/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

It's treason then...

>>3890632
It's not about permission, nitwit. The point of learning the fundamentals is to train your brain into understanding what works and what doesn't.

>>3890632
>to show the experienced ones
>the experienced ones

>>3890632
Nigga we're all /begs/ here

>>3890641
exactly. I'm a fine art graduate and I always cringe when people want do go the easy way, fucking up everything they touch not because of their lack of talent, but lack of fundamentals. Picasso had started from the anatomy studies to end up developing cubism n shit. right?

>>3890632
get back to /beg/ and /asg/

>>3890632
Yeah you need permission of some faggot board while you can't even think for yourself which methods can work for you and which ones won't. There is no hope with /ic/.

It’s not hard OP you just grind fundies for study and doodle anime for fun.
You can do both at the same time.
In a waiting room at the doctors? Anime.
At home by your desk?
Fundies.

I don’t hate anime, but I hate that every single weeaboo’s sketchbook has a page with an over rendered disembodied eye but they have no idea where to put it on the head.

Okey-dokey. You go first.

>>3890847
Kek

>>3890875
Hey /ic/, put a crit on this.

>>3891025
>Head is not small and childlike to resemble Popuko.
>Right hand looks like a thumbs up, thanks anon.
>Left hand is incoherent, not even looking like cartoon hands.
>Face is pointed front yet the right side of the hair is bigger than the left.
>One eye is bigger than the other.
My my, what good is a rebel who isn’t even strong?

>>3891025
Needs more Loomis. Read the sticky, faggot

>>3891035
>>Right hand looks like a thumbs up, thanks anon.
looks like a south park "fuck you"

>>3890737
I used to give advice but this board is beyond salvation. The population here is 90% /beg/ anime fags who don't really want to learn, 8% porn artists who think they are gods gift to earth because they make some money with passable anatomy and are really only interested in marketing themselves, 1% wannabe concept artists who only post a painting for crits when they're 30 hours into it and refuse to fix any fundamental drawing mistakes because they secretly think they're better than the remaining 99% so they just keep polishing turds, and 1% artists who actually want to learn and contribute but are too tired of this shit.

>>3893025
Why are you still posting here then? Fuck off lmao

>>3893027
I'm in the process thereof.

>>3893025
kek, /beg/tards RP-ing as some cynical, jaded old veterans always makes me laugh.
you can always tell from how seriously they take themselves and how pretentious their speech patterns are.
even funnier once you actually get to talk to real pros and none of them acts like this.

>>3893039
>/beg/RP-ing as jaded veteran
This seems far more plausible than the actual best of the board being that way. Why would anybody who loves their craft enough to get good need to jack off their ego like that?

>>3893039
I never said I am an old veteran, I said I wanted to learn and contribute.
Here's your (you) I guess
And pros don't talk like the tards on /ic/ either

>>3893039
Pros talk shit anonymously. Why would you think they don't? Art is a never ending journey. The people at their level is just the same as being a beginner.

>>3890845
>drawing anime in public.
What a loser.

>>3890739
>Picasso
>Started from basics
I think you meant "Picasso's father"

Do whatever you want
One thing you dingus need to understand is that 10h of practice is worth more than 10h of "study" aka watch one hour video of someone doing something, copy that one thing and then go play something or jerk off because you "finished that lesson"

People that are really good at art don't have talent, they just started at young age and keep drawing for years. Do you think they read loomis or watched vilppu in that time?

Thats the difference between western and anime/manga. Children in Japan draw what they like and grow up loving it. They can draw for hours some naruto shit and people around them will encourage that
We don't. Even here people can't draw a circle and talk about drawing for imagination. How can you draw for imagination if your visual library have nothing in it?
JUST DRAW, DOESN'T MATTER WHAT, JUST DRAW

>>3893198
If you 'JUST DRAW' without properly studying the fundamentals, it might be "fun" for you, but for a long time it's going to be undisciplined shit art that nobody else will appreciate, your progress will be slow af, and you'll likely pick up a few bad habits along the way

You need both practice AND theory

Btw, there's really no difference in how Japanese and Western children start drawing, stop romanticizing chinks you god-damned weeb

What's that one version of the OP image where it pretty much says "to learn to draw form you must first draw with CAD?"
It was on a recent thread but I don't remember where (it was on /ic/)

>>3890632
Nobody cares what you do.
But for fucks sake, stop opening retarded threads and JUST DRAW ALREADY, YOU FUCKING RETARD.

>>3893269
>If you 'JUST DRAW' without properly studying the fundamentals, it might be "fun" for you, but for a long time it's going to be undisciplined shit art that nobody else will appreciate, your progress will be slow af, and you'll likely pick up a few bad habits along the way

that's why nobody "just draw"s, because pitfalls exist and nobody wants to say what they are because "ooh I don't want competition"

>>3893259
In theory you are right, but you know that 90% of people just download a bunch of stuff and don't do shit. You can watch Vilppu a thousand times, if you don't practice you will never get good. You can't learn muscular memory from theory.

And if you study thinking about the result and if someone will appreciate your work you are already doomed. Is like being a musician and only thinking about that one time in the month that a lot of people will watch you play your instrument. No, you need to work to yourself first, create an habit and stop procrastinating. Then you can learn anything without feeling tired and frustrated

If you are the type that can sit in front of your computer or a piece of paper and draw for 4h without feeling tired and can read Bridgman in a weekend for the fourth time, great. My post was not for you
My post is for the people that want to make it but feel discouraged, people that really like to draw but feel the pressure to follow the recipe and end up giving up. People that say "lets play some games first, then I will draw" "ok, just this youtube video, then I will draw".
These people are the majority and yes, its ok to JUST DRAW

But you can send a letter to Frazetta in heaven saying that JUST DRAW is stupid and he should stop drawing and creating bad habits, fucking crab

>>3893259
>muh bad habits
This is the biggest fucking problem with this board. You're terrified to draw. You're literally afraid to draw anything because you're scared it'll end up with you picking up bad habits. Holy fuck, dude, grow a spine.

>>3893169
>I-it was all a meme to sell paintings
>W-why would a painter apprentice his son in the 19th century
>He painted things I don't like s-so he must be a fraud.

>>3893310
>Immediately invents an art style that didn't require much after his father died
>Every painting he did after his father passed away didn't come close to whatever he claimed was his when his father was alive
>H-He got worse on purpose, trust me

>>3893039
Uh, no. They talk pretentiously because this is an anonymous forum.

These people are definitely still "normal" in face-to-face interactions, they're just letting out their anxiety and loathing here.

Guess you haven't learned that people have different masks they wear to different occasions.

I'm not who you replied to, but I absolutely feel them - doesn't even matter if people like that are actually "pros" or even giving good advice, it's just that this board fosters contempt because art is a long, arduous journey and most people come here when they're angry or tired or both, and let off steam onto each other instead of with each other.

Unless that changes, the statement that guy made will never be wrong. That being said, I hope one day this place becomes a healthier place to be, growth wise especially. Basically, just another old conceptart.org, that'd be nice.

Nice, but probably not gonna happen.

>>3893361
>Immediately
He went through several periods before arriving at cubism

>Didn't require much
What does that even mean?

>Doesn't come close
That's, like, your opinion man.

>>3893273
>>3893269
>Nobody cares what you do.
>But for fucks sake, stop opening retarded threads and JUST DRAW ALREADY, YOU FUCKING RETARD.

>>3893198
>JUST DRAW, DOESN'T MATTER WHAT, JUST DRAW
my condolences for the idiot who takes you seriously

>>3890632
>copy anime without permission to show the experienced ones how wrong they are
It would be a real shame if someone asked you to post your work done from your imagination

>>3893398
Damnit, my weakness.
I didn’t think this art thing through enough to be creative and draw more than my waifu in portrait size resolutions.

>>3893389
oof, thanks for posting this. Oof that’s a good cringe

>>3893130
>>3893380
Nah, I'm not talking about that. I'm specifically talking about the kind of pretentiousness of 10-year-olds commenting how they are born in the wrong generation under a Bach YouTube video.

It's not as simple as how harsh the tone is, you can see a lot of pros being really harsh and shit-talky without even needing an anonymous mask.

t's a bit more nuanced than that.
It's just that you can feel them desperately trying to display a persona of world-weariness, but at the same time you can also hear a clear tone of naivety underscoring their whole speech.
They're usually trying to mirror the talking points of actual jaded people, but their shallow mimicry naturally falls tragically flat.

I dunno kinda hard to explain, but you just know it when you see it.

>>3893389
This image proves my point
This person don't draws, just follow tutorials and only think about polishing turds. Someone that produce shit like that only draws thinking about the result and don't care about the drawing itself

On the other hand someone like Matt Rhodes said on his brother channel (RnD) that they both learn how to drow copying stuff they liked to draw. Matt liked animations and his brother comics
Matt used to fill and entire ream of paper in less than a month just drawing stuff that he found interesting like scenes from animated movies
He only started to study perspective when he got into art school.

On Bobby Chiu stream is always the same thing. The artist started drawing from early age or high school. Copied a bunch of stuff for years, started doing similar things until they got confortable with the act of drawing then started to learn to get better.
But jokes on them, they are wrong. They should download a Loomis book, read it one time and keep shitposting here about fundamentals, right? Thats how you get good.

>>3893389
What you don't see from these "progress" pics is how much these people actually draw. This faggot probably drew some random shit once every 3 months, if that. Show me his hundreds of sketchbooks with all the pages filled up.

>doesnt have the ligameme

Sorry bro. You cant make it

>>3893292
Yes, thats called studying you inbred south american.

To do a study. Not to "study".

Its more than obvious that the study comes with the practice of said fundamental's theory.

>>3893486
Nah, I know many retards with similar progressions. This is what happens when you ignore 100% any kind of instruction or theory. I mean, you could discover it all by yourself if you are smart albeit at a slower pace. But why would you lmao? Everything was discovered and is available for study. Why would you discover it all from zero?

>>3893389

1 step forward, 10 steps back exemplified.

>>3893807
Nah there's improvement. He just showed more of what he didn't know by actually 'going out of his comfort zone.'

>>3893389
>2008: With this Mark Crilley book, I’ll be on par with Sadamoto in no time.
>2017: Yep, back in my day we got art books from the library and that made us strong. In a few more years, I’ll be up there with the greats like Crilley-san.

>>3890632
> to show the experienced ones
Then why are you on /ic/ of all places? Go to a website with the experienced ones.

I'm currently 3~ months into hardcore studying, and I tried absent-mindedly drawing some anime a few days ago and I was blown away by how much better I was at it, compared to my 18-year old werb self (pic related, references from tkmiz)

Is it amazing? No, but its something that I draw almost without thinking, and thats something I couldve never done without studying the fundamentals

>>3895638
I’m crying. This is adorable... It’s like a 10 year old drew it. Never give up on your dreams.

>>3895638
You suck you tkmiz rip off

>>3895638
you're doing great sweetie

>>3893292
Is it really our fault people don't understand the difference between doing a study and studying tho?
Fact of the matter is if your not smart enough to deduct by yourself that grinding book after book isn't a good idea then there's nothing we can say to help them. People need to turn on their fucking brains

This guy doesn't apply ANY of the shit that's taught on this board, he just draws and erases until he gets something that looks amazing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOXtpa5xp7I

>>3893448
Kek

>>3895865
Clearly someone has not read Murata's book.
Just because an artist doesn't visually explicitly draw with construction, it doesn't mean they're not actually using them.

>he just draws and erases until he gets something that looks amazing.
Most professional artists work that way, it's not breaking news.

>>3895953
What’s the name of that book anon?

>>3890847
This. I really like a lot of anime, but weebs are the pits

>>3893361
>worse
>implying

>>3895982
Hetappi Manga Kenkyuujo R

>>3895811
Schizo.

>>3890632
Why are the anime posters so obsessed with calling people not interested in their art crabs?

>>3900639
It's derived from the Crab Mentality where as if an individual is poised to succeed in an endeavor the community would actively provide disinfo and misleading information in an attempt to cause uncertainty and doubt to deviate the would be achiever from accomplishing a task hence the term "Crabs in a bucket" which is an environment that when an individual could not realize their goal they will bring others down in order to ensure the demise of the whole - ergo /ic/.

>>3896221
holy shit anon, youre a godsend.

but its a shame theres no translation available. Good thing I've already been learning to decipher moonrunes for a while now

>>3891025
Hey OP.

>>3893389
>soul vs soulless

37 here . Hardcore drawing every day for over a year. Started from Scratch with basic doodles. I believe it’s a bit of it all, just draw a lot, draw what you love and fundamentals will help you hit goals faster . No way would I be as far as Im now and at my age with the time I have without learns stuff. I unfortunately don’t have the luxury to start young and just draw, so i was forced to study and grind to get better. I also believe that it helps that I’m not trying to make it or make money so I can not be stressed when I put pen to paper. I’m purely fueled by that fact that I want to get better for me because I like drawing.

I guess it all depends on the person. But if you put in the hours and time you’d be surprised on what you can pump out. Now I’m not saying I’m great cuz I have a lot to learn but I can tell ya that my advancements have been crazy high for only a year of work. Not cuz of talent but of hard work, repetition , learning and applying and drawing what I like.

>>3893389
>>3901137
See like how is this possible? So much time yet little improvement. Which leads me to believe they just gave zero fucks or like another anon said, only drew a few times between the two. I’m almost done with my last drawing. Ill put up a 2018-2019 difference and I’d love to hear how far I’ve done compared to a few other b4 and afters. Whenever I see ones with more the 3 year gaps id expect to see huge jumps but sadly 50% of the time you don’t.

>>3901141
Getting good at a skill that is complex as drawing and painting requires immense repetition, like learning a classical instrument. If a year passes and you only do several practice sketches a month when you should be doing 100, then you will have some improvement just because you're drawing but not nearly enough as what is possible.

But what you really have to teach yourself is a sensitivity to what looks good and what looks bad, and how to see your mistakes. If your idea of what good art is happens to be crappy deviantArt level anime characters then you're doomed. You will get so much farther by striving for the highest levels.

>>3901141
Because most people on DA don't actually draw that often, so it was likely something someone drew when they were 10. go bored and checked it out again in college and decided to try again for fun.
None of these type images you see are people actively trying to git gud, they're just randos who are having fun.

Are those 80-90€ wacom tablets worth buying or they're a scam for /beg/s

>>3901223
Do you have the money?
They're still, imo, the best on the market. People who talk about chinese knockoffs are just coping desu.

That said, if you don't have money to burn on a hobby then you should probably just deal with the chinese knock offs because they are 'good enough'
but that's like $3-400 for a tablet you'll use everyday for years, with only the periodic need to buy new nibs for your pen. for a hobby that's basically nothing.

>>3901181
Make sense, never looked at it like that. I’ve only been in the draw world for a yearish so I’m still new to a lot. I always assumed most DAs and B4 and afters where legit people doing there best. But if your best is just for shits and giggles then ya, you’ll get crap.

>>3901233
I always assume anyone who's that bad is either new or just a hobbiest who doesn't practice that often, and its usually a pretty safe bet.

If nothing else, I find people mostly improve because they do end up drawing the same thing too often and they get bored. Drawing shitty anime girls might be appealing to someone who draws once a month, but if you're drawing 10 anime girls a day, you quickly get bored of drawing the same girl in the same pose and begin to desire something more interesting.

Of course there's exceptions like always, but that's usually how I've seen it.

>>3893484
So they trained their hand before jumping into fundies? I guess the hand dexterity made learning easier.

>>3901223
>they're a scam for /beg/s
???

>mfw we are witnessing the /ic/ anime revolution
we are about to enter a new age of cartoon porn guise
fuck tradition
fuck fundies
and most of all FUCK loomis

>>3902566
>He thinks he can draw his weebshit without Loomis

>>3902596
We can learn to draw with basically youtube alone. Loomis is obsolete and reading is for fags.

>>3902600
Fundamentals will remain the same, they will never become obsolete and you will always find yourself returning to the basic fundamentals regardless of style there is no avoiding it.

>>3902604
Do you think shadman reads up on your so called "fundamentals?"

>learning with youtube unironically
Just admit that you are afraid of books, you dumb nigger.

>>3902608
The reason Shadman can draw the way he does is because of fundamentals, though his style of choice limits potential however that is not to say he has not improved.

Are his faces proportioned to fit his style? Are his figures following overlapping forms? Does he work with simplified anatomy? Are his forms following a vanishing point? Are his panels utilizing composition to help lead the eye through? I've just listed you in a series of questions some very basic fundamental properties, don't get smart with us faggot.

>>3902611
is there a youtube video that teaches me how to read books?

>>3890632
Post work

>>3902604
In our utopia, we will tap into the power of the flow, the power that Vilppu possesses. With that flow, we will achieve its highest state and exceed any work that follows the order that is fundamentals. Chaos will succeed.

>>3902731
Now imagine what will happen if you combine solid fundamentals with the power of the flow.
Perfect unity, which is not achieved at an expense of parts, will always be superior to everything.

>>3902608
>>3902612
why the fuck would you want to draw like shadman, he makes literally the ugliest shit imaginable. it’s like if family guy fucked a webcomic.

>>3902752
normalfags have shit taste
more news at eleven

>>3893389
fake

>>3890632
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

>>3902796
Kek

>>3902796
top notch

>>3902796
based

>>3902796
Excellent post anon.

>>3902611
Marco Bucci 10 minutes video lessons were pretty gud

>>3905898
>Bucci
How tf are you even supposed to pronounce that, anyway?

>>3908680
Boo-chi

>>3908680
Buh-chee

>>3908680
ブッチ

>>3890632
You disappoint me /ic/, I wanted to share my power with you since the time I have to draw is robbed from me at frequent turns. I wanted to free /beg/ from its inevitable feeling of dissatisfaction when they draw boxes, circles, and triangles only to feel unhappy with the complete work. To enlightens others to what construction's antithesis can achieve.
Fundamentals are only half of power; and without the other; art from the inexperienced is hollow.

>>3893389
Th-the person who did that's just mentally disabled, r-rright?

>>3909415
No, not really
He just doesnt really care

>>3908680
Like Gucci.