/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

yes , any non retarded person knows that you can draw left with just basics

Nah, I agree. Though I think for the left something more interesting like hekoko, nanban, attal, yoshinari, nurzhan, should be put there because they would probably have better design sense and colors. Left is possible with basic to intermediate fundies.

I kinda disagree with the "full skeleton" part.

Yes, it's extremely important to know anatomy, but being able to draw a 100% accurate skeleton is overkill in my opinion. And you should feel bad for having this skill and wasting it with generic anime bullshit.

>>3551201
There's a middle ground. Like first anon said, you can draw left with "just basics", though it depends on what we consider just basics. The skeleton is just a meme though, I doubt it's needed on most people's drawings.

I can't draw from memory something THAT good like your pic on the right, talking about the man. But I can do the basic shape and kinda learned how to do the torso in just 1 day; it's all about learning where pecs are located and that the last set of abs starts at the belly button.

So.. yeah just study """anatomy""" for 1 or 2 days, draw a few nude models posing for an hour to cement your knowledge, and I think you're good to go for the left drawing. Of course your faces may look iffy but you perfect them with practice, and while drawing anatomy you probably discovered already that badly-drawn realistic faces look like anime. At least that happened to me.


But I may be full of shit. I'm not interested in drawing attractive anime girls, I just want guys doing martial arts so maybe my advice won't work since it's way easier to just learn to draw the vitruvian man and greek gods and use that knowledge for action manga, I may be shit at makiing something you want to fap to.

>>3551201
if you spend a million hours practicing the left, you'll eventually perfect it, but be completely unable to do the right
spend half a million practicing the right, and the left comes almost naturally

>>3551219
nice meme
if you draw muscles and cubes all day you'll be good at drawing muscles and cubes

>>3551201
It's best to know your fundies before you branch out and/or start imitating a style such as anime. Important to know what makes a piece balanced/proportional above all else, imo

>>3551219
Post your work

>>3551219
Have you ever watched a realism artist try to draw anime? Its pretty funny to be honest desu

>>3551242
>entire human body in various different poses wearing various articles of clothing
the left is just the right dumbed down with stylized faces
>people actually draw boxes
I feel bad for begs who think this does anything

>>3551260
>I feel bad for begs who think this does anything
draw me a box in 5 point perspective anon.

>>3551258
I dunno man, I tried to draw as realistically as possible some models and what I got is pretty animey-looking I think. I can imagine just trying to draw real girls and ending up witht anime-looking woman, then you'd just need to stylize their heads a bit more into anime style and you're done.

>>3551201
No, this board is full of idiots who are too afraid to draw anything else before they've spent ten years drawing boxes.

>>3551270
This is why you wait til you have at least 6k followers before you start trying to win arguments with your art.

>>3551219
If this was true there would be more atelier artists dominating the lucrative animation and videogame industries and less graphic designers drawing good anatomical studies despite not having a formal arts training.

Design is the backbone of stylization. If you don't learn design in itself you'll never draw good anime no matter how good you are at anatomy.

>>3551279
But what does learning design entail then? Learning about boxes and perspective and proportions and color? I think dominating that would indeed help you make cute anime girls since they have their own style anyway it's all about transforming real references into that.

The knowledge to do anime faces and pretty clothes won't come from studying anatomy definitely.

I draw boxes. Please help what am I supposed to be doing instead? When I draw people it doesn't feel like I'm learning anything because the process is so long and is incorrectly done from the start.

The anatomy of anime girls are so simplified and stylized its pretty much competely irrelevant to actual human anatomy.
Proportions and form is still important, but anatomy is secondary

>>3551290
If this isn't a joke, drawing boxes was intended to help you with perspective and mastery over the process of drawing, by getting used to the most basic form. I think. I didn't actually grind boxes.

To draw humans now go practice drawing actual people here https://line-of-action.com/practice-tools/figure-drawing/
set it to 2 minutes per nude model and try to just draw the outline of the pose to see how good you do it. After a while you set it to 5 minutes, and then 10 minutes to see how much of it you can represent in those time frames.

An entire hour grinding poses like that should be fun and help you get humans right.

Probably not, but it's summer and idiots flock to this board like a swarm of cicadas.

>>3551242
its not bad practice to do cube practice to really force your perspective ability.

if you practice focusing on individual body parts it helps.

if you practice different angles for faces and objects and bodies it helps.

if you practice drawings from artists you like and pay attention at how they differ from real life, you will learn their style and you can emulate it easily.

its called studying

>>3551270
is this some advanced trolling attempt. if it is you got me. if not your art is dogshit.

>>3551302
>>3551277
I just started drawing bro calm down, it wasn't meant to impress you my point was that half-baked realism ends up looking like manga/anime. So yes, if you keep trying to draw real women, your training will also help you do anime women with some tweaks.

>>3551307
If that's what anime looks like to you, I have bad news for you anon.

you're never, ever, going to make it, not even on deviant art.

>>3551300
>if you practice drawings from artists you like and pay attention at how they differ from real life, you will learn their style and you can emulate it easily.

in other words if you do something other than just drawing muscles and boxes you wont be limited to drawing muscles and boxes

glad you agree with me

>>3551201
Wish I knew how to draw any of this. I can’t draw human proportions worth a shit and any sort of anime I draw looks like cringy deviant art garbage.

>>3551219
I kind of understand what this anon is trying to say but he worded it in such a way that it seems completely retarded

>>3551313
Its kind of a dumb way to say anything.
If you draw nothing but landscapes, but get to a master level at it, you'll be able to transition to pretty much anything else easily as well, because you already mastered the majority of the fundamentals, being form, perspective, color theory, etc.

>>3551279
>animation
>lucrative

>>3551263
>drawing a box in 5 point perspective
>not drawing inverted icosahedrons in 7 point perspective with 9dimensional hypershadows cast on non-euclidian planes
LEL, ngmi

You start studying anatomy thinking you'll do anime girls, then realize how much funner drawings muscled bodies is and do pic related forever

>>3551325
Why bother when I just want to draw cute dorks being dorks?

>>3551219
Absolute bullshit, you need to practise both at the same time. I've started by doing only anatomy and gesture studies and had a really tough time deviating even a little bit from realistic proportions.

>>3551327
Just look at that. You can't convince me the artist drew a body under those clothes and the bodyparts are just geometric figures. Whoever did this got rich without studying anatomy for years like /ic/ suggests.

>>3551333
On the other hand I doubt artists like hush didn't study anatomy for a long time, but muscled bodies are still lame

>>3551258
>draw body
>put 3/4 meme head on said body
You really can't fuck it up

>>3551338
I guarantee if any "good" artist did this it would look like shit and be extremely obvious it was drawn by a westerner.

>>3551336
>muscled bodies are still lame
Well, that's, just, like, your opinion, dude.

>>3551201
Knowing the basics of the right, will help with the left. But people forget that drawing from imagination, and creativity is a skill you need to train in itself.

So if you want to draw good anime, you need practice drawing from imagination, creativity (character design, fashion, composition, etc.), and learn the proportions that make up the anime figure. This should be easier to learn if you already have drawing skills like the right.

>>3551310
yeah my post is in defense of learning from actual skilled anime artists. not 90s USA tier ones

>>3551279
>Design is the backbone of stylization. If you don't learn design in itself you'll never draw good anime no matter how good you are at anatomy.

Please put this in the sticky of every future /alt/ and /anime/ thread on ic until the end of 4chan itself. No one on ic seems to understand this.
The best anatomy in the world won't get you good looking anime if you don't understand what to simplify, what to exaggerate, and what to draw realistically. Nearly every Westerner doing anime always has the same problem- they place too much detail, and usually in the wrong places.
I agree with OP's pic to a certain extent, you can tell apart anime artists who know their human anatomy from those who don't with a glance, and you can guess which always looks better. But if you NEVER practice anime, it will not come naturally to you. You have to learn to design it and make it look appealing.

>>3551370
Excuse me but did you just imply anime takes any skill, talent, knowledge, experience, or specialization whatsoever? Um, didn't you know that's not allowed on /ic/?

That's a prohibited opinion. Only shitting on anime every second of every day is allowed here. I'm going to have to ask you to delete your post.

>>3551448
this x1000

>>3551201
I mean, it is a fact that the person who drew the anime on the left can not draw that figure study on the right. So aren't you objectively wrong?

>>3551464
post your work

>>3551333
Wrong. Pretty much any professional mangaka is better at anatomy and drawing the human figure than you are. Just look at 0033s manga work. It's super cutesy and simple just like that page you quoted, yet the guy has internalized human anatomy on a level that someone like you couldn't even dream of. Beginners simply can't see anatomy knowledge unless it's a naked body with preferably heavily shaded muscles. If it's a softer figure in clothes, you get completely lost, thinking the guy must be as much of a hack as you are.

>>3551466
For what purpose? Do you disagree with my statement? Do you actually believe that ANY artist who can draw mediocre anime is also a master figure artist who could easily draw like a top tier Repin Academy graduate? How much of a fucking weeb are you?

>>3551473
It's just in vogue to shit on everything about anime ever since 4chan went turbo normie around 2012

Normies showed up and totally misunderstood the concept of bashing weeaboos, and thought /a/nons attacking the retards running around in naruto headbands meant that all anime and anime fans was totally irredeemable. Sad tbqh

>>3551242
t. trying to justify "muh style"

>>3551509
Keep telling yourself that cubefag
I'm sure if you keep drawing boxes one day your art will suddenly be appeal ling

>>3551201
It's factually wrong, because the actual artist on the left side wouldn't be able to produce something like the right side and vice versa

>>3551336
This is cute.

>>3551201
I agrre somewhat. It mostly depends on what type of anime you want to draw. If its a fighting anime where youre gonna be showing a lot of muscles then you really have to learn a lot of anatomy, but if its just moe kawaii desu anime you just need to know the basics.

Most people think its really easy to draw anime, but the truth is its really not. There are a lot of small details and nuances that takes years of study to get anime to look right.

>>3551219
Wrong anon. If you draw only like the left drawing the right will be hard for you. Same goes for the right.

>>3551448
This desu.

>>3551258
get the fuck out

>>3551733
His animu faces are terrible.

>>3551735
post work

>>3551258
uh

>>3551733
This doesnt show me anything but that the artist can draw in both styles. Knowledge of anatomy =/= knowledge of drawing anime. That artist had to learn to draw in both styles seperatley in order to make either of them look good. Its like how being a good oil painter doesnt automatically make you a good watercolor painter. You still have to learn how to paint water color from the begininning in order to be good at it.

>>3551735
There are things not even a master can fix.

I am pretty sure that this was just a joke

Pic unrelated

>>3551201

no. because you're mostly right.

>>3551201
This is a field where people routinely invest decades of their lives.

Buyer's remorse is a thing. Everyone wants to believe that how THEY invested those years is the ideal, the alternative would be that they wasted years of their life... obviously they're very attached to it and thinks EVERYONE MUST follow that method to get to where they are, even if it's a decade-long detour from where that person actually wants to be.

To learn anime you don't need to learn classical landscape painting or greek sculpture anatomy or western cartoon animation... you need to learn anime. This makes people who spent decades studying classical art just to watch people pumping out weebshit softcore porn that gets way more attention angry, and being angry doesn't make you right.

>>3551201
This is 100% false, anime is easy to draw. You're a retarded person

>>3551201
Yes, you've been meme'd by muh boxes and fundie crabs.

The direction the light is coming from is inconsistent in left drawing. There is a shadow on top of the yellow sock, but right next to it on the black socks, the shadow is cast downward. Artist who drew left needs to render their fundementals more.

>>3551897
>>3551972
>>3551987
LEL
Good, good, crabs. Enjoy your flat figures with inconsistent anatomy and symbol drawing.

>>3552117
I would say enjoy never actually drawing anything but you're probably already doing that.

>>3552107
top tier autism

>>3552107
Her socks are just wet, nerd.

I thought it was a meme too until I kept seeing my favorite pixiv artists do these decent studies of irl people.

sauce is 三澤 寛志 on pixiv

>>3552107
>what is ambient occlusion

>>3552107
>"but light are shadow come from bottom of foot?"

>>3551735
>no matter how good you get at drawing you will always draw shitty western anime face
My life ended before it even began.

>>3552428
How does one overcome this? Seriously. Is it something in the water? Japanese people can do legitimate anime-looking stuff, but somehow it's x40 harder for westerners to do it. You can almost always spot that it wasn't made by a real nip. I guess it's symbol drawing? The nips feel it but the westies try to emulate it?

Of course the 5% top americans can do anime, but most of the time I get the feeling that we get pic related.

>>3551201
I agree with that image, but only because of my high IQ. Here is how to understand what the image is trying to say if you have a low IQ:

In order to draft appealing figures from memory, you have to be able to MAKE such memories in the form of doing studies that detail "what you're looking for / most interested in" ... the BEST anime is the best because of how much implies the details found in real humans, so figure draw from life, eat anatomy books, and you will be able to connect a nebulous preference for a certain style with the inclusion or exclusion of certain details in IRL people and things.

My main issue is the artist on the right would actually do anime better than the artist on the left... in theory this is true but it's misleading because if you could draw as well as right you'd be much better than left

>>3552428
>>3552492
Wait are you saying that >>3551733 was draw by a westerner? because apparently the guy is japanese

>>3552492
2 things
1. most western artists who try to anime are either garbage, or are making stand alone pieces which will have more detail than your typical animu splash art. anyone good enough to do the anime style typically gets bored of the anime style and moves on to their own, more detailed, style.

2. exposure. asians are exposed to anime everywhere they go. its in ads, its on tv. its on happy meals. their school books have it. the style is just shoved in their face everywhere they go. this naturalizes the style to them and they'll naturally be more accustomed to the variations within the styles as well as what typically looks appealing. As opposed to being exposed to it solely through popular anime.

>>3552521
>>3552492 here, I wasn't criticizing that work it looks japanese as hell. But it's true that a lot of times you can feel when a westerner tried to draw anime.

>>3551972
Most anime is just deformed, alien heads on top of realistic bodies so its just about as easy as drawing regular humans

>>3551746
fucking kek

>>3552526
I see what you mean

>>3552525
This. You also have to realize that art teachers will teach an East Asian ideal, with resources mostly from their own country. We don’t realize how much our teachers and art books influence us even with simple things like the ideal human porportion.

>>3551260
whats wrong about drawing basic shapes? theyre your building blocks for advanced construction so being able to draw a cube or cylinder from any angle seems useful

>>3552597
This. I actually felt my ability improved once I started using asian references and models as opposed to whatever human popped up. I wish there were more japanese model only resources available.

>>3552627
Too much time spent on the basics will hurt you if you never move on. Draw the cube and move on.

>>3552492
>DESIGN
>E
>S
>I
>G
>N

>>3552631
this. i experienced it first hand since i was absolutely adamant about learning anatomy. i have very accurate bodies but i didnt touch up on: proportion, foreshortening, and perspective. now everything i draw looks mostly stiff, very accurate, yet also very boring.

>>3552630
asian models huh. no fucking wonder. ive been using fucking american women and therefore my fucking lolis are always too "mature" because ive been using the fuckin WRONG MODELS.

>>3552597
>simple things like the ideal human porportion.
I know different cultures have different "ideals" but do Asian art books not have the Loomis model aka 8 head measurements as their basic measure in their books? Wtf is the Loomis of Japanese/Korean/Chinese art fundamentals anyway?
It never occurred to me that they may have been taught completed different fundamentals to begin with.

>>3552833
I don't know how prominent it is but I have a how to draw book in japanese and found a page that is closest to the eight head measurement. It is on page 76 of 170 though so I assume they just eyeball it.

>>3552843
Here's another.

>>3551201
>be me
>art school year 4 now
>learned anatomy even before that, bro was in med school and father is artist
>grind on anatomy, sucked for quite a while
>finally learn it
Yes, I can confirm, my "cartoon characters" looked like shit until I learned the rules and was
able to decide which ones to follow and which not to follow in order to create a proper aesthetically pleasing cartoon character.
I am not perfect, but practice makes better.

>>3551212
it is easy to draw skeletons tho, just remember 3-4 main numbers a.k.a ribs, spine and a few joint bones in arms and legs.
But yea, knowing a full skeleton from head is not a necessity.

>>3552849
and another

>>3552107
>mfw the light is coming from the perspective of the POW
>mfw anon is autistic

>>3552857
The skull is important to know IMO, the face makes a lot of sense if you draw a skull and then stretch skin over it.

>>3552886
Yea, that is very important.
Forgot to mention it.
I always construct skeletons under my drawings.
The face is my kink in drawing so I tend to love that part.

>>3552890
Not always, but quite often when drawing figures"
you know what I meant anon

>>3552428
You can learn how to draw cute anime faces. It will just take 1000 hours.

>>3551309
>guy uses critical thinking to form a semi-valid point about a hobby he JUST got into
>"LMFAO BRO THAT DRAWING THOOO YOU'RE LITERALLY NEVER GOING TO IMPROVE"
Fuck outta here, retarded crab.

>>3551201

Isn't the argument basically "To be able to make good shit, you must first be able to make good shit"?

>>3551219
Wrong
I can write a book about how wrong this post is, but neither of us have the time.
Suffice it to say that too many people assume that getting really good at realism will magically make them good at stylization, which is false, and results in those half-anime abortions like that "How to Draw Anime" Udemy course that gets shitposted here sometimes

>>3551448
Anon, this will get cropped to my pc for future generations to remember.

>>3552935
>draws shit
>adds japanese kana to it
>t-totally just like anime r-right bros
>a-anime is just bad realism, r-right

>>3551746
What was the name of this guy again? I could use a laugh.

>>3552492
They didn't even try to make it japanese to begin with, because they are not even interested. Your pic celarly inspired by western style cartoons. Actually search pixiv and you will find hundreds of westerners that draw legit animu

>>3551746
ftfy

>>3553352
who this?

>>3552630
This is literally the secret. If you want to draw anime quit using pics of white girls to study. Cute asian girls are literally the closet thing to 3d anime there is and share more similarities (large eyes, round faces, short flat noses, small frames)

>>3553357
https://web.archive.org/web/20130928100935/http://minami-nyan.deviantart.com

>>3551201
You need to be ottermode to hug an animu girl? Guess I better start working out

>>3553335
The guy who drew the thing on the left? Proko, I think.

>>3553354
much better now!

>>3553370
is she dead?

>>3553361
I want to love her tenderly

>>3553391
deleted all social media due to r9k and pajeet stalkers

>>3553397
Damn that's a shame. Liked some of those, would be cool to see where she's at now.

>>3553397
She came back but isn't very active
https://www.instagram.com/smthnghappens/
https://www.instagram.com/vivecthegod/

>>3553396
Life is cruel

>>3553405
IMAGINE

>>3553397
But why? That’s exactly what social media is for.

>>3551201
The thing is, if you can do the right, you can do the left. Not the opposite. Whenever you see a manga where the mangaka didn't study the fundamentals enough you can tell. But the mangaka who did make some of the best beautiful stuff out there. Compare the dude who draws Ajin to the dude who draws Shingeki no kyojin. It's so obvious who studied the fundamentals, and even though SnK is more popular, it's less nice to look at and just has a good story.

>>3552843
>>3552849
>>3552865
Am i retarded? Yes. But those are 7 heads... A real human being is also like 7,5 heads so the tilt ads the half.

>>3553982
You realise these are asians right?

>>3553987
It's about proportions right? Proportions stay the same no matter how tall you are, considering tall people should have bigger heads.

>>3553982
People who do sketches for fashion and stuff like that use fucking 9 heads, anon. Is just a question of aesthetic, not actually realism.

>>3554005
Not necessarily.
There's short people with 7 heads tall proportions and short people with 5.5 heads tall proportions. There's tall people with 7 heads tall proportions and tall people with 8.5 heads tall proportions.

And using proportion canons, ironically, is stylization. You're not copying reality, you're designing (or most likely following since most people in /ic/ seem to think design is a sinful word) a style guide to follow for your human bodies.

>>3551448
How do I learn design?

>>3555559
Read.

>>3555728
read what?

>>3555559
Design is a tricky subject to learn because it isn't something as objective fundamentals. We know what a face is suppose to look like, we know what bones and muscles compose, we can measure the features and have real life references to base our drawings.

HOW you choose to draw that face, however, is up to you. What shapes you use for the shape of the head, the eyes, etc. How far apart or how close you make the eyes, the nose, mouth. If you're learning anime, find your favorite anime artists. Choose your favorite 5, preferably 3 artists. Study how they draw. Look at their proportions, shapes, line quality, color choice. Observe how they stylize and simplify the human body in order to learn how you can stylize and simplify the human body.

>>3556481
Ask /gd/

>>3551201
this picture is and always will be bait
if you agree with this, you're a newb, or you're baiting.
anyone responding to op with any sincerity has been baited.

>>3557100
OP here, how the fuck did you know that I'm worse than /beg/ tier?