/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3856602
use the erase tool to erase the shadings

>>3856637
oh.

>>3856638
Kek

>>3856659
Seriously though do you know any guides that go to the detail of pic in OP that are understandable for non japs?

Please someone tell OP because I want to know too.
Also if you have Jap guides share those too, I know a little Jap.

>>3856683

>>3856602
>>3856683

CSP and Sai tutorials in english are going to be your best bet, if only because the artists that use them do similar work.

I'm new to digital so all I personally know is direct painting and a couple basic things right now but it seems like there are a few major schools when it comes to illustration. Let's rule out direct painting for the sake of argument and look at other ways. He took linework, made flats, did core shadows in a multiply layer, blended a little, made a clipping mask and (air)brushed in gradients to smooth out brush strokes, flattened it and ran a little gaussian blur. That's a pretty standard workflow from what I can tell. A mask with alpha to opacity is going to give you precise value and edge control and take care of most of the blending without actually having to blend.

>>3856602
>>3856683
that's all

https://youtu.be/NE9mBWFkNF0

I'm using SAI, basically just hard edge airbrush, hard edge eraser and Water Tool

>>3856602
Use thin black lineart.
Make a layer of solid color for each base color you're putting down. (ex. skin, hair, each differently colored part of outfit)
Make a multiply layer. (The multiply makes it easier to pick appropriate shadow colors). Use a clipping mask to attach it to a base color. Add shadows. Repeat for multiple shadow colors, for each base color layer. Repeat process but with normal layers for highlights.
Then do some post processing stuff to tie it together and make it look better. Consider adding rim lighting, etc.
Something else to note is that the artist you posted uses mostly airbrush and very hard brush. There is no smudging there. That's what gives it the clean look.
Then learn to do everything tastefully

>>3856602
Loomis is the Loomis of the jap world

>>3856602
Well what's instantly clear from the pic is that you're completely missing the addition/glow layer. I usually use a base skin color layer, then I either use a multiply layer for the shadows or just paint them over the base color if I don't want to spend too much time messing with layers. This is where you seem to be at right now. Then I add a third layer which is for the hilights. You only use light brush strokes and a larger airbrush type brush for this part because otherwise it's really going to pop and look off (see the tits on your reference, that part would look pure white surrounded by sickly yellow for example). Then you can use this addition layer for giving the image some surrounding and "ambient" lighting, the soft "glow" you can barely see, but it'll make a huge difference. For example the skirt has some blue tint going on.

>>3856785
Thanks for the post, it opened my eyes.

>>3856602
Your art style seems familiar, got a blog?

>>3856602
Believe it or not, you're on the right track.

Add more shine to the boobs. Ditch whatever tool you're using for lines in favor of a pen with zero (0) opacity, and make it small. Like really small. The line art should like hard but clean.

The lighting in the hair needs to be sharper. As I said, you're on the right track, just continue to try and copy what you see exactly as you see it, don't try and go about coloring any way that you're used to because your way looks messy and undefined.

>>3856602
>I can't just "lol all you need is hard round brush" because I'm not going for a painterly style.
I... what? Dude, the hard round brush is for when you DON'T want the painterly style. For your specific example, japs just use the ink pen with no transparency. Hard round. Airbrush for certain shading, hard round brush + blend and soft-erase for the rest.

>>3856602
Draw at a retarded image resolution like 8000×16000 and then resize to 1000×2000. Sketch at a way zoomed out size then zoom in to add lineart and details. Make sure you use two views of the art so you can see what the fuck you are doing zoomed in. Also look up anime tutorials on pixiv, there are thousands of them under the 講座 tag or you can search anime tutorial on deviantart.

Most japanese CG artists use very thin lineart, a flat color base layer, airbrush simple shadows and highlights, then use a more defined brush to add simple details like the white highlights.

You won't get that crisp style without clean lineart and flatting your colors first.

>>3856791
>uses mostly airbrush and very hard brush

Sorry but what does it mean? Isn't airbrush just very soft brush? So you're saying to use both soft and hard brushes?

(I only have Photoshop so I may have some misunderstanding about the terms)

>>3857085

Yes. Airbrush in this context = soft round.

>>3857078

This, although I think that resolution is a bit on the excessive side. Half of that would suffice.

OP I would advice you to look up jap artists on places like pixiv and danbooru where you can often find high/full resolution works. It looks considerably less impressive when you see how it all looks in full resolution. Typically it's a bit rougher looking than you'd expect.

>>3856602
The left shading style looks like shit. Stop trying to copy a specific technique and instead get a deeper understanding of anatomy/forms and color/light. The best anime artists are the ones that actually know how to draw and aren't just putting random shiny blobs everywhere and mix&matching parts of pictures they've seen before.

>>3857157
>Stop trying to copy a specific technique and instead get a deeper understanding of anatomy/forms and color/light.

Do both. Pretty much every single professional artists learned through copying others

>>3857184
wtf no they dont lmao

>>3856602
Hope this can be of some help

>>3857191

>>3857157
Why the fuck does almost every anime artist have a different look to it despite the same process?

I'm enjoying this thread a lot please good hearted anons, keep posting good anime coloring tuts thanks :)

>>3857193
that’s called style, baby

>>3857157
I wasn't asking about fundamentals, I was asking about tool usage. Regardless of fundamentals, I was unable to recreate the shading on the left, and that would not change regardless of how good my fundamentals got unless I asked for help.

>>3857052
Yeah I said I didn't use a lineart layer (shouldn't impact the shading process though, I was experimenting), I'm able to do stuff like add shine to the boobs, but like just look at the details on her shorts, there's just so much and I want to use a better process

>>3857058
My bad lol I'm a total brainlet at this

>>3857032
it aint me, haven't actually posted anything on my profiles in a long time

>>3856727
>>3856731
>>3856736
those aren't the same level of shading as the pic I posted, urs posted is sharp cel shading which is pretty self explanatory. but the artist in first pic has so many soft transitions and colorful shadows I dont know where to start.

>>3857078
>>3857107
yeah I spend alot of time on gelbooru, I did notice that... but even so, they're always able to blend perfectly when they need to

>>3856791
I've literally never used multiply layers, can you show me a good guide as to when and how they should be used for shading? I mean I know what the layer itself does but it's confusing for me to apply it.

>>3857191
ok, never thought about it that way, I'll try this thx

Thanks for the replies guys! Now I'm looking for some elaboration on how exactly japs use multiply layers, and I wish there was an english translated video guide too

BY THE WAY, I use photoshop and I doubt I'll ever switch, I'm trying to make it work

>>3857190

You belong in the bad advice thread.

how do you use multiply layers to shade

>>3857228
Look up blend modes in Photoshop

>>3857228
It's just like regular shading; just use a light, desaturated colour. Multiply layers save time when the base layer has a lot of hue variation, otherwise the regular blend mode is probably more intuitive.

>>3857207

You have to switch anon. CSP and Sai drawing and painting wise is much better than photoshop.

>>3857295
honestly those programs are a nightmare for me, I don't understand what brushes are for what. one day I want to paint like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdRDYL5yTKU and he is always using photoshop. same as most riot games artists and they make beautiful and visually clear pics

>>3856602
Learn Japanese. It'll take 2 to 4 years. Then you can read all the painting books in their language.

>>3856602
Why does the source artist littlerly just draw Lefa and Sugaha?

>>3857295
Top fucking kek.
Professional artist literally make concept art and illustrations for actual movies in fucking photoshop. Ryan Meinerding does all of his shit in photoshop and you tell this guy to switch to sai?
Fuck off.


CSP is better for drawing though.

>>3857356
>fuck you for switching to the program literally built from the ground up for comic style work

I wish CSP would organize its brushes better tho... I just can't get the same feeling of painting in photoshop and there are less ressources for csp painting than there are in PS, hopefully CSP figures it out

>>3857336
Can't fault a man for being dedicated to his waifu

>>3857157
Couldn't find the source, please deliver it

>>3857437

Here's a handy tool anon http://iqdb.org/

>>3857356
>Professional artist literally make concept art and illustrations for actual movies in fucking photoshop. Ryan Meinerding does all of his shit in photoshop
Look man, use what you want, no harm there, but don't go using "muh industry standard" argument when the only reason it is "the standard" is because those old grumps grew up in a time when that was the case and refuse to switch to something better now that it is no longer the case and the market if flooded with better options.

In a decade, I will be proven right when today's up-and-coming artists become the new grumps telling everyone to use whatever software they're using now that will be outdated and surpassed by then.

>>3857295
>CSP and Sai drawing and painting wise is much better than photoshop.

Welp. Now I remember why I stopped coming to this place. Fuck you are all retarded.

>>3857488
Not an argument.

>>3857491
No argument is needed when you say something so stupid.

I think this is just what you need.

>>3858441
>pointo
What did he mean by this?

>>3858443
Maybe he means focal point.

>>3858441
How do you do step 8 where he changes the line color?

>>3858449

You change the line color either by locking transparency and filling it with color of your choice or use any of the standard color adjustment tools. Highlights are probably on a additive blending layer

>>3858452
But how do you fill if it's got bits and pieces unconnected? And how can you change the color if it has no color? Unless you always have to draw with at least 1 saturation.

>>3858454

As I said, you lock the transparency. You need to have it on a separate layer though. ctrl+u for hue/saturation in Photoshop. Increase lightness and check "colorize". In Clip Studio you have to assign some color to it first, correct.

>>3858454
As said above and below. You can even use a brush and pant sections different colors. Just lock the layer your line art is on and go at it.

Learn how to line art. Notice japs don't usually draw in that chicken scratch shit that western artists do.

>>3858914
Sorry for the shitty scans. This seems to be the method of rendering seems to be pretty common and streamlined.

>>3857488
Photoshop is fine for drawing but honestly the UI for CSP/Sai is so much more clean and organized for it.

>>3857207
Let's say you're shading skin. You want the shadows to look a little reddish/pinkish. So put down a color that's a mid-light red/pink/orange/etc on the multiple layer. Adjust for taste, contrast, etc. The multiply layer basically assures that the shadows will be saturated enough to not look weird.

>>3857089
I'm pretty sure he means this
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLI68ClDpxTYQ_mxSpKYIR9QyePD-uVBBV

Dumbarse question but does making linework have to be done on a linework layer (like the one in SAI)? Or is it doable on a normal layer, but with special brush? What's the norm? Tried using the linework layer once, it was so wonky everything went shit.
>>3857191 Let's take this pic as an example.

>>3857191
you missed panel 2 but I got you

>>3859166
no one uses linework layer

>>3859286
Seriously? Don't meme me please because I might actually believe you. And if so, what do people use to make linearts then?

>>3859361
Different guy here, wtf is linework layer?
Linearts are just carefully placed pixels on a normal layer as far as I know. Using normal brushes.

>>3858928
Thanks man.

>>3859361
>>3859386
I think anon might be referring to a vector layer.

>>3858935

It seems that you accidentally linked to a playlist. Or did you actually mean that I will get what he said after watching all of these?

>>3859166

You can use it if you like, but if you watch pros/semi-pros streaming on Pixis you will notice almost none of them uses that.

>>3857207
japs use clip studio, there are few that still use sai but mostly clip studio paint. post updates later please

>>3859166
just use a normal layer

>>3858914
Thanks anon. Book name pls?

>>3857157
>muh anatomy
Spotted the crab.

>>3863220
>anatomy doesn't matter
Spotted the absolute beginner who thinks pretty rendering can make any garbage foundations look good

>>3863235
Your work, post it.

>>3858441
Man, why the fuck aren't simple guides like this in the sticky. It's so intuitive and applicable yet I'm realizing how long it's going to take me to retrain my brain to do this because I fell for the "Just block out roughly and add detail" meme. It was never going to work

>>3860980
I haven't gotten around to doing anime coloring again. I've just been crabbing about my lineless painting being shit as usual, and the rest of the week I spent drawing. I will get around to it... tomorrow

>>3857193
Huh? I actually think it's the opposite. The rendering always has a similar and recognizable quality to it.

>>3858441
gave it a go. also in this guide, it's clear he's not just only using soft eraser, is that blend tool? Because the shade "gradients" go beyond their boundaries that they had when they were just flat colors. Either blend tool, or he's adding more pigment afterwards with soft brush, or im just retarded.

Either way, I wanna know what's going on for sure... no more guessing!

>>3863421
I don't have an answer for you, but either way, that looks pretty good.

>>3863253
I showed you my werk anon please respond. UwU

>>3856602
Unironically, get good. I could color the same way as left, ez pz

>>3863516
Very nice!

>>3863516
You can't even follow you're own advice lmao

>>3863694
Now post yours.

>>3857191
>>3857192
i tried

>>3863818
how now brown cow

>>3863884
That is ass.

>>3863979
Better than your trash

>>3863421
ur really close mate was trying to get this from another thread, simple answer, use a another layer to use a big brush on very soft to get the gradient erase wats not needed using a hard on some sides soft on others and then flatten it back

>>3863421
the other way a bit more destructive however is to circle the soft edge u want plus the distence u want the gradient to stretch and then use guasian blur and eyeball how far u want the blend to go

>>3861114
美少女イラストのリアルな肌の塗り方

>>3863516
that ear is massive

>>3866146
no wait sorry i just noticed its an elf, the hair going over it made it look retarded big.

>>3857191
I remember trying this but the value shading layer made my drawing really dark and muddy and it was hard to get the color back even with the overlay and screen layers

>>3856602

>>3866623
kek
nice work

>>3863884
This is pretty good. Shading is still a bit amateurish, but I can tell you're experienced.

How the fuck do I do clean lineart I'm losing it

You see how there are shaded parts with significantly "red" portions (some parts are even close to purple-ish)? You're completely missing that in your version. You also aren't going dark enough in some areas. In addition to that, you failed to employ the shiny parts of the skin.

>>3866623
OPPAI

>>3863351
>I fell for the "Just block out roughly and add detail" meme. It was never going to work
And what do you fucking think that jap is doing in point 3 then

>>3863351
>"Just block out roughly and add detail"
that's literally what the tutorial is doing.
"I fell for the [insert any well-established fundamental principle] meme" is the dumbest meme on /ic/.

>>3867884
>>3867901
That's not what I mean. By "just block out roughly and add detail", I mean in a literal sense. Just blocking out every major area of shade, whether it be shadow, highlight, new areas of color. This just doesn't work for clean anime styles, where the artist is using multiple layers and lots of planning. It seems obvious now but it wasn't before...

>>3866825
You missed the point of my post. I can obviously see that I didn't finish the shading on almost everything except the green skirt. I stopped, because I realized I was not going to be able to keep the shading clean and neat like in the original artwork.
Sure, the boob highlight isn't so hard to get, as an anon above showed, it's just some careful airbrushing. But look at the shading on the sides of her legs. Yeah, where it turns dark and purplish? I'm able to see it, but I have no idea where to start if I want to remake that effect.

"Just block it in" is clearly not going to work, as I've tried, unless I want my final product to look like >>3863516. His pic looks nice, but it's a definitely not a clean result and very far from what I'm trying to do.

>>3863516
disgusting style

>>3867901
Oh and just to clarify, I am not saying that "block in" is a useless fundamental principle. I am saying that it is just not enough information for a beginner to go on. I don't believe it is a good learning process for a beginner to just "guess and find your own process", as this is why there are so many shitty internet artists who never improve and use some retarded process. Your understanding of form, lighting and perspective ARE limited by how well you can translate them through your medium, and just fucking around with "block it in lol" doesn't cut it

>>3863516
Be mindful of the colors you are using. The edit I did was quick and overexaggerated, but a little saturation and a warmer color palette to match her gold hair is much more eyecatching in design than the muddy colors on the left.

>>3868107
Layers and Lasso tool. Isolate the area you want to apply the gradient effect and airbrush it in on a separate layer so it is easy to manage and erase, or lowering the opacity of.

>>3866623
>>3868107
>>3868188
Hope this kind of illustrates what I'm trying to say

>>3868199
but what you did there is vastly simplified compared to the original pic. look how the shadow seems to change color from top to bottom, fade out smoothly, and has a bit of a reddish/pinkish glow where it meets the unshadowed part of the neck

If it were just one value fading out I could obviously manage, or even two values clearly layered, but it just looks so smooth and beautiful I can't replicate it

>>3868250
You already have the skills and tools necessary to do what you are describing. You rendered her breasts pretty accurately. The edit I did was of course simplified, I am not going to do your study for you. However, that is a crucial step you seem to be missing. Your original shadow was more grey, desaturated. Airbrush in the reddish tone first, then the purple tone over it with a smaller airbrush or a lighter hand. After you have the colors you want, deselect and render away as you normally would by color picking/blending.

>>3868284
Okay, thanks man

>>3868184
>>3863516
this is fucking awful lmao

>>3869063
pyw fag

>>3859166
>>3859361
The linework layer is actually just a vector layer, which nobody uses except /beg/ and possibly for things like logo design (though they should just be using a real design software at that point), etc.

It's not a special brush, literally any will work as long as it's smooth enough. Mostly depends on preference. All you really have to do is draw really thin lines and go over it with thicker lines in places that need it.

>>3868250
>look how the shadow seems to change color from top to bottom

Learn to use adjustment layers to add color, then paint over to finish.

This style of coloring relies heavily on overlapping color gradations, clean colors and edges, and constant use of clipping masks. Don't try to do this on a single layer. Don't try to blend manually until the end, and only where necessary. Keep each layer to a single color. They are not blended, they are "composited".

>>3871424
I sort of get it, but what do you mean with adjustment layers? Like literal photoshop adjustment layers?

>>3868184
You made the colors worse

>>3868184
you oversaturated the hell out of it, a common newbie mistake

muted colors are better than hypersaturated, and I think ideal is a balance of muted and using saturation to push emphasis or focal points.

>>3874086
You can use adjustment or effect layers (such as color or overlay) to tint colors. Ideally, I would say keep your color shapes on separate layers and lock transparency or create clipping masks, and generally be smarter about your coloring process.

There are too many ways to do this in photoshop. Your example pic isn't really a demonstration of painting skill, but of a logical, efficient, and repeatable process on top of good lines, which is the main element missing from yours.

>>3857191
>>3857192
>>3859263
corrected in order

>>3875283
Why don't you guys try painting on 1 layer or even traditional so you know what all this layer bullshit is trying to emulate.

>>3875283
Rosetta is a goddess.

>>3866142

Is this uploaded anywhere.

bumpy road

>>3856602
Do you mean like anime-anime? Like the actual frames from SAO itself or do you mean the pic related?

I think you mean pic related, they probably use cel shading as masks to make paint gradients?

they use erasers, soft brushes, airbrushes, and select specific areas with brush selecting tools.

>>3856602
>lasso
>a lot of rendering
>knowing what they are doing
You also need to know what they hell you are doing, which you are clearly not. don't just try to copy the image, try to understand why, and don't worry about the mess you can always polish the damn thing later.

>>3857191
After making it light grey in step 3, how do you add the shading? Do you just choose a slightly darker grey at random?

>>3880144
>>3857191
>>3875283
This guide was designed for SAI mostly.

>>3857470
That explains everything. I see every fucking art youtuber use this software....not everyone but it's a large margin. Even usually traditional artist turn out they have Photoshop installed on their computer.

>>3863516
It looks good. The only real gripes are the torso and maybe the ears?

>>3868184
I kinda like the right more but it feels too bright in areas.

>>3877848
well anon cel-shading is literally obvious and straightforward, even 8 year olds go on paint on their first computer and do cel shaded anime art using paint bucket without anyone telling them how

>>3875366
I have already got a decent amount of mileage in traditional (pencil only) rendering, with the end result that I was good at doing 2d studies by copying what I see. I got into learning fundies and constructing from imagination but I was completely unable to translate this to digital art.

Why? Because with a pencil, you can just draw a light sketch and fade everything in from soft to dark, and it will look sharp. It literally doesn't work like this at all in digital. Unless you want some dirty painterly style with strokes visible, and for that you need to use brush texture brushes anyways.

The workflow is completely different, and not everyone just "gets it" by practicing. There are a million shitty internet artists who use a retarded method and never improve their rendering, though their fundies seem to get better.

Does anyone know any good anime artists that do yoshinari-esque rough pencily sketches, but digitally?

>>3881467
fuck, posted on the wrong thread