/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

What's the point of this thread? That you are unable to do finished work?

>>3649291
well you know the drill... post your work, otherwise we cant help you.

Just learn to draw shits that’s passable, focus on composition and story and go for it.

Composition, story telling, simplifying forms, are all fundamentals. learn to finish a drawing.

>>3649291

>muh anatomy

meanwhile I bet you can't draw a single appealing line
Your anatomy is probably shit too.

>>3649300
>a single appealing line

This.

Drawing final lines is more valuable than grinding.

>>3649299
>learn to finish a drawing.
is grinding a mistake?

it's called deadlines

>>3649291
learn impressionism. anime falls under the breadth of modern art and uses tons of techniques that classical retards can't seem to get their heads around because they are stuck with an antiquated way of seeing.

>>3649324
OPs point exactly, dat broken hip/ elongated trunk.
oof

>>3649329
a lot of these drawings are made with intentionally broken anatomy so they can be better 'used'. who the fuck gets off micro-analyzing bone placement?

>>3649291
Hey guys are you ready for the art blackpill? No one cares if the shading, anatomy or perspective are 100% correct if it looks good. We like art because of the atmospere or the story it provides and having perfect anatomy won't do shit in helping that. As long as something doesn't stand out like crazy you are good to go.

>>3649335
i agree. even if you get all the anatomy 'perfect' you still have to do something with all that meat. you still have to compose. spelling out every detail makes terrible storytelling. making artwork that is 100% scientifically accurate makes you seem like a moron that missed out on the last 160 years of art history.

Pic related. Guy knows more anatomy than most furry artists I'm sure. Yet his work is absolutely awful and has zero appeal.

>>3649335
yet /ic/ tells people to get gud they have to grind fundies, learn anatomy and do figures daily etc.

hmmm

>>3649354
the majority of /ic/ has never learnt a damn thing before in their life except playing MMOs and believe art HAS TO follow the same formula of grinding to epics. when they realize that doesn't work they come here and cry about their depression and play games trying to get any non-retards to give up their 'secrets'.

>>3649358
Alright so how does it work then?

>>3649365
observation, imagination, trial and error. you need all 3. it helps a lot not being intellectually and emotionally crippled.

>>3649369
>it helps a lot not being intellectually and emotionally crippled.
I didn't know the arts was a Chad hobby. Fuck off.

>>3649374

>>3649378
>posting 2013 anime reaction images off of google images you just saved

Now really fuck off.

>>3649379

>>3649382

>>3649383

>>3649385

>>3649387

>>3649391
Fuck.Off.

This thread is hilarious.

>>3649335
>>3649354
The problem is that anatomy and fundies are eminently more teachable than good visual sense.

The first struggle for a /beg/ is learning how to think in 3D rather than 2D, which fundies and studies undoubtedly help with. The second is knowing how to recognize when something looks bad and how to fix it, which can't be taught by reading a book. That's where the 'talent' part of art comes in, having an inborn sense for appealing visual design. I'm not saying a visual sense can't be cultivated over time and experience, but it explains why even poor technical artists can still make appealing art.

>>3649400
>The problem is that anatomy and fundies are eminently more teachable than good visual sense.

Maybe the truth is that it can't be taught at all.

>>3649405
exactly this. it's perverse how people think anything can be taught. what a narrow insulting view of life.

>>3649405
>>3649406
I don't think visual sense can't be taught, but someone who has to learn it will never be as good as someone who just has it. It's like the difference between being a math sperg and a normal human: you give the math sperg some complicated equation and they just intuitively know how to solve it, while the normie can learn to solve it with the instructor's help, by following examples, etc. They can both arrive at the same answer in the end, but it'll never be as natural, easy, and fast for the normie as it is for the math sperg.

It's the same reason why the normie doesn't go and then try to become a mathematician.

>>3649415
to be clear i'm saying visual sense is learnable but not teachable. a lot of things just can't be taught, no matter how gifted the receiving person is.

>why the normie doesn't go and then try to become a mathematician
it's rare but they do exist. the knowledge changes them though. or they compartmentalize like how those middle easterners do at american universities.

>>3649415
>>3649418
>>3649405
Visual sense can be taught and it can certainly be learned. However the things that make it click for people are vastly diverse.

So in the end art is shit and we're all fumbling around until we die a failure.

>>3649429
>the things that make it click for people are vastly diverse.
you can say that about anything. dangle axioms and false rules in front of someone whilst assigning them homework and wait for something to take hold. it's an outdated education system that created mostly dead-eyed memorizers and cargo culting philistines.

>>3649433
yep...

OP. Thank you, you made me realise something, and this is advice that you may need as well... It'll never matter how much you grind. You have the seedlings for becoming a truly great artist even now... every line, every brush stroke should be in service of finding greatness. That je ne ces quoi you are blessed to see even just once a year in somebody else's art, you must strive to create it for yourself. Art is all about finding that unknowable 'love'. We're all searching for that truly special piece, you have to keep grasping for it. Forever and ever because you know you will never ever find it! And grinding your technical skill should only serve in your efforts to become a visionary!!

Ok, ok... now you can make fun of me. :)

>>3649399
how did you did this effect? what program

>>3649446

This isn't an anime plot line. We're trying to be more than passable here and faggots are gatekeeping their skills.

>>3649450
not him
but it looks like CavePainter 20kBC

>>3649451
>gatekeeping their skills
only tards that can't help themselves think this way. the knowledge is available, you're just too lazy or arrogant to know how to use it. or you're really not supposed to be learning it.

>>3649324
>tons of techniques
Like?

>>3649468
Oh yeah? So why hasnt teal told us how he learned? He just comes in threads randomly to show off and then just says loomis. If his skill was readily available in loomis then /ic/ would be just as good as teal.

face it art is gatekeeping

>>3649481
You guys need to practice more.

>>3649358
But it does follow the same formula of grinding to epics. The progression is just 10x longer than an MMO. It's like end game grinding all the time.

>>3649483
Just practice bro. Everything will come with practice bro.

>>3649354
4chan is hyper critical so they like things that are objective.

>>3649497
Practice drawing life examples of your favorite subjects, copy superior artists who do your favorite subjects and also do your own work with refs (life and favorite artists). With enough hours you will get better.

OP never posted his work. This thread is worthless. He's likely one of those people that draw a hipbone once and move on to the next thing like he has everything all figured out-because no one gave him the context he needed to understand what grinding really is.

>>3649446
OP here, well said.
One thing that comes to mind is that would i have realized these things without going through grinds that may be pointless?

So dead ends might be part of the journey.

I think perhaps, when you need to draw a good eye, grind eyes. etc for each step along the way of completing pieces.

grasping to te very end, the struggle.
die struggling and not having given up.

Ty for the reply.

>>3649598
hey op POST YOUR WORK for fucks sake

>>3650419
post yours.

>>3649429
The truth is that making good art cannot be taught. You can learn the necessary skills and principles to make technically proficient work, but to make something with true and lasting appeal requires an innate sense, a "talent". Art, unfortunately, has become a field rife with the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality. As a result you have people like OP who are constantly frustrated. Art isn't for everyone but people keep saying it is. No other profession seems to have this problem because they never did away with the standards, or at least not to a significant degree.

It's a bitter pill to swallow OP but the sooner you do, the better.

>>3649324
>hes going all out

Well, congratulations. You decided to focus on being "correct" instead of making something interesting.

Good job.

Loomis and other realist bullshit will get you nowhere when it comes to anime. That type of thinking is why most Western artists suck at drawing it

>>3650682
My friend pretends to be Japanese (she's fluent in Jap) and has successfully assimilated into the anime style just fine. You'd they she was a Jap without knowing it's a western pig. In other words, you're a yellow fever faggot.

>>3649358
redpilled. it's why their art is so unappealing too, as they never focus on aesthetics and just on mechanically "grinding"

>>3649291
>hes doing it for the money
insert meme here

>>3650682
pyw faggot

>>3649446
>to become a visionary
You guys aren't called that, already?

>>3649291
Perfect anatomy/proportions/perspective is impossible. Trying to compound all these methods of construction to achieve it is just going to stiffen your work.

The point often enough is not to reproduce perfect figures but to convey ideas with lines, value, and color. You are creating an illusion of something, not an actual recreation. So long as the illusion is convincing enough, you pass. The fundies are to help you get to that point. Once you get there, then design takes precedence, and your work is measured by its aesthetic and ideological appeal rather than its accuracy. Good artists are able to bend or disregard the rules for design.

>>3651402
This. It's art, not mechanical drafting. If you demand that kind of exacting perfection, then I'd suggest architecture or mechanical drawing, where you're dealing with actual dimensions and such. Or realistic 3D animation and sculpting.

Or, just be an anal retentive obsessive compulsive and never finish anything, because you can't rise to an irrational standard of perfection nobody could reach.

This is why you go to art school, so the teacher can get these toxic ideas you learned here out of your brainpan.

>>3649291
You fucked up, anon.
You're grinding thinking if you draw X amount of study, you'll just level up and be ready to draw. However, the books provided aren't teaching you How To Draw, but rather grabbing the shit you currently draw and telling you how to make it better.

You're trying to approach design, which is probably something you avoided for the sake of "mauh fundies". You need a good balance of practicing fundies, and applying it to your work. If you apply none of your studies to your work... well... it was all for nothing, sadly.

Sure it's easy to see errors in other's work. Anyone can do it. But use that ability to see errors within your own work and try to fix those issues.

>>3649481
Teal have been drawing consistently for over 10 years now

OP, you're mistaking something. Something really important.
Consider you average manga chapter from your favorite artist. How much time do you spend reading it? I'd say, probably a few minutes.
Divide those minutes by pages. By panel. Now you realise, each panel will be looked at for a few seconds, at most. So each individual drawing doesn't need to resist a careful examination, it just need to be good enough to not break the flow of reading.

>>3651402
>>3651483
>>3651586
>>3651603

such well said posts, hope in humanity restored a bit.

I find it fucked up that from the begging of my art journey it's been learn some shit, realize everything is a lie and get angry, anger fades over time want to draw, accept the BS and change/ move on.

I think if people focus more on production, like the manga pages example, the end result more than anything else things would go better. who knows.

>>3651623
It's not lies, it's just a change on how we consume art.
I have a brother who went to art school. Since he lived in Paris, it granted him free unlimited access to art museums, Orsay and the Louvres in particular. He often spent time there, but each time he went, he looked at one single piece of art. Each piece there is worth hours and days of study and contemplation. Nowadays, who (beside artists for study) spends more than a few seconds on a single drawing? Masterpieces or not, we're so saturated with art that we don't really analyse it anymore.

>>3649291
studying fundamentals is like going to art school

you shouldn't neglect your personal work

>>3649291
A good artist is one who is great at drawing, a great artist is one who is great at marketing.
When animu artists posts their completed artworks, they spent much less time than you practising their anatomy and box perspective fundies.
Instead, they spent the rest of the time practising colouring, linearting, post-processing, developing an overall style and most importantly, marketing.
Of course they'll suck at perfecting anatomy.

>>3651783
Good point mate, Their work is very appealing for the most part.
The moment you disect the drawings you see flaws everywhere, thus the appeal is enough to distract lol

>>3649291

There's like, a ton of analogies in the thread already.

But fundies are studying formulas and functions to lead you to the solution to your problems.

You need to, however, put yourself in a position to apply them.

Ideally, you need to be drawing the things you want to draw and applying what you're learning to correct your mistakes. Or some variation between the margins.

It's like reading and memorizing plays to learn how to be a good actor but never actually acting at all. You're not getting where you want to be. You're just wasting your time, frankly.

To do the thing you want to do and be good at the thing you want to do, it turns out you have to do the things you want to be doing.

Weird, I know.

>>3651884

This was actually a pretty productive thread.

>>3649343
>Giant horse man without a giant horse cock
Thats the problem.

>>3651196
i'm convinced the only emotion the average /ic/ poster feels is the sheer insignificance of their failure as an artist.

>>3649291
just like how a good musician and composer can no longer listen to music like the average person and notices all the subtle problems you can no longer consume visuals the same way. I say you must realize everything generically labels as an attempt at realism because it looks plausible is false and in reality most artists just want passable realism. Often relying on their own style and assumptions their art is in reality something different entirely.

>>3649291
>No one who grinded the fundamentals would make such simple mistakes
bullshit. the day you'll get your first job, with long hours and short deadlines, you'll realize how easy is not noticing obvious mistakes. it happens to everybody