/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3762610
youll just be good at that one thing. you wont be mastering anything.

that actually works since you learn how to simplify and stylize shapes etc but you also need to have a good foundation of your own if you wanna get serious

Yes, you can start just by copying, and continue copying but at the same time paying attention and observing.

>>3762613
I don't mind not being a master, at least for now. I just want to improve a little to begin with

>>3762615
>>3762618
Cool, thanks.

You have to copy sketches first and learn the general process and techniques, finished work hides the process. Once you know how something is built, you can copy.

>>3762624

>>3762610
or you can just learn it from the teaching source
and like 10 time faster without creating bad habit with false understanding of thing

>>3762624
>extreme 3/4 view
>far eye touching the centerline
>near eye centered on the turning edge of the side plane
Construction ruined me, I can never look at anime and not be triggered now.
It’s still appealing to me, but I can’t fucking stand how nonsensical it is.

>>3762634
You have to think of the centerline as the bridge of a nose and never assume that anything adheres to the usual rules of construction. Moe cannot exist in the 3d form. Not to mention that centerline clearly isn't the centerline.

>>3762638
No, I know anime usually implies an extremely concave brow-nose region and an extremely convex muzzle with young/moe characters so the top part of the centerline just ahead of the skull in the pic, it’s mostly the near eye’s placement that bothers me.
Not in the sense that it ruins the image, in the sense that I keep thinking it’s wrong when I try to draw it. I’m just really struggling with trying to figure out how to make big eyes work with some sort of anatomy so it reinforces the ball in a socket structure of the eye, but I can’t fucking do it, it keeps looking like shit.
Anime just does the lens on top of a flat plane thing at best with the eye running off the edge, and western big eyes I’ve found are either Mickey Mouse tier cartooning or more implied than actually present and it’s driving me insane.

>>3762655
Just don't think about it. Accept the non euclidean geometry. I find doing kabbalah helps with visualizing extradimensional cuteness.

>>3762655
>he doesnt know how to use construction
not surprised from a brainlet

cute boys

>>3762634
>>3762679
>>3762655
Anime does sometimes subtly break geometric rules. But most of the time, including that pic, have very cohesive construction.

>near eye centered on the turning edge of the side plane
Not sure what you mean by this. I think you're just misjudging where the front plane actually ends. Anime faces tend to have much wider front planes

>I’m just really struggling with trying to figure out how to make big eyes work with some sort of anatomy so it reinforces the ball in a socket structure of the eye
It is tricky to see it, since they're usually not rendered out. But the geometry of the socket structure is still there.

>with the eye running off the edge
Not sure what you mean by this either

>>3762610
Maybe?
But you need to practice fundies too if you want to fully understand what you're copying

Similar to programming, you can't just keep copying codes forever without understanding what each line of code or method do.

>>3762682
Please post your construction and show me how to do what I’m talking about.

>>3762629
>>3762629
shota feet <3

>>3762610
yes

>>3762610
copying and tracing are both good, but make sure to get some memory and reference drawing too in your schedule

the amount of each should vary by what you feel like doing at any moment or what you feel could be more useful

as you will learn you will do less tracing and copying, and more from memory, and get back to copying when getting in a new subject

>>3762698
Thanks for that pic.
What I mean is that if you compare the heads in your pic where the far eye touches the corner of the head (ie no socket is visible) the near eye is much closer to the centerline/far edge.
The turning edge of the side plane is right on the center of the ball in 3/4 view, and at that angle the eye never obstructs the bone structure of the far edge. In the pic the eye is touching the far edge of the head, making the angle more extreme than 3/4, yet the near eye is centered on the turning edge of the side plane, accentuated by both the brow and eye peak being directly on the edge, which is something that happens with angles of less than 3/4. This together makes it seem like either the near eye is on the side of the head or the front plane is wider than the back of the skull.
They eyes are also flat symbols drawn on a flat plane, but that’s another matter.

Do you have any examples or artists that draw very solid structure/forms like in your pic?
I’m not arguing anime is not grounded in construction on the whole, I just have a very difficult time finding good examples of appealing big, constructed eyes in a skull to study of both anime and western variety.

>>3762698
nice

>>3762610
The problem is that if you want to go from "can cobble together scripts that maybe sorta do what I want if I'm lucky enough to find an answer on stackoverflow that fits" to "can design systems that don't suck ass" you can't just keep copying people.
You have to start experimenting and making creative decisions on your own, then seeing how those decisions eventually come to bite you in the ass, and learn from your mistakes.
It's about building intuition for choosing the designs and solutions that will work and pose the least amount of problems.
This requires more than your surface-level knowledge. It requires that you expand your knowledge both in depth and breadth, and go through a lot of iterations of the trial and error phase I mentioned earlier.
t. professional programmer / software architect

Of course the analogy might still work for art but I'm not skilled enough to know yet.

>>3762740
>What I mean is that if you compare the heads in your pic where the far eye touches the corner of the head (ie no socket is visible) the near eye is much closer to the centerline/far edge.
I don't really get it. Are you saying that the eyes are closer together in my previous pic? If so, that's just a matter of proportions.

>The turning edge of the side plane is right on the center of the ball in 3/4 view, and at that angle the eye never obstructs the bone structure of the far edge. In the pic the eye is touching the far edge of the head, making the angle more extreme than 3/4
There's no rules determining whether or not the eyeball crosses the contour in a 3/4 view of an anime head. It's just a matter of the structure and geometry of the model the artist is employing. You have to not think of this as just a real human head translated 1:1 into an anime, but as a model/toy/figurine that you can hold in your hand.

>yet the near eye is centered on the turning edge of the side plane, accentuated by both the brow and eye peak being directly on the edge
I think you're misjudging where the turning edge is.

>They eyes are also flat symbols drawn on a flat plane, but that’s another matter.
I guess that's just a matter of how you define symbol drawing. But to me, they're not just symbol drawing. They have real geometry that respects perspective (most of the time..). Again, you have to think of this like it's a figurine.

>the front plane is wider than the back of the skull.
This is actually kind of the case most of the time. If you try to observe front views of anime heads, the outer corner of the eyes (which is right next to the turning edge of the head) tend to almost touch side contours. While in a real front view of a human head, there's usually a decent amount of space between the outer corner of the eyes and the side contours, because of how the side planes are angled and structured.

>>3762768
>Do you have any examples or artists that draw very solid structure/forms like in your pic?
Most good anime artists should have solid forms, so there shouldn't be any short of supply to study from. One of my personal favorites is Hamada Yoshikazu.

Yes this is a very good practice, but you obviously have to do other things too, esp. drawing from life and learning your anatomy and perspective.

>>3762610
sure it's called master studies. but you have to choose your masters well. also, you have to look at their unfinished works, or progress videos if they're living, to truly understand the process. it's a visual language and you don't want to just copy end results which will limit you, but their decision making processes and why they put paint in a place to get certain effects.

>>3762610
I think we had this thread already.
Also,
>>3762698
>>3762768
I've said this shit so many times. One of the best examples I know is pic related. Or literally look at any anime animator's keyframes.
Just break the rules when convenient, rest is 3D.