/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3740170
Tracing is tracing. Using reference is using reference.

Anyone got that traced brick throwing lady image?

>>3740170
kek

>>3740172
So you don't consider it "cheating" as long as the drawing canvas (digital or paper) isn't directly overlaid over other material?

>>3740180
In this masterpiece

>>3740194
Cheating? Art isn't a competition, it's a fucking hobby with benefits.

>>3740217
>what is plagiarism

>>3740194
>>3740219
Literally WHO fucking cares
If it's a good drawing no one is going to be suspicious about it

>>3740232

It's just autism. All that matters in a drawing is the final result, nobody gives a shit about the way you did it.
If you make a drawing by holding a pencil with your mouth, you might feel like you've done such a great job, but the final result will be the fucking same.

>>3740195
Nothing wrong with this. No rules, only results.

comic book work is basically slave labor with a dead line.
I feel like pro artists eventually get to a point where they know certain things by muscle memory.
Also whats the difference between using a model in real life and using some stock photo to rip off.


PS. buy pic related and you wont have to trace shit

>>3740292
Perspective differences. Its good to study from real life

>>3740170
wen you copy the reference line for line
you might as well of just traced

>>3740170
When you start adapting your work to the reference you're using, it starts to be bad
Reference should always serve your vision, if you have the perfect photo reference and you trace it you're doing a good job

>>3740195
This is why I vowed to not become a reference cuck. Just draw from your mental library. No one even likes this uncanny, pop art comic style anyways. Having some style in this case wouldn't hurt at all. Land really fucked himself, artistic-wise. He's limited to his references and more often than not, people will always be able to trace back to the original.

>>3740195
>iron man’s helmet from dead front on a comic cover looks like iron man’s helmet from dead front in the movie
>must be traced
???

Never ever look anything when you draw. Always draw from imagination. Or you will become a mindless copy machine.

>retards are actually using their eyes to draw instead of their mind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9fIt7n8MMQ
ngmi

>>3740320
Same could be said of hyperrealism or ultrarealism or whatever the fuck. This is the point where so many artists get to and they either steer into it, or they break away into abstractism, or expressionism or cubism or any number of means of expression.

>>3740232
>>3740269
>>3740273
>hanging out with friends
>hey anon don't you draw
>yeah why
>can you draw x cute girl doing x
>sure... uhh.... let me just look up some reference......
>proceeds to copy reference
>oh so you copy all your drawings?

Whenever you draw in front of people, or stream, you will have this problem.
>but nobody cares
I bet you even non-artists will get disappointed if they find their favorite artist can't actually draw from imagination. People are sure to lose a bit of respect if they know you cannot create things yourself, from scratch.

Plus, nothing beats the feeling of looking at a drawing and knowing that it came from your own mind and nothing else.

>without reference the ultimate goal

It is. Because there will be times where you have to draw something that doesn't exist.

>>3740552
...there are always times where you have to drawing things that don't exist - that's what design is all about. And in those cases, you generally use reference.

>>3740552

Yeah, but that image uses posterized photos and/or 3d renders so...

>>3740172
Really? So if I take another artist's drawing, redraw the e.g. anatomy the same way they did but only looking at it and not going over their lines, you wouldn't consider that tracing/copying/plagiarism? Why?

>>3740747
First of all, why did you draw? Drawing is how to express your thoughts into a comprehensible visuals so others can look at it. How to get better at visualizing your thoughts through drawing and painting? By building libraries of references (just what AI does) in your mind that you can call forth instantly and actually develop your style with logic (based on the real life reference library you've gathered plus the understanding of the basics principles). Tracing is not gonna give that benefit of library building because your mind will be numb for not being fully utilised as a bank of data storage.

>>3740773
I understand why tracing is bad, but that wasn't the issue we're discussing, I was asking about the difference between tracing and using a reference, since both seem like the same crutch to me

>>3740195
Can he be sued for this? Wasn't the HOPE Obama poster guy sued by the photographer?

>>3740790
It's clear as day as what this anon said here: >>3740172

>>3740170
lol what

>>3740232
>>3740269
>non artists out

literally this >>3740538, your career and the trust from people is gone

Using reference is bad when it's just copying from other people's images. If you're going to use other people's material for reference, use it to get a general idea--how the back muscles work, how snow accumulates in rocky crevices, how a certain fabric folds, etc.

It's okay to use reference to copy a pose so long as it's your original content. Pose yourself or hire a model. That is acceptable and how many artists work.

That's the ethical side.

As far as it being a crutch, that's up to you. I'd suggest dropping this notion because it will cause you more frustration and stress because you're worried about using reference. Plus no one worth their weight in pencil shavings looks at it this way. Pros use reference. Masters use reference. As a beginner/journeyman, it's damn near essential.

>>3740194
Drawing from model is cheating.

>>3740538
If you think tracing takes no skill go ahead, grab a photograph and trace it and match the artstyle and quality of the example postet above. not you should shut the fuck up.

>>3741260
did you even read my post lmao

>>3740195
I really want to know what this guy would do if he had to draw any face on the spot without reference.

>>3740790
You still get to apply and show your skill while drawing from reference. It all depends on how you use it. It can be a crutch, but it can also be the single best way to improve your skills. Not everyone treats references the same way every time, you know. Point is, you have the freedom.
Tracing inherently doesn't let you have that. It can only ever be a crutch.

>>3740170
If you trace life drawings then it's automatically tracing. If you make your own life drawings then there's nothing you can really trace from outside of coincidentally finding a picture with the exact same life drawing as yours.

There's a reason why life drawings are always the first requirement in any art portfolio and that's because you shouldn't need references for fundamentals.

>>3740538
Tracing improves skill you nigger

>>3740955
Post your drawings

>>3741447
HHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHH

>>3741447
Tracing makes you better at tracing, not drawing. Stop being delusional by thinking that copying anything makes you talented.

>>3740552
this is reference at its worst. these are just images stamped over each other. A giant robot tip toes around a city and there is no interaction. it looks stale
imagination is import because lets you visualize what your drawing as actual thing and how it interacts with other elements around it instead of just an image to copy

>>3741494
What's the sauce of that gif?

>>3741678
Searched "massive mouth laugh girl" and found this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tfCBWFRivQ

Ok see this is what I don't get when I'm learning to draw

I get a comic or a cartoon or whatever the fuck.
Draw it
It sucks since I'm literally new.

Yet I feel like I'm more fucking progression than most books because I have zero imagination

And then I see people bitching about references. Isn't the entire fucking point of referencing to use it to make your own work. And tracing is literally "imma draw over this work"

>>3741494
>>3741505
Tracing can be used to get better. The アニメ私塾 guy mentions it a lot in the foreword to his book. It will get you used to the subject's symbol language, and by also doing real life studies and personal work you will acquire the ability to use the symbols at will

>>3741511
How is that any different from any character in empty space or some random flying superhero?

Forgot which book but Loomis makes fun of a reference cuck he used to work with, one day he didn't have his references.

>>3740408
>This is why I vowed to not become a reference cuck. Just draw from your mental library.
If you don't use references, then your "mental library" is going to be pathetically limited. The problem is that so many people become slaves to their references instead of just using them as a guide.

>>3740538
So you literally only care about attention and admiration. Are you a woman?

>>3742419
why do you care so much about implicating someone in both seeking attention and being a woman? they wont sleep with you no matter how hard you neg, anon

>>3742419
>>3742453
>>3741447
jesus christ

yes tracing can improve skill but only if you do it a certain way and you do NOT do it for any work outside of studying

>wah wah woman attention whore
no, it's about doing things that are respectable. It's almost like.a code of honor except you don't have to draw every single work from imagination. You just have to know how to do imagination drawing decently, both for yourself and for the people who look at your work and assume you can.

>>3741745
Tracing is literally copying the image mindlessly. How the fuck can you get any sort of symbol from that?

>>3742591
By copying the image mindfully

>>3742591
>mindlessly
No, that's just opinion. Tracing is simply the act of tracing your pen over the subject's lines to copy them. It's like those practice books to learn to write the ABCs with as a kid. You will learn symbols, and you will also learn to draw the same lines as those skilled artists you copy, which has a much deeper significance than you might think at first. If you add other fundies practice you will gain the ability to generate unique and legit imagination versions of the symbols