/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3761383
I guess none. Political art is fucking weak.

>>3761383
none unless it averts your world view

>>3761383
i draw screaming trump wearing a diaper and get thousands of likes

non because I don't want to get fucking lynched

How political is drawing cute boys doing cute things?

>>3761383
I once drew a baby with the words "born to die" above him for class. It wasn't political but during the critique my professor said "way to stick it to the man!" And then the whole class went on about my "message to Congress."

>>3761446
You're like Forrest Gump but for liberals

Whenever I don't know what clothes to draw, I just draw them in monarchist France military uniform

>>3761454
>ancién regime
Mah nigga

>>3761448
That made me laugh. I'm one of the few non liberals in my college. Everyone is constantly throwing themselves a pity party. I'm just trying to get gud

None, or at least not intentionally. Politics has inundated every fucking other hobby or thing that I enjoy doing. My drawing is something I can control that has fuck-all to do with politics.

The anti-right and anti-left shit flinging is cringy and tired as fuck.

Nothing because if you voice support for trump people lose their fucking mind and try to get you banned off a platform.

>>3761383
What gender symbol is that supposed to be?

And none , I frown oppon anyone who adds political tones to their work, even if their being sarcastic.

>>3761480
you're in a cult lol. You're voicing support for a kid-diddling retard that will be rightly remembered as an exceptionally bad person. You're going to eventually hate him and feel embarrassed about ever having voiced support for such a belligerent dipshit. Do yourself a flavor and let it go. It's only going to get worse, and then you're going to have a turning point, and then you're going to feel like a fucking retard for allowing yourself to get cucked for as long as you did.

>>3761492
From the artist:
>The Emprexx represents the responsibility that comes with authority, and the double-edged sword of visibility. The Emprexx is a highly respected individual, but is also under intense scrutiny, and may at times struggle to cope with that pressure.

>The Emprexx is also a reminder of privilege, and using that privilege to bolster the voices of others who have trouble being heard.

>While The Emprexx's traits have been traditionally separated into the gendered binary of Emperor and Empress, this card is a reminder that responsibility, authority, nobility, and kindness have no gender, and compassion is something that everyone should strive for.

>The Trans Tarot updates on my Patreon every Monday, with progress shots and early releases available to all $5 & up Patrons!

>>3761446
>>3761448
really? sounds like an anti abortion piece to me

>>3761383
Knightly stuff, angels, purging evil, holy empires and if I knew how to draw architecture I'd do tons of gray imposing cities. I liked a lot the nazi Super City project or something, it was pure concrete as far as the eye could see but it was so neat and organized.

My taste sounds like generic fantasy, but I believe politics play into it. Your average hippie doesn't go on a power trip thinking about crusades like I do and fantasyzing about cities where only the worthy may enter. Worthyness in general seems like a right wing idea. I love me that juice while the left advocates for being free and letting people live like that want to.

>>3761495
just because you got wololo'd don't start projecting an entire political party into thinking they're all fooling themselves. thats the kind of thinking that truly divides a country.

>>3761536
Nationalism in general is pretty popular and people might not realize they're being politic. All that jazz about fighting for your home and pride like a hero is pretty common, but it's as right wing as it gets.

>>3761548
Not necessarily, Nationalism (as in pride in one's nation) in and of itself can be left or right especially outside of the US. Most people are prideful of their nation, even in traditionally left leaning countries like Sweden.

>>3761548
Further, you could argue that especially in Communism (about as left as it gets), the ideologies goal is to replace religion with nationalism, but the exact same could be said of Ethnic Facism (about as right as it gets).

Basically any extreme political view will try to co-opt nationalism to it's advantage, but nationalism in and of itself doesn't have to lie on a political spectrum.

anime girls are apolitical.

>>3761571
See
>>3761439

>>3761383
>>3761418
Pretty much this. If I were honest in my political views, my life would be ruined, almost lost a 20 year long friendship over different political views, I learned to lay low because I don't want to lose people close to me even if it means I have to lie to their faces. Also politics has been pretty much forced upon everything, like c'mon can't I just enjoy a dumb action movie without having politics, ideology and moral fagging pushed down my throat. So art is the one place I can get away from all this bullshit.
Though the characters I create are always morally grey and many would consider the villain/antagonist of the story and in the world they live in, there is no obvious good and evil in the traditional sense, only people fighting for what they believe is right, but eh that as far as political I will get with my art.

>>3761383
none. politics makes art into trash. politics only drags art down and cheapens it, and all art with a political bent is fucking gay. if you were to say that goyas paintings were political, yes to an extent they were but more historical than anything. art that is designed to simply convey a message about retard ass politics is doomed to be ruined by time.

>>3761495
this is every criticism of trump ever: ad hominim like you know him, or like it even matters what "kind of person" the president is at all. its not WHO they are its what they DO you fucking retard.

>>3761539
>wololo
>wololo
>wololo

>>3761495
>feel embarrassed
>feel like a
>feel
I guess you told us where your arguments come from

>>3761383
None, mixing politics with art is a mistake.

>>3761624
What anon said was so true it kinda hurt lol - except for me it only took like a week after his election to realize I was a fucking retard that got lost in the meme instead of years. Seriously bro, pull your head out your ass, there is no actual legitimate reason to admire trump as a person OR a president, unless your gold standard is a fat molestor born into a class so ridiculously high above yours that he would probably bully you had you gone to the same school.

>>3761624
> this is every criticism of trump ever
and it'll always be correct. He'll never not be a belligerent fuck up that lies for attention and panders to people that need to believe.
>ad hominim like you know him
Well we're talking about who he is, what he does, and what he's capable of. That's not really an ad-hominem when it's the subject of conversation.

And why does it matter if you "know him?" You can know what he's done for the last 50 years. He has an endless history of making insane, self-destructive decisions and then dumping the consequences on his share-holders. You're his share-holder now. You're going to be dealing with this for the rest of your life.
> or like it even matters what "kind of person" the president is at all.
Generally "the kind of person" you want as President is the "kind of person" that can comfortably read. You generally don't want emotional attention-seeking narcissists with uncontrollable sexual impulses and a long history with Russian counter-intelligence as the President of the United States. When you're the "kind of person" that "can't help it" when it comes to sexual gratification, and you've been working with the KGB and then GRU to distribute Russian propaganda in the US since 1987, that's not generally what is best for leading a nation that can literally destroy the entire world.
> its not WHO they are its what they DO you fucking retard.
And what he's done is shut the government down over a fabricated crisis. What he's done is dangerously deregulate the economy while cutting trillions for corporations to then dump into the newly-deregulated markets, shortening the timeline for the next financial crisis by decades. What he's done is ensure that no action is taken by the United States to limit or prevent global warming from causing trillions of dollars of damage to the US economy. What he's done is ensure that the US fails in this century.

He'll be remembered, and cursed, for what he's done.

>>3761651
But also to OP's question,

None. Injecting politics into your art instantly renders you subhuman

>>3761632
yeah empathy for what you're going to be feeling for the rest of your life. My argument is that it's best for your long-term mental health to walk away from the cult. You're only doing yourself harm by forcing yourself to endlessly deal with all the cognitive-dissonance and self-destruction you have to do to justify why you're a shill for an embarrassing, traitorous fucking moron.

You're not fooling anyone when you shill for a retarded reality-tv faggot that primarily panders to disaffected virgins and old people because they're the most easily manipulated. When you reveal yourself to be some Trumpfag SJW, you're just telling the world that you're sexually frustrated and you lack self-awareness. You're entirely feels-driven when you find yourself cucking for a bunch of corporatist exploitation because they validate your fears of brown people. Quit lying to yourself you degenerate cuck. You're in a cult.

>>3761495
>do yourself a flavor
>flavor

Pls kys with a giant black dildo

>>3761626
It warms my heart that people still remember age of empires

>>3761525
It was supposed to be about a cause we care about. I don't really care about a lot of causes. So I was trying to make it about how the age to drink and the age to serve in the military should be the same.

>>3761383
I'm not a contrarian teenager, so none.

If it's "politics" to draw fat or brown people then you seem volatile. If you're drawing things to validate yourself then you need a better backbone. Drawing a trans, pimple-faced disabled person isn't going to ease social disapproval.

>>3761475
>pic
if the world can be ruined by the death of a person, it was already in ruin

>>3761706
grammer nazi

>>3762123
actually I think you'll find he's a spelling nazi

>>3761492
That's just the generic trans symbol. It has non-cringe uses but unfortunately the cringe is louder.

>>3762123
>grammer
is that how dem dopeslingers call an ounce on the streetz?

>>3762342
blame english for it's stupid sound-to-symbol

Man I wish I was good enough at art to shoah a few kikes with my sick sketches of gas chambers.

I think that politics is comedy. And comedy plays a bit of a roll in muh arte.

>>3763037
Yeah, the idea that you unironically believe that the Russians were conspiring to give an inconsequential businessman an incredibly narrow victory over the most corrupt hag in politics since the mid 1980s using facebook groups with less than a dozen followers is pretty comedic to be honest famalamadingdong

>>3763046
The comedy is that you got this triggered over a .jpg.

>>3763046
>Yeah, the idea that you unironically believe that the Russians were conspiring to give an inconsequential businessman an incredibly narrow victory
Well to the Russian Oligarchy he's been incredibly consequential for the last 20 years. And to Russian counter-intelligence he went from being moderately-consequential in 1987, to being fundamentally-turning-point-in-the-21st-century consequential.

You may not be able to understand this, but in 2014 when Russia invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea after the Ukrainian people overthrew the puppet that Putin and Manafort installed, this led to Russia getting CRIPPLED by economic sanctions (stacked on top of the Saudis shorting the cost of oil and tanking Russia's economy). In response to this Putin started conducting the currently-ongoing active measures war against the west. They saw Clinton and Democrats as being likely to continue stacking sanctions and letting the Saudis fuck the oil economy, and dedicated billions of dollars to subversive messaging strategy designed to radicalize and agitate people against their countrymen. Get everyone acting out of spite.

And then when it comes to Trump, he's been an Agent of Influence for over 30 years. He's been kept afloat since he lost all his dad's money in the 90s primarily by laundering Russian money with his properties. He's their slut.

And the "incredibly narrow victory" was accomplished by psychographically microtargeting people in specific places with propaganda or depression memes or other terroristic messaging strategy designed to "hack" the fundamental corruption of the Electoral College system. He won with an "incredibly narrow victory" of -3,00,000 votes.
>the most corrupt hag in politics since the mid 1980s
Clinton wasn't printing Russian propaganda in American newspapers in 1987 after going to Moscow for a week and getting seduced by the KGB. That was the current hag in the White House.

>>3763060
Just wait for it

>>3763066
WHOOP there it is

>>3761539
>just because you got wololo'd

>>3761383
There's no politic in my art, as other anons pointed out it's hard enough to escape it everywhere else...
I did think about representation in my art someday after reading some heated argument on Twitter, but since I draw a large amount of chinks, blacks and pajeets in addition to my whiteys, it kinda flew over my head.

>>3761539
>thats the kind of thinking that truly divides a country.
THOUGHT POLICE
THOUGHT POLICE
REEREEREEREE
PLS DONT BE MEAN ABOUT
MEMEMEME

The people you trust want you to kill your self. The things you care about are distractions designed to agitate you and keep you tribal.

>>3763106
jimmy, please stay out of it. when you butt in its like the retard going 'twaaain twaaaaain' running onto the train. the person i originally replied to probably isnt thankful at all at your input. neither am i, you think im happy at getting a (You) from you? No, it means Im contributing to this boards degradation. please.... please get a handler to limit your internet time.

>>3763066
>psychographically microtargeting people

You mean when Trump went to way more states to hold rallies than Clinton did? It's called campaigning, and if she wasn't an anemic grandma weighed down from all the people she had killed over the years maybe she'd have been able to drum up more support in those "psychographically microtargeted" areas.

>Saudis fuck the oil economy

I just saw gas at $1.90 at a local station down from close to $3 at the start of 2016, so you're telling me the hard nosed negotiator Shillary Clintonstein would have it even lower?

>-3,000,000 votes

There are almost 330 million people living here, and the electoral college system exists precisely so that faggots in what is probably the most populous and inequitable black hole of a state in the country, Commiefornia can't single-handedly bring our entire nation down to their retarded level.

>subversive messaging strategy designed to radicalize and agitate people against their countrymen

Yeah, the Russians used their vast domestic media empire to convince half of this country that their duly elected president is a fascist nazi under their direct control. Those bastards! Luckily you and Rachel Maddow know the truth.

like I worked in Republican politics for a few years. Was doing online and social media subversive messaging strategy coordination and a bunch of other shit for the Republican party of muh state from 2009 to ~2012. I've always been involved in politiks from an inside baseball sense of pov. I saw how the Republican party reacted to the Citizen's United ruling, from the inside, as suddenly there were BILLIONS of dollars coming from EVERYWHERE. I was getting paid by companies getting paid by companies getting paid by the Kochs to build stages for "grassroots" Tea Party demonstrations and fundraisers and shit. The Republican Party became FUNDAMENTALLY corrupted after 2010. They were pretty fucked up after having to justify Bush and torture and Iraq and shit, so when suddenly they could make dozens of millions of dollars in the next few decades if they just continue lying for the people paying them, they just abandoned every principle they had left.

So like when >>3761539 says "don't start projecting an entire political party into thinking they're all fooling themselves." They literally fucking are. They're propping up science denialism to justify why they're propping up policies that only benefit oil companies. They're fighting for insurance companies. They're fighting for the prison industries. They're fighting for the war industries. They're shills for arms dealers and opioid manufacturers and bankers. They've absolutely fooled themselves into protecting all these things that give them money that are also destroying the country.

That's reality. If this upsets you, maybe you should reflect critically on the policies you support. If you want to use the reality that people are going to be talking shit about the retarded nonsense you support, to justify why you support the retarded nonsense. That's your retardation. If you want to be divided by how much you want to be a cuck for Exxon and Sentara and daggone Russia, you do you I guess.

>>3763127
>oil companies

We didn't get the oil tho

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1948787,00.html

>opioids

Obama didn't do shit about it over the course of 8 years and Trump is only starting to do shit about it since declaring it a national emergency a year or so ago (guess where heroin and just about every other illegal drug comes from btw)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/06/12/sophisticated-smuggling-rings-supply-heroin-surge/9713909/

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/03/06/americas-opioid-epidemic-is-worsening

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/24/politics/donald-trump-opioid-crisis-one-year-later-event/index.html

>bankers

Obama literally gave bankers a trillion dollars pro bono lol

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8214818&page=1

>war industries

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-syria-withdrawal-ordered-donald-trump-underway-turkey-threatens-ypg-kurds/

>>3763123
>You mean when Trump went to way more states to hold rallies than Clinton did?
No I mean psychographically microtargeting people based on their demonstrated behavior on the internet, in ways to influence their future behavior. They were bombarding blacks and women and libruls and centrists with depression normalizing memes and news stories or propaganda or image macros that would suppress or subvert their desire or ability to vote. They were also targeting people that demonstrated psychographic profiles that suggested they were disaffected, easily agitated, prone to tribalism, lonely, etc. And they roused the rabble to act as online agents of influence and really GOTV for rootless white males and virgins and stuff. We're talking about like a 30 month campaign to radicalize and organize one side while depressing and suppressing the other, using all measures possible.
> It's called campaigning
Oh no I'm talking about the active measures warfare that was conducted by a foreign antagonist.
>and if she wasn't an anemic grandma weighed down from all the people she had killed over the years
It's funny because you're parroting the exact messaging strategy that all the Russian shill accounts were normalizing and encouraging. You unambiguously have been influenced significantly by a foreign counterintelligence agency that wants you to kill yourself and others.
>There are almost 330 million people living here
Yeah and we suppress a bunch of their votes. And we use an antiquated system from when communication was horse-based, that literally disenfranchises people in population centers.
> and the electoral college system exists precisely so that faggots in what is probably the most populous and inequitable black hole of a state in the country, Commiefornia can't single-handedly bring our entire nation down to their retarded level.
Nobody is more powerful than the Wyoming voter lol. They have more Moose than people, let them regulate the banks.

>>3763127
>oil companies

We didn't get the oil tho

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1948787,00.html

>opioids

Obama didn't do shit about it over the course of 8 years and Trump is only starting to do shit about it since declaring it a national emergency a year or so ago (guess where heroin and just about every other illegal drug comes from btw)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/06/12/sophisticated-smuggling-rings-supply-heroin-surge/9713909/

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/03/06/americas-opioid-epidemic-is-worsening

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/24/politics/donald-trump-opioid-crisis-one-year-later-event/index.html

>war industries

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-syria-withdrawal-ordered-donald-trump-underway-turkey-threatens-ypg-kurds/

>>3763159
>suppress their votes

If someone wants to spend $20 a day on malt liquor and chooses not to buy a $5 voter ID that's their own decision. Universal suffrage is bad anyway, people like you who are functional schizophrenic retards shouldn't have the same right to vote as a normal person lmao

>>3763152
jesus m8 try harder. or less hard. idk. be less autistic.
>We didn't get the oil tho
We always get the oil. The Republican Party aren't shills for oil companies because the Iraq war. They're shills for oil companies because essentially every policy platform they have is designed to benefit oil companies. They reject climate change for oil companies. They fight solar and wind and nuclear for oil companies. They gave Exxon Secy of State.
>Obama didn't do shit
The opioid crisis is an outcome of the health insurance crisis. It's cheaper and easier to give someone a bunch of opioids than physical therapy and all these other things when they have no/shitty insurance.

Also whataboutism. Obama spent his entire Presidency being hysterically called a Socialist because he did ANYTHING to address the reality that there's 600,000 healthcare bankruptsies a year and the average American has to spend $300,000 on healthcare in their life. Republicans literally spent billions on messaging strategy designed to agitate and radicalize their followers against government, in general, to protect health insurance companies and pharma companies.
>Obama literally gave bankers a trillion dollars pro bono lol
So did Bush in 2008. They did that to stop a great depression. Why did Trump just give $2 trillion in tax cuts to corporations again? There was no problems financially. There had been stable growth since the crash. Then suddenly corporations get trillions of dollars pro bono to dump into re-deregulated markets. What was that for?

You should try reading your sources. Or being older than 14?

>>3763165
>If someone wants to spend $20 a day on malt liquor and chooses not to buy a $5 voter ID that's their own decision.
doesn't cost $5. Not an argument either. Actively creating barriers that keep poor people from voting is illegal, unethical, immoral, however you want to cut it, it's something nigger fascists do in 3rd world countries do.

Like why do you like having to justify why you support actively corrupt corporate shills that have to resort to suppressing poor people to maintain their insanely short-sighted corporatist policies that happen to make life worse for most people? Why not just NOT support shitty policies? Why wouldn't you want your "side" to be able to win on the merits of it's policies instead of their ability to limit people's constitutional rights?

Like why the fuck are you so wet about giving unprecedented corporate tax breaks and keeping foreign money in your election process? Why do you want to fill the desert with tanks when you risk going bankrupt if you get sick? What about any of the shit that has actually been executed by this administration really helps you?
>people like you who are functional schizophrenic retards shouldn't have the same right to vote as a normal person lmao
It's funny because you demonstrate a schizotypal way of thinking. You kind of meekly parrot the talking points you heard before and then resort to reflexive ad hominem because you don't actually have an argument for why you shill for the shit you do, other than that it's what you've been trained to do. Other than your reflexive tribalistic devotion to your side/opposition to The Other, what do you even care about any of the shit you support?

>>3763127
jimmy i was really involved in berkeley, if you worked for the left youd come away just as disillusioned you massive retard.

its politics. just walk away.

>>3763191
>>3763174
Christ. Guess he woke up.

>>3763201
>jimmy i was really involved in berkeley, if you worked for the left youd come away just as disillusioned you massive retard.
I did work for the "left." Played both sides. Worked on Obama 2008 at college. Partied with the Republicans I got to know a bunch after the election, got muh foot in the door with the Republican Party of muh state, then worked on a 2010 congressional campaign, spent a lot of that summer working to organize all of the black Republican congressional candidates to get money, before Michael Steele told muh candidate on the Fire Pelosi bus that they were directing so much money into suppression and it was so effective that there was no interest in dumping money on trying to promote black republicans. So I then spent most of 2011 just getting fucking paid to sit around in an office and slinging emails for the RNC and all their PACs and think tanks shit. Then I went back to the Obama campaign in 2012 but they didn't really trust me after they realized I had been an RNC/RPV guy.

Like I don't really think of the Democrats as "the left." Most everything Obama did was a conservative policy before he did it and "conservatives" called it socialism. Hillary Clinton was a boring, corporate centrist.

But that doesn't mean that "it's all the same." In my experience, almost everyone that volunteers and works for the democrats does so because they have the best intent for what they think will make the country and the future better. When I worked with Republicans, it was a much more cynical, toxic mindset. So many of the people I worked with were literally only into politics for the money and opportunities. Every fucking thing Republicans do is a goddamn racket. Let's make some yard signs: create an LCC, transfer $15,000 from the PAC account to LCC, hire a signmaker to make signs for $900. There isn't anything that I did in Republican politics that wasn't a scheme. The election-industrial complex is real as fuck.

>>3761458
*Ancien régime
**Mon négro

all art is political, everything is political, theres is no such thing as apoliticality

>>3763368
Never in the history of the world has a more incorrect statement ever been said

>>3763375
every piece of art created has some cultural meaning/significance, culture is political
anything that is 'apolitical' is just support for the political status quo

>>3763377
So if a someone who was never a part of society made a piece of art, would that be political, what status quo would they be supporting? What if a child who has no ability to conceive of politics makes some art, is that somehow political too ?

>>3763394
art that comes from someone who doesnt exist in society doesnt exist, it wouldnt be political but it would also be entirely unique from any piece of art made before it
i'd argue the extent to which a child's 'art' is art in the traditional sense, but since the child is being exposed to their parents politics and their school's politics it is unconsciously a reflection of their political climate
remembering that politics is not just left vs right shitflinging

>>3761383
As a militant Tibetan liberationist, every thing I commit to paper, whether it is blue hedgehogs or figures from Greek myth, are all constructed in support of "the cause"!

>>3763368
Art is not subservient to politics, it's the other way around. The best politicians are only second-hand songsmiths.

>>3763174
>we always get the oil

With Iraq we didn't. We are enjoying an oil surplus and subsequently low gas prices right now because of our shameless relationship with the criminal regime of Saudi Arabia who are the single most powerful member of OPEC, and an increase in our domestic drilling, clearly neither of which you support.

>tax cuts

Tax cuts are good, Jimmy. "Not taking" something isn't the same as giving it, you dumb dumb. In a completely globalized economy with wildly fluctuating currency exchange rates between countries only a few hundred miles apart, making your country as attractive as possible to the biggest employers is a desirable thing. It's the same reason China has lowered their own tax rates-which were until recently already lower than ours-to compete, and it's why Mexico has been able to not only poach our manufacturing base for decades but why Mexicans can come here and work for "less money" while dogpiling 50 people into a 2 bedroom rental house.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/13/us/undocumented-immigrants-stash-house-texas-trnd/index.html

Taxes don't go into your pocket, they go to organizations like the FDA so they can help maintain the various monopolies and arbitrary Intellectual Property law enforcement that have led to the healthcare crisis to begin with. They go to federal loan guarantees and grants for students which helped push general college tuition rates thousands of percentage points higher than that of inflation for what are often objectively worthless degrees.

You think that healthcare and tuition rates-which are the most profound problems facing americans today-would all go away if only the government would just give these organizations providing these services even more money vicariously through subsidy, effectively rewarding them for their unethical behavior and ensuring that they will never have to face consequences or change their prices or policies. You're wrong lol

>>3761651
OH MY GOD YOU DIDNT LISTEN AT ALL MOTHER FUCKER

its not about WHO THEY ARE. you dont know WHO your leaders are, you dont know who that limey faggot fuck obama was just as much as you dont know whether hillary or whoever the fuck else is a good person, racist, sexist, whatever. Its impossible to tell objectively, Furthermore even if it wasn't, IT WOULDNT MATTER. because it's not about who they are, they could be a fucking nazi for all it makes a difference, its what they do that determines their quality or lack of. i dont care for trump, never said i did, but it does not matter one fuck in a rabbit hutch whether he hates mexicans, women, or weird al yankovic. fucking Fuck off you fucking faggot fuck.
>>3761657
yeah i totally agree

>>3761652
i dont particularly care whether he'll be remembered as this and that, i dont live in america and dont give much of a shit about them. I dont care for donald trump, but what i am angry about is the stupidity of these arguments used. For however many retarded emotional personal descriptions you use of the president, its just pissing in the wind. You have the right arguments, i believe, so use THEM. dont bother calling him racist or a pedophile or a sexist, shit that you cant ever prove, or call him narcissistic or whatever other nebulous emotive term you want to put on him as a person, ad hominim. And seriously, do you think there's ever been a president who didnt have a hint of narcissism? Regardless, it doesnt matter. The kind of person he is wont make a difference if he does the right thing or the wrong thing, same as any other politician. Hillary i believe is a power hungry amoral pig fucker, but i would have put her in power over donald trump any day, even though she's married to a rapist. because that doesnt change shit about the country. The most important thing, though, is that you wont convince a single person with these type of arguments, whether they're true or not. because it's something you could make up and it would have the same argumentative value, unlike statistics and policy, anyone who doesnt want to believe it simply wont. That's the case of all ad hominim argument. So, you won't convince anyone, and i feel as though a lot of people who have these types of arguments KNOW they wont, but feel as though they have the moral high ground and get to be seen taking it whenever they get to argue about how bad and mean their president is. Nobody is convinced, its just a show of posturing morality, and its fucking lame. The classic line by that know-nothing bimbo michelle obama is "they go low, we go high", which is absolute bullshit. Its more like "we constantly assert that we're morally superior to anyone who disagrees with us"

Political art in contemporary times is almost always trash, artists forget how to be subtle and make meaningful political commentary through their art and it's turned into a more I HATE THIS GUY OR THAT GUY.

Just look at most anti bush/obama/trump art it's fucking garbage.

The best political and societal commentators are all dead, these included Max Beckmann, Otto Dix, George Grosz, Kirchner, Picasso, Delacroix, etc etc.

Pic related one of the greatest political pieces documenting the rise of the nazi party in germany by a german artist who was outcast from his country.

>>3761383
Not a lot since I haven't drawn a lot yet in terms of OC, I have done stuff with other people's characters in collaboration with them or some fanart though.

For my own projects, I make it deep int he background more as part of the logic of the world I've created rather than make the characters echoes of my opinions.

>>3763470
>With Iraq we didn't.
The porpoise of Iraq wasn't ever necessarily about oil. I mean it kind of was but it wasn't about literally getting direct access to their oil. It was about establishing a US stronghold next to Iran that also relieves US dependency on the Saudis. Plus a bunch of other reasons. The motivations behind why we fabricated a war to invade Iraq depend on who you're looking at. It was as much about just created cause for endless war than it was about getting marginally cheaper access to oil.
>Tax cuts are good, Jimmy.
No they can be good. They can also be cancer. We are like 20+ years into the cancer phase.
> "Not taking" something isn't the same as giving it
No it's the exact same. The went from "not having" 2 trillion dollars annually to "having it." For no reason. If you want to compare TARP and the Obama bailouts with the psychotic Trump tax cuts, you're building your own hanging platform.
>In a completely globalized economy with wildly fluctuating currency exchange rates between countries only a few hundred miles apart, making your country as attractive as possible to the biggest employers is a desirable thing.
Then we shouldn't be taxing our own companies with Tariffs for using Chinese or Canadian products.
>It's the same reason China has lowered their own tax rates-which were until recently already lower than ours-to compete
No they weren't. They went from like 35% to 21% in 2017. The US went from 0-30% to 0-10%. And it's important to note that when we say something like "0-10%" what we're really saying is that they're getting back a bunch of money. There are so many corporate loopholes that the effective tax rate for the biggest corporations is less than 0%.

idk you're too autistic to engage with rationally probably. Every sentence is a different nonsense trap distraction that isn't really an argument, it's just a diversion.

>>3763550
>i dont particularly care whether he'll be remembered as this and that
yeah you should. that's the whole point of encouraging radicalization and tribalism and stuff. It makes it so that the people that support it don't think about themselves, practically, in the long term. You're always just endlessly engaged in the short term distractions so much that you don't have time to think critically about where you're going to be and what you're going to be justifying in 2,5,10,20 years from now. It's just always about RIGHT NOW
>i dont live in america and dont give much of a shit about them.
Yeah you just like to larp at them because you're from a pathetic country for boring faggots
>I dont care for donald trump, but what i am angry about is the stupidity of these arguments used
Cry more you sniveling bitch. You should hang yourself in the closet about it way before you get uppity enough to share your dipshit foreign opinions. Get fucked you degenerate gook. Mind your own business ya dang globalist cuck.
>dont bother calling him racist or a pedophile or a sexist
I don't bother calling him a sexist or racist. But his sexual impulse towards pubescent girls is part of his relationship with the Russian oligarchy, so it can't really be ignored. I don't care that he's a racist or whatever. I just think it's hilarious that he's literally a fucking degenerate traitor.
>And seriously, do you think there's ever been a president who didnt have a hint of narcissism?
Not about having a "hint of narcissism" or a "hint of histrionics." It's that Trump literally has Narcissistic and Histrionic Personality Disorders. He is disordered by his need for attention and narcissistic supply. His ability to function is hindered by his mental illness.
>The kind of person he is wont make a difference if he does the right thing or the wrong thing, same as any other politician.
Yeah I already said that. He'll be cursed for what he's done. He'll be mocked for who he was.

>>3761383
I made at least two gay characters

as long as we keep the rich in power, no matter left or right, all of us will continue to be ground underfoot. look for the snivelling cucks who lick the sweat off the balls of the rich and beg for them to keep their money, they are the enemy within our ranks

>>3761383
None.

I'm not particularly politically minded, since I don't live somewhere with a particularly exciting political climate. The most I invest in politics is reading the different party policies then choosing whose I like the best the day before the election. Otherwise, I ignore it, to the point where someone polled me shortly before our last election and I could name neither the prime minister nor the leader or the opposition.

I mostly do landscapes and pet portraits anyway.

>>3763590
>No they weren't

Yes they were

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/business/tax-bill-china.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-09/china-announces-29-billion-annual-tax-cut-for-small-companies

Our tax revenue to GDP ratio is over 25% higher than China's (26% vs 20%).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio

>Then we shouldn't be taxing our own companies with Tariffs for using Chinese or Canadian products.

Trump's tariffs are intended to be temporary and retaliatory, made in the interest of getting the tariffs and non-tariff trade barriers of other countries lowered; it's like you've never read about any of these subjects to put them in their proper context.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_the_United_States

Many countries dump goods into the US while purchasing little in kind because their tariffs make it difficult for goods from the US to be viable in that market-our country does that as well for certain things. Strategic tariffs combined with weak currencies in places like China and Mexico led to the egress of our manufacturing base and became one of the major reasons the US has been quickly reduced to a do-you-want-fries-with-that economy, while China has become an economic powerhouse with an exponentially increasing standard of living during the exact same time period.

>There are so many corporate loopholes that the effective tax rate for the biggest corporations is less than 0%.

I doubt that blanket statement is correct, though I wouldn't be surprised if it applies to some specific companies. A lot of times you see people butthurt about a company that has a gross profit of over 100 billion receiving a subsidy of a few billion dollars paid out over a few years. The idea of taxation being inherently good when we're talking about an organization with as poor of a track record as the federal government is certainly a novel concept in either case.

my politics don't play a huge part, but my philosophies do.

there is somewhat of a political component though. As Ai Weiwei has stated "all art is political."


My refusal to make work that is overtly political, in it of itself is a political statement.

My art starts to get more political when the piece has a narrative, like writing or video.

But mostly it's philosophy.

>>3761383
If you make one of your characters gay or a crossdresser, does that count as being political?
The other characters in my story have varying reactions to LGBT people, some are neutral while others don't like the idea of it. But their views are never presented as objectively right or wrong (it's just how they view the world).

>>3763650
if you want to present homosexuality as neutral (ie not injecting your own views into the text at all), you have to acknowledge that some characters will be pro, some will be against, and some will be neutral. by only acknowledging negative and neutral opinions you are unconsciously biasing the universe towards being anti-homo, even though you arent framing the arguments as either right or wrong.
or you could have all characters be neutral, or exclude homosexuality from the text

>>3763640
>Our tax revenue to GDP ratio is over 25% higher than China's (26% vs 20%).
They also pay hundreds of millions of their employees a few dollars a day. They are an emerging market being managed by a totalitarian communist single-party government. Do you think the US should be competing with that? Should our workers be getting paid $.30 an hour?
>Trump's tariffs are intended to be temporary and retaliatory,
Except they're still just a tax on American companies. Not that creating needless trade wars with allies over misunderstandings of basic economic theory for "retaliatory" reasons or otherwise, is ever really sound economic theory.
>it's like you've never read about any of these subjects to put them in their proper context.
have you?! Tariffs pretty much always are just spiteful self-punishment.
>Many countries dump goods into the US while purchasing little in kind
We're a mature, consumer economy. This is good for us. It brings our cost of living down while elevates our standard of living. We don't need China and India buying our shit. Are you fucking retarded?
> Strategic tariffs
Like shooting yourself in the foot to avoid racing someone! Strategic!
>while China has become an economic powerhouse
They are what America was 100 years ago. They'll ascend to where we are as a result of our own self-destructive policies.
>I doubt that blanket statement is correct
Exxon a good boy. Exxon dindu nuffin.
>The idea of taxation being inherently good when we're talking about an organization with as poor of a track record as the federal government is certainly a novel concept in either case.
TAXATION IS VIOLENCE! WE MUST PROTECT WALMART! WE MUST PROTECT MCDONALDS! WE MUST GIVE THEM MORE!

>>3763037
>>3763066
>>3763106
>>3763127
>>3763159
>>3763174
>>3763191
>>3763231
>>3763590
>>3763596
>>3763668

Your art is objectively bad. It's flat, dead, and sloppily constructed.

>>3763668
>$.30 an hour

Thanks to China adopting a more conventional market-based system in the 80s wages have increased after the country having stagnated for the 60 shit-tier Maoist years prior.

>They are what America was 100 years ago

They have the gdp of where America was 14 years ago, and just four years before that they had the gdp of where America was 56 years ago.

>spiteful self-punishment.

High tariffs were also the norm for much of U.S. history up until the mid-1940s, well after the United States was an established economic powerhouse. They're not good but they're not bad-consider how the U.S. didn't even have income taxes until 1913, the federal budget was almost entirely covered by tariffs.

It's amazing how many progressives suddenly became principled libertarians once the subject of tariffs came up. Temporary tariffs, they say, will increase the cost of everything we buy, but doubling the minimum wage supposedly wouldn't

>We don't need China and India buying our shit

Any countries buying our companies' goods and produce or relying on their services is a good thing.

>Like shooting yourself in the foot to avoid racing someone

Tariffs serve multiple functions-when used properly

You are incentivizing companies both domestic and foreign to build local facilities and hire local workers in order to have access to your country's pool of consumers

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/06/25/harley-davidson-eu-tariffs-trump/729958002/

You are preventing foreign companies without a physical presence in your country from out-competing similar domestic ones which, depending on discrepancies in relative currency values, wages and regulations etc. could easily be done in a more laissez-faire market environment.

You can also use specific tariffs on a country whose trade imbalance with you is so stark that they can only offer token resistance to them as a bargaining chip for more favorable trade conditions.

>CAPS LOCK

Not an argument.

>>3763668
>$.30 an hour

Thanks to China adopting a more conventional market-based system in the 80s wages have increased after the country had stagnated economically for the 60 shit-tier Maoist years prior.

>They are what America was 100 years ago

They have the gdp of where America was 14 years ago, and just four years before that they had the gdp of where America was 56 years ago.

>spiteful self-punishment.

High tariffs were also the norm for much of U.S. history up until the mid-1940s, well after the United States was an established economic powerhouse. They're not good but they're not all bad-consider how the U.S. didn't even have income taxes until 1913, the federal budget was almost entirely covered by tariffs.

It's amazing how many progressives suddenly became principled libertarians once the subject of tariffs came up. Temporary tariffs, they say, will increase the cost of everything we buy, but doubling the minimum wage supposedly wouldn't

>We don't need China and India buying our shit

Any countries buying our companies' goods and produce or relying on their services is a good thing.

>Like shooting yourself in the foot to avoid racing someone

Tariffs serve multiple functions-when used properly

You are incentivizing companies both domestic and foreign to build local facilities and hire local workers in order to have access to your country's pool of consumers

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/06/25/harley-davidson-eu-tariffs-trump/729958002/

You are preventing foreign companies without a physical presence in your country from out-competing similar domestic ones which, depending on discrepancies in relative currency values, wages and regulations etc. could easily be done in a more laissez-faire market environment.

You can also use targeted tariffs on a country whose trade imbalance with you is so stark that they can only offer token resistance to them as a bargaining chip for more favorable trade conditions.

>CAPS LOCK

Not an argument

>>3763779
>High tariffs were also the norm for much of U.S. history up until the mid-1940s
so were 90% income taxes on the 1%, america's most prosperous years had ridiculously high income taxes

>>3763785
>prosperous

How so? If simply taking all of the money a small but influential percentage of the population made worked the country wouldn't have been mired in historical debt at that time. To use a more modern anecdote, the proposed "70%" tax being floated in certain circles is only estimated to provide the federal government with a meager 72 billion in additional funds (current tax revenues being 3.4 trillion).

It's important to note that with Eisenhower's administration these were the years shortly following the greatest global conflict that had ever been seen up to that point (and Loomis-willing will ever be seen again). It's simply not comparable to compare the 1950s, even up to the 1980s when real economic globalization was not established in the way that it is today to the here and now where any major company can pack up and leave for a better deal elsewhere at the slightest provocation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ihPDS3O54k

>>3761480
imagine supporting a clinton-tier kiddie diddler freak

>>3761383
That fucking tarot card picture though
Fucking cancer

>>3761383
Not an amputee. not politically correct enough

>>3761567
This might have been true in Stalin's USSR, but communism in any remotely scientific/Marxist form strives to be as far from nationalism or the concept of a nation or state as possible.

>>3761383
None, because I find there's a fairly positive correlation with "involving political stuff into your work" and "people losing their shit and fighting holy wars over nothing"

>>3764457
>just wanted to post the ridiculous OP image for a laugh
>turned into a thread with legitimate politics arguing
I don't know what I expected, but I feel like I did something wrong

>>3764406
>this tinfoil hat retardation

the Clintons really have had people killed tho

>>3764716
Nobody ever sued a Clinton alleging they fucked a 13-year-old in 1994 at a party hosted by a convicted kid diddler. That's Trump.

Plus Trump has been a useful idiot for Russian mobsters, Italian mobsters, Russian counter-intelligence, and a bunch of other organizations that are known for murdering folks. How do you know Trumpo hasn't killed anyone?

And even if Trump didn't kill anyone directly, people in his transition team leaked the identities of American assets in the Russian state department. Now all those assets are dead. Regardless of whether or not he's directly killed people, his treason has caused the deaths of hundreds.

>>3764713
>saying the p word and being surprised that all this not-art happened

>>3761383
I want to make a comic that promotes confidence, masculinity and femininity, self improvement, and a stateless society.
I want to portray minorities as capable and beautiful instead of the ugly house niggers the left wants us to be.

>>3764787
>instead of the ugly house niggers the left wants us to be.
>us
post a picture of your dick

>>3761383
Used to draw illustrations for a kinda neo-nazi magazine, like actual neo-nazi's... 'twas fun to do, but once I felt my anonimity started to slip I stopped asap.

>>3764787
what's up with racist white kids larping as niggers? Are you jealous of them or something? You wish you were black?

>>3764797
pyw

>>3764763
you really bought the trump is a russian pawn routine? wew lad, watch some more cnn. hillary sold almost a third of all uranium assets to russia, bill clinton signed NAFTA. fuck off spastic

>>3764763
>get BTFO
>can only prattle on with more unsubstantiated WE WUZ KANGZ-tier yellow journalism as a red herring

I guess because a guy I used to work alongside and was on friendly terms with got convicted of dealing hard drugs (which I was personally happy about when I found out btw, fuck that home wrecking piece of shit) that makes me a drug dealer too, or that you and me both are pedophiles vicariously for using this shitty website.

>>3764802
>>racist white kids
>IF YOU'RE A MINORITY AND CARE ABOUT YOUR FREEDOM YOU'RE A WHITE LARPER
Shut the fuck up, white boy.

>>3764805
>you really bought the trump is a russian pawn routine?
He has been since 1987. They've been his daddy after the 90s. He's exceptionally bad at business and incredibly stupid. After he lost all his money and American credit in the 90s the only people willing to work with him were Russians looking to launder money. Trump Tower, Trump Towers Rio, the golf courses, all of it is a money laundering scheme.
>wew lad, watch some more cnn.
I mean you can read about all this stuff too. It's not exactly a secret. CNN is probably talking about how the FBI's been investigating whether he's an acting agent for Russians since he fired Comey over "the Russia thing."
>hillary sold almost a third of all uranium assets to russia
k. I know that your handlers have you convinced that whataboutism is cool and all, but when you justify what you support by whatabouting to things you don't support, you're literally the exact same thing as a communist.

Even if you wanted to try and draw an equivalence between the Obama administration selling uranian assets and Donald Trump's 30+ year business and personal relationship with Russian counter-intelligence, it's not an argument. The existence of assholes doesn't justify being an asshole. You can try and bring up every other scumbag on Earth, and Trump will still be a Russian-compromised kid-diddling retard. You'll just be distracted.
>bill clinton signed NAFTA.
OH NO! GLOBALISM BAD! ECONOMICS CONFUSING! NAFTA WAS EVIL SO WE CHANGED THE NAME TO USMCA WHILE MAKING VERY LITTLE CHANGES AND NOW IT RULEZ!!! BASED TRUMP CHANGE THE NAME OF THAT THING I WAS TRAINED TO DISLIKE!
> fuck off spastic
You're the shortsighted nigger shill for an embarrassing reality-tv kid-diddling traitor that with clown hair covering grotesque surgical scars. You uncritically consume and parrot messaging strategy being boosted by a foreign antagonist that literally wants you to kill yourself.

Everything you care about is a distraction.

>>3764811
obviously you're a larper you faux-nigger 14-year-old.

It doesn't

>>3764808
>get BTFO
I like how you've been so thoroughly trained by communists that you think whataboutism and impotently trying to change the subject is anything other than pathetic. You don't have an argument. You only understand how to think like a literal child. The whole imrubber/urglue meme is something that you're supposed to grow out of in 3rd grade. How fucking degenerate were your nigger parents are raising you? Why aren't you embarrassed?

>I guess because a guy I used to work alongside and was on friendly terms with got convicted of dealing hard drugs
Are you schizophrenic? What in the fuck do I give a wet shit about your faggot life you sniveling narcissist?

Your delusional disorder is being rewarded and encouraged by the people you trust. They want you to be worse. They won't care when you kill yourself.

>>3764832
Even people in the 90s could see the writing on the wall regarding NAFTA, you on the other hand can't even see it from the privileged position of the present

https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/mexican-stereotype/n10486

I already posted this up thread but in case you missed it: this sort of scene has been playing out across the country for decades thanks to "free trade agreements" with weak currency/slave labor countries

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ihPDS3O54k

>OH NO! GLOBALISM BAD! ECONOMICS CONFUSING!

Regards, a mentally ill and sheltered trust fund kid that's literally never had a job in his life, but on the off chance you ever lifted a single finger to work feel free to go on a long-winded tangent about this flippant statement to try and distract from how consistently wrong you are lmao

>NAFTA WAS EVIL SO WE CHANGED THE NAME TO USMCA WHILE MAKING VERY LITTLE CHANGES

Don't pretend for a moment you've ever read the terms when you can't even bother to read the replies to you in this thread with good faith.

>Starting in 2020, 30 percent of vehicle production must be done by workers earning an average production wage of at least $16 per hour.

>That’s about three times the pay of the average Mexican autoworker. In 2023, the production percentage rises to 40 percent

This alone decentivizes production leaving the US further while still allowing the current status quo to proceed without too violent a disruption in too short of a time

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/10/01/comparison-nafta-and-usmca-trade-agreements/1487163002/

>everything you care about is a distraction

Not an argument

>>3764861
>meme graphic
wow I wonder what happened in the late 90s that led to manufacturing jobs declining. Certainly didn't have anything to do with computers and automation and the internet industrial revolution or anything. It's cause the dang Mexicans!

What next you're going to meme about coal jobs too?

>Even people in the 90s could see the writing on the wall regarding NAFTA
"Many economists consider that NAFTA was beneficial for the United States.[59][60] In a 2012 survey of leading economists, 95% said that on average U.S. citizens benefited from NAFTA.[8] A 2001 Journal of Economic Perspectives review found that NAFTA was a net benefit to the United States.[9] A 2015 study found that US welfare increased by 0.08% as a result of NAFTA tariff reductions, and that US intra-bloc trade increased by 41%.[40]"

Oh but SNL made a skit in 1993?! WEW.

>I already posted this up thread but in case you missed it: this sort of scene has been playing out across the country for decades thanks to "free trade agreements" with weak currency/slave labor countries
Yeah standard stuff. We're cutting taxes for corporations and paying people garbage and laying them off and then instead of batting up at the people and policies directly making life worse, you're trained to bat down and away. Don't blame retarded economic policy or the shitty corporations that are ruining people's lives! Blame Mexico for having poor people willing to make shit for cheap! We should be exploiting OUR poor people! Fuck free markets! Socialism NOW!
>Regards, a mentally ill and sheltered trust fund kid that's literally never had a job in his life
Projecting? I've already talked about how I used to get paid Koch bucks for a few years. What are you 16?
> but on the off chance you ever lifted a single finger to work
What's it matter? This is all ad hominem. You don't have an argument. You're still a shill for a kid-diddling retard even if the person you're talking to is lazy.

>>3764861
> Don't pretend for a moment you've ever read the terms when you can't even bother to read the replies to you in this thread with good faith.
Are you pretending that you are? You JUST said:
>Regards, a mentally ill and sheltered trust fund kid that's literally never had a job in his life, but on the off chance you ever lifted a single finger to work feel free to go on a long-winded tangent about this flippant statement to try and distract from how consistently wrong you are lmao
This isn't something someone does in good faith. It's interesting how you choose to be a piece of shit and then accuse everyone else of being as much of a faggot as you are.

And have you read the terms of the USMCA, aka NAFTA 2.0? All this autism you're whining about NAFTA is still there. It's the same shit just updated and with a few fuck you concessions like more access to fucking Canadian dairy and shit. Manufacturing jobs aren't going to suddenly get un-automized because we slightly updated our trade agreement with our neighbors.
>This alone decentivizes production leaving the US further while still allowing the current status quo to proceed without too violent a disruption in too short of a time
Yeah it'll just increase the cost of living and stuff. Make cars more expensive for the American consumer. But hey Mexican laborers are getting FUCKING PAID by American companies now! Mexican laborers building our cars get twice our minimum wage!

Also we still American auto laborers like $30+ an hour. Sending manufacturing to mexico is still way cheaper. But hey that's a nice stimulus for the Mexican economy, who cares if it makes cars more expensive for American consumers!
>Not an argument
Yeah it actually is tho.

>>3764877
>Certainly didn't have anything to do with computers and automation and the internet industrial revolution or anything. It's cause the dang Mexicans!

Robots and computers were employed by automakers since the 70s.

If that many employees simply weren't needed because of automation more employees wouldn't be pursued and production facilities wouldn't be being built elsewhere, especially in places where the products would have to be transported great distances to the only people on this side of the hemisphere who'd be able to afford to buy them.

Once again, you're completely wrong and this time you're even holding two contradictory opinions about the same subject.

>Don't blame retarded economic policy

NAFTA and other "free trade agreements" with countries with weak currencies is the retarded economic policy

>Blame Mexico for having poor people willing to make shit for cheap!

You mean how American wages stagnated for decades overall but, completely coincidentally according to people like you, China's wages and Mexico's wages are rising exponentially during that exact same timeframe as automakers and other manufacturers compete for the labor that "automation" proponents claim aren't needed anymore to begin with?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mexicos-auto-production-boom-is-driving-up-labor-costs-1471201920

>We should be exploiting OUR poor people!

Auto workers in the US are well paid and have always been well paid even since the beginning.

https://www.npr.org/2014/01/27/267145552/the-middle-class-took-off-100-years-ago-thanks-to-henry-ford

NAFTA made domestic production illogical and even unviable, the USMCA terms regarding worker wages are a good answer to that

>We're cutting taxes for corporations

Good

>A 2015 study found that US welfare increased by 0.08%

Wow, a completely ambiguous metric increased by a whole fraction of a fraction of a percent, and all we had to do was trade our auto industry? What a deal!

>>3761383
Probably a big one, but not consciously. I don't make provocative art of any kind, but I guess drawing both people of my race and of other races constitutes some political statement.

>"Good, well-paying auto manufacturing jobs suddenly leaving the country in droves is fantastic because things cost marginally less and the corporations I hate are able to maintain as high of profit margins as possible

>Also we should tax corporations with a physical presence here at 90% and force them to double wages as this will have absolutely no consequences for the remaining labor market or the prices of goods and services whatsoever! I'm an economic genius! Socialism now!"

At least you're consistent, Jimmy

>>3764929
>Robots and computers were employed by automakers since the 70s.
Yeah you're right there is no difference between the use of computing machines in the 1970s and the global explosion of personal computers connected though a series of tubes, or the exponential growth and advancement of computing machines and their application or any of the other shit that we think of when we think of "the 90s." idk what decade you were born but 1990-2010 was defined by the explosion of technology and the internet revolution.

And even when we do want to pretend that things happened in a vacuum and NAFTA was the ONLY reason that manufacturing jobs in the US dwindled as we became a globalized consumer economy, who the fuck cares? Do you want to be working in a machine shop THAT bad? You wanna build Fords? You want to print shirts or weave artisanal baskets?

Should we just pay people to dig ditches? Why not?

>If that many employees simply weren't needed because of automation more employees wouldn't be pursued and production facilities wouldn't be being built elsewhere
No you need to rebuild and modernize production facilities every few decades generally. Next time your Detroit plant with 500 workers or whatever ages out, you just build the new fancy juan in Mexico where you pay 10 Mexicans $15/hr each to monitor all the fancy new machines.
>especially in places where the products would have to be transported great distances to the only people on this side of the hemisphere who'd be able to afford to buy them.
pretty easy to transpo shit meow.
>Once again, you're completely wrong
You're not even addressing the argument. You're trying to defend why we got bamboozled into letting mexicans unionize and get 3x more while still being half as expensive as American labor.
>NAFTA and other "free trade agreements" with countries with weak currencies is the retarded economic policy
Eh it strengthens our currency by making it globally traded and enforced and stuf

>>3764929
>You mean how American wages stagnated for decades overall but, completely coincidentally according to people like you, China's wages and Mexico's wages are rising exponentially during that exact same timeframe
Yeah they're burgeoning economies. They're essentially going through puberty/adolescence. And we're a mature economy. You're like a 45 year old, looking at how much some 14 year olds are growing and getting jealous.

Why exactly do you think other countries shouldn't grow and thrive as economies tailored to serve us? It's like you learned that the bellman makes $40,000 a year and now you refuse to tip until they make $30,000 or something.

And why not just support living wage adjustments for US workers if you have a problem with our stagnating wages? Why not just pay our workers more instead of competing with places that pay their workers shit? What happened to American exceptionalism?

>that "automation" proponents claim aren't needed anymore to begin with?
lol "proponents." I ike how observable, unambiguous reality has to be something with opponents.

>NAFTA made domestic production illogical and even unviable
No Mexico's low cost of living did. And in exchange for less American workers doing nothing jobs making bullshit, we got all that bullshit cheaper! The economic exchange here was and always is in OUR favor. We lost how many manufacturing jobs in the last 30 years? How many jobs related to the internet are there now? How many were there 30 years ago?

Like idk how to explain that the things you care about ARE DISTRACTIONS. Who cares if manufacturing jobs went down? Do you think there weren't other jobs? And if you want 1950s-style manufacturing, you probably want 1950's-style taxes.
>Good
You're a cuck for Exxon my dude. A lot of money was spent for you to feel this way.
>Wow, a completely ambiguous metric increased by a whole fraction of a fraction of a percent,
Yeah that's good. This is a benefit.

fucking bootlickers

>>3764980
>Good, well-paying auto manufacturing jobs suddenly leaving the country in droves is fantastic
sure? Guess they were too high paying. Are you a socialist?
>because things cost marginally less
if you're talking about the difference in labor cost, it's not "marginally less." We can not even get close to competing with their low costs of living that makes paying people like $.30 an hour or whatever work. the only way we really compete against those kinds of production costs, ironically, is through automation. Which aint helping your muh jobs autism.
>and the corporations I hate are able to maintain as high of profit margins as possible
idk how this part follows the first part. Are you literally projecting your own schizophrenia at me?
>Also we should tax corporations with a physical presence here at 90%
sure if we want to be dumping money into the kind of production and manufacturing opportunities that where being funded then.
> and force them to double wages
Yeah if you want to stop killing the middle class it'd help. Cost of living in most places is twice as high as the minimum wage. When employers don't pay their employees enough, the government has to cover the difference through food stamps and other forms of welfare. Not paying people a living wage is corporate socialism.
>as this will have absolutely no consequences for the remaining labor market
You think the deregulated Trump economy and the trillions of dollars from the corporate ta cuts being dumped into those markets is going to have any consequences? You think the 2008 crash had any consequences on any labor markets? You think the next will?
>or the prices of goods and services whatsoever!
Oh no Trump has ensured that our cost of living is going to increase faster than projected with the Tariffs and everything else. Everything is going to continue getting expensive and wages will continue to stagnate and manufacturing jobs will only come back after the entire economy collapses

>>3761495
Imagine being so booty blasted about an election 2 years ago, you attack anyone who voices their support for the President, proving the original comment correct in the process.

>>3764832
you accuse me of parroting stuff when you are a funnel for leftist drivel being pumped and drilled into a populace. and your art is traced shit, so you have no right to talk about anything you grid using mouthbreathing retard

this will be my last reply to you, you (You)hungry little obnoxious know-it-all piece of human waste. kys cunt or at least stop posting and spare people your ugly, unappealing and lazy 'art'. It makes me want to vomit. You shit up every thread with your gay shit and people don't even want you near them. I bet it's the same in real life. Jesus chirst man get a grip I'm out

>>3763681
There's no bad art.

>>3765230
>Imagine being so booty blasted about an election 2 years ago,
I think the irony of this statement is most Trump supporters didn't think he was going to win. You probably didn't want to have to be married to shilling for that retard for years. It was a lot easier for you when he had someone he was running against. All you had to do was whine about Clinton. But now there's nothing for you to whatabout to. Just ya boy acting like a fucking retard constantly and you having to justify why.
>you attack anyone who voices their support for the President
If you can't handle the banter you can always shut the fuck up? Or kill yourself? I don't care. It's not anyone's job to cater to your faggot feelings. If you want to shill for a belligerent retard traitor, get ready to get mocked about it. You think anyone on 4chan ever fucking talked about how much they supported Obama or Bush? Fuck no. They'd get goddamn ridiculed. Welcome to reality you sniveling nigger.
> proving the original comment correct in the process
I'm fine with "proving" the original comment correct. If you want to feel persecuted and victimized by your support for a fucking retard, I can't stop you. That's your faggot life. I'll be your huckleberry. I'll bully you for the dumb shit you got hoodwinked into believing by bad people. 4chan isn't your safespace. If you want to be a pathetic cultist where they'll ban all the people that aren't Russian shills, go to reddit.

>>3765375
>you accuse me of parroting stuff
you parrot stuff. Everything you think to say or care about has been conditioned. You've got that NPC programming.
>when you are a funnel for leftist drivel being pumped and drilled into a populace.
Eh I'm not a leftist, and I'm kind of just referring to reality. I get that you Republican cultists struggle with this, but you're shills for things that aren't real. Which makes you get so confused that you think "reality" is just "leftist drivel" because it clashes with the corporate protectionism policies you support
>and your art is traced shit
better than yours amirite
>so you have no right to talk about anything you grid using mouthbreathing retard
So I can't have an opinion on politics because muh art isn't nice enough? What in the fuck are you doing then? You don't even have a pict related you degenerate cunt
>this will be my last reply to you
lol I bet. See you in fucking weeks when you're talking shit at me in a completely unrelated thread. I'd love it if (you) literally never interact with me again but I doubt you'll do that.
>you (You)hungry little obnoxious know-it-all piece of human waste.
You're so upset! Just because you shill for an idiot? Just stop shilling for them! It's not going to get better! It's only going to get more embarrassing. It's not my fault. Don't take it out on me my dood.
>kys cunt or at least stop posting and spare people your ugly, unappealing and lazy 'art'.
I mean if you're this upset I don't see why I shouldn't keep posting. I'm out of political memes though
>It makes me want to vomit
film it!
>You shit up every thread with your gay shit and people don't even want you near them.
sexually?
>I bet it's the same in real life.
implying I leave the house lol. I like how none of this is an argument lol. You're still a shill for a belligerent traitor haha.
>Jesus chirst man get a grip I'm out
When you can't handle criticism of your cult, you gotta self-censor and self-isolate.

>>3763596
every time i see your art i think that it was a mistake to abandon the insane asylum, you should be lobotomised so its easier on your handlers.

>>3765379
>>3766027
>>3766014
this is the work and words of a complete lunatic.

GOD DAMN Jimmy you may be a mediocre artist but I fucking love your political shitposting.

Trump cucks BTFO

>>3761383
Almost all of my political views except on the environment are the controversial ones, so I'm hesitant to share them. That, and politics has nothing to do with drawing naked orcs and naked furries.

>>3766014
Your first point is mindless speculation, your second point is 100% projection and, your third point is insane ramblings.

But yeah, argue against 10 people who don't really care on an anonymous art board. That'll show us.

>>3767754
>Your first point is mindless speculation
So was the thing I was responding 2 qt.
> your second point is 100% projection
I enjoy the banter tho.
>your third point is insane ramblings.
define insane.
>But yeah, argue against 10 people who don't really care on an anonymous art board.
Pretty sure it's been like 3 ITT. And of course NOW it's all "haha I don't even care guys." Like you care enough to actively shill for a belligerent idiot that panders to insecurity and fear and stuff. Like if you truly didn't care would this post have been posted?
>That'll show us.
I mean I already showed all muh politikal art ITT. Responded to the OP in an extended shitpost explaining how "my politics" play in my "art." The whole point of ever engaging is to "show" (You) something, when you think about and then don't think about very much.
>>3766495
I'm not poor for another couple of years. People with money aren't lunatics. They're eccentric.

Bumping to save thread; haven't had computer access for a few days

>>3768267

Here's a poll about Jimmy's notorious shitposting - vote!

https://linkto.run/p/RWMMFEM6

>>3768862
>56% NO.

I love Democracy.

>>3768939
>check the map
>all the "No"s are coming form one single spot

can you make it any more obvious, Jimbo?

>>3768939
You aren’t clever, Jimbo. Though Anon is a fucking retard for using the easiest to spoof voting system.

>>3768862
NEW POLL

the memeschlock trashman has voted for himself almost 50 times.

This poll only allows one vote per visitor:

>Do you want Jimmy (memeschlock) to fuck off and stop shitposting outside of his containment thread?
VOTE

https://linkto.run/p/82TZQ8DD

>>3768959
How do you see that? I see where all the votes have come from but I don't see how you see which way those votes went.

Also it's pretty unambiguous that you're just spamming your own poll. Just went up by another 60 lol. Every single daily /ic/ user must be taking the poll at the exact same time!

>>3768972
See
>>3768967
That was to prove a point dumbass.
The saddest part is you think anyone on this board actually wants you here.

NEW POLL

the memeschlock trashman has voted for himself almost 50 times.

This poll only allows one vote per visitor:

>Do you want Jimmy (memeschlock) to fuck off and stop shitposting outside of his containment thread?
VOTE

https://linkto.run/p/82TZQ8DD

>>3768978
>That was to prove a point dumbass.
What was to prove a point? That it's easy to samefag vote on online polls?
>The saddest part is you think anyone on this board actually wants you here.
The saddest part is that you think it matters. The funniest part is if it wasn't for upset cucks like you giving me conflict to meme about, I wouldn't even be here! If this board was full of praise or positive attention, I'd probably have left a long time ago.

You're covered in soup my düd. You'll always be covered in soup. You are the cause of all of your problems. And I'm your huckleberry.

>>3769004
there is no other way of beating it into your tiny head that you are an annoying little shit with your constant self-shilling and crossposting in threads where all you contribute is your viagra-spam-tier meme bullshit.
does that ring a bell?

---

VOTE on memeschlocks behavior:
https://linkto.run/p/82TZQ8DD

>>3769014
>there is no other way of beating it into your tiny head that you are an annoying little shit
it's funny because projection. How exactly is what you're doing not the behavior of "an annoying little shit?" You're spamming memepolls in every thread, derailing every thread to whine at me about your sniveling feelings. Be more butthurt and impotent lol.
>with your constant self-shilling and crossposting in threads where all you contribute is your viagra-spam-tier meme bullshit.
And derailing everything into personal vendettas and ONLY talking about how upset you are across multiple threads is a wonderful contribution to this community. What would /ic/ be if there weren't degenerate loser kids like you smearing shit on the walls because you're jealous and triggered about a shitty meme painter.

Like why are you even on /ic/ other than to project your feelings anonymously at strangers? What do you contribute to any community other than all your cancerous malignant angst?

>>3765032
>Guess they were too high paying. Are you a socialist?

Is every employer that has a single employee earning more money than the federal or local government mandates that they should socialist? Was your dad's employer a socialist for paying him enough that you can live the carefree lifestyle you do now? Voluntary unions aren't socialism, either.

>Cost of living in most places is twice as high as the minimum wage

Well under 4% of workers make the federal minimum wage or below (3.3% total, 2% full time, 7% part-time) and the plurality of them are service workers making gratuity, bartenders, servers etc. Estimates of these earnings range between $7 an hour on the very lowest end and $13 an hour on the high end (tax free in most cases), in other words many "minimum wage and below" workers are very likely making "twice as high as the minimum wage" to begin with, even ones only making a few dollars an hour.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2015/home.htm

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/02/how-much-do-waiters-really-earn-in-tips/385515/

(Whatever your opinion about tipping itself, even with minimum wage serving staff the net profit margins in an average restaurant chain are 3-5% and 60% of them bite the dust within 3 years as it is, voluntary gratuity is a good compromise for a volatile, low net-profit industry.)

There is a stronger correlation geographically between an increased cost of living and minimum wage than there is between the average wage and minimum wage.

>When employers don't pay their employees enough, the government has to cover the difference through food stamps and other forms of welfare

The people that need food stamps and other forms of welfare are already getting them tho. As we'd established up-thread, a 70% tax on "the rich" would net 72 billion additional dollars, that's about $18 per month per person in this country. Congratulations, you just solved food insecurity, the student debt crisis, high prices and corruption in the healthcare sector all in one-and all you had to do was make outsourcing and black market labor even more attractive than it already is.

>Not paying people a living wage is corporate socialism.

Not every business is a corporation, and today's "living wage" is tomorrow's "minimum wage" as prices quickly catch up to new business expenses, you can see that in the micro level in anecdotal stories of small business owners getting cucked into the choice of, often drastically increasing their prices, letting workers go or reducing their hours, or insolvency

http://www.startribune.com/restaurant-owners-say-mpls-at-the-beginning-of-minimum-wage-odyssey/433021573/

>You think the deregulated Trump economy and the trillions of dollars from the corporate tax cuts being dumped into those markets is going to have any consequences?

Yes I do, similar consequences to those faced by the working class in China and Mexico: more competitive labor markets leading to higher wages and a higher overall standard of living.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/wages-rise-at-fastest-rate-in-nearly-a-decade-as-hiring-jumps-in-october-1541161920

>if you want 1950s-style manufacturing, you probably want 1950's-style taxes.

A non-sequitur, but as has already been posted not only was the country buried in more debt than it'd ever been before despite the supposed high tax rate (alluding to the complete irrelevence of this tax's effect on the economy overall), but the top 1% were not paying much more than they were recently:

https://taxfoundation.org/taxes-rich-1950-not-high/

Every business is contingent on the existence of other businesses to operate; distributors, wholesalers, farmers and miners etc., so of course we want manufacturing like we want anything else; the idea that we don't want jobs here because it makes stuff cheaper hinges on the implication that things were that much more expensive in the recent past versus inflation, that cars were unable to be sold, houses went without roofs etc.

>Oh no Trump has ensured that our cost of living is going to increase faster than projected with the Tariffs and everything else

What you're saying is that "taxes on the goods and services domestic corporations produce are good and will pay for everything we need as a society despite that being demonstrably false, but (temporarily enforced) taxes on the goods and services foreign corporations produce and import using slave labor (for leverage) are bad and will increase prices". The fact is that of these things will increase prices but the former will do so drastically moreso than the latter.

>if you want 1950s-style manufacturing, you probably want 1950's-style taxes.

A non-sequitur, but as has already been posted not only was the country buried in more debt than it'd ever been before despite the supposed high tax rate (alluding to the complete irrelevence of this tax's effect on the economy overall), but the top 1% were not paying much more than they were recently:

https://taxfoundation.org/taxes-rich-1950-not-high/

Every business is contingent on the existence of other businesses to operate; distributors, wholesalers, farmers and miners etc., so of course we want manufacturing like we want anything else; the idea that we don't want jobs here because it makes stuff cheaper hinges on the implication that things were that much more expensive in the recent past versus inflation, that cars were unable to be sold, houses went without roofs etc.

>Oh no Trump has ensured that our cost of living is going to increase faster than projected with the Tariffs and everything else

What you're saying is that "taxes on the goods and services domestic corporations produce are good and will pay for everything we need as a society (which is demonstrably false), but (temporarily enforced) taxes on the goods and services foreign corporations produce and import using slave labor (for leverage) are bad and will increase prices". The fact is that of these things will increase prices but the former will do so drastically moreso than the latter, or they'll just go out of business entirely taking their dozens, hundreds, thousands, or hundreds of thousands of employees with them-all while imperiling further companies that relied on their continued operation for their own income.

oh wow, i saw this thread a few days ago and while I thought about my answer, apparently a lot happened.
I just wanted to pipe in that I don't think my political views invade my visual art so much, but they definitely play a huge part in my writing, especially wrt sci-fi. But that's part of what sci-fi is for, not just exploring the outermost possibilities of technology, but how that technology affects those who use it.
But if I'm mostly planning on painting portraits and scenery, my political views don't much come into play, because i'm not so heavy-handed as to be a political cartoonist.
The one thing that I will actually try to put in my art from time to time calls attention to disability, I suppose.I know a hefty handful of people with various disabilities, especially my mother, and since disability is something that can happen to literally anyone, i've spent a lot of time thinking about it. When actually sketching out a scene from something set in the future, or when thinking about my own writing, I guess i like to put accessibility at the forefront, and aesthetics come after.

>>3771531
Oh! I forgot to add that again, wrt writing, I am enjoying making use of neutral pronouns (they/them) when introducing a mysterious character who is doing something devious behind the scenes, because I can then keep even their gender a secret from the audience. So they could literally be anyone, and when the reveal happens, or when it is slowly revealed, it's a bit more fun. I suppose that's kind of been made a political thing nowadays, but it's something I personally enjoy utilizing.

Quite a bit. Everything, every part of my personality plays a role in the work I create.

None at the moment. I don’t have a lot to say via art, even though politically I’m a very opinionated person. I’ve thought about doing political cartoons once or twice but by the time I’ve sat down to draw, the joke got old and the hate wouldn’t be worth it. I don’t want to be a political cartoonist anyway, why would I want to keep my finger on the pulse of politics just to churn out art that becomes irrelevant as soon as another controversy/gaffe comes up?
I suppose that the story I’m writing has political elements in it? But not terribly explicit. Showing how the Viet Cong and communists in general are murderous bastards would be as explicit as I have planned, but it’s part of my protag’s backstory. I guess there’s a criticism of media and the sensational press too. But nothing too partisan, at least, nothing that SHOULD be partisan.

>>3761495
>You’re in a cult
Classic. Ignore the creepy chanting and shit coming from left wing protests.
>repeat after me, flock
And they think that they’re individualists, that they’re really brave in what they’re doing. Sorry but consensus culture is neither charitable or brave, your political stance is free and comes at no social or personal cost.

>>3761504
>trans tarot
>thinking that gender archetypes in tarot literally represent gender for people irl
>what is symbolism
>what are archetypes
For fucks sake these people need to read some Jung and realize you don’t need to become the opposite sex or found a new gender just to become more masculine or feminine and live an authentic life. As he puts it, the most masculine man has a feminine soul and vice versa. Fuck. Me. Is there anything they haven’t perverted

>>3771597
>Classic. Ignore the creepy chanting and shit coming from left wing protests.
whataboutism. Why is it that you determine what you think is acceptable behavior for you and your "side" by seeking out crazy examples of what "le other side" does?

Like how exactly do you think cults function? It's ALL about propping up an Other to radicalize and agitate against. Why do you think all of the media you consume is endlessly focused on finding the most irrational, hysterical retards to highlight and circlejerk about?

Like you're being actively targeted by corporations and foreign agencies that have an interest in seeing your life get worse, but hey those corporations and foreign agencies showed you a video of some "creepy chanting" coming from the other side so obviously you should let the fear that is being cultivated in you determine what you support. Do you ever really think critically about WHY you support the people you do, other than out of spite for the villians they make you care about?
>And they think that they’re individualists
Yeah those boogiemen I'm conditioned to reflexively think about and act against are sheep! NPCs!
> that they’re really brave in what they’re doing
Do you think that being scared of libruls and shilling for exxon is something brave people do? How much of the shit you support is because of fear? That chanting is creepy! Muslims are scary! We gotta build a wall to keep out all the scawy mexican rapists!
> Sorry but consensus culture is neither charitable or brave,
But you support the party in power. You support the people that control everything.
>your political stance is free and comes at no social or personal cost.
Then why shill for Exxon? Why shill for your own quality of life going down and cost of life going up? Why do you want to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on healthcare
in your life? The average American spends $300,000 on not dying before hey die. Why do you support that?

>>3770524
>Is every employer that has a single employee earning more money than the federal or local government mandates that they should socialist?
No. That's not what I axed. You take issue with free trade agreements that help companies get access to cheaper labor so they can offer their products at more competitive prices. You support Mexican laborers unionizing and making $15/hr wages when their living wage is probably a few dollars. You support government policies and taxes on businesses to punish them for taking advantage of cheap labor opportunities. This is all socialism memes.
> Was your dad's employer a socialist for paying him enough that you can live the carefree lifestyle you do now?
My dad was in private practice. Self-employed. Although he did do a lot of advising for a bunch of Think Tanks and was contracted by the Kochs for a while as an advisor. His background in behavioral psychology and using neurofeedback software to train people's cognition was being actively sought out after 2008, when the Republicans got blindsided by the effectiveness of social media. So in that instance his employers were "Libertarian" corporatists that microtarget their followers with psychological manipulation and abuse to keep them compliant and committed to supporting policies against their own interests.
>Voluntary unions aren't socialism, either.
No they kind of fundamentally always are "socialism."
>Well under 4% of workers make the federal minimum wage or below
Yeah and cost of living is still twice as high as living wage in most places. People making $8.50 or $10 are still often pretty far away from making a living wage. Stack that on top of companies limiting hours to avoid insuring people, and you end up with millions of people spending all of their time working multiple jobs just to keep up.

>and the plurality of them are service workers making gratuity, bartenders, servers etc
yeah once again an example of the cost of living and cost of goods being inflated for the consumer, by policies designed to protect the corporation. Companies are allowed to pay their people nothing because of the crowdsourced mandated contributions of strangers.

Also I'm not sure what your point really is. This is all just a distraction. The fact that most Americans make more than $7 an hour works AGAINST your point. If we wanted to be competing with China or Mexico, we'd need to be paying WAY more of our workers WAY less than is economically plausible.

>>3770528
>The people that need food stamps and other forms of welfare are already getting them tho.
Yeah and it costs the government billions and billions a year. Every walmart costs taxpayers ~a million dollars a year through medicaid and foodstamps and other government entitlements given to their underpayed employees. When companies don't pay their employees enough, we cover the difference.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/04/18/there-is-no-walmart-tax-every-tax-day-we-get-told-there-is-and-every-year-its-still-untrue/#1bb82fee41fe
https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-walmart-workers-cost-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/#5f5adf6b720b
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/04/15/we-are-spending-153-billion-a-year-to-subsidize-mcdonalds-and-walmarts-low-wage-workers/
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2013-11-13/how-mcdonald-s-and-wal-mart-became-welfare-queens

> As we'd established up-thread, a 70% tax on "the rich" would net 72 billion additional dollars
Imagine how many slated steel fences that could build! And we're not really just talking about a 70% tax on "the rich." We just cut $2 trillion a year, mostly in corporate taxes. You corporate protectionists are trained to ignore that and just pretend like it's an attack on "the rich."

>>3761383
None at all, unless you count lack of politics. I draw nude girls all the time. I don't care at all about "objectifying and sexualizing women." I could care less if some twitter hambeasts throw a tantrum.

> Congratulations, you just solved food insecurity, the student debt crisis, high prices and corruption in the healthcare sector all in one-and all you had to do was make outsourcing and black market labor even more attractive than it already is.
This is entirely hysterical nonsense. We have the most corrupt, most expensive healthcare system in the world by a wide margin. And it only keeps getting more expensive as we keep cutting taxes for corporations and deregulating health insurance companies. You're just saying things.

>Not every business is a corporation,
The ones we're talking about are. You're just arguing to argue but you don't really have a point. Just talking points.

>and today's "living wage" is tomorrow's "minimum wage"
Yeah that's how inflation works. Time is entropy. You generally want to keep up to prevent the kind of economic catastrophe we are barreling towards. Cost of education, cost of living, cost of healthcare, cost of everything else has exploded in the last 40 years. Minimum wage has gone up by like $5. This has lead to the shrinking middle class, more debt, more bankruptsies, less expendable income, less opportunities for investment, less average savings, etc. Income and wealth inequality has exploded and upward mobility is stagnating. These are all what happens when you refuse to keep pace with the economy.

> you can see that in the micro level in anecdotal stories of small business
Literally fucking kill yourself. MUH ANECDOTES!
>Yes I do, similar consequences to those faced by the working class in China and Mexico: more competitive labor markets leading to higher wages and a higher overall standard of living.
Or we could, you know, look at how these policies effect an actual economy that is similar to ours. Like our economy. When we did the same deregulation in the late 90s, and the same corporate tax cuts in 2001, and the economy made it ~7 years before tanking. Corporations in China can pay their employees nothing because the state is willing to pay to keep the employees alive. They are a communist government that has control over every aspect of their economy. The fact that you justify the Trump tax cucks for corporations and deregulation of how banks can gamble on toxic debt is going to help US labor compete with a country that has more people getting paid a dollar a day, than our country has people.

>>3761383
Zero. But I appreciate that you asked and it would be interesting to read an answer from someone who does actually factor it in just out of curiosity. So I guess I should stop yapping and actually scroll down to see some of the answers.

>>3761448
That is hilarious.

>>3761536
Interesting answer. I like your themes at least visually, mentioned at the beginning, knightly stuff, purging evil, etc. I like that you have specific visual ideas.

>>3772162
>It is very silly that you justify the Trump tax cucks for corporations and deregulation of how banks can gamble with toxic debt, by arguing that it is going to help US labor compete with a country that has more people getting paid a dollar a day, than our country has people.
Meant to say that generally.

The point is that China literally has more people getting paid under the global poverty level or whatever than the US has people. China's PRIMARY strength is the number of people that they can throw at a thing. Taxing our companies for utilizing their cheap communistic labor doesn't stop them from having like 500 million poor people. In fact we are helping them evolve out of their communistic economic policy towards a more favorable capitalist economy. They are where America was during the industrial revolution. We had a bunch of people willing to work for cheap in factories that were innovating the manufacturing industry. And that led to unfathomable prosperity for the US that established them as a global powerhouse like nothing ever before experienced in history.

It's like we started as the bastard son of a failing empire, and then we rebelled and built a nation and an ideology unlike anything before, and we repeatedly played referee in resolving the bickering in Europe, and built our own Empire from a kernel of what we started with.

We started at the bottom and now we up here. The reason why I think American "conservatism" has become pathetic in the last ~40 years is that they've essentially entirely abandoned everything that kept the concept of American Exceptionalism afloat.

Like why the fuck do you want us to only really be competing with fuckstates like Mexico and China? Those places suck. We don't want our lives to be like those of the people that live in those places. If they want to sacrifice the qualify of life for hundreds of millions of people so that we can sweaters for cheap as fuck, good. Fuck em. That's their goof.

>>3761383
In my drawings? No, I've never made a political piece. Though if I were to create something like a series of works, or a comic/writing/etc I would doubtlessly have my politics influence stuff even if not intentionally.

>>3761657
This is the single worst take of my life. Sorry you can't stand art having meaning.

>>3761383
I use art to spread the glory of Communism and teach normalfags about the struggle of the lower classes (none of that SJW shit though)

>>3761383
I just use political shit to practice. I don't do anything serious with it though. Too many opinionated artists now anyways. I'm a hardcore commie (btfo) so I practice animating quick snippets of historical photos and whatnot and that's basically it.

>>3771962
>shilling for Exxon
Why are you pretending to know me? How do you know whether I even voted for Trump? Jesus Christ. And you really think that its the corporate media that’s pointing out the excesses of the left? Corporate is trying to sell you a fake revolution by pretending to be woke.
>hurr you must be motivated purely by irrational fear and hatred
I actually just hate seeing my country and the race that gave me everything get shit on by the left on a routine basis, and the statistics of inter-race relations are easily accessible. I hate being told what I can or can’t say or think or do with my own art. I hate how leftists have corporate hegemony, making it impossible to make any criticism of the system without getting demonetized and deplatformed. I hate social justice as the replacement religion that it really is. Granted, I’m not a NatSoc because Nazism is a replacement religion too, and replacing the conscience(which is effectively what “god” is) with the state is inherently evil.
You’ve been floating around here for awhile, I’m sure someone’s told you all of this. I’m sure you’ve seen for yourself how leftists are trying to erase all distinctions between beauty and ugliness in art. You don’t have to care, you can fuck off and maybe draw something for once, but don’t accuse anyone else of being in a cult when everything you’re saying comes from ideology. You’re so warped by ideology that you cannot even imagine why western people might NOT want to import unskilled, uneducated, and uncultured 3rd worlders. Fuck, I don’t want ANY kind of illegal immigration, I don’t care if they’re Honduran or Russian, they don’t belong here, this is our home and they would disrespect us by violating our laws. Can you empathize with ANY of that? Or do you believe in the white man’s burden, the way that most white liberals do?

>>3773182
>Why are you pretending to know me?
I'm not. You support policies that are designed to essentially only benefit fossil fuel companies.
>How do you know whether I even voted for Trump?
I mean why the fuck would be doing this otherwise? Are you saying you didn't?
>Jesus Christ. And you really think that its the corporate media that’s pointing out the excesses of the left?
A: obviously.
B: Fucking obviously. Are you retarded? The "left" in the US aren't anywhere near as big of degenerate cucks for malignant corporations as the "right" has become. You dumb niggers are trained to reject scientific consensus about shit like global warming because addressing that involves policies that would make things more difficult for Exxon. So Exxon spends a lot of money "pointing out the excesses of the left" so that you shills can more easily justify to yourselves why you're shills. As long as you have someone on le other side to whatabout to you'll just keep yourself distracted while you let people that hate you fuck you in your faggot face.
>Corporate is trying to sell you a fake revolution by pretending to be woke.
I mean shit like Pepsi and Nike and whatever Razor company that get attention by triggering retards with political ads are really just trying to sell products. Not that any of this has anything to do with how everything you care about is being boosted by bad actor agencies that want you to self-destruct. You're being manipulated by an entire fucking plunderbund of assholes that laugh privately about how stupid they think you are.
>I actually just hate seeing my country and the race that gave me everything get shit on by the left
NIgger you're a shill for someone that spent years shitting on the country. And your "race that gave you everything?" What in the fuck does that even mean?

And why the fuck don't you feel embarrassing when you're so obsessed about the lottery conditions of your birth? What have you done for white people?

>>3773182
>I actually just hate seeing my country and the race that gave me everything get shit on by the left on a routine basis,
and another thing is that if you actually hate seeing this shit, you'd stop consuming the media you do. You only really see that shit when it's being actively sought out, and when you're consuming corporatist or active measures propaganda, that is ALL they are interested in showing you. It's ALL about keeping you radicalized and agitated. If you left your cult you'd be less angry. The people abusing you are the ones you trust.
>and the statistics of inter-race relations are easily accessible.
White genocide is real! You're being extincted because nobody will touch your dick!
>I hate being told what I can or can’t say or think or do with my own art.
No you almost certainly just like feeling persecuted and victimized. You're a dumb, emotional nigger. You can just make whatever the fuck you want. You choose to do nothing and blame libruls about it. You may lie to yourself but it's clear you're full of shit. Cry more little girl.
>I hate how leftists have corporate hegemony
they don't. you're retarded. also clearly a NEET
>making it impossible to make any criticism of the system without getting demonetized and deplatformed.
Bet you've barely tried. Just follow a bunch of histrionic nazifaggots that get themselves banned on purpose so they can scream about how they're being deplatformed.
>I hate social justice as the replacement religion that it really is.
You're a bigger sjw than anyone. Look at all this hysterical society bullshit you're obsessed about.
>Granted, I’m not a NatSoc because Nazism is a replacement religion too
It is. It's a cult. Being encouraged and promoted by a foreign antagonist that wants you to self-destruct.
>and replacing the conscience(which is effectively what “god” is) with the state is inherently evil.
No you're just really stupid. Desperate4adaddy.

>>3761383
My political views are very much in the background if theyre even in at all. The only time my politics ever come into the picture is if I'm drawing it something with a story about society or someone tries to commission me for something I don't feel comfortable doing. I'd politely tell them that wasn't interested in it and that's about it. I try to distance myself from real world politics as much as possible when I draw. It's an escape like vidya and anime.

>>3773182
>You’ve been floating around here for awhile
idk who you are.
>I’m sure someone’s told you all of this
What repeated the exact same talking points as you are right now? Yeah absolutely. You're all uniformly conditioned.
>I’m sure you’ve seen for yourself how leftists are trying to erase all distinctions between beauty and ugliness in art.
No you're kind of just a hysterical idiot. And seems pretty clear that you don't actually have an entry-level of art history or theory education. Just emotional reactionary ignorance. Are you 13? 15?
> You don’t have to care
You shouldn't care. It's a made up dilemma. You have a psychotic disorder.
>you can fuck off and maybe draw something for once
drew a demon batman for a while the other day
>but don’t accuse anyone else of being in a cult
I can and I have. You are unambiguously in a cult. The people you trust want you to self-destruct.
>when everything you’re saying comes from ideology.
I'm an absurdist. And what in the fuck does that even mean? I can't comment about how you're in a corporatist cult that is destroying your sense-of-self because I also have an ideological framework for how I navigate the world? Are you literally psychotic?
>You’re so warped by ideology
projecting. Keep ranting about how libruls are ruining art or whatever. Keep fucking whining.
>hat you cannot even imagine why western people might NOT want to import unskilled, uneducated, and uncultured 3rd worlders.
Yeah you want WHITE PEOPLE to be working in the sweat shops. You want WHITE PEOPLE picking peas for a few dollars an hour! And you only want SKILLED immigration! Fuck our doctors and engineers!
>Fuck, I don’t want ANY kind of illegal immigration
Yeah and dumbing billions on building a wall in the desert sure will stop all the people that fly in and overstay visas! Also, nobody has been arguing FOR illegal immigration. It's been dropping for the past 20 years. Obama was Deporter In Chief.

>>3773182
>hat you cannot even imagine why western people might NOT want to import unskilled, uneducated, and uncultured 3rd worlders.
It's funny because what the fuck culture do you have? You jerk off to cartoons alone at home all day and whine about poor people and minorities are to blame for your life choices? Like what the fuck do you actually offer to ANY group, much less the vaguely defined concept of "white people."

Like you're bad at art right. You fundamentally refuse to GET most art. You choose to be reactionary and emotional and malignant. You choose to support policies that are turning the nation into a 3rd world country, and then act like a protectionist faggot about how ascared you are of strangers? Like nobody is coming here anymore. Nobody in the first world wants to live in a place where getting sick will bankrupt you. The ironic part of everything is that the only way you can stop immigration is to destroy the country. Which is what you're doing. Which is why immigration anxiety is the go-to messaging strategy for active measures warfare. Turns you into a dumb nigger ape that's willing to destroy your own society to spite the outgroup.
>I don’t care if they’re Honduran or Russian, they don’t belong here
Then why you a shill for Trump if Russians don't belong here?
>this is our home
No I think you're in your home. And I'm in mine. We aren't together. Dumbass uncultured nigger get the fuck out of my house.
>and they would disrespect us by violating our laws.
most immigrants are actually much less likely to commit crimes than the native population.
>Can you empathize with ANY of that?
Nigger every ape in the jungle can empathize with that. It's fundamentally an extension of the tribalistic ape behavior. You're acting like every ape when it sees an ape from a different tribe encroaching on it's territory.

And again nobody has ever really been for open borders. There is no immigration crisis right now. It's fabricated.

>>3773209
I didn’t vote for Trump.
You don’t know what policies I support. You’re a partisan hack with no imagination.
All of corporate bends the knee to the left. Every popular social media platform, the banks, colleges, the military. You cannot be so blind as to not see where the left has hegemony. Even the so-called “conservatives,” are really neocons that are anti-nationalist and believe in pax-Americana.
I’m not shilling for Trump. He’s done good and bad. We’re not in election-mode, we actually need to watch and pay attention to whether or not he’ll do what he said he’d do.
When I say “the race that gave me everything” I do mean the white race. They gave me EVERYTHING, a home, opportunity, life itself. I wouldn’t EXIST and it’s not just because of a genetic lottery. It’s because a majority-white country, the US, intervened on my behalf and my mother’s behalf, I’m only half white. They shouldn’t even have done so, the interventionist wars were a mistake, but it was an act of mercy for them to save my mother’s family and I’m grateful for it. I don’t flex my race on people, I’m just tired of seeing the country I was born into getting shit on by people who think that our founding premise is all about killing brown people.
I’m young and haven’t done much for any race outside of doing my best to be decent and good to the people around me. I don’t insult the civilization that gave me opportunity, or the people who maintain it.

>>3773220
I generally consume less and less media in general. They try to make the services as addictive as possible. I only come here to post sketches and occasionally blow off steam and laugh at the cringe art threads.

>>3773233
>you’re in a cult
>they want you to self-destruct
It’s like your own signature catch-phrase at this point. Either a) its the same person every time or b) its a group of people that literally talk the same.

>>3773261
>I didn’t vote for Trump.
So you responded to a comment in response to a post about "voicing support for Trump" to defend that post and attack librul boogiemen and parrot Russian propaganda, and now you're moonwalking that back? Ok. Don't care. Doesn't matter. You are what you do, anon. And you're being a shill.
>You don’t know what policies I support.
I don't know you at all you stupid faggot. You're an anonymous text generator. Literally cry more about it.
>You’re a partisan hack with no imagination.
Keep ranting about how "the left" is destroying art or whatever lol
>All of corporate bends the knee to the left.
No. You kind of fundamentally don't even understand what these things mean at this point.
>Every popular social media platform, the banks, colleges, the military. You cannot be so blind as to not see where the left has hegemony.
Honestly it's in your best interest just to either completely check out from politics, or just kill yourself. You're very stupid. It's like your understanding of "politics" starts and stops at terms of service agreements on websites that say you're not allowed to be an annoying faggot.

Like honestly your major obsession in politics is apparently that you think you're not allowed to say literally whatever you want about whoever you want without consequences? What are you fucking retarded?
>Even the so-called “conservatives,” are really neocons that are anti-nationalist and believe in pax-Americana.
nationalism is for self-destructive virgins and faggots. You're clearly both. It's crazy how much you parrot Russian propaganda to be trying to lie about how you're not "partisan" or whatever.
>I’m not shilling for Trump.
You are.
> He’s done good and bad.
You're shilling for Trump. You're one of those fake "centrists" that then parrot literal nazi talking points.
> We’re not in election-mode,
we impeachment mode now bb

>>3773261
Dude, pls stop. This is Jimmy. He is literally mentally unwell. Just look at what he writes and draws.

He is not healthy and he does not seek help. He lives on attention, stop giving it to him.

>>3773261
>we actually need to watch and pay attention to whether or not he’ll do what he said he’d do.
It's clear that you don't actually keep up with current events lol. Cohen being willing to testify that Trump ordered him to lie to congress is now at the point where articles of impeachment were filed against Nixon. We're in the endgame now. He did exactly what we thought he would, fundamentally subverted the stability of the United States for a foreign antagonist.
>When I say “the race that gave me everything” I do mean the white race.
Duh. You're so pathetic and boring that the conditions of your birth are "everything" to do. You're not going to make it.
>They gave me EVERYTHING
Not your parents? Literally all white people did? Like why make it about literally everyone that looks superficially similar to you? Lot of white people have made your life worse too. And we don't even know what you COULD have had. Only what you happened to get. What if "white people" fucked up history and you only 1/5th of what you could have got?
> I wouldn’t EXIST and it’s not just because of a genetic lottery.
Yeah you wouldn't EXIST unless literally EVERYTHING THAT HAS HAPPENED HAPPENED EXACTLY AS IT DID. Everything good and bad. All contributions.

And more to the point, how does supporting 3rd-world banana republican policies and justifying why a Russian agent has shut the government down over a symbolic panic wall, really "give back" to the whites that gave you EVERYTHING. 700,000 medical bankruptsies in the US every year. Most of them are white people. You are destroying your race lol.
>I’m only half white
ITS ALWAYS FUCKING MUDBLOODS WAVING THE FLAG FOR "WHITE PEOPLE." FUCKK YOU. Monkey ass retard shut the fuck up and quit larping as a "white person" with your hysterical monkey tribalism. Sorry that you have a fucking identity crisis but quit destroying the country YOU JUST GOT TO. You're proof that immigration is bad.

>>3773261
>a non-white white nationalist
wew

>>3773261
>>3773419
>an anti-immigration immigrant
>an anti-refugee refugee
They get here and then suddenly they're the loudest voices against anyone else coming over. I wonder if this is an observable phenonemon. I

>>3773419
No.

>>3773427
Yes, against illegal immigration.
Someone invites me into their home, and makes me part of the family. Should I close the door behind me or hold it open for the whole world to come into the house?

>>3772160
>And it only keeps getting more expensive as we keep cutting taxes

What relation could arbitrarily increasing the operating costs of companies through taxation possibly have to price reductions?

>We have the most corrupt, most expensive healthcare system in the world by a wide margin.

That's largely because of (bad) regulation, less for the lack of it. Accounting for inflation, the FDA has driven up the cost of developing a drug from 412 million dollars in the early 90s to over 2 billion today-and they are less than half as likely to approve a drug over their 12 year clinical trial period now as they were then besides-if you look at the increase in drug prices there is a strong correlation between this 500~% increase in regulatory costs to costs "at the counter". Apart from that, they prevent the importation of proven-safe drugs from overseas, generally stifle domestic competition and keep generics which cost over 80% less on average from appearing on the market (because they don't have to deal with the FDA) for many years, besides

https://www.fda.gov/aboutfda/transparency/basics/ucm194904.htm

Strategic regulation and the FDA isn't all bad mind you, I don't know anyone who doesn't like having their food being labeled properly, but you can't ignore its place in all this. Medicare and Medicaid spending on drugs stands at about $1 for every $3 total spent on healthcare in the US, so the ideas floating around about an international index, importation and pricing transparency are good ones that are a long time coming.

https://www.ajmc.com/newsroom/trump-proposes-allowing-medicare-to-base-drug-prices-on-what-other-countries-pay

As-is US pays more to research drugs than any country in the world and it's not even close, the drug companies then sell the drugs to Europe at a steep discount-with their having spent nothing on developing that drug or getting it approved-and cuck the American public with the rest of the bill.

>>3772160

>The ones we're talking about are [corporations]

Not if we're talking about a minimum wage that effects all employed persons.

>Yeah that's how inflation works. You generally want to keep up
>Literally fucking kill yourself. MUH ANECDOTES!

Let me rephrase that if you're fixated on the fact I used the word "anecdote": If you increase the minimum wage that businesses are allowed to pay their employees-especially if you couple that with tax increases- they will, with 100% certainty, raise the prices of the goods or services their businesses provide more than proportionally to those effective immediately after the ink on any such legislation has dried. In the end there will have been if anything lateral economic mobility. Some people will lose their jobs or at least have reduced hours at those jobs. All prices for all goods and services produced or performed domestically will increase markedly, the currency itself and all savings accounts will be proportionally devalued.

There has to be a more nuanced approach. Investigating and addressing the specific origins of runaway pricing on things like rent (building codes, regulations), healthcare (more regulations) and education (subsidies and loan guarantees) rather than blanket policy moves that end up exacerbating these existing problems and effectively subsidizing the organizations that started them.

>We started at the bottom and now we up here

...and we owe that in part to the protectionist trade policies that prevented our economic landscape from being dominated by established firms in Europe. Substantial tariffs on imported goods were a factor in doing business with the US for longer than they weren't-and now we've simply come full circle. I'm not going to sit here and say that tariffs are a good policy for us right now, but they're simply being used as a negotiating tool that happens to be working:

https://www.investors.com/news/economy/china-trade-deal-offer-to-trump-lifts-dow-jones/

/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3773559
>>3773654
And magically he stops responding.

Keep being sick in the head, Jimboy.

>>3773827
>magically

Now, now. If I can leave without saying anything for days at a time he can be afforded the same courtesy I feel. There are some other things I meant to touch up on as well myself but I'll probably just save it for the next time I feel like posting in this here itt thread

why is body hair so hard to draw on men/women/anyone? I've seen it done well on rare occasions, and only arm hair. I know some hirsute ppl, man. I wanna do them justice.

>>3773791
>a list of things not on this board

>What role does your politics play in your art
the fact that I need foodstamps as a freelancing artist

>>3774004
>be artist
>deliberately enter and graduate from school with tuition in high tens of thousands of dollars
>live in a state with the highest cost of living in the entire country
>deliberately enter a highly competitive, over-saturated industry open to literally anyone on the face of the planet that can speak english even if they come from a country where one USD could pay for their month's rent
>"why am I so poor"

No saying that's you but, if you're good enough to freelance you should really go out and try and find creative ways to market and sell your skills in person because it's only going to get worse for those working online and through "correspondence", you know?

>>3774004
>the fact that I need foodstamps as a freelancing artist

So your politics is you demanding that everyone else support you as you follow your dreams? Sounds about right for a delusional Leftist. This is why people make fun of social justice warriors: your idea of social justice is actually injustice.

>>3774077
I live in one of the poorest areas of the country. (its not where you'd expect, its North)
I am working on creative ways to sell my skills, but any business takes time to build. I have a lot of plans and things get better each month.
>>3774121
I was kind of just kidding, I hate that Im poor enough for foodstamps and I don't intend on being on them for much longer (It won't take long before I don't qualify)
I think about how I hope to pay it back in personal taxes eventually.

I think this country could use a lot of improvement, but I'm not saying I deserve to follow my dreams more than anyone else.

I'm kind of freelancer out of circumstance. I'm a mom and if I worked any other job 2/3 of my paycheck could be to pay for childcare, it just doesn't make any sense. Not only that, the jobs around here just cap off so soon- jobs are like that everywhere. You're right if you think I could have gone to school for something more profitable, but everyone with a "profitable" job is usually on salary and is an absolute slave. There would be no way I could take care of my son working 50-60 hours a week, if you think that I'm lying then you're just not old enough yet to see all the people around you do this.

I know that I'm crazy and banking on a lot, but I do hope to eventually publish my own work that will hopefully convince people that others should not have to work miserable awful jobs that don't pay them enough. There is an an answer to that and I think it is that Americans are too obsessed with materialism and aren't focused on things that are wholesome.

I think the politics that really influence my art is that if you're not working for someone you're worthless. If you're not productive than you're a bad person.
Truly, me being an artist is something I'm very proud of- because its actually good clean honest work. Everything I make is from my own hand, it cost next to nothing from the Earth and doesn't exploit any other human beings.

>>3774156
SAINT PAUL
A
I
N
T

P
A
U
L

Post your work mama, I'll protect you from the bullies

>>3774165
Also if I remember your situation correctly you really need to tell that degenerate (((boyfriend))) of yours to get a FUCKIN' job already. He doesn't deserve a sweet mama like u if he isn't going to even lift a finger for his own wife's son

>>3774171
Was there someone else on here with a similar situation??
He has a job, it just doesn't pay that great either. Its a pretty shitty wage slave job.

>>3773542
>Yes, against illegal immigration.
everyone is against illegal immigration. It goes without saying. What Trump did with the attempts at the muslim bans was an attempt to limit ALL travel from specific places based on religion. As Trump has shrieked over and over, when we talk about "border security" and when we're talking about stopping "immigration," it's NOT the standard, effective DEMOCRAT measures. It's big ass walls and muslim bans.
>Someone invites me into their home
What year were you "invited" and what did your family do to get the invite? What country? You think they'll care about what some previous administration did when they're kicking you out to preserve the demographic white majority? Do you think racists and white supremacists see you as "white?" Do they not teach you the "one drop rule" in the country you're going to get sent back to?
>and makes me part of the family.
If you show up and keep talking like some 3rd-world tribalist that wants American Exceptionalism to fall into the same kind of thought cancer that is destroying the place you fled from, then no you are not yet "part of the family." You're like Encino Man drawing stick figures on the TV with mustard. You're an infiltrator and subverter bringing your dangerous foreign mindset into a country in which you are clearly still a guest. When they start rounding up the immigrants and foreign invaders and kicking them out, you think your bootlicking is gonna save you?
>Should I close the door behind me or hold it open for the whole world to come into the house?
No you should leave. You are a foreign invader and you are stealing all the good white women. You are the reason I have a hard time talking to girls and spend all my time addicted to the internet. You are subverting and destroying my purity of essence.

>>3773559
>What relation could arbitrarily increasing the operating costs of companies through taxation possibly have to price reductions?
HOLY PIVOT BATMAN. There is no country in the world with more favorable policies for health insurance companies, and there is no country in the world with more expensive healthcare. Stay focused.
>That's largely because of (bad) regulation
It's called agency capture.
> Accounting for inflation, the FDA has driven up the cost of developing a drug from 412 million dollars in the early 90s to over 2 billion today
k. You're still going to be spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on not dying in your life. Something people in first world countries don't have to worry about at all. You're going to throw a house away on getting cucked by a plunderbund of existential extortionists. If you want to justify that to yourself by boohooing for drug companies that's your mind cancer.
>Strategic regulation and the FDA isn't all bad mind you
The fact that you needed to say this at all highlights how much of a hysterical retard you are.
>but you can't ignore its place in all this
YEAH BLAME THE REGULATORS! PFIZER A GOOD BOY. MERCK DINDU NUFFIN.
>Medicare and Medicaid spending on drugs stands at about $1 for every $3 total spent on healthcare in the US
Yeah because it operates within an insurance only system. Every market agent is hyper-incentivized to inflate cost by as much as possible. When you refuse to have an at-cost non-profit public option for privatized options to have to compete with, it becomes a plunderbund where everyone "competes" to charge as much as possible. There's a reason that the government spends way more per-capita on healthcare, which only covers a fraction of the population, than any other government spends per capita. And then on top of that Americans are forced to spend $300,000 each on tap of that. It's all designed to exploit you when it's either them or death. You're a shill for very bad people

>>3773654
>Not if we're talking about a minimum wage that effects all employed persons.
The fuck does this even really refer to. Just gotta respond. When we talk about "corporations," particularly in terms of economic policy, we're generally talking about entities like Wal-Mart that employ millions of people and cost the government billions of dollars. The entities that have billions of dollars to buy the agency the of the government and set policy in ways that help them.
>If you increase the minimum wage that businesses are allowed to pay their employees
No they are required to pay their employees.
>-especially if you couple that with tax increases
OH NO NOT TAX INCREASES NO ONLY CUTS. NO RAISES ONLY CUTS. OVER AND OVER ONLY CUTS NO RAISES THO ONLY CUTS.
>they will, with 100% certainty, raise the prices of the goods or services
Yeah like when you tax them with tariffs. Or force Mexican laborers to unionize so they'll be more "competitive" with people that get paid twice as much.

It's hilarious how much you talk about how terrified you are of cost inflation when that's literally all you shill for.
>hey we could help hundreds of millions of people and put more money circulating into local, national, and international economies; as well as increasing savings and decreasing debt and creating a better quality of life for Americans
OH NO WHAT IF COST OF LIVING GOES UP!
>Hey we can hysterically tax our own companies for utilizing cheap foreign labor until they leave and guarantee that cost of living goes up and quality of life goes down and international relationships get sabotaged and eventually the economy tanks
HEY WE ALL NEED TO MAKE SACRIFICES
>In the end there will have been if anything lateral economic mobility
If you want economic mobility leave America. Nobody else has to spend a house a healthcare.
>there has to be a more nuanced approach.
See: rest of world for a good start.

Bump

next level shitposting itt.

>>3761383
My art is completely apolitical because I use it to escape. The only thing that spills through is my hatred for humanity

>>3773542
>>3774206
>>3773281
I do want to note since this thread wont get taken off life support that I fill bad about being so harsh in some of these memes. Like it's just real confounding to see how often the people trying to shill for and normalize shit like white nationalism and extreme immigration policy and "retaliatory" economic policy:
A: Aren't "white." Being "half-white" in American cultural racial tradition makes you 0% "white." Any amount of mud in the water makes the water muddy. When you shill for things like "white nationalism," and you jump through all these hoops to justify and supporting change policy to preserve a "white" ethnostate, you're actively advocating for your eventual destruction or removal. You're empowering people that hate you. The people you're getting your ego feels from want you to stop existing entirely and are working towards enacting policies to make that happen.
B: Are fucking immigrants. Like how the fuck much do you hate yourself or your family or your "homeland" that you think the opportunities that got you here need to be taken away from the everyone else? Are you trying to save the country from getting infected by more people like you or something? We "opened the door" for you and now you're hammering the windows shut and using the couch to barricade the door. Chill the fuck out.
C: Are generally most likely to be personally fucked by "retaliatory" economic policy. Cutting trillions in corporate taxes and taxing American manufacturers with tariffs to "compete with China" leads to local and state governments seeking out revenue through other means, like tolls and sales taxes and ticket quotas and administration fees and expenses and less access to shittier public services. All things that make life harder and more expensive and frustrating for poor and middle class Americans. You're sacrificing our quality of life to support an ideology that wants you to kill yourself. Dont do that maybe.

>>3778284
no role whatsover

>>3778309
No role in what? You support cutting taxes for Exxon and deregulating banks and health insurance companies because of a picture of some scary brown people and a bunch of gook gibberish writing?

Not asking this in a condescending way, actually just interested: how young are you? It's interesting to see how all the kids that spent their young childhood during the height of the terror war are able to really interpret or reflect on reality without reflexively whatabouting to fear and loathing.

Like we're talking about policy that is going to sabotage and harm hundreds of millions of Americans alive today, with billions more going forward. What in the fuck do a dozen brown assholes have to do with any of that?

Like did you just never get to experience what life was like before everyone was conditioned to use irrational reactionary fear to justify why they support shitty things?

idk I don't really understand how you live with yourself tbphwyf. Why don't you feel like a hysterical coward? Why don't you feel embarrassed?

Like when you find yourself unironically justifying what you support by saying that you're ascared of boogiemen propped up by propagandists, how come you don't feel a bit goofy about yourself? Did you just grow up in an environment where you never figured out that being emotionally reactive and making self-destructive decisions out of fear or spite isn't the best way to navigate the world?

Considering how much you poindexters hate girls you sure think like the worst of them.

>>3778362
>No role in what? You support cutting taxes for Exxon and deregulating banks and health insurance companies because of a picture of some scary brown people and a bunch of gook gibberish writing?

I'm the guy you've been arguing with most of this time and just for the record I haven't said anything about jews or the white race or anything like that on the off chance you've been conflating some of the others' posts with mine.

>I feel bad about being so harsh in some of these memes

I appreciate the sentiment but no worries bubbi, I don't expect different on 4chan. I'm sorry for bringing your dad up earlier even though I didn't mean to be rude about it necessarily-even if I was just trying to relate your situation to what I was talking about it was still kind of a low blow in hindsight (even if you've been laying into me pretty hard this whole time, there are boundaries a nigga shouldn't cross).

I will try and address my interpretation of your points soon, the main ones being taxes, regulations and healthcare that costs as much as a house etc. but probably not tonight because I'm too busy shitting my pants lmoa.