/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

And here's a demo reel for all you fuck's who think simple designs make animation less impressive:
https://youtu.be/5osZk9Mw94w

>>3783533
Yeah I was in that thread on /co/ and had a bout of depression.
When they started throwing around the Richard Williams webms I wanted to die

>>3783549

I think the James Baxter episode of Adventure Time was addressing this directly.
You can admire someone's skill but you should be trying to pursue your own skills in your own way. If you're trying to chase the successes of another artist you're always going to come up short.

>>3783549
Wow, I'm envious as fuck.

>>3783533
Please take all the James baxter cock sucking threads to /co/
Also if this is your pinnacle of animation you should watch more anime

>>3783549
Theres no way this was all done by a human being.

>>3784424
>Also if this is your pinnacle of animation you should watch more anime

Please tell me your joking

>>3783549
fukc

>>3784424
>Also if this is your pinnacle of animation you should watch more anime
Jesus fucking Christ. The absolute state of /ic/.

>>3784424
Have a (You) faggot

Yikes

>>3784429
Final scene

>>3783549
>>3783552
>>3784501
Isn't this from that animated film that never got released?

>>3784585
Thief and the Cobbler

>>3784585
Thief and the Cobbler was released, but severely butchered. You can watch the recobbled cut that patches it back up to be more inline with the original vision.

>>3784424
this tbqh

>>3784631
Best thing about this site is that I have no idea if you believe you're being genuine or not.

>>3784636
Why would it be so hard to imagine that in a country where hand drawn animation isn't dead, there would be talented animators living and animating there.

>>3784648
I feel like you're trying to argue a point no one brought up

>>3784653
>people laugh at the idea that the pinnacle of animation might be found in anime
>I point out that japan is the only country in the world with a succesful 2D animation industry
>Hurr not related
Yea, I'm thinking you better back off before I go psychomode on your ass

>>3784657
I'm not that interested

>>3784661
>I-I don't even really care!
>still replies

>>3784666
So, what sort of animation do you like? Got any examples?

>>3784684
Yutaka Nakamura
Norio Matsumoto
Mitsuo Iso

there are too many great Japanese animators to name all of them, but these are some of my favourites.

This is not even his final form.

>>3784691
I like how they're able to convey that much frantic motion with so few inbetweens. Do you have more examples?

>>3784657
This is like saying that Americans have the best food because they're the most obese country

>>3784700
>good 2d animation industry = good 2d animation
>obese population ≠ good food
That's retarded.

>>3784704
>good 2d animation
It's really not that common.
You got some decent pose to pose, but real strong sakuga is actually pretty rare. Otherwise they rely on tricks like shaky cam and effects to hide a lack of weight, simple arcs, bad follow through, and very little ease in/out. And a lot of that can be blamed on bad work environment and harsh schedules that force rushed productions, but the end results rarely speak well in the end.

>>3784691
>Sword of the Stranger

>>3784648
>in a country where hand drawn animation isn't dead
sure, dude kek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp9wBqIUQ7g

>>3784799
>hey that looks pretty cool
>take a look at the comments
>they agree
based

>>3784799
I wish the guy didn't keep interrupting the animation with his commentary.
I feel the visuals should speak for themselves.

>>3784691
>choreography
>animation
>”same thing”

You’re dumb as hell and so are the rest of these weeaboo retards

>>3784799
Terrible biased video with irritating, unfunny edits that distracts from the actual animation.
>let's slow down every shot to quarter speed and look at the individual frames instead of analyzing each sequence as a whole
>haha funny music and sound fx
Surprised the video doesn't have more dislikes desu.

>>3784830
>Imagine to be seething like that because you don't want to admit japanese animation is generally pre-packaged shit

>>3784826
I challenge you to post any western animation that comes even close to the complexity of these cuts.

Both the choreography and animation is absolute stellar.

>>3784834
>imagine having nothing better to do than sitting in your dirty underwear in a dark room hunched over your keyboard trying to provoke random people online
I'm sorry but that's genuinely sad. A hobby might help, or try calling your parents for advice? :)

>>3784842
>try calling your parents for advice? :)
Joke's on you, buddy. I still live with my parents. ;)

>>3784826
pretty sure choreography plays a massive part in appealing animation
>>3784834
oof imagine being this sad

>>3784835
I would, but I'm having trouble finding anything animated at such a low framerate

>>3784835
That is not good animation. That is good

Design
Choreography
Staging
Etc.

It is shit-tier animation and you're an absolute retard if you think otherwise

>>3784862
Higher framerates =/= good animation

The reality is just that there is no western animation that compares to this stuff, it just doesn't exist.

https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/17065
You can feel the weight and scale when you look at something like this.

Disney animation is good too, but it's really like comparing apples to oranges.
>>3784866
What's wrong with the animation? I would love to hear your critique on it.

>>3784884
>Higher framerates =/= good animation
Anon, at a certain point it's just a slide show.

>>3784884
I'm more interested in why you like it so much and what you personally think is good about it.

>>3784902
Okay, that's pretty obvious?

>>3784910
Fluent consistent movement, advanced choreography, impressive manipulation of perspective, making use of the environment, cool
animated special FX.
>>3784902
Tween animation is high framerate, but it's not good animation.

>>3784918
Can I see some examples of those from other shows you like?

>>3784884
It’s literally two japanese guys teleporting and spinning around on evenly-spaced key frames with a shaky camera, dark colors and blur effects to obscure a bunch of unnatural movements like that retarded “flying trip” at the end. I don’t think either of the chracters’s legs are even portrayed in a passing position once. From an animation standpoint even a student’s walk cycle is more impressive than this. There is good japanese animation but this isn’t even close. Considering the 12 principles of animation this sequence exhibits like 3 of them.

>complexity
>two guys fighting with swords

lol

>>3784902
>just a slide show
You just described animation lol

>>3784925
Usually there's a bit less times between the frames for that.

>>3784923
>two japanese guys
one of them is a westerner, the blondie

>>3784923
Ah yes the
>If it doesn't look like a generic disney cartoon it's shit

The movement is being exaggerrated for dramatic effect, it's not unnatural or obscure in the slightest to me. And blurry? There are barely, if at all, any blur effects in these cut.
If you consider an animations walkcycle more impressive than this, then I hope to god that no one ever hires you to do anything creative ever in your life.

>>3784934
>>If it doesn't look like a generic disney cartoon it's shit
Astonishing that you where able to get that from literally nothing at all.

>>3784935
I know when fools start bringing up muh 12 rules of animation and characters legs being potrayed in a "passing position"
Like you need to animate everything like the Iron Giant for it to be good animation.

>>3784943
Anon, even skilled Japanese animators care about the 12 principles.
They're not western only concepts. They're the keys to replicating the illusion of movement

>>3784445
>>3784468
>>3784456
Not him, but because it's a larger and more lucrative industry, anime sees a higher number of much better developed animators.

Yutaka Nakamura, Bahi JD, Yoh Yoshinari, just to name a few.

No westerner has ever even come close to Yutapon's iconic cut from Sword of the Stranger. In fact, most westerners have regressed into drawing simpler and much more stylized characters to cut the workload, while Japan is pushing out stuff like Violet Evergarden and so on...

It's not even a fault of western animators, or the industry per say, I'm sure western talent could be as good given the chance to develop, however, the western audience still sees 2D animation as only for kids, and this mindset has hurt the western industry and its growth at large. You will never see anything even close to Akira ever get made by the west. Ever. Industry's just not developed enough, and that's just a fact. So get butthurt all you like, but it's true western animators are eons behind the Japs. Getting mad or calling someone a weeb isn't gonna change that. Anime has such strong appeal in the west, because western cartoons just don't even compare.

>>3784949
I know, but it's a common argument these people use and will very often supplement it with a .gif of a Disney character doing something in the very generic Disney animation style as to imply if it doesn't look like this then it's shit.

To the retard sucking off JB.

I challenge you to find anything that comes even remotely close to these gifs.

>>3784978

>>3784978
Why would you challenge them? You know they can't compete.

>>3784980
deal is, I shouldn't even be posting gifs, as they eat the framerate, I should be linking you to the videos.

But I could find 1000s of cuts of this quality or higher, whereas from the west, you'd be lucky to find a handful that can even be compared.

>>3784424
Based

>>3784982
cringe and autismo

>>3784978
It's a great scene, but you're more showing off how effects can add to a scene rather than the dynamic animation that really makes that scene what it is.

>>3784978
Wow, those 13 frames sure are flashy

>>3784978
>a handful of held drawings of a guy flailing his arms around

>>3784980
>spinning surrounded by a bunch of 3d models and filtered photographs

>>3784982
>”I have to go now, my planet needs me”-tier

Every single Disney movie and even early 20th century Looney Tunes features have better animation than this. This is embarrassing, you’re either baiting right now or still completely oblivious to what animation is because nothing you’ve posted is anywhere near as good as even the most mediocre and inconsequential portions of the reel OP posted from an animation standpoint. The existence of weeaboos should be encouraging for animators though, apparently you can draw like 6 tenuously related frames and they nut themselves as long as you stage them correctly.

>>3784995
Ok, enjoy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRuP4TNk01w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMoUkRh3ohM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k34Nw9QJrig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqThGaK5Zx4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH7-LxjT5V4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iounOj1VRUU


Fuck, just try and even find something that comes remotely close to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzClCJFpSoM

>>3784993
Fuck off retard.

>>3784613
Or if very lucky, catch a screening of the workprint. It's very unfinished, but some scenes look superior to the recobbled cut, in particular the opening credit scene.

>>3783549
This is just stupid and a waste of time i bet it took months to do. You could get a much faster identical result using 3d. When people arent smartly economical with their work it annoying to me. I hate how he insists everything should be on 1s too

>>3785015
>spinning surrounded by a bunch of 3d models and filtered photographs

>>3785041

>>3784978
>>3784980
>>3784982
>>3785030
Honestly the only western animation I know that maybe comes close to those is this:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqsV1AwIIew
And it was animated by one guy.

>>3784978
>>3784980
>>3784982
>>3785030
These are great effects animations, but actual character animation is mostly really ridged pose to pose.
They're fine poses, but there's very little actual animation between them. Like, don't get me wrong, they all look fantastic, but they're not really impressive in the same way animation like James Baxter or Richard Williams character animation is. Very organic and life like.
Anime is very focused on direct emotional impact. Make it thrilling and flashy, or cute and bubbly. And it can be very good at that in a surprisingly minimal way through dynamic effects, staging, and a very strong sense of style.

High quality western animators tend to focus on more grounded realism. Trying to emulate the beauty of life to reflect the characters emotion, rather than imprinting the effects of the animation onto the characters.
They're just focusing on different things, and both schools of approach have extremely talented people behind them, both in Japan and outside of it.

>>3785054
Ok:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9lT5MshbXI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaokHCLggB4

There's plenty of examples of fluid and subtle character animation in anime as well. Especially when it comes to machines. Hell, the entirety of Violet Evergarden is practically full of small subtle movements that enhance the emotion. And you've got lots more fluid animation in the likes of Mob Psycho and just about anything Yutapon touches.

It seems you've just got it in your head that more frames = better animation, when that's not the case. Japs generally draw in twos, but you see them dip into ones from time to time too. They prefer snappy and more dynamic poses. However, if we were to objectively compare both spheres, west doesn't even come close the the stuff Japan is putting out. Especially now that the west have moved to 3D. The Japs have completely outclassed the west simply as a rust of having a larger industry for tons of artists to develop their skills with a broad range of subjects and themes. Meanwhile, in the west animation kinda died off sometime after Walt, and Fantasia. You had some good stuff in the likes of the Lion King and so on, but it slowly stagnated, until it ended up where it is today. You can literally only name two animators in the west who are top tier artists, while Japan has hundreds, each with their own unique style and identity, and each that has pushed the medium to even greater and more unimaginable heights. Japan is the only place keeping the spirit of Walt alive in their work, the west has largely tossed it out in favor of the more economic 3D.

>ITT: Retards sperg "muh murica / nihongo animation is better and ur opinion sucks" and procrastinate further

>>3785049
God, amateur productions always have the worst fucking sound effects holy shit. Dedicated sound guys are never a bad idea.

>>3784704
>good 2d animation industry = good 2d animation
But anime isn't a good animation industry.

>>3785049
I lost it when he used the mice to climb the fucking cliff.

>>3785062
>It seems you've just got it in your head that more frames = better animation, when that's not the case.
No anon. You just need SOME frames to have decent animation.
You however seem to have confused flashy effects as good animation. Which, they are, but not the focus of the thread, which is about the beauty of subtle and buttery smooth character animation in James Baxter's work.

The actual character movements in those scenes are very stiff and average. The only things moving in the violet evergarden clip are hair, cloth, and sometimes a shoe bending. You want good character animation in anime, you look to Akira and Ghost in the Shell. Show off chase scenes from Miyazaki films or Golden Era Toei films like Animal Treasure Island. Not overblown gaudy garbage like motherfucking Violet God Damn Ever Shitting Garden.
Christ.

>>3784835
>>3784691
>ERMEGEHD THEY HAVE SWORDS AND THEY'RE SPINNING
>IT'S BARELY INTELLIGIBLE BECAUSE IT'S ANIMATED AT 3FPS AND IT'S COMPLETELY WEIGHTLESS BUT DUDE SWORD FIGHTING NINJAS / ROBOTS / EXPLODING PLANETS N SHIET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
t. every anime fan ever

You simply can't objectively evaluate animation that isn't about some idiotic teenager action shit.

>>3785062
>mob psycho
>subtle or fluid animations

loooool

>more frames = better animation

Not saying that at all, they just generally don't deviate from "halves" spacing, seldom if ever use slowing in or out and overuse stupid effects to obscure their nignorance when it comes to character animation. They are good at saying a lot with a little but that doesn't make it good in and of itself

>Japanese generally animate on twos

They animate on threes (look it up). In their defense (!?) their character designs are often too complex to be animated well in the traditional sense, especially on a tv budget.

>>3785062
I've no interest in taking sides it just irks me seeing some of the anime you've picked out, I imagine you're the type to subscribe to youtube channels highlighting certain sakuga or artists while they talk about their influence? This will come across as an autistic complaint where i'm questioning your integrity as you've not seen as many chinese cartoons as I think you should have and in a way thats what it is. You mention that there are hundreds of animators having honed their craft yet you're name dropping only the most well known, heres hoping you start to discover more than the most entry level content.

>>3785094
Are you just gonna turn into a dickwaving contest of who has the most obscure knowledge and taste now you fucking hipster? Fuck off, that's not what this thread was ever about. I used the most mainstream examples because that's what was the forefront of my mind. Why the fuck would I wanna show off "how much I know and how many anime I've seen" on an anonymous imageboard? Like, what's there to fucking gain here?

>>3785076
Japan >>>>>>>> West, in animation.

That's a fact. Keep moving goalposts all you like, but the point keeps getting made 1000x.

>>3785099
Because Violet Evergarden is tacky as fuck anon.
It's the Fabergé egg of the anime world. Known for being expensive and adorned in jewels, but just kinda ugly if you actually look at it.

>>3785103
I don't give a fuck about that. I'm just sick of you acting like effects animation is important in a James Baxter thread.

>>3785099
>Like, what's there to fucking gain here?
Reread what you wrote, anon

>>3785106
I think maybe you just need to get your eyes checked m8.

>>3785110
>ZOMG HE DRAWS IN ONES SO FLUID!!

You don't even animate do you? Shut up.

>>3785099
I expected that to hit a nerve. It's not exactly meant to be such a harsh personal attack its just that if you do know more I'd expect you to be pulling better examples up rather than the most surface level ones. The examples you're choosing paint a picture of someone whos not watched much, doesn't know much and regurgitates shit from youtube channels. If this isn't true then I'm sorry, you should however put more fucking effort into picking out examples so as to not look like someone who started watching anime in the last 5 years or less.

>>3785127
>Thread was made about James Baxter.
>Bring up shit that's not even in his wheelhouse like effects heavy animation
>Belittle the point of what makes his animation impressive
Anon.

>>3785125
VEG was gaudy as hell and only really impactful for brainlets. If it wasn't for the copious amounts of post processing and if it didn't come from kyoani no one would have given two shits about it

>>3785125
It's extremely gaudy anon. It's like seeing someone shove lens flares and depth of field effects all over their work because they think it'll look better.

I hate this place

>>3785142
Then you are truly one of us.

>>3785080
>COMPLETELY WEIGHTLESS
did u watch the clips

>>3785151
There's really not a lot of ease in/out in their movements to convey a lot of weight anon.

>>3785153
There's a difference between COMPLETELY WEIGHTLESS and having quick movement, Yutaka Nakamura obviously prioritized a hectic fast paced sword fight as opposed to a fight with more weight and momentum like Mitsuo Isos NGE scene
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/17072

>>3785159
Clearly. But therein lies the limitation of working in such a low framerate. The characters move with energy but without any room for ease frames, they lack substantial impact. That's why the camera jitters around in an attempt to mask the lack of weight.

>>3784978

>>3785164
I feel plenty of weight and impact, the screen shake isn't hiding anything, that would have been there regardless if it was animated on 1s or 2s.

>>3785062
>Parasol scene
It's easy to get fluidity when your character's in a 3D environment and is barely moving

>>3785164
Do you think the camera jitter is there to hide the low frame rate or an independent stylistic choice? I can't picture the meeting where they chose to do that in post because of whatever budget or timeframe issue they had.

>>3785168
>that would have been there regardless if it was animated on 1s or 2s
Then maybe it shouldn't have been

>>3785170
>I can't picture the meeting where they chose to do that in post because of whatever budget or timeframe issue they had.
Really? It seems like a great way to try to make a scene seem more intense with minimal effort.

>>3785171
why? it's a tool like any other animation trick.

>>3785175
Because it's just a post effect that has nothing to do with fluid hand drawn 2D animation which has been the focus of this thread from the beginning, even before some anon came in and started crying that people enjoyed a famous western animator rather than only praising his precious sakuga masters from the promised land of Nihon like the filthy Western pig dogs they are?

>>3785125
Violet Evergarden is shit.

Here's 10 minutes of raw pencil animation from Akira: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxt0TygJdwI

And the ending to Bobby's In Deep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3AMYVrTDgg

I wish more Japanese productions could afford Akira-tier framerates so their best could really flex their muscles.

>>3785182
I like you, fren
Here's a flipbook Hideaki Anno drew as a practical assignment for college

>>3785174
Given the people involved I think it's a stylistic choice from the offset rather than one that was done after the fact. A glance at what they've worked on like FMA, Bebop, Birdy the mighty, Canaan and whatever others use this. Could it be what the director likes? Perhaps. Does he use it regardless of the framerate of the animation? Yes.
I think we can agree it doesn't really hide anything, realistically speaking. It's not quite the same as editing in live action whereby you can cut and shake your way to make fights appear more real (in a relative sense, if the action was displayed similar to a Jackie Chan film then it'd look worse without the cuts.)
Does shaking the camera around during an action seen look good? I'd argue no but thats not we are talking about.

>>3785193
Fair enough

>>3785180
Why are you so butthurt??

>>3785180
a little impact screenshake effect isn't taking anything away from the animation, come on

>>3784424

>>3785200
Because I wasted my day entertaining some weeb's shit he probably doesn't even really believe instead of focusing on my commission.

Who else derails a fucking James Baxter thread to cry about how people aren't talking about anime instead? I'm so pissed at myself for wasting my time like this again

>>3785222
>Who else derails a fucking James Baxter thread to cry about how people aren't talking about anime instead?
can't blame him, I get annoyed too when some autist who animates everything on 1s is getting hailed as the second coming of animation christ by tumblrites who loves children cartoons like steven universe and adventure time.

>>3785233
Exactly. Normies tend to think "smoothness" = quality.

>>3785233
>>3785239

But do you REALLY believe that? Do you actually have such a strong conviction on this or are you just trying to test ideas to see what sticks, then claiming you're just looking for reactions when pressed far enough?

>>3785233
>I get annoyed too when some autist who animates everything on 1s is getting hailed as the second coming of animation christ
They probably do it because it looks amazing.

>>3785233
>some autist who animates everything on 1s is getting hailed as the second coming of animation christ by tumblrites who loves children cartoons like steven universe and adventure time.
This.

Nothing worse than all the elitist tumblrites on /co/ and their elitist hateboner for anything anime. It's like, bro. You're literally watching shit made for children using low effort CalArts designs, you've got no room to be elitist about anything at all.

>>3785249
>Nothing worse than all the elitist pedos on /ic/ and their elitist hateboner for anything western. It's like, bro. You're literally watching shit made for teens using low effort stock anime designs, you've got no room to be elitist about anything at all.
This is actually a decent little pasta

>>3785247
>They probably do it because it looks amazing
If you actually animated, you'd realize it's really not that impressive. Key framing is way more important, and the Japs have the west totally beat in that category. but retards will just regurgitate "muh smoothness" again and again cause tgey know fuck all about anything.

Literally show James Baxter Yutapon's work on Sword of the Stranger and he'll be more than impressed. Choreographing a fight with so much flow and perfect attention to detail, using such complex character models is WAAAAAAY more difficult than making a cartoony character made up of circles rubber hose in 1s.

>>3785259
Imagine being do butthurt at people not liking your SJW trash.

Maybe make a quality product for once, then people might tune. The Japs made Akira, why can't you?

>>3785261
>If you actually animated, you'd realize it's really not that impressive
I guess that's why most industry animators don't really care for him and he's remained an obscure nobody begging for work.

>>3785266
>James Baxter
>SJW trash
He's just an animator anon.

>>3785244
it is pleasant to look at, but yea, I'm not buying the second coming of animation christ thing, he's impressive, but not anything out of the ordinary to me.
>>3785247
If you definiton of amazing is smooth, then yeah.

>>3785270
Hes hired because hes a good animator NOT because of 1's, theres a distinction being made here.

>>3784884
90% of the intensity in these clips is the camera shake lmao

>>3785270
He's strong in other areas and was there during the golden years. He has a legacy. But you're focused on "muh smoothness," when that's literally the least impressive aspect of his work, and again, he still loses to tge Japs, who've pushed the medium to much greater heights.

This is not the creators' fault. The west WOULD have equally impressive work if the industry was as large and the public opinion embraced animation as much more than a way to draw cartoons for kids like Japan does. Sadly, that's not the case, and thus Japan as much better talent.

>>3785276
Now you're just being autistic anon, it is widely acknowledged that this scene is one of the best animated fights ever made.

>>3784835
I love Nakamura stuff but he's nowhere near the level of the old masters, eastern or western. He does his job well, which is mainly short s a k u g a cuts, riddled with tricks and fast camera cuts. Notice how the camera barely changes, and the clips you post are all very short.

I fucking hate SU and hate to say this, but the actual animation in the clip is downright amazing. Good, lively, fluid character acting >>> frantic sakuga fight with lots of tricks and no subtlety. I too visit sakugabooru but there's better stuff than what you're posting, man.

>>3785271
I'm talking about western cartoons you moron.

>>3785273
>I'm not buying the second coming of animation christ thing
I don't think anyone is?
They're just talking about him because of his impressive scene in the latest Steven Universe episode.

>>3785281
its widely acknowledged that we need more diversity in the workplace too anon, do you agree

>>3785282
Here's another moron who doesn't animate and is impressed by shitty 1s on simple models.

>>3785275
>>3785280
So if he's so good in other places, why are we whining about Anime in his thread?
Why bring up anime at all? It has nothing to do with him or his work

>>3783534
Simple designs are great if they're actually used to make things more charming and fluid , animation-wise. Sadly, western studios haven't been holding up their end of the bargain. Designs have been getting extremely simplified and lazy, yet the animation is lackluster or worse.

>>3785288
>widely acknowledged
No it's not.

By whom?

A loud and obnoxious minority does not represent the general opnion. They're just the ones making the most noise.

>>3785284
Oh. I was just talking about the one animator.

If animating on 1's is so easy to get such impressive results, why doesn't Japan do it outside of slow motion shots?

>>3785290
Because you're getting worked up over nothibg, when far more impressive stuff regularly comes out of Japan.

A cartoon horse jumping around in 1s doesn't even come close to a milisecond of Akira.

>>3785289
>seething this much
Stay mad, sakugafag.

>>3785295
Because their drawings are far more complex and detailed. Are you retarded?>>3785296

>>3785297
Yes, stupid people tend to make me rather angry when they say stupid things.

>>3785290
It's a discussion
>>3785247
I think the issue is that people are trying to talk about animation and are frustrated that people look at smooth and equate that to being 'good animation', you could hypothetically have a highframe rate poor animation? no?
Lets not talk past each other.
>>3785295
Bait? It's time consuming? Why don't you walk everywhere? is it too hard?

>>3785282
Fast camera cuts are tricks now?
No, I'm not buying it, not even a weeb, I don't watch anime, I have no real bias, Nakamura isn't the best out there, but he is infinitely more impressive than anything the west has ever produced.
>>3785295
because it takes an autistic amount of time and work, animation is already a low paying job in Japan in the first place, imagine if they could only get half the work done in the same amount of time.

>>3785296
>>3785299

Well I find the smooth animation more impressive than effects and posing. Sorry anon. I just think it looks better.

>>3785304
Maybe you should learn to get over it.

>>3785310
then you're a simpleton

>>3785310
Yes, because you don't animate, and don't understand what actually goes into it.

It's no different from the normies on facebook who think over-rendered turds with bad perspective are good, because they're well-rendered. Don't be surprised when people call you out on your ignorance and point you toward better talent.

The fact that you like it more, or find it more impressive doesn't make it so. Your subjective opinion doesn't factor into anything, it only exists to show the rest of us how ignorant you really are.

>>3785315
By what objective means, anon?

>>3785318
you like simple things as opposed to complex things

>>3785313
Maybe you should stop being a low IQ nigger

>>3785296
>Anime fan names one of the 3 well animated movies in anime history
I hate this episode

>>3785317
Do you animate?
Can I see your work anon?

>>3785318
You're impressed by simple things.

>>3785320
Complex like this?
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/14593

>>3785321
Afraid I can't help that anon. You'll just have to learn to deal with it.

>>3785309
Instead of animating the character in several perspectives/angles, you just pop the "camera" to the next scene. This isn't exclusive to anime sakuga. Both east and west have fallen back on this in the last decades. I actually prefer anime overall, especially considering the current state of western animation.

>>3785324
Sruff like this
>>3783549
Doesn't exactly look simple.

This however:
>>3784691
Looks very simple.
Easy to break down. Pose to pose. Blur sword into direction. 2 frame sparks. Little shaky cam. Tasty snack.

>>3783549

richard williams is the ideal artist in terms of skill. other artists can be wild and expressive and things like that, but you gotta focus on guys like this for a high pinnacle to reach.

>>3784978

it's just an explosion. people who expect people to lose their minds over this sort of thing should let the weeb and orientalism flow out of their ears. that steven universe animation spoke to, probably, millions with how expressive and well-drawn it is.

there's plenty of people on the internet that could make you a very realistic painting of a guy fighting a zombie or whatever, but that doesn't mean they're capable of depicting a scene that can move thousands of people with great cartooning skill.

>>3785295

As far as productions go, animating on ones is a reflection of budget and time, not skill. Japan doesn't have budget.

Inbetweening is the lowest of the low entry level job in traditional animation. That's not to say it doesn't require skill. Poor inbetweens can ruin good keyframes. But when a piece of animation is done well, most of the credit should go to the keyframes. So that's what animators look at. You should be able to separate good keyframe drawing from smooth animation.

>>3785144
This is /ic/ at its worst, really. This very thread is the essence of /ic/.
Someone says "hey, I like this artist! Look!" and instead of people saying "yeah! Let's post more good shit!" and celebrating artists and art, we get a chaotic horde of monkeys screeching and flinging shit and trying to one-up what the other guy posted in the most completely uninformed, tasteless, stupid, vapid way imaginable.
It honestly gives me a little nausea.

>>3785332
So anime has learned to make due by animating as little as necessary and instead focusing on dynamic effects and smart posing?

>>3785334
I just want an anonymous artist community without drama

>>3785325
that's alright, character acting is admittedly pretty hard to pull off
>>3785329
I would agree if they kept cutting to simple camera shots, but Nakamura keeps cutting to more and more dynamic angles.
>>3785335
And at the same time completely embarassed the west? Yes.
>>3785330
This however >>3783549
Looks very simple.
Easy to break down, Perspective shot, move camera down. Tasty snack.

>>3785335
Yes, watch the making of Kill la kill where they discuss those techniques with reference to the "pioneers" at the time.

>>3785334
This is good, this is good. This is the god damn art dojo. Even when you can paint like da vinci you should feel like shit and think you still arent good enough.

Otherwise you are going to end up like the tumblr tards all drawing the same looking red nosed crap over and over


You should feel a sense of the sublime when creating art. You love it but it will destroy you

>>3785341
>And at the same time completely embarassed the west?
That really only seems to be from the perspective of weebs. Which...has no value.

>>3785341
>Richard Williams Staircase scene
>Easy to break down
I BEG of you to show me an anime with the same level of thorough and continuous complexity and use of perspective over that many frames.

>>3785343
The fuck are you on?

>>3785335
Sure, one can say that, although I think "animating as little as possible" is a mischaracterization. They animate efficiently.

In any case, I don't care so much to prove whether one style of animation is better than the other. What is true is that the Japanese approach has allowed the artform to remain largely domestic, while we've had to ship jobs overseas. Japan definitely wins on practicality.

The Steven Universe episode this clip is from actually makes a good argument for the Japanese approach to cartoon production. The James Baxter segment is great and beautiful, while the rest of the episode looks like an average episode. Choosing to allot extra time and effort on a single scene is a very anime thing to do, and it made the episode stand out. People should be learning from that.

>>3785342
That's really impressive. Would you happen to have a link on hand?

>>3785351
Im on the low self esteem drives you to perfection diet

>>3785348
>...
Amazing how three little dots can show how much of a ass licker you are. I can almost smell the stench of your rainbow-dyed armpit hair and upvotes through the screen.

>>3785359
That is one of the dumbest fucking things I've ever read on this or any other site.

>>3785350
because it's not easy to break down, I was just showing him how retarded his own breakdown was.
But since you asked, this one comes close
https://youtu.be/XrLyefV8-4w?t=63

>>3785360
Just reached right up your ass to get that one huh? Just really dug right into your own shit to find something to argue with.

>>3785355
You could have googled it quicker than asking, same as I could tell you. I'd rather you find it for yourself though.
>>3785350
I'm not who you've quoted and I'm not about to downplay any of how complex stairs and the work that went into Thief is. I'm just linking these in the hopes you appreciate the animation all the same.
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/8332
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/28450
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/66410

>>3785334

>ITT: Constantly linking to sakugabooru as an argument

>>3785367
okay anon you win anime is better.
:^)

>>3785372
based, I'm glad we've come to an agreement.

>>3785367
>You could have googled it quicker than asking, same as I could tell you. I'd rather you find it for yourself though.
Just trying to keep up a friendly conversation about your interests anon. I assumed you would have cared enough to readily share your resources

>>3785375
It's great to talk to people about shared interests, its also nice to know that they're capable of digging for information themselves. I just want you to be the best you can be, you might even find more things to watch in the related videos. Like the making of Little witch academia, Yasuo Otsuka's Joy in Motion, Memories - Documentary, The Kingdom of Dreams and Madness, The Making Of Kick-Heart and so on. Happy hunting.

>>3785382
>its also nice to know that they're capable of digging for information themselves.
But it's YOUR information to share.
You're asking people to do research you've already done for no other reason than to see them do it and then mask your laziness by pretending it's some kinda self help initiative right out of the blue.

>>3785382
>capable of digging for information themselves
This isn't about that anon. If you're going to make an argument you should at least put in the effort.

>>3785386
I'm asking people to use a readily available search engine, something that could have been done with the keywords "making of kill la kill" quicker than asking for a link.
>>3785390
What argument is being made?
My statement is that people should search on google prior to asking others. That said the link could have been supplied when it was referenced, should people cite their sources at all times? I wouldn't complain if they did, I also wouldn't expect it of them in a more casual discussion.

Common /a/sshole ruins another /ic/ thread

>>3784965
>No westerner has ever even come close to Yutapon's iconic cut from Sword of the Stranger.
>Japan is pushing out stuff like Violet Evergarden

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOO THIS IS THE FUNNIEST BOARD ON 4CHAN

>Weebs still think Japan has the best animators when animating Disney gods like Glen Keane, Andreas Deja and Eric Goldberg are still alive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COC3oF3euhA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=699-i7uI1D4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvKAFDf2l8s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qnQqXr838E

>>3785309
>not even a weeb, I don't watch anime, I have no real bias, Nakamura isn't the best out there, but he is infinitely more impressive than anything the west has ever produced.

>>3785309
>Nakamura isn't the best out there, but he is infinitely more impressive than anything the west has ever produced.

(you)

Ok how about this, both anime and cartoon animation can be good. However, shit teir animators only inspired by the media they watched who some how get into the business make things much worse.

>>3785536
Finally.

>>3785536
/thread

>>3785519
>>3785530
u can't name a single western animator that can do anything that is even slightly close to Nakamura.
Literally all the anti-anime people in this thread has posted shitty reaction images and (you) reponses. You have no arguments.

Fuck all ya niggas, Baxter is a goddamn king and it’s okay to suck off more than just one animator. Baxter deserves the credit and wonder he’s receiving, but that doesn’t mean I don’t think Redline is one of the most visually compelling movies I’ve ever seen.

I'm seriously considering printing out this thread so I can projectile vomit on it

>>3785588
Most of the big Disney Renaissance animators shit would shit on Nakamura. Just stop

>>3785594
Please do so an post results. You are what this thread deserves.

>>3785142
this is the worst thread i've seen in a while

what is impressive here? seems just like another episode of animation is hard

t. animationlet

>>3785639
This

>>3785054
this is a great analysis in a thread full of biased misinformation

>>3784691
>>3784835
>>3784884
>Sword of the Stranger
Based.
For anyone unimpressed by these, the clips in question are noteworthy not necessarily for the choreography (which is still good) but for the perspective and timing that together make the action enthralling and convincing. That's in spite of the limited framerate. Nakamura's able to do this because he's talented/practiced and knows where and how each character should be positioned in each keyframe.
Considering how often Nakamura does more fantastical action scenes, the fact that he's able to accomplish more grounded stuff like the SotS clips and other work like
>https://www.sakugabooru.com/data/c9e2bc770dc451fb29470b27933b7a38.webm
>https://www.sakugabooru.com/data/9a4d35ca26e8c453a74b055330d0c35d.webm
testifies to his versitality and accomplishment as an animator

>>3785054
>but they're not really impressive in the same way animation like James Baxter or Richard Williams character animation is. Very organic and life like.

That comes from animating on ones. This is something Richard Williams himself noted in his book when he experimented with animating at higher than ones. Do you think anime would not look similar if it were animated on ones? Conversely, do you think Western animators in general are able to produce something comparable to the Japanese were they forced to animate on threes?

I don't ask this to downplay the quality of the better Western animation examples. But there's quality that reflects a higher amount of budget and work put in, and quality derived from skill. These are not the same things.

>>3784691
Why does the right guys take a step mid swing that magically flips back to its original position?

>>3785811
Oh, and as for similar stuff from western artists, we've got Spencer Wan and Sam Deats who've made impressive contributions to Castlevania like
https://www.sakugabooru.com/data/9dd65544f32890cbf7dd3ce3bc1b0052.webm
https://www.sakugabooru.com/data/9dd65544f32890cbf7dd3ce3bc1b0052.webm

>>3785516
I'm pretty sure one of these guys talked at length at how much they admired the Japanese animators.

>>3785190
Thank you for this. Fascinating to see that at an early stage he clearly prioritised perspective and accurate object drawing over characters.

>>3784978
Another weeby retard who thinks animation is drawing.
Hint hint; it’s in the name retard. Good animation is about how things move. You showed me a sequence of some asshole moving his arms about with no variation of speed or sense of weight. It doesn’t look real. Or alive. It doesn’t look animate.
It’s very true that at its best eastern animation puts American crap to shame. But you picking this shitty ass sequence only proves what a retard you are.

>>3785030
Detail and realism are not animation. Animation is about motion.

>>3783534
just because he's made good work in the past, doesn't excuse the shit he does now

He's done great animation with good designs in the past

Now he does good animation with shit designs

Before this thread turns into an anti anime circle jerk

I ask, has any western animator animated vehicles and inorganic subject matter as well as the Japanese?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AY27gLWhtM

I ask this because it seems like these kinds of subject matter are something that people have the most trouble with

go on deviantart and tumblr and look at the most artists, even professional artists terms of service:
"NO VEHICLES PLZ"

>>3785830
Of course they did. But /co/ circlejerkers will never admit that.

>>3785873
>I ask, has any western animator animated vehicles and inorganic subject matter as well as the Japanese?
Not to my knowledge, but "muh motion" fags getting hard over things being animated in 1s will argue with you anyway.

>bouncing circles getting praised by reddi/co/
lmao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A15v4tTab0Y

That horse is very well animated, and it looks like shit. Why is that so hard a concept to understand. Good animation and aesthetic designs aren't mutually exclusive, and some people won't compromise one or the other.

Oh, wow, that 5 definitely has a winning personality, but I didn't come to this orgy to strike up a conversation. Besides, I can watch live action television for better writing. Alright, maybe the animation is good and she knows how to ride a dick like nobody's business. Stop bragging like that makes up for her busted teeth and spare tire. Plenty of fish in this stocked pond what with the internet and all. No need to compromise when you can have it all. Good animation, good characters, good art, good writing.

>>3784718
>very little ease in/out
Oh god yes, you wouldn't think it'd be that hard but Japs seem completely unable to grasp it.

>>3785536
Agreed. Except Sugar isn't an animator

>>3785617
Disney animememors wouldn't be able to do even 20% of what Nakamura do.
They all heavily reference actors and often reuse their own animation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCgxAag2Y6M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU21shbaVBo

Meanwhile Nakamura is animating convincing action sequences with none of these tricks.

>>3785873
>I ask, has any western animator animated vehicles and inorganic subject matter as well as the Japanese?
>he says while posting a scene of humanoids fighting each other

>>3785041
Ur dum

>>3785931
Good animation is good animation
Good design is good design
They are mutually exclusive because tgey're two different things you autistic moron

>>3786091
>implying nips don't reference shit
Naruto stole tons of shit from Jackie Chan, MHA uses figure skaters and bodybuilders for motion reference (the climax to the MHA movie was cringe inducing), I saw one that used a speed skater as well. KYS urself frogposting retard

>>3786190
I would love to see any proof that Nakamura referenced and copied or rotoscoped any of his cuts.
Dumb westaboo

>>3786093
I'm talking about the first few minutes before the mass production evas get deployed when she goes rampaging against the JSDF
Did you see well animated the destruction of things like the VTOL were? How they break apart

>>3786091
>he thinks Japs don't use reference when animating

Holy shit weebs are retarded

>>3786291
Show me?
Oh right, you can't, because outside of a few specific examples there exists no such proof.

>>3786442
>Outside of evidence there is no proof

>>3785062
I like both Easter and Western animation, so I guess I’m just the odd duck out.

I’d like to see the West be able to get as intricate and ornate as Anime likes to do, but sometimes simple is powerful too. I feel like a tool sometimes because when I see big impressive animations that obviously took a lot of skill I’m not too impressed until I stop and think about how much effort went into making it, but something really simple seeming like Steamboat Willie or a Loony Tunes type thing make more of an impact.

I'll take lively character acting over meme, flashy sakuga fights any day, from a critical standpoint. I don't care where it comes from, east or west.

>>3786445
>very few specific examples that shows maybe 1% of the entirety of the industry is evidence that the entire industry traces and rotoscopes like dirty disney animators
lmaoing @ ur life

>>3786497
pleb taste

>>3786520
You do that

>>3786524
Sorry I'm not underage, fag. I grew out of it.

>>3784691
>sh-shaky cam SO REAL and flashy particle effects to hide the otherwise incredibly choppy 6fps animation
>this is supposed to look impressive
Nearly every amateur animation I've ever seen do a fight scene looks like this. Fuck off

>>3786214
The destruction animation is quite good (though I can't judge it properly because the 60fps interpolation gives me a headache). The vehicle animation is literal "I have to go now. My planet needs me" tier.

>>3786847
>I grew out of it.
Not so sure about that. Judging from the way you act and type, it looks to me you haven't grown up at all desu.

>>3787192
>Retard is talking down one of the world's best animators saying anyone can animate like his cuts in Sword of the Stranger
If it's so easy, go on and show me how well you do when you try m8. Go ahead, animate a fight scene as good as that.

>>3786190
>Naruto stole tons of shit from Jackie Chan
Prove it.
>inb4 that Bruce Lee rumor
Has literally never been proven ever. Everyone says Naruto ripped off jackie chan and bruce lee movies, but they never actually provide proof.

Theres a few scenes where they use kung fu fighting styles but can you really say that those were exclusively taken from jackie chan...?
You have zero arguments. None.

>>3785594
When you upload it, maybe we can argue over if it's a western or eastern vomit.

>>3785359
Low self esteem doesn't drive you to anything but suicide you dumb cunt. Self critisism =/= Self hatred. Realize how far you've come and understand how much further you have to go.

>Start a thread hoping to discuss the idea that there will always be artists more talented than you
>Little to no replies, decide to just get back to working on my animation
>Come back several days later, excited to see the thread has over 200 replies
>It's devolved into another Japanese Animation vs Western Animation slap fight thread

I'm not surprised, just disappointed.

>>3789210
Honestly what did you expect. Although desu this is probably one of the worst threads on this board atm.

>>3789212
Agreed. Let's fix that.

>>3789210
based, I started the discussion.

>>3789215
Fuck. Can't delete the post.
I must now bare this shame.

>>3789218
so which side are you on

>>3789218
YOU FOOL WHAT HAVE YOU DONE

>>3789219
I'm on the 'this arguments a waste of time because it's always going to come down to subjective tastes' side.
It's an bigger waste of time if you actually consider just how vastly different the two industries are. It's like asking someone if they prefer pizza or theme parks. Only someone who feels incredibly defensive about liking one of those things is stupid enough to have that discussion.

>it's another episode of people who can't animate a ball bouncing trying to shit on ProA by showing how much ProB is better

Die, niggerdicklings.

>>3789257
post 30 seconds of you animating a ball

firs time i heard of them

>>3789259
Why? I'm not the one spewing garbage, I'm here for sharing good animation.

>>3789263
I knew it, get back in the bucket, crab.

>>3785049
"maybe comes close"
this one animation is better than every anime posted in this thread

Could we all just post some good animation? East and West alike?

>>3790308
Good.
>>3790309
Literal trash.

Eastern animation is good and western animation is bad prove me wrong :)

>>3790317
your mom sucks dick for money

>whole thread literally boils down to "nope looks like shit and is not animation"

>>3790321
>>3790325
>>3790332
>>3790334
>>3790335
>>3790339
>>3790341
>>3790342
We already went through this multiple times. Fuck off and stop bumping the thread.

>>3790325
Source?

>>3790345
kill yourself
>>3790347
angel buster

>>3790351
>>3790342
>>3790341
>>3790339
>>3790335
>>3790334
>>3790332
>>3790325
>>3790321
>>3790309
>>3790308
stop bumping the thread you fucking retard.

>>3790355
stop me faggot

>>3783838
Most of this board (and this site in general) could definitely benefit from a message like that.

>>3790351
Nothing comes up for angel buster just maple story shit.

>>3790367
Not sure what they're talking about, but it's Tetsuwan Birdy (the original one).

>>3784835
Imagine being impressed by sword of the stranger where the colors are all muddy, there's barely any camera work and everything that isn't a sword fight is drawn like shit when the west has Laika, Sony pictures, Xilam and Cartoon Saloon