/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Yes you can use it to learn or study.
Unless you post that traicing or say that you come up with it no one really cares

>>3647958
"tracing does not mean drawing line for line"

what does it mean then?

i think tracing is a useful motivator for when youre at the very start of your journey, when you cant draw for shit and everything you do frustrates you because it looks bad, tracing some good drawings lets you see that you can make something good you just dont have the technique yet. honestly after tracing a couple moving on to copying is an ok way to start out in my book because you learn inarticulable parts of drawing through mimicry. still eventually, no tracing is not a good way to learn and you're better off with still life and photographic reference.

>>3647958
Just see what works and what doesn't for you. Nobody cares what you do behind the scenes, how you learn and progress as long as you're doing it. If tracing benefits you, great.

If you're still at a stage where you have to rely on tracing, then you have a lot more to worry about than whether it's okay to trace or not. You're obviously feeling guilty about it though, so maybe don't trace. Do it the regular way of training your eyes and hands to draw what they see. It's clumsy at first but you will get the hang of it.

Don't make the mistake of analyzing the best methods for learning while never actually getting to the practice part.

>>3647964
>>3647965
>>3647975

All very good responses to think about. Thanks gentlemen. I'll stop myself now before I write a 1000 page manifesto and actually get back to practicing. I have a way too much over analytical brain. One thing >>3647975 I've done training my eye and hand coordination for years now. When I send critique in to professionals they keep saying "my proportions are great buuuuuuuuut this and that, which has every relation to what I'm expecting in said paid content. So clearly I'm fine with observing to a point but everyone has their own system approach that every time I pick up a new one it's relearning ones new ideal system. But the way I see it each reference image is like solving an Algebra equation; everything is already solved but you just have to work into the pre-existing issue to arise to the final solution.

And that in of itself is a skill. Well anyway thanks for your guys responses.

>>3647986
welcome, its possible you're over analysing things in your own work, in the sense that a lot of the time its taking a step back from the image and letting the overall impression sink in that lets you make the marks that solidify it, that give it life or what have you.

then again i still have a lot to learn too, if you're engaged in practice and reading frequently you will get the results you want for sure.

>>3647958
For me tracing is not good because there are lots of other things I could be doing with my time, energy, and materials. I would only trace if this anon >>3647965 says, that I am a beginner that is totally paralyzed with fear that I cannot move my pencil if there was a gun pointed at my head. But even then, I can't say I was ever that scared or ever resorted to tracing, because I was taught that drawing is painful, and painful things are worth it. I bit the towel and drew my shitty art even though I knew it was all fucked up and wrong. Over time the pain and shame became more bearable, and I have to say it is no different from becoming better at hiking a mountain or swimming.

Other than that I cannot say I know of any use to tracing. Perhaps if it was strictly job related. But it is absolutely meritless otherwise. There's no learning, there's no application of yourself, I would even go further and say that tracing is almost honest in a way, because it is the artist saying 'yes, I have no creativity, I have no drive, and I have no tolerance for the uphill battle of making something original, but I want to do the same things that other artists do, so what are you going to do? Shoot me? Fuck you, watch me trace everything."

>>3647958
I think it doesn’t really help you at all. You are better off just looking at something you want to draw or “copy” and just draw it repeatedly throughout the day for a week until it looks okay.

>>3647958
>I know we probably had this thread the other day but hear me out. Is tracing for figure drawing a perfectly valid learning method the pros do not want you to know? I have a long explanation why I suggest this is but rather than type out a 1000 page paragraph and nobody reads it I want your yes/no opinion.

>Is tracing a valid way of learning?
Yes it is, any method that gets you to grab a too land start to draw lines with an orderly fashion and a goal to achieve likeness is valid way to improve. Granted tracing can only improve you in a very short term on a very VERY basic level. It improves only you hand-eye coordination which is good for kids or people with such problem but becomes negligible pretty fast. It aso expands your visual library by making you look at the thing you are tracing for and extended period of time, provided you pay attention to it which usually fades over time.

It does NOT help you improve you ability to create something similar out of nothing which what art is mostly about.

>>3647958
https://twitter.com/animesijyuku/status/1052974288624484352
一番上手くなることはトレス? みんなトレスを軽視し過ぎている。一流のアニメーターは完璧なトレスが出来て他人の技術をドンドン吸収していく。 同じ線を引くことではじめて理解出来る感覚がある。 見てわかった気になるのとなぞって見るのでは大きく違う。

Is tracing the best way to improve?
People underestimate tracing so much. First-class animators can do perfect tracing, which enables them to aborb the skills of others. There is a feeling that can only be understood by drawing the same line. It's one thing to have an illusion of understanding by seeing. Tracing is another.

>>3648101

>because it is the artist saying 'yes, I have no creativity, I have no drive, and I have no tolerance for the uphill battle of making something original, but I want to do the same things that other artists do
For me that's not true at all less I would have quit this whole art thing a long time ago. I'm just getting older and at this rate I've been looking to ways to optimize the learning process.

I point to a teacher for example, Karl Gnass (hope I spelled that right) who mentions the "ideal figure" of proportion. Each master has his or her own ideal proportion and every time I learn under a different artist it's relearning a completely different system. So many times you'll see beginner artists draw nude figures in space as observational practice and the get the figure system they're learning under completely off because they're still using conventional techniques they've learned elsewhere. So much time, we're talking years, can be cut from this frustrating pattern by tracing over imagery to deconstruct its components.

Where as in imagination, you can spend all the points learning from tracing to constructing using boxes. A box has no ambiguity like the conventional methods found in Hampton/Vilppu/etc and confidence increases because you are more well equipped with anatomical knowledge.

A better way to see what I mean is through a pie chart maybe I'll make one.
>>3648266
Nice. By the way is this guys book scanned yet?

>>3648279
Yeah, >>/ic/thread/S3637443#p3642421

>>3648283
Damn anons are fast. Thanks.

>>OP
I'm a total noob too, but I don't feel the urge to trace. And at the same time it's strange to condemn anyone for any technique they use. I believe tracing may be a bit useful, but only a bit.

>>3647975
God's advice.