/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

soon

>known tracer makes it
Really makes you think

Wake me up when he draws something different.

anyone ever notice how fucking huge he makes the ears on these chicks? it freaks me the hell out

>>3757267

>>3757278
>sycra in the trash
Gets me everytime

>>3757262
>Kr0nprinz finally made it!
He already made it in comiket 2014 Anon. Just sayin'

It actually looks good.
Better than most of Japanese kawaii uguu moeshit animes.

how long till someone finds the picture he traced

>>3757321
imagine if he has traced and stole the main char from somewhere else which is probably true

>>3757262
damn that movie's gonna flop hard if they can't even do minimal research about the artist

>>3757329

>>3757321
>>3757325
someone post proper anime waifu sameface chart

>>3757328
>minimal research about the artist
Imagine being this salty.

>>3757339

>>3757329
>>3757339
>>3757332
>>3757340

why are all foreigners fucking tracers

>>3757341
???

>>3757278
I'm trying to figure out what this is missing... but no, it's perfect.

>>3757332
Not to defend him but again get your shit right, that picture is not tracing. As much as you would be tracing reality if you draw anything from a reference real life or photo. If you take a photo digitall and you draw over it in a digital software that is tracing, if you take a transparent paper put it over a photograph and draw over it that is tracing.

Drawing in a sketchbook from a photograph is not tracing. By that logic you can call Loomis and Vilppu or all art meme people tracers.

>>3757348
merc_wip? Steve Huston? Proko? Watts?

>>3757341
Because they need to emulate the glorious nippon art they must copy every nippon art over 1000 times before they can start to grasp its advanced techniques.

>>3757349
Loomis doesnt trace he is constructing from geometry primitives

huge difference

>>3757353
better go get copying more glorious nippon art rather than browsing /ic/

>>3757359
Kr0n doesn't trace too desu. But wrong-siders don't cares.
>inb4 proofs
videos. though old link in archive is dead

>>3757359
Looms himself also drew from real life and photo references too. I mean it is directly shown in examples in his books, one need to do that to be able drawn at reasonable speeds.

>>3757341
chinks

>>3757349
The word "tracing" is just a meme word equivalent to faggot that is used for more things than the intended meaning of the word. People that goes on long posts to explain that "Illya isn't a tracer" missed the real point.
At the end of the day, the matter is that he's heavily copying then acts like he did it from scratch.

>>3757370
>copyrighted angle
>copyrighted pose

>>3757339
yes minimal research about the artist. What's your point?

>>3757362
>>3757329
phew lad

>>3757262
YIKES

>>3757378
I don't think you know what tracing means,

>>3757370
The original looks terrible desu.

>>3757375
>What's your point?
Your post was salty. Like salt.

>>3757383
Probably copy from photo.

so tell me /ic/ why aren't you tracing anime artwork and selling it for a killing?

>>3757390
>anime artwork

>>3757329

>>3757390

Because I have a semblance of pride

>>3757349
Except that sketch is something he uploaded after he got caught. Iirc he said it was his "cafe sketch".

>>3757400
>photo reference in list
dumb crab

>working with him

>>3757408
>Even the backgrounds are copied in some of them
I'm sure you love his """studies""" of your anime waifus too.

>using refs is now tracing
jesus christ

>>3757262
>>3757267
Who gives a fuck. As long as he produces original art for the said movie, it's pretty fucking good.

>>3757413
Always makes me kek

>>3757437
> he's not tracing! Just copying 95% of the reference!

Also you bunch of clueless fags, the correct term is "swiping". This guy doesn't trace, he swipes. He copies other art and sells it as his own

Kuvshinov's sameface is extremely pretty, I'll give him that.

>>3757262
>giving him work after his manga

Where is Jimbo? As I understand he doesn't work in Ubisoft anymore.
>dat 02
muh dick

>>3757446

Don't be salty Jace :3

>>3757385
just stating obvious facts. Also check your taste buds faggot

>>3757390
>now everyone will report him and his shop will get taken down since fanart is not allowed on any of those platforms

ITT salty ngmi crabs

>>3757381
copying, tracing, whatever you want to call it, he didn't come up with any of the stuff himself, but is making money with it. More importantly why don't you take that rancid dick out of your mouth? You gotta be fucking bored chewing it for years without your false senpai noticing you

>>3757460
>just stating obvious facts
NGNL artist is tracer. He even officially apologized for tracing. That's why your original post makes no sense and just salt.

>>3757465
>copying, tracing, whatever you want to call it, he didn't come up with any of the stuff himself, but is making money with it.
Drawing fanart for money is illegal too.
And selling prints is illegal too.
>More importantly why don't you take that rancid dick out of your mouth?
Are you 14 years old?

>>3757473
>Are you 14 years old?
no but im a girl :3

This guy is basically the Greg Land of anime

>>3757477
show me ur pusy

>>3757483

>>3757482

>>3757452
i want zero 2 to step all over my cock

>>3757277
Anon that's a pretty regular ear size. Do you have really tiny ears?

I don't want to argue in bad faith or anything like that i just want to explore the topic and ideas.

It seems to me that the whole discussion about tracing is kind of like a purity test, i completely agree that simply copying other people's art for money is bad.
But can't tracing be used as a tool, not only as a tool for improvement but for doing an original artwork? For example if someone really wants to replicate a scene from an anime but with different render / shading / style etc like in
post related >>3757400
I understand that you can definetly call out someone on lack of skill to build a character pose himself, but would you guys say its wrong to think that end result matters more than tools used to create it?
I just can't help but notice how many things especially in popculture like popular and commercial art, music, movies, even books use the same styles, sounds, and scenes.
But as long as the end result is doing what it was suposed to do and people like it and there is someone that wants to pay for it. Is it really that bad?

>>3757582
do you have gigantic circular ears? they should look like pic related

>>3757278
First time I genuinely laughed at a Wojak perfect

I can't care less.

>>3757600
I think Asians have bigger ears than Euros. And he's a weeaboo, so.

>>3757596
nah tracing definitely has its use

people in this thread are just conflating the terms tracing/copying/stealing etc as a catch all for muh art theft

>>3757623
He isn't even apologizing lmao

ya'll is some salty haters. Good for him.
>>3757277
Looks fine to me. Poast yurz fgt.
>>3757332
That one's actually bad though.
>>3757456
Unironically good.
>>3757343
>using references is bad

>all those words of love and encouragement in the comments of youtube trailer
Any good movies/books/TV/vidya/manga/animu where villain wins and everybody love him?

>anon grinds fundies
>studies methods of Ruan Jia, KJG
>classical paintings up the ass
>"d-don't grind stylization, fags"
>hours everyday, constantly comparing improvement from years prior
>"Someday I'll make it" while balancing work hours, drawing overnight for days on end
>one-upped by russian tracer in anime industry

>>3757695
in terms of money?

>>3757623
This one always rustles my jimmies. Not only is he hypocritical, he is so fucking smug and demeaning.

>>3757596
making fanart is fine, even tracing is fine to an extent, but this faggot is making 13k a month exclusively tracing, and thats not including his merch sales or deals with anime studios.

>>3758110
>exclusively tracing
I don't think he trace now. His tracing scandal is from 2015 or 2016

>retards obsessing over some popular artist instead of drawing
this board is pathetic

>>3758110
also why are you obsessed about some artist money but not about corrupted businessman who make millions?

>>3757262
He needs to vary his subject matter besides "cute anime girl with pretty eyes" but besided that, I don't hate the guy. I don't follow him because his content is just so samey, there's no point.
>character designer
Not as big a deal as people think. It's not like he'll be a key animator and will have to draw his characters repeatedly. He'll just make the characters with his signature style and the animators will take over from there. His tracing crutch issue will fortunately be a moot point.

>>3758124
Because this is an art related place.

>>3757623
unironically based as fuck

>>3758110
So how does that work? its fine up untill certain threshold of money per month and then it becomes not fine? If he was making less money would you be fine with whatever tools he uses to create his art?
>exclusively tracing
That makes it sound like straight up plagiarism doesn't it? Wouldn't you agree that there is some ammount of effort or quality that person puts into an art piece that makes it "theirs" even if it started as a combination of your sketch and tracing?
And im not even defending any particular artist, just curious about opinions.

>>3757527
HNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGG

>>3757669
refrences were used when some anon posted slam dunk as an example of copying photos of basketball players
hunterxhunter is just traced here you cant see any real modification

>>3757262
The one thing I like about him is that he likes blunt bangs.

>/ic/ crabs loosing their minds cause someone is making it

>>3758199
i dont argue that his work takes skill, he knows how to make an appealing image, and can render well. but thats really the extent of his abilities. he cant make a figure or pose or background without a photo to copy. if you want proof for that just look at his manga he made that i cant find anywhere. the whole thing is photobashed, like look at the backgrounds lmao
>its fine up untill certain threshold of money per month and then it becomes not fine?
idc about pedantic questions like that, just the fact that there are great illustrators struggling to get by while this guys making bank pisses me off.

>>3758424
AAAAAAAH this looks so fucking bad WOW
you could probably ask in the /beg/ thread and they'd give you a better looking backgrounds holy shit how fucking lazy can you get, people paid for that?? Really?

>>3758424
That background
Looks like a fucking picture with a filter

>>3758435
>>3758449
Jesus christ you guys are insufferable.
No one likes drawing backgrounds. Just look at bleach, one of the most popular manga and it's riddled with white empty backgrounds.

>>3758542
>No one likes drawing backgrounds
I like it
Also, if it's your job, you got to do it just the same
How is "I don't like it" any excuse to not do your fucking job
This is the people that will inherit the earth?
Fucking kids

>>3758339
>/ic/ crabs loosing their minds cause someone is making it

Never take /ic/ seriously

>>3757403
money>>>>>pride anon

>>3758578
pride >>>>> homelessness

>>3758548
>I like it therefore everyone should do it
Holy fuck you're a sad individual. His job isn't to make fucking backgrounds, it's to tell a story. You wouldn't fucking judge a comic by its backgrounds you dunce

>>3758580
Yeah no shit, and if you're too stupid to draw anime waifus cause muh pride and you go homeless than whose fault is that?

>>3758581
You would?
Are you telling me that a manga with well drawn characters AND background is not better than manga with JUST well drawn characters?

>>3758199
An artist like that will never have as much respect as someone like Kim Jung Gi.
It's fine I guess, but I just can't relate to that attitude. I hate myself already, if I was doing something I deem unworthy I would hate myself even more.

>>3758590
>>3758581
It depends entirely on the needs of the story, panel, composition and any number of contextual elements. That said, the mentality of "fuck backgrounds" wouldn't work for a manga where the setting is even remotely important.

>tracing is not acceptable
meanwhile in the real world of professionals, people have been doing that for decades.

literally google matte painters in hollywood, or photobashers in concept art.

kys retards.

>>3758661
Whats he tracing?
x does y, therefore its ok - interesting reasoning.

>>3758590
Yes, that can very much be true. Some really well-drawn manga out there are canned just because its story isn't up to par.
>>3758648
I have never said "fuck bacgrounds" and I don't think that they are entirely useless. The backgrounds in illya's are totally fine and good enough for what they do. His problems were elsewhere, not the fucking backgrounds. Also, my beef with the anon was him criticizing his backgrounds as if they were all that mattered. Manga artist's are already known to skimp out on the background by using photos and filters, and let's be honest, why wouldn't you? Why waste time on something that isn't as important as your actual visual storytelling. There are many good manga out there with bad art, and they work just fine because it's not about the art ffs. As long as it's passable and conveys what it's supposed to, that's what's most important. Don't fucking talk and criticize shit you don't know anything about.

>>3758670
>tracing is illegal in the art world
No, tracing is not illegal, so is not wrong to use it.

Grid method is basically tracing a live model.
photorealism rellies on tracing.

camera obscura, projections.
Caravaggio was a know tracer back then.

get over it.

>>3758703
Why are you bringing up legality, your argument so far is that because someone else has done something its ok for others too, that shit should stop by age 5. Argue the case for tracing without using other people as if that inherently makes it acceptable. What does it allow for? Lower bar of entry? High accuracy, assuming its important to the task at hand (You could argue that the majority of art is stylized to a degree where you need knowledge not acquired from tracing). Assuming tracing is the fastest method why aren't the majority of asian animation studios switching to rotoscoping or applying filters to photos(key word here is majority) - I'll offer a suggestion that it could be that the better you get the faster you get, so much so that its faster to sketch than it is to find reference to trace.
>>3758687
>Manga artists are known to skimp out
Some, not all. Some are also known for their exceptional draftsmanship which also speeds up the process.
>Why wouldn't you
Its as if you're only looking at this from one side with a "good enough" attitude. If its acceptable to use crutches to elevate your mediocrity to a standard of acceptability is that where you should plateau? What of those that have skill, as you say its a visual medium and your "visual storytelling" is whats important. What is visual storytelling if not the visuals, is the draft for Hunter x Hunter of equal value to the volume version to you? When something hits your arbitrary cut off for good enough is there nothing gained from improving the art? If not what is lost by doing so? Do you consider it an issue of dimishing returns, as you're so concerned with "wasting time"? If tracing and using photos are a valid method of having a faster turn around on manga production then the same is also true for the artist improving. Not everyone has to rest on their laurels and stagnate once they've made it.
I don't see why anyone would try to justify tracing or taking shortcuts, they are what they are

>>3758750
faggot OP only needs to make nice illustrations, he doesn't need to draw from imagination from what I can gather.

Not all artists need to know how to draw from imagination, faglord.

Ilustrators don't need to draw from imagination.

>>3758752
Evidently. Who am I to question someones happiness.
It is however interesting to question the alternatives, could someone be happier knowing more? Being better? This was never a question of need.

So is the movie gonna be good or is it gonna suck?

>>3757262
Is no one going to say anything about how far back her ear is?

>>3758788
that's pretty normal.

>>3757321
i dont think Japanese people are that dumb. They must already have his traced pictures collage floating around in 2ch/2chan/whatever their site is called.

>>3758750
I bet you have never tried making a comic in your life. You don't know how painful it actually is and just keeps spewing things out while only looking on what's on the surface. It is true that some artist's spend a ridiculous amount of time on every little detail, just like the pic you posted.
Now, let me tell you about that pic you just posted. It looks nice, yes. But while it looks nice, this is a manga, not a single illustration. You're here for the story, not the fucking background. Unless relevant to the story, you wouldn't even care if there were 3 houses far off in that background instead of 10 or 15. You turn to this page, you look at it for 10 seconds, maybe 20, you read the dialogue, and then you turn the page, and I can assure you that you would wouldn't have noticed all the fucking details in that background in that timeframe. A.K.A wasted fucking work. Work that you could have used to pump out another page. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you should necessarily settle for mediocrity. What I'm saying is that the laws of manga and comics are fucking different from your classical one piece illustration. It's not about the art as much as it is about the story and delivery!! You're not using 'crutches' by skimping out on things that shouldn't be prioritized as much, and you shouldn't get criticized for it either! If you really want to prove yourself and show your skill then be my guest and do that, but that shouldn't be made an expectation of everyone making a manga.

>>3758812
Seems like you'd rather be a writer.
You're reading a manga for the visual storytelling, not just the story.
Why do you think I had that image to hand if I didn't appreciate it enough for what it is as an image. Do you think that people like me are the exception when it comes appreciating manga for the art? How do you prove your argument that the art (past a certain point) doesn't matter anymore? Do you look at sales and measure success that way? How do you seperate the quality of the story, the magazine its in, the era it was released in from the quality of the art?
You're trying to be reductive about the reality of how manga is consumed, ignoring that people obviously buy volumes. Which with your view would be a waste of money if they've read it once, why would they want to have it, it's not as if they'll read it multiple times.
Most of the best selling manga of all time go against your argument. Infact most have beautiful and intricate backgrounds when the story requires it because as you say, its the visual storytelling thats important.
>It's not about the art as much as it is about the story and delivery
The art is core to the delivery, its a visual medium and there are successful manga that have no words, Gon being a great example.
I'm not implying that all panels need backgrounds, in the Manben episode with Akiko Higashimura she comments that people are drawing too many backgrounds lately and they discuss the topic of imagination and when a background is needed. As I initially stated it all depends on the needs of the story and context at the time, however should a background be needed and if its integral to the story you commit to it, people will in turn appreciate it. Be it the ringing of the bell in the Golden City in One Piece, Falconia in Berserk, Sasuke returning to the village of the Leaf, the reveal of the Dark Continent in HxH, all of these images are integral to their story and only benefit from being of greater quality.

>>3758750
The towers seem to be so similar to towers in our villages.
Each family has it's own family tower to defend in case of an attack with weapons and armor and shit, a lot of them date hundreds of years back. Some Svans claim hey have magical properties.

>>3758750

Absolutely majority of mangaka trace photos. Sorry for breaking it to you. Except for characters, tracing is literally the norm of manga making.

>>3758854
Something is normal therefore it is ok? It's not exactly news, even artists as good as Takehiko Inoue have been noted on their tracing and referencing. Something doesn't add up with your claim that the majority do it as for that to be true the majority of things would be mostly featuring elements that could be traced.
"Most" of the top selling manga are shounen or shoujo, most are fantasy/battle or romance based, most battle/fantasy don't exist in the same world we do, most romance stories use more abstract backgrounds to depict emotional states rather than literal. Assuming they do trace, how often is it happening?
Stop trying to make excuses for yourself so you don't have to work as hard or practice as much.

>>3758852
Awesome, in my ignorance I end up posting an image that is most likely heavily inspired by something. Thats a nice cultural thing to know about though, thanks. Anything else similar worth reading into?

>>3758843
You're putting words in my mouth anon. You're talking as if I've disregarded backgrounds all together, which I do not. Also, you seem to be having a misconception about backgrounds in manga. Backgrounds are such a pain to draw and take a lot of time. In fact, it's so much of a pain to draw that most mangakas have their assistant doing it for them. In manga you have several panels per page, and depending on the shot, you'd in worst case have to draw a background in all of them. This is time-consuming and most often unecessary. Just look at bleach. In it's later parts most of the background was almost non-existent, and this did not take away from the story at all. I'm not even sure what your argument is about buying volumes. When reading it twice or thrice, they'll still only spend a few seconds on each page, what is even your point.

>>3758859
The ends justify the means anon. You're trying to tell a story via a visual medium, not sell a fucking background. If the delivery is as good as without a highly detailed background then there's no point further wasting time on them. We humans have limited time anon, you'd better use it more wisely. Most would rather have a finished work they can put out there than still be fiddling with stupid backgrounds. No one is saying this or that is okay. Everything is a tool and should be treated as such. Just as drawing digitally is faster than drawing traditionally doesn't mean that it is more fake and not okay. The sooner you realize this, the faster you'll crawl out of the ngmi bucket.

>>3758862
I don't know man, maybe there are other towers like that in mountain regions, it might be an intuitive thing, but the shape felt very very familiar.
These things are from country off Georgia, specifically svan region on the Caucasus mountain range.
We also had to learn how to build on mountains in general so cities have this big strange suicidal big buildings on cliffs and shit.

>>3758868
If you want cool strange mountain cities, look up Georgia and countries in this region.

>>3758869
And some old fort cities built inside of the mountain, it dates to 12th century I think.
Don't know how they made it, walls look like they were chiseled by fucking spoons lol, but it's pretty big inside, even has like a pool area for the Queen.

>>3758865
Seems you've ignored what I said as I explicity stated that it entirely depends on the needs of the story and panel. Your stance in relation to the image in >>3758750 was that it was redundant detail better spent elsewhere or invested in a new page to which I offered up reasons why I don't consider that to be true, based on a lot of succesful manga and their iconic moments and in your own words that its about visual storytelling.
As for using assistants, thats also largely in part due to the deadline in general as there are also mangaka with monthly serializations that don't use them and draw backgrounds all the same.
So far your ONLY example featuring this minimal aesthetic is Bleach, something you could argue to be a stylistic choice more so than a workload one and you seem to be intentionally ignoring the fact i've said multiple times that the need for a background depends on the story. It's also amusing to me that you bring up the later parts of Bleach when it was at its lowest in the Jump rankings and on its way to being canceled. This could be attributed to the story being mediocre and having ran its course or mediocre art, who knows.
>they'll still only spend a few seconds on each page
Citation needed. Probably true, pointless to bring up as everyone is different. We can't use that as a metric in working out whether or not the quality of art in a manga has an impact on sales. So again I'll refer you to the fact that the MAJORITY of best selling (20million+) go against your view so perhaps some people do value it more than you.
>>3758867
Selling the background and environment might be important to the story? Most mangaka more successful than you or I DO "waste time on them". Our time is limited so maybe, just fucking maybe, they're spending it doing it what they want while we sit here posting garbage. Everything is a tool (EXCEPT DETAILED BACKGROUNDS).
>>3758868
Thanks!

>>3758882
Bleach started with good backgrounds and the author got more and more lazy with them as it went.
Honestly Bleach was pretty lazy in its later arcs, to me it's a real wonder it wasn't axed earlier.

>>3757262

>>3758542
>>3758581
>n-no one likes it
then fucking hire someone to do it instead of jacking off
it's not an excuse to produce something half as shit and lazy as THAT

>>3757669
>being this delusional
get that dick out of your ass faggot

>>3758118
lol what have you seen his recent "commercial" stuff that he probably hasn't uploaded on any of his own social media

it's literally copy pasted elements and photobashes from different works. If anything the success made him more bold and lazy

>>3758424
>>3758542
you don't read much manga do you?

>>3758703
ask any big nip illustrator, tracing and copying someone else's concept is one of the most disrespectful things an artist can do. Basically you've lost all your worth and name as an artist and nobody wants to associate with you, or rather they shun you in the scene since everyone knows everyone.

>>3757337
anon these designs faces looks pretty different from one another.

>>3757262
still drawing those weird robot eyes I see

>>3758750
Man, Kuutei Dragon is amazing.

>>3758975
Indeed it is, somewhat relatedly everything by Kui Ryoko is amazing. Nina and The Immortal are also wonderful visually.

>>3758959
me and the other guy you linked have opposite opinions,,

>>3758975
Woah, I tend to skip mangas with bad backgrounds. This I'm gonna read for sure.

stop tracing photos for backgrounds!

>>3758424
His panelling and composition are also shite.

>>3757676
Invincible and Watchmen

>>3759440
>Invisibles and Watchman
A person of patrician taste I see.

>>3759245
Most of the best mangaka and anime background artists use photographs as a base for backgrounds, Inoue included. It saves time and makes the end product look better so what's the problem.

>>3759634
I guess the obvious sarcasm was entirely lost on you.
>Most of the best mangaka
In the same way you've not read the thread it seems you've also read fuck all manga, go through the list of best selling authors and you'll see that "most" don't trace or have a setting that can utilize photos.

>>3758865
Talking about Bleach, it feels like you forgot to mention how Kubo basically stopped giving a shit at that point.

>>3759245
I thought Inoue doesn't trace background? Or are you being sarcastic

>>3757403
Whatever you say, man

>>3757278
top kek

>>3757370
the fuck is this is not even the same pose

>>3757349
>Not to defend him but again get your shit right, that picture is not tracing.
Yeah, except he uploaded it with a comment that it was a life drawing he randomly did while sitting in a cafe in tokyo and the girl just happened to sit next to him.

>>3759634
>digital animation workshop in syria
>2008
Now that worked out just fine.
Can we blame shinkai for ISIS?

>>3757262
Man the characters look like fucking shit

Yet another ""study"" that is just described as a fanart.

>>3762343
Fanarts arent original by definition and devart doesnt allow to monetize them so who the fuck cares.

Actuslly taking some famous off art and giving it a facilift with better technique is what Kronpenis is known for and the source is so famous you cant even call it stealig.

>>3762370
Bullshit from start to end. Only crappy beginners and colorists that mentions it in the description that it's not original do that.

> with better technique
It's a lazy sketch version of the original, the face is the only part that could be considered better (and it's hardly a difference, like something you'd make with liquify), everything else is much worse.

> and the source is so famous you cant even call it stealig.
Show the right pic to anyone and 99% wouldn't know it's copied from a random volume of last order.

>>3762376
Dude most if "his" works are the literal covers or the games/anime or the most popular screenshots.

He never had the pretence that his fanart is original and everybody always knew he is just rendering over the official art.

>>3762380
It's bullshit and you know it. Most people thinks what he does is original and he sure as hell never mentions that it's not original like any colorist would.