get real tubes asap

>>3980763

I always associate art supplies thusly:

England, France and Italy for painting supplies. Germany and Japan for drafting supplies.

When I think of America, I only think of cheapo crap for students, and occasional quality products like col-erase and Palomino Blackwings.

Although I shouldn't think this way because I've been stocking up on M. Graham paints, and they're American.

I don't even think of Russia when it comes to quality art supplies.

>>3981171
It's almost like you have to look at things on a product by product basis unless it's Russian or chink

>>3981200
>product by product basis unless it's Russian or chink

So Russian stuff is just assumed to be crap?

>>3980818
This is pish, I routinely use Cotman colours, even their reds, alongside Daniel Smith, W&N artist, etc.
Can't tell the difference with their earth colours, either.

>>3981203
There isn't a better brand of watercolors than Russian Leningrads. You can fight me on this.

>>3981853
Look up the definition of fugitive....

>>3981853

I can't, because I never see Russian art supplies for sale anywhere, and thus have never tried them.

>>3982613
You can buy them on ebay, ffs

>>3981853
how good are these for layering? not excessive but for anime style at least