/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3510793
drawing anything is always better than drawing nothing. Godspeed anon.

probably happened because you turned your brain on while "just drawing" and had it off when you were mindlessly copying (not studying)

>>3510793
The grinding mentality is the ultimate meme. Excellent way to fill your art with bad habits you have to unlearn later while simultaneously making you hate drawing.

>>3510793
How cute is Midna?

>>3510804

that pic is a bad meme

>>3510809
>he doesn't know

>>3510793
More like you brain finally started to understand and put in practice everything you grinded and learned through tears and sweat

>>3510793
Is that picture yours?

>>3510793
>You're here forever

>>3510793

post your work and also post the work of you're mom

XD

>>3510848
You might be right about that.
Upon creating my own characters from memory, I tend to think back about what someone said in a lecture and apply it to my work.

Though, the idea of copying is just very uninteresting to me. Not because it's difficult or repetitive, but because I feel I learn nothing from it for now. The failures from my imagination drawings feel so much better than doing my studies. A lot more fun and it feels like I'm exercising my brain during the processes, having to close my eyes and seeing my references within my head.

>>3510804

>Be me.

As opposed to who?

>>3510902
I love how all the construction lines make the right drawing hard but it's actually easy as fuck

>>3510911
.your mum

>>3510911
yourself

>>3510804
>bad habits
is the worst meme desu senpai.

The idea behind grinding is that you learn to be able to do the things you need to do, not that you can understand a figure or something.
Drawing lines a lot makes you able to draw good lines. Painting a lot helps you understand how paint works and what looks good. Doing gestures means you become good at doing gestures. You can't do these things badly and bad habits won't be learned because you shouldn't be drawing from habit. You should be making intelligent decisions about why you do certain things, if you're drawing from habit you're drawing wrong.

>>3510925
I seriously hope no one actually follows this post.

>>3510793
So are you going to post your work or are we going to just have to believe that you got good?

>>3510798
This.
Good to see people succeeding in this board.
Hope I meet up there sometime soon too, anon.

>>3510942

>People ever posting work when hey brag.

>>3510942
>Crab post

Not like it matters if OP will post work or not. He's not saying anything new/different that anyone else can tell you. Shut up and just draw, anon.

>just draw
Most of /ic/ has downloaded all the relevant art books, they just don't put in the time to actually get through the content, it's a lot of mileage needed. It takes time to become experienced in what you study, you don't read it once and learn it because it doesn't stick after just one reading, it's a lifelong pursuit

>loomis/sticky
If you haven't found all the requisite books and key knowledge on HOW to learn, this is what this advice is for. It's very basic information that is best explained by people like Loomis

>neuroplasticity
bullshit pseudoscience, many people give up learning because they get into a comfortable routine and don't desire more knowledge. You need to have a mindset for learning

>you must be able to draw realistically before anime
All stylization is created from reality, understand why anime noses are triangles and you will be able to draw them better, without this deep understanding, you are just copying the surface and you will suck

>post your work
Posting your work is a surefire way to prove that you know your shit and your advice is valid, but many points are valid regardless of whoever said it, the proof is in the logic of the comment and if you take the time to read it and think about it, you will see that it is true.

>Digital vs traditional
no rules, just tools

TL;DR
There are no memes on /ic/

>>3511029
Good post

>>3511029
to go even further...

>RuanJia
His rendering is appealing, that's why people like him

>Sakimichan
His art is very formulaic and popular, it's more focussed on business than art

>Murata
He's the not best, he's just the most popular because of One Punch Man, for many, he's the only anime artist people really know about

>anime is bad
Drawing anime is fine, it's just bad to start drawing before you understand realism, as explained in the previous points, it leads to bad habits like drawing pointy chins and oversized eyes, that have to be unlearned if you ever want to git gud

>Modern art/abstract art
/ic/ is a critique board for representational art, it's not our specialty

>westerners can't draw anime
They can, you just don't see the good ones because you think they're japanese and you think the bad japanese ones are westerners

>FZD
he's more focussed on working for clients than art, this is fine

>>3511029
>>3511040
legit this ^
just draw is not a meme.

>>3511040

Whatever I dunno, there's alot of shit on /ic/, I don't know if this is a recent thing or if it's always been here and I haven't noticed but it really doesn't take much mental effort to tell what's bullshit and what's not.
A beginner can probably pick up on the obvious sarcasm in shitposts that appear in every thread.
If you just read through Loomis and watch some of Proko's videos you'll have a solid foundation for knowing how to learn.
If you can't do that, you're really not gonna make it..

>>3511045
It's really easy to dismiss comments that are overused but there really aren't any hardcore memes on /ic/, all of them has some kind of basis in actually helping people. The few that are total bullshit aren't even worth mentioning because any beginner with half a brain can see them for what they are.

If you want to get good, /ic/ is really good place filled with excellent resources and a great attitude against handholding.
It's really frustrating trying to get people to visit /ic/ and respect it when they think it's bullshit shitposting

I wish people were more focussed on putting effort into their own lives more and would stop expecting things to fall into their lap

>>3511040
>murata
range murata is good too, even if the girls kinda look like aliens. I know the OPM murata gets all the attention, but I like range too.

>>3511052
I'm pretty confident that save for beginners who just showed up, most artists on /ic/ have downloaded all the relevant resources (and you know exactly what they are) and gone through a few of them.
They know how to study all the fundamentals and that it is the combination of those fundamentals under an appealing style and directed idea for an image that makes good art.
This stuff isn't hard to figure out. Nobody is falling for these memes that come off as bad advice, everyone either ignores them or calls them out as bullshit.
Most people here won't git gud not because they have some sort of genetic flaw, they're individuals that have their own life and they move on or just don't care about it after awhile.

Every word I've said is stuff everyone already knows
There's not really anything wrong with /ic/. If the shitposting drives people away then it might truly become a shit place but I don't think that'll ever happen, those who want to learn will find a way to learn

sorry for venting in your thread OP, I've just been feeling really frustrated with this weird mental game that we all seem to be playing where we delude ourselves into thinking that people here geniunely believe such obvious bullshit.

>>3510793
I don't know who to believe anymore.

>>3511285
>People are doubting "just draw"

Why?

>>3511534
Because "just draw" is vague and useless as fuck. I've been just drawing and I wasted time.

>>3510793
>>3510793
welcome to the club. i’ve had a similar experience

>2016
>sketch maybe a few times a month at most
>complete pieces even less often than that
>complain to self that i’m not improving
>see ic anons telling others to “grind fundies”
>try it but burn out quickly because i’m not used to drawing in high volume
>unable to cope with failure because i’m not used to failing in rapid succession
>quit like a spoiled child because i didn’t get that instant gratification

cont-

>>3511635
>2018
>pick up drawing again but can’t keep it up
>return to /las/ and try to re-adopt their “draw every day” mentality
>at first it’s for a few hours a day, with some slumps where i only draw for 30 minutes in a day
>but i’m still drawing
>grind fundies again. i can do more of them this time before giving up
>try drawing from imagination. it all looks bad
>draw from imagination some more and it’s even worse
>still, i draw every day
>try to emulate my favorite artists
>it’s bad
>go back to “my style”
>still sucks
>notice the failure doesn’t sting as much now
>have days or weeks at a time where i ESPECIALLY do not want to draw
>i draw anyway
>fast forward a couple months
>drawing is more comfortable now & is no longer like pulling teeth to sit down and open photoshop
>artists i look up to notice me more often now
>my art is not fantastic yet, but i feel my confidence growing

“just draw” means so much more than i thought it did

>>3511551
what is wasting time to you

>>3510793
I started drawing from a head and I started actually completing sketches. I realized that I just can't imagine a pose unless I have some sort of expression in place. I would just stare at a blank canvas or some gesture lines.

>>3511551
>Just drawing is a waste of time! I rather shit post on /ic/ instead xD

>>3511551
>I want to get good at drawing! But I've been wasting my time drawing and not reading muh fundie books!
>I want to get good at photography! But I've been wasting my time taking pictures and not reading muh fundie books!
>I want to get good at guitar! But I've been wasting my time playing music and not reading muh fundie books!

>>3511812
"just drawing" only works if youre a highly visual person who can grasp things through observation, and even then it will only take you so far compared to someone who DOES study
even if you take photos that doesn't mean you understand composition or what lenses to use or how to use anything more than a shitty point and shoot
playing guitar doesnt really count if youre not playing real chords lol

>>3511820
>playing guitar doesnt really count if youre not playing real chords lol

>>3511820
>All these excuses

Man, you're really good at sounding pathetic. Could use that energy for drawing, anon.

>>3511636
Nice. Godspeed on your journey, anon. Enjoying the processes is key, you may be ahead of the curve, even those who are better than you with that mindset. Keep at it!

>>3511835
How is anything an excuse? I draw every single day and i'm good at it

>>3510793
>If it doesn't make you happy, then it's not for you

Thought this was just milennial feel-good nonsense

It is, but it also isn't. I realized it was truth when I found something that actually legit made me happy. And when it came down to it, I found myself wanting to do the thing that made me happy, more than art. Wow, strange!

It just made me question why I was doing art in the first place. And a lot of those reasons were wrapped up in ideas of birthright, talent, main character syndrome, greed, etc.

My heart became lighter after I stopped acting like the world owed me fame for my art.

>doesn't post work

Yeah just draw is definitely a meme.

>>3511551
ive noticed some people are unable to improve, no matter how much they just draw, without somebody in person (not just a skype call or whatever) to teach them, only then does what they were reading about 'click'. but it's not very common.

>>3511864
there you go anon

people here seem to have issue with drawing without guidance. anons are afraid to stray from painstakingly referenced studies, lest they draw something bad. something “cringey”. but when you <just draw> , you get out of the habit of putting each piece of art on a pedestal. after all, what’s 10 failed attempts out of 100? 100 out of 1,000? i bet the majority of you haven’t pumped out 100 sketches this year alone.

you have enough tutorials. you don’t need to sit through another goddamned youtube video. your hard drive is full of all the poses you could ever want. now draw, dammit. DRAW.

Imagination drawing is testing your knowledge, which is hugely important for actually retaining it.

Just like if you're taking a test on, say, world history - if you sit down for a test without your textbook and can't answer the questions, you don't know the information, all you know is where to look to find it. It's easy to think you know it all when you have the book next to you, but when someone takes that book away you'd be amazed how little you remember sometimes.

The same goes for art. If you can't draw a thing without reference, you don't know how to draw that thing. The act of trying to remember it helps consolidate your memory of it, if you outsource your memory to references then your brain won't bother to internalize it, it'll just internalize where to find it because it's more efficient. But, like learning any subject, it's still not easy or advisable to invent it out of whole cloth. You need the instruction sometimes, it's helpful and provides you knowledge that people have been accumulating for centuries, but you should test your memory, not depend always on the reference material. Usually the imagination stuff will be worse/less accurate than the referenced stuff, that's okay, imagination drawing is more mentally demanding.

>>3511864
>doesn't post work

Meanwhile

>Someone posts work
>"How did you git gud?"
>Artists replies with "just draw!"
>Said anon then goes into a complain thread
>Whines, saying "why do these artists all give such shitty vague advice. They got good somehow! It isn't fair!! WHY DON'T THEY SHARE THEIR SECRETS?!?!"

You can't win with these people.

>>3512016
Just draw is a shit advice given by morons who can't draw themselves. I am not a professional artist by any means but even I can give a lot of tips as to what helped me get better, no pro artist will tell to just draw and end on that.

>>3512031
Nah just draw is situational advice given by very visual people who can study through observation and get better at art by consuming content.

>>3512031
right on schedule

>>3512031
>Just draw is a shit advice given by morons who can't draw themselves.

>>3512149
BTFO

>>3510931
Are you retarded? That post is great.

How you guys don't seem to understand the purpose of each exercise and instead just think that mindlessly copying drawings about fundamentals you don't care about is what "grinding" is about is blafling to me. Sometimes I think that people on this board have serious learning disabilities.

>>3511820
>playing guitar doesnt really count if youre not playing real chords
it does if you remember/wrote down everything you played then it becomes a composition.

>>3512149
It's for beginners, if you get past that you don't just draw.

>>3511636
Proud of you anon

>>3512298
You're clearly a beginner.

>>3512449
>>3512242
>>3511822
>>3511835

Why you guys have to always take everything to the most autistic extreme?
Just to clarify, just draw is great advice because you can't get enough drawing, and is very apropiate for begginers because they are often the ones that draw the least and always like to pretend like they draw more than they do.
But of course you can't just draw! For fucks sake. There is theory to drawing, and if you don't open up a book you will be triying to invent fire on your own. Why good advice always need to be taken to retarded extremes by idiots on /ic/?

>>3512493
why are you anons always so all-or-nothing

no one’s telling you to ONLY DRAW BLINDLY. we’re on the same side you know-nothing boob

>>3512009
>posts work
>crab doesn't reply anymore
like pottery

>>3512009
>i bet the majority of you haven’t pumped out 100 sketches this year alone.

I don't think I haven't pumped out 100 sketches in my entire life

>>3512009
lassie here

I draw a minimum of 365 drawings a year

>>3512564
based

>>3512517
you don't seriously think that's his art do you

>>3512707
why so?
he's a regular poster in this board

"just draw"

>>3512724
Still better than most of you cunts.

>>3512510
3 of those guys I responded to mocked someone for saying that studying takes you farther than just drawing. The other one called someone a begginer for saying that after a certain point you don't just draw.

So yeah, you are just telling people to just draw blindly. That, or you are all spergs that can't use words properly.

>>3512724
>Super autistic
>Very slow
>Can barely do any humanly functions
>Can barely read, type, and is basically retarded
>Shocked that their drawings are also shit

What's wrong, crab? Running out of excuses? And even with all that said, I still bet this kid doesn't draw enough to actually improve.

>>3512730
>>3512724
I mean if you even just read the caption on the bottom image. She doesnt draw regularly. I'm better she only bothers a few times a year.

Another reason just drawing works is that it makes you bored. If you're drawing a lot you will get good at whatever you're drawing and it becomes easy for you. If you keep drawing the same amount of time however this gets boring and will naturally encourage you to move on to new things.

>>3512724
>Spend most of this year working on my fanfic
>I didn't draw much this year
>Didn't live up to last year's promise

Yeah, I'm sure he drew a lot, anon. This completly proves that practice doesn't help you improve.

>>3512564
proud of you fellow dad

>>3510804
Bu-bu-but R-Richard Williams told me you have to draw like Michelangelo to draw cartoons.

>>3511635
>>3511636
>pre-/las/
>draw every 2-3 months or so
>everytime I draw, it feels like crap
>stop drawing for another 2-3 months
>join /las/ for the heck of it
>still feels like shit, feels like drawing mindlessly
>several days/weeks of drawing, it feels less of a chore anymore
>observe other /dad/dies, I'm now able to plan better what I should study
>grinding no longer feels mindless
>still can't study enough because of only 1.5 hours of free time a day
>adjust overall day routine, try to wake up earlier - go to work - go home early
>slowly have drawing time
>tfw my overall routine and life gets significantly better
thanks /dad/

>>3510931
why?

>>3512724
they prob werent "just drawing"

just draw doesnt mean once a month

>>3512707
>>3512715
its them

>>3511636
>>3512744
I'm so proud of you lads, keep going

>>3512744
i’m proud of you son

>>3512035
You mean almost everyone?

>>3513567
negative. not everyone has "the spark" (the spark being that youre an extremely visual person who can absorb information form/color/light just by just looking at it). obviously being visual comes at varying degrees some people cant think in pictures at all others have a photographic and 3 dimensional mind where they can easily look at something and spin it around without practice/construction.

>>3513574
>the spark

Speaking of actual memes...

>>3513909
the spark is real but its not an ambiguous trait like most people portray it as. like I said its just being very visual and able to git gud by observation/content consumption

>>3513909

If you deny that people have predispositions that make them more or less proficient at certain activities you're being purposely stupid.

/ic/ has this retarded way of rejecting one retarded extreme ("I can't draw because I don't have natural talent!") and adopting the opposite retarded extreme ("natural talent doesn't exist").

>>3513912
>>3513937
Not him but anyone who uses the term spark unironically is a retard. Just say talent like a normal person. And only retards think talent is the end all be all of anything.

One of the least talented teams in the world is about to win the world cup.

>>3514039

>Not him but anyone who uses the term spark unironically is a retard. Just say talent like a normal person.

Nobody cares about your language policing, both you and I know what the word means.

> And only retards think talent is the end all be all of anything.

Agreed, which is why I lamented that /ic/ chooses the opposite equally retarded extreme of talent means absolutely nothing.

Talent isn't everything, but it sure as shit isn't negligible. If you qualify talent as 'natural aptitude' that includes things such as intelligence, perception and dexterity, and if you think those two things don't play an instrumental role in art you're on another fucking planet. If you're dumb as a rock and need to reread a book 3 times when someone else would only need to read it once, you're taking three times as long to develop that skill. That's not even accounting for more subtle things, like a person who might have just have good intuition for colour theory or perspective without needing much instruction, while others might take years to really 'get it'. I bet you virtually anyone whose been doing art for longer than a few months has determined areas they're picking up faster or slower than average.

>>3514083
Talent is a term everyone mostly understands the meaning of.
>muh spark
Is a meme word that exists to be retarded. Using a meme instead of the actual term makes you look like a fucking underage memeing shit.

Talent is negligible because theres enough things that go into what is talent it's not worth caring about. Picking something up faster isnt necessarily talent, it could be experience in tangential fields, a good teacher, etc.
Plus nearly everyone has some talent, it's not an on and off switch where you either have it or you dont. It's a scale like any intelligence rating where you rate somewhere in relation to the average.
Having a high talent certainly helps, but far too many things go into every aspect of art takes more priority than simply talent.

>>3510793
>He doesn't know it's a meme because people parrot it to beginners who have no idea how to learn in the proper way

It's still a meme. It's only not a meme when someone knows what they're doing and even then saying nothing is more helpful than that steaming pile of garbage people call advice that is thrown at people who don't understand so that the person critiquing can feel like they've done something.
When you realized you weren't making progress and didn't know how to draw from imagination you probably would have gotten better anyway. The way you interpreted it is outside the norm for the advice's target group. You somehow translated the 2 words in your head into information already in your mind and confused those two words for the reason for your progress.

>>3512510
But that's what you idiots are telling beginners when you say 'just draw'. Whether you intend it or not. Either inform them on the proper theory or shut the fuck up with useless advice.

>>3512724
This person has legit mental disability

>>3513912
I hope your mom told you that santa clause isn't real.

>>3512149
>>3512149

>He goes on to explain his justification for 'just draw' and tells beginners how to approach it unlike the people who say it here
>Comparing /ic/'s 'just draw to this
No one's talking about the statement backed up with an explanation. We're talking about people who say the phrase itself with no backing, constantly expecting newcomers to know what to do.

'Just draw' is shit advice. Just because someone says before their analysis on how to improve 'you should just draw', doesn't mean it's suddenly relieved of it's uselessness. 'Just draw' isn't the one carrying the weight of why people improve. It's just an empty statement that needs to be accompanied by how and why. For some reason people see the just draw part and assume that's all that's needed and cut out everything useful attached to that meaningless platitude.

It's really sad that a lot of the intermedietes and pros don't know this. Though, being in the animation community for so long I realized that just because you're intermediete doesn't mean you give good advice.
Most use their skill to justify shit advice and for some reason it seems to be praised here which is kind of laughable. Everything here is just face-value shit. I've learned more from animators who were lower level than me than most intermediates. You have to actively seek out that advice and how to give it because a few go off of their observation skills, which some people don't have. You guys need to stop if you're one of these useless posters, but if you're doing what Feng does in this video, carry on.

There's more to it than finding a pro who says the phrase. This video is much different than a 9 word post in reply to 'is there an efficient way to learn to draw?' Which, I admit is a hard thing to answer, but there are so many answers to this question. Doesn't matter if you think otherwise. Whether it's 'analyze a photo instead of copying' or 'take notes', This advice helps begs understand otherwise complicated processes.

>>3511052
>It's really frustrating trying to get people to visit /ic/ and respect it when they think it's bullshit shitposting
Maybe if /ic/ wasnt mostly shitposting and redlines done by people who clearly cant draw this wouldnt happen. Stop acting like this board is a fucking victim of anything but it's own ineptitude, and stop acting like /ic/ is some flawless bastion of art education.

>>3514964
Seek help, anon.

>>3515875
What'd I do?

>>3515875
Do people think this vague statement is an argument? It doesn't address anything I say, and it's not telling me why I should seek help so it's completely fucking useless. Why even press enter? Did you reply to the wrong person?

>>3510807
very

>>3515886
The entire post screams that you need help.

>>3516185
Or you just can't come up with a good reply so you resort to concern trolling because it makes you feel like you accomplished something without having to actually admit you have nothing to say. Just stop with this childish shit.

>>3516185
Also I joined the conversation with that post, so drop any preconcieved opinions because I'm not that guy. There's nothing in my post that screams anything. You're not fooling anybody.

How do you do this? What do you mean "just draw"?
What do you draw?

>>3516297
Look up the video anon posted >>3512149 here
The problem with "just draw" is that it can be interpreted badly by a beginner who might think to simply draw whatever with no focus or aim.
In the video he explains to just draw as in "don't waste time with excuses about this or that crap. Pick up some cheap paper, a pencil, look up reference of stuff and just draw a bunch of those a day" basically.
It's literally just the good old copy reference > internalize the thing you studied > draw it from imagination
Repeat until you are confident of your knowledge of said thing

just draw what you like most.
i tried countless of times to do commission and earn money from that but in the end i always get bored and been stuck.
draw what you like friend