/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3585059
probably, you should draw from life if possible. 2d to 2d is copying, 3d to 2d requires processing so you remember it better.

seeing as you're talking about poses though i have a horrible feeling you're going about it completely wrong.

>>3585061
I just want to draw dogs, cats, squirrels, martens and other animals but I doubt I can get life models of them, besides one squirrel and weasel full body taxidermy I own, plus a few skulls like a ferret's. I'm too poor get anymore. I won't be getting any pets for the next couple years. Is all hope lost?

>>3585067
fuck life models. shits a mem.

and there is a HUGE audience interest in ironical pet portraits. if you're trying to be appealing to cute 20 something young professional women, get into pet portraiture.

I sux dix at it and hate fur but there's market demand for dayz.

>>3585073
Why is that guy's paintings a forced meme all of a sudden? Anyway, I'm not trying to appeal to anyone but myself, (there always has and will be an audience into my work anyway so for now I'm not paying attention to others), I just want to draw animals better but lack real life models of the correct mammals I need to learn the anatomy from.

>>3585077
>there always has and will be an audience into my work anyway so for now I'm not paying attention to others
way 2 be
>Why is that guy's paintings a forced meme all of a sudden?
fucking eat it

>>3585067
lets see some work, for diagnosis

>>3585085
Alright, I'll make a small compilation of some sketches and studies.

>>3585059
>I see many say "just draw what you see, not what you think you see"
You either worded that wrong, or you just saw bs advice.
It's the other way around.

You have to -understand- what you see in order to draw it properly.

>>3585059
>Is a meme?
Yes
>Is just a meme?
No

>>3585059
this applies to a child who symbol draws.
they draw a simplified representation of whats in front of them.
not what theyre actually seeing. its to teach them how to see.
this will get you to the point where you can replicate whats in front of you. but the next step is being able to draw whats not in front of you. this is why u need to understand form.

>>3585105
I see. That makes sense, thanks for explaining.

>>3585085
Here you go. Various random sketches.

>>3585111
Thanks for the elaboration, anon. That's helpful.

>>3585116
>>3585114
are you just drawing what you see, or can you draw it from different angles, ie do you understand what youre looking at enough.
if you can do that then you just need to polish up your technique. if not, you need to do some serious simplification. pic realted.

>>3585121
Half are drawn from pictures, yeah. I've learned to draw human anatomy from memory from various angles, I'm more new to animals, so I can't draw more unique angles from memory. I have trouble simplifying shapes if it's not a generic simple angle like the front or side view with a basic pose.

>>3585067
Before you take >>3585073 advice look at the picture attached. He has no understanding of anatomy form or how to handle a painting. Try to work from life whenever you can. If you need photos of animals you should take them yourself at a local zoo.

>>3585163
>Before you take >>3585073 advice look at the picture attached.
Bit of an ad hominem coming from someone with NO picture attached. What is your understanding of "anatomy form or how to handle a painting?"
>If you need photos of animals you should take them yourself at a local zoo.
Or, now just hear me out, you just DONT create a bunch of arbitrary or unnecessary barriers to entry for doing studies.

I'm not saying DONT try to draw from life as much as possible if that's your meme, but I'm absolutely saying that there is no reason that with today's technology you couldn't fucking practice drawing animals all goddamn day for free.

>>3585121
do a cheetah meme

>>3585163
I am too poor to go see zoos, they're also too far away since I live in a tiny city. Where I live, it's very expensive to go to zoos anyway. Still, thank you anon, I'll try drawing more from my taxidermy... The few I do have... Would 3d models online count as a replacement for most irl model drawing? Where you can rotate the virtual model and see everything.

>>3585067
like you could do pet paintings of annoying animals that parody famous paintings about inescapable death lol

>>3585073
>>3585080
>>3585172
Go away Jimmy

>>3585067
Pretend to use your phone & grab pictures of dogs out walking, that's what I do. I take candid pics of people walking their dogs in case I need to add them into a landscape I paint, at a later point.

>>3585059
you are confusing two massively different artistic efforts by conflating imagination drawing with fine art. drawing what you see is part of artistic expression. imagination drawing is mainly for cartoons. the problem is you haven't learned much about art, not bothered to think much on it, and just defaulted to your comfort zone.

it's way more beneficial for beginners to be studying art and getting in touch with how their brains work. otherwise you get this kind of mess of grasping for advise in all the wrong places and no actual learning can happen.

>>3585238
Besides cartoons, what else can imagination drawing be? I don't want to rely from photographs to draw photocopies, it is not my thing. I prefer learning anatomy of various animals because I want to draw various animals from imagination, doing various things I can think of, maybe even make animal characters. What does that make me?

And how am I sticking to my comfort zone? I draw various animals, even if it's hard to learn some. I draw statues too. I see you may have made some good points but I cannot fully comprehend everything stated, so I just want some clarification.

>>3585262
you will never have enough information to create from imagination without it looking like a cartoon or some tacky abstract. everything else requires detailed observation or expressionism.

you can remain in your comfort zone while still feeling challenged. the point isn't learning new information to fit into your preconceptions, but continually finding a way to escape them. which is closer to the tradition of drawing what you see,

>>3585300
>you will never have enough information to create from imagination without it looking like a cartoon or some tacky abstract.
What do you mean by tacky abstract? Also I'd have so generally disagree, I know several people who can draw certain animals entirely from memory, and I mean ones with very realistic and detailed anatomy. There's one girl I know who used to draw dogs with all their major leg muscles having a bit of detail. If you draw a million of dogs or rabbits, you eventually can learn to draw them from memory very well.

>>3585329
ok, so what's the question here. you seem to already know what you want. just memorize whatever you fancy by drawing it ten thousand times. you'll be very good at drawing stiff crap no one cares about. and any time you want to flex your imagination you'll be left without the proper resources. given you haven't studied anything else the tacky abstracts/ amateur cartoons are the only things you *can* do without study. it's not debatable or something of opinion. it's how knowledge works, unless you came into this world with an innate grasp of reality. artsy/poetry/context can make or break a piece but that too requires some level of awareness.

>>3585340
Alright, but then how are people able to draw animals and people with fluid gestures and poses? How do they eventually also learn to draw something from memory without making it look stiff while still keeping good anatomy?

Also post your work, I'm curious now.

>>3585108
>>3585059
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h4-2HRHaHI
what's the history of that video? how could he make something so crappy having so much experience ffs

>>3585381
>fluid gestures and poses
exactly that, you study gesture and poses, which is among the most difficult things in drawing when you're first starting out. there is an actual grammar that connects the visual world to all the other aspects of life. energy, weight, emotion, and so forth.

>draw something from memory without making it look stiff
once you understand gesture and you know the anatomy it's a few steps short of making a toy puppet dance the way you want it. the real difficulty comes when you add more layers of action in rendering, style, poetic devices, symbolism, and so on.

>>3585394
Essencially we both had the same view, I was just very confused by your wording previously. Who would of known. Thanks for the elaboration by the way. Would you not mind posting some of your own work though?

>>3585486
i would mind considering the kind of people who lurk and troll this board. just assume my work is bad like everyone else's here and take my words as they are.

>>3585059
It's only a meme if it's not what you are aiming for, there are different routes you can take when learning to draw, if you decide to draw only when surrounding yourself with tonnes of references that you constantly refer to while drawing, to the point where you are more copying than using something to refer to, then like proko, you can create something with all these aids but will draw like a total caveman if someone slaps a piece of paper in front of you and asks you to draw un-aided, if this is what you are after then "just draw what you see" is pretty sound advice. If you go the route of learning construction, silhouette and rotating things in perspective, then your method of drawing will be completely different. Whichever route you take, there will be someone from the other side condemning you're way of learning and calling it a meme.

>>3585499
copyists can't condemn anyone because they're pants on head retarded from never learning anything. not all routes are relatively equivalent when compared from the inside or outside.

>>3585504
totally agree

>>3585059
I have asked questions about drawing process and progressing in art to a few artists I know of, some of them are strangers I asked on sites like tumblr, others i have chatted with directly on stuff like discord. All these were intermediate level (AKA not pro but enough to make money off their art and some even get a minor job in the industry)
The majority of them, when asked about their habits/progress replied
>i barely do any studies cause I am lazy/they bore me
>i just draw
so if you ask me the best method is to draw whatever you want then use ref/do studies to patch up the mistakes
I believe tehmeh said this in that one famous post of his, and he's a bonafied industry pro

>>3585391
Human xerox machine.
He probably had a really bad day too.

>>3585489
That's why I never share actual serious work here, only sketch studies since they aren't personal and idc about them.

>>3585499
Thanks a lot of elaborating, anon.

>If you go the route of learning construction, silhouette and rotating things in perspective, then your method of drawing will be completely different
I'm that, how should I go about studying then? Drawings from pictures has helped me improve and I've improved my anatomy from memory in general, but I'd imagine there's better methods that'd help improve faster, perhaps?

>>3585504
>copyists can't condemn anyone
>not all routes are relatively equivalent when compared from the inside or outside.
I agree with you wholly.

>>3585943
>I'm that, how should I go about studying then?
If you haven't already, I would suggest practicing with silhouettes first, if you want to draw purely from imagination, then using silhouettes forces you to use perspective and construction in order to make sense of it. Once you understand why it's important, you can ditch silhouettes entirely and use lines to get the same results, but it's an important stepping stone. for example, instead of committing every possible turning degree and perspective of an arm or whatever to memory and painstakingly attempt to latch it on to a torso you've already drawn, just make a vague shape in space that the arm will occupy that reads well, and you can add small details or contour lines to make it look 3d, it's almost like looking up at a cloud and using your imagination to see an object, except now you need to make marks to tell the audience what it is you see.

Vid related and he has other videos that go more in depth https://youtu.be/hrA8fLj0KB8?t=6m23s

>>3586047
Here's an example of what I mean, I imagine cones to tell me where the lines are in space, then I use broken lines to make shapes and i'm thinking of the overall silhouette while taking the perspective into account, I imagine arrows at each end of every broken line, to tell me if it is coming towards me, away from me or in whatever direction. I'm not good at anatomy but the point is if you can't make random forms in 3D space, then don't expect to be able to construct anatomy in 3D space either no matter how long you've studied or memorized it. It's a different skill.

>>3586144
Thanks for the detailed explanation, anon.