/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3680500
They aren't drawing because they have an inherent appreciation of and desire to create beauty, they do it as a political agenda-pushing act. They're not real artists.

>>3680500
about as horrific as the right wingers anime and furry "art".

>>3680503
that is the most moronic shit i've ever read on this site

i hate art like this but the fact that it pushes an idea or a "political view" (yes we live in an age where putting make up on a man is political for retards like you, unfortunately) is what makes it art

just because it's a "political" view you don't align with doesnt make it any less than what it is.

>>3680515
cringe

>>3680515
No one wants to see black Goku with curly hair and the lgtb flag on "his" purple shorts. They are pushing their agenda to characters that already have their design settled and they change everything to fit their pleasures and make them look progressive. I don't think they are doing it for fun, they are trying to "contribute" to change people's perception on how they normally see them. Also, offender comments are infallible in the description for their drawings, remarking their political agenda.

>>3680515
>>3680546
Get mad, and I agree with the sentiment you're saying, it isn't creative or unique to take existing characters but you didn't argue against what that anon said, it is art, whether you like it or not one of the biggest reasons art exists is to comment on current political and societal issues. I think most of this art looks like shit but it is still art, and we might not but there are people who care about it.

>>3680500
The same reason why weebs try to draw anime lolis. Because your aesthethic sense is most of the time learned behaviour from your ingroup.
That being said, why do you care?

>>3680503
>Real art is apolitical
God, what a complete retard.
>>3680515 is 100% right.

>>3680500
This shit right here is like the dub step music of illustration art.

>>3680500
Fine, but only if this is the last /pol/ thread for a little while. I’m on the artwork and critique board because I can’t live in the hurtbox 24/7.
To reduce it to one sentence, it’s because for their ideology, standards in general are harmful and oppressive.
Tl;DR: the ideology of hyper-inclusivity promotes ugliness as a tactic to obfuscate beauty, because an articulated ideal for what is good or beautiful undermines the existence of the ideological framework.
Art related example:
>be learning to draw human figures
>ask successful artist friend how to
>friend is trans man
>”hey, I need help drawing figures, all my men look too feminine and my women look too masculine.”
>”there is no such thing as too masculine or feminine.”
>... ??? Oh wait okay.
“Sorry I didn’t mean that in an offensive way, I’m just having difficulties drawing my figures the way I’m intending-“
>”there is no such thing as too masculine or feminine.”
At a later date it became clear that ideology was more important than giving me useful advice, and my insistence to get better was seen as affirming evil, oppressive categories of sex, gender, beauty, exc.

>>3680546
The aren't changing anything you sensitive freak. I don't like it myself either, but don't spout that "it's destroying muh childhood!!1!" baby excuse for hating something.

"""Diversity"""
They want you to think that diversity improves the art somehow, but when you ask them why, they only get angry and can't answer.

>>3681765
Yeah, I don't think anyone ever asks HOW having more black or gay people in something improves it. It's like the emperor has no clothes

>>3680500
it really all stems from the algorithms social medias have in place to keep you engaged
its so easy to create an echo chamber reaffirming your views or whatever bullshit you're doing nonstop instead of challenging you. people wouldn't go that deep into the rabbit hole without that.

>>3681250
This is a good post.

>>3681250
This ^^^^^^^

>>3681765
>>3681768
Common answer is representation. So that LGBT people, people of color, disabled people, can see that characters who look like them are appreciated and normalized.

>>3680949
No, it’s ugly porn.

>>3681832
I don't get this though. First what kind of retard can't relate to a character just because it doesn't look like them? Do these artists consider fags or disabled people stupid enough that they can't relate to a character that doesn't look exactly like them or doesn't act like a clinically retarded stereotype?
It does sound like a bunch of non-issues. I really dislike when art gets political in general, but to that extent over petty shit like this... Yuck.

Thought art was supposed to be visually pleasing.

At this point I’d rather look a guro or vore that this toxic shit.
At lest these folks know their work is offensive and don’t try shove it in our face

>>3681869
>First what kind of retard can't relate to a character just because it doesn't look like them
"straight" white males apparently, if any game features anything but that as their main protag (specifically with western games) the games are automatic pandering and all those retarded buzz words. you literally can't have a game with a woman without it being called SJW trash.

i also say "straight" because everyone is on the spectrum, and there's nothing straight about liking big fat futa cock

> love is love.

>>3681869
>First what kind of retard can't relate to a character just because it doesn't look like them?
You sound like the type of person who would start bitching when there's too many minorities in a particular piece of media.

>>3681875
I’m a woman and only ever liked one female protagonists: motoko

And later, Wonder Woman.

I don’t even like female vocalist

>>3681875
What about samus?

>>3681881
Hmm not really all that goes way over my head. As long as it makes sense within the context of the story I don't even notice it. Being obsessed about that would be as bad as being obsessed about minorities not being represented enough.

>>3681881
Why can’t people just have their own shows? Shows for women, shows for men. Shows for blacks, Hispanics, gays?
Why do we have to have a full on rainbow to please everyone? Who is pleased by this?
>didn’t get enough screen time,
>don’t like how said character is written
>women

>>3681250
Good post

>>3681875
>i also say "straight" because everyone is on the spectrum

You say that as if it's some sort of a big reveal. Of course everyone is on the spectrum all spectrums go from 0 to a 100 you retard

>>3681897
>You say that as if it's some sort of a big reveal
it is to many of yall who insist are straight but jerk it to nothing but anime girls with fat futa cocks

>>3681796
4chan has no such algorithms and /ic/ still loves tumblr "art". People are just stupid.

>Look, timmy liked the color of that dress, he MUST be trans, start HRT asap yaassss queeeen
>Why are half of trans people killing themselves, it MUST be the patriarchy
and my favorite
>We want trans people to be seen as normal
>Less than one percent of the population

Why aren't left-handed people a special protected group? why not people with green eyes? for every trans person there's hundreds of down syndrome people out there, but you never see people push that.

These people don't care about helping the downtrodden, they care about punching the status quo because people putting more effort in the workplace and being smarter means they're evil and oppresive.

>>3680503
What's political about an asian tranny humping a black tranny? It's degenerate but I wouldn't really call it political.

>>3681921
Tell me where bitch, I visit /trash/ almost everyday and everyone agrees that they're a bunch of cock sucking fags.

>>3681884
Decent taste desu. When thinking of female characters I like, Motoko is at the top of the list. But Riza Hawkeye and Lan Fan from FMA:BH are pretty killer too. Ellen Ripley, The Bride, also great. They’re not just STRONK for no reason though, they actually have character traits.

>>3681875
You make a lot of assumptions about why people don’t like that kind of media. Can you name something with a female protag where people were unjustifiably unhappy with it?
I’m mostly unhappy when they just drop the ball on characters in general. Let’s stick to specific examples. Emily Kaldwin from Dishonored 2 could’ve been so much more but they were too busy writing ideology into the game to give her a good character arc. And to some extent they handled Corvo even worse. How did they both just magically forget that poor people exist and what it was like to scrounge and struggle? Rich people amnesia? Privilege? That’s dumb as fuck, they don’t treat the trauma of the previous game like it even happened. For all the progressive messaging you’d forget that you’re playing as two literal monarchists, one of whom wants to put herself on the throne for reasons she never justifies to herself.
It’s bad writing, and the reason I think that ideology is to blame is both because of how the second to last mission plays out, and because for the last year of development Harvey Smith couldn’t fucking help himself from being political on Twitter. When the director of the game is doing that, it’s likely that their ideology affects how the game is written.

>>3681939
It's political because it's clear that the people who draw this shit are your typical leftist sjws

>>3681939
As much as I agree that in most cases you csnt just assume there's a political agenda behind it, but identity politics is so rife and this image is some odd gender bent overwatch characters who look almost nothing like their original counterparts, the female looks more manly, being in a very male position too, with the male character made to be more feminine. It reeks of identity politics.

>>3681888
>As long as it makes sense within the context of the story I don't even notice it.

the thing is though, a white male protagonist can be placed in any context and it's ok, because it's the default character of story telling. But if you put anyone else in you have to have a reason for it, you can't put a gay person in without a reason even though there are gay people are around you living, and they don't need a reason to live.

>>3681960
You're right but the thing is both art and politics are very ancient concepts, identity politics is comparably more modern. Which is think where the some of the confusion comes from when some people react to this by saying either that art should never be political or that everything is politics and that includes art. Like where do you draw the line with this stuff?

>>3681966
>the thing is though, a white male protagonist can be placed in any context and it's ok, because it's the default character of story telling
I think you're wrong when you say that putting a white male in any context without explanation is okay. In a story that happens in Asia or Arabia for example, he's stick out without a proper explanation. I'd find it perplexing personally.

If we're talking about representation specifically in western media, I see where you're coming from, even though the straight white male is the most represented thing (and I guess it can get boring sometimes), but I think it's normal since straight whites are still the majority in the countries concerned by it. Why would that need changing?

Also I don't get when you say that you need to have a proper reason to have a gay in your story. Like, sure we don't see too many of them because gays are a minority, but why would you need a reason? Care to elaborate?

>>3681832
>Take any given piece of art
>Add more black people and gay people
>The art is now better because of "representation"
Sorry, but I'm not convinced.

>>3681995
Not that guy, and I don't think it's really fair to compare a white male character with a gay character because they're two different things. But I do think there's definitely a case to be made that gay characters do need stories that focus on issues where their sexual orientation plays a role and are meaningful in some sort of way.
I recently watched Bohemian Rhapsody this week and that film doesn't shy away from a lot of the elements of Freddie Mercury's homosexuality. There's obviously a contextual element of a gay superstar in Britain during the 70s, but there's also an element that's part of the film's plot (even though it was biographical it was still a film with a plot in it). Like the film shows how Freddie surrounds himself with gay groupie lovers, with one villainous gay vulture of guy that just wants to feed off Freddie's success, and as Freddie starts to lose sight of who he really is he's talked back into himself by his old ex-girlfriend that he originally came out to (and I think he did love her in a way). You could argue that kind of story could be made with just a heterosexual orientation and maybe you're right, but it also happens for gay people as well. And you could even argue that there are elements that would only be present with gay characters. Like the gay villain that feeds off the star's success is especially like that. He has his whole life, a gay catholic man from Ireland, prepared as a quick and simple sob story so that he can feed off the empathy from Freddie and get closer to him. He's actually quite a despicable person, not much depth to him, and only lives for meaningless indulgences. You have two people, both are gay yet both are completely different in direction in life. You could even say that the moral of the film is to look beyond people's identity of sexual orientation and question who people really are, and that's a story that definitely involves gay characters.

>>3681995
> In a story that happens in Asia or Arabia for example, he's stick out without a proper explanation.

Asia or Arabia doesn't have much of a diverse society like we, the western world openly embrace. It'd be very strange to see a white guy in china or india, but if you see indians or chinese in the western world it's normal everyday life. Of course I'm speaking about western media, it's what these SJW's are complaining about too, western media.

>but I think it's normal since straight whites are still the majority in the countries concerned by it. Why would that need changing?

Because having fictional characters for diverse groups of people to look up in one of the most diverse countries in the world is a good thing to society as a whole. Look at shit like The Scully Effect where a women protagonist inspired thousands of women to go into medical, science and law enforcement fields. Fictional characters that you can relate to on a personal level (same skin color/gender/whatever) has a lasting affect on you.

>Also I don't get when you say that you need to have a proper reason to have a gay in your story

anti-sjws or gamerbros say how much they're fine with diversity or whatever but anytime you put a character in that you in real life probably meet everyday they'll go apeshit. Look at lesbian tracer, they complained how it's forced to push an agenda and there was no story leading up to her coming out gay. Who needs a story to come out gay? why can't you just be gay?

>>3682044
I see what you mean. To add on that I'd say I think that when sexuality has no role to play in a story it's pointless to even mention it, gay or not. Regardless of representation, that'd be bad storytelling.
>>3682061
Gotta agree with all you said anon.

Both of you picked good examples. It's good to have a nice conversation on /ic/ for a change.

>>3681768
>>3681765
I higly doubt you have actually asked ANYONE that question. Because almost any artist I know that participates in that kind of tumblrisms has clear reasons and arguments. Almost all agree on them too.
Just another /pol/tard having imaginary discusions with themselves and making strawmans.

>Imb4: you probably draw like that too
I don't, and I hate purpuseful ugly tumblr art, but I don't get triggered by seeing minorities either.

>>3681946
>Can you name something with a female protag where people were unjustifiably unhappy with it?
Women are a very grey area because eyecandy is a thing, but I can name clear examples of it happening with other minorities:

-A lot of the Steven Universe hate that comes just from the character designs.
-The last of Us 2 lesbian kiss
-Tracer being lesbian
-People complaining that the new She-ra is too boyish
-Black Panther being "black supremacist"
-Almost any piece of media that has trans characters
-Most racial changes of characters
-This retard that actually wants media separatism >>3681889


Just to name a few.
And don't get me wrong, I don't think forcing token minorities in every story is good either, nor do I think that "It would be such a good move if they make a black James Bond". But most of the time this kind of shit is inconsecuencial at most, getting triggered about it it's far worse than a writter or director just pushing for it on their own story.

Also, I actually do like diversity in character designs and the posibility of more diverse stories with those characters.

>>3682304
>Can you name something with a female protag where people were unjustifiably unhappy with it?
>people were unjustifiably unhappy with it?
>unjustifiably

key word

>>3682336
Justify all of those positions then.
Can't wait to see why is justifiable to be mad that Tracer is lesbian, or that there are brown people on Steven Universe.

>>3681869
>what kind of retard can't relate to a character just because it doesn't look like them?
You and OP, apparently.

>>3682341
>justify every single one of those positions, i'll wait
oh fuck off there are plenty of solid arguments against progressive politics and homosexuality, people have literally been debating these points for hundreds of years

>>3682344
>Solid arguments
No they aren't. There is absolutely no solid argument for being triggered by fucking tracer dating a girl. Or by characters in SU. How much of a fucking child do you have to be?
If you get mad for that shit your are even more retarded and sensitive than your run of the mill SJW.

>>3682228
>I higly doubt you have actually asked ANYONE that question
Sorry, I stopped reading your post after that retarded assumption. Please do better if you want to discuss this with me.

>>3682351
Just because you're ignorant and uneducated doesnt mean that everyone is bud.

I know half you faggots can't stand anime, but I like the way gay characters are handled in Japanese art like anime or manga. They're just gay characters. But in western art, they're not just gay, they're "LGBT" and it's this big deal. It's more obnoxious. There's something very typical of American narcissist about it. Very off-putting.

>>3682365
>Getting triggered about a videogame character sexuality is a high intelectual pursuit
>I'm educated, I've read two whole books
Kek.
Keep telling yourself that, anon.

>>3682344
>>3682365
>there are plenty of solid arguments
>names 0 because he'll be destroyed in every argument
>heh, you're just uneducated losers, look at my books.

Fuck off, if you have such a strong opinion about something you should be able to back it up very easily

>>3682379
yeah dude ive only ever read two books
U TRIGERED BRO HAHA

you're very immature and dont care to take time to genuinely evaluate things that dont fit your vindictive reductionist viewpoints, thats clear from your posts.

>>3682401
i'd just rather not spend the time proving myself to a nobody on 4chan who's too lazy to do a simple google search.

it's pointless because you dont really care to inform yourself you just want to argue on the internet.

>>3682410
so I googled "arguments against progressive politics and homosexuality" and almost every single site that came up was religion. So, is religion your argument? You're not really helping me figure out your arguments for you

>>3682410
>google search
"why don't you make my argument for me, I don't know how to do that!"

>>3682342
Nobody complains that they don't relate to them, people complain because it's just tokenized bullshit for asspats, and they are almost always over the top stereotypes
That's not being upset over not being relatable because they don't look like them, it's simply not liking horrific characatures as a form of "diversity" only being made so brainless execs can go on about how woke they are

>>3682410
>>3682408
>You don't evaluate my non existent arguments
Evaluate what? Your "there are solid arguments, look them up"? Unlike you, I have actually talked with people that disagree with me, that's how I know what are the SJWs arguments and your "high intelectual arguments" given by people that agree with you but are not pussies.
When was the last time you actually considered the arguments of someone that disagreed with you, faggot?

>>3682364
>How dare you say I don't actually talk with people I disagree with, for that I will refuse to talk to you!

>>3682368
What are you talking about, in anime gay character are never openly gay, all of their relationships are insinuated but never explicitly expressed, Even with Yuri and Yaoi, genres that specifically revolve around the subject they just imply shit a nothing ever happens, Kobayashi-san Chi no Maid Dragon, a show were the characters are basically married but have never kissed eachoter, being one of the most "openly" lesbian animes should tell you enough.

>>3682419
it's more like white people grew up seeing white males as main protags in almost every show/game and they saw that as normal and could always feel a connection with the character no matter what they did. Now when minorities start appearing more and more in these things it feels like they're under attack because you don't feel a connection to the character and it's not the norm anymore.

I feel like they're going to be a civil war in the US if white population ever drops before 50% if they complain about minorities being represented more in games and movies now, fuck.

>>3682368
I agree, have you read "my brother's husband"? It actually tackles what it's like to be gay in their culture and its written with alot of heart.
manga doesn't have this "YAAAS SLAYYYY QUEEN IM A DEMIGENDER BLACK TRANS FAT DRAG QUEEN YAAASS"
They have shit like black samurai when it comes to black characters or my brother's husband for gay characters, or if they are in they don't feel forced like western shit.
they don't need to shovel in as many quotas as they can because it's not written by five hundred pound white women trying desperately to get phraise for simply making a character

>>3682424
I just pointed out a manga with an openly gay character called "my brother's husband" in the post above me
Also there is an openly trans character in Tokyo ghoul (pic related)

>>3682425
>could always feel a connection with the character no matter what they did
Yeah I'm sure every white person ever has always without question related to every white character in fiction ever

>>3682416
that post kind demonstrates the issue i have with this dialogue

see, cathy newman, your willingness to explore new concepts is so stunted by petty one-upsmanship that you're living in a world of deliberate intellectual dishonesty .
I too googled "arguments against progressive politics and homosexuality" and the first link that came up was a Wikipedia page outlining the LGBT social movements with a focus on north america.
At the bottom of this page is a very helpful little list of 128 informative citations, many of which are scientific papers detailing the effects of homosexuality through the lens of western philosophy as well as arguments against the progression of homosexual ideology.

Now, the second link that appears under this trove of informative material after I submit my google search is a Cambridge paper entitled "God, Gays, and Progressive Politics: Reconceptualizing Intersectionality as a Normatively Malleable Analytical Framework" (which in itself seems to be an informative and well thought-out piece" as well as a variety of other articles, some with a focus on religion, some not.
Instead of taking the time to read any of these papers, investigate any of the books and papers cited, truly EDUCATE yourself on the subject, you retaliate with:

"So religion is your arguement"?

It's just so exhausting and indicative of your unwillingness to move the dialogue forward, i really dont believe that it would be a good use of my time nor energy attempting to discuss the implications and effects of homosexuality or any of the other issues you brought up.
Here, let me play the strawman you so desperately want "MY ARGUMENT IS THAT GAYS IS BAD CUZ GOD IS TOLD ME SO AHYUCK HYUCK"

>>3682424
>B-BUT THEY ARENT OPEN ABOUT IT, YOU SHITLORD, US WESTERNERS ARE BETTER AT IT!!
Here are some recognizable openly trans characters in well known anime/manga
It's pretty clear you don't read enough and are just making baseless accusations about them never being open about it
Masaru "Chaplin" Sukegawa (Deadman Wonderland)
Magne (Boku No Hero Acadamia)
Sayo Yasuda (Umineko When They Cry)
Crona Gorgon (Soul Eater, nonbinary)
Tooru Mutsuki (Tokyo Ghoul)
So yeah stop randomly making shit up when you haven't even read the more popular manga out there

>>3682431
>>3682426
Those are mangas, they tend to push a lot more boundaries than anime.
And yeah, in manga I do agree there are good gay character that are openly gay, but those are still the outliers. Saying we should look at anime as a good example is like saying we should look at DC for good superhero movies because The Dark Knight is a thing.

>>3682442
>Gives you a big list
>T-THEY ARENT THE NORM, THOUGH
holy fuck, trannys make less than 1% of the population, why would they need to be overepresented when they are a ridiculously small minority?

>>3682437
You want me to read 128 sources while simultaneously you won't give a single counter point at all, I don't even know what your stance on it is anymore because you're so slimy at avoiding conflict. have you read any of this sources at all? Or should I write a thesis and post it for you? Even then you might not be able to make an argument

>>3682445
I'm saying explicit openly gay characters are the outliears among gay characters in anime. I never even said anything about trans characters. Calm down.

>>3682447
im not being "slimy" im actively avoiding engaging with you in an slap fight that is sure to contain the constant shifting of goalposts, continual ad hominem attacks, and a juvenile grasp on critical thinking.

Your whole premise is that there are no good arguements against homosexuality and forced ethnic diversity. I'm showing you that there are many, and you're going "OH YEAH WELL READ THEM TO ME", something you're very capable of doing yourself.

My personal stance on the matters at hand is completely irrelevant to the point that im making.

>>3682445
Bro, trannies and gay people are in Japanese media all the time and have been for years and they make a very small minority of people in Japan. Why do they need overespresentation when they have such a small population?

>>3682437
>God, you don't want to search my arguments for me, this makes me so superior
Why don't you just look up the counter arguments to those arguments and get back to us with your response to those then?
Remeber, if you don't do it it means we are smarter than you.

very based and redpilled thread tbqh

>>3682455
Because I was never attempting to make any arguments for or against the morality or ethics of the mentioned subjects, simply demonstrating that counterarguments do exist.

please work on your reading comprehension

>>3682448
Okay you want a list of openly gay characters in recognizable anime and NOT manga?
>The chick with glasses in darling in the franxx, she is constantly pursuing another female character in the show
>Tomoyo from card captor Sakura constantly goes on about her romantic love for Sakura that will never happen
>Sailor Neptune and Uranus, only changed to cousins in the shitty dubs
>Cutie honey talks about how she loves men and women alike, but most of her tender relationships are with females
>That Yuri bear anime
Seriously, gay shit is popular there, stop denying it because you want to believe westernshit is more progressive

>>3682460
>challenge someone
>they challenge you back
>"woah hey guys look you need to figure this stuff out yourself, i'm not making any arguments but they do exist".

how fucking slimy can you be, you can use that excuse for literally any argument ever. I'm sure I could find arguments for why 2+2=5

>>3682460
>simply demonstrating that counterarguments do exist
No, you were trying to prove that SOLID arguments exist, which they don't. And to see why they don't, look up all those counter arguments on google.
Don't backpedal like bitch and then tell me I lack reading comprehension.

>>3682464
My whole argument WAS that heavily researched counterarguments regarding the aforementioned matters do exist, and they do.
You're operating under the fallacious assumption that I'm attempting to vouch for the validity and quality of the counterarguments themselves within the framework of their context, whatever that may be.

>>3682461
Sakura CardCaptor is the prime example of the kind of shit I'm talking about, with all of their gay relationships. People Allways infatuated with and a lot of blushing and compliments going on but never an actual relationship like it happens with the straight characters.

I could talk a lot about Darling in the franxx on this subject, but you did got me there tho, the other bisexual dude had a preety interesting story too.

>>3682473
>This one specific character isn't in a relationship, let's completely ignore all the other ones listed

>>3682466
You know, you really show grow out of relentlessly insulting everyone you attempt to have a productive discussion with.

You would prefer that I copy the contents of a multiple books which sufficiently encapsulate my views and reasoning and paste them into a post here instead of giving you the title of the book itself?

>>3682473
Like it seems like you are just a little bitch about a specific type of Japanese romance stereotype despite the mountain of gay characters in relationships as I had named
The majority aren't like tomoyo but whatever, maybe you would like to name some since you seem to act like it's such a huge issue?

>>3682466
How do you know that solid arguements don't exist if you're not willing to read the material?
I mean you might as well plug your ears and go "LALALALALA"

>>3682476
No I would prefer that you follow your own logic and do exactly what you are asking of others. It's not that hard to understand.

> Calling anyone that ask you for arguments, unaducated, Cathy Newman, I'm so superior
> But don't call me a bitch or fag! It's not productive!
Is there any position on which you are not a hipocrite?

>>3680506
havent seena single right wing furry in my entire life, most of them seem to be some flavor of communism

>>3682493
I am logically consistent.
I acknowledge that there are well thought out proponents as well thought out opponents based on the material that I have viewed.

I'm really done with this conversation, you're so desperate to "win" and i'd rather spend my time doing something else. I dont really care what you think honestly, you're far out of your league. bye and good luck

>>3682476
>>3682490
Eliminating comments so soon?
I know the arguments about how "gay people on TV will destroy society you guys", and I've read a fair share of the bogus studies, that's how I know they are not solid.
It's not like every conversation I've had about this topic was as autistic as this one.

>>3680500
Gotta meet all those diversity quotas.
They have an aversion to idealism and rely on "my style" excuse to remain shitty and never improve.
Also, the moral degeneracy of modern society.

>>3682501
hmm i havent read "Gay People on TV Will Destroy Society You Guys" yet, i'm sure it's enlightening.

>I've read bogus studies that's how i know it's wrong
Truly a great mind

>>3682304
Not the anon you're arguing with but at least for me:
>Steven Universe has more focus on design and diversity than actually getting across story/plot
>TLOU2 kiss happening very pointedly in a religious location out of all other places, on top the fact it was a focal point in the trailer
-Many western media going out their way to place mention a character being trans as a way of virtue signalling

I didn't really care for Tracer or She-ra, though I can get some people settlements over She-ra seeming too boyish. Same with Black Panther.

For media separatism, it already exists since certain media is already made for certain audiences (Black Panther for blacks, She-ra for girls for example), but there's been more of an obvious push to include things meant for or would be more appreciated by another audience (gays/feminists in this case) in media that they would typically never indulge in in the first place. And even if it was a ploy to try and buy them over with, its not uncommon at all for something intended for them to be completely looked over in order to instead "fix" and/or "improve" some non issue instead; OP Pic of this is a good example since the characters already address their want or more racial diversity , but instead of being satisfied with just that they went and pushed it further by skewing their gender portrayal on top of that for more pats on the back.

>>3680917
>>Real art is apolitical
>God, what a complete retard.

No you're missing the point. It's not the fact that there are politics in their 'art', it's the fact that they're solely producing it to promote their politics. It's not art, it's propaganda.

>>3681875
>i also say "straight" because everyone is on the spectrum

That implies no one is gay either, are you fucking homophobic you piece of nazi shit? Bet you voted for trump, racist cunt. You clearly just hate gay people.

>>3682535
Yeah! Orange man bad!

>>3682533
>it's the fact that they're solely producing it to promote their politics
How do you know? Can you read minds? And why are they doing it themselves instead of paying someone more capable, skillful, or more artistic if they only want to promote their politics. It's like they enjoy drawing or something.

Besides, it's hardly propaganda if they keep it for their circle. They don't come here to convert negritos like every poltard in existence.

>>3682528
First of all, thanks for not being a fag and actually presenting arguments.
So much asumptions in what you said, though.
How would those things need to be presented for you not to call it virtue signalling? Because to me it just sounds like you are complaingin about NaughtyDog being self aware and realising that putting a lesbian character would stir the pot, which it did. So what should they've done? Deny reality and pretend they didn't knew it was going to be a controversy? Don't make any character a lesbian for fear of "virtue signaling"?
The way I see it you seem to be calling any media that is open about having minorities "virtue signaling", and just assuming every case must be a SJW ploy.

Also, I really want to hear why do you undertand being mad about tracer dating a girl and a childrens cartoon character not being sexy enough.

>Media separatism already exist
Demografics being a thing isn't media separatism. A mojority black cast doesnt make a movie "for blacks" more than a mojority white cast doesn't make a movie "for whites".

>>3682565
>First of all, thanks for not being a fag and actually presenting arguments.

reminder that i was presenting the existence of arguements but you literally werent able to comprehend that becauses you wanted to badly to argue on the internet, brainlet.

>>3682566
Shush anon, adults are talking now. Go read you 128 sources on how videogames shouldn't have gay characters.
Your lame atempt at "everyone has solid arguments! See? I'm consistent guys!" was pathethic enough.

>>3680503
this is why "tumblr artists"/sjws are such miserable human beings.
they do shit just to spite others so often that they eventually lose sight of their passion- the love they used to have for art. their lives devolve into hateful circle jerking, and before you say "do you know where you are??" it's so much worse on sites like tumblr than anywhere else that ive seen. worse than kiwifarms, 4chan, ect.

sjws are so desperate for likes on social media that they'll even resort to eating eachother. pic related

This board is so embarrassing.

>>3682583
lol you have nothing bud, do you live in Maryland by any chance? I'd love to meet up and find out if you stand by those words.

>>3682622
>>3682583
https://youtu.be/6zUc-mpMGrs

>>3682609
>worse than kiwifarms
I am kinda doubtful of this, 4chan is all puppies and rainbows in comparison to kiwifarms. But I never truly immersed myself in tumblr

>>3680500
SJW art sucks for several reasons
>the overly-inclusive nature means that there can be no standard of beauty
>the most aesthetically pleasing way to draw humans conforms to classic eurocentric and east asian standards of beauty, so the big-nosed, swollen-lipped, obese, black trans OC with widely-spaced eyes will get left out
>they can't fucking draw to start with. They're too fucking dumb and lazy for STEM and thought drawing animu-disney shit would be better
>cannot improve because they're lazy, prefer a hugbox, "muh style, and the above first 2 reasons
>"anything can be art"

>>3682424
>in anime gay character are never openly gay
Yeah in your extremely limited experience lmao. Sorry but just because you've seen the bandwagon meme show of each season, you're hardly an expert on the topic

>>3682445
Trannies are over-represented in anime. They have an entire show. I'm pretty sure most of the cast of JoJo is trans

>>3682583
>Shush
>adults are talking
>go be x
>lame
Now this is just embarassing.

>>3680503
This anon failed at phrasing it, but it's a real concern of mine. I don't think all "art" can be really considered art. It has to have some artistic merit to it... whatever that means. An artistic intention, perhaps. I've been thinking about this a lot. For example I can't be proud if I print a Goku right now, put a white sheet over it and trace it. I don't feel like you're creating art, you're just producing a picture with no meaning. Same as a person who doesn't know how to draw but autistically sets up grids and perfectly copies a photograph frame by frame. That also I wouldn't call art, nor that person would be an artist.

It sounds subjective but I'm sure I'm close to hitting the mark. Simply put, not all drawings are art in the platonic way. Just like we don't really consider fellow humans animals despite it being technically correct since we aren't minerals nor vegetables, but there's a clear difference between people and animals so much that the average Joe doesn't even know we're animals.

Those shitty tumblr drawings should fall somewhere within the "lack of artistic merit" spectrum. It's not actually trying to send a message of positivity, it's mostly a circlejerk. Like memes. Memes aren't art.

>>3682565
For me at least, not making a big point/focus on the moment would be enough. My opinions about the gays specifically would get me death threats probably but I don't really care for their inclusion unless it's done very pointedly. In real life, you don't tend to upfront demand peoples exact race/gender/sexuality/etc so why should that be forced upon you unnaturally in media? I'm not saying to only mention it to the side like the off comment Elle made about that one NPC and his gay magazines but if your first exposure to something is a very in your face focus on something argued to be "natural and normal" then why go out the way to point it out? The only answer I've found so far is to show how "progressive" you are and get lots of aspats over nothing; with companies it even works as another layer of protection where they guaranteed themselves the support of tumblrites who will quite literally ignore all valid flaws and criticisms mainsteam might have solely because the work contains someone of x gender/sexuality/whatever. Best part is that I do fall into some of these minorities, but it's so hard to find things that just let things be without pointing out how important and special I should think it is because obviously I've never been able to relate to or enjoy anything without it up til x show/game/whatever came out.

I'm not into Overwatch but I ironically think Tracer was a good example of just being presented with no real virtue signaling since iirc it was revealed in a comic page without forcing an audience to keep their attention on it for more than they'd like in a setting that would intentionally offend certain groups like TLOU2 kiss in the church. Same with She-ra, but it just feels pretty tame to me compared to lots of other things I've seen (see: Jem and the Holograms comic). And I guess the word I was looking for was demographics. I'm sure you probably find flaws in this but thanks for hearing me out anyway.

>>3680515
Pretty much all of the great masters of old always said "Art can't be political", and this rings true. Art is something liberating, not something that chains you down and forces you to think and behave in an agenda-orchestrated way. All it does is turn you into a slave/sheep, artist and audience alike.

>>3681875
this is just total nonsense. In fact nowadays people applaud the fact that games feature a female protag. Heck even in the last 10 years.

Idk what kind of hillbilly games u play dude, but it's probably something that attracts insecure underage faggots. Something like battlefield 5

All of you need to fuck off from /ic/.
And I mean ALL of you. SJWs, anti-SJWs and anti-anti-SJWs.
You contribute nothing to the board other than political garbage.
Take your sissy keyboard fights to twitter or something.

>>3682441
Like.. you do know that trans people aren't necessarily gay? All the ones you listed are gimmick trans character to fill the needs of diversity, and no not political diversity (since nips don't give a fk about that), but diversity in sake of the character environment. All JoJo characters are indirectly trans, but it's more of a stylistic choice to make everything seem "diva" and "grand".

So that anon was kind of right, unless you're reading some doujin bishi created by a woman or a gay dude, you won't find any open gay scenes in an anime or a big published magazine. It's not something to be open about, nor is it the taste of the great majority readers/watchers.

>>3680546
>Black Goku
New form?

>>3682341
There is one thing all those characters are missing that makes them bad, YOU FUCKING FORGOT THE CHARACTER DEPTH!

>>3682821
I get your point of how obnoxious it is when it's in your face like how it was with the Last of Us 2. But is just basic marketing that you would want to push controversial shit like that front and center to get people talking about your game. It has nothing to do with it being normal or natural, it has everything to do with people caring about it, and both people celebrating it and people like you lashing out against it proves that they are right in making that assumption.
As a marketing ploy I don't see it more obnoxious than just talking about how a videogame was made with hollywood actors. It would be ridiculous to get triggered about that shit.
At the end of the day you are just getting mad that a company is marketing something you don’t like, something as menial as character sexuality, what’s the difference between that and a feminist getting mad about a game advertising it’s boobs physics? It’s just two faces of the same stupid coin.

>>3683247
Yeah, I'm sure you are also complaining about how shalow Mercy and IronMan are.
At least SJWs are honest about how much they care about superficial shit, you guys always try to pull out these retarded excuses.

>>3680515
Holy shit your brain is worthless putty. If art has a political agenda, it's not art. It's propaganda. I don't care whether or not you commit suicide because you are so retarded that you are functionally already dead.

>>3682304
It seems to me like what Steven Universe, TLOU2 and Black Panther have in common is that they're big productions that should failed due to their numerous flaws but succeed and make millions due to their market appeal in identity politics. This would be fine if people were more willing to speak up about their flaws but people in the west seem to be very willing to suck corporate cock in the form of their favourite products so long as they align with their cosmopolitan social views.
It's part of a larger problem of corporate progressivism, which conservatives seem to dislike in general.

>>3683464
>Art and propaganda are mutually exclusive
Yeah, you are just a brainlet

>>3683464
What would you say about this?

>>3680503
No its to display their personal strength, which they fail at.

>>3683441
Well I tried to provide more insight on but you seem just as convinced and bent on proving that it's just people getting mad/upset for the sake of it with no valid reasons besides it so I don't know what to say besides thanks for discussing it without being a bigger jerk than needed.

>>3683490
socialist realism is gay because most of the time they ignore the suffering of their own people lmao

>>3683650
>staunch look to fight against adversity such as suffering
>lmao the ignore suffering
Maybe art is too much for your brain.

>>3681939
For tumblr it's typically about "challenging traditional white male patriarchy beauty standards" or some horseshit like that which is why they make everyone an ugly, obese, hairy legged and ambiguously brown with skin defects. They went so deep into the whole muh oppressive standards rabbit hole that they started to fetishize ugliness and unhealthiness because it's "inclusive".

>>3681875
>>3681881
>>3682342
On one side are people changing established characters into something they are not because the people doing that (or most often their imagined audience) are too stupid to identify with characters unless they tick enough "is like me" boxes. On the other side are the people saying "why are you changing this character?" If you seriously equate the two, you're either a moron or intellectually dishonest who endorses this bullshit.

>>3682609
can i see more tumblr art, is that the "tumblr style" i keep hearing about? is it really that ugly?

>>3682304
>People complaining that the new She-ra is too boyish
There's not even a single feminine thing about "her" design. It's just a man in drag.

>>3682441
>Crona Gorgon (Soul Eater, nonbinary)
>nonbinary
Made up term. Crona's gender was just kept ambiguous to the viewer.

>>3683667

>>3683678

>>3683703

>>3683706

HEY FAT FUCKING FAGGOTS, STOP MAKING THREADS ABOUT SJW/ANTISJW/ANTIANTISJW BULLSHIT AND START DRAWING INSTEAD. WHY THE FUCK DO YOU CARE SO MUCH ABOUT AND GET DISCOURAGED BY THESE BPD CUNTS ON TUMBLR DRAWING SELF INDULGENT ART FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR CIRCLEJERK OF EQUALLY AS BPD FRIENDS? IT'S PROBABLY BECAUSE YOU ARE TOO A MENTALLY ILL FAT RETARD THAT DRAWS SELF INDULGENT ART (EXCEPT IT'S BADLY DRAWN MOE GIRLS INSTEAD OF BADLY DRAWN COASTIE PROGRESSIVE COLLEGE STUDENTS) AND SPENDS 10 HOURS OF YOUR DAY CATATONICALLY BROWSING SOCIAL MEDIA (YES THAT INCLUDES 4CHAN AND REDDIT WHICH I KNOW YOU ALL SECRETLY BROWSE, THAT'S WHY YOU CARE/COMPLAIN ABOUT REDDIT'S OPINIONS). SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT POLITICS AND START DRAWING, YOU WILL NEVER REACH YOUR GOAL OF BECOMING THE NEXT MASTER ARTIST OF THE 21ST CENTURY IF YOU KEEP ARGUING ABOUT RETARDED BULLSHIT THAT YOU COULDN'T KEEP IT ON TWITTER/INSTA/FACEBOOK OR WHERE EVER YOU CAME FROM AND HAD TO BRING IT TO 4CHAN. THE REAL ART WORLD DOESN'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT FEEBLE FAT RETARDS LIKE YOU AND TUMBLR CUNTS, IT CARES ABOUT PEOPLE WHO WERE PASSIONATE TO THE POINT OF AUTISM ABOUT THEIR ART. AUTISTS LIKE ILLASTRAT AND JIMMY, HOWEVER TERRIBLE THEIR ART MAY BE, HAVE A BETTER CHANCE OF BEING REMEMBERED IN HISTORY FOR THEIR ART THAN ANY OF YOU FAGGOTS ARGUING IN THIS THREAD. EITHER DRAW MORE AND DON'T POST UNTIL YOU IMPROVED (OF COURSE YOU WON'T, BECAUSE YOU ARE AN EFFETE FAT FUCK WHO GETS DISCOURAGED THAT EVEN TUMBLR BPD CUNTS ARE BETTER THAN YOU (THEY PROBABLY HAVE LOWER ESTROGEN THAN YOU, TOO)) OR DO WHAT THIS ANON >>3682846 SAID OR KILL YOURSELVES LIKE HITLER, WHO WAS A FAT (HE TOOK METH TO STAY AVG WEIGHT) AUTISTIC WEEABOO FAGGOT JUST LIKE YOU, DID.

>>3683721
Yikes.

>>3683731
fat fuck

>>3683732
Cringe.

>>3683721
>roast sjw/anti-sjw art regardless of your personal political stance
>centrist: [autistic screeching]

>>3683735
You're a fat faggot that belongs to one of the following: SJW, antiSJW, antiantiSJW and my post strikes home too hard and this is why you're making useless posts and arguing with other reddit immigrants about retards on the internet and wasting time that could be used for drawing

>>3683742
None of this SJW/antiSJW internet dwelling bougie bullshit matters in real life retard, go to an art gallery and show the old man art curator what he thinks of fat transgender fan art of Fate grand order characters.

>>3683746
The way you're obsessed with the whole fat thing makes it pretty obvious you're projecting, mr. porker.

>>3683759
>projecting
>armchair pop psychology
I'm Azn so muh genetics make it hard to get fat. I don't even give a fuck about fat people as long as they contributed to humanity, like Richard Stallman. But I said Fat multiple times to criticize your pathetic uppermiddleclass lifestyle which consists of arguing on social media about drawings of characters from retard tier entertainment like anime and vidya in your apartment that mommy and daddy paid for.

>>3683513
I listened to your arguments and they seemed lacking, and I explained why they were lacking. That's how a discussion works. It seems like a lot of you guys are taken aback by having to actually engage in a back and forth on these subjects.
Anyway, thanks for talking about it like a normal person.

>>3683665
Except that half of the time the things they are complaining is brand new characters, like Tracer. And of course, the obvious fact that the same people don't complain about changes when they are not related to race/sexuality.
And Black Panther outrage not fitting anywhere on you narrative.

Why do you guy keep presenting arguments that don't actually account for what you seem to be upset about? Why can't you just be honest with yourselves?

>>3683467
>A standar Marvel movie would have failed if it wasnt for the minorities
You are delusional, I don't know how else to adress being so out of touch with reality.

>>3683721
You are a complete autist, but you are right, I should just get back to drawing. Thanks for that deranged post

>>3682496
>Right wing anime AND furry "art"

Pls learn to read buddy.

>>3682557
>paying someone more capable, skillful, or more artistic
Because they're anti-capitalists (Or in more realistic terms, they're fuck-ups who can't hold a job for more than a week if at all and have no money as a result)

>>3682550
This, 100% this!

(I was being sarcastic in that other post if you couldn't tell)

>>3683795
Calling others delusional for simply pointing out that crap hollywood shlock films would fail if it weren't for, amongst other things, the market appeal of racial identity politics that they're so heavily steeped in (the film is fucking called BLACK PANTHER), is pretty unbecoming for someone that wants anons on /ic/ to be "more honest" and "actually engage in a back and forth". Don't respond.

>>3681952
Interesting point, anon.

Art isn't political because of its contents or appearance, it's political because of who the artist is.

Discuss?

>>3680500

I don't miss snowflake

>>3683940
You faggots always laugh at SJWs for being too sensitive and living in hugboxes but then cry like pussies when someone calls you a retard or delusional, while also running away from any disenting conversation, crying that "anon is so closeminded", whitout any self awareness.

You are delusional if you think a movie from the biggest series of movies in present day would of floped. You are out of touch with reality and don't know why people watch movies. You are delusional, there is no other way to say it. Sorry if it hurts your precious feelings.

>>3680500
If you are mentally ill you will draw crap

>>3680500
I get cringe threads are fun but this is like the 3rd one of this specific shit on /ic/ right now. We get it you hate tumblr stop crowding out actually good threads with this shit.

>>3680506
>about as horrific as the right wingers anime and furry "art".
(Almost) about as horrific as right winger's anime, and furry art.
>>3683865
>>Right wing anime AND furry "art"
>Pls learn to read buddy.
Learn how to use grammar, retard.

I think what bothers me is usually how like, not in the moment this type of art is. It's rare that I see artists take a spin on a character and draw it very personalized or sentimental. Instead they draw it with weird amalgamations of artstyles and jarring colors and they're often in a boring pose. Or they're not interacting with an environment so it just makes me not give a shit about it. They take bits and pieces from artstyles which is fine but its like they have no clue sometimes as to how fucking ugly it can be.

>>3683464
>If art has a political agenda, it's not art

lmao you're dumb

>>3683464
>If art has a political agenda, it's not art.

This guy's Sonic the Hedgehog vore drawings are ART! Guernica is NOT ART